I don't mean to say that this type of system has never been done before, but that I have never seen it implemented in this way. Nothing is quite like it.
It's a creative system as well as being innovative. It may be a variation of other similar systems, but it's unique enough that I would say there is nothing quite like it out there.
It seems to be just an experience point pool that gets spread across all your characters. So no, that's not new. It's just given a fancy name. Just like how LotRO had "phasing" (instancing) before WoW.
I don't mean to say that this type of system has never been done before, but that I have never seen it implemented in this way. Nothing is quite like it.
It's a creative system as well as being innovative. It may be a variation of other similar systems, but it's unique enough that I would say there is nothing quite like it out there.
That's like saying that every feature of every game is innovative just because they're slightly different.
I don't mean to say that this type of system has never been done before, but that I have never seen it implemented in this way. Nothing is quite like it.
It's a creative system as well as being innovative. It may be a variation of other similar systems, but it's unique enough that I would say there is nothing quite like it out there.
I agree. I think the closest system to this one would be City Of Heroes "Veteran's Rewards" system. The big difference her though is that SWTOR is actually rewarding how much you play instead of how long you maintain an active account for.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
Slapping the "MMO" title on a singleplayer game with multiplayer tacked on to justify charging a sub fee is innovative.
Oh, wait. Bill Roper did that years ago with Hellgate: London.
Legacy system is not innovative in any way, shape, or form. Doing content to unlock new content has been around since the beginning of games.
The word "innovation" does not apply to ANY part of SWToR.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.- -And on the 8th day, man created God.-
Question to all the mmo experts and proven game designers. Is the legacy system innovative and why?
No it is not innovative. It is a reuse of remorting from MUDS from back in the 1980s.
I don't know what mud you played but when I remorted a characted the only character that benefited from it was that character. And you had to start from level 1. Some let you dual class but alot didn't but its only one character. Please explain how this is like a remorting system.
Then there is no more innovation left to be had in MMOs, and you guys can all stop bitching about any games lack of it.
Seriously.
There's plenty of innovation out there. It's just not coming from WoW clones. Why would a game that's gone out of its way to copy everything from one game, innovate? WoW never innovated anything.
Vanguard had some fantastic innovations. Sadly they removed some in beta when they couldn't finish them. But, I've never seen before, and have yet to see, anything quite like Vanguard's diplomacy system.
Then there is no more innovation left to be had in MMOs, and you guys can all stop bitching about any games lack of it.
Seriously.
Tell me what's innovative about it?
All it is, is a mechanic to TRY to entice you to want to re-roll, since playing alts is the only real content SWToR has to offer people who don't feel like grinding out raids or PvP.
And no, it doesn't mean there will never be innovation in future mmos just because EAware couldn't manage any in their's, that's the most /fail argument I've heard yet from a SWToR fan.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.- -And on the 8th day, man created God.-
Then there is no more innovation left to be had in MMOs, and you guys can all stop bitching about any games lack of it.
Seriously.
There's plenty of innovation out there. It's just not coming from WoW clones. Why would a game that's gone out of its way to copy everything from one game, innovate? WoW never innovated anything.
Vanguard had some fantastic innovations. Sadly they removed some in beta when they couldn't finish them. But, I've never seen before, and have yet to see, anything quite like Vanguard's diplomacy system.
I bought Vanguard at launch and played it at launch (for a while). If you're referring to that "gleen" thing, that was the biggest turn off for me in the game.
I can understand your view, and there are games that have innovated on a large scale out there.
I don't think anyone would claim that SWTOR is one of those games, I sure wouldn't. However, there are areas where SWTOR displays creativity and innovation.
I think the legacy system is one of those areas. At the very least it's definitely not something "copied" from WoW. To say that SWTOR copied "everything from WoW" just shows how little you know about this game. There are many things wow has that TOR doesn't have. There are also several things TOR has that wow doesn't.
Honestly, I don't know why I even am having this discussion. I value fun over innovation every time. If it's fun to me, that's all that matters.
Then there is no more innovation left to be had in MMOs, and you guys can all stop bitching about any games lack of it.
Seriously.
There's plenty of innovation out there. It's just not coming from WoW clones. Why would a game that's gone out of its way to copy everything from one game, innovate? WoW never innovated anything.
Vanguard had some fantastic innovations. Sadly they removed some in beta when they couldn't finish them. But, I've never seen before, and have yet to see, anything quite like Vanguard's diplomacy system.
I bought Vanguard at launch and played it at launch (for a while). If you're referring to that "gleen" thing, that was the biggest turn off for me in the game.
