In this brave new world, a large percentage of boys and girls around the college age all have play, or actively play, some type of video games. Whether it is MMOs, consoles, cell phone games, or just facebook games, you will find it hard-pressed to find someone in their 20s now who doesn't play something preriodically.
Should that be your pick up line? Of course not! Unless she is wearing a super mario t-shirt.
I'm 44 so "no" ; )
Hmm you might be surprised....lol You should try it.
Gaming is for sure better than gambling and drinking :P
and if you are married...better make sure to get permission first LOL
"Rise up everyone and quit playing what you enjoy and what fits you to save me..."
Am I doing it right?
I didn't say quit playing it. I am not so naive that I believe anyone will magically wake up and change their opinion. Instead, I made this post to get fans of SWTOR to explain to me one thing, and one thing only.
Could have fooled me with the title of this thread. When you title a thread that says you hope a game that we like to fail, don't expect sunshine and rainbows in the response.
"As a fan of SWTOR, do you feel that your playstyle and games that suit you should be the only games being made?"
That's the attitude of SWTOR fanboys, who don't realize that their fun comes (indirectly) at the expense of others, and then wonder why those others are flaming their game on the forums.
Please show me where anyone has said that their style of game should be the only one being made. I've never said it and neither has anyone else. I do think some fanboys have gone overboard in gushing about how great TOR is, but that comes with any game. I don't think it's perfect by any means, but it is definetly the most fun I've ever had playing an MMORPG. Another misconception of yours is that we've had previous games tailored to fit us. All I can say is that those previous games did a poor job of it because I never lasted the free month in any of them. If TOR was an exact copy of WOW I wouldn't touch it.
My fun does not come at the expense of yours. That is a very narcissistic view point that has no basis in reality. The MMO world does not revolve around wether or not you and others like you are having fun. Entertainment always changes. Television was once dominated by westerns and then the 70s rolled around and they were gone. Popular music was all Elvis until the beatles came along. Right now MMORPGs are shifting from the old grindfests that were UO to EQ to WOW. TOR is just one of MANY MMOs that you have the option to play. Check out the gaming forums to the left of the screen and go from A -Z. Don't tell me that none of those game fits your playstyle. If that is the case then there is no pleasing you and TOR's success has no bearing on your ability to enjoy MMOs.
In this brave new world, a large percentage of boys and girls around the college age all have play, or actively play, some type of video games. Whether it is MMOs, consoles, cell phone games, or just facebook games, you will find it hard-pressed to find someone in their 20s now who doesn't play something preriodically.
Should that be your pick up line? Of course not! Unless she is wearing a super mario t-shirt.
I'm 44 so "no" ; )
that's right, either smart children or adults that turn murderers of communists.
"Rise up everyone and quit playing what you enjoy and what fits you to save me..."
Am I doing it right?
I didn't say quit playing it. I am not so naive that I believe anyone will magically wake up and change their opinion. Instead, I made this post to get fans of SWTOR to explain to me one thing, and one thing only.
"As a fan of SWTOR, do you feel that your playstyle and games that suit you should be the only games being made?"
That's the attitude of SWTOR fanboys, who don't realize that their fun comes (indirectly) at the expense of others, and then wonder why those others are flaming their game on the forums.
Boo. I am a fan of SWTOR but there should be and are lots of other types of games. Who ever said there should only be themeparks? Seriously? Did I miss some comment somewhere? I'm serious: when did anyone say this? If you think some comments infer this then you may be right but you may also be wrong. Your line of thinking stresses me out a bit because it's so linear and black and white. My advice is to just be patient and see if a game you like gets developed. To say that the success of one format precludes all other formats is a near-conspiracy theory that, even when shown evidence to the contrary, will always be able to survive based on this kind of thinking. Companies and investors do their own thing and just because I like a particular product doesn't make me a dipshit enemy of yours who feels only one type of MMO should exist. It's so offensive to even take such a comment at face value. Surely you meant it just for shock and awe?
"Rise up everyone and quit playing what you enjoy and what fits you to save me..."
Am I doing it right?
I didn't say quit playing it. I am not so naive that I believe anyone will magically wake up and change their opinion. Instead, I made this post to get fans of SWTOR to explain to me one thing, and one thing only.
"As a fan of SWTOR, do you feel that your playstyle and games that suit you should be the only games being made?"
That's the attitude of SWTOR fanboys, who don't realize that their fun comes (indirectly) at the expense of others, and then wonder why those others are flaming their game on the forums.
Boo. I am a fan of SWTOR but there should be and are lots of other types of games. Who ever said there should only be themeparks? Seriously? Did I miss some comment somewhere? I'm serious: when did anyone say this?
