Why is it that Themepark MMORPGs stopped being about friends & fun, for so many people, that they have to come on here every couple days and ask... "Since there's no gear treadmill, what am I working for? What will keep me playing?" MMORPGs are really in a sad state if you ask me, because threads like these have become the norm on the GW2 forums.
Originally posted by StyleGaming Everything above (to me) sounds like a MMO Skyrim.
What did you expect to hear? GW2 and Skyrim don't have much in common, except basics of free targeting system which you can find in pretty much any action game. Skyrim is a single-player game, GW2 is a MMO. Skyrim is about world exploration and quests, GW2 is about PvP and dynamic events.
Originally posted by Master10K MMORPGs are really in a sad state if you ask me, because threads like these have become the norm on the GW2 forums.
WoW was my first MMO yet I don't understand this either. I played WoW because I managed to gather a great guild, because I was surrounded by people who I cared about. It didn't matter what we grouped up for, it was always fun.
MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).
Everything above (to me) sounds like a MMO Skyrim.
Open world probably more like Oblivion than Skyrim actually. In Oblivion the entire world just scaled up to your level like in GW2. No matter what monster you run across, and no matter what level you are, the game autoscales everything to you. That small group of goblins that you defeated as a level 1? Meet it again at level 80 and they will be buffed up to your level. Again this is more Oblivion than Skyrim. Skyrim learned from the mistakes of Oblivion and got rid of that mechanic for the most part.
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind" 1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN 2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
Open world probably more like Oblivion than Skyrim actually. In Oblivion the entire world just scaled up to your level like in GW2. No matter what monster you run across, and no matter what level you are, the game autoscales everything to you. That small group of goblins that you defeated as a level 1? Meet it again at level 80 and they will be buffed up to your level. Again this is more Oblivion than Skyrim. Skyrim learned from the mistakes of Oblivion and got rid of that mechanic for the most part.
Sadly, I never got a chance to play Oblivion so I wouldn't know.
Everything above (to me) sounds like a MMO Skyrim.
GW2 and Skyrim don't have much in common, except free targeting system that you can find in pretty much any action game. Skyrim is a single-player game, GW2 is a MMO. Skyrim is about world exploration and quests, GW2 is about PvP and dynamic events.
People have sometimes questioned my sanity when I compare GW2 to post-Trammel UO, but the parallels are there.
UO's classless skill system allowed you to create any kind of character you really wanted to, and with the insane number of combinations of professions, weapon types, traits, utility skills etc. it looks like you can create very, very different "versions" of the same 8 classes for an extremely high level of customization and differentiation between characters.
The "point" of UO's PvE wasn't to get gear, it was to explore, gain treasures, and defeat monsters.
GW2 with the flat gear curve and focus on exploration and social, cooperative open world content I feel kind of captures that same "feeling" of exploration and adventure instead of simply being a grind to max level to start grinding gear.
PvP in UO was completely seperate from PvE after the Trammel/Felucca split - something GW2 is also doing with the Mists and the instant action conquest mode being fully seperate from the "main" world.
With no real gear curve in UO, crafting was more about supplying a need and for cosmetic items, something GW2 shares at a basic level.
Obviously, there are further parallels and of course also a number of things vastly different, like housing/gear loss on death etc. but I think the "spirit" of UO in a very real sense is trying to be captured and replicated by GW2.
It's just about... playing.. however you want. There is no end game, the whole game is end game, exploration and adventure and combat with both players and monsters.
And perhaps above all else, a return to the MMORPG being a truly multiplayer experience.
MMOs of late have been OK at the competitive aspect of multiplayer, but with such a huge focus on exclusivity via instanced dungeons and raids and everything being "solo" I think the modern MMO has lost at lot of the cooperative elements that make multiplayer fun.
GW2 is trying really hard to bring back that sense of comradery.
Everything above (to me) sounds like a MMO Skyrim.
GW2 and Skyrim don't have much in common, except free targeting system that you can find in pretty much any action game. Skyrim is a single-player game, GW2 is a MMO. Skyrim is about world exploration and quests, GW2 is about PvP and dynamic events.
People have sometimes questioned my sanity when I compare GW2 to post-Trammel UO, but the parallels are there.
