A Hatter is someone who makes hats, don't understand why they would hate anything to do with a video game.
It makes no difference what you post, the Mittani completely destroyed any respect he every had and will never be anyone that matters in Eve ever again. Does not matter how many other characters he plays the game with, his ability to lead has been effectively destroyed.
Lol sorry, but you do not know the Goons well. I am not playing Eve currently so I don't know how the Goon world is taking this, but The Mittani is the perfect Goon leader, even moreso after this whole fiasco. This is what Goons are. Goons don't care about other people's respect, at all.
Wheres the report button for this OP.......the guys an a-hole is it any big surprise he got slapped down a peg? Get over it, Matti had it coming for a long time and I'm frankly sad it wasnt worse.
I dont hate him but I dont have to like him just the same.
P.S. the BS in this post should = FIRED......baitness you should get that brown stuff off your nose mate its not very becoming
Sure you don't hate him, he is just so terribly bad for saying that people should harass a person that tried to guilt trip him into giving his money back. If you really think people should be temporarily banned for their out of game comments then the entirety of eve would be banned right now for what they post on every mintchip video.
I think this guy deserves any level of punishment he gets because CCP is a company that has some liability for the actions of their representatives. The Mittani is now a representative of CCP as a corporation, not just a group of developers or in-game law makers, because he is given the ability to speak at one of their events. As such, he has to act in a certain manner which would fit such a role.
We all have freedom of speech, but not in the context of a private corporation. And had the kid killed himself, CCP would look absolutely abysmal, video games would be scrutinized once more, cyber bullying would become the phrase thrown around even more, and many people with any interest in EVE Online would choose not to play it because of the nature of the community.
If he said it on a street corner, or even to the guy's face, that's completely different. The fact that he said it at a CCP-run event is the entire key here, and they need to act to prevent anything legitimate from happening on their watch by making an example out of this guy. I don't care whether he's hated or he runs a huge corp or whatever his role is in fake space.
A Hatter is someone who makes hats, don't understand why they would hate anything to do with a video game.
It makes no difference what you post, the Mittani completely destroyed any respect he every had and will never be anyone that matters in Eve ever again. Does not matter how many other characters he plays the game with, his ability to lead has been effectively destroyed.
Lol sorry, but you do not know the Goons well. I am not playing Eve currently so I don't know how the Goon world is taking this, but The Mittani is the perfect Goon leader, even moreso after this whole fiasco. This is what Goons are. Goons don't care about other people's respect, at all.
Much like the Honey Badger, Goons don't give a f*ck.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
I think this guy deserves any level of punishment he gets because CCP is a company that has some liability for the actions of their representatives. The Mittani is now a representative of CCP as a corporation, not just a group of developers or in-game law makers, because he is given the ability to speak at one of their events. As such, he has to act in a certain manner which would fit such a role.
We all have freedom of speech, but not in the context of a private corporation. And had the kid killed himself, CCP would look absolutely abysmal, video games would be scrutinized once more, cyber bullying would become the phrase thrown around even more, and many people with any interest in EVE Online would choose not to play it because of the nature of the community.
If he said it on a street corner, or even to the guy's face, that's completely different. The fact that he said it at a CCP-run event is the entire key here, and they need to act to prevent anything legitimate from happening on their watch by making an example out of this guy. I don't care whether he's hated or he runs a huge corp or whatever his role is in fake space.
he isnt a CCP representative, he was a player voted representative, in the council of stellar management.. if your going to make claims at least do a little research first. Not that your the only one here pulling factoids out of their nether regions.
I think that things have gone awry on both sides. If "w" really believed that he was safe in the online world of EVE than he was truly naive. If you're having suicidal thoughts of any kind, you need to seek professional help not tell everyone else on the Internet how suicidal you are. And to say that EVE was his last cusp of rationality is also quite outlandish considering there's nothing rational about EVE.
On the other hand, where do we draw the line with cyber bullying? There's one thing I can say with assurance: While bullying is bad in schools, it's worse on the Internet. People of all age and ethnenticity believe themselves to be invisible to the rest of the internet society, thus taking on a persona that they otherwise do not display in the public eye. Free to release there repressed anger that would normally be kept silent, many people do just that while on the internet. Some can be bullied at school and come home only to be an even bigger bully on the Internet.