I also await the proof of the vast majority of fans for this game saying that their playstyle should be the only one being made. I'm not holding my breath on it, because it doesn't exist. It was a figment of the OP's imagination.
It's not bad for the industry [if] it's successful.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
"Rise up everyone and quit playing what you enjoy and what fits you to save me..."
Am I doing it right?
I didn't say quit playing it. I am not so naive that I believe anyone will magically wake up and change their opinion. Instead, I made this post to get fans of SWTOR to explain to me one thing, and one thing only.
"As a fan of SWTOR, do you feel that your playstyle and games that suit you should be the only games being made?"
That's the attitude of SWTOR fanboys, who don't realize that their fun comes (indirectly) at the expense of others, and then wonder why those others are flaming their game on the forums.
Boo. I am a fan of SWTOR but there should be and are lots of other types of games. Who ever said there should only be themeparks? Seriously? Did I miss some comment somewhere? I'm serious: when did anyone say this?
I also await the proof of the vast majority of fans for this game saying that their playstyle should be the only one being made. I'm not holding my breath on it, because it doesn't exist. It was a figment of the OP's imagination.
Ya, it goes back to that thread from last week when the guy complained that those of us that love themeparks have destroyed his beloved genre. Now they're projecting their hate for our playstyle over to us.
I don't see that door swinging both ways, but apparently some do.
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
With the quarterly report released, and indicating 1.7 million active subscribers, I just have to sit here and shake my head. Whether or not the numbers are true, obviously the perception of investors is that they are. This is a terrible sign for the MMORPG industry, because it means that those with the money are going to look at the market and see that the three most profitable games right now are WoW, SWTOR and RIFT.
In any industry, no matter what it is or whom it caters to, as consumers, we should be encouraging CHOICES AND VARIETY. The problem with the 'hater' vs 'fanboy' debacle is that fanboys tend to look at it from a selfish perspective. THEY are having fun, so consequently the game is great, and they wonder why everyone can't, or does not want to see how great the game is. Meanwhile, the haters are looking at it from a broader perspective of what a successful SWTOR means.
This means essentially that the next five years will be the same as the previous five years. The only thing we are going to see is more homogenized, linear themepark games. SWTOR needed to fail to send a message to the industry, and apparently it hasn't. When we needed to speak with our wallets, we did, but we sent the wrong message.
We told the games industry to keep making big budget, linear themepark games. We told the people with money loud and clear that what we all want is another clone of World of Warcraft. We don't want complexity, depth, worldbuilding, social tools, meaningful interactions, group content or any of the staples that SHOULD define the genre, but no longer do. We have told the industry to continue mass producing the exact same thing, over and over again, ad nauseam. We have told them that our words mean nothing, and that, for all the complaining we may do, we really do enjoy being handheld through the entire game.
A failure of a massive title such as SWTOR could only have been good for the industry. WoW is still there as a shining example of what an MMORPG can aspire to be, however, investors would have finally seen that the way to riches as it were, is not through continuing to copy WoW, but by finding a formula that works BETTER than WoW. We have discouraged innovation and choice.
I want all fanboys and lovers of SWTOR to explain something to me in this thread. If you are enjoying SWTOR, and you can understand the concepts I'm expressing, please look at this analogy.
Let's say you have a rather big city. Once upon a time this city had no fast food industry at all. One day someone opened a hot dog stand, and it caught on. Many people began eating hot dogs and enjoying them. One day, someone opened a hamburger stand named McDonalds. People liked the hamburgers from McDonalds even better than the hot dogs. They quit buying hot dogs from the hot dog vendors and gradually all the major hot dog places closed down, or ceased to be nearly as profitable as the hamburger places. The McDonalds became so huge and so profitable that other restauranteers decided to go into the fast food industry to make their own fast food. They look at the market trends and see that everyone LOVES McDonalds, so they keep trying to create hamburgers. They all open their own hamburger place. None of them does as good as McDonalds, but they do far better than the hot dog stands were doing. This repeats for several years.
Meanwhile, you have a sizable group of people who miss eating hot dogs. Their only options for hot dogs are poor, run down places with cockroaches in the kitchen. There is maybe one good hot dog place in the entire city. They tried hamburgers, but they just don't care for them as much as they do hot dogs. They continue to wait for another new place with tasty new hot dogs to open, but it never does, because investors can make so much more money opening hamburger stands.
Now, let me ask you this. As a lover of hamburgers. As a lover of WoW/SWTOR and linear, by the book theme park games, do you believe it is fair that you have dozens of games that suit your playstyle, while the hot dog lovers, the sandbox/social/group content players have only one (that isn't a buggy awful mess)? Do you truly believe that the industry is better served by saturation of one product over another, or do you believe as all consumers SHOULD that choice and variety can only be good for the gaming industry, and we don't have those anymore?
