ME1 and especially ME2 are some of the greatest RPG's ever made.
You're joking...right?
No.
The truth may be puzzling. It may take some work to grapple with. It may be counterintuitive. It may contradict deeply held prejudices. It may not be consonant with what we desperately want to be true. But our preferences do not determine what's true.
story wise,ME 1&2 are awesome.Bioware created a very beautiful universe and the stories are marvelous.
Indeed BG2 is the best game i have ever player(RPG that is)and i believe its better than ME BUT since ME and BG are diferent genre its ok.One is sci-fi and the other is fantasy,i have 2 diferent games for 2 diferent genres.Its "super awesome" :P
As for NWN,i never really played that game,because it never drew me,i really dont know why.
And finally Skyrim.Skyrim is not a better RPG than ME,it is a better game BUT not because of the story...the only reason Skyrim is better in my opinion is because of its openess.The story part of Skyrim has quite a few holes and even the majority of players that love the game(me included)dont play the game for its story.
For me a good story goes way to far in a game.I dont care if the gameplay is good or bad,revolutionary or not.If the story is really good i will play it and love it.The only real way to make me not love it,is if the game punch you in the face with a god damn awfull gameplay and even then ill give it a try as long as the story worths it.
If Mass Effect is mediocre... please enlighten us on what games are superior.
I agree with OP - the quality of story in ME 1, in particular, is far superior to TOR.
Neverwinter nights and Baldurs gate 1 6 2. Sorry, but Bioware have lost a lot since 2001 and while ME1 isn´t a bad game it is nowhere near the old games that made BW huge in the first place.
Yeah totally agree the story inBG was one of the most awesome I've ever played through enjoyed the mess out of NN as well I think the stories they told earlier on may have had a bit more impact to them but I still tend to enjoy the stories they come up with the only one they really lost me with was DA2.
As far as TOR I'm enjoying most of the class stories only haven't played the imperial agent very far. Bh was fun for quite a while but right now is dragging a bit for meat around level 23 played the consular to about level 19 and am not really getting into that story at all but so far I've really enjoyed the Jedi Knight,Republic trooper, and smuggler.
BW stories don't hold the same impact they did when I first encountered them as a company but i think that has more to do with us having been there and done that they are still among the top developers for delivering a story in a game.
Mass Effect - Mediocre adventure game pretending to be an RPG
SWTOR - Brain dead linear RPG pretending to be a MMORPG
If Mass Effect is mediocre... please enlighten us on what games are superior.
I agree with OP - the quality of story in ME 1, in particular, is far superior to TOR.
Skyrim.
But regarding this thread, I said from the very beginning that SW:TOR is more a single player RPG than an MMORPG but as you accurately pointed out, it is inferior to other single player RPGs which in the end makes it what exactly?
*Sighs* I wish people would stop even trying to compare ES stories to any from BW no one plays ES games for the stories they play it for the open ended nature of the gameplay. I wouldn't argue with a persons assessment that any ES game is better to them than any partiular Bw game but to try to compare the companies for the story they deliver is kind of lunacy most ES games you can finish the actual story in twenty hours or less and Bethesda often treats the story as a huge afterthought (for good reason).
The very end of the story in ME1 as full Paragon.. the option you get when talking with Sarin you only get if full Paragon.... and what happens afterwards.
I have never been more "blown away" by a video game... and yes that is a pun if you know what I'm talking about, but seriously was one of the most amazing "omg I can't believe that just happened" moments i've ever had in 20+ years of gaming.
Yeah, that was certainly a great moment. The planet of Virmire all in itself was masterfully done in the first one. The dialogue with Wrex over the genophage was classic. You know he's 100% right in everything he is saying, but you have to convince him to betray his beliefs for the sake oft he mission, and that mission actually matters. Then there's "the choice." Very rarely in a game do you really reflect on a choice long after it has been made. But if you actually invested the time into ME, you can't look at your ship the same way again after it.
And yeah, KOTOR3 would've been a lot better. Revan was far too compelling a character to end his story the way they did. Especially after KOTOR2. I know, it was Obsidian, but for a game as buggy as it was, man was it compelling in the story! I know his story "continues" in a sense in TOR, but it really really really stretches things to the point when even in a fantasy game, I'm left going "WTF." The same with the whole "Sith Emperor" idea. From the start I was skeptical it could happen, but was willing to see it go through. The character simply isn't "believable" in the sense of the Star Wars world.