Unfortunately, because of its competative nature, gaming has seen the brunt of this disfunctional behavior. I think in the case of The Mittani, that if he was sincere in his apologies and willing to freely accept whatever disciplinary actions taken against him, then we the outsiders in this case need to let it go. I think that both parties should take some counseling, "w" moreso than The Mittani. On a whole, I think people need to watch what they say on the Internet. You never know what someone else is going through. The otherside of that coin is, if you are having suicidal thoughts, dont use the Internet, gaming, or social media as relief. Get professional help immediately.
Anyone care read this for what it is an easy weak shot at Mittani , without any refernces of context of the situation.
And everything else your typed in this thread is now contextually suspect, as maybe you just hate Mittani.
Can't beat him in game , manufacture rage out of game nice job braw. Go back to given up teritory.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Anyone care read this for what it is an easy weak shot at Mittani , without any refernces of context of the situation.
And everything else your typed in this thread is now contextually suspect, as maybe you just hate Mittani.
Can't beat him in game , manufacture rage out of game nice job braw. Go back to given up teritory.
Lol, I played eve for maybe 6months max never had issues with Goons. The context is simple, Alexander Gianturco cyber bullied someone, live on video, he was punished for that by the reaction and by CCP and apologised, all fine but since then he has been whining "CCP threw him under the bus" etc. I really think you need to get some perspective as you keep this thread alive with your constant attempts to justify Gianturco's actions.
Anyone care read this for what it is an easy weak shot at Mittani , without any refernces of context of the situation.
And everything else your typed in this thread is now contextually suspect, as maybe you just hate Mittani.
Can't beat him in game , manufacture rage out of game nice job braw. Go back to given up teritory.
Lol, I played eve for maybe 6months max never had issues with Goons. The context is simple, Alexander Gianturco cyber bullied someone, live on video, he was punished for that by the reaction and by CCP and apologised, all fine but since then he has been whining "CCP threw him under the bus" etc. I really think you need to get some perspective as you keep this thread alive with your constant attempts to justify Gianturco's actions.
So alex was attempting to be funny by making fun of that person being a bully and what not, and you have been hypercritcal.. But its ok to attempt to be funny too i get it.... No really i do.....
[mod edit]
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Anyone care read this for what it is an easy weak shot at Mittani , without any refernces of context of the situation.
And everything else your typed in this thread is now contextually suspect, as maybe you just hate Mittani.
Can't beat him in game , manufacture rage out of game nice job braw. Go back to given up teritory.
Well... The Goons might know abit about that, given how they finally took down BoB....
But any way, the fact of the matter is that Mittens was way out of line with his drunken nonsense, but so are the various hysterics who want to blow this up to some Crime Against Humanity or some such. But we've come to expect such drama from that long running soap opera, Days of our EVE... ^^
It is a matter of judgement and, in mine and the majority of other players, this was a step too far. Examples like this help us develop a gaming line in the sand, and he definitely crossed it.
It is important to differentiate between a game and real life. If the player is genuinely suicidal then that piece of real-life DEFINITELY takes precedence over someones right to role-play. Anyone who cannot see that is not part of the semi-civilized human race that I belong too.
We have minimum standards and an evolving moral ethos - this was way past the line for the vast majority. So is rape, so is murder (though vastly more serious, equally real), and therefore he should be punished by the majority for his abhorrent baheviour that does not meet the social minimum standard of society.
Yes, he was WAY over the line for me, but he is not forcing ANYONE to do ANYTHING. That is the point that all too many people continue to either over look, or miss entirely. Anyone who acts upon his drunken nonsense, is doing so of their own free will. The same applies to everyone else.
Mixing this type of outragous (and irresponsible) SPEECH, with SERIOUS PHYSICAL crimes like murder and rape does a dis service to how SERIOUS the real ACTIONS involved are. As for the standards of "society" do you really want to open up that can of worms? At its most fundamental, its an appeal to numbers or might makes "right", and human history is filled with examples of the horrors that have resulted.