Let me clue you in a little bit. The average 'hater' doesn't hate theme park games. The average hater is SICK AND TIRED of them. We want choice. We want to play something else once in awhile, something different yet still AAA and high quality. That is why we remain vocal on message boards such as these, it's why we insinuate ourselves in the game forums and, as all fanboys say: "complain about a game we don't even play". It's because we have no other options. Our choices have been taken away from us.
A successful SWTOR again destroys any hope on the horizon of seeing something new, because once again, investors will see that the way to money is by continuing to open hamburger stands. Us hot dog fans will continue to be disappointed for years to come.
But you know the worst part?
Investors will continue to fail to realize that they could be making more money with something new. Just like somebody once had the temerity to create a hamburger stand when everyone loved hot dogs, they became successful. Nobody will take that plunge anymore.
Nobody will create tacos, or seafood, or chinese takeout. Only hamburgers. And it is SOLELY because of the selfishness of the fanboys, who cannot concede even for a moment that they DO have options for their playstyle, and that it is high time other people in the city of Progress had a turn at something shiny, tasty and new.
So yes, haters are gonna hate. Because the MMORPG industry has proven to be the only industry where consumers seem to defy logic by choosing to reject the opportuntiy for variety and choices, and instead imbracing the factory-assembled 'checklist of fun' that is being conveyed out the door again and again.
Unacceptable.
Firstly I believe your logic is terribly flawed and selfish . This reads more like a disenchanted child stamping there feet and screaming that they aren't getting thier way or what they want. The truth however disconcerting and unpleasant is that the market produces and sells what the majority of people want or like. If you don't fall in that majority, you do have options .
Not play ( you've probably canceled your sub , if you haven't then you're as much a problem as the Dev's you rage against )
Play another game. ( although you'd you have us believe that they are rotted ancient p.o.s games according to your analogy )
Fund your own game and develop it according to your beliefs/theories and desires. ( this is after all a free market ? )
The above are all valid options , The apparent ( and I use the term apparent success of this game , because it's to early to honestly call it one ) success of SW:ToR is due in large part to one factor more then any other . It's Star Wars , and for no other reason people will be drawn to it to try it. If were any other IP , it would not have been successful on this scale. Look at STO , which has many similarities , less content and is just a very poorly done version comparitively speaking . Star Trek while popular doesn't approach the level of exposure that Lucas has built for Star Wars.
Also keep in mind that the Dev was the creator and and designer of KoTOR , and this is an extension of that experience. That experience is highly obvious and evident.
Also keep in mind that present day MMO's all look to the future. ( WoW is a very different game now then from it's original release design and intent , the game has evolved . Not necessarily for the better , but to accomadate the market and the markets desires and expectations . Is it better , it's a matter of opinion . Mine is no , but that's mine ) Especially the last 4 years. Gaming sales numbers are dominated by console numbers for the most part . With a new generation of consoles expected from both Sony and M$ in the next couple of years , I would not be surprised that these games would be compatible on those systems . Hence the design philosophy and restrictions .
While I'm not a supporter of these designs and game play by any extent , I also do understand that everything has a cycle and certain things in fashion now , will be dropped in the future and sometimes the old, becomes fashionable. I also believe that evolution in the console industry will contribute to improvement in the MMO genre design and gameplay . We are currently in a cycle that is tied to the current generation of console player and his/her experience and preferences. My preferences lay with the previous generations experiencespreferences. The golden age if you want .
When was the last time you said proudly to a girl you just met at the bar "i play videogames!"
Would never do it in a million years. If they eventually find out then fine. ; )
I am a gamer, and seeing as I am not a bar hopper, I have no problem mentioning it to the waitresses at the local resturant when I pick up a new title. Heck sometimes I get a club sandwich for a late night snack if I know I am gonna put in a major jam session, and when ordering one the other night, the one waitress labeled the box "Evan's late night snack".
Some really nice women work there. I am always discussing games/movies/kids/life as we know it everytime I am waiting on my take out order. It is the same for any business I frequent....they know I am a gamer. I cerntainly dont go out of my way to appear to be something I am not.
What I would never do, nor admit to it if I did would be to own up to a habit of bitching about a video game daily, on a message board, for months on end. What game you are playing can make for some general conversation. I wouldnt imagine those that have been complaing about things like TOR, or the changing of SWG, would ever do so in public. That is along the lines of Jerry Springer material if ya ask me.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
If SWTOR still has 1.7 million subscribers in July, then call me.
Hehe.
