Five years ago, I believe it was Time magazine that reported an article of the 6 billion dollar industry that was gold farming. This is when gold farming just became investigated all around. Then when people found all the illegal activities that surrounded gold farming, it became neccessary that alternatives were met.
We have seen how well the war on drugs has become. You just create a black market. So the only viable way is to create an open market and place layers of security where you can. You make a legal deterant. Sure, some people still make thier own ciggerattes and liquor, but its hardly profitable and more of a nusance than anything.
Game design for MMOs has changed significantly over the last few years. Back in the day, there was nothing but money and more powerful items. When gold buying first game around, you directly became more powerful buy buying gold. Games then implemented second and third tier currency to prevent gold from being as important. So the claims early in the day that it was for cheaters was true, it directly allowed you to buy items that were vastly more powerful than anything in the game. Also, dungeons had to be run some hundred times to get certain items, and when items are rare, that ads to the cheat factor. This unregulated gold market did nothing but auto inflate hte price of things.
6 years is a long time to look at something and figure out a method to both curb it and insure that this money goes to good use. Some companies chose the pay to win way. Which menat putting things in the auction house that were needed and forcing placers to spend real world money. This type of forcing gives the illusion that the game is free, but in order to do dungeons and raids, you NEED armor you can only enhance with items in the store or 100 to 200 runs in a specific dungeon.
The GW2 method is a different model. It would be equivalent to the way the US governtment regulates alcohol. First there are limits on the bonuses the items provide throughout the entire game. This devalues armor and equipment. You get slight advantage, but you are not instituted by the company the mentallity that you need to have something to do something. There are going to always be guilds and groups who will be numbers crunching. But the number crunching is so minute in Guild Wars, that only the die harders will care about everything. And the system is designed so that no one wil lexclude anyone based on a few percentage points.
So, with an overall change the the importance of equipment, you can now put things in an item shop that will provide non-game stat bonuses. XP, Coins received, Karma bonuses. You also price the items that use these fairly and evenly. You make a system that feels like I am saving time and not that I am returning time to normal. 90 minutes to level is phenomenal, considering most games. So long as Karma prices are done similar this works great.
The market is also regulated by a government. It's about as free as the US market. If things ever got crazy, the country can pump more money in, take money out ban things devalue others. It's a way to make sure that htere's a steady flow and its doing exactly as its designed.
So when did Real Money Trading become okay? When game design changed to prevent the cheating aspect of it and methods were created to better insure that money could not buy signifnicant amounts of time, but reasonable amounts of time.
+1, way to approach the situation with logic and research.
It is not nor will ever be ok with me, and that is ok because guess what GW2 fans, I am allowed to feel that way. ANET/NCSoft in my eyes are not any different the EA/Bioware in regards to maximizing profits, now we all know that is why they are in business. They want your money they could really give two craps about pre game support in the end they want your hard earned mony, the question you have to ask yourself is; Are you going to give it to them?
On top of it all they have balls to ask for a full price pre purchase to guarantee a spot in beta, I have never in my 12+ years of MMOs ever seen this done before. A $5 pre order maybe but full price to get into beta are you kidding me, then add the cash shop on top, yeah my spidey senses are tingeling something is not right here.
Originally posted by vitinho Looks pretty good, is good. . .
So are Big Macs...And when society as a whole adopts them as mainstream and consumes them daily in mass quantities, it creates a fat, lazy bloated unhealthy society who want to go buy more Big Macs rather then put in the time and effort to make a healthy meal.
You guys don't get it. It was accepted long ago that Gold Farmers ruined games.
If the government set up distribution centers where anyone could go and legally buy drugs , it would certainly hurt the drug dealers. But it would hurt society more.
So now instead of the RMT gold trading being limited to only those who have the balls to risk losing everything they worked for (Or paid for) Now the vast majority of players will be engaging in this.
Most of you have played both types of games with sanctioned RMT and games without it.
But how many of you had been playing a game for years that did not have it, suddenly implement it? And not the kind like in WoW but a real Item Shop with items that have in game effects.
I have. This is why I am so vocal. Right before my eyes, I watched how the cash shop impacted the economy. It seriously hurt peoples ability to go out and farm, it hurt people looking for groups, It hurt PVP.