UO's classless skill system allowed you to create any kind of character you really wanted to, and with the insane number of combinations of professions, weapon types, traits, utility skills etc. it looks like you can create very, very different "versions" of the same 8 classes for an extremely high level of customization and differentiation between characters.
The "point" of UO's PvE wasn't to get gear, it was to explore, gain treasures, and defeat monsters.
GW2 with the flat gear curve and focus on exploration and social, cooperative open world content I feel kind of captures that same "feeling" of exploration and adventure instead of simply being a grind to max level to start grinding gear.
PvP in UO was completely seperate from PvE after the Trammel/Felucca split - something GW2 is also doing with the Mists and the instant action conquest mode being fully seperate from the "main" world.
With no real gear curve in UO, crafting was more about supplying a need and for cosmetic items, something GW2 shares at a basic level.
Obviously, there are further parallels and of course also a number of things vastly different, like housing/gear loss on death etc. but I think the "spirit" of UO in a very real sense is trying to be captured and replicated by GW2.
It's just about... playing.. however you want. There is no end game, the whole game is end game, exploration and adventure and combat with both players and monsters.
And perhaps above all else, a return to the MMORPG being a truly multiplayer experience.
MMOs of late have been OK at the competitive aspect of multiplayer, but with such a huge focus on exclusivity via instanced dungeons and raids and everything being "solo" I think the modern MMO has lost at lot of the cooperative elements that make multiplayer fun.
GW2 is trying really hard to bring back that sense of comradery.
UO was the first true MMO. Ultima was a GREAT RPG series. So the idea of playing it with other people to become the avatar was amazing. I remember playing everquest, and wondering why there was so much attacking of other people, aren't we all suppose to be like the characters in an RPG.
I remember back in the day before wow, wow came about because peopel complained about no "solo" content. You had to form groups and go out and adventure. It was modeled after dnd. This movement got the Wows and everything after. But the folk who were excited about playing a real rpg online got shafted.
Originally posted by dontadow wow came about because peopel complained about no "solo" content.
I don't know the situation in Cata but in my days soloing in WoW wasn't terribly interesting to put it mildly. Even in WotLK it was okay at best. And (except starting zones) it was more or less the same for every race/class so there wasn't even any replayability. I doubt anybody played WoW just for solo content.
MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).
wow came about because peopel complained about no "solo" content.
I don't know the situation in Cata but in my days soloing in WoW wasn't terribly interesting to put it mildly. Even in WotLK it was okay at best. And (except starting zones) it was more or less the same for every race/class so there wasn't even any replayability. I doubt anybody played WoW just for solo content.
Yes, but the big marketing ploy that differenicated it from other games previously was that in other games, parties were fairly prominent. Wow was the game that redifined the party dynamic, defining the "trilogy" and making it a game that parties were optional. In a sense, it was the original casual mmo. It was the game designed that clearly told you what role you would be doing and how you should play it. So if you did get in a group, it was clear what you'd be doing.
As wow players how many times did we all run ICC? It always managed to be fun, not because of the gear or drops, and lord knows ICC isn't that nice of a raid, it was fun because if the other people.
For that matter did anyone pay FFXI? Some of the slowest progression I've seen in a game, but with little emphasis on gear or loot and almost forced grouping. Yet it was still fun because of the people you met.
With GW2 taking the emphasis off of oneself and gear I think the people we meet and group with will keep us coming back for the fun, instead of the WoW standard of coming back to grind gear with random players who either don't socialize or are just down right rude and no fun to play with.
I have seen lots of videos of GW2 and I do plan on playing it myself. But I have a main concern.
What will keep us playing GW2??
If gear/levels do not matter then what are we working for? What will keep us interested? Doing the same stuff over and over again gets repetitious and boring.
Again this is not a hate thread so please try to keep it civil.
Thanks!
I've never seen an MMO that doesn't rely on repetition for it's long term game play. In fact, it could be argued that some MMOs rely on it from start to finish. GW2 relies on it much less heavily than others. That will keep it engaging for most of us, for the long term.
Originally posted by StyleGaming Everything above (to me) sounds like a MMO Skyrim.
What did you expect to hear? GW2 and Skyrim don't have much in common, except basics of free targeting system which you can find in pretty much any action game. Skyrim is a single-player game, GW2 is a MMO. Skyrim is about world exploration and quests, GW2 is about PvP and dynamic events.