Anyone who is so unstable as to take *actions* against themselves because of a GAME, would have been triggered by something else eventually, in any event.
Unfortunately, we now live in a society where the logical, accepted reaction to being "bullied" is suicide. We've convicted people based on Facebook posts, declaring them responsible for the actions of a sick person.
Anyone care read this for what it is an easy weak shot at Mittani , without any refernces of context of the situation.
And everything else your typed in this thread is now contextually suspect, as maybe you just hate Mittani.
Can't beat him in game , manufacture rage out of game nice job braw. Go back to given up teritory.
Lol, I played eve for maybe 6months max never had issues with Goons. The context is simple, Alexander Gianturco cyber bullied someone, live on video, he was punished for that by the reaction and by CCP and apologised, all fine but since then he has been whining "CCP threw him under the bus" etc. I really think you need to get some perspective as you keep this thread alive with your constant attempts to justify Gianturco's actions.
So alex was attempting to be funny by making fun of that person being a bully and what not, and you have been hypercritcal.. But its ok to attempt to be funny too i get it.... No really i do.....
Oh agian you didn't address my point, like ever, so your pretty much trolling now?
Note that post was not about his actions but yours.
what is wrong with people like you? telling a crowd "hey harrass this guy so we can see if he will kill himself" is anything but funny. I mean i understand there are some degenerates on the internet but for christ sake theres a bit of a difference from calling someone a whiner (making a joke) and i bet we can get this guy to kill himself (making a joke).
what is wrong with you how can you NOT see the difference or are you a goon who will just say nearly anything to protect your leader. because i would think anyone in their right mind would see the difference.
Well, I am glad an article like this was posted. I hope we see more of them.
Far too many people think that, just because something is done online, it is completely outside the norms of morality. Absolutely anything goes, including harming others emotionally and perhaps through that emotional harm even physically.
It is also the essence of cowardice to hide behind a computer screen to commit atrocious deeds you would never dare IRL. That is why a huge uproar was raised when Blizzard threatened to force people to use their real names on the forums. The cowards and haters, stripped of their comforting little blankets to hide behind, realized that playtime was over. Too bad Blizzard caved.
I suspect that is why SWTOR decided not to have server forums. They always get dominated by the bottom feeders of the Internet who use them to abuse others and feed their own twisted self-image.
If you are talking the Real-ID stuff...then the real concerns there have nothing to do with wanting to hide from trolling other users...it has to do with facilitating identity theft.
Essentialy forcing people to use thier real information on a gaming site or even worse making it publicaly accessable...helps identity thieves steal information that they can then use for compromising other things that are really important...like banking accounts or credit cards. That's because gaming sites rarely devote as much resources to security as other sites.
There are other concerns as well... such as cyber-stalking and people who happen to live under represeive regiemes where the government can and will inprison them (or worse) for simply speaking thier minds...or revealing certain facts the government would rather not be mentioned.
Anonymity is one of those double-edged swords. It definately one of those double-edged swords. It definately has down-sides... such as enabling people to act like complete %#^@#
but overall, I believe the upsides outweight the downsides in most circumstances. After-all there is a reason why voting booths and jury deliberations are kept private.
IMHO it's really not anonymity that is the problem here.... it's the basic values that many people are being raised with. Especialy in terms of games and/or sports. It seems like a whole generation has been raised with absolutely no concept of what "sportsmanship" is about.
I would say that the individual in questions actions IN GAME (as described) are just as problematic as thier actions out of game are. It's fine to engage in scams and "ganking" if that's what the game is designed around.... it's NOT fine to do that with the express intent of "griefing", annoying or making some-one's play experience crappy...... even if the person you are doing it to has no mental health issues. Games are supposed to be about EVERYONE having fun....not about crapping on someone else.
Heck.... "trash-talk" doesn't even really belong in a game, unless the people involved specificaly KNOW it's just kidding around. Whenever, I see someone engage in it...I think to myself... "There's a kid that never learned anything about sportsmanship growing up".
So really...it's not anonymity that is the issue here..... it's the basic lack of understanding about what so many of these people learned about playing games and/or sports while growing up. I look at the way so many of these folks behave and think to myself "The kids on my 9 year olds Miracle League Baseball team know better then to behave like this..... did no one teach these guys anything about how to playing games/sports when growing up?"
