Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Sigh. So, GW2 is shaping up to be WoW 2 in many ways.
This discussion has been closed.
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Comments
@OP
That was a well-written original post, though it featured 2 paltry examples. Not only are those features relatively minor but they are also completely standard for the genre, not just WoW. GW2 does not have an obligation to be unique and innovative with every single feature, just for the sake of being unique and innovative. They have an obligation to make the best game possible according to the vision they have.
Not only that, but neither of those examples even accurately supported your point. The death penalty in WoW was notorious for being the most mild of its generation--and GW2's is looking to be even more mild. Yet you appear to feel it's too extreme? It doesn't matter how many times you have to pay. It only matters how much you have to pay total. As long as the total price isn't steep, it will be an utterly insignificant death penalty. Concerning the rate at which mobs are killed in WoW, it hardly takes five people several minutes to bring one down. Most mobs die within seconds when soloed. Nor are your observations in GW2 apt. In most videos I've seen, there are persistent assaults by hordes of enemies, each using different abilities.
Except Archage will be a niche game and not appeal to the masses, which is what companies look for when thry invest money. It looks like a really cool game...I'm not bashing it...but for a game to really have an impact on the genre, it will need to get a lot of subs and make their company a lot of money. PvP or sandbox centric games have not proved to do so yet.
You can still level up with quests.
However, it has 0 instancing, and the PVE is so tied to the PVP that it may be too "hardcore" for some players.
But isn't this what GW2 is doing? something different instead of trying to cash in with a generic wow clone only to merge servers 3 months later?
Both games are innovating in many ways, one more than the other.
Who cares if the soccer mom doesn't want a game with freedom to do anything you want? those people shouldn't even be playing MMOs in the first place, what they want is called single player RPGs, but it seems that they love to pay a monthly sub.... so... enjoy i guess.You guys have to realise that throwing around a bunch of words you made up yourself, doesnt say anything about the game. Everyone and their mother made up their own definition of sandbox or themepark and as long as there is consensus reached about the definition its utter bullshit.
The whole sandbox vs themepark drivel atm is retarded.
Don't act butthurt because GW2 isn't a sandbox, UO is a sandbox, SWG was a sandbox, EvE is a sandbox, ArcheAge is a sandbox.
GW2 is a themepark with a lot of freedom in some ways, and less freedom in other ways (mists... the place i go "when i want to PVP" ugh)
Just because some people don't have a clue about what a sandbox means doesn't change a thing."Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time."
otacu
Neither of those things make GW2 WoW 2.0. Armor durability and I have no idea where he pulled the combat complaint from.
Stay on topic please. Do not personally attack other users.
So linear progression = Themepark?
So I start off in leather, I die to a rat cus my sword skill is 10
I level my black smithing, its now 40, I have ring mail armor, and my swords skill is 40, I kill a rat, and a lizzard man! whoot!
Then I go home, craft myself some plate mail, and some awesome new hally, get my swords skill capped, now I'm killing demons.
UH O I SEE PROGRESSION IN MY SANDBOX!
Thats all games, themepark and sandbox
I guess my post was too difficult for you. If you read more carefully you would understand that I dont care either way if GW2 meets someone's personal sandbox definition criteria.
I never would have called GW2 a sandbox MMO anyway. The OP didnt either. So someone derailed this thread and its sandbox vs themepark all over again.
And about those games you mentioned, you see the same bloody sandbox vs themepark discussions (except maybe UO). Why, because there is never agreement about the definition of the word sandbox. This is what makes the whole discussion about whether a MMO is a sandbox FUCKING POINTLESS!
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Um... do you have a clue what you are talking about? Are you the type that would literally compare a game like Modern Warfare 3 and say its an direct rip off of Doom? I'm sorry but if you want to compare stuff at least have something that has remotely some relavence to what your comparing it too. Sure I can see you trying to say Rift is WoW 2.0 (even though that statement itself is total BS as well) but to compare something like GW2 your basically making it clear to you every MMO is identical. Not to mention all your points are just bland and really aren't anything that you could consider making a game "WoW" don't even go about doing that.
Just take a step back, take a deep breath, and realize that comparing something so vaguely to something else doesn't work. Runes of Magic is perhaps the biggest thing you could call a WoW clone (which btw, to get that title takes an extreme amount of effort to copy the game in every day possible) could even be compared as its own entity. Really try and look at something beyond the mob mentality. "_____ is like WoW" and really look at it for its pros and cons. Take it apart and judge it as its own entity rather then trying desperately to compare it and link it to another game. You would be amazed at the vast collection of online games there are when you are not using stingy standerds at judging a game. Every game has faults and every game has its own design.
Death Penalty has been around since day 1. Way before WoW was spewing its putrid garbage unto the MMO genre. All MMO's are carbon copies of each other with a slight tweak here and there. WoW is EQ, simplied. The only thing WOW "invented" or made popular was the stupid idea of making pvp gear so people would stop crying about dying too fast. This has ruined many games actually not helped. I doubt this game with be a wow clone but of course it will have similarities it is an MMOrpg after all.
I think the PvP emphasis might be the main issue. I think sandbox features are a lot more mainstream than people realize, but PvP/RPGs are not. Wasn't long ago that even 9 out of 10 players never even PvPed in shooters, like UT2004, and I wonder about the current numbers for top-selling shooters like BF3 or MW3. I wouldn't be surprised if a staggering percentage don't actually go online and PvP at all, considering these games don't even have much of a single-player side.. and its a lot easier in a shooter, where its just so much easier to jump in and out, anonymously and without commiting to anything.
