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Bioware just made the same ol' mistake.

2

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  • Demmi77Demmi77 Member UncommonPosts: 229

    here is a simple truth that people have to understand. I played the game to 50 and quit shortly after. Fanboys will argue but these are facts, facts which ruined the game for alot of people.

     

    these are in no order of importance.

    the space combat is a minigame, with zero depth. Some people don't mind, but a decent sized percentage of players were insulted by the space combat. Their argument "its star wars" , space combat is a big part of the star wars universe. In my personal opinion , space combat wasn't a make or break feature.

    Most of you have played wow. You know how you roam around and there's boars, and random monsters. When you get to your quest there are the mobs you kill. Some of them have preset spawn points,. a few roamers. The mob layout does have some variety though. IT is a layout of  mobs, but alot of them have random spawn locations etc. Swtor, copies this layout but does it worse. Remember westfall, the gnoll camps. Every mob in every dungeon follows the exact same format throughout the game. Combat starts to lose it's luster at around lvl 30. You realize where you are going, there will be silver +2 normals, or 3 normals sometimes four. It never changes ever.

    There is always an elite in a dungeon or some harder mob , in every dungeon, same layout, open world same layout.  this is what drives alot of players to get that "dead world" feel. There is not much interaction within the world. Everything feels so "still".

     

    the world and community. The game is sharded, fact. The game cannot handle, populated areas i guess, i am not techically savvy to understand why this had to be. There is a very large lack of an open world. THe problem is the worlds are huge, this adds to the emptiness feeling. Big world , lack of people.

     

    pvp. i played solely for pvp, i enjoyed it for a while. Problems, open world was in a terrible state. So bad they shut it down as a objective. There are a ton of issues with gear,  balance (1.2 did the exact opposite of what the community wanted). I do enjoy the combat but the amount of keybinds you need is horrendous. So the game has about 15 unique ablities that are used frequently on my marauder. With no macros, it becomes a chore. Even with everything bound i feel like im stretching one eye to look at my cooldowns. WIth no ui customization and macros it made competitive pvp a nightmare to even think of.

    alot of my pvp feelings are personal, it is ultimately why i left the game.

     

    the story is great, but that's all the game is to alot of people. You play the story and you are done. I know myself, my guild and a handful of friends, didn't want another wow. The game is an exact replica of the wow model. Get to 50, dailies, groups, raids,. tokens/raid gear. we, as gamers, have gone through this model for the past 10 years in mmos.

    crafting, lack of sandbox, off - the - rails progression, etc.. are just a few of the reason that put alot of people off. Star wars fans want alot of depth, a social atmosphere, a world where they are free to build their own adventure. Star wars the old republic lacks all of this.

    I am sure it will hold a niche crowd hoping for a better world in bioware's galaxy. I myself have been done, but i enjoy reading constructive thoughts on games, that i want to succeed.

     

    i just wish sincerely they'd look at what people want in an mmo.

  • iceman00iceman00 Member Posts: 1,363

    Originally posted by Merdur

    It's people like this that make mmo's fail, you want everything to be 100% WoW, well WoW wasn't built in a day. It took WoW 5 years and TONs of bitching from the playerbase for them to do ANY of that. I remember in BC when you couldn't even put heroics. I remember in vanilla, BC, WOTLK, and cata when lower level dungeons were a thing of the past and NO ONE RAN THEM so finding a group was impossible. How do you suggest a game developer MAKES people play the lower level instances? If you wanna run them then find a guild a get some friends in there to burn your thru it otherwise GL finding one. Oh and the needing on loot in heroics thing isn't that big a deal, if you don't want it to happen then don't run with them.

    Bioware said they wanted to make it like WoW.  Well guess what?  You try to compare yourself to WoW, people are going to expect WoW.

    And again, enough with the tired line about how WoW was at launch.  This ain't launch.  And it isn't 2004 anymore.  You gotta take care of this stuff at launch, not 5 years down the line.  Simply put, the majority of MMO's will not see a stable population 5 years down the line.  At the rate they are going, that includes TOR, which will almost certainly be F2P within a year, and not one of the cash cow F2P ones.

