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worth coming back as a miner/orca flyer

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Comments

  • LowcaianLowcaian Member Posts: 265

    One of the problems is that EVE is old. The big alliances have locked down areas and have total control over technetium and are esentially holding the rest of EVE hostage. This makes them have unlimited acess to T2 weaponry and ships making them next to imposssible to dislodge unless you are one of the other big and old alliances.

    A new corp has no choice but being their renters and pay for protection.

    When the world was young it was different but now it's a bit like RL, the deck is stacked in favour of those who already have. This isn't unique to EVE but given the relatively large freedoom EVE allows it has a greater impact than in most other games.

    image
  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko Member EpicPosts: 6,916
    Originally posted by Lowcaian

    One of the problems is that EVE is old. The big alliances have locked down areas and have total control over technetium and are esentially holding the rest of EVE hostage. This makes them have unlimited acess to T2 weaponry and ships making them next to imposssible to dislodge unless you are one of the other big and old alliances.

    A new corp has no choice but being their renters and pay for protection.

    When the world was young it was different but now it's a bit like RL, the deck is stacked in favour of those who already have. This isn't unique to EVE but given the relatively large freedoom EVE allows it has a greater impact than in most other games.

    Yes, that statement has been made many times in the history of EVE. Many "great empires" have come and gone. A few years ago, BoB ruled supreme and nobody could imagine that rule being broken. Now, they are just a footnote in EVE history.

     

  • StridarStridar Member UncommonPosts: 134
    Originally posted by TdogSkal
    Originally posted by Calfis
    Originally posted by BigCountry

    There is no end game in eve. I never said there was.

    It's 100% sandbox once you get in 0.0 because it's entirely controlled and fought/defended over by play groups (corps/alliances). Your not themeparking anymore at that point, your building your own content/story lines according to how to respond/react to other players in the same area. To argue that's not sandbox would be pretty stupid.

    Its probably ignorance rather than stupidity, if they haven't spent a large amount of time in the player driven part of the game then they probably do think there's no sandbox.

    To say EvE is a sandbox is pretty stupid.  Even in 0.0 you have restrictions on what you can put on what ship, what faction you have to do certian missions.  There are restrictions which means its not a true sandbox.

     

    So you are saying that for Eve to be the sandbox game everyone says it is that there needs to be only one ship and then each player can customize it however they want?  Right, no frigates, no destroyers, no battleships, no miners...etc just one ship with an open canvas. While that would be truly stupid, I get your point.   

    It's a sandbox because you don't have to mine or better yet you don't have to mine on their terms. It's not a single player game so you have to interact with others players in one way or another whether you choose or they choose how that way happens is up in the air. 

    I've played and I've mined and I've mined while this event was going on and never lost a ship. I chose where to build my castle to avoid interacting with players that wanted to blow me up as their way of interacting with me.  Now does that mean that I was safe? never, but I also wasn't AFK mining or watching porn while I mined which is what a lot of the people crying do.   It was never even hard to keep my self safe while mining.   

    Other have said that no game will truly ever by a complete sandbox type of game and that's true, but Eve is as close to it as possible.  Some one in this thread mentioned that why isn't it possible for others to gang up and tank Goons out, it is if there were enough people willing to do it or even a small group of people with the right plan. 

    I hate seeing others trying to steer new players away from Eve when it's such a great game. I can honestly say that my enjoyment as a player both solo and in a corp was never directly effected by the Goons. Now was it indirectly because the price of a ship might have been higher during and after these type of events? Maybe, but I was also mining during them also which allowed me to make more ISK while the prices were high. 

  • CalfisCalfis Member UncommonPosts: 381
    Originally posted by TdogSkal
    Originally posted by jpnz
    Originally posted by TdogSkal
     

    No if pvpers are trying to control how others play the game thats not what a sandbox is, a Sandbox is a game that allows any player to play how they want when they want. 

    Entropia Universe is a Sandbox.   EvE is not but has Sandbox Elements and a ton of them but it is not a sandbox.

     

    Yes you can mount a gatting gun on a F22 Raptor if you wanted too and in fact the do have them. M61A2 20-mm Cannon is the standard gun installed on the F22 raptor. The M61A2 is a Gatling-style rotary cannon.

    If there are restrictions put in place to limit what players can do, it cannot be a Sandbox game.

