since the game is a FPS and not really an RPG at heart, there isn't much in social gear or things for visual looks. So I am thinking of what types of things they will have at their item store. Everything that comes to mind is Pay2Win type gear and stuff, which isn't appealing to me.
How do you make a game F2P and not Pay2Win in this type of MMO?
Why cosmetic items of course !! I would totally buy items that can get the tank/jet i ride pink in colour.
They aren't, how else do you think they will get people to shell out money.
I am sure pay to win is the idea and they know that it will generate a lot of money too.
“It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that's all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.”
since the game is a FPS and not really an RPG at heart, there isn't much in social gear or things for visual looks. So I am thinking of what types of things they will have at their item store. Everything that comes to mind is Pay2Win type gear and stuff, which isn't appealing to me.
How do you make a game F2P and not Pay2Win in this type of MMO?
Look, as sad as it makes me, the new norm is pay2win. I don't know a single MMO coming out in the next year that isn't pay2win.
Very sad...
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind" 1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN 2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
The game is free and the game is good like p2p game. So they deserve the money for that one. They can do what ever they want from p2w to what ever i don'T care. I will pay what ever they're shooting at me cuz this game is gonna be the best fps ever.
I expect to see lots of "time-savers" in the cash shop as well. Increases to the amount of XP you gain and such. Boosts like that are usually popular (see Hi-Rez).
I imagine they will have extra loadout slots you can buy as well and things like that. That could be very useful for switching roles on the fly as well. I'd pay for that.
Sidegrades for weapons as well. Unlockable classes maybe, stuff like that isn't necessarily P2W.
Cosmetics might be a big seller, but I think things like the above listed couple of items would be bigger. I don't think an all cosmetic shop will work for a totally free FPS.
Sony reps have stated numerous times they were looking at Riot Games and League of Legends in how a Free to Play model was properly set up in taking the lead as a E Sport and appealing to millions of players.
That said, I expect nearly everything in the game to be obtainable for free via playtime, excluding cosmetic items and possibly extremely exotic items. I also expect a free player to have to play for half a year solid or more to unlock a suitably wide array of possibilities, like LoL requires.
The real money will be made on time savers.
I honestly hope they go this route and they turn this game into a gobal community leader of a FPS.
i'm more worried about how they'll deal with aimbotters
hell if I can just recreate a new account when banned i might just aimbot myself and lol as I grief people
They wont be able to deal with aimbotters no company in the history of shooters has been able to stop them. and being a game that is free it will be infested with them.
A good way is to just not use instant-hit weapons and make everything projectile based. Aimbots cannot predict player movement like a real person can.
But really developers need to be looking at how aimbots actually work and finding ways to fool them. Ones which lock on to certain colours are common (at least they were in CS), they can easily be broken by hiding multi-coloured textures inside walls etc.
Anyway back on topic :P
I suspect they will offer "XP booster" type packages similar to what Hi-Rez do with global agenda. Where you get 30 days of double XP gain and some credit to buy shop items, if you buy one every month it would be about the same as paying a normal subscription.
i'm more worried about how they'll deal with aimbotters
hell if I can just recreate a new account when banned i might just aimbot myself and lol as I grief people
They wont be able to deal with aimbotters no company in the history of shooters has been able to stop them. and being a game that is free it will be infested with them.
Anyway back on topic :P
I suspect they will offer "XP booster" type packages similar to what Hi-Rez do with global agenda. Where you get 30 days of double XP gain and some credit to buy shop items, if you buy one every month it would be about the same as paying a normal subscription.
Yep, this has been confirmed. However, Higby recently said in an interview that the boost will take up one of your 3 implant slots. Seems weird to me that they would make you trade off gear for a boost. Almost like they're discouraging you from buying the darn thing.
i'm more worried about how they'll deal with aimbotters
hell if I can just recreate a new account when banned i might just aimbot myself and lol as I grief people
They wont be able to deal with aimbotters no company in the history of shooters has been able to stop them. and being a game that is free it will be infested with them.
Anyway back on topic :P
I suspect they will offer "XP booster" type packages similar to what Hi-Rez do with global agenda. Where you get 30 days of double XP gain and some credit to buy shop items, if you buy one every month it would be about the same as paying a normal subscription.
Yep, this has been confirmed. However, Higby recently said in an interview that the boost will take up one of your 3 implant slots. Seems weird to me that they would make you trade off gear for a boost. Almost like they're discouraging you from buying the darn thing.