I wonder what's going to happen to all the hataz if SWTOR has 2m subs in July, then eventually up to maybe around 3 milion for a few years? Will their tiny minds be able to handle it? Won't they just explode?
My prediction since beta late 2010 is that this is going to easily be the second biggest "proper" Western MMO. Nothing can possibly catch WoW at this point, and even in decline it's still a monster. But I think SWTOR will perform very well.
I'm enjoying the heck out of it, anyway, especially since ability delay is now fixed for me. The forum entertainment is just icing on the cake.
Funnily enough though, in game, I very rarely hear unhappy folks. The atmosphere in-game (at least on Lord Calypho) is that of a happily humming MMO. People asking questions, answering, the occasional bit of shit-shooting, calls for groups, calls for members, etc. And, again, my subjective estimate is that numbers have actually gone slightly up. And the later levels are starting to fill in a bit too (Alderaan which a few weeks ago was the cut-off point from "lots of people teaming" to "not enough people on server to find teams". Now Alderaan is filling up and that cut-off point seems to be more like Balmorra.
No, this game is going to be good for the industry, like WoW was - it will reassure investors that MMO are worth investing in, and more people wlil make more MMOs, some of which are likely to be better than anything we've seen so far, or at the very least good in parts (and contributing to a market where there's something for everyone).
I think the surprising effect SWTOR is going to have on the industry is raising the bar for quest delivery in subsequent MMOs, as, a few years down the line, SWTOR fans will be looking for another MMO, and will no doubt haunt forums where they piss and moan about how the latest hype doesn't have any goddamn voice-acting!!!
GW2 is breaking away from the mold. Some may say TSW is as well, I don't know enough about it to judge. Titan is apparently going to offer something quite different from WOW.
But like it or not, WOW set the precedent for a massively successful theme park MMO. Many companies will follow that model until it dries up. SWTOR failing wouldn't have changed that, because the message would simply be not to release a subscription MMO that isn't ready to be released.
I hate the fact that some of my all time favorite TV shows got cancelled while crap shows get high ratings and continue forever. It's all about what is popular. Majority rules.
So, basically what you like is a niche game. Most other people like something different from you, and so game developers, understandably, caters to the majority in order to make the most profit.
I think it's not that people don't like choice or variety, only in MMORPG industry. It's that the majority of people are getting sufficient variety to suit their taste.
As an analogy, I like reading fantasy novels. To someone who only like other genre, every new fantasy novel that comes out would seem like a clone of all previous ones. But to the fans, each are refreshing and fun enough. And asking these fans to stop reading those books so more writers would write about the niche genre that you like is not going to work.
I don't think your only option is to go to the extreme of making your own game. In theory, in a free market I believe the solution is to pay a premium to get what you like. If you can't get the economics of scale on your side, simply offer to pay more in order to make it worth the development team's time to make the game that you like. So perhaps indicate to the developers that there would be a significant number of people who would like to play a different kind of game, willing to pay extra ($50 per month or something like that). If you are not willing to pay the premium...well, you can always try to evangelize your kind of game and get more fans on your side. Other than that, tough, no one is saying the world is fair.
Saying a succesful big budget game is bad for the industry is ridiculous. if u want companies to spend money making mmo's every mmo succes no matter the style, thempark vs sandbox, or sandpark is good for the mmo industry.
If a company can spend 200 million as has been speculated and make a profit u will see more companies willing to spend and take a chance on big budget mmo's which is only good for gamers as a whole.
It means eventually a company will make your galaxies 2 type game or big budget sandbox that players seem to want. Not all companies are going to go the route of tor.
They will all go there own way and do there own things , sure most games copy mechanics but how many advance have been made in fps, or fighter game or even sports games mechanics. The truth is not alot, most games use the same style of mechanics as alot of games in there genre.
Tors success means big name companies with big budgets will continue to dip there toe into the mmo market and make there style of game and eventually some of them will make those big game changes so many here yearn for.
so no tor's success is not bad for the industry anymore then the success of eve of gw 2 or secret world will be bad for the genre.
I started reading this, and then I simply got a headache.
Just another "This game is wrong, it must die," thread, with absolute garbage reasoning. And OP calls the people playing it selfish because they enjoy it? PAH. He's selfish because he doesn't want others to like it.
I like SwToR and can see the potential the game has for the next few years. I also am a person that has loved sandbox mmos in the past. My life has changed and I dont have the time I used to to sit down for hours on end to play a game. SwToR allows me to play when I'm able and not feel useless.
Would I have liked swtor to be swg2 ..... sure, am I endlessly disappointed....no.