Gleen? I'm not sure what that is. I'm talking about the fully independent diplomacy system you could level 1-50 to get into the meat of the game's story, and change up the game's towns, having people assassinate and poison one another, spreading rumors, ect.
Then there is no more innovation left to be had in MMOs, and you guys can all stop bitching about any games lack of it.
Seriously.
Tell me what's innovative about it?
All it is, is a mechanic to TRY to entice you to want to re-roll, since playing alts is the only real content SWToR has to offer people who don't feel like grinding out raids or PvP.
And no, it doesn't mean there will never be innovation in future mmos just because EAware couldn't manage any in their's, that's the most /fail argument I've heard yet from a SWToR fan.
So show me a MMO that came out before Tor and has this. Cause all your saying is you don't like it. Your personal likes/dislikes have nothing to do with innovation.
Sorry I can't quote you on the mobile site but I wasn't referring to is the broad generalization you made.
"Legacy system is not innovative in any way, shape, or form. Doing content to unlock new content has been around since the beginning of games."
Any game could be referred to in this way. Every game system has this in some form or another, by your own admission.
I'm not saying there will be no innovation because Bioware failed at it. You are misrepresenting my comment. I'm saying by your definition there will be none.
Then there is no more innovation left to be had in MMOs, and you guys can all stop bitching about any games lack of it.
Seriously.
Tell me what's innovative about it?
All it is, is a mechanic to TRY to entice you to want to re-roll, since playing alts is the only real content SWToR has to offer people who don't feel like grinding out raids or PvP.
And no, it doesn't mean there will never be innovation in future mmos just because EAware couldn't manage any in their's, that's the most /fail argument I've heard yet from a SWToR fan.
So show me a MMO that came out before Tor and has this. Cause all your saying is you don't like it. Your personal likes/dislikes have nothing to do with innovation.
Shared experience across multiple characters triggered from your main character isn't new. DAoC and CoH did things like this. CoH was especially close, giving you new classes after you've hit level 50 on one character.
Then there is no more innovation left to be had in MMOs, and you guys can all stop bitching about any games lack of it.
Seriously.
There's plenty of innovation out there. It's just not coming from WoW clones. Why would a game that's gone out of its way to copy everything from one game, innovate? WoW never innovated anything.
Vanguard had some fantastic innovations. Sadly they removed some in beta when they couldn't finish them. But, I've never seen before, and have yet to see, anything quite like Vanguard's diplomacy system.
I bought Vanguard at launch and played it at launch (for a while). If you're referring to that "gleen" thing, that was the biggest turn off for me in the game.
Gleen? I'm not sure what that is. I'm talking about the fully independent diplomacy system you could level 1-50 to get into the meat of the game's story, and change up the game's towns, having people assassinate and poison one another, spreading rumors, ect.
It has been such a long time since I dabbled in Vanguard so I could be completely off. I just remembered when it launched, a player had quests to go talk to "Joe Schmoe" in town and "gleen" with him. If I remember correctly, it was some sort of diplomacy thing. I thought this was what you were talking about. If not, my bad. For the record, for some reason, I just hate the word gleen. I dunno why, I just do. Not offering excuses and expect no consolation.
Question to all the mmo experts and proven game designers. Is the legacy system innovative and why?
No it is not innovative. It is a reuse of remorting from MUDS from back in the 1980s.
I don't know what mud you played but when I remorted a characted the only character that benefited from it was that character. And you had to start from level 1. Some let you dual class but alot didn't but its only one character. Please explain how this is like a remorting system.
It's like one not that it's the same as it. There is a difference.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Then there is no more innovation left to be had in MMOs, and you guys can all stop bitching about any games lack of it.
Seriously.
Tell me what's innovative about it?
All it is, is a mechanic to TRY to entice you to want to re-roll, since playing alts is the only real content SWToR has to offer people who don't feel like grinding out raids or PvP.
And no, it doesn't mean there will never be innovation in future mmos just because EAware couldn't manage any in their's, that's the most /fail argument I've heard yet from a SWToR fan.
So show me a MMO that came out before Tor and has this. Cause all your saying is you don't like it. Your personal likes/dislikes have nothing to do with innovation.
Shared experience across multiple characters triggered from your main character isn't new. DAoC and CoH did things like this. CoH was especially close, giving you new classes after you've hit level 50 on one character.
I haven't played either one of those games and google didn't do me any favors when tring to read about the features. The only real thing I found was CoH veteran rewards but thats for time spent subbed which really isn't like legacy system at all.