That is to avoid making it pay to win. If you pay for one thing to make it easier, you loose something else.
I've addressed this a few times in interviews in the past, but here's the basic gist. Planetside 2 has three fundamental types of items:
Power adding items - items such as grandes, med kits, certain types of implants (like a run speed booster), these items fundamentally alter player power and are acquired exclusively with resources earned in game
Playstyle items - these are sidegrades for vehicles and weapons, these switch up playstyle, and as much as possible are balanced against one-another to not add absolute power. These are available for Resources earned in game or Station Cash.
Non-gameplay affecting items - things like cosmetic skins, resource or xp boosts, etc. These don't have any impact on moment-to-moment gameplay and therefore player power and are available for Station Cash
So, as you can see, anything that gives any gameplay impact of any kind is always going to be available through gameplay. You wont be able to unlock a gameplay affecting item exclusively for Station Cash, there will be an in-game acquisition path as well, you're just bypassing (or shortcutting) it by using Station Cash.
Additionally, none of our item sidegrades really give a discrete power advantage, and those items which do (such as grenades, etc) are available exclusively for in-game resources. So, while you can unlock different playstyle choices with Station Cash, you're not really buying an advantage overall, you're just unlocking different situational breadth.
I've addressed this a few times in interviews in the past, but here's the basic gist. Planetside 2 has three fundamental types of items:
Power adding items - items such as grandes, med kits, certain types of implants (like a run speed booster), these items fundamentally alter player power and are acquired exclusively with resources earned in game
Playstyle items - these are sidegrades for vehicles and weapons, these switch up playstyle, and as much as possible are balanced against one-another to not add absolute power. These are available for Resources earned in game or Station Cash.
Non-gameplay affecting items - things like cosmetic skins, resource or xp boosts, etc. These don't have any impact on moment-to-moment gameplay and therefore player power and are available for Station Cash
So, as you can see, anything that gives any gameplay impact of any kind is always going to be available through gameplay. You wont be able to unlock a gameplay affecting item exclusively for Station Cash, there will be an in-game acquisition path as well, you're just bypassing (or shortcutting) it by using Station Cash.
Additionally, none of our item sidegrades really give a discrete power advantage, and those items which do (such as grenades, etc) are available exclusively for in-game resources. So, while you can unlock different playstyle choices with Station Cash, you're not really buying an advantage overall, you're just unlocking different situational breadth.
thanks for posting this,
ill sound like a snark bastard for saying this but probably be best when Higby posts up a video physically showing how the ship(s) will work for the game, that way it'll cut down on a whole lot of confusion.
I've addressed this a few times in interviews in the past, but here's the basic gist. Planetside 2 has three fundamental types of items:
Power adding items - items such as grandes, med kits, certain types of implants (like a run speed booster), these items fundamentally alter player power and are acquired exclusively with resources earned in game
Playstyle items - these are sidegrades for vehicles and weapons, these switch up playstyle, and as much as possible are balanced against one-another to not add absolute power. These are available for Resources earned in game or Station Cash.
Non-gameplay affecting items - things like cosmetic skins, resource or xp boosts, etc. These don't have any impact on moment-to-moment gameplay and therefore player power and are available for Station Cash
So, as you can see, anything that gives any gameplay impact of any kind is always going to be available through gameplay. You wont be able to unlock a gameplay affecting item exclusively for Station Cash, there will be an in-game acquisition path as well, you're just bypassing (or shortcutting) it by using Station Cash.
Additionally, none of our item sidegrades really give a discrete power advantage, and those items which do (such as grenades, etc) are available exclusively for in-game resources. So, while you can unlock different playstyle choices with Station Cash, you're not really buying an advantage overall, you're just unlocking different situational breadth.
thanks for posting this,
ill sound like a snark bastard for saying this but probably be best when Higby posts up a video physically showing how the ship(s) will work for the game, that way it'll cut down on a whole lot of confusion.
No problem. I can see one complaint people are going to have right off the bat though. It will be possible to acquire more resources with money through boosts and the subscription option. Those resources can then be spent on "gameplay affecting items." This will give people an advantage in the field so to speak.
It's not the worst thing they could do, and at least there aren't going to be "gun rentals" or something stupid like that, but if the reaction to the GW 2 cash shop is any indication this could upset some people.
Personally, I'm going to make it a point to spend money in the cash shop regularly. I think if their current model doesn't work they will be left with little choice but to move the cash shop closer to P2W territory. I think this is important not only to support the game, but also to keep them from wanting to do something stupid.
