I read some place that weight is pre-determined just like eye colour, height, there is very little you can do if you're body thinks you need to be 200lbs it will do it best to keep you there, i.e if you're 250lbs you can probably drop to 200lbs but it will me much harder to lose more but easier to gain when you're below 200lbs.
That is largely true, though it is more elastic than fixed stats like eye color and height. It is more of a pre-determination toward an equilibrium range of weight, an area below and above which starts to see greatly diminished returns. Probably comes from the mixing of DNA that was specifically tuned for a particular geographies. For example, taking an ancestor from a higher latitude, where the individuals have a higher base body fat coupled with a high metabolism, so they can generate higher internal heat without eating away at their reserves too quickly, and crossing that with others from lower latitudes, where both of those same attributes are slowed down. Start crossing enough of those individuals together, and you'll eventually end up with the low metabolism/higher body fat combination.
Everybody has one of these equilibrium weight ranges, it's just one of those scientific realities that medicine, insurance, and bigots can't/won/t accept.
Everybody has one of these equilibrium weight ranges, it's just one of those scientific realities that medicine, insurance, and bigots can't/won/t accept.
I agree with what you are saying about weight ranges, but it seems to me that it is you that can't accept that as a society we are out of equilibrium; many of us who are overweight are needlessly and dangerously so.
You talk about hate a lot, but the OP wrote out of grief for someone he really cared about... you cannot equate people who disagree with you with people who hate you.
Everybody has one of these equilibrium weight ranges, it's just one of those scientific realities that medicine, insurance, and bigots can't/won/t accept.
I agree with what you are saying about weight ranges, but it seems to me that it is you that can't accept that as a society we are out of equilibrium; many of us who are overweight are needlessly and dangerously so.
You talk about hate a lot, but the OP wrote out of grief for someone he really cared about... you cannot equate people who disagree with you with people who hate you.
The OP didn't introduce the thread claiming he/she was better than anyone because they were overweight, they just came along saying this happened to someone I cared about, I don't want to see it happen to someone you might care about. The conversion you are speaking of was the work of some other military grade assholes in the thread. Short and sweet: information offered up out of concern is one thing, but claiming that X person/people are beneath you because of Y, technically equates to systematic hatred of X in the name of Y.
One is generally accepted with a nod and a smile, and possibly given thought, while the other is met with spite and rebellion, out of the desire to see their kind flounder around like an angry christian. You figure out which is which.
Edit: granted society does have a problem in this regard, but at the same time it isn't going to magically go away simply by getting people off these corn-based processed foods. Many people in this country simply cannot become that aryan image of perfection through non-surgical or non-medicinal means. Would these people be subjected to 20 hours a day on a treadmill solely for the sake of public services, whose salaries that they, as tax paying citizens, pay for?
But ambulance chiefs have warned that the movement of overweight patients is becoming increasingly problematic for paramedics who can sometimes risk their own safety.
No amount of references is going to justify for your hatred for another group of humans.
Remember when you typed "Are any of those hypothetical situations..." referring to a post I made where I listed the reasons why being fat isn't healthy for the fat person or the people around the fat person? ..." in reference to a post I made showing that fat peo
Did I make a falsehood? Have I made any false statements or presented any false facts in this thread?
Do I want fat people to exist? I'd like to see them be less fat for their sake and the people around them.
Why? Because, as illustrated, being fat is not healthy for them or people around them. It's not a healthy condition for a human being to be in.
Do I hate fat people? Can you really hate something that you wish a better life on? I hate fat people so much I want them to avoid heart attacks, strokes, etc, etc, etc... I want them to decide for themselves to stop shortening their lives on something completely preventable - I detest them soooo much that I want them to increase their quality of life. Oh noes! I'm a monster! I don't hate the fat people I hate the fat that's killing them.
It has less to do with personal ego and more to do with group preparedness.
Fat people have physical limitations that fit people don't have - those limitations will prevent you from being useful if you are ever required to ______ so you should be pressured to stay relatively fit. It is in a ________ best interest to pick on people for being fat. To say more would be getting close to being against the rules here a MMORPG.COM
So driving fat kids to suicide by mentally abusing them is good for the group? OK then.
--When you resubscribe to SWG, an 18 yearold Stripper finds Jesus, gives up stripping, and moves with a rolex reverend to Hawaii. --In MMORPG's l007 is the opiate of the masses. --The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence! --CCP could cut off an Eve player's fun bits, and that player would say that it was good CCP did that.
It has less to do with personal ego and more to do with group preparedness.
Fat people have physical limitations that fit people don't have - those limitations will prevent you from being useful if you are ever required to ______ so you should be pressured to stay relatively fit. It is in a ________ best interest to pick on people for being fat. To say more would be getting close to being against the rules here a MMORPG.COM
So driving fat kids to suicide by mentally abusing them is good for the group? OK then.
Children aren't asked to _________ , but I will point out that if the parents are somewhat fit then their children will be somewhat fit too. Fat adults produce fat children.
So driving fat kids to suicide by mentally abusing them is good for the group? OK then.
Children aren't asked to _________ , but I will point out that if the parents are somewhat fit then their children will be somewhat fit too. Fat adults produce fat children.
Hold up here, you are blaming someone else for you abusing people. Great personal responsibility you got there. Yes, you definately are not a hypocrite.
So if a child is driven to depression in his formative years because of the abuse that he receives by his peers because of his size, it's that child's fault? OK then, blame the victim, yeah instead of encouraging that child, lets demean them cause them to be depressed, then suicidal, and then when a Columbine happens, "No it's not jimmy the stroke abuser who got a 12 gauge to the head's fault!!!! It's that fat pig's parents!!!!!"