ME1 and especially ME2 are some of the greatest RPG's ever made.
You're joking...right?
No.
A mediocre 'shooter/rpg-lite' like Mass Effect 1/2 amongst the 'greatest RPG's ever made'...
Do we laugh or cry?
I'd say out of PC RPG's, The original ME easily makes the top 10.
I don't know what to call Mass Effect 2. It is a shooter with story elements. I don't know if I can classify it as an "RPG", but it is easily one of the best games made in quite awhile. I'm hoping ME3 brings back some of the RPG elements of the first, and keeps the exceptional polish of the second. based on what i've read, that is what the game does.
Mass Effect - Mediocre adventure game pretending to be an RPG
SWTOR - Brain dead linear RPG pretending to be a MMORPG
If Mass Effect is mediocre... please enlighten us on what games are superior.
I agree with OP - the quality of story in ME 1, in particular, is far superior to TOR.
Skyrim.
But regarding this thread, I said from the very beginning that SW:TOR is more a single player RPG than an MMORPG but as you accurately pointed out, it is inferior to other single player RPGs which in the end makes it what exactly?
*Sighs* I wish people would stop even trying to compare ES stories to any from BW no one plays ES games for the stories they play it for the open ended nature of the gameplay. I wouldn't argue with a persons assessment that any ES game is better to them than any partiular Bw game but to try to compare the companies for the story they deliver is kind of lunacy most ES games you can finish the actual story in twenty hours or less and Bethesda often treats the story as a huge afterthought (for good reason).
I was responding in regards to RPGs. Skyrim is a superior RPG to Mass Effect 2 because the premise behind RPGs is to allow you to play a role and I feel I can do that much better in the open ended Skyrim world than the one on-rails in ME 2. RPGs, imo, is about creating your own story, not finishing a dev. developed story.
So yeah the story in ME 2 is great but in regards to being an RPG, Skyrim is simply superior.
imo, that is. I just found the ME universe and setting more appealing than the SW one. Regarding singleplayer games, yeah, obviously singleplayer thing better than MMORPG's, but TOR 'singleplayer'/questing experience > 'singleplayer'/questing experience of other MMO's
Again, imo ofcourse.
As for the combat mechanics, crafting and PvP of TOR, that's kinda subjective thing, personally I found the crafting mechanics more appealing than the regular MMO crafting, the combat more engaging than what I did in Aion, Rift and LotrO, - although AoC and TERA combat again surpasses all those others - but different strokes for different people.
As for ME - Skyrim comparisons, Skyrim gameplay mechanics > ME gameplay mechanics, for the obvious reasons.
However, ME universe & setting > Skyrim world & setting
The ME story and setting in which it takes place is simply more epic than Skyrim's, and surpasses that of most other games. Personally I consider it on par with Halo and Half Life story wise, but the world of ME feels more fleshed out and with more depth and detail to it than that of Halo and Half Life.
Mass Effect - Mediocre adventure game pretending to be an RPG
SWTOR - Brain dead linear RPG pretending to be a MMORPG
If Mass Effect is mediocre... please enlighten us on what games are superior.
I agree with OP - the quality of story in ME 1, in particular, is far superior to TOR.
Skyrim.
But regarding this thread, I said from the very beginning that SW:TOR is more a single player RPG than an MMORPG but as you accurately pointed out, it is inferior to other single player RPGs which in the end makes it what exactly?
*Sighs* I wish people would stop even trying to compare ES stories to any from BW no one plays ES games for the stories they play it for the open ended nature of the gameplay. I wouldn't argue with a persons assessment that any ES game is better to them than any partiular Bw game but to try to compare the companies for the story they deliver is kind of lunacy most ES games you can finish the actual story in twenty hours or less and Bethesda often treats the story as a huge afterthought (for good reason).
This, kind of. I love in Skyrim to run around aimlessly killing stuff and exploring, but all of a sudden when you get bored of it there's absolutely nothing to the game. First time when I heard that there's dragons involved in Skyrim long before the luanch, I had "played" half of the story content. Next time I hear a fantasy game is coming with dragons heavily involved in the story I'm going to cry.