I've addressed this a few times in interviews in the past, but here's the basic gist. Planetside 2 has three fundamental types of items:
Power adding items - items such as grandes, med kits, certain types of implants (like a run speed booster), these items fundamentally alter player power and are acquired exclusively with resources earned in game
Playstyle items - these are sidegrades for vehicles and weapons, these switch up playstyle, and as much as possible are balanced against one-another to not add absolute power. These are available for Resources earned in game or Station Cash.
Non-gameplay affecting items - things like cosmetic skins, resource or xp boosts, etc. These don't have any impact on moment-to-moment gameplay and therefore player power and are available for Station Cash
So, as you can see, anything that gives any gameplay impact of any kind is always going to be available through gameplay. You wont be able to unlock a gameplay affecting item exclusively for Station Cash, there will be an in-game acquisition path as well, you're just bypassing (or shortcutting) it by using Station Cash.
Additionally, none of our item sidegrades really give a discrete power advantage, and those items which do (such as grenades, etc) are available exclusively for in-game resources. So, while you can unlock different playstyle choices with Station Cash, you're not really buying an advantage overall, you're just unlocking different situational breadth.
thanks for posting this,
ill sound like a snark bastard for saying this but probably be best when Higby posts up a video physically showing how the ship(s) will work for the game, that way it'll cut down on a whole lot of confusion.
No problem. I can see one complaint people are going to have right off the bat though. It will be possible to acquire more resources with money through boosts and the subscription option. Those resources can then be spent on "gameplay affecting items." This will give people an advantage in the field so to speak.
It's not the worst thing they could do, and at least there aren't going to be "gun rentals" or something stupid like that, but if the reaction to the GW 2 cash shop is any indication this could upset some people.
Personally, I'm going to make it a point to spend money in the cash shop regularly. I think if their current model doesn't work they will be left with little choice but to move the cash shop closer to P2W territory. I think this is important not only to support the game, but also to keep them from wanting to do something stupid.
This is pretty much the same argument as saying there's no point to buy Battlefield 3 anymore, as everyone else has the better weapons and mods to them already, doesn't it? Some play more, they get their sh*t faster, some spend money on it. All the cosmetics will be more than enough, market has already proven itself, people LOVE cosmetics. Also you can buy the guns with RL cash (shown in the videos) however, you can get the same mods, weapons, vehicle upgrades with ingame currency as well. So its pretty much "Power level by cash" instead of "pay to win", which is pretty much the only supported model of cash shops.
okai, the poster above kinda approached the REAL prob we will face once PS2 hits the market:
helios. he and his artificial aiming crew kinda kill every shooter out there.
in the last ages there has been like one shooter that had no support from this aimbot, and that was tribes ascent. they cancled the aimbot support since it did not really work out (bullets dont hit instant in tribes ascent, therefor no bot - or at least not the shit helios coded - can aim for you since you need to kinda.... think to hit)
if planetside 2 won't find a solution to the aimbot prob, it will face the same end as all points bulletin.
not flaming here, dont get me wrong, i love planetside. but i fear we might get screwed by externals if that problem is not approached propperly.
therefor, the REAL pay 2 win problem is if they pay for their aimbot.
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
i'm more worried about how they'll deal with aimbotters
hell if I can just recreate a new account when banned i might just aimbot myself and lol as I grief people
They wont be able to deal with aimbotters no company in the history of shooters has been able to stop them. and being a game that is free it will be infested with them.
SOE will be able to deal with them because this is a PC game that acts different then say COD on the PC. Aimbots on consoles are easier to use because companys are limited to the xbox or PS3s updates and one someone find a way to beat that version the bots arnt stopped until the next update for that console/game.
Any AIM bot has to interact with the game client and right now SOEs launcher scans the exe for modules that are not suppose to be loaded into it. While theres a way around it by simply closing the launcher after you load your game this will not be possible in the future. Will this stop the really good hackers ? No but it will stop the avg joe from doing it and limit the use.
honestly i really REALLY hope your right, i have been dealing with stupid cheaters for years in shooters and im at the point now were im just over it. when games get to infested i just quit because im tired of dealing with it.
I know they will never stop the really good cheaters but stopping the average joe from googleing hacks and getting away with it will be a step in the right direction.
Aimbotting is pathetic.
It's the sole reason I did not purchase CoDMWF3 during the free 3-day multiplayer weekend (PC). It's completely infested.
