well consider how great Dragon Age 1 was and how DA2 just fell apart does make you wonder whats going on in a company and considering prior to that what games have they made in thepast that were not great games for the most part?
That's the thing I didn't find DA1 to be so good, nor DA2 I did play them both, couldn't finish either (quit both near the end), I found 1 to be a bad attempt at a throwback, I actually felt DA2 was a better approach. The story still failed to grab me, I'm just not that into medieval fantasy (Unless its TES). I felt the writing was more concise, with a better approach to how the tale was told.
Jade Empire was a little weak, KOTOR was good but the best part about it was that it was a new experience for me in many ways at the time. For me their best game has been ME2. I'll wait to see ME3 before I say Bioware lost their touch.
also I'm pretty sure the OP meant for the most part if the game was excatly the same as this one as in a themepark clone without much new aside from biowares story elements but not star wars would it do as well.. I would say no... anything you slap star wars on is going to initially sell well no matter what the actually quality of it.
My point still stands as I presented it, just because BIoware didn't create a star wars game doesn't mean another company couldn't take a similar approach yet still succeed. I don't feel TOR is the best game ever or anything, it's just good IMO, I don't think that's a feat only achievable by Bioware or Star Wars.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
We'll know after the second month numbers come out if the game merits the popularity of the original draw.
I imagine the detractors of the game are praying that it fails in some deluded belief that it will halt the general trend of the genre towards greater casual game play and convince the developers to return to a more hardcore, masochistic play style.
It's probably easier to believe that all the detractors are hardcore, masochistic gamers, but the fact of the matter is that there is a large group of people unhappy with what was provided in TOR, and that group spreads across a very large range of individual preferences for entertainment.
I know, it's easy and cathartic to blame it all on the hardcore gamers. If I wasn't trying to be nice, I'd make a statement about how some mindless collection of drones has allowed the genre to become stale, uncreative, and derivative. Oh wait.
And we all know that the majority of the gamers bucking the current trends are hardcores. There will always be those few exceptions to the rule, but they are only exceptions. All you have to do is pay attention to the comments made by these people on a daily basis. They paint themselves as hardcores who love sandboxes and raiding and embrace exclusive content over the noobs. It shows up in almost every single comment that denegrates games like WoW and TOR. Not my problem if you lack the observational skills to see that.
If sandwiches were not made of other foods and placed between slices of bread, would you still eat them, and would they still be a staple of the average diet in America?
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How ever it might get a decent chance mainly due to story elements itself.
Though honestly and I'll admit I like listening and reading, which why people claim it's a different experience, it's really the same however the sheer fact that your doing because he/she [said] it needs to be done makes it better to many.
However BW could have took a step further but that's another story lol.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Star Wars helps.. but I don't doubt they could do equally well... maybe even better with a Mass Effect MMO.
Problem here is the quality of the game itself.
If this exact same game were made by another company... say our former friend Cryptic... it would not get anywhere near the "professional" ratings it does.
Say what? No it wouldn't. The hype wouldn't be there, it would be just another mmorpg in the bunch. It wouldn't attract all the star wars fans who reject to see how awful this game really is.
Star Wars helps.. but I don't doubt they could do equally well... maybe even better with a Mass Effect MMO.
Problem here is the quality of the game itself.
If this exact same game were made by another company... say our former friend Cryptic... it would not get anywhere near the "professional" ratings it does.
Say what? No it wouldn't. The hype wouldn't be there, it would be just another mmorpg in the bunch. It wouldn't attract all the star wars fans who reject to see how awful this game really is.
Pretty much and what's sad is many of the fans of this game would infact say it's a clone with just VOs if it wasn't star wars and made by BW.
Now if it was a matter of or that's a different story it might of been made different.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
I'm playing mostly for the story, the gameplay they used has gotten stale with me. If the story wasn't about Star Wars, i doubt i would be all that interested, and probably wouldn't have given it a second look.