Hey buddy, leave the cognitive behavioral therapy to the experts. It sounds like you are just a fireman up in Canada, which means you are not qualified to do behavioral therapy. How about this, you shut up about what the hell you don't understand and leave people alone?
Oh and I am trained in Cognitive Behavoiral Therapy, incase you are wondering.
--When you resubscribe to SWG, an 18 yearold Stripper finds Jesus, gives up stripping, and moves with a rolex reverend to Hawaii. --In MMORPG's l007 is the opiate of the masses. --The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence! --CCP could cut off an Eve player's fun bits, and that player would say that it was good CCP did that.
So driving fat kids to suicide by mentally abusing them is good for the group? OK then.
Children aren't asked to _________ , but I will point out that if the parents are somewhat fit then their children will be somewhat fit too. Fat adults produce fat children.
Hold up here, you are blaming someone else for you abusing people. Great personal responsibility you got there. Yes, you definately are not a hypocrite.
So if a child is driven to depression in his formative years because of the abuse that he receives by his peers because of his size, it's that child's fault? OK then, blame the victim, yeah instead of encouraging that child, lets demean them cause them to be depressed, then suicidal, and then when a Columbine happens, "No it's not jimmy the stroke abuser who got a 12 gauge to the head's fault!!!! It's that fat pig's parents!!!!!"
Hey buddy, leave the cognitive behavioral therapy to the experts. It sounds like you are just a fireman up in Canada, which means you are not qualified to do behavioral therapy. How about this, you shut up about what the hell you don't understand and leave people alone?
Oh and I am trained in Cognitive Behavoiral Therapy, incase you are wondering.
What I am saying is fat adults should be pressured to be somewhat fit for the reasons I've already given.
You brought children into this for some reason so I pointed out that if their parents were somewhat fit it's unlikely that the children will be fat. Fat kids will not exist if their parents remain somewhat fit.
Encouraging the child to do what exactly? be fat? You think it's good for kids to be fat so they should be "encouraged" to eat a poor diet and get little exercise? Oh wait, you mean that children should be "encouraged" to be somewhat fit...!!?!? Won't that, as you pointed out, lead to more suicide and depression? THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!! WHY? WHY WON"T YOU THINK OF THE CHILDREN?!?!?!?!?!!???
What I am saying is fat adults should be pressured to be somewhat fit for the reasons I've already given.
You brought children into this for some reason so I pointed out that if their parents were somewhat fit it's unlikely that the children will be fat. Fat kids will not exist if their parents remain somewhat fit.
Encouraging the child to do what exactly? be fat? You think it's good for kids to be fat so they should be "encouraged" to eat a poor diet and get little exercise? Oh wait, you mean that children should be "encouraged" to be somewhat fit...!!?!? Won't that, as you pointed out, lead to more suicide and depression? THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!! WHY? WHY WON"T YOU THINK OF THE CHILDREN?!?!?!?!?!!???
No, what you are saying is that someone who was mentally abused all their life (like fat people are usually) should continue to be mentally abused to change them. Fireman, you know very little about therapy and actually changing someone. Encouraging people with support and help usually works more than mentally abusing them.
I mean I am sure your girl/boy friend really appretiates the mental abuse you give them. I am sure your abusive relationships with people really helps them out and makes them better. No, you are not just some abusive scumbag, you are just helping people out, you're a good guy fella! Good job boy! Here's a pat on the back!
"Won't that, as you pointed out, lead to more suicide and depression? "
No, being fat don't led to depression, being mentally abused for being fat does however. I know you never went to college and can't figure this out or read well, it's not your fault fella! I am sure you are just some poor Canadian kid who never had a chance for this, ha! Could not afford that 5 grand a year, right? Or were you not the best of students scholastically? Either way, it's not your fault, I'm sure you tried...
--When you resubscribe to SWG, an 18 yearold Stripper finds Jesus, gives up stripping, and moves with a rolex reverend to Hawaii. --In MMORPG's l007 is the opiate of the masses. --The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence! --CCP could cut off an Eve player's fun bits, and that player would say that it was good CCP did that.
What I am saying is fat adults should be pressured to be somewhat fit for the reasons I've already given.
You brought children into this for some reason so I pointed out that if their parents were somewhat fit it's unlikely that the children will be fat. Fat kids will not exist if their parents remain somewhat fit.
Encouraging the child to do what exactly? be fat? You think it's good for kids to be fat so they should be "encouraged" to eat a poor diet and get little exercise? Oh wait, you mean that children should be "encouraged" to be somewhat fit...!!?!? Won't that, as you pointed out, lead to more suicide and depression? THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!! WHY? WHY WON"T YOU THINK OF THE CHILDREN?!?!?!?!?!!???
No, what you are saying is that someone who was mentally abused all their life (like fat people are usually) should continue to be mentally abused to change them. Fireman, you know very little about therapy and actually changing someone. Encouraging people with support and help usually works more than mentally abusing them.
I mean I am sure your girl/boy friend really appretiates the mental abuse you give them. I am sure your abusive relationships with people really helps them out and makes them better. No, you are not just some abusive scumbag, you are just helping people out, you're a good guy fella! Good job boy! Here's a pat on the back!
"Won't that, as you pointed out, lead to more suicide and depression? "
No, being fat don't led to depression, being mentally abused for being fat does however. I know you never went to college and can't figure this out or read well, it's not your fault fella! I am sure you are just some poor Canadian kid who never had a chance for this, ha! Could not afford that 5 grand a year, right? Or were you not the best of students scholastically? Either way, it's not your fault, I'm sure you tried...
Encouraging somebody to lose weight is the exact same as pressuring them to lose weight.