Now when I set up my family tree my Sith Inquisitor (which in turns of leveling will be my 3rd 50 he's not there yet) will be a 'father' to both my bounty hunter and my agent, that way they can both shoot force lighting. Of course with limitations.
Your saying both these games have something where I can do this? Because saying the legacy system is a shared exp bar doesn't really do it justice.
Then there is no more innovation left to be had in MMOs, and you guys can all stop bitching about any games lack of it.
Seriously.
Tell me what's innovative about it?
All it is, is a mechanic to TRY to entice you to want to re-roll, since playing alts is the only real content SWToR has to offer people who don't feel like grinding out raids or PvP.
And no, it doesn't mean there will never be innovation in future mmos just because EAware couldn't manage any in their's, that's the most /fail argument I've heard yet from a SWToR fan.
So show me a MMO that came out before Tor and has this. Cause all your saying is you don't like it. Your personal likes/dislikes have nothing to do with innovation.
Shared experience across multiple characters triggered from your main character isn't new. DAoC and CoH did things like this. CoH was especially close, giving you new classes after you've hit level 50 on one character.
Actually, the Legacy System is nothing like CoH's Epic Classes, which NCsoft basically nerfed to nothing anyways. It is more like the "Veteran's Rewards" system CoH had. The big differences are that instead of rewarding active subscription time, SWTOR is instead rewarding actual play time. That alone to most people would be concidered a MAJOR improvement. Then you add the fact that this system works across the board for all characters, which helps all characters, but does not necessarily encourage alt characters.
Improvements and putting your own twist on something IS innovation if the systems are a worthwhile addition to a game (in other words makes it more interesting to the majority). If you don't believe so then I guess in your eyes there has been no innovations in automobiles since Ford originally started mass production since pretty much everything was nothing more than improvements on previous systems.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
Then there is no more innovation left to be had in MMOs, and you guys can all stop bitching about any games lack of it.
Seriously.
Tell me what's innovative about it?
All it is, is a mechanic to TRY to entice you to want to re-roll, since playing alts is the only real content SWToR has to offer people who don't feel like grinding out raids or PvP.
And no, it doesn't mean there will never be innovation in future mmos just because EAware couldn't manage any in their's, that's the most /fail argument I've heard yet from a SWToR fan.
So show me a MMO that came out before Tor and has this. Cause all your saying is you don't like it. Your personal likes/dislikes have nothing to do with innovation.
Shared experience across multiple characters triggered from your main character isn't new. DAoC and CoH did things like this. CoH was especially close, giving you new classes after you've hit level 50 on one character.
I haven't played either one of those games and google didn't do me any favors when tring to read about the features. The only real thing I found was CoH veteran rewards but thats for time spent subbed which really isn't like legacy system at all.
Now when I set up my family tree my Sith Inquisitor (which in turns of leveling will be my 3rd 50 he's not there yet) will be a 'father' to both my bounty hunter and my agent, that way they can both shoot force lighting. Of course with limitations.
Your saying both these games have something where I can do this? Because saying the legacy system is a shared exp bar doesn't really do it justice.
That is essentially what it is though. It's a shared xp bar that gives you access to other classes. In COH once you leveled up one character you unlocked classes and race combinations for other characters. In DAoC you could boost new characters and there was even a system in place where you could have other class abilities. The difference is there's no shared last name, I suppose.
Then there is no more innovation left to be had in MMOs, and you guys can all stop bitching about any games lack of it.
Seriously.
Tell me what's innovative about it?
All it is, is a mechanic to TRY to entice you to want to re-roll, since playing alts is the only real content SWToR has to offer people who don't feel like grinding out raids or PvP.
And no, it doesn't mean there will never be innovation in future mmos just because EAware couldn't manage any in their's, that's the most /fail argument I've heard yet from a SWToR fan.
So show me a MMO that came out before Tor and has this. Cause all your saying is you don't like it. Your personal likes/dislikes have nothing to do with innovation.
Shared experience across multiple characters triggered from your main character isn't new. DAoC and CoH did things like this. CoH was especially close, giving you new classes after you've hit level 50 on one character.
Actually, the Legacy System is nothing like CoH's Epic Classes, which NCsoft basically nerfed to nothing anyways. It is more like the "Veteran's Rewards" system CoH had. The big differences are that instead of rewarding active subscription time, SWTOR is instead rewarding actual play time. That alone to most people would be concidered a MAJOR improvement. Then you add the fact that this system works across the board for all characters, which helps all characters, but does not necessarily encourage alt characters.