What I was getting at earlier is that this thread is too abstract to make a point. I think the OP was going for a "rose by any other name" kind of theme, but instead came off with "if a rose were not a plant at all, but some completely other type of unrelated object" instead.
We need a more specific description of what the OP is asking. If they remove the BW and SW trademark features, you get a game that is nothing like SWTOR. So, where is the relevance?
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I would not have tried it. Same with Skyrim. My time is too valuable to spend all day playing though the 1000s of games available. However, I've been burned a lot more recently (crappy borefest Skyrim, Dragon Age 2, last 3 Call Of Duty's, Mass Effect 2, SWTOR, etc).
Lots of terrible games today. Which is why I'm moving more towards foreign games because they seem more ahead of times (passed this current trend of the industry). Though, I'll only touch companies who have a lot of crediability in their country (because of time, again).
I will say though that company's that don't seem to have given me a bad game yet have been Blizzard (WoW, Starcraft2, Diablo, Warcraft) and Dice (BF2, BF3, BF:BC, BF:BC2).
Would you still play it?, and would this game get so high rating across the boards on all gaming sites and mags?
If there were no lightsabres and no SW lore in it then of course I would not play it. I sick to the teeth of all these EQ / WOW style clones. It is only because it is SW that I am playing it.
if just a normal mmo came out (without SW or Bioware names attached) with the exact same FEATURES as TOR, it would be absolutely SHREDDED by the community. The story would get props, but as a whole, it would be torn to bits.
I would have the same exact sentiment and feeling towards this game. Then again I'm not one of those that thinks this game is something special.
Said all along that it is decent and if I were to review it my score would be around a 7.0
I'm enjoying it for the most part besides how much of a hassle it is to find people for group content at times. Which is all that really matters anyways.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
If this game was made by The Mitt Romney for President PAC instead of BioWare and based in the Spongebob Squarepants universe rather than that of Star Wars...
Actually, I probably would play that.
... so maybe that's a poor example... but to answer your question: No, not necessarily.
EDIT: I would like to add that I think the assertion that WoW achieved unprecedented subscription numbers in large part due to name recognition is pretty ridiculous. Blizzard wasn't a household name prior to WoW (at least, not for normal people). They had a strong following of PC gaming veterans, sure, but they were hardly mainstream. A lot of WoW's subscriber base comes from Asia as well... and Blizzard's previous games did not sell especially well in those markets.
riiight, like 12 million people would have subbed to WoW without it saying BLIZZARD on it's cover team obvious to the rescue!
that's just it.
12 million people didn't subscribe to WoW because it was a Blizzard game.
if I recall the game had something like 2 million subscribers after 6 months or so... I think that's about as far out as you can claim people were buying the game "because it was a Blizzard game." Growth after that was because it was a really good game and was getting great reviews and appealing to people that were not MMO gamers or even gamers at all.
Wait...so not made by BioWare and NOT set in the Star Wars Universe. You mean, like World of Warcraft? Not made by BioWare and not in the Star Wars universe....
The answer is no. I would not play WoW. Tried the trial and it is just a SWTOR clone.
if just a normal mmo came out (without SW or Bioware names attached) with the exact same FEATURES as TOR, it would be absolutely SHREDDED by the community. The story would get props, but as a whole, it would be torn to bits.
Well, the obvious answer is that a no-name company building a non-IP game for $120 million would never happen. No investers would materialize for it.
But if it did, then no. I wouldn't be ripping it apart. The game is solid -- don't care what the h8ers say. Yeah, it needs improvements in some areas but it is a fun, engaging game.
if just a normal mmo came out (without SW or Bioware names attached) with the exact same FEATURES as TOR, it would be absolutely SHREDDED by the community. The story would get props, but as a whole, it would be torn to bits.