Originally posted by Master10K MMORPGs are really in a sad state if you ask me, because threads like these have become the norm on the GW2 forums.
WoW was my first MMO yet I don't understand this either. I played WoW because I managed to gather a great guild, because I was surrounded by people who I cared about. It didn't matter what we grouped up for, it was always fun.
I hate to be honest but GW 2 is about exploration lol. I'm not even going to elaborate its too obvious it's sad.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Originally posted by gainesvilleg Open world probably more like Oblivion than Skyrim actually. In Oblivion the entire world just scaled up to your level like in GW2. No matter what monster you run across, and no matter what level you are, the game autoscales everything to you. That small group of goblins that you defeated as a level 1? Meet it again at level 80 and they will be buffed up to your level. Again this is more Oblivion than Skyrim. Skyrim learned from the mistakes of Oblivion and got rid of that mechanic for the most part.
Sadly, I never got a chance to play Oblivion so I wouldn't know.
Ll well see it depends on common sense, Gw 2 is a MMO and oblivion was not, one could see why it's a mistake in a single player game rather than a MMO. It's all about the mind and how you interpret things, I've played oblivion but it's too obvious on why it not being an MMO makes a huge impact on scaling lol. Pretty much in obvlion since your by yourself a lot of easy fights would be long as hell. Skyrim and oblivion both had exploration as well.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Originally posted by JTST83 standard of coming back to grind gear with random players who either don't socialize or are just down right rude and no fun to play with.
Subscription-based games are supposed to add content regularly because it's assumed that players pay monthly fee for this additional content. Adding new zones is hard because you need new artwork, new 3d models, new quests, etc. Setting up world events is also hard because you need to test them and they don't last too long. Adding new raids is the easiest, the laziest way to add more content. There's only one problem: game engines and combats system have limitations. Unless you make drastic changes, new bosses won't actually be that different from old bosses. Gear progressions obscures this problem and maintains the illusion of novelty. That's all.
Originally posted by RizelStar I hate to be honest but GW 2 is about exploration lol. I'm not even going to elaborate its too obvious it's sad.
Let's put it this way: if you're not a die-hard fan of exploration for the sake of exploration, any Bethesda game is boring right away. You can get much better story in DA:O and much better combat system in about any other RPG.
MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).
Originally posted by JTST83 standard of coming back to grind gear with random players who either don't socialize or are just down right rude and no fun to play with.
Subscription-based games are supposed to add content regularly because it's assumed that players pay monthly fee for this additional content. Adding new zones is hard because you need new artwork, new 3d models, new quests, etc. Setting up world events is also hard because you need to test them and they don't last too long. Adding new raids is the easiest, the laziest way to add more content. There's only one problem: game engines and combats system have limitstions. Unless you make drastic changes, new bosses won't actually be that different from old bosses. Gear progressions obscures this problem and maintains the illusion of novelty. That's all.
My point exactly, grinding new gear isn't new content, it's a new texture on the same content from 3 years ago
Originally posted by JTST83 standard of coming back to grind gear with random players who either don't socialize or are just down right rude and no fun to play with.
Subscription-based games are supposed to add content regularly because it's assumed that players pay monthly fee for this additional content. Adding new zones is hard because you need new artwork, new 3d models, new quests, etc. Setting up world events is also hard because you need to test them and they don't last too long. Adding new raids is the easiest, the laziest way to add more content. There's only one problem: game engines and combats system have limitations. Unless you make drastic changes, new bosses won't actually be that different from old bosses. Gear progressions obscures this problem and maintains the illusion of novelty. That's all.
Originally posted by RizelStar I hate to be honest but GW 2 is about exploration lol. I'm not even going to elaborate its too obvious it's sad.
Let's put it this way: if you're not a die-hard fan of exploration for the sake of exploration, any Bethesda game is boring right away. You can get much better story in DA:O and much better combat system in about any other RPG.
Yea but I'm saying to say what GW 2 is only focus on those two things isn't right, because we know they added exploration in Gw 2, that can give those who like to explore in games like Skyrim that in an MMO, it's why it is more of a themebox than theme park, it's more of a theme park but to me sandboxes had good exploration, which to me Guild wars is looking to have as well. It's there as a option you know, like and if ou really like it you can do it. It's not linear even with events because you don't have to follow a path or chain. You feel me bro?