When you encourage a person to change their lifestyle you are declaring that you know that there is something wrong with their lifestyle. You are saying with your "encouragement" that they are flawed and wrong for being fat and that they are not supposed to be fat.
Being fat is not acceptable to you and you're "encouraging" them to change and your "encouragement" is applying pressure on them. You are pressuring them to alter their lifestyle, because in your view, there is something wrong with it. Your "encouragement" applies pressure on fat people to be less fat.
Where did I suggest that the pressure applied should exclusively be in the form of verbal or mental abuse?
Not only are you pressuring fat adults but you suggest that the same pressure should be applied to children aswell which is odd because most children don't have control over the family diet; yet there you are, "encouraging" them to do something about their fat without recognizing that there is very little they can realistically do about it. You tell children that their fat is wrong and encourage them to alter themselves which sets them up for an automatic failure (bet that makes them feel great about themselves!), as I pointed out, they have no control over the family shopping, but it's okay because you are there to help them by encouraging them to automatically fail, but that's okay too because then you can keep "helping them" well into adulthood - cha-ching!
Encouraging somebody to lose weight is the exact same as pressuring them to lose weight.
(A Bunch of Fireman BS)
So apparently you lack ENGLISH COMPREHENSION. So you are a Fireman Canadian Immigrant or Quebecois. Tormenting someone and humiliating someone is NOT encouraging someone. Ecouragement is POSTIVE, humiliation and torment is NEGATIVE. You see the difference there?
What YOU are talking about is actually PUNISHMENT or TORTURE to be exact, Torture is not encouraging it is rather an action that is trying to make someone SUBMIT to your will, example "Hey fatty you better get skinny or I am going to keep torturing you!" Encouragement is " you can do this, I'll be there to support you if you need me to."
By the way, as a guy who went from 375 to 220 at the age of 30 (now I am 32), I can definately say I understand the issue better than you fireman. Little pieces of shit like you nearly got stabbed to death by me on the high school school bus (the dean caught me with my bouy knife before I could slit one of my bully's throats. Thankfully it was before Columbine.).
Know what got me to lose the weight? I beat alcoholism caused from the years of abuse from shits like you and after beating that, I realized I can do whatever I want in life because I beat alcoholism and depression, something many people off themselves over. I realized I am both mentally and physically strong.
--When you resubscribe to SWG, an 18 yearold Stripper finds Jesus, gives up stripping, and moves with a rolex reverend to Hawaii. --In MMORPG's l007 is the opiate of the masses. --The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence! --CCP could cut off an Eve player's fun bits, and that player would say that it was good CCP did that.
Encouraging somebody to lose weight is the exact same as pressuring them to lose weight.
(A Bunch of Fireman BS)
So apparently you lack ENGLISH COMPREHENSION. So you are a Fireman Canadian Immigrant or Quebecois. Tormenting someone and humiliating someone is NOT encouraging someone. Ecouragement is POSTIVE, humiliation and torment is NEGATIVE. You see the difference there?
What YOU are talking about is actually PUNISHMENT or TORTURE to be exact, Torture is not encouraging it is rather an action that is trying to make someone SUBMIT to your will, example "Hey fatty you better get skinny or I am going to keep torturing you!" Encouragement is " you can do this, I'll be there to support you if you need me to."
By the way, as a guy who went from 375 to 220 at the age of 30 (now I am 32), I can definately say I understand the issue better than you fireman. Little pieces of shit like you nearly got stabbed to death by me on the high school school bus (the dean caught me with my bouy knife before I could slit one of my bully's throats. Thankfully it was before Columbine.).
Know what got me to lose the weight? I beat alcoholism caused from the years of abuse from shits like you and after beating that, I realized I can do whatever I want in life because I beat alcoholism and depression, something many people off themselves over. I realized I am both mentally and physically strong.
I can read perfectly well and I know exactly what I've typed. I know exactly what I'm talking about with the words that I choose and I don't appreciate you forcing any of your imaginary ideas about "what I'm talking about" down my throat.
Your victim is made to understand that being fat is abnormal human condition - perhaps he didn't see fat people in fashion mags, or there's not enough positive fat role models on tv, or the happy adverts of once fat people talking about their weight loss gave him the blues, or he read a health related article on being fat, etc. ect. ect. (all forms of pressure without name calling or torture) and they come to you for help and you encourage them to lose weight...
You positive "encouragement" validates the negative feelings they have about themselves... If you said there was nothing wrong with being fat (as was the arguement of the first person I was discussing this with) then you might have a point (not a good point but still a point), but that isn't the case is it?
There is something wrong with being fat and it's not by making fat people a valid racial demographic (as was the arguement of the first person I was discussing this with) that is going to send them to seek help or "encourage" them to change themselves for the better.
There's a lot of irony in this thread - I've been called all sorts of things such as abusive, a nazi, a fireman(wtf, dude srsly?), hateful, etc etc etc, by both you and the first person I was originally discussing this with, yet the both of you are the only ones that exhibited all of those traits within this thread. One would think that if I had any inclination towards hate or name calling I'd of exhibited it by now... One would also think that you would view name calling and insults as despicable, but that's not the case, you've made name calling and abuse a negative trait for a person to have and then expressed both of them towards me... , yet, I've not shown on One would think that if I had any inclination towards nothing , but that's not the case
To sum up my points: Fat people are not a racial demographic. Being fat is a lifestyle choice and not equal to being white, or black, first nations, or jewish... Being fat is not healthy human condition. Fat kids should be left alone. Pressure to be somewhat fit should be applied to adults only. Encouraging a person to be less fat validates the initial pressure applied to the fat person in whatever form it may of been in (not only abuse or name calling) which turns your "encouragement" into additional pressure.