In ME's I get really dragged into the story and I cant wait to see what happens next, I absolutely love the dialog and the story and in ME2 the combat was great too (even though there was no point in removing some features of the game) BUT when it comes to open exploring etc, there's really none.
I dont think either is better, both have their equally good positives in my books, only superior game would be the combination of both for me. If you love a good story ME wins, if you love open world, ES wins.
ME1 and especially ME2 are some of the greatest RPG's ever made.
You're joking...right?
No.
A mediocre 'shooter/rpg-lite' like Mass Effect 1/2 amongst the 'greatest RPG's ever made'...
Do we laugh or cry?
Cry? Many people regard ME/ME2 very highly.. perhaps your opinions just.. differ. Seems no matter what movie / game / restaurant etc.. we talk about people will always like things to varying degrees. Get used to it.
Hell, somebody above rated Neverwinter Nights and Baldurs Gate better than ME... now the BG games.. I can see where theyre coming from.. but NWN? The game was so linear.. with basically 4 routes to do in whatever order.. I could never really lose myself in the story. Guess that other person saw it differently.
Personally I think ME series has a great storyline. It isn't exactly sandbox or freeform, which some people have a preference for.. but as a single player game thats just fine for me. On the contrary, SWTOR is an MMO and therefore i'd prefer it to be more sandbox and less semi-linear story driven. I thought the whole point of MMO's was to engage with a community and I dont see how the ME style storytelling helps with this.
Still a decent rpg, i actually unsubed from CrapTOR and started ME 1 again, since clearly i have more fun in this game. And KOTOR 1 humilates both of these games.
So i agree with the OP, even tho i think ME 2 sucked ass, because they dumbed it down, and ME 3 oh god, i dont want to know.
They tried with SWTOR but it is just too tough to bring that kind of rpg story to an mmo. I do agree they probably would have been better off just making KOTOR 3+ rather than an mmo.
Today I finally played the demo of ME3... my review its awesome is superior to ME2 in every way and you know ME2 only got game of the year everywhere.
The 15 min intro is just the best intro I saw never. If you are in that things be ready for a huge drop in players in KOTOR after the 6.
I for sure will be playing ME3 at least during all the month.
Same here.
Who knows, taking a month break from TOR might be worth it. But yeah, I'll be living on the Normandy for awhile.
Funny thing is, I am playing ME2 right now, including all the add-on packs. Outside of for some reason crashing a lot more (maybe my vid card is just getting old, since I almost never crashed when I originally played), I found all the add on packs very well done. Even arrival, which I really didn't like from a paragon perspective, no doubt there was a nicely developed story, and the writing was worlds better.
Shadow Broker I loved. I loved the little touch they put at the end of the pack, which gave you a massive gaze into the world that was Mass Effect, and had some genuine humor. TOR's writers aren't as creative as these guys were. They built a compelling world with a great story.
I thought the Shadow Broker DLC was the best of them all, great story and good adventure in it, but what do you mean with that little touch at the end of it?
Also, for Draciil, what was it that made ME3 better than ME2?
I will say that the Mass Effect universe is much more interesting to me than Star Wars.
If anything, I wish they would have made an mmo in the ME universe. They would not be able to make that game with standard tab target mmo combat though. The game they made wouldn't work with switching out the IP for Mass Effect.
Also, for Draciil, what was it that made ME3 better than ME2?
A little early for that comparison yet don't you think?
I'm also of the camp that much prefers the Mass Effect universe to Star Wars. Mass Effect has that Babylon 5 vibe to it, which was a series that I loved.
Personally I think BW are 'deterioating'. I prefered ME1 to 2 (except for the planetary bollocks) and DA1 to 2 on most levels, including story telling. Don't get me wrong I think they are (where?) a great developer but they seem to be getting stale. Stories are becoming more cliched, choices are becoming more and more black and white (always where to a degree).
Still there single player games have always had great production values. Having said that they have not produced a really 'new' single player game in ages they simply apply 'the forumla' with a bit more polish and slickness. I will play ME3 without question depending on that I might have to start questioning whether I get BW games on faith especially after TOR which did not bring the production values from there single player games to their MMO.