Improvements and putting your own twist on something IS innovation if the systems are a worthwhile addition to a game (in other words makes it more interesting to the majority). If you don't believe so then I guess in your eyes there has been no innovations in automobiles since Ford originally started mass production since pretty much everything was nothing more than improvements on previous systems.
No, creative yes but not innovative. Innovation is doing something new, not doing something done before in a new way. I'll give EAware credit for being creative, but not for being innovative.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.- -And on the 8th day, man created God.-
in·no·va·tion/?in??v?SH?n/ Noun: 1. The action or process of innovating. 2. A new method, idea, product, etc: "technological innovations".
Notice the word "method" in the definition. As in a new method of doing something.
I'd say that the legacy system falls under the definition as a new method/product. Unless of course you can think of another game system that does exactly the same thing as the legacy system....
In fact, by that definition the whole game is innovation as a new product. There are no other Star Wars story base themepark MMOs put there. That might be kind of a stretch, but I think a lot of people misuse the word innovation a bit.
Legacy is both a new method and a new product. Innovation.
Great. Now even dictionaries are dumbed down for the masses.
Excuse me while I go to the bathroom amd innovate a new way to catch a turd.
Expect pre-orders to be available soon.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.- -And on the 8th day, man created God.-
Comments
I don't mean to say that this type of system has never been done before, but that I have never seen it implemented in this way. Nothing is quite like it.
It's a creative system as well as being innovative. It may be a variation of other similar systems, but it's unique enough that I would say there is nothing quite like it out there.
Shadow's Hand Guild
Open recruitment for
The Secret World - Dragons
Planetside 2 - Terran Republic
Tera - Dragonfall Server
http://www.shadowshand.com
It seems to be just an experience point pool that gets spread across all your characters. So no, that's not new. It's just given a fancy name. Just like how LotRO had "phasing" (instancing) before WoW.
That's like saying that every feature of every game is innovative just because they're slightly different.
I agree. I think the closest system to this one would be City Of Heroes "Veteran's Rewards" system. The big difference her though is that SWTOR is actually rewarding how much you play instead of how long you maintain an active account for.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
Slapping the "MMO" title on a singleplayer game with multiplayer tacked on to justify charging a sub fee is innovative.
Oh, wait. Bill Roper did that years ago with Hellgate: London.
Legacy system is not innovative in any way, shape, or form. Doing content to unlock new content has been around since the beginning of games.
The word "innovation" does not apply to ANY part of SWToR.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
-And on the 8th day, man created God.-
I don't know what mud you played but when I remorted a characted the only character that benefited from it was that character. And you had to start from level 1. Some let you dual class but alot didn't but its only one character. Please explain how this is like a remorting system.
Then there is no more innovation left to be had in MMOs, and you guys can all stop bitching about any games lack of it.
Seriously.
Shadow's Hand Guild
Open recruitment for
The Secret World - Dragons
Planetside 2 - Terran Republic
Tera - Dragonfall Server
http://www.shadowshand.com
Shadow's Hand Guild
Open recruitment for
The Secret World - Dragons
Planetside 2 - Terran Republic
Tera - Dragonfall Server
http://www.shadowshand.com
There's plenty of innovation out there. It's just not coming from WoW clones. Why would a game that's gone out of its way to copy everything from one game, innovate? WoW never innovated anything.
Vanguard had some fantastic innovations. Sadly they removed some in beta when they couldn't finish them. But, I've never seen before, and have yet to see, anything quite like Vanguard's diplomacy system.
ST: Let me see your identification.
OB1: You don't need to see his identification.
ST: We don't need to see his identification.
OB1: These aren't the droids you're looking for.
ST: These aren't the droids we're looking for.
OB1: He can go about his business.
ST: You can go about your business.
OB1: Move along.
ST: Move along. Move along.
Nothing to see here. Move along. Move along.
Tell me what's innovative about it?
All it is, is a mechanic to TRY to entice you to want to re-roll, since playing alts is the only real content SWToR has to offer people who don't feel like grinding out raids or PvP.
And no, it doesn't mean there will never be innovation in future mmos just because EAware couldn't manage any in their's, that's the most /fail argument I've heard yet from a SWToR fan.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
-And on the 8th day, man created God.-
I bought Vanguard at launch and played it at launch (for a while). If you're referring to that "gleen" thing, that was the biggest turn off for me in the game.
I can understand your view, and there are games that have innovated on a large scale out there.
I don't think anyone would claim that SWTOR is one of those games, I sure wouldn't. However, there are areas where SWTOR displays creativity and innovation.