The overall effect is it removes people from farming. That takes people out of all loops in the game.
Cash Shops launched from the start will have the similar effect, but instead of dragging the game down, they just prevent it from reaching it's potential.
How depressing, being apathetic is not the same as being realistic.
Rules are not there do prevent behaviour, they define a framework of what is acceptable. Punishment is used to enforce that doctrine.
RMT became acceptable because devs were naive as to the possible revenue that was being raked in by people breaking their rules. At that point they had a choice to make and instead of enforcing their laws they chose to change them and get in on the action. There is no excuse, they are companies and they are there to generate income, this is not brain surgery.
The long post a little bit above is not logic, real world situation doesn't apply, there is no comparison when the people breaking the laws are completely at your mercy, they can not hide and they have absolutely no recourse. Devs could easily have enforced their laws (and a for a while some did - much of the transient nature of vocation in the games industry doesn't help) but in the long run it worked out more profitable for them to hide behind a cloak of ineptitude. They portrayed themselves as victims while at the same time eyeing up the real prey - us and our wallets. And what do we do when we are getting mugged? It's displayed in this thread a lot, instead of being outraged, we played the victim and cowed down waiting to get mugged again, it's draining.
----- The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
The issue I see here for the most part is that as of right now the masses are enamoured with ANET and they can do no wrong in there eyes. They honestly need to wake up and say NO to the Cash Shop and the pre purchase full price tag to play in beta, both are wrong.
I would be willing to bet my next paycheck that if SWTOR announced this prior to launch that people would have been going insane over it, EA are whores, EA just wants your money etc etc etc, let alone if Blizz ever tried this.
So are Big Macs...And when society as a whole adopts them as mainstream and consumes them daily in mass quantities, it creates a fat, lazy bloated unhealthy society who want to go buy more Big Macs rather then put in the time and effort to make a healthy meal.
You guys don't get it. It was accepted long ago that Gold Farmers ruined games.
If the government set up distribution centers where anyone could go and legally buy drugs , it would certainly hurt the drug dealers. But it would hurt society more.
So now instead of the RMT gold trading being limited to only those who have the balls to risk losing everything they worked for (Or paid for) Now the vast majority of players will be engaging in this.
Most of you have played both types of games with sanctioned RMT and games without it.
But how many of you had been playing a game for years that did not have it, suddenly implement it? And not the kind like in WoW but a real Item Shop with items that have in game effects.
I have. This is why I am so vocal. Right before my eyes, I watched how the cash shop impacted the economy. It seriously hurt peoples ability to go out and farm, it hurt people looking for groups, It hurt PVP.
The overall effect is it removes people from farming. That takes people out of all loops in the game.
Cash Shops launched from the start will have the similar effect, but instead of dragging the game down, they just prevent it from reaching it's potential.
uh actually. I don't like Big Macs though I agree they look great! It's the special sauce. Not very special to me.
P.S. I know you're just using it as an analogy but
Originally posted by Melangel Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh
Originally posted by vitinho Looks pretty good, is good. . .
So are Big Macs...And when society as a whole adopts them as mainstream and consumes them daily in mass quantities, it creates a fat, lazy bloated unhealthy society who want to go buy more Big Macs rather then put in the time and effort to make a healthy meal. You guys don't get it. It was accepted long ago that Gold Farmers ruined games. If the government set up distribution centers where anyone could go and legally buy drugs , it would certainly hurt the drug dealers. But it would hurt society more. So now instead of the RMT gold trading being limited to only those who have the balls to risk losing everything they worked for (Or paid for) Now the vast majority of players will be engaging in this. Most of you have played both types of games with sanctioned RMT and games without it. But how many of you had been playing a game for years that did not have it, suddenly implement it? And not the kind like in WoW but a real Item Shop with items that have in game effects. I have. This is why I am so vocal. Right before my eyes, I watched how the cash shop impacted the economy. It seriously hurt peoples ability to go out and farm, it hurt people looking for groups, It hurt PVP. The overall effect is it removes people from farming. That takes people out of all loops in the game. Cash Shops launched from the start will have the similar effect, but instead of dragging the game down, they just prevent it from reaching it's potential. uh actually. I don't like Big Macs though I agree they look great! It's the special sauce. Not very special to me. P.S. I know you're just using it as an analogy but Yeah, I have to apologize, I should have considered that not everyone would like Big Macs. But I couldn't say Whoppers. Man, I eat those and they repeat on me for Hours. Wendy's is usually pretty good though.
