Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
SWTOR will finally be the death of WoW clones
This discussion has been closed.
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Comments
The only way something or someone truly dies, is if people stop talking about it / them and forget it / them.
'See you next week'
Sure they were, they just didn't have anywhere else to go after they ragequit.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
That is where I was going with my question. If you have not played any of the major titles, how can you form a solid and legitmate opinion of what they are? I get you are entitled to your opinion and as MMORPG mods will tell you , they encourage any type of comments on their board, even if it has nothing to do with the topic, but seriously if you have never played a major title then how do you have a dog in this fight?
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
Yes! This will be the death of the most successful and popular MMO genre! This will be the death of the only MMO genre that makes money! This will be the death of the only MMO genre that has had millions of constant players!
No company will ever want to make an MMO again after Star Wars The Old Republics lame numbers!!!! Who wants 2+ million boxsets sold and 1.7 million players in the first three months when you can have SANDBOX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WoW clone genre will die a quick DEATH!
No wait, it won't. End of discussion, lets move on.
It didn't have 1.7m subscribers at 3 months, that was at 31st December when people were locked in the free month and was in the Q3 financial report, the statements after that referred to that figure and then made unsubstantiated generalised comments for which EA are not legally accountable. All anecdotal evidence strongly points to falling subscriber numbers, the only question is how many have left the ship.This is not entirely true, one reason for population dropping immediately after the launch is because a ton of people who already knew that they dont like the game bought it. I believe this has become a norm in the mmorpg business by now, you could see on this site alone a lot of haters screaming about the game before launch, who then went and gave their money at EA, yelled some more how crap the game is at the launch and then quit it. It's not the haters only, there's also the frog gamers jumping from game to game regardless of genre and particularly with this title there's non-mmorpg playing people who were just curious about the Star Wars title.
What we have seen is only the post launch tremors, and these kinds of threads are still premature, the true nature of things will be revealed by the end of the year with some steep competition launching and a few patches that will show everyone the direction of this game. There's not a whole lot going on in this game besides the class stories, for a player like me who values open world a lot more than instanced content, but I can see why some other kind of player would like this game, especially if Bioware will pump in patches like the 1.2 every few months.
Also it's stupid to say that WoW kind of games are done when WoW clearly proves by its subscriber numbers that it's in fact the most popular mmorpg by far in comparison to any other. I dont agree with the industry that everyone should try to make their own copy to get a slice of that success, but I guess the stock owners feel that they actually should do just that, because numbers dont lie, right? Perhaps some of these "norms" will expand a little with the coming of GW2 or some other "savior" title.
For similar reasons, I've come to think that the larger companies developing or backing MMORPGs have taken a completely different slant on them.
If you take a step back and look at many large MMO releases over the past few years, you can notice a trend, which TOR is a perfect illustration of. It seems they are developing MMOs with absolutely no intention of significant long-term development or support, in the traditional fashion that MMOs have followed.
For all intents and purposes, they're treating the development of them as they would any single player game, only they tag on a subscription fee and throw out an update/patch from time to time to keep people subscribed as they wait on new content.
I just cannot fathom why else developers would choose to deveop a game in a genre that is grounded in long-term, ongoing adventure, and then develop it to where players can get to level cap in a week, burn through all the content, and then get bored and quit, other than because it's not the long-term revenue they're interested in, but that initial rush through the doors.
It seems that all their emphasis is on that initial launch and box sales, and everything after that is gravy. All they have to do is enough to keep the more loyal players paying. At some point, when it makes sense to their bottom line, they'll switch to F2P, congratulate themselves as though they've just bestowed some great gift on the world by doing so, and continue to milk players that way.
One game/developer I will say that seems to maintain the more traditional "game first" approach is Trion with Rift. I haven't played much of it, as it just wasn't my cup of tea, but in following its updates and seeing how much they are focused on growing, maintaining and expanding the game it really seems like Trion are one of the few MMO developers these days whose passion seems to be about the game, not just the bottom line; you know, that crazy concept that if you create a solid product that people like, they'll happily pay for it and you'll stay in business. This is in contrast to the newer "big business" model which seems to be "find enough ways to milk players while convincing them you're doing them a favor, and you'll make tons of money".