  • GamerFunGamerFun Member Posts: 28

    Considering EA Bioware is the worst labeled company on the planet I wouldn't expect any less than lying, screw ups and false advertising from them. EA is such a terrible company that they out beat Bank of America as the worst company in the world by anonomous votes. SWTOR = single player RPG not an MMORPG. I beta tested as well, and everything bug or exploit I wrote up never got fixed. EA Bioware just needs to go bankrupt, they're incomptence is revolting.

    MMORPG & FPS Gamer Veteran of seventeen years.

  • iceman00iceman00 Member Posts: 1,363

    Originally posted by ktanner3

    Originally posted by Kitane

    Isn't it funny how guilds have gone from being a group of  friends playing a game together, to just tools that one is supposed to join so as to be assured of having a ready group at hand. In other words, just people to use.  No wonder most guilds these days quickly crumble under the wait of bickering and bad feelings.

    Never mind that the "just get in a guild" solution simply doesn't work anyway. You need to join a massive guild, with players at all level ranges, and be extremely lucky to have enough people that are at your level range and play the same times you do. The "just join a guild" stupidity is just an easy pseudo solution thrown out there by people that either are in a long standing guild already, and so didn't face the issues most players faced, or people that simply don't have a clue, and like to repeat inane catch phrases they read somewhere else.

    What a bunch of B.S. My guild has at most 30-40 people playing at one time. It is hardly "massive." Yet there is usually always someone there to help out with a quest or heroic(regardless of level) and there is regularly scheduled group activities every week for the operations. No one is feeling "used."

    If someone is going to whine about developers not creating enough tools to help them group, then it's reasonable to ask why they aren't using the ones available. Why wouldn't someone who likes doing group related content join a guild? That's like someone  who wants to be an actor refusing to join the screen actors guild and then complaining about not getting any work in hollywood.

     

     

    You missed his point.  Guilds are supposed to be more than just "Group b**hes."  They are supposed to be like-minded players set on certain goals, providing fellowship and working towards a common goal.

    Some guilds are pvp-centric.  Others are eco centric (though not really in this game.)  Some are focused on nothing but uber raids.  Others are RP guilds.  And still others are just casual screw around guilds for leveling purposes like you describe.  With the exception of the RP guild, I've led or helped manage every type listed.  Right now in TOR there is lacking any real reason for a dedicated guild to form and stay together.  There isn't enough interdependency in econ.  There isn't any motivation for pvp outside of running the same tired BG's over and over again, and since the open world aspect is seriously lacking, there's few chances for genuine pvp rivalries to develop.

    The endgame raids aren't compelling enough to keep people running them again and again, even on "hardmode" or "nightmare" (raid guilds were blowing through even nightmare content without any pause just a few weeks after launch.)  There really aren't any moments where you are in awe of the scriped pve or tactics involved.

    There are no guild halls, as of yet no guild ships, no guild projects, etc.  So social/RP guilds don't feel a reason to join a guild.

    Outside of finding someone to do groups, there really is a lacking purpose for guilds.  And most guilds that last beyond 2-3 months are more than just a glorified LFG tool.

  • AldersAlders Member RarePosts: 2,207

    Originally posted by Zylaxx

    Originally posted by Alders

    I've said this before and i'll say it again:

    The 4-man party size is stupid and contributed to most of the issues brought up here.  When you only have 2 dps per tank, you're going to have issues finding groups.

    Sorry the problem is the Holy Trinity.

     

    I have said it time and time again, SWTOR was a game begging to be made with the removal of the Holy Trinity in mind.

     

     

    To late to fix that now, the only soution is to create a dungeon finder ASAP.

     

    Oh i completely agree with you but it was never going to happen so i didn't bring it up.  Party size on the other hand should have been obvious to any dev that actually plays MMO's.  4 just doesn't work within the trinity system.

  • FennrisFennris Member UncommonPosts: 277

    The only thing I'll give the OP is that there should be a cross-server lfg for flashpoints (and warones with brackets) like Wow has.  I know that BW wants to add versions of them but I think that they said they don't have the hardware for it yet. 

    Making money isn't a problem.  And they have added numerous things to spend it on since release.