I should have considered that not everyone would like Big Macs. But I couldn't say Whoppers. Man, I eat those and they repeat on me for Hours. Wendy's is usually pretty good though.
I will pretend you said wendy's to begin with!
Interesting when you think of it. It's rather like gaming and opinions and likes and dislikes no?
Originally posted by Melangel Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh
Yeah, I have to apologize, I should have considered that not everyone would like Big Macs. But I couldn't say Whoppers. Man, I eat those and they repeat on me for Hours. Wendy's is usually pretty good though.
I will pretend you said wendy's to begin with!
This is a perfect example of what happens in threads when people start talking crap without putting any thought or effort into their posts.
They end up getting called out on it ans then have to revise their original statement.
I hope my mistake can serve a a lesson to everyone reading this.
I should have considered that not everyone would like Big Macs. But I couldn't say Whoppers. Man, I eat those and they repeat on me for Hours. Wendy's is usually pretty good though.
I will pretend you said wendy's to begin with!
This is a perfect example of what happens in threads when people start talking crap without putting any thought or effort into their posts.
They end up getting called out on it ans then have to revise their original statement.
I hope my mistake can serve a a lesson to everyone reading this.
I don't think you were talking crap GeeTee. While I genuinely don't like Big Mac's I admit too I was trying to lighten the mood just a little. Seems every thread everywhere is turning into a battle for you know which game. There's nowhere to hide from it
EVE Online, World of Warcraft, Diablo 3 and Guild Wars 2 are AAA games that are now implementing legitimate forms of Real Money Trading. All four of these games now allow players to purchase gameplay-affecting items and boosts using real world currencies.
When did this become okay?
The above companies rationalize the introduction of RMT trading by touting that it prevents illegal RMT, hacking, scams, etc. However, these are NOT the reasons why RMT was banned in the first place.
RMT was banned because it provided in-game advantages for out-of-game resources. That is, RMT was considered cheating.
What happened to make these companies believe that main evil of RMT is hacking and scaming instead of the loss of the game's integrity? How did the paradigm shift so much that people actually stand for it now when you would have had internet riots if this happened only 6 years ago?
It wasn't ok when EVE did it, it wasn't ok when Blizzard did but for some reason it is suddenly ok when Anet did it.
Originally posted by fundayz EVE Online, World of Warcraft, Diablo 3 and Guild Wars 2 are AAA games that are now implementing legitimate forms of Real Money Trading. All four of these games now allow players to purchase gameplay-affecting items and boosts using real world currencies. When did this become okay? The above companies rationalize the introduction of RMT trading by touting that it prevents illegal RMT, hacking, scams, etc. However, these are NOT the reasons why RMT was banned in the first place. RMT was banned because it provided in-game advantages for out-of-game resources. That is, RMT was considered cheating. What happened to make these companies believe that main evil of RMT is hacking and scaming instead of the loss of the game's integrity? How did the paradigm shift so much that people actually stand for it now when you would have had internet riots if this happened only 6 years ago?
It wasn't ok when EVE did it, it wasn't ok when Blizzard did but for some reason it is suddenly ok when Anet did it. *rolls eyes*
Huge difference between EVE's PLEX and WoW's RMT. EVE is a pure sandbox. Currency in that game IS power. Plex is an outright purchase of power.
Nothing WoW sells can affect your character in game as far as the engine is concerned.(That was the case the last time I looked) Not one point in stats. Not one dps. not one point of health, not one copper, not 1% bonus to speed...Nothing.
Absolute pure 100% cosmetics or account services. The closest thing to Power WoW sells is a racial change if and when racial abilities are Imba.
EVE Online, World of Warcraft, Diablo 3 and Guild Wars 2 are AAA games that are now implementing legitimate forms of Real Money Trading. All four of these games now allow players to purchase gameplay-affecting items and boosts using real world currencies.
When did this become okay?
The above companies rationalize the introduction of RMT trading by touting that it prevents illegal RMT, hacking, scams, etc. However, these are NOT the reasons why RMT was banned in the first place.