Hazelle, why have you dug so deep into social or psychological means to consider encouragement, pressure? To you, is there not a positive difference between encouragement and pressure? Encouragement is, in not exact terms, the positive synonym to pressure making them completely different.
Therefore, it's your denotation of the word encouragement, not definition, that it is flawed; therefore, your argument on the idea of encouragement being pressure, is lost. Because what you are arguing is opinion, shaped by external influence, not fact.
Lets say this: Encouragement is the healthiest form of pressure and should be the only form used to inform another their lifestyle is flawed. Due to the the rules of which we live by, said overweight person has the right to consider, then accept or refuse the encouragement.
Also, Juggalo, your refutes against Hazelle's notion is held in contempt.. You're pulling at strings in this discussion, which my brain goes numb from.
To bring this on topic and back to facts: Being overweight is unhealthy, and yes, you should review that of which you feed yourself. Should you choose not to, you may either bring doom upon yourself, or strike out lucky and face no consequence.
KillerTwinkie - That one guy who used to mod mmorpg.com's forums.
Pressure is really the only word that adequately encompasses all methods used to get overweight people to change their lifestyle. I agree that it can carry negative connotations with it, but when applied in an instance where a person's lifestyle is detrimental to their health or safety or another persons, it tends to shed the negative and become a positive compelling influence.
I agree that encouragement is the healthiest form of pressure and will go further to say that verbal and physical abuse are the least. There are other forms, like the ones I mentioned above, that don't fit into encouragement or abuse (cautionary tales for a further example) that can influence an overweight person to lose weight so I'm not inclined to agree that encouragement should be the only method applied.
Just let them die if they're not gonna do anything about it. Sorry but people who get fat and then moan about it are pathetic and I have no Sympathy. Most just try and mass it off as a medical condition while they're eating 10 pizzas a day lol. I see one fat woman take her dog for a walk on one of them 3 wheel scooter things lol. Like there is nothing wrong with your legs, I've seen you walking so fucking get off your fat arse and walk your dog with your legs and lose some weight. It pisses me off seeing that sad pathetic lump of shit go by everyday, even the kids taking the piss out of how fat she all the time doesn't get her to lose weight... just no self respect.
Know what the Irony here is, I am using the same negative reinforcement you want to be used against fat people against you and you feel it is unfair. That is the irony, you are a blind and stupid hypocrite. So just like my abuse has not changed your outlook in a positive way, except making you feel like the Nazi you are, your abuse changes crap.
I don't care about demographics, this, that, or the other. I care about the impact mental abuse has on all bullied people, fat or other wise. Bullying is not a tactic that creates a healthy individual. Saying fat people desereve to be stigmatized reinforces the behavoir of bullies by making it socially acceptable. As someone who has been bullied when I was a kid, I don't stand for bullies now (many former bosses can attest to this)
You feel I have treated you unfairly, TOUGH, all my life I was treated unfairly because of the way I looked. At least I am judging you on the content of your beliefs.
Originally posted by killerTwinkie
Also, Juggalo, your refutes against Hazelle's notion is held in contempt.. You're pulling at strings in this discussion, which my brain goes numb from.
To me it is not a discussion, to me and all former or current fat people this is a war. I don't care if I change anyone's mind or your mental state, like no one cared about my mental state for 30 years of my life (always was fat). If you want a rational debate between the abuser and abused, then your brain truly is numb.
Originally posted by tixylix
Just let them die if they're not gonna do anything about it. Sorry but people who get fat and then moan about it are pathetic and I have no Sympathy. Most just try and mass it off as a medical condition while they're eating 10 pizzas a day lol. I see one fat woman take her dog for a walk on one of them 3 wheel scooter things lol. Like there is nothing wrong with your legs, I've seen you walking so fucking get off your fat arse and walk your dog with your legs and lose some weight. It pisses me off seeing that sad pathetic lump of shit go by everyday, even the kids taking the piss out of how fat she all the time doesn't get her to lose weight... just no self respect.
Hate fat people like that, makes me sick.
See, ah that great form of encouragement through stigmatization! This is it in action, don't be naive and act like stimatization can be nice.
It's people like this that make me wish my dean never caught me with that knife.
--When you resubscribe to SWG, an 18 yearold Stripper finds Jesus, gives up stripping, and moves with a rolex reverend to Hawaii. --In MMORPG's l007 is the opiate of the masses. --The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence! --CCP could cut off an Eve player's fun bits, and that player would say that it was good CCP did that.
And if a fat kid is bullied then at least he is getting some exercise from all the running away of beatings.
Beatings? Ha, if it were pysical my 300+ lbs @ss would have just choked them to death. No, it's mental, much more harsh than the little bitty scraps that you got beat up in as little trash.
--When you resubscribe to SWG, an 18 yearold Stripper finds Jesus, gives up stripping, and moves with a rolex reverend to Hawaii. --In MMORPG's l007 is the opiate of the masses. --The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence! --CCP could cut off an Eve player's fun bits, and that player would say that it was good CCP did that.
And if a fat kid is bullied then at least he is getting some exercise from all the running away of beatings.
Beatings? Ha, if it were pysical my 300+ lbs @ss would have just choked them to death. No, it's mental, much more harsh than the little bitty scraps that you got beat up in as trash.
Going to America a few times really made me realise why there are so many fat people. There isn't that Stigma behind it there anymore like there is here in Europe and when 50% of the people I saw weren't just fat but Obese, it really makes it seem normal to kids so they become fat too.
Also when I went to a Restaurant the starters were the size of a Main meal here and the main was like a pile of food on a plate. It got to the point where I skipped the started, just ordered a main and still only ate half of it. There is no reason why any Human should be eating that much food and I always saw people walking home with it in bags to finish later. Frigging surely less Restaurants would shut down if they served smaller portions so people didn't have so much they had to finish it at home.