I thought the story of ME1 was just awesome... start to finish.
I thought the overall story of ME2 was a pretty meh turn of events... just didn't have the same epic feel for me (human/reaper-hybrid = dumb). of coures, all the planets and little sub-stories were great.
We're also talking about vastly different levels of maturity in the content. TOR is for ages 12-14-ish... ME is aimed at 18+.
I thought the Shadow Broker DLC was the best of them all, great story and good adventure in it, but what do you mean with that little touch at the end of it?
Also, for Draciil, what was it that made ME3 better than ME2?
Also, for Draciil, what was it that made ME3 better than ME2?
A little early for that comparison yet don't you think?
I'm also of the camp that much prefers the Mass Effect universe to Star Wars. Mass Effect has that Babylon 5 vibe to it, which was a series that I loved.
I get what you're trying to say with too early, but the guy that I was asking it of said he played the demo and to him ME3 > ME2. So it got me curious what exactly were the things that did it for him.
Originally posted by fadis
We're also talking about vastly different levels of maturity in the content. TOR is for ages 12-14-ish... ME is aimed at 18+.
I'm with you in that the ME universe has a different vibe and atmosphere to it than the SW universe, a setting that I personally like more. But I disagree on the maturity range of TOR being 12-14 and ME 18+. I mean, you might as well say that the SW universe and movies are also for kids while a scifi like Blade Runner is for 18+, or that Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit are accessible for kids while a Game of Thrones is more mature. While it might be true that SW and Tolkien's Middle Earth are more accessible for kids and have less adult themes, they're more like 12+ upwards, for kids as well as adults enjoyable. And in the same line with TOR, I'd say with themes like torture, graphical violence and casual sex it has more adult themes to it than shown in MMO's as an Aion and LotrO and such. imo ofcourse.
@smh_a lot: based on a 30 min demo; better graphics, more expressive characters in cutscenes, harder combat, return of the interesting companions, more weapons and more variability of weapons, a bit more complex leveling system.
I didn't played the multiplayer part of the game yet.
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The truth may be puzzling. It may take some work to grapple with. It may be counterintuitive. It may contradict deeply held prejudices. It may not be consonant with what we desperately want to be true. But our preferences do not determine what's true.
Carl Sagan-
A mediocre 'shooter/rpg-lite' like Mass Effect 1/2 amongst the 'greatest RPG's ever made'...
Do we laugh or cry?
story wise,ME 1&2 are awesome.Bioware created a very beautiful universe and the stories are marvelous.
Indeed BG2 is the best game i have ever player(RPG that is)and i believe its better than ME BUT since ME and BG are diferent genre its ok.One is sci-fi and the other is fantasy,i have 2 diferent games for 2 diferent genres.Its "super awesome" :P
As for NWN,i never really played that game,because it never drew me,i really dont know why.
And finally Skyrim.Skyrim is not a better RPG than ME,it is a better game BUT not because of the story...the only reason Skyrim is better in my opinion is because of its openess.The story part of Skyrim has quite a few holes and even the majority of players that love the game(me included)dont play the game for its story.
For me a good story goes way to far in a game.I dont care if the gameplay is good or bad,revolutionary or not.If the story is really good i will play it and love it.The only real way to make me not love it,is if the game punch you in the face with a god damn awfull gameplay and even then ill give it a try as long as the story worths it.
Yeah totally agree the story inBG was one of the most awesome I've ever played through enjoyed the mess out of NN as well I think the stories they told earlier on may have had a bit more impact to them but I still tend to enjoy the stories they come up with the only one they really lost me with was DA2.
As far as TOR I'm enjoying most of the class stories only haven't played the imperial agent very far. Bh was fun for quite a while but right now is dragging a bit for meat around level 23 played the consular to about level 19 and am not really getting into that story at all but so far I've really enjoyed the Jedi Knight,Republic trooper, and smuggler.
BW stories don't hold the same impact they did when I first encountered them as a company but i think that has more to do with us having been there and done that they are still among the top developers for delivering a story in a game.