RMT was banned because it provided in-game advantages for out-of-game resources. That is, RMT was considered cheating.
What happened to make these companies believe that main evil of RMT is hacking and scaming instead of the loss of the game's integrity? How did the paradigm shift so much that people actually stand for it now when you would have had internet riots if this happened only 6 years ago?
It wasn't ok when EVE did it, it wasn't ok when Blizzard did but for some reason it is suddenly ok when Anet did it.
*rolls eyes*
Huge difference between EVE's PLEX and WoW's RMT.
EVE is a pure sandbox. Currency in that game IS power. Plex is an outright purchase of power.
Nothing WoW sells can affect your character in game as far as the engine is concerned.
Not one point in stats. Not one dps. not one point of health, not one copper, not 1% bonus to speed...Nothing.
Absolute pure 100% cosmetics or account services. The closest thing to Power WoW sells is a racial change if and when recial abilities are Imba.
We are talking about allowing real money trading in game, what you can buy it with or not is another matter. I doubt most even care for where peopl are going to spend it, just the whole idea of money trading puts off people in general.
Originally posted by Melangel Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh
Originally posted by Melangel
Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh
Yeah, I have to apologize, I should have considered that not everyone would like Big Macs. But I couldn't say Whoppers. Man, I eat those and they repeat on me for Hours. Wendy's is usually pretty good though.
I will pretend you said wendy's to begin with!
This is a perfect example of what happens in threads when people start talking crap without putting any thought or effort into their posts. They end up getting called out on it ans then have to revise their original statement. I hope my mistake can serve a a lesson to everyone reading this. I don't think you were talking crap GeeTee. While I genuinely don't like Big Mac's I admit too I was trying to lighten the mood just a little. Seems every thread everywhere is turning into a battle for you know which game. There's nowhere to hide from it
No no, I got it, This last post I made, was also a joke.
Originally posted by fundayz EVE Online, World of Warcraft, Diablo 3 and Guild Wars 2 are AAA games that are now implementing legitimate forms of Real Money Trading. All four of these games now allow players to purchase gameplay-affecting items and boosts using real world currencies. When did this become okay? The above companies rationalize the introduction of RMT trading by touting that it prevents illegal RMT, hacking, scams, etc. However, these are NOT the reasons why RMT was banned in the first place. RMT was banned because it provided in-game advantages for out-of-game resources. That is, RMT was considered cheating. What happened to make these companies believe that main evil of RMT is hacking and scaming instead of the loss of the game's integrity? How did the paradigm shift so much that people actually stand for it now when you would have had internet riots if this happened only 6 years ago?
It wasn't ok when EVE did it, it wasn't ok when Blizzard did but for some reason it is suddenly ok when Anet did it. *rolls eyes*
Huge difference between EVE's PLEX and WoW's RMT. EVE is a pure sandbox. Currency in that game IS power. Plex is an outright purchase of power. Nothing WoW sells can affect your character in game as far as the engine is concerned. Not one point in stats. Not one dps. not one point of health, not one copper, not 1% bonus to speed...Nothing. Absolute pure 100% cosmetics or account services. The closest thing to Power WoW sells is a racial change if and when recial abilities are Imba.
We are talking about allowing real money trading in game, what you can buy it with or not is another matter. I doubt most even care for where peopl are going to spend it, just the whole idea of money trading puts off people in general.
The whole idea of RMT undermines why we play....to escape into a different world. This "I can bring it with me" mentality ruins it.
I hate all if it in any fashion. But for me, the breaking point is when I can buy one thing and convert it to something else of value in game.
EVE Online, World of Warcraft, Diablo 3 and Guild Wars 2 are AAA games that are now implementing legitimate forms of Real Money Trading. All four of these games now allow players to purchase gameplay-affecting items and boosts using real world currencies.
When did this become okay?
The above companies rationalize the introduction of RMT trading by touting that it prevents illegal RMT, hacking, scams, etc. However, these are NOT the reasons why RMT was banned in the first place.
RMT was banned because it provided in-game advantages for out-of-game resources. That is, RMT was considered cheating.
What happened to make these companies believe that main evil of RMT is hacking and scaming instead of the loss of the game's integrity? How did the paradigm shift so much that people actually stand for it now when you would have had internet riots if this happened only 6 years ago?