The funniest thing was at this one place I ordered some cake and I was expecting a slice like you'd get here. Instead I got the WHOLE cake and it's like............. "can I take that to go?" lol.
That said I love going to America and meet such friendly people, I just wish they would eat less. Do that and maybe we'll get better Dental Care in Europe lol.
SNIPPED (Oh a guy who throws bananas at African soccer players!)
Oh you superior Europeans! Ah ha ha ha! Yeah, proof there are shitheads in every country. Oh and please visit Chicago, I'll take you to where I am from on the West Side and dissappear you like some German tourists in Miami.
By the way, fix your profile, it says you are from Tennessee.
--When you resubscribe to SWG, an 18 yearold Stripper finds Jesus, gives up stripping, and moves with a rolex reverend to Hawaii. --In MMORPG's l007 is the opiate of the masses. --The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence! --CCP could cut off an Eve player's fun bits, and that player would say that it was good CCP did that.
Know what the Irony here is, I am using the same negative reinforcement you want to be used against fat people against you and you feel it is unfair. That is the irony, you are a blind and stupid hypocrite. So just like my abuse has not changed your outlook in a positive way, except making you feel like the Nazi you are, your abuse changes crap.
I don't care about demographics, this, that, or the other. I care about the impact mental abuse has on all bullied people, fat or other wise. Bullying is not a tactic that creates a healthy individual. Saying fat people desereve to be stigmatized reinforces the behavoir of bullies by making it socially acceptable. As someone who has been bullied when I was a kid, I don't stand for bullies now (many former bosses can attest to this)
You feel I have treated you unfairly, TOUGH, all my life I was treated unfairly because of the way I looked. At least I am judging you on the content of your beliefs.
Where did I say anything about anything being unfair? You seems to believe that I'm abusive and violent but I've not shown any violence or abuse towards somebody that has been abusive towards me. Where are you getting that I'm abusive or violent? Where? You are judging me based on the content of your own imagination in regards to me and not anything rooted in reality. .
I really wish you would read what I've typed instead of inventing things and then raging about those imaginary inventions...
Juggalo... I understand you have history with this, and i'm sure many on the forums do. Just look at the views of this discussion and you can see it is followed heavily, as many people are on both sides of the fence.
Considering your history with this subject I can honestly say that your attempts to say the discussion is ill, is shaped by your personal history. The idea of this discussion, as stated by the OP, is to help others.
Not every person wants to see another hurt, Juggalo. Please do not spread such hate here, either. Yes, some people may go to extremes and they're at fault. This does mean every person with the heart to help is at fault.
KillerTwinkie - That one guy who used to mod mmorpg.com's forums.
Know what the Irony here is, I am using the same negative reinforcement you want to be used against fat people against you and you feel it is unfair. That is the irony, you are a blind and stupid hypocrite. So just like my abuse has not changed your outlook in a positive way, except making you feel like the Nazi you are, your abuse changes crap.
I don't care about demographics, this, that, or the other. I care about the impact mental abuse has on all bullied people, fat or other wise. Bullying is not a tactic that creates a healthy individual. Saying fat people desereve to be stigmatized reinforces the behavoir of bullies by making it socially acceptable. As someone who has been bullied when I was a kid, I don't stand for bullies now (many former bosses can attest to this)
You feel I have treated you unfairly, TOUGH, all my life I was treated unfairly because of the way I looked. At least I am judging you on the content of your beliefs.
Where did I say anything about anything being unfair? You seems to believe that I'm abusive and violent but I've not shown any violence or abuse towards somebody that has been abusive towards me. Where are you getting that I'm abusive or violent? Where? You are judging me based on the content of your own imagination in regards to me and not anything rooted in reality. .
I really wish you would read what I've typed instead of inventing things and then raging about those imaginary inventions...
Props to you. Excellent, intelligent response. Despite what I said abot being naive, (er, regardless of that comment) you are rational in thought and logically mature. Thank you!!!!! Seriously ,thank you, lol.
Soooooooooooo many people on this website fail reading comprehension 101.
Literally, you can have a thread saying "I just had a baby, I'm a dad! Yay!" and people will LITERALLY read it and *somehow* translate it into "I eat babbies, bwahahahaha!" and then write a 5 page thesis critiquing how it is wrong to eat babbies. (I intentionally mispelt babies as babbies, refering to an internet meme "How is babby formed?" which is IMO one of the funniest things in the universe, roflmao.
Really though, the majority of this forum dont even read or comprehend what they read. Thy are literally as rational in argument as the person who answered "How is babby formed?"
Comments
That is largely true, though it is more elastic than fixed stats like eye color and height. It is more of a pre-determination toward an equilibrium range of weight, an area below and above which starts to see greatly diminished returns. Probably comes from the mixing of DNA that was specifically tuned for a particular geographies. For example, taking an ancestor from a higher latitude, where the individuals have a higher base body fat coupled with a high metabolism, so they can generate higher internal heat without eating away at their reserves too quickly, and crossing that with others from lower latitudes, where both of those same attributes are slowed down. Start crossing enough of those individuals together, and you'll eventually end up with the low metabolism/higher body fat combination.
Everybody has one of these equilibrium weight ranges, it's just one of those scientific realities that medicine, insurance, and bigots can't/won/t accept.
I agree with what you are saying about weight ranges, but it seems to me that it is you that can't accept that as a society we are out of equilibrium; many of us who are overweight are needlessly and dangerously so.
You talk about hate a lot, but the OP wrote out of grief for someone he really cared about... you cannot equate people who disagree with you with people who hate you.