I think it would be LESS shredded by that part of the community, bc it wouldn't be SW and it wouldn't be BW, so their expectations or projections what the game should be would be a lot less. It'd go a lot less a political/ideological anti campaign by people who feel it should have been more like SWG or who feel that it simply should have been more like their idealised dream bc it was SW and BW. Or who feel threatened by another big AAA themepark MMORPG with a big IP and company behind it might reaffirm the popularity of the themepark design as an MMO genre. People'd treat it more on face value, and simply go 'ah, another themepark MMO' and love what it offers or dislike it.
But I'm 100% certain that there would be a lot less controversy and polarised ideological debates if it wouldn't have Star Wars and Bioware attached to it.
if just a normal mmo came out (without SW or Bioware names attached) with the exact same FEATURES as TOR, it would be absolutely SHREDDED by the community. The story would get props, but as a whole, it would be torn to bits.
I think it would be LESS shredded by that part of the community, bc it wouldn't be SW and it wouldn't be BW, so their expectations or projections what the game should be would be a lot less. It'd go a lot less a political/ideological anti campaign by people who feel it should have been more like SWG or who feel that it simply should have been more like their idealised dream bc it was SW and BW. Or who feel threatened by another big AAA themepark MMORPG with a big IP and company behind it might reaffirm the popularity of the themepark design as an MMO genre. People'd treat it more on face value, and simply go 'ah, another themepark MMO' and love what it offers or dislike it.
But I'm 100% certain that there would be a lot less controversy and polarised ideological debates if it wouldn't have Star Wars and Bioware attached to it.
personally, i like bioware. i don't understand the hate. i like star wars, too. well. some of it. the latest three films? not much.
but i personally shred the game because i can't find star wars in the game called star wars. all the cool things that make star wars movies cool just aren't in the game. for me, this game is a flop, not because of the company, or because of the star wars (tm), but because the game itself isn't solid. it's a set of interesting ideas held together with string and a few tabs of gaffa.
having said that, if you reskinned it and upped the character cusomisation, you could possibly pass it off as a reasonable sequel to the city of heroes universe?
if just a normal mmo came out (without SW or Bioware names attached) with the exact same FEATURES as TOR, it would be absolutely SHREDDED by the community. The story would get props, but as a whole, it would be torn to bits.
Well, the obvious answer is that a no-name company building a non-IP game for $120 million would never happen. No investers would materialize for it.
But if it did, then no. I wouldn't be ripping it apart. The game is solid -- don't care what the h8ers say. Yeah, it needs improvements in some areas but it is a fun, engaging game.
I have to agree I had my doubts coming into it, aside a few features I really liked when I beta'd it for 3 month in the summer being stripped to hit release I am really enjoying my time in SWTOR and not just the story, BH merc Pyro is the first class I have truly enjoyed in a MMO since Vanguards Ranger, I enjoy the PVP just wish we had a couple more warzones and leveling never feels boring to me, hell I even enjoy the crafting.
It does have room for improvement though, I came into it not expecting SWG2 and having never played a themepark for any amount of time longest was probably 6 month in Aion, WOW 10 minutes, LOTRO 10 minutes.
In fact the only thing I hate about SWTOR so far is the planet Voss it looks like it belongs in WOW and hurts my eyes even if I turn the contrast right down it still looks really out of place compared to other planets.
would you watch Lord of the rings movies if they weren't directed by Peter Jackson and not based Lord of the rings books at all. Jeesh trolls there days.
your analogy is flawed...lord of the rings, not based on lord of the rings? huh?
what you meant is....would you watch a fantasy movie not based on LotR and not directed by Peter Jackson?
the answer is obvious: if its good, yes.
the answer to the OP is equally obvious: if it wasnt for BioWare and the Star Wars name, this game would be already taking a nosedive.
actually Im afraid even with those, its already on its way to go belly up.
when will developers understand that releasing a game they fully know its broken and has lots of critical flaws is a long term suicide?
Comments
I laughed at this thread...