    So in Entropia Universe, I can't try to play the game where I try to force others to do something? That's how I want to play as.

    So by your logic, Entropia Universe isn't a sandbox since the game isn't allowing me to play the game as I want.

    You can play Entropia Universe anyway you want including trying to force others to do something, the thing your are not understanding or choosing to ignore is that the other players can ignore you and keep playing the way they want too.  

    In EvE you can stop others from playing the game the way they want too.

    Understand the difference?

    Also, no come back on the F22 thing?

    We do understand, in Entropia the individual supercedes the virtual world. To you for some reason, this is a sandbox, being  in an invincible individual bubble where no other existing being can interfere with you is a sandbox...

    In EVE we follow the reverse philosophy, the virtual world is the greater, you are merely an individual existing within said world, exposed the same dangers, opportunities, and challenges as any other individual. You are not special, neither is anyone else. You can affect others or be affected by others as much as they can to you with the various methods/tools available to all individuals.

    You see EVE tries to simulate a world, not an individual experience, that is the stark difference. You can have experiences in this world but everything is interconnected, there is no bubble within the greater bubble of the virtual world.

    Since the IRL examples are popular, I will make one. If the real world was like EVE, then you can walk down the street and get mugged because someone wanted to mug you. If the real world was like Entropia, you could walk down the street and choose not to participate in the mugging part of existence because it does not suit your sensibilities. This is of course bullshit in a real sandbox world you cannot choose to not participate in the world.

    image

  • HazelleHazelle Member Posts: 760
    Originally posted by Calfis
    Originally posted by TdogSkal
    Originally posted by jpnz
    Originally posted by TdogSkal
     

    No if pvpers are trying to control how others play the game thats not what a sandbox is, a Sandbox is a game that allows any player to play how they want when they want. 

    Entropia Universe is a Sandbox.   EvE is not but has Sandbox Elements and a ton of them but it is not a sandbox.

     

    Yes you can mount a gatting gun on a F22 Raptor if you wanted too and in fact the do have them. M61A2 20-mm Cannon is the standard gun installed on the F22 raptor. The M61A2 is a Gatling-style rotary cannon.

    If there are restrictions put in place to limit what players can do, it cannot be a Sandbox game.

    So in Entropia Universe, I can't try to play the game where I try to force others to do something? That's how I want to play as.

    So by your logic, Entropia Universe isn't a sandbox since the game isn't allowing me to play the game as I want.

    You can play Entropia Universe anyway you want including trying to force others to do something, the thing your are not understanding or choosing to ignore is that the other players can ignore you and keep playing the way they want too.  

    In EvE you can stop others from playing the game the way they want too.

    Understand the difference?

    Also, no come back on the F22 thing?

    We do understand, in Entropia the individual supercedes the virtual world. To you for some reason, this is a sandbox, being  in an invincible individual bubble where no other existing being can interfere with you is a sandbox...

    In EVE we follow the reverse philosophy, the virtual world is the greater, you are merely an individual existing within said world, exposed the same dangers, opportunities, and challenges as any other individual. You are not special, neither is anyone else. You can affect others or be affected by others as much as they can to you with the various methods/tools available to all individuals.

    You see EVE tries to simulate a world, not an individual experience, that is the stark difference. You can have experiences in this world but everything is interconnected, there is no bubble within the greater bubble of the virtual world.

    Since the IRL examples are popular, I will make one. If the real world was like EVE, then you can walk down the street and get mugged because someone wanted to mug you. If the real world was like Entropia, you could walk down the street and choose not to participate in the mugging part of existence because it does not suit your sensibilities. This is of course bullshit in a real sandbox world you cannot choose to not participate in the world.

    Lol!  In the real world you can choose to protect yourself from that mugging by the use of force - ya can't really do that in a hulk now can ya?  If that mugger gets caught he's separated from everyone without a chance of parole for a number of years - so you think CCP should ban players from high sec not with a faction grind but with real time?  If you PK you can't enter high sec for a month?  Hey now, there's a thought!  How do you think the PKers will take to that?

  • CalfisCalfis Member UncommonPosts: 381
    Originally posted by Hazelle
    Originally posted by Calfis
    Originally posted by TdogSkal
    Originally posted by jpnz
    Originally posted by TdogSkal
     

    No if pvpers are trying to control how others play the game thats not what a sandbox is, a