CDProjekt, the people behind The Witcher got it right when they said developers these days treat gamers like milking cows. That sums it up perfectly.
SWTOR must be doing well as even the haters are still posting their envy/hate threads. Until the threads die down to a minimum, it will be doing well.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
I honestly don't think this is going to be the last wow esque game. As long as wow is doing well there will be wow clones.
Yes I played SWTOR.
The real question is, how succesful would SWTOR be if it wasn't a Star Wars game?
Is the gameplay good enough on it's own merit?
This is incorrect. Though digital downloads undoubtedly increase margins, no MMO hopes cover all it costs from box sales - with the possible exception of guild wars. Developers typically get about $10 from a $50 box sale. TOR would need 20 million such sales to cover its rumored cost.
Know this guy's a bit far back, but i'm not going through the entire thread.
I don't REALLY think that a graphical style is any reason to completely put a game off the buy list; unless it's a hideous piece of software, that's a bit much. And I don't think it's really fair to try and compare the MMOs of modern times with a 2002 Dungeons & Dragons-ruleset program. They might as well be completely different genres. It's a bit difficult to get by, but RPG's of the current era have completely evolved from the tabletops.
When you're playing an MMO, you're getting a massive graphical improvement from those old games, as well as a generally easier-to-understand set of mechanics. Why is that so bad?
I'm really sick of the whole "There's a massive fanbase for X", or "Y would be a WoW-killer if it just had a chance".
There is no massive conspiracy waiting in the MMO playerbase.
There are no "sleeper-agent fans" waiting to convert once the X or Y is unleashed on the world.
I wouldnt call SWTOR a flop. I know i left after 3 months expecting less than i got. Endgame was terrible, just not a lot to do given that ilum was unplayable and then made worthless due to low turn out. I didnt enjoy endgame pve...all i had was hoping i got huttball since that was the only warzone i liked...
Everything else was stellar, however for a game that spent so much money on the pre-endgame leveling...which was phenominal....you leveld so quick. Every player is spending a small amount of time on their largest expenditure. Everyones camping out now int he afterthought, endgame, with several character at 50 wondering "what next" .
This certainly doesnt mark the end of the wow-park. It just hits home that fans of the genere dont care about anthing but endgame, so long as endgame comes fast.
Needless to say, lucas-arts can take a multi million dollar hit and not even break a sweat...lets not forget whos game this really is. However, now that bioware has a working mmorpg template to run with, perhaps they will learn where to devote funds, and not over do a voice over actors payday on parts of the game that players seek to rush through and avoid, and perhaps spend the big bucks on endgame mechanics, the thing these players are really interested in.
To further my point. How many of you would trudge through a 3 week lame leveling if endgame was incredible and would keep you entertained for 6-12 months with no new content? How many of you would rather have a well done leveling experience for 3 weeks then have to continually reroll alts since there wasnt a whole lot of engaging activites at endgame? We all know the answer.
My uneducated prediction is that lucas arts will throw more money fixing endgame, they may get it right eventually (granted i think large scale pvp is borked perminantly due to the hero engins inabilities) however by the time SWTOR gets the endgame it needs it will probably be too late to make this any type of major competator.
WoW fans are delusional to think that Star Wars fans are not more hardcore then them. Also my last count even Bioware is releasing content faster then Blizzard lol
i am happy to say I agree with the OP. We are finally seeing a time where none of the upcoming games are blatant WoW copies... Which is incredibly refreshing. WoW has made a huge impact on the genre and that will always remain, but at least the blatant copies have all been released.
2003-2011 in my mind = the dark age of MMOs.
Between Archeage, Planetside 2, and Guild Wars 2 we might actually have some stimulating fun in the next few years. :-)
Play as your fav retro characters: cnd-online.net. My site: www.lysle.net. Blog: creatingaworld.blogspot.com.
And it shows in the piss poor quality of their latest title. Speed of development does not a great game make.
...but, back on topic. I'm trying to fathom what would inspire a publishing house and its investors to adopt an attitude of, "We want them to drop the current game that they're playing to buy another version of the current game they're playing."
The whole, "We want another WoW! Clone it!" mentality baffles me.