If this game came out on the Atari 20 years ago and was text based and started a thermonuclear war if played...would you still play....
My point still stands as I presented it, just because BIoware didn't create a star wars game doesn't mean another company couldn't take a similar approach yet still succeed. I don't feel TOR is the best game ever or anything, it's just good IMO, I don't think that's a feat only achievable by Bioware or Star Wars.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
And we all know that the majority of the gamers bucking the current trends are hardcores. There will always be those few exceptions to the rule, but they are only exceptions. All you have to do is pay attention to the comments made by these people on a daily basis. They paint themselves as hardcores who love sandboxes and raiding and embrace exclusive content over the noobs. It shows up in almost every single comment that denegrates games like WoW and TOR. Not my problem if you lack the observational skills to see that.
If sandwiches were not made of other foods and placed between slices of bread, would you still eat them, and would they still be a staple of the average diet in America?
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Tbh, i think the below picture summarizes why certain design decisions were made:
If SWTOR allowed you travel in time and kill baby Hitler saving millions of lives in the process... will you play the game?
This game wouldn't be too good.
How ever it might get a decent chance mainly due to story elements itself.
Though honestly and I'll admit I like listening and reading, which why people claim it's a different experience, it's really the same however the sheer fact that your doing because he/she [said] it needs to be done makes it better to many.
However BW could have took a step further but that's another story lol.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Say what? No it wouldn't. The hype wouldn't be there, it would be just another mmorpg in the bunch. It wouldn't attract all the star wars fans who reject to see how awful this game really is.
Pretty much and what's sad is many of the fans of this game would infact say it's a clone with just VOs if it wasn't star wars and made by BW.
Now if it was a matter of or that's a different story it might of been made different.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
More than likely not, no.
I'm playing mostly for the story, the gameplay they used has gotten stale with me. If the story wasn't about Star Wars, i doubt i would be all that interested, and probably wouldn't have given it a second look.
If the game was called "Unknown" and made by "I don't know" , depending on the graphics and fun factor - yes I would probably play.
But the ratings would be lower than it deserves, very rare an unknown theme and developer game gets high marks regardless of quality.
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What I was getting at earlier is that this thread is too abstract to make a point. I think the OP was going for a "rose by any other name" kind of theme, but instead came off with "if a rose were not a plant at all, but some completely other type of unrelated object" instead.
We need a more specific description of what the OP is asking. If they remove the BW and SW trademark features, you get a game that is nothing like SWTOR. So, where is the relevance?
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I would not have tried it. Same with Skyrim. My time is too valuable to spend all day playing though the 1000s of games available. However, I've been burned a lot more recently (crappy borefest Skyrim, Dragon Age 2, last 3 Call Of Duty's, Mass Effect 2, SWTOR, etc).
Lots of terrible games today. Which is why I'm moving more towards foreign games because they seem more ahead of times (passed this current trend of the industry). Though, I'll only touch companies who have a lot of crediability in their country (because of time, again).
I will say though that company's that don't seem to have given me a bad game yet have been Blizzard (WoW, Starcraft2, Diablo, Warcraft) and Dice (BF2, BF3, BF:BC, BF:BC2).
If there were no lightsabres and no SW lore in it then of course I would not play it. I sick to the teeth of all these EQ / WOW style clones. It is only because it is SW that I am playing it.
if just a normal mmo came out (without SW or Bioware names attached) with the exact same FEATURES as TOR, it would be absolutely SHREDDED by the community. The story would get props, but as a whole, it would be torn to bits.
team obvious to the rescue!
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
I would have the same exact sentiment and feeling towards this game. Then again I'm not one of those that thinks this game is something special.
Said all along that it is decent and if I were to review it my score would be around a 7.0
I'm enjoying it for the most part besides how much of a hassle it is to find people for group content at times. Which is all that really matters anyways.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
If this game was made by The Mitt Romney for President PAC instead of BioWare and based in the Spongebob Squarepants universe rather than that of Star Wars...