I think the legacy system is one of those areas. At the very least it's definitely not something "copied" from WoW. To say that SWTOR copied "everything from WoW" just shows how little you know about this game. There are many things wow has that TOR doesn't have. There are also several things TOR has that wow doesn't.
Honestly, I don't know why I even am having this discussion. I value fun over innovation every time. If it's fun to me, that's all that matters.
Shadow's Hand Guild
Open recruitment for
The Secret World - Dragons
Planetside 2 - Terran Republic
Tera - Dragonfall Server
http://www.shadowshand.com
Gleen? I'm not sure what that is. I'm talking about the fully independent diplomacy system you could level 1-50 to get into the meat of the game's story, and change up the game's towns, having people assassinate and poison one another, spreading rumors, ect.
So show me a MMO that came out before Tor and has this. Cause all your saying is you don't like it. Your personal likes/dislikes have nothing to do with innovation.
Sorry I can't quote you on the mobile site but I wasn't referring to is the broad generalization you made.
"Legacy system is not innovative in any way, shape, or form. Doing content to unlock new content has been around since the beginning of games."
Any game could be referred to in this way. Every game system has this in some form or another, by your own admission.
I'm not saying there will be no innovation because Bioware failed at it. You are misrepresenting my comment. I'm saying by your definition there will be none.
Shadow's Hand Guild
Open recruitment for
The Secret World - Dragons
Planetside 2 - Terran Republic
Tera - Dragonfall Server
http://www.shadowshand.com
Shared experience across multiple characters triggered from your main character isn't new. DAoC and CoH did things like this. CoH was especially close, giving you new classes after you've hit level 50 on one character.
It has been such a long time since I dabbled in Vanguard so I could be completely off. I just remembered when it launched, a player had quests to go talk to "Joe Schmoe" in town and "gleen" with him. If I remember correctly, it was some sort of diplomacy thing. I thought this was what you were talking about. If not, my bad. For the record, for some reason, I just hate the word gleen. I dunno why, I just do. Not offering excuses and expect no consolation.
It's like one not that it's the same as it. There is a difference.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
I haven't played either one of those games and google didn't do me any favors when tring to read about the features. The only real thing I found was CoH veteran rewards but thats for time spent subbed which really isn't like legacy system at all.
Now when I set up my family tree my Sith Inquisitor (which in turns of leveling will be my 3rd 50 he's not there yet) will be a 'father' to both my bounty hunter and my agent, that way they can both shoot force lighting. Of course with limitations.
Your saying both these games have something where I can do this? Because saying the legacy system is a shared exp bar doesn't really do it justice.
Actually, the Legacy System is nothing like CoH's Epic Classes, which NCsoft basically nerfed to nothing anyways. It is more like the "Veteran's Rewards" system CoH had. The big differences are that instead of rewarding active subscription time, SWTOR is instead rewarding actual play time. That alone to most people would be concidered a MAJOR improvement. Then you add the fact that this system works across the board for all characters, which helps all characters, but does not necessarily encourage alt characters.
Improvements and putting your own twist on something IS innovation if the systems are a worthwhile addition to a game (in other words makes it more interesting to the majority). If you don't believe so then I guess in your eyes there has been no innovations in automobiles since Ford originally started mass production since pretty much everything was nothing more than improvements on previous systems.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
That is essentially what it is though. It's a shared xp bar that gives you access to other classes. In COH once you leveled up one character you unlocked classes and race combinations for other characters. In DAoC you could boost new characters and there was even a system in place where you could have other class abilities. The difference is there's no shared last name, I suppose.
No, creative yes but not innovative. Innovation is doing something new, not doing something done before in a new way. I'll give EAware credit for being creative, but not for being innovative.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
-And on the 8th day, man created God.-
Noun:
1. The action or process of innovating.
2. A new method, idea, product, etc: "technological innovations".
Notice the word "method" in the definition. As in a new method of doing something.
I'd say that the legacy system falls under the definition as a new method/product. Unless of course you can think of another game system that does exactly the same thing as the legacy system....
In fact, by that definition the whole game is innovation as a new product. There are no other Star Wars story base themepark MMOs put there. That might be kind of a stretch, but I think a lot of people misuse the word innovation a bit.
Legacy is both a new method and a new product. Innovation.
Shadow's Hand Guild
Open recruitment for
The Secret World - Dragons
Planetside 2 - Terran Republic
Tera - Dragonfall Server
http://www.shadowshand.com
Great. Now even dictionaries are dumbed down for the masses.
Excuse me while I go to the bathroom amd innovate a new way to catch a turd.
Expect pre-orders to be available soon.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
-And on the 8th day, man created God.-