I disagree fundamentally with this article, using a public platform which was being broadcast over the internet to call on people to harrass someone who may have mental health issues with the stated aim of trying to get him to commit suicide, even if said in poor jest, is inexcusable and is in no way diminished by associated misreporting or the glee taken by his in game enemies. The writer of this article should be ashamed at having written this.
I agree with Ref.
I don't know the full story but he Mittani must have already inflicted abundant humiliation and aggravation in-game prior to the incident.
So he was way over the line when, as a community rep, he appealed to entire EvE community to further grief this individual, an individual he named! It's excused as a part of the game if a CSM member griefs ppl during his game-time ... but what he did was pure maliscous. I have no sympathy for him
Gee Ross, LEARN to write! It was painstaking trying to extract the storyline out of that dialog.
I am always amazed that players think they can trust the goons, when they are completely untrustworthy. As to Eve, as usual, everything gets blown out of proportion. It is both sad and amusing at the same time.
You did better than me. I thought someone actually had died. Eve players are weird. It's good they have a weird game for themselves.
@grimfall - I agree. I thought from the way it was being explained that it led to a suicide. Creative as the author's writing is. His words could be a bit clearer. They seemed to circle the situation but rarely come to rest on an actual outcome.
@Everyone else - It just goes to show what people will do when put in front of a swarm of friends they feel the need to impress by picking on someone weaker than themselves. Social pressure can do that to anyone. Oh, and the alcohol doesn't help either it loosens the morals. The need to threaten the man's family or livlihood is atrocious and no better than what he did. In fact that kind of suggestive violent response is worse.
The fact a man would consider losing his life over a game would suggest he needs your support socially more than your defense violently toward someone who attacked him verbally. Engage yourself in helping this person find means of expression other than physical harm to himself. Your threats toward his attacker's family means your lashing out at his weaknesses and becoming the bully yourself.
This is not a judgment against anyone. Because I don't consider myself any better or worse than any other human being. This is a simple observation of a sitiation that can pop up at any time. I only ask that we all step back and look at it with cooler heads than instantly responding with the idea of violence. For it only feeds the media spread idea that video games breed violent people.
"We've used the term 'cyber-bully' to describe The Mittani and associated it with his real life name, a term which - if is truly applicable to him - we are, almost all of us in EVE Online, also guilty of being."
Except I've never publicly berated and exposed someone who told me he was suicidal. The author's comparison is ridiculous.
And by that I mean that it shouldn't be so bias when defending the Mittani guy. Bringing balance to a discussion is one thing but this is far too forgiving of the original transgression. The author couldn't even bring themselves to admit that the original issue was bullying. “what some called “bullying”” With quotation marks around bullying.
The Mittani did the right thing to publicly apologise unreservedly and resign.
However, I think people over-emphasise the importance of the CSM - the really important things (such as the game's direction) are decided by CCP.
A riot in Jita, a storm on the forums, and people quitting Eve, are all probably more influential than the CSM.
The CSM is one of the 'checks and balences'.
^ this, people give the CSM too much credit.
Playing: EVE Online Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2 KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
Comments
God, that was a boring article.
Lol sorry, but you do not know the Goons well. I am not playing Eve currently so I don't know how the Goon world is taking this, but The Mittani is the perfect Goon leader, even moreso after this whole fiasco. This is what Goons are. Goons don't care about other people's respect, at all.
Sure you don't hate him, he is just so terribly bad for saying that people should harass a person that tried to guilt trip him into giving his money back. If you really think people should be temporarily banned for their out of game comments then the entirety of eve would be banned right now for what they post on every mintchip video.
I think this guy deserves any level of punishment he gets because CCP is a company that has some liability for the actions of their representatives. The Mittani is now a representative of CCP as a corporation, not just a group of developers or in-game law makers, because he is given the ability to speak at one of their events. As such, he has to act in a certain manner which would fit such a role.