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Originally posted by JTST83 standard of coming back to grind gear with random players who either don't socialize or are just down right rude and no fun to play with.
Subscription-based games are supposed to add content regularly because it's assumed that players pay monthly fee for this additional content. Adding new zones is hard because you need new artwork, new 3d models, new quests, etc. Setting up world events is also hard because you need to test them and they don't last too long. Adding new raids is the easiest, the laziest way to add more content. There's only one problem: game engines and combats system have limitations. Unless you make drastic changes, new bosses won't actually be that different from old bosses. Gear progressions obscures this problem and maintains the illusion of novelty. That's all.
Originally posted by RizelStar I hate to be honest but GW 2 is about exploration lol. I'm not even going to elaborate its too obvious it's sad.
Let's put it this way: if you're not a die-hard fan of exploration for the sake of exploration, any Bethesda game is boring right away. You can get much better story in DA:O and much better combat system in about any other RPG.
Yea but I'm saying to say what GW 2 is only focus on those two things isn't right, because we know they added exploration in Gw 2, that can give those who like to explore in games like Skyrim that in an MMO, it's why it is more of a themebox than theme park, it's more of a theme park but to me sandboxes had good exploration, which to me Guild wars is looking to have as well. It's there as a option you know, like and if ou really like it you can do it. It's not linear even with events because you don't have to follow a path or chain. You feel me bro?
Originally posted by RizelStar Yea but I'm saying to say what GW 2 is only focus on those two things isn't right, because we know they added exploration in Gw 2
Yeah, here I agree. Storyline replayability is also worth mentioning, especially if personal stories will keep branching at higher levels.
I wasn't in beta and can't be 100% sure but it certainly seems there are enough activities in GW2 to choose from. And as for repetitiveness... every game is repetitive, every in-game activity is repetitive. I did Zul'Gurub and Molten Core so many times in vanilla WoW that my main was actually exalted with Zandalar and Hydraxian.
MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).
Comments
Why is it that Themepark MMORPGs stopped being about friends & fun, for so many people, that they have to come on here every couple days and ask... "Since there's no gear treadmill, what am I working for? What will keep me playing?" MMORPGs are really in a sad state if you ask me, because threads like these have become the norm on the GW2 forums.
Everything above (to me) sounds like a MMO Skyrim.
- http://www.youtube.com/user/myfreestylegaming
AC>EQ>War>EVE>AoC>Aion>SWTOR>FireFall>Tera/GW2
MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).
Open world probably more like Oblivion than Skyrim actually. In Oblivion the entire world just scaled up to your level like in GW2. No matter what monster you run across, and no matter what level you are, the game autoscales everything to you. That small group of goblins that you defeated as a level 1? Meet it again at level 80 and they will be buffed up to your level. Again this is more Oblivion than Skyrim. Skyrim learned from the mistakes of Oblivion and got rid of that mechanic for the most part.
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
Sadly, I never got a chance to play Oblivion so I wouldn't know.
- http://www.youtube.com/user/myfreestylegaming
AC>EQ>War>EVE>AoC>Aion>SWTOR>FireFall>Tera/GW2
People have sometimes questioned my sanity when I compare GW2 to post-Trammel UO, but the parallels are there.
UO's classless skill system allowed you to create any kind of character you really wanted to, and with the insane number of combinations of professions, weapon types, traits, utility skills etc. it looks like you can create very, very different "versions" of the same 8 classes for an extremely high level of customization and differentiation between characters.
The "point" of UO's PvE wasn't to get gear, it was to explore, gain treasures, and defeat monsters.
GW2 with the flat gear curve and focus on exploration and social, cooperative open world content I feel kind of captures that same "feeling" of exploration and adventure instead of simply being a grind to max level to start grinding gear.
PvP in UO was completely seperate from PvE after the Trammel/Felucca split - something GW2 is also doing with the Mists and the instant action conquest mode being fully seperate from the "main" world.
With no real gear curve in UO, crafting was more about supplying a need and for cosmetic items, something GW2 shares at a basic level.