I still would like to see a game that is an actual living breathing world that allows me to live within it. I would prefer scifi because i am sick of trolls and elves. There are game companies out there still making new styles and such but no one and I repeat no one has made anything innovative in the genre since the mmo market first began.
Some day someone will get the whole living breathing world thing and make a game that is truly that. Unti then I will enjoy playing swtor because at present it is what I enjoy.
Bad for the industry not really the video game business is not much different than TV and the movies. How many pawn shows are on tv now since Pawn Stars was so successful? How many CSI's, NCI's, Law and Order shows do you have? Most of the time the orginal show is the one with the biggest audience and the rest are trying to take some share of that market.
What SWTOR is doing is carving out its section of the WoW market. I know some are going to say its nothing like WoW, blah, blah but it really offers the same core game with some twist. Bioware never claimed it to be something new and genre changing so I am really shocked by the shear volume of hate on most forums(it is not just here it is every game forum). All this shows there is still a market for these type of games, but not remotely close to the orginals success.
For me I realized a long time ago they are not making MMO's for me anymore, it was a hard thing for me to accept but it is the truth. For many who are really hyped up for GW2 I think they are going to be even more disappointed than they were with SWTOR.
Let's apply the OP's logic to other industries, shall we?
"A successful rocket launch by NASA will be bad for the space industry"
"A successful comic book release will be bad for Marvel/D.C."
"A successful board game release will be bad for Hasbro"
This is the sort of innane logic we're left with in this country: If something is successful, it's a failure.
You are not applying it correctly, I think. It is more "A successful conventional chemical-fuel rocket launch by NASA will be bad for the space industry, because now other types of propulsion technology (solar sails, nuclear, etc) will not get any serious look or funding by the higher ups since the old method still works well enough. A failure here may encourage more innovation/experimentation in the search for a next generation rocket engines and be better for the industry as a whole in the long run". As morbid as that sounds, I think he has a point there.
Of course, the other view points mentioned before, that a major failure will simply leave us with no funding whatsoever for anyone in the industry, is possible as well. I don't know enough about the investment climate in the mmo industry (or space industry) to say which is more likely.
Not sure if the point applies for comic or board games, since I'm not familiar with them, is anyone hurting for variety there? I may be able to make the same argument if there are.
I used to think SWTOR needed to do badly... but then I start to think of the list of upcoming MMOs. It really is going to be interesting. There are a lot of new games in early development that are vaslty different from the standard games on the market, but even the ones coming out this year are going to change things up a lot. I'm starting to see things in a more positive light now when it comes to the MMO genre, and it has absolutely nothing to do with the success or failure of SWTOR.
Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure.
This kind of ass-backwards thinking is something I've even be guilty of subscribing to myself at times, but it simply doesn't hold water, successful things do not hold back other things from being successful, if it has enough of the right stuff to be successful it will create it's own market.
Foo Fighters are successful, does their success stop other bands from becoming successful?...
Star Trek was successful (for most of it's lifetime anyway) didn't stop Stargate etc...
Pizza is successful, doesn't stop people eating Indian meals...
The more you leave the secluded mind-space of the rabid MMO- "fan" the less sound the convulted logic that got you there looks, it's all about perspective & when you sink into thinking like the OP, you've lost that perspective.
This reminds me when Warhammer Online AOR came out and had a successful launch and then WOW expansion came out
and wiped it clean. Well EA get ready to experience this again because later this year Guild Wars 2 is coming out. Now if an "expansion" can wipe out Warhammer online that requires a montly fee what will Guild Wars 2 do to SWTOR....Guild Wars 2 looks like a much better online experience than SWTOR and it's F2Play.....
I think SWTOR is at it's peak I don't think it will attract any more players than it has now and many have already started getting bored and are leaving.
I think the number one biggest attraction for this game was slapping the Star Wars Logo on it the lock in the fanatical cult following Star Wars has.
AMD Phenum II x4 3.6Ghz 975 black edition 8 gig Ram Nvidia GeForce GTX 760
Comments
Hmm you might be surprised....lol You should try it.
Gaming is for sure better than gambling and drinking :P
and if you are married...better make sure to get permission first LOL
Please show me where anyone has said that their style of game should be the only one being made. I've never said it and neither has anyone else. I do think some fanboys have gone overboard in gushing about how great TOR is, but that comes with any game. I don't think it's perfect by any means, but it is definetly the most fun I've ever had playing an MMORPG. Another misconception of yours is that we've had previous games tailored to fit us. All I can say is that those previous games did a poor job of it because I never lasted the free month in any of them. If TOR was an exact copy of WOW I wouldn't touch it.