The OP didn't introduce the thread claiming he/she was better than anyone because they were overweight, they just came along saying this happened to someone I cared about, I don't want to see it happen to someone you might care about. The conversion you are speaking of was the work of some other military grade assholes in the thread. Short and sweet: information offered up out of concern is one thing, but claiming that X person/people are beneath you because of Y, technically equates to systematic hatred of X in the name of Y.
One is generally accepted with a nod and a smile, and possibly given thought, while the other is met with spite and rebellion, out of the desire to see their kind flounder around like an angry christian. You figure out which is which.
Edit: granted society does have a problem in this regard, but at the same time it isn't going to magically go away simply by getting people off these corn-based processed foods. Many people in this country simply cannot become that aryan image of perfection through non-surgical or non-medicinal means. Would these people be subjected to 20 hours a day on a treadmill solely for the sake of public services, whose salaries that they, as tax paying citizens, pay for?
Remember when you typed "Are any of those hypothetical situations..." referring to a post I made where I listed the reasons why being fat isn't healthy for the fat person or the people around the fat person? ..." in reference to a post I made showing that fat peo
Did I make a falsehood? Have I made any false statements or presented any false facts in this thread?
Do I want fat people to exist? I'd like to see them be less fat for their sake and the people around them.
Why? Because, as illustrated, being fat is not healthy for them or people around them. It's not a healthy condition for a human being to be in.
Do I hate fat people? Can you really hate something that you wish a better life on? I hate fat people so much I want them to avoid heart attacks, strokes, etc, etc, etc... I want them to decide for themselves to stop shortening their lives on something completely preventable - I detest them soooo much that I want them to increase their quality of life. Oh noes! I'm a monster! I don't hate the fat people I hate the fat that's killing them.
So driving fat kids to suicide by mentally abusing them is good for the group? OK then.
--When you resubscribe to SWG, an 18 yearold Stripper finds Jesus, gives up stripping, and moves with a rolex reverend to Hawaii.
--In MMORPG's l007 is the opiate of the masses.
--The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence!
--CCP could cut off an Eve player's fun bits, and that player would say that it was good CCP did that.
Children aren't asked to _________ , but I will point out that if the parents are somewhat fit then their children will be somewhat fit too. Fat adults produce fat children.
Hold up here, you are blaming someone else for you abusing people. Great personal responsibility you got there. Yes, you definately are not a hypocrite.
So if a child is driven to depression in his formative years because of the abuse that he receives by his peers because of his size, it's that child's fault? OK then, blame the victim, yeah instead of encouraging that child, lets demean them cause them to be depressed, then suicidal, and then when a Columbine happens, "No it's not jimmy the stroke abuser who got a 12 gauge to the head's fault!!!! It's that fat pig's parents!!!!!"
Hey buddy, leave the cognitive behavioral therapy to the experts. It sounds like you are just a fireman up in Canada, which means you are not qualified to do behavioral therapy. How about this, you shut up about what the hell you don't understand and leave people alone?
Oh and I am trained in Cognitive Behavoiral Therapy, incase you are wondering.
--When you resubscribe to SWG, an 18 yearold Stripper finds Jesus, gives up stripping, and moves with a rolex reverend to Hawaii.
--In MMORPG's l007 is the opiate of the masses.
--The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence!
--CCP could cut off an Eve player's fun bits, and that player would say that it was good CCP did that.
What I am saying is fat adults should be pressured to be somewhat fit for the reasons I've already given.
You brought children into this for some reason so I pointed out that if their parents were somewhat fit it's unlikely that the children will be fat. Fat kids will not exist if their parents remain somewhat fit.
Encouraging the child to do what exactly? be fat? You think it's good for kids to be fat so they should be "encouraged" to eat a poor diet and get little exercise? Oh wait, you mean that children should be "encouraged" to be somewhat fit...!!?!? Won't that, as you pointed out, lead to more suicide and depression? THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!! WHY? WHY WON"T YOU THINK OF THE CHILDREN?!?!?!?!?!!???
No, what you are saying is that someone who was mentally abused all their life (like fat people are usually) should continue to be mentally abused to change them. Fireman, you know very little about therapy and actually changing someone. Encouraging people with support and help usually works more than mentally abusing them.
I mean I am sure your girl/boy friend really appretiates the mental abuse you give them. I am sure your abusive relationships with people really helps them out and makes them better. No, you are not just some abusive scumbag, you are just helping people out, you're a good guy fella! Good job boy! Here's a pat on the back!
"Won't that, as you pointed out, lead to more suicide and depression? "
No, being fat don't led to depression, being mentally abused for being fat does however. I know you never went to college and can't figure this out or read well, it's not your fault fella! I am sure you are just some poor Canadian kid who never had a chance for this, ha! Could not afford that 5 grand a year, right? Or were you not the best of students scholastically? Either way, it's not your fault, I'm sure you tried...
--When you resubscribe to SWG, an 18 yearold Stripper finds Jesus, gives up stripping, and moves with a rolex reverend to Hawaii.
--In MMORPG's l007 is the opiate of the masses.
--The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence!
--CCP could cut off an Eve player's fun bits, and that player would say that it was good CCP did that.
Encouraging somebody to lose weight is the exact same as pressuring them to lose weight.
When you encourage a person to change their lifestyle you are declaring that you know that there is something wrong with their lifestyle. You are saying with your "encouragement" that they are flawed and wrong for being fat and that they are not supposed to be fat.
Being fat is not acceptable to you and you're "encouraging" them to change and your "encouragement" is applying pressure on them. You are pressuring them to alter their lifestyle, because in your view, there is something wrong with it. Your "encouragement" applies pressure on fat people to be less fat.
Where did I suggest that the pressure applied should exclusively be in the form of verbal or mental abuse?