Obviously, there are further parallels and of course also a number of things vastly different, like housing/gear loss on death etc. but I think the "spirit" of UO in a very real sense is trying to be captured and replicated by GW2.
It's just about... playing.. however you want. There is no end game, the whole game is end game, exploration and adventure and combat with both players and monsters.
And perhaps above all else, a return to the MMORPG being a truly multiplayer experience.
MMOs of late have been OK at the competitive aspect of multiplayer, but with such a huge focus on exclusivity via instanced dungeons and raids and everything being "solo" I think the modern MMO has lost at lot of the cooperative elements that make multiplayer fun.
GW2 is trying really hard to bring back that sense of comradery.
Make some new friends and play with them XD
It's the people that keep me in MMOs. Dress up the game however you want, in the end it's about the people you grow to love or hate.
Good games just make it easier to play with friends.
I played WoW for years because of the PEOPLE not the game.
Play for fun. Play to win. Play for perfection. Play with friends. Play in another world. Why do you play?
UO was the first true MMO. Ultima was a GREAT RPG series. So the idea of playing it with other people to become the avatar was amazing. I remember playing everquest, and wondering why there was so much attacking of other people, aren't we all suppose to be like the characters in an RPG.
I remember back in the day before wow, wow came about because peopel complained about no "solo" content. You had to form groups and go out and adventure. It was modeled after dnd. This movement got the Wows and everything after. But the folk who were excited about playing a real rpg online got shafted.
MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).
Yes, but the big marketing ploy that differenicated it from other games previously was that in other games, parties were fairly prominent. Wow was the game that redifined the party dynamic, defining the "trilogy" and making it a game that parties were optional. In a sense, it was the original casual mmo. It was the game designed that clearly told you what role you would be doing and how you should play it. So if you did get in a group, it was clear what you'd be doing.
For that matter did anyone pay FFXI? Some of the slowest progression I've seen in a game, but with little emphasis on gear or loot and almost forced grouping. Yet it was still fun because of the people you met.
With GW2 taking the emphasis off of oneself and gear I think the people we meet and group with will keep us coming back for the fun, instead of the WoW standard of coming back to grind gear with random players who either don't socialize or are just down right rude and no fun to play with.
I've never seen an MMO that doesn't rely on repetition for it's long term game play. In fact, it could be argued that some MMOs rely on it from start to finish. GW2 relies on it much less heavily than others. That will keep it engaging for most of us, for the long term.
I hate to be honest but GW 2 is about exploration lol. I'm not even going to elaborate its too obvious it's sad.I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Sadly, I never got a chance to play Oblivion so I wouldn't know.
Ll well see it depends on common sense, Gw 2 is a MMO and oblivion was not, one could see why it's a mistake in a single player game rather than a MMO. It's all about the mind and how you interpret things, I've played oblivion but it's too obvious on why it not being an MMO makes a huge impact on scaling lol. Pretty much in obvlion since your by yourself a lot of easy fights would be long as hell. Skyrim and oblivion both had exploration as well.I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).
My point exactly, grinding new gear isn't new content, it's a new texture on the same content from 3 years ago
Yea but I'm saying to say what GW 2 is only focus on those two things isn't right, because we know they added exploration in Gw 2, that can give those who like to explore in games like Skyrim that in an MMO, it's why it is more of a themebox than theme park, it's more of a theme park but to me sandboxes had good exploration, which to me Guild wars is looking to have as well. It's there as a option you know, like and if ou really like it you can do it. It's not linear even with events because you don't have to follow a path or chain. You feel me bro?I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Yea but I'm saying to say what GW 2 is only focus on those two things isn't right, because we know they added exploration in Gw 2, that can give those who like to explore in games like Skyrim that in an MMO, it's why it is more of a themebox than theme park, it's more of a theme park but to me sandboxes had good exploration, which to me Guild wars is looking to have as well. It's there as a option you know, like and if ou really like it you can do it. It's not linear even with events because you don't have to follow a path or chain. You feel me bro?
Putting the M&ms back in MMOI wasn't in beta and can't be 100% sure but it certainly seems there are enough activities in GW2 to choose from. And as for repetitiveness... every game is repetitive, every in-game activity is repetitive. I did Zul'Gurub and Molten Core so many times in vanilla WoW that my main was actually exalted with Zandalar and Hydraxian.
MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).