    The auction house is not fancy but it is usable if that's your thing.  I don't see it as a core feature of the game and seriously doubt that most people do (but yes, some like playing auction house games).  Crafting is broken but is not a crisis; it's obviously not meant to be a core part of the game either, just a nice to have for those that want to do it.

     

  • DrakxiiDrakxii Member Posts: 594

    Originally posted by ktanner3

    Originally posted by Merdur

    It's people like this that make mmo's fail, you want everything to be 100% WoW, well WoW wasn't built in a day. It took WoW 5 years and TONs of bitching from the playerbase for them to do ANY of that. I remember in BC when you couldn't even put heroics. I remember in vanilla, BC, WOTLK, and cata when lower level dungeons were a thing of the past and NO ONE RAN THEM so finding a group was impossible. How do you suggest a game developer MAKES people play the lower level instances? If you wanna run them then find a guild a get some friends in there to burn your thru it otherwise GL finding one. Oh and the needing on loot in heroics thing isn't that big a deal, if you don't want it to happen then don't run with them.

    Exactly.

    I love the people that complain about the lack of group mechanics and yet don't join guilds. If you guys really care that much about grouping and being able to play with your "type" of player, why aren't you in a guild?

    It's like people that complain about there being no open PVP. Head over to Tattoine right now and visit Outlaws Den. Before this Rakgoul thing very few people were using it. Now that there is an objective directing you there more players are going and having fun. The quesiton I have is, why do players need an objective or reward to participate in PVP? What happened to PVP just for fun? Long as I have a designated place that I know is a PVP area, I'm happy to pop in and mix it up with the other side.

    Till after wow I never hear that you need to join a guild to find groups.   Picking up groups in EQ, SWG, and yes even WoW was easy.   You know why?   Because on like the morons on at SWTOR they put the level 10 group content in the same area as the level 10 solo content.  Did SWTOR do this?  Nope all the heroics are many zones away from the solo content because...?   Not mention that if you did want do the little heroic content that was in the correct zone you had to both find a group but get them in the same damned shard because being the same zone just wasn't enough. 

     

    As for pvp.   What do you expect when you make a game about leading people down tunnels do you really expect people just do things for the heck of it?   Nope the people that are still going to play SWTOR are the ones that want to be lead by the hand, because swtor scared of the rest way before they were even allow to open pvp.

     

    Also while I get that that not every MMO should be like WoW.  If you going to make your game so fing close to WoW like SWTOR did at the very least you take the good things about WoW as well as the boring static worlds and classes.  

     

    (Also cross server LFG tools kill communities... not that SWTOR had one to began with it's solo stories and way out of the heroics.)

    I will not play a game with a cash shop ever again. A dev job should be to make the game better not make me pay so it sucks less.

  • iceman00iceman00 Member Posts: 1,363

    Originally posted by Drakxii

     

    (Also cross server LFG tools kill communities... not that SWTOR had one to began with it's solo stories and way out of the heroics.)

    Yeah.  They might kill them, but you really can't kill what is already dead.

  • mikahrmikahr Member Posts: 1,066

    PvP was "fixed"? When?

    They are "fixing" PvE, without ANY consideration for PvP, and they actually reduced PvP to sideattraction for PvEers.

    You got something wrong way around, sorry.

  • GreyhooffGreyhooff Member Posts: 654

    The arrogance of the developers is the #1 reason why 1.2 failed and why SWTOR is dying faster than any other MMO in history.

    My server was ok before 1.2, after 1 week it is now totally dead.

    image

  • mbrodiembrodie Member RarePosts: 1,504

    the whole.. "look at WoW at launch" argument is kinda invalid, look at it like this, lets say another game came out back in 2004 and paved the way for MMO's today.. blizzard wouldnt say hey we're making an MMO copy that one.. they would do what they did with what was available back when they created WoW.. look at all the features of the current MMO's and create a game cetralized around compononents from each game... and i garauntee they would release with QOL features expected by todays standards

  • AntariousAntarious Member UncommonPosts: 2,843

    Originally posted by Greyhooff

    The arrogance of the developers is the #1 reason why 1.2 failed and why SWTOR is dying faster than any other MMO in history.