Not only are you pressuring fat adults but you suggest that the same pressure should be applied to children aswell which is odd because most children don't have control over the family diet; yet there you are, "encouraging" them to do something about their fat without recognizing that there is very little they can realistically do about it. You tell children that their fat is wrong and encourage them to alter themselves which sets them up for an automatic failure (bet that makes them feel great about themselves!), as I pointed out, they have no control over the family shopping, but it's okay because you are there to help them by encouraging them to automatically fail, but that's okay too because then you can keep "helping them" well into adulthood - cha-ching!
So apparently you lack ENGLISH COMPREHENSION. So you are a Fireman Canadian Immigrant or Quebecois. Tormenting someone and humiliating someone is NOT encouraging someone. Ecouragement is POSTIVE, humiliation and torment is NEGATIVE. You see the difference there?
What YOU are talking about is actually PUNISHMENT or TORTURE to be exact, Torture is not encouraging it is rather an action that is trying to make someone SUBMIT to your will, example "Hey fatty you better get skinny or I am going to keep torturing you!" Encouragement is " you can do this, I'll be there to support you if you need me to."
By the way, as a guy who went from 375 to 220 at the age of 30 (now I am 32), I can definately say I understand the issue better than you fireman. Little pieces of shit like you nearly got stabbed to death by me on the high school school bus (the dean caught me with my bouy knife before I could slit one of my bully's throats. Thankfully it was before Columbine.).
Know what got me to lose the weight? I beat alcoholism caused from the years of abuse from shits like you and after beating that, I realized I can do whatever I want in life because I beat alcoholism and depression, something many people off themselves over. I realized I am both mentally and physically strong.
--When you resubscribe to SWG, an 18 yearold Stripper finds Jesus, gives up stripping, and moves with a rolex reverend to Hawaii.
--In MMORPG's l007 is the opiate of the masses.
--The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence!
--CCP could cut off an Eve player's fun bits, and that player would say that it was good CCP did that.
I can read perfectly well and I know exactly what I've typed. I know exactly what I'm talking about with the words that I choose and I don't appreciate you forcing any of your imaginary ideas about "what I'm talking about" down my throat.
Your victim is made to understand that being fat is abnormal human condition - perhaps he didn't see fat people in fashion mags, or there's not enough positive fat role models on tv, or the happy adverts of once fat people talking about their weight loss gave him the blues, or he read a health related article on being fat, etc. ect. ect. (all forms of pressure without name calling or torture) and they come to you for help and you encourage them to lose weight...
You positive "encouragement" validates the negative feelings they have about themselves... If you said there was nothing wrong with being fat (as was the arguement of the first person I was discussing this with) then you might have a point (not a good point but still a point), but that isn't the case is it?
There is something wrong with being fat and it's not by making fat people a valid racial demographic (as was the arguement of the first person I was discussing this with) that is going to send them to seek help or "encourage" them to change themselves for the better.
There's a lot of irony in this thread - I've been called all sorts of things such as abusive, a nazi, a fireman(wtf, dude srsly?), hateful, etc etc etc, by both you and the first person I was originally discussing this with, yet the both of you are the only ones that exhibited all of those traits within this thread. One would think that if I had any inclination towards hate or name calling I'd of exhibited it by now... One would also think that you would view name calling and insults as despicable, but that's not the case, you've made name calling and abuse a negative trait for a person to have and then expressed both of them towards me... , yet, I've not shown on One would think that if I had any inclination towards nothing , but that's not the case
To sum up my points: Fat people are not a racial demographic. Being fat is a lifestyle choice and not equal to being white, or black, first nations, or jewish... Being fat is not healthy human condition. Fat kids should be left alone. Pressure to be somewhat fit should be applied to adults only. Encouraging a person to be less fat validates the initial pressure applied to the fat person in whatever form it may of been in (not only abuse or name calling) which turns your "encouragement" into additional pressure.
Hazelle, why have you dug so deep into social or psychological means to consider encouragement, pressure? To you, is there not a positive difference between encouragement and pressure? Encouragement is, in not exact terms, the positive synonym to pressure making them completely different.
Therefore, it's your denotation of the word encouragement, not definition, that it is flawed; therefore, your argument on the idea of encouragement being pressure, is lost. Because what you are arguing is opinion, shaped by external influence, not fact.
Lets say this: Encouragement is the healthiest form of pressure and should be the only form used to inform another their lifestyle is flawed. Due to the the rules of which we live by, said overweight person has the right to consider, then accept or refuse the encouragement.
Also, Juggalo, your refutes against Hazelle's notion is held in contempt.. You're pulling at strings in this discussion, which my brain goes numb from.
To bring this on topic and back to facts: Being overweight is unhealthy, and yes, you should review that of which you feed yourself. Should you choose not to, you may either bring doom upon yourself, or strike out lucky and face no consequence.
KillerTwinkie - That one guy who used to mod mmorpg.com's forums.
Pressure is really the only word that adequately encompasses all methods used to get overweight people to change their lifestyle. I agree that it can carry negative connotations with it, but when applied in an instance where a person's lifestyle is detrimental to their health or safety or another persons, it tends to shed the negative and become a positive compelling influence.
I agree that encouragement is the healthiest form of pressure and will go further to say that verbal and physical abuse are the least. There are other forms, like the ones I mentioned above, that don't fit into encouragement or abuse (cautionary tales for a further example) that can influence an overweight person to lose weight so I'm not inclined to agree that encouragement should be the only method applied.
Just let them die if they're not gonna do anything about it. Sorry but people who get fat and then moan about it are pathetic and I have no Sympathy. Most just try and mass it off as a medical condition while they're eating 10 pizzas a day lol. I see one fat woman take her dog for a walk on one of them 3 wheel scooter things lol. Like there is nothing wrong with your legs, I've seen you walking so fucking get off your fat arse and walk your dog with your legs and lose some weight. It pisses me off seeing that sad pathetic lump of shit go by everyday, even the kids taking the piss out of how fat she all the time doesn't get her to lose weight... just no self respect.