A client-powered game will definitely make aimbotting a lesser threat, especially with the power of weekly or even daily updates to crash newly discovered bot programs.
The aimbotting thing is tough. I wish that companies would devote the time and legal resources to stopping this crap that they usually devote to piracy.
Not that piracy is really an issue for SOE (due to the nature of their games) but think of all the effort and money expended by companies in creating draconian DRM measures or fighting piracy sights. Heck, even some of the more asinine intellectual property, copyright, and patent lawsuits that drag on for years.
I wish these companies would divert some of those resources towards an actually worthwhile cause that, shocker here, actually improves the freaking quality of the game for your paying customers instead of harming them.
Why don't we see their legal teams doing anything to stop this? Why isn't there more technology in games to stop these cheaters? Cheaters are far worse of a threat to online games than piracy ever will be.
What makes you think people dont want cosmetic items in an mmofps?
Some will and if the game were B2P that could have worked but now I don't see it bring in the revenue they need.
And we are talking SOE here, they introduced the itemshop in P2P MMOs, they will go too far.
They can make pretty fun (if somewhat buggy and unoptimized) games but they are as greedy as EA and activision if not worse. I am willing to bet on that this game will be pay2win.
PS2 has a small budget VERY small budget because they didnt have to license or buy a game engine.
Regards to pay2win. Has SOE ever showed a game where you pay2win ? EQ has had a cash shop for years nothing is pay2win and its f2p now and sitll nothing is pay2win. EQ2 is f2p nothing is pay2win. SOE has no history of puting pay2win items in the cash shop. If you do some research you will find plenty of quotes and video from producers in SOE saying what will be in the cash shop.
I also think you underestimate how many people will purchase cosmetics because they like the way they look or how often they change that look. Another thing that will be in the cash shop if i remember right is different weapons, but they wont be any better then what your character already has I.E IF you have a weapon that does x damage, but hate the look theres weapons that do the same damage but different looks in the cash shop and that is far from pay2win since you're getting the same weapon back just a different look.
People are overlooking also, the fact that depending on how the game mechanics work, it's possible to have pay items which effect game play, but in such a way that they only make things more conveniant and not more powerful in combat, like more ship slots in Pirates of the Burning Sea, or a subscription where while you're under it, you level up faster, or certain things which don't effect combat are less expensive.
Comments
Why cosmetic items of course !! I would totally buy items that can get the tank/jet i ride pink in colour.
They aren't, how else do you think they will get people to shell out money.
I am sure pay to win is the idea and they know that it will generate a lot of money too.
--John Ruskin
Look, as sad as it makes me, the new norm is pay2win. I don't know a single MMO coming out in the next year that isn't pay2win.
Very sad...
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
The game is free and the game is good like p2p game. So they deserve the money for that one. They can do what ever they want from p2w to what ever i don'T care. I will pay what ever they're shooting at me cuz this game is gonna be the best fps ever.
C:\Users\FF\Desktop\spin move.gif
I expect to see lots of "time-savers" in the cash shop as well. Increases to the amount of XP you gain and such. Boosts like that are usually popular (see Hi-Rez).
I imagine they will have extra loadout slots you can buy as well and things like that. That could be very useful for switching roles on the fly as well. I'd pay for that.
Sidegrades for weapons as well. Unlockable classes maybe, stuff like that isn't necessarily P2W.
Cosmetics might be a big seller, but I think things like the above listed couple of items would be bigger. I don't think an all cosmetic shop will work for a totally free FPS.
Shadow's Hand Guild
Open recruitment for
The Secret World - Dragons
Planetside 2 - Terran Republic
Tera - Dragonfall Server
http://www.shadowshand.com
Sony reps have stated numerous times they were looking at Riot Games and League of Legends in how a Free to Play model was properly set up in taking the lead as a E Sport and appealing to millions of players.
That said, I expect nearly everything in the game to be obtainable for free via playtime, excluding cosmetic items and possibly extremely exotic items. I also expect a free player to have to play for half a year solid or more to unlock a suitably wide array of possibilities, like LoL requires.
The real money will be made on time savers.
I honestly hope they go this route and they turn this game into a gobal community leader of a FPS.
A good way is to just not use instant-hit weapons and make everything projectile based. Aimbots cannot predict player movement like a real person can.
But really developers need to be looking at how aimbots actually work and finding ways to fool them. Ones which lock on to certain colours are common (at least they were in CS), they can easily be broken by hiding multi-coloured textures inside walls etc.