    My server was ok before 1.2, after 1 week it is now totally dead.

     

    To me the sad thing is that during beta the actual employees I dealt with a few times... were great people (not arrogant/knew what they were doing).   There were three issues I reported where they emailed or messaged me to meet them in game to recreate the issue.

     

    The arrogant and completely clueless about MMO people... are the ones "in charge" that you see posting.   Not all of them... but the people who should not be in charge are pretty obvious. 

     

    Being the creative director of a single player game really has no relevance to being in charge of anything with an MMO.   In my opinion its pretty obvious why it has no relevance when you look at TOR.

     

    I do honestly think that TOR is a great game if you look at it from a non MMO viewpoint or as a single player game with an online multi-player option.   If they had someone that really understood long term retention and the kinds of interactions an MMO needs... I think TOR would have been much better as an MMO.

     

    this is of course all just my opinion...

     

    *edit* to me it just kind of goes back to a story that was told once on a forum.   If the guy in charge asks you to put a toilet in the middle of the kitchen floor... that's what you do.   You know it really doesn't make sense but if you want to be employed that's what you do.

     

    This is why the people in charge have to have MMO experience.   They are the ones directing everyone else and it doesn't matter how good your workers bees are.. when you have a moron in charge.

     

     

     

     

     

     

  • GiddianGiddian Member UncommonPosts: 418

    Do people have nothing beter to do than to post negative things about a game they clearly don't like?  Does it do anything?  I play the game because I enjoy it. and there will be those who don't.  So my suggestion to all those people who think their opinion is in the Majority, Make that perfect game yourself since you know so much more than the Devs. I would love to see what you come up with. Last I saw SWTOR had 1.7 M Subs. that's NOT a Fail. has the numbers gone DOwn? Yes, Are some servers baron? Yes. They will combine servers and all will be good. But it doesnt matter. Negative people will continue to complain to make themselves feel better.   Play a Game you Like and quit complaining about ones you don't. Do us ALL that favor

    image

  • MechanismMechanism Member UncommonPosts: 143
    I'd love for swtor to be a better game but how will my silence about its issues do any good?
  • GiddianGiddian Member UncommonPosts: 418

    Originally posted by Mechanism

    I'd love for swtor to be a better game but how will my silence about its issues do any good?

    People say the devs don't listen to you, so how does your bitching help?

    image

  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 4,990

    Originally posted by ktanner3

    Exactly.

    I love the people that complain about the lack of group mechanics and yet don't join guilds. If you guys really care that much about grouping and being able to play with your "type" of player, why aren't you in a guild?

    Really? Because I never join a guild usually until the higher levels in these games after I have gotten a feel for the guilds and players out there on my server. Only game I ever had trouble grouping like I did in this one however to a much lesser extent was LotR due to the chained book quests making it tough to find players at times on the same part as yourself (back when they were mostly group oriented). The game design and lack of a unified global chat channel makes it incredibly difficult if you happen to be on a less populated server. Incidentally, there were more than a few players I ran across that were in guilds that still complained or appeared to have trouble finding groups in this game. So being in a guild is not an answer for everything. Nor is it necessary from games I have played. The benefit of them for me has always been the community aspect, bartering/crafting, and raiding come end game.

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • MechanismMechanism Member UncommonPosts: 143
    But do you think they're listening?
  • WhiteLanternWhiteLantern Member RarePosts: 3,319

    Hating on TOR and it's "fundamental design flaws" is sooooo 4 months ago.

    I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil

  • eyeswideopeneyeswideopen Member Posts: 2,414

    Originally posted by Giddian

    Do people have nothing beter to do than to post negative things about a game they clearly don't like?  Does it do anything?  I play the game because I enjoy it. and there will be those who don't.  So my suggestion to all those people who think their opinion is in the Majority, Make that perfect game yourself since you know so much more than the Devs. I would love to see what you come up with. Last I saw SWTOR had 1.7 M Subs. that's NOT a Fail. has the numbers gone DOwn? Yes, Are some servers baron? Yes. They will combine servers and all will be good. But it doesnt matter. Negative people will continue to complain to make themselves feel better.   Play a Game you Like and quit complaining about ones you don't. Do us ALL that favor

    Do us all a favor and stick to the official heavily moderated forums if you don't like negativity. These forums  belong to neither EAware nor their fanbots and as such, people can give their opinions as they see fit regardless of whether or not YOU like it.