Hate fat people like that, makes me sick.
Know what the Irony here is, I am using the same negative reinforcement you want to be used against fat people against you and you feel it is unfair. That is the irony, you are a blind and stupid hypocrite. So just like my abuse has not changed your outlook in a positive way, except making you feel like the Nazi you are, your abuse changes crap.
I don't care about demographics, this, that, or the other. I care about the impact mental abuse has on all bullied people, fat or other wise. Bullying is not a tactic that creates a healthy individual. Saying fat people desereve to be stigmatized reinforces the behavoir of bullies by making it socially acceptable. As someone who has been bullied when I was a kid, I don't stand for bullies now (many former bosses can attest to this)
You feel I have treated you unfairly, TOUGH, all my life I was treated unfairly because of the way I looked. At least I am judging you on the content of your beliefs.
To me it is not a discussion, to me and all former or current fat people this is a war. I don't care if I change anyone's mind or your mental state, like no one cared about my mental state for 30 years of my life (always was fat). If you want a rational debate between the abuser and abused, then your brain truly is numb.
See, ah that great form of encouragement through stigmatization! This is it in action, don't be naive and act like stimatization can be nice.
It's people like this that make me wish my dean never caught me with that knife.
--When you resubscribe to SWG, an 18 yearold Stripper finds Jesus, gives up stripping, and moves with a rolex reverend to Hawaii.
--In MMORPG's l007 is the opiate of the masses.
--The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence!
--CCP could cut off an Eve player's fun bits, and that player would say that it was good CCP did that.
And if a fat kid is bullied then at least he is getting some exercise from all the running away of beatings.
Beatings? Ha, if it were pysical my 300+ lbs @ss would have just choked them to death. No, it's mental, much more harsh than the little bitty scraps that you got beat up in as little trash.
--When you resubscribe to SWG, an 18 yearold Stripper finds Jesus, gives up stripping, and moves with a rolex reverend to Hawaii.
--In MMORPG's l007 is the opiate of the masses.
--The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence!
--CCP could cut off an Eve player's fun bits, and that player would say that it was good CCP did that.
Going to America a few times really made me realise why there are so many fat people. There isn't that Stigma behind it there anymore like there is here in Europe and when 50% of the people I saw weren't just fat but Obese, it really makes it seem normal to kids so they become fat too.
Also when I went to a Restaurant the starters were the size of a Main meal here and the main was like a pile of food on a plate. It got to the point where I skipped the started, just ordered a main and still only ate half of it. There is no reason why any Human should be eating that much food and I always saw people walking home with it in bags to finish later. Frigging surely less Restaurants would shut down if they served smaller portions so people didn't have so much they had to finish it at home.
The funniest thing was at this one place I ordered some cake and I was expecting a slice like you'd get here. Instead I got the WHOLE cake and it's like............. "can I take that to go?" lol.
That said I love going to America and meet such friendly people, I just wish they would eat less. Do that and maybe we'll get better Dental Care in Europe lol.
Oh you superior Europeans! Ah ha ha ha! Yeah, proof there are shitheads in every country. Oh and please visit Chicago, I'll take you to where I am from on the West Side and dissappear you like some German tourists in Miami.
By the way, fix your profile, it says you are from Tennessee.
--When you resubscribe to SWG, an 18 yearold Stripper finds Jesus, gives up stripping, and moves with a rolex reverend to Hawaii.
--In MMORPG's l007 is the opiate of the masses.
--The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence!
--CCP could cut off an Eve player's fun bits, and that player would say that it was good CCP did that.
Where did I say anything about anything being unfair? You seems to believe that I'm abusive and violent but I've not shown any violence or abuse towards somebody that has been abusive towards me. Where are you getting that I'm abusive or violent? Where? You are judging me based on the content of your own imagination in regards to me and not anything rooted in reality. .
I really wish you would read what I've typed instead of inventing things and then raging about those imaginary inventions...
Juggalo... I understand you have history with this, and i'm sure many on the forums do. Just look at the views of this discussion and you can see it is followed heavily, as many people are on both sides of the fence.
Considering your history with this subject I can honestly say that your attempts to say the discussion is ill, is shaped by your personal history. The idea of this discussion, as stated by the OP, is to help others.
Not every person wants to see another hurt, Juggalo. Please do not spread such hate here, either. Yes, some people may go to extremes and they're at fault. This does mean every person with the heart to help is at fault.
KillerTwinkie - That one guy who used to mod mmorpg.com's forums.
Props to you. Excellent, intelligent response. Despite what I said abot being naive, (er, regardless of that comment) you are rational in thought and logically mature. Thank you!!!!! Seriously ,thank you, lol.
Soooooooooooo many people on this website fail reading comprehension 101.
Literally, you can have a thread saying "I just had a baby, I'm a dad! Yay!" and people will LITERALLY read it and *somehow* translate it into "I eat babbies, bwahahahaha!" and then write a 5 page thesis critiquing how it is wrong to eat babbies. (I intentionally mispelt babies as babbies, refering to an internet meme "How is babby formed?" which is IMO one of the funniest things in the universe, roflmao.
Really though, the majority of this forum dont even read or comprehend what they read. Thy are literally as rational in argument as the person who answered "How is babby formed?"
Because to any rational thinker...encouragement is a form of pressure... duh...
Pressure, or what others would call stress (in other words to "stress" someone to do something), can be both positive and negative.
This isn't a disputable fact. Encouragement applies social pressure, and can be a form of stress.