*Sighs* I wish people would stop even trying to compare ES stories to any from BW no one plays ES games for the stories they play it for the open ended nature of the gameplay. I wouldn't argue with a persons assessment that any ES game is better to them than any partiular Bw game but to try to compare the companies for the story they deliver is kind of lunacy most ES games you can finish the actual story in twenty hours or less and Bethesda often treats the story as a huge afterthought (for good reason).
Yeah, that was certainly a great moment. The planet of Virmire all in itself was masterfully done in the first one. The dialogue with Wrex over the genophage was classic. You know he's 100% right in everything he is saying, but you have to convince him to betray his beliefs for the sake oft he mission, and that mission actually matters. Then there's "the choice." Very rarely in a game do you really reflect on a choice long after it has been made. But if you actually invested the time into ME, you can't look at your ship the same way again after it.
And yeah, KOTOR3 would've been a lot better. Revan was far too compelling a character to end his story the way they did. Especially after KOTOR2. I know, it was Obsidian, but for a game as buggy as it was, man was it compelling in the story! I know his story "continues" in a sense in TOR, but it really really really stretches things to the point when even in a fantasy game, I'm left going "WTF." The same with the whole "Sith Emperor" idea. From the start I was skeptical it could happen, but was willing to see it go through. The character simply isn't "believable" in the sense of the Star Wars world.
I'd say out of PC RPG's, The original ME easily makes the top 10.
I don't know what to call Mass Effect 2. It is a shooter with story elements. I don't know if I can classify it as an "RPG", but it is easily one of the best games made in quite awhile. I'm hoping ME3 brings back some of the RPG elements of the first, and keeps the exceptional polish of the second. based on what i've read, that is what the game does.
I was responding in regards to RPGs. Skyrim is a superior RPG to Mass Effect 2 because the premise behind RPGs is to allow you to play a role and I feel I can do that much better in the open ended Skyrim world than the one on-rails in ME 2. RPGs, imo, is about creating your own story, not finishing a dev. developed story.
So yeah the story in ME 2 is great but in regards to being an RPG, Skyrim is simply superior.
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imo, that is. I just found the ME universe and setting more appealing than the SW one. Regarding singleplayer games, yeah, obviously singleplayer thing better than MMORPG's, but TOR 'singleplayer'/questing experience > 'singleplayer'/questing experience of other MMO's
Again, imo ofcourse.
As for the combat mechanics, crafting and PvP of TOR, that's kinda subjective thing, personally I found the crafting mechanics more appealing than the regular MMO crafting, the combat more engaging than what I did in Aion, Rift and LotrO, - although AoC and TERA combat again surpasses all those others - but different strokes for different people.
As for ME - Skyrim comparisons, Skyrim gameplay mechanics > ME gameplay mechanics, for the obvious reasons.
However, ME universe & setting > Skyrim world & setting
The ME story and setting in which it takes place is simply more epic than Skyrim's, and surpasses that of most other games. Personally I consider it on par with Halo and Half Life story wise, but the world of ME feels more fleshed out and with more depth and detail to it than that of Halo and Half Life.This, kind of. I love in Skyrim to run around aimlessly killing stuff and exploring, but all of a sudden when you get bored of it there's absolutely nothing to the game. First time when I heard that there's dragons involved in Skyrim long before the luanch, I had "played" half of the story content. Next time I hear a fantasy game is coming with dragons heavily involved in the story I'm going to cry.
In ME's I get really dragged into the story and I cant wait to see what happens next, I absolutely love the dialog and the story and in ME2 the combat was great too (even though there was no point in removing some features of the game) BUT when it comes to open exploring etc, there's really none.
I dont think either is better, both have their equally good positives in my books, only superior game would be the combination of both for me. If you love a good story ME wins, if you love open world, ES wins.
Cry? Many people regard ME/ME2 very highly.. perhaps your opinions just.. differ. Seems no matter what movie / game / restaurant etc.. we talk about people will always like things to varying degrees. Get used to it.
Hell, somebody above rated Neverwinter Nights and Baldurs Gate better than ME... now the BG games.. I can see where theyre coming from.. but NWN? The game was so linear.. with basically 4 routes to do in whatever order.. I could never really lose myself in the story. Guess that other person saw it differently.