People have invested time and money into WoW. If they're going to be lured away from that time and financial investment, you don't give them more of the same 'ol same 'ol, that's just ridiculous.
Do you borrow features that people have come to like? Of course. It's not like Blizzard started out with a plethora of original ideas when they made WoW--- they just took some good ideas (some that had already been implemented in other games) and enfolded them into something made by Blizzard.
But beyond some "features" (e.g. intuitive, easy-to-use interface, in-depth macro system, guild banks, dungeon finder tools, etc), the overall premise should be original, and the approach should try to be something people haven't seen before, not a direct rip-off of another game model with a new coat of paint.
The WoW clone mentality will continue up until the next big thing comes around and gets millions of people playing. It may be GW2 or something else, but that will be the new clone. Back in the day everything was an Everquest clone.
Fact of the matter is that a "fail" for some is still a success. Just because you don't like the game does not mean it is a failure. Realistically as long as the game is making money it will continue to produce content updates which means it is not a failure. EQ2, Rift, DCUO, LOTOR,SWTOR,ect all have something in common. They were all hyped a ton and still dissapointed some people who had unrealistic expectations. People still love these games and play them, and they all produce pretty frequent content updates (3-6 month range for most, 2-3 for one or two of them). Ironically enough one of the slowest updating MMOs lately has been WoW...the most successful.
Play what you enjoy. As long as you are having fun it really doesn't matter what constitutes as "failure" in some people's eyes. This especially applies to opinions coming from,quite frankly, the most jaded group of mmo players' website.
I do wonder what LA 's knee jerk reaction will be to TOR's falling numbers. If SWG's history tells us anything, we should be expecting something epic coming from them soon...under the guise of Bioware too.
Hah I didn't think about that. Hilarious. I wonder if LA will put the screws to them.
Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011
TOR wont be the end of Wow clones. Many if not all Wow clones have actually done worse than TOR and that never stopped anyone.
The only thing that stops Wow clones is a more successful game with another concept to copy. If GW2, Class 4, Titan or something else do really well they would start copying that instead.
</p
Whoa whoa, your logic is not welcome here sir .
lol except GW2 is another THEMEPARK that is CLONING everything it does from OTHER GAMES. It may not be a direct clone of wow, but its not something new or different.
All these types of threads show is that none of you amatuer CEO's and Development guru's know bugger all about running a successful business. Its like me claiming I can outsmart Sir Alex Ferguson at Football management. Though I might when I become manager of Arsenal FC.
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
You know if you keep on repeating something it doesn't eventually make it fact.
From Massively..
http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/03/09/star-wars-the-old-republic-subscription-numbers-stabilize-at-1/
Star Wars: The Old Republic subscription numbers stabilize at 1.7 million
by Matt Daniel on Mar 9th 2012 2:00PM
It's shaping up to be one hell of a good month for BioWare. If you consider the amount of money made by the launch of Mass Effect 3 and by the continued success of Star Wars: The Old Republic, the entire studio must be swimming in pools of gold coins a la Scrooge McDuck by now. At any rate, it would appear that Star Wars: The Old Republic's subscriber numbers have stabilized at about 1.7 million active subscribers.
It's also worth noting that, according to EA's John Riccitello, the "vast majority" of these active subscribers have already used their 30-day trials, which means most of those 1.7 million subscribers are shelling out $15 per month to play the game. It'll be interesting to see how these numbers change (or don't) in the coming months, but for the time being The Old Republic seems to be doing BioWare proud.
This is at the time of the article and hopefully they'll tells us again what the numbers are around the 2nd week of April and then we can see if there is a drop if they are silent about sub numbers then then we will certain know numbers are dropping. But we can also find out when EA release their quarterly financial report.
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
GW2 is indeed a themepark, I never said anything else. And most of the features do have been in other games in some form or another.
But stuff like changing out the quests for DEs have never been done before. The game is not a MMO made completely from scratch by starting at pen and paper RPGs and make it to a computer game all over again like WoDO but I never said it was.
All that does not matter for this argument, GW2 ain't a Wow clone and if the devs of new games clone it instead of Wow it would be the end of Wow clones.