My fun does not come at the expense of yours. That is a very narcissistic view point that has no basis in reality. The MMO world does not revolve around wether or not you and others like you are having fun. Entertainment always changes. Television was once dominated by westerns and then the 70s rolled around and they were gone. Popular music was all Elvis until the beatles came along. Right now MMORPGs are shifting from the old grindfests that were UO to EQ to WOW. TOR is just one of MANY MMOs that you have the option to play. Check out the gaming forums to the left of the screen and go from A -Z. Don't tell me that none of those game fits your playstyle. If that is the case then there is no pleasing you and TOR's success has no bearing on your ability to enjoy MMOs.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
And for me. Hello. Plz don't isolate him, throw your stones at me too, cruel mob.
the best blog of the net
that's right, either smart children or adults that turn murderers of communists.
All because games just have to be fun.
the best blog of the net
Boo. I am a fan of SWTOR but there should be and are lots of other types of games. Who ever said there should only be themeparks? Seriously? Did I miss some comment somewhere? I'm serious: when did anyone say this? If you think some comments infer this then you may be right but you may also be wrong. Your line of thinking stresses me out a bit because it's so linear and black and white. My advice is to just be patient and see if a game you like gets developed. To say that the success of one format precludes all other formats is a near-conspiracy theory that, even when shown evidence to the contrary, will always be able to survive based on this kind of thinking. Companies and investors do their own thing and just because I like a particular product doesn't make me a dipshit enemy of yours who feels only one type of MMO should exist. It's so offensive to even take such a comment at face value. Surely you meant it just for shock and awe?
Edit: Pretty hilarious grammar error
I also await the proof of the vast majority of fans for this game saying that their playstyle should be the only one being made. I'm not holding my breath on it, because it doesn't exist. It was a figment of the OP's imagination.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
It's not bad for the industry [if] it's successful.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Ya, it goes back to that thread from last week when the guy complained that those of us that love themeparks have destroyed his beloved genre. Now they're projecting their hate for our playstyle over to us.
I don't see that door swinging both ways, but apparently some do.
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
Firstly I believe your logic is terribly flawed and selfish . This reads more like a disenchanted child stamping there feet and screaming that they aren't getting thier way or what they want. The truth however disconcerting and unpleasant is that the market produces and sells what the majority of people want or like. If you don't fall in that majority, you do have options .
Not play ( you've probably canceled your sub , if you haven't then you're as much a problem as the Dev's you rage against )
Play another game. ( although you'd you have us believe that they are rotted ancient p.o.s games according to your analogy )
Fund your own game and develop it according to your beliefs/theories and desires. ( this is after all a free market ? )
The above are all valid options , The apparent ( and I use the term apparent success of this game , because it's to early to honestly call it one ) success of SW:ToR is due in large part to one factor more then any other . It's Star Wars , and for no other reason people will be drawn to it to try it. If were any other IP , it would not have been successful on this scale. Look at STO , which has many similarities , less content and is just a very poorly done version comparitively speaking . Star Trek while popular doesn't approach the level of exposure that Lucas has built for Star Wars.
Also keep in mind that the Dev was the creator and and designer of KoTOR , and this is an extension of that experience. That experience is highly obvious and evident.
Also keep in mind that present day MMO's all look to the future. ( WoW is a very different game now then from it's original release design and intent , the game has evolved . Not necessarily for the better , but to accomadate the market and the markets desires and expectations . Is it better , it's a matter of opinion . Mine is no , but that's mine ) Especially the last 4 years. Gaming sales numbers are dominated by console numbers for the most part . With a new generation of consoles expected from both Sony and M$ in the next couple of years , I would not be surprised that these games would be compatible on those systems . Hence the design philosophy and restrictions .
While I'm not a supporter of these designs and game play by any extent , I also do understand that everything has a cycle and certain things in fashion now , will be dropped in the future and sometimes the old, becomes fashionable. I also believe that evolution in the console industry will contribute to improvement in the MMO genre design and gameplay . We are currently in a cycle that is tied to the current generation of console player and his/her experience and preferences. My preferences lay with the previous generations experiencespreferences. The golden age if you want .
I am a gamer, and seeing as I am not a bar hopper, I have no problem mentioning it to the waitresses at the local resturant when I pick up a new title. Heck sometimes I get a club sandwich for a late night snack if I know I am gonna put in a major jam session, and when ordering one the other night, the one waitress labeled the box "Evan's late night snack".
Some really nice women work there. I am always discussing games/movies/kids/life as we know it everytime I am waiting on my take out order. It is the same for any business I frequent....they know I am a gamer. I cerntainly dont go out of my way to appear to be something I am not.