Personally I think ME series has a great storyline. It isn't exactly sandbox or freeform, which some people have a preference for.. but as a single player game thats just fine for me. On the contrary, SWTOR is an MMO and therefore i'd prefer it to be more sandbox and less semi-linear story driven. I thought the whole point of MMO's was to engage with a community and I dont see how the ME style storytelling helps with this.
Still a decent rpg, i actually unsubed from CrapTOR and started ME 1 again, since clearly i have more fun in this game. And KOTOR 1 humilates both of these games.
So i agree with the OP, even tho i think ME 2 sucked ass, because they dumbed it down, and ME 3 oh god, i dont want to know.
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ME series >>>> ToR
The 15 min intro is just the best intro I saw never. If you are in that things be ready for a huge drop in players in KOTOR after the 6.
I for sure will be playing ME3 at least during all the month.
I agree 100% with the OP.
They tried with SWTOR but it is just too tough to bring that kind of rpg story to an mmo. I do agree they probably would have been better off just making KOTOR 3+ rather than an mmo.
Same here.
Who knows, taking a month break from TOR might be worth it. But yeah, I'll be living on the Normandy for awhile.
Funny thing is, I am playing ME2 right now, including all the add-on packs. Outside of for some reason crashing a lot more (maybe my vid card is just getting old, since I almost never crashed when I originally played), I found all the add on packs very well done. Even arrival, which I really didn't like from a paragon perspective, no doubt there was a nicely developed story, and the writing was worlds better.
Shadow Broker I loved. I loved the little touch they put at the end of the pack, which gave you a massive gaze into the world that was Mass Effect, and had some genuine humor. TOR's writers aren't as creative as these guys were. They built a compelling world with a great story.
Also, for Draciil, what was it that made ME3 better than ME2?If anything, I wish they would have made an mmo in the ME universe. They would not be able to make that game with standard tab target mmo combat though. The game they made wouldn't work with switching out the IP for Mass Effect.
Maybe some day they will do it.
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A little early for that comparison yet don't you think?
I'm also of the camp that much prefers the Mass Effect universe to Star Wars. Mass Effect has that Babylon 5 vibe to it, which was a series that I loved.
Personally I think BW are 'deterioating'. I prefered ME1 to 2 (except for the planetary bollocks) and DA1 to 2 on most levels, including story telling. Don't get me wrong I think they are (where?) a great developer but they seem to be getting stale. Stories are becoming more cliched, choices are becoming more and more black and white (always where to a degree).
Still there single player games have always had great production values. Having said that they have not produced a really 'new' single player game in ages they simply apply 'the forumla' with a bit more polish and slickness. I will play ME3 without question depending on that I might have to start questioning whether I get BW games on faith especially after TOR which did not bring the production values from there single player games to their MMO.
I thought the story of ME1 was just awesome... start to finish.
I thought the overall story of ME2 was a pretty meh turn of events... just didn't have the same epic feel for me (human/reaper-hybrid = dumb). of coures, all the planets and little sub-stories were great.
We're also talking about vastly different levels of maturity in the content. TOR is for ages 12-14-ish... ME is aimed at 18+.
Shadow Broker was an excellent DLC.
A little early for that comparison yet don't you think?
I'm also of the camp that much prefers the Mass Effect universe to Star Wars. Mass Effect has that Babylon 5 vibe to it, which was a series that I loved.
I get what you're trying to say with too early, but the guy that I was asking it of said he played the demo and to him ME3 > ME2. So it got me curious what exactly were the things that did it for him.
I'm with you in that the ME universe has a different vibe and atmosphere to it than the SW universe, a setting that I personally like more. But I disagree on the maturity range of TOR being 12-14 and ME 18+. I mean, you might as well say that the SW universe and movies are also for kids while a scifi like Blade Runner is for 18+, or that Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit are accessible for kids while a Game of Thrones is more mature. While it might be true that SW and Tolkien's Middle Earth are more accessible for kids and have less adult themes, they're more like 12+ upwards, for kids as well as adults enjoyable. And in the same line with TOR, I'd say with themes like torture, graphical violence and casual sex it has more adult themes to it than shown in MMO's as an Aion and LotrO and such. imo ofcourse.I didn't played the multiplayer part of the game yet.
Reason why ME is lot better, there is no fat, white haired, glass eyed nerd called George Lucas breathing heavily behind dev team. Freedom!!!