So anyhow, yeah, not sure how well AA will really do, but I'm not sure how forced their PvP is, or if they're considering different ruleset servers or what. In games like DAOC and Aion, I think the PvP was limited enough to help their popularity rather than hurt it. Even in EVE, the PvP can be almost avoided completely, if that's how the player wants to play. If AA is too much of an unfettered gankfest like some of these indie sandbox games though, it will cripple its potential to make much of a splash in the genre.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
that is my point
People are defining the game genre's wrong.
Its not about the type of progression, its about the TYPES of progression that makes a game.
For instance, TSW has no levels, only skill system.
VERY sandboxy you might say.
Oh wait, its a very linear progression style for their maps and instances and they have end game style raiding etc.
then we look at UO, look the areas are laid out to where hard mobs are together and easy mobs are together, much like Themeparks. I'll go into the dungeon of Shame, oh look the monsters are clearly harder in here than outside.
This is also linear progression.
Yeah there is lots of quest grinds and raiding in GW2. It is World of Charrcraft get it right!
Grim Dawn, the next great action rpg!
http://www.grimdawn.com/
LOL @ OP
If anything the death system is wayyy too easy on players.
- The downed system makes it harder to die - why are you complaining? lol
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
You failed to include a POSITIVE selection on your Poll. Seems to you that voting against GW2 is fine, but if we disagree we have to explain our selection?
Your post is obsolete. Bye
First off... in WoW, since when is there a "downed" system at all? Not everyone can revive you, even for a limited number of times in WoW. In WoW, you die, all your armor/weapons equipped take a durability hit, as well as when you fight, and will break eventually. In GW2, if a piece of gear breaks from death, and you don't take a durability hit from simply fighting, then it's different from WoW. If they're forcing you to pay for a teleport after death as well as breaking your gear, they're being harsher than WoW, and are trying to make death have a real impact... so don't die, and it's all good. In WoW, you don't have to pay to revive at a nearby graveyard and run back - although the option to revive at the graveyard for money and worse duability hit is there.
You failed on number 1, sir.
As for number 2... what fun would it be if you grouped with a ton of people and everything died in two hits? WoW didn't invent this system, and it's been going on for so many years prior to WoW.
What you're saying is that it's like an "MMO". Which is what it is.
Another fail, sir.
Call me when you know what you're talking about.
I have to agree with you on this one.
Calling GW2 themepark is kinda unfaif when people are saying that SWTOR is also themepark, it would be like saying that Mass Effect 2 and Skyrim are RPGs.Or saying that Deus Ex: Human Revolution and Call of Duty 3 are shooters.
Yeah.. maybe they are, but one has much more depth and freedom.
I think that after so many years of WoW clones (quests, gear treadmille, instances) the word Themepark is almost like an insult, lol."Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time."
otacu
Gw2 looks about as close to WOW as
Halo looks close to COD modern warfare.
Gear's of war look's like Uncharted
Dawn of WAR look's like Starcraft 3
Skyrim look's like Kingdom's of Amular
I can go on...............>.>
GW2 is about as unique in comparison to WOW as you can get without it being a different genre entirely.
u have no idea what you are talking about. i played both gw2 and wow, they are no where near similar to each other. to honest with you, i think the only game you have ever played long term is wow. for that you don't get any recognition that your an mmoplayer. imo people who has only played wow, doesn't have enough experience in gaming to view their points out there at all. why? because wow is just 1 single mmo, and only people i recognize who can view their opinions are people who played many mmo, or people who has played old school mmo until now. for example, ffxi everquest, or even older mmo gates to heaven. ya i bet you don't even know what gates to heaven is kid. anyways your voice of opinion has been overuled, simply because you have no experience but wow. so ya, in reality, play some more mmos before you voice your opinion. try playing everquest, gates to heaven, ffxi ragnorak online, and many other mmos from old school to present, because atm you are just another wow player who says wow clone wow clone
Don't think the OP realized how alone on this one he was. Sorry OP, I just don't see the issue nor the comparison.
it's a simple solution, he has only played wow in his whole mmo career, and considerd himself as an mmo player. but from my point of view he is just another person who talks about wow 24/7. and if he did play other newer mmos, he would be ingame talking about the comparison of wow to that game. i tell this to every person who has played wow and only wow, that they don't have enough experience in their mmo career to voice their opinion, because wow is just 1 single mmo. ya it was successful, but learn the history of other mmo mechanics before you compare.
How in heavens name did this thread get to become a discussion of what is a themepark and what is a sandbox. And why are people so black and white? As far as i can see a great deal of games that are claimed to be sandboxes are not complete sandboxes. Theres always a middleground. Thats why people nowdays are using terms like sandpark and themebox. We need more terms to define our games aparently since this two are not enough eitther.
Isn't that the point? I would think many would say SWTOR is the epitome of a themepark done poorly on many levels outside the storyline portion whereas in theory this game could highlight what a true themepark should contain from exploration to content to...etc.
In theory I say for those that will jump all over me. I have no idea if the game will deliver on these levels.
It doesn't mean one or the other is not a themepark. Simply brings into question their quality and overall entertainment value.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.