It wasn't ok when EVE did it, it wasn't ok when Blizzard did but for some reason it is suddenly ok when Anet did it.
*rolls eyes*
You lack reading comprehension. I am clearly NOT okay with ArenaNet implementing RMT in GW2. That is what spurred me to make this thread in the first place.
Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh
Huge difference between EVE's PLEX and WoW's RMT.
EVE is a pure sandbox. Currency in that game IS power. Plex is an outright purchase of power.
Nothing WoW sells can affect your character in game as far as the engine is concerned.(That was the case the last time I looked)
Not one point in stats. Not one dps. not one point of health, not one copper, not 1% bonus to speed...Nothing.
Absolute pure 100% cosmetics or account services. The closest thing to Power WoW sells is a racial change if and when racial abilities are Imba.
Are you not aware of the Guardian Cubs in World of Warcraft?
These cash-purchasable minipets are do not soul bind and can be sold for as much as 10k. These allow players to buy gold to max out crafts, purchase epic gear and expensive enchantments, etc (i.e. buy power).
Fortunately for the game, the cubs do not serve any real pupose unlike EVE's PLEX and GW2's Gems and thus the demand for them is kept in check.
EVE Online, World of Warcraft, Diablo 3 and Guild Wars 2 are AAA games that are now implementing legitimate forms of Real Money Trading. All four of these games now allow players to purchase gameplay-affecting items and boosts using real world currencies.
When did this become okay?
The above companies rationalize the introduction of RMT trading by touting that it prevents illegal RMT, hacking, scams, etc. However, these are NOT the reasons why RMT was banned in the first place.
RMT was banned because it provided in-game advantages for out-of-game resources. That is, RMT was considered cheating.
What happened to make these companies believe that main evil of RMT is hacking and scaming instead of the loss of the game's integrity? How did the paradigm shift so much that people actually stand for it now when you would have had internet riots if this happened only 6 years ago?
It wasn't ok when EVE did it, it wasn't ok when Blizzard did but for some reason it is suddenly ok when Anet did it.
*rolls eyes*
Huge difference between EVE's PLEX and WoW's RMT.
EVE is a pure sandbox. Currency in that game IS power. Plex is an outright purchase of power.
Nothing WoW sells can affect your character in game as far as the engine is concerned.(That was the case the last time I looked)
Not one point in stats. Not one dps. not one point of health, not one copper, not 1% bonus to speed...Nothing.
Absolute pure 100% cosmetics or account services. The closest thing to Power WoW sells is a racial change if and when racial abilities are Imba.
There is no inconsequential rl interference in mmo's, the whole principle is cosmetic.
----- The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
EVE Online, World of Warcraft, Diablo 3 and Guild Wars 2 are AAA games that are now implementing legitimate forms of Real Money Trading. All four of these games now allow players to purchase gameplay-affecting items and boosts using real world currencies.
When did this become okay?
The above companies rationalize the introduction of RMT trading by touting that it prevents illegal RMT, hacking, scams, etc. However, these are NOT the reasons why RMT was banned in the first place.
RMT was banned because it provided in-game advantages for out-of-game resources. That is, RMT was considered cheating.
What happened to make these companies believe that main evil of RMT is hacking and scaming instead of the loss of the game's integrity? How did the paradigm shift so much that people actually stand for it now when you would have had internet riots if this happened only 6 years ago?
It wasn't ok when EVE did it, it wasn't ok when Blizzard did but for some reason it is suddenly ok when Anet did it.
*rolls eyes*
You lack reading comprehension. I am clearly NOT okay with ArenaNet implementing RMT in GW2. That is what spurred me to make this thread in the first place.
No where i said you were ok with it. I am talking about GW2 fans in general who are tryign too hard to convince people that it is OK. Even though these same people were all up in arm against EVE and Blizzard. If anything i am on your side.
No where i said you were ok with it. I am talking about GW2 fans in general who are tryign too hard to convince people that it is OK. Even though these same people were all up in arm against EVE and Blizzard. If anything i am on your side.
Oh sorry I thought you were referring to me. I apologize ha ha.