We all have freedom of speech, but not in the context of a private corporation. And had the kid killed himself, CCP would look absolutely abysmal, video games would be scrutinized once more, cyber bullying would become the phrase thrown around even more, and many people with any interest in EVE Online would choose not to play it because of the nature of the community.
If he said it on a street corner, or even to the guy's face, that's completely different. The fact that he said it at a CCP-run event is the entire key here, and they need to act to prevent anything legitimate from happening on their watch by making an example out of this guy. I don't care whether he's hated or he runs a huge corp or whatever his role is in fake space.
Shadow's Hand Guild
Open recruitment for
The Secret World - Dragons
Planetside 2 - Terran Republic
Tera - Dragonfall Server
http://www.shadowshand.com
All hail The Mittani, the winner of EVE Online!
Much like the Honey Badger, Goons don't give a f*ck.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
he isnt a CCP representative, he was a player voted representative, in the council of stellar management.. if your going to make claims at least do a little research first. Not that your the only one here pulling factoids out of their nether regions.
On the other hand, where do we draw the line with cyber bullying? There's one thing I can say with assurance: While bullying is bad in schools, it's worse on the Internet. People of all age and ethnenticity believe themselves to be invisible to the rest of the internet society, thus taking on a persona that they otherwise do not display in the public eye. Free to release there repressed anger that would normally be kept silent, many people do just that while on the internet. Some can be bullied at school and come home only to be an even bigger bully on the Internet.
Unfortunately, because of its competative nature, gaming has seen the brunt of this disfunctional behavior. I think in the case of The Mittani, that if he was sincere in his apologies and willing to freely accept whatever disciplinary actions taken against him, then we the outsiders in this case need to let it go. I think that both parties should take some counseling, "w" moreso than The Mittani. On a whole, I think people need to watch what they say on the Internet. You never know what someone else is going through. The otherside of that coin is, if you are having suicidal thoughts, dont use the Internet, gaming, or social media as relief. Get professional help immediately.
Fixed that for you.And your true face shows itself.
Anyone care read this for what it is an easy weak shot at Mittani , without any refernces of context of the situation.
And everything else your typed in this thread is now contextually suspect, as maybe you just hate Mittani.
Can't beat him in game , manufacture rage out of game nice job braw. Go back to given up teritory.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Fixed that for you.And your true face shows itself.
Anyone care read this for what it is an easy weak shot at Mittani , without any refernces of context of the situation.
And everything else your typed in this thread is now contextually suspect, as maybe you just hate Mittani.
Can't beat him in game , manufacture rage out of game nice job braw. Go back to given up teritory.
Lol, I played eve for maybe 6months max never had issues with Goons. The context is simple, Alexander Gianturco cyber bullied someone, live on video, he was punished for that by the reaction and by CCP and apologised, all fine but since then he has been whining "CCP threw him under the bus" etc. I really think you need to get some perspective as you keep this thread alive with your constant attempts to justify Gianturco's actions.So alex was attempting to be funny by making fun of that person being a bully and what not, and you have been hypercritcal.. But its ok to attempt to be funny too i get it.... No really i do.....
[mod edit]
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Well... The Goons might know abit about that, given how they finally took down BoB....
But any way, the fact of the matter is that Mittens was way out of line with his drunken nonsense, but so are the various hysterics who want to blow this up to some Crime Against Humanity or some such. But we've come to expect such drama from that long running soap opera, Days of our EVE... ^^
Unfortunately, we now live in a society where the logical, accepted reaction to being "bullied" is suicide. We've convicted people based on Facebook posts, declaring them responsible for the actions of a sick person.
what is wrong with people like you? telling a crowd "hey harrass this guy so we can see if he will kill himself" is anything but funny. I mean i understand there are some degenerates on the internet but for christ sake theres a bit of a difference from calling someone a whiner (making a joke) and i bet we can get this guy to kill himself (making a joke).
what is wrong with you how can you NOT see the difference or are you a goon who will just say nearly anything to protect your leader. because i would think anyone in their right mind would see the difference.
If you are talking the Real-ID stuff...then the real concerns there have nothing to do with wanting to hide from trolling other users...it has to do with facilitating identity theft.