Actually, I probably would play that.
... so maybe that's a poor example... but to answer your question: No, not necessarily.
EDIT:
I would like to add that I think the assertion that WoW achieved unprecedented subscription numbers in large part due to name recognition is pretty ridiculous. Blizzard wasn't a household name prior to WoW (at least, not for normal people). They had a strong following of PC gaming veterans, sure, but they were hardly mainstream. A lot of WoW's subscriber base comes from Asia as well... and Blizzard's previous games did not sell especially well in those markets.
that's just it.
12 million people didn't subscribe to WoW because it was a Blizzard game.
if I recall the game had something like 2 million subscribers after 6 months or so... I think that's about as far out as you can claim people were buying the game "because it was a Blizzard game." Growth after that was because it was a really good game and was getting great reviews and appealing to people that were not MMO gamers or even gamers at all.
Wait...so not made by BioWare and NOT set in the Star Wars Universe. You mean, like World of Warcraft? Not made by BioWare and not in the Star Wars universe....
The answer is no. I would not play WoW. Tried the trial and it is just a SWTOR clone.
Well, the obvious answer is that a no-name company building a non-IP game for $120 million would never happen. No investers would materialize for it.
But if it did, then no. I wouldn't be ripping it apart. The game is solid -- don't care what the h8ers say. Yeah, it needs improvements in some areas but it is a fun, engaging game.
I think it would be LESS shredded by that part of the community, bc it wouldn't be SW and it wouldn't be BW, so their expectations or projections what the game should be would be a lot less. It'd go a lot less a political/ideological anti campaign by people who feel it should have been more like SWG or who feel that it simply should have been more like their idealised dream bc it was SW and BW. Or who feel threatened by another big AAA themepark MMORPG with a big IP and company behind it might reaffirm the popularity of the themepark design as an MMO genre. People'd treat it more on face value, and simply go 'ah, another themepark MMO' and love what it offers or dislike it.But I'm 100% certain that there would be a lot less controversy and polarised ideological debates if it wouldn't have Star Wars and Bioware attached to it.
personally, i like bioware. i don't understand the hate. i like star wars, too. well. some of it. the latest three films? not much.
but i personally shred the game because i can't find star wars in the game called star wars. all the cool things that make star wars movies cool just aren't in the game. for me, this game is a flop, not because of the company, or because of the star wars (tm), but because the game itself isn't solid. it's a set of interesting ideas held together with string and a few tabs of gaffa.
having said that, if you reskinned it and upped the character cusomisation, you could possibly pass it off as a reasonable sequel to the city of heroes universe?
I have to agree I had my doubts coming into it, aside a few features I really liked when I beta'd it for 3 month in the summer being stripped to hit release I am really enjoying my time in SWTOR and not just the story, BH merc Pyro is the first class I have truly enjoyed in a MMO since Vanguards Ranger, I enjoy the PVP just wish we had a couple more warzones and leveling never feels boring to me, hell I even enjoy the crafting.
It does have room for improvement though, I came into it not expecting SWG2 and having never played a themepark for any amount of time longest was probably 6 month in Aion, WOW 10 minutes, LOTRO 10 minutes.
In fact the only thing I hate about SWTOR so far is the planet Voss it looks like it belongs in WOW and hurts my eyes even if I turn the contrast right down it still looks really out of place compared to other planets.
your analogy is flawed...lord of the rings, not based on lord of the rings? huh?
what you meant is....would you watch a fantasy movie not based on LotR and not directed by Peter Jackson?
the answer is obvious: if its good, yes.
the answer to the OP is equally obvious: if it wasnt for BioWare and the Star Wars name, this game would be already taking a nosedive.
actually Im afraid even with those, its already on its way to go belly up.
when will developers understand that releasing a game they fully know its broken and has lots of critical flaws is a long term suicide?
when? when? when?