Originally posted by fundayz Originally posted by Ankur
Originally posted by fundayz
EVE Online, World of Warcraft, Diablo 3 and Guild Wars 2 are AAA games that are now implementing legitimate forms of Real Money Trading. All four of these games now allow players to purchase gameplay-affecting items and boosts using real world currencies. When did this become okay? The above companies rationalize the introduction of RMT trading by touting that it prevents illegal RMT, hacking, scams, etc. However, these are NOT the reasons why RMT was banned in the first place. RMT was banned because it provided in-game advantages for out-of-game resources. That is, RMT was considered cheating. What happened to make these companies believe that main evil of RMT is hacking and scaming instead of the loss of the game's integrity? How did the paradigm shift so much that people actually stand for it now when you would have had internet riots if this happened only 6 years ago?
It wasn't ok when EVE did it, it wasn't ok when Blizzard did but for some reason it is suddenly ok when Anet did it. *rolls eyes*
You lack reading comprehension. I am clearly NOT okay with ArenaNet implementing RMT in GW2. That is what spurred me to make this thread in the first place.
Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh Huge difference between EVE's PLEX and WoW's RMT. EVE is a pure sandbox. Currency in that game IS power. Plex is an outright purchase of power. Nothing WoW sells can affect your character in game as far as the engine is concerned.(That was the case the last time I looked) Not one point in stats. Not one dps. not one point of health, not one copper, not 1% bonus to speed...Nothing. Absolute pure 100% cosmetics or account services. The closest thing to Power WoW sells is a racial change if and when racial abilities are Imba.
Are you not aware of the Guardian Cubs in World of Warcraft? These cash-purchasable minipets are do not soul bind and can be sold for as much as 10k. These allow players to buy gold to max out crafts, purchase epic gear and expensive enchantments, etc (i.e. buy power). Fortunately for the game, the cubs do not serve any real pupose unlike EVE's PLEX and GW2's Gems and thus the demand for them is kept in check.
Having been out of WoW for some time, I was not aware of such an item. As such, then WoW now falls under the gold selling banner in my book.
RMT is wrong. As someone who ran a Diablo 2 guild for 5 years, I find it to be a watermark statement that people like me... Diablo 2 MEGAFANS are boycotting Diablo 3 over this one feature. If they made a non-RMT version, I would have preordered two CE versions. This should not be taken as a statement about Diablo 3. It is instead a statement about RMT.
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Sadly, RMT is like the Speakeasies of the MMO Genre.
Make RMT illigal and it will still be done through shady means. Make it legal and it makes you look like you support RMT regardless of how much you hate it.
RMT is wrong. As someone who ran a Diablo 2 guild for 5 years, I find it to be a watermark statement that people like me... Diablo 2 MEGAFANS are boycotting Diablo 3 over this one feature. If they made a non-RMT version, I would have preordered two CE versions. This should not be taken as a statement about Diablo 3. It is instead a statement about RMT.
Do you support Gold Farmers? Or, the company that makes the game?
Comments
+1, way to approach the situation with logic and research.
It is not nor will ever be ok with me, and that is ok because guess what GW2 fans, I am allowed to feel that way. ANET/NCSoft in my eyes are not any different the EA/Bioware in regards to maximizing profits, now we all know that is why they are in business. They want your money they could really give two craps about pre game support in the end they want your hard earned mony, the question you have to ask yourself is; Are you going to give it to them?
On top of it all they have balls to ask for a full price pre purchase to guarantee a spot in beta, I have never in my 12+ years of MMOs ever seen this done before. A $5 pre order maybe but full price to get into beta are you kidding me, then add the cash shop on top, yeah my spidey senses are tingeling something is not right here.
So are Big Macs...And when society as a whole adopts them as mainstream and consumes them daily in mass quantities, it creates a fat, lazy bloated unhealthy society who want to go buy more Big Macs rather then put in the time and effort to make a healthy meal.
You guys don't get it. It was accepted long ago that Gold Farmers ruined games.
If the government set up distribution centers where anyone could go and legally buy drugs , it would certainly hurt the drug dealers. But it would hurt society more.
So now instead of the RMT gold trading being limited to only those who have the balls to risk losing everything they worked for (Or paid for) Now the vast majority of players will be engaging in this.
Most of you have played both types of games with sanctioned RMT and games without it.