    Door's that way ----->.

    -Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
    -And on the 8th day, man created God.-

  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 4,990

    Originally posted by WhiteLantern

    Hating on TOR and it's "fundamental design flaws" is sooooo 4 months ago.

    Maybe for you it is but for those new to the game or wish to discuss the matter still it isn't at all.

    Besides that comeback is about as dated as you can get.

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • ktanner3ktanner3 Member UncommonPosts: 4,063

    Originally posted by WhiteLantern

    Hating on TOR and it's "fundamental design flaws" is sooooo 4 months ago.

    Come on, what would some of these people talk about if they couldn't whine about a game over and over that they have no interest in?

    Currently Playing: World of Warcraft

  • GiddianGiddian Member UncommonPosts: 418

    Originally posted by eyeswideopen

    Originally posted by Giddian

    Do people have nothing beter to do than to post negative things about a game they clearly don't like?  Does it do anything?  I play the game because I enjoy it. and there will be those who don't.  So my suggestion to all those people who think their opinion is in the Majority, Make that perfect game yourself since you know so much more than the Devs. I would love to see what you come up with. Last I saw SWTOR had 1.7 M Subs. that's NOT a Fail. has the numbers gone DOwn? Yes, Are some servers baron? Yes. They will combine servers and all will be good. But it doesnt matter. Negative people will continue to complain to make themselves feel better.   Play a Game you Like and quit complaining about ones you don't. Do us ALL that favor

    Do us all a favor and stick to the official heavily moderated forums if you don't like negativity. These forums  belong to neither EAware nor their fanbots and as such, people can give their opinions as they see fit regardless of whether or not YOU like it.

    Door's that way ----->.

    and for all the Crybaby's   <------- Door's That Way

    image

  • eyeswideopeneyeswideopen Member Posts: 2,414

    Originally posted by Giddian

    Originally posted by eyeswideopen


    Originally posted by Giddian

    Do people have nothing beter to do than to post negative things about a game they clearly don't like?  Does it do anything?  I play the game because I enjoy it. and there will be those who don't.  So my suggestion to all those people who think their opinion is in the Majority, Make that perfect game yourself since you know so much more than the Devs. I would love to see what you come up with. Last I saw SWTOR had 1.7 M Subs. that's NOT a Fail. has the numbers gone DOwn? Yes, Are some servers baron? Yes. They will combine servers and all will be good. But it doesnt matter. Negative people will continue to complain to make themselves feel better.   Play a Game you Like and quit complaining about ones you don't. Do us ALL that favor

    Do us all a favor and stick to the official heavily moderated forums if you don't like negativity. These forums  belong to neither EAware nor their fanbots and as such, people can give their opinions as they see fit regardless of whether or not YOU like it.

    Door's that way ----->.

    and for all the Crybaby's   <------- Door's That Way

    You're not understanding. You have no pull here. No mods to call and have them delete all the bad things you don't like said about SWToR. The "crybabies" as you call them are just as welcome as the sycophants.

    -Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
    -And on the 8th day, man created God.-

  • DenambrenDenambren Member UncommonPosts: 399

    This game ultimately failed because it was designed to be a single-player game with some MMO elements sprinkled in.

     

    Not quite complete enough of a single-player title to make it good for single-player fans, and not quite complete enough of a MMO to make it good for MMO fans. 

  • ktanner3ktanner3 Member UncommonPosts: 4,063

    Originally posted by Denambren

    This game ultimately failed because it was designed to be a single-player game with some MMO elements sprinkled in.

     

    Not quite complete enough of a single-player title to make it good for single-player fans, and not quite complete enough of a MMO to make it good for MMO fans. 

    Some of you guys have a very weird standard for failed MMOs. I guess  all the people I see in fleet that are queing for Warzones along with all of us that group every week for operations missed the memo that TOR has failed and we should save our money for whatever MMO meets your guys high and mighty standards. What MMO out there should we all be playing?

    Currently Playing: World of Warcraft

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