What I would never do, nor admit to it if I did would be to own up to a habit of bitching about a video game daily, on a message board, for months on end. What game you are playing can make for some general conversation. I wouldnt imagine those that have been complaing about things like TOR, or the changing of SWG, would ever do so in public. That is along the lines of Jerry Springer material if ya ask me.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
Hehe.
I wonder what's going to happen to all the hataz if SWTOR has 2m subs in July, then eventually up to maybe around 3 milion for a few years? Will their tiny minds be able to handle it? Won't they just explode?
My prediction since beta late 2010 is that this is going to easily be the second biggest "proper" Western MMO. Nothing can possibly catch WoW at this point, and even in decline it's still a monster. But I think SWTOR will perform very well.
I'm enjoying the heck out of it, anyway, especially since ability delay is now fixed for me. The forum entertainment is just icing on the cake.
Funnily enough though, in game, I very rarely hear unhappy folks. The atmosphere in-game (at least on Lord Calypho) is that of a happily humming MMO. People asking questions, answering, the occasional bit of shit-shooting, calls for groups, calls for members, etc. And, again, my subjective estimate is that numbers have actually gone slightly up. And the later levels are starting to fill in a bit too (Alderaan which a few weeks ago was the cut-off point from "lots of people teaming" to "not enough people on server to find teams". Now Alderaan is filling up and that cut-off point seems to be more like Balmorra.
No, this game is going to be good for the industry, like WoW was - it will reassure investors that MMO are worth investing in, and more people wlil make more MMOs, some of which are likely to be better than anything we've seen so far, or at the very least good in parts (and contributing to a market where there's something for everyone).
I think the surprising effect SWTOR is going to have on the industry is raising the bar for quest delivery in subsequent MMOs, as, a few years down the line, SWTOR fans will be looking for another MMO, and will no doubt haunt forums where they piss and moan about how the latest hype doesn't have any goddamn voice-acting!!!
I am allowed to play and enjoy games like SWTOR and WoW if I so desire.
I am also allowed to play and enjoy sandboxy-world-creating games if I so desire (if there were more).
It's not really that difficult.
Playing:SW:TOR
Played: A lot.
Beta tested: Freaking everything.
Looking forward to: Nothing.
GW2 is breaking away from the mold. Some may say TSW is as well, I don't know enough about it to judge. Titan is apparently going to offer something quite different from WOW.
But like it or not, WOW set the precedent for a massively successful theme park MMO. Many companies will follow that model until it dries up. SWTOR failing wouldn't have changed that, because the message would simply be not to release a subscription MMO that isn't ready to be released.
I hate the fact that some of my all time favorite TV shows got cancelled while crap shows get high ratings and continue forever. It's all about what is popular. Majority rules.
Hm...
So, basically what you like is a niche game. Most other people like something different from you, and so game developers, understandably, caters to the majority in order to make the most profit.
I think it's not that people don't like choice or variety, only in MMORPG industry. It's that the majority of people are getting sufficient variety to suit their taste.
As an analogy, I like reading fantasy novels. To someone who only like other genre, every new fantasy novel that comes out would seem like a clone of all previous ones. But to the fans, each are refreshing and fun enough. And asking these fans to stop reading those books so more writers would write about the niche genre that you like is not going to work.
I don't think your only option is to go to the extreme of making your own game. In theory, in a free market I believe the solution is to pay a premium to get what you like. If you can't get the economics of scale on your side, simply offer to pay more in order to make it worth the development team's time to make the game that you like. So perhaps indicate to the developers that there would be a significant number of people who would like to play a different kind of game, willing to pay extra ($50 per month or something like that). If you are not willing to pay the premium...well, you can always try to evangelize your kind of game and get more fans on your side. Other than that, tough, no one is saying the world is fair.
Saying a succesful big budget game is bad for the industry is ridiculous. if u want companies to spend money making mmo's every mmo succes no matter the style, thempark vs sandbox, or sandpark is good for the mmo industry.
If a company can spend 200 million as has been speculated and make a profit u will see more companies willing to spend and take a chance on big budget mmo's which is only good for gamers as a whole.
It means eventually a company will make your galaxies 2 type game or big budget sandbox that players seem to want. Not all companies are going to go the route of tor.
They will all go there own way and do there own things , sure most games copy mechanics but how many advance have been made in fps, or fighter game or even sports games mechanics. The truth is not alot, most games use the same style of mechanics as alot of games in there genre.
Tors success means big name companies with big budgets will continue to dip there toe into the mmo market and make there style of game and eventually some of them will make those big game changes so many here yearn for.
so no tor's success is not bad for the industry anymore then the success of eve of gw 2 or secret world will be bad for the genre.
I started reading this, and then I simply got a headache.