But how many of you had been playing a game for years that did not have it, suddenly implement it? And not the kind like in WoW but a real Item Shop with items that have in game effects.
I have. This is why I am so vocal. Right before my eyes, I watched how the cash shop impacted the economy. It seriously hurt peoples ability to go out and farm, it hurt people looking for groups, It hurt PVP.
The overall effect is it removes people from farming. That takes people out of all loops in the game.
Cash Shops launched from the start will have the similar effect, but instead of dragging the game down, they just prevent it from reaching it's potential.
How depressing, being apathetic is not the same as being realistic.
Rules are not there do prevent behaviour, they define a framework of what is acceptable. Punishment is used to enforce that doctrine.
RMT became acceptable because devs were naive as to the possible revenue that was being raked in by people breaking their rules. At that point they had a choice to make and instead of enforcing their laws they chose to change them and get in on the action. There is no excuse, they are companies and they are there to generate income, this is not brain surgery.
The long post a little bit above is not logic, real world situation doesn't apply, there is no comparison when the people breaking the laws are completely at your mercy, they can not hide and they have absolutely no recourse. Devs could easily have enforced their laws (and a for a while some did - much of the transient nature of vocation in the games industry doesn't help) but in the long run it worked out more profitable for them to hide behind a cloak of ineptitude. They portrayed themselves as victims while at the same time eyeing up the real prey - us and our wallets. And what do we do when we are getting mugged? It's displayed in this thread a lot, instead of being outraged, we played the victim and cowed down waiting to get mugged again, it's draining.
-----
The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
The issue I see here for the most part is that as of right now the masses are enamoured with ANET and they can do no wrong in there eyes. They honestly need to wake up and say NO to the Cash Shop and the pre purchase full price tag to play in beta, both are wrong.
I would be willing to bet my next paycheck that if SWTOR announced this prior to launch that people would have been going insane over it, EA are whores, EA just wants your money etc etc etc, let alone if Blizz ever tried this.
uh actually. I don't like Big Macs though I agree they look great! It's the special sauce. Not very special to me.
P.S. I know you're just using it as an analogy but
the poster formerly known as melangel :P
So are Big Macs...And when society as a whole adopts them as mainstream and consumes them daily in mass quantities, it creates a fat, lazy bloated unhealthy society who want to go buy more Big Macs rather then put in the time and effort to make a healthy meal.
You guys don't get it. It was accepted long ago that Gold Farmers ruined games.
If the government set up distribution centers where anyone could go and legally buy drugs , it would certainly hurt the drug dealers. But it would hurt society more.
So now instead of the RMT gold trading being limited to only those who have the balls to risk losing everything they worked for (Or paid for) Now the vast majority of players will be engaging in this.
Most of you have played both types of games with sanctioned RMT and games without it.
But how many of you had been playing a game for years that did not have it, suddenly implement it? And not the kind like in WoW but a real Item Shop with items that have in game effects.
I have. This is why I am so vocal. Right before my eyes, I watched how the cash shop impacted the economy. It seriously hurt peoples ability to go out and farm, it hurt people looking for groups, It hurt PVP.
The overall effect is it removes people from farming. That takes people out of all loops in the game.
Cash Shops launched from the start will have the similar effect, but instead of dragging the game down, they just prevent it from reaching it's potential.
uh actually. I don't like Big Macs though I agree they look great! It's the special sauce. Not very special to me.
P.S. I know you're just using it as an analogy but
Yeah, I have to apologize,
I should have considered that not everyone would like Big Macs. But I couldn't say Whoppers. Man, I eat those and they repeat on me for Hours. Wendy's is usually pretty good though.
I will pretend you said wendy's to begin with!
Interesting when you think of it. It's rather like gaming and opinions and likes and dislikes no?
the poster formerly known as melangel :P
This is a perfect example of what happens in threads when people start talking crap without putting any thought or effort into their posts.
They end up getting called out on it ans then have to revise their original statement.
I hope my mistake can serve a a lesson to everyone reading this.
I don't think you were talking crap GeeTee. While I genuinely don't like Big Mac's I admit too I was trying to lighten the mood just a little. Seems every thread everywhere is turning into a battle for you know which game. There's nowhere to hide from it
the poster formerly known as melangel :P
It wasn't ok when EVE did it, it wasn't ok when Blizzard did but for some reason it is suddenly ok when Anet did it.