Anyway back on topic :P
I suspect they will offer "XP booster" type packages similar to what Hi-Rez do with global agenda. Where you get 30 days of double XP gain and some credit to buy shop items, if you buy one every month it would be about the same as paying a normal subscription.
Yep, this has been confirmed. However, Higby recently said in an interview that the boost will take up one of your 3 implant slots. Seems weird to me that they would make you trade off gear for a boost. Almost like they're discouraging you from buying the darn thing.
Shadow's Hand Guild
Open recruitment for
The Secret World - Dragons
Planetside 2 - Terran Republic
Tera - Dragonfall Server
http://www.shadowshand.com
That is to avoid making it pay to win. If you pay for one thing to make it easier, you loose something else.
Here's some good info from Higby on Reddit:
PSU Link
Reddit He's las0m on reddit btw.
Shadow's Hand Guild
Open recruitment for
The Secret World - Dragons
Planetside 2 - Terran Republic
Tera - Dragonfall Server
http://www.shadowshand.com
thanks for posting this,
ill sound like a snark bastard for saying this but probably be best when Higby posts up a video physically showing how the ship(s) will work for the game, that way it'll cut down on a whole lot of confusion.
No problem. I can see one complaint people are going to have right off the bat though. It will be possible to acquire more resources with money through boosts and the subscription option. Those resources can then be spent on "gameplay affecting items." This will give people an advantage in the field so to speak.
It's not the worst thing they could do, and at least there aren't going to be "gun rentals" or something stupid like that, but if the reaction to the GW 2 cash shop is any indication this could upset some people.
Personally, I'm going to make it a point to spend money in the cash shop regularly. I think if their current model doesn't work they will be left with little choice but to move the cash shop closer to P2W territory. I think this is important not only to support the game, but also to keep them from wanting to do something stupid.
Shadow's Hand Guild
Open recruitment for
The Secret World - Dragons
Planetside 2 - Terran Republic
Tera - Dragonfall Server
http://www.shadowshand.com
This is pretty much the same argument as saying there's no point to buy Battlefield 3 anymore, as everyone else has the better weapons and mods to them already, doesn't it? Some play more, they get their sh*t faster, some spend money on it. All the cosmetics will be more than enough, market has already proven itself, people LOVE cosmetics. Also you can buy the guns with RL cash (shown in the videos) however, you can get the same mods, weapons, vehicle upgrades with ingame currency as well. So its pretty much "Power level by cash" instead of "pay to win", which is pretty much the only supported model of cash shops.
okai, the poster above kinda approached the REAL prob we will face once PS2 hits the market:
helios. he and his artificial aiming crew kinda kill every shooter out there.
in the last ages there has been like one shooter that had no support from this aimbot, and that was tribes ascent. they cancled the aimbot support since it did not really work out (bullets dont hit instant in tribes ascent, therefor no bot - or at least not the shit helios coded - can aim for you since you need to kinda.... think to hit)
if planetside 2 won't find a solution to the aimbot prob, it will face the same end as all points bulletin.
not flaming here, dont get me wrong, i love planetside. but i fear we might get screwed by externals if that problem is not approached propperly.
therefor, the REAL pay 2 win problem is if they pay for their aimbot.
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
Aimbotting is pathetic.
It's the sole reason I did not purchase CoDMWF3 during the free 3-day multiplayer weekend (PC). It's completely infested.
A client-powered game will definitely make aimbotting a lesser threat, especially with the power of weekly or even daily updates to crash newly discovered bot programs.
Not that piracy is really an issue for SOE (due to the nature of their games) but think of all the effort and money expended by companies in creating draconian DRM measures or fighting piracy sights. Heck, even some of the more asinine intellectual property, copyright, and patent lawsuits that drag on for years.
I wish these companies would divert some of those resources towards an actually worthwhile cause that, shocker here, actually improves the freaking quality of the game for your paying customers instead of harming them.
Why don't we see their legal teams doing anything to stop this? Why isn't there more technology in games to stop these cheaters? Cheaters are far worse of a threat to online games than piracy ever will be.
Shadow's Hand Guild
Open recruitment for
The Secret World - Dragons
Planetside 2 - Terran Republic
Tera - Dragonfall Server
http://www.shadowshand.com
People are overlooking also, the fact that depending on how the game mechanics work, it's possible to have pay items which effect game play, but in such a way that they only make things more conveniant and not more powerful in combat, like more ship slots in Pirates of the Burning Sea, or a subscription where while you're under it, you level up faster, or certain things which don't effect combat are less expensive.