Just another "This game is wrong, it must die," thread, with absolute garbage reasoning. And OP calls the people playing it selfish because they enjoy it? PAH. He's selfish because he doesn't want others to like it.
I cant wait until GW2 and TSW releases so the bitching and whining moves to the newest thing, its always the same thing.
"bla bla bla < insert currently hyped mmo name > will be better bla bla bla < insert recently released mmo name > is bad we want more of X type"
It has been like this since WoW I doubt it will change at any point.
I like SwToR and can see the potential the game has for the next few years. I also am a person that has loved sandbox mmos in the past. My life has changed and I dont have the time I used to to sit down for hours on end to play a game. SwToR allows me to play when I'm able and not feel useless.
Would I have liked swtor to be swg2 ..... sure, am I endlessly disappointed....no.
I still would like to see a game that is an actual living breathing world that allows me to live within it. I would prefer scifi because i am sick of trolls and elves. There are game companies out there still making new styles and such but no one and I repeat no one has made anything innovative in the genre since the mmo market first began.
Some day someone will get the whole living breathing world thing and make a game that is truly that. Unti then I will enjoy playing swtor because at present it is what I enjoy.
I do sort of see what your saying op.
Let's apply the OP's logic to other industries, shall we?
"A successful rocket launch by NASA will be bad for the space industry"
"A successful comic book release will be bad for Marvel/D.C."
"A successful board game release will be bad for Hasbro"
This is the sort of innane logic we're left with in this country: If something is successful, it's a failure.
Bad for the industry not really the video game business is not much different than TV and the movies. How many pawn shows are on tv now since Pawn Stars was so successful? How many CSI's, NCI's, Law and Order shows do you have? Most of the time the orginal show is the one with the biggest audience and the rest are trying to take some share of that market.
What SWTOR is doing is carving out its section of the WoW market. I know some are going to say its nothing like WoW, blah, blah but it really offers the same core game with some twist. Bioware never claimed it to be something new and genre changing so I am really shocked by the shear volume of hate on most forums(it is not just here it is every game forum). All this shows there is still a market for these type of games, but not remotely close to the orginals success.
For me I realized a long time ago they are not making MMO's for me anymore, it was a hard thing for me to accept but it is the truth. For many who are really hyped up for GW2 I think they are going to be even more disappointed than they were with SWTOR.
You are not applying it correctly, I think. It is more "A successful conventional chemical-fuel rocket launch by NASA will be bad for the space industry, because now other types of propulsion technology (solar sails, nuclear, etc) will not get any serious look or funding by the higher ups since the old method still works well enough. A failure here may encourage more innovation/experimentation in the search for a next generation rocket engines and be better for the industry as a whole in the long run". As morbid as that sounds, I think he has a point there.
Of course, the other view points mentioned before, that a major failure will simply leave us with no funding whatsoever for anyone in the industry, is possible as well. I don't know enough about the investment climate in the mmo industry (or space industry) to say which is more likely.
Not sure if the point applies for comic or board games, since I'm not familiar with them, is anyone hurting for variety there? I may be able to make the same argument if there are.
I used to think SWTOR needed to do badly... but then I start to think of the list of upcoming MMOs. It really is going to be interesting. There are a lot of new games in early development that are vaslty different from the standard games on the market, but even the ones coming out this year are going to change things up a lot. I'm starting to see things in a more positive light now when it comes to the MMO genre, and it has absolutely nothing to do with the success or failure of SWTOR.
Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure.
This kind of ass-backwards thinking is something I've even be guilty of subscribing to myself at times, but it simply doesn't hold water, successful things do not hold back other things from being successful, if it has enough of the right stuff to be successful it will create it's own market.
Foo Fighters are successful, does their success stop other bands from becoming successful?...
Star Trek was successful (for most of it's lifetime anyway) didn't stop Stargate etc...
Pizza is successful, doesn't stop people eating Indian meals...
The more you leave the secluded mind-space of the rabid MMO- "fan" the less sound the convulted logic that got you there looks, it's all about perspective & when you sink into thinking like the OP, you've lost that perspective.
This reminds me when Warhammer Online AOR came out and had a successful launch and then WOW expansion came out
and wiped it clean. Well EA get ready to experience this again because later this year Guild Wars 2 is coming out. Now if an "expansion" can wipe out Warhammer online that requires a montly fee what will Guild Wars 2 do to SWTOR....Guild Wars 2 looks like a much better online experience than SWTOR and it's F2Play.....
I think SWTOR is at it's peak I don't think it will attract any more players than it has now and many have already started getting bored and are leaving.
I think the number one biggest attraction for this game was slapping the Star Wars Logo on it the lock in the fanatical cult following Star Wars has.
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