*rolls eyes*
Huge difference between EVE's PLEX and WoW's RMT.
EVE is a pure sandbox. Currency in that game IS power. Plex is an outright purchase of power.
Nothing WoW sells can affect your character in game as far as the engine is concerned.(That was the case the last time I looked)
Not one point in stats. Not one dps. not one point of health, not one copper, not 1% bonus to speed...Nothing.
Absolute pure 100% cosmetics or account services. The closest thing to Power WoW sells is a racial change if and when racial abilities are Imba.
We are talking about allowing real money trading in game, what you can buy it with or not is another matter. I doubt most even care for where peopl are going to spend it, just the whole idea of money trading puts off people in general.
I will pretend you said wendy's to begin with!
This is a perfect example of what happens in threads when people start talking crap without putting any thought or effort into their posts.
They end up getting called out on it ans then have to revise their original statement.
I hope my mistake can serve a a lesson to everyone reading this.
I don't think you were talking crap GeeTee. While I genuinely don't like Big Mac's I admit too I was trying to lighten the mood just a little. Seems every thread everywhere is turning into a battle for you know which game. There's nowhere to hide from it
No no, I got it, This last post I made, was also a joke.
The whole idea of RMT undermines why we play....to escape into a different world. This "I can bring it with me" mentality ruins it.
I hate all if it in any fashion. But for me, the breaking point is when I can buy one thing and convert it to something else of value in game.
You lack reading comprehension. I am clearly NOT okay with ArenaNet implementing RMT in GW2. That is what spurred me to make this thread in the first place.
Are you not aware of the Guardian Cubs in World of Warcraft?
These cash-purchasable minipets are do not soul bind and can be sold for as much as 10k. These allow players to buy gold to max out crafts, purchase epic gear and expensive enchantments, etc (i.e. buy power).
Fortunately for the game, the cubs do not serve any real pupose unlike EVE's PLEX and GW2's Gems and thus the demand for them is kept in check.
There is no inconsequential rl interference in mmo's, the whole principle is cosmetic.
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The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
No where i said you were ok with it. I am talking about GW2 fans in general who are tryign too hard to convince people that it is OK. Even though these same people were all up in arm against EVE and Blizzard. If anything i am on your side.
Oh sorry I thought you were referring to me. I apologize ha ha.
You lack reading comprehension. I am clearly NOT okay with ArenaNet implementing RMT in GW2. That is what spurred me to make this thread in the first place.
Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh
Huge difference between EVE's PLEX and WoW's RMT.
EVE is a pure sandbox. Currency in that game IS power. Plex is an outright purchase of power.
Nothing WoW sells can affect your character in game as far as the engine is concerned.(That was the case the last time I looked)
Not one point in stats. Not one dps. not one point of health, not one copper, not 1% bonus to speed...Nothing.
Absolute pure 100% cosmetics or account services. The closest thing to Power WoW sells is a racial change if and when racial abilities are Imba.
Are you not aware of the Guardian Cubs in World of Warcraft?
These cash-purchasable minipets are do not soul bind and can be sold for as much as 10k. These allow players to buy gold to max out crafts, purchase epic gear and expensive enchantments, etc (i.e. buy power).
Fortunately for the game, the cubs do not serve any real pupose unlike EVE's PLEX and GW2's Gems and thus the demand for them is kept in check.
Having been out of WoW for some time, I was not aware of such an item. As such, then WoW now falls under the gold selling banner in my book.
Real money transactions became okay because players are willing to put up with it, sadly.
I think that really is the answer to the question.
the poster formerly known as melangel :P
RMT is wrong. As someone who ran a Diablo 2 guild for 5 years, I find it to be a watermark statement that people like me... Diablo 2 MEGAFANS are boycotting Diablo 3 over this one feature. If they made a non-RMT version, I would have preordered two CE versions. This should not be taken as a statement about Diablo 3. It is instead a statement about RMT.
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Sadly, RMT is like the Speakeasies of the MMO Genre.
Make RMT illigal and it will still be done through shady means. Make it legal and it makes you look like you support RMT regardless of how much you hate it.
Do you support Gold Farmers? Or, the company that makes the game?