Essentialy forcing people to use thier real information on a gaming site or even worse making it publicaly accessable...helps identity thieves steal information that they can then use for compromising other things that are really important...like banking accounts or credit cards. That's because gaming sites rarely devote as much resources to security as other sites.
There are other concerns as well... such as cyber-stalking and people who happen to live under represeive regiemes where the government can and will inprison them (or worse) for simply speaking thier minds...or revealing certain facts the government would rather not be mentioned.
Anonymity is one of those double-edged swords. It definately one of those double-edged swords. It definately has down-sides... such as enabling people to act like complete %#^@#
but overall, I believe the upsides outweight the downsides in most circumstances. After-all there is a reason why voting booths and jury deliberations are kept private.
IMHO it's really not anonymity that is the problem here.... it's the basic values that many people are being raised with. Especialy in terms of games and/or sports. It seems like a whole generation has been raised with absolutely no concept of what "sportsmanship" is about.
I would say that the individual in questions actions IN GAME (as described) are just as problematic as thier actions out of game are. It's fine to engage in scams and "ganking" if that's what the game is designed around.... it's NOT fine to do that with the express intent of "griefing", annoying or making some-one's play experience crappy...... even if the person you are doing it to has no mental health issues. Games are supposed to be about EVERYONE having fun....not about crapping on someone else.
Heck.... "trash-talk" doesn't even really belong in a game, unless the people involved specificaly KNOW it's just kidding around. Whenever, I see someone engage in it...I think to myself... "There's a kid that never learned anything about sportsmanship growing up".
So really...it's not anonymity that is the issue here..... it's the basic lack of understanding about what so many of these people learned about playing games and/or sports while growing up. I look at the way so many of these folks behave and think to myself "The kids on my 9 year olds Miracle League Baseball team know better then to behave like this..... did no one teach these guys anything about how to playing games/sports when growing up?"
I agree with Ref.
I don't know the full story but he Mittani must have already inflicted abundant humiliation and aggravation in-game prior to the incident.
So he was way over the line when, as a community rep, he appealed to entire EvE community to further grief this individual, an individual he named! It's excused as a part of the game if a CSM member griefs ppl during his game-time ... but what he did was pure maliscous. I have no sympathy for him
You did better than me. I thought someone actually had died. Eve players are weird. It's good they have a weird game for themselves.
@grimfall - I agree. I thought from the way it was being explained that it led to a suicide. Creative as the author's writing is. His words could be a bit clearer. They seemed to circle the situation but rarely come to rest on an actual outcome.
@Everyone else - It just goes to show what people will do when put in front of a swarm of friends they feel the need to impress by picking on someone weaker than themselves. Social pressure can do that to anyone. Oh, and the alcohol doesn't help either it loosens the morals. The need to threaten the man's family or livlihood is atrocious and no better than what he did. In fact that kind of suggestive violent response is worse.
The fact a man would consider losing his life over a game would suggest he needs your support socially more than your defense violently toward someone who attacked him verbally. Engage yourself in helping this person find means of expression other than physical harm to himself. Your threats toward his attacker's family means your lashing out at his weaknesses and becoming the bully yourself.
This is not a judgment against anyone. Because I don't consider myself any better or worse than any other human being. This is a simple observation of a sitiation that can pop up at any time. I only ask that we all step back and look at it with cooler heads than instantly responding with the idea of violence. For it only feeds the media spread idea that video games breed violent people.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
"Love can be innocent and can be sweet, but sometimes about as nice as rotting meat."
"We've used the term 'cyber-bully' to describe The Mittani and associated it with his real life name, a term which - if is truly applicable to him - we are, almost all of us in EVE Online, also guilty of being."
Except I've never publicly berated and exposed someone who told me he was suicidal. The author's comparison is ridiculous.
This article is far too apologetic.
And by that I mean that it shouldn't be so bias when defending the Mittani guy. Bringing balance to a discussion is one thing but this is far too forgiving of the original transgression. The author couldn't even bring themselves to admit that the original issue was bullying. “what some called “bullying”” With quotation marks around bullying.
^ this, people give the CSM too much credit.
Playing: EVE Online
Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online
Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2
KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
Jeez you guys take this game too serious made a joke and got a warning first ever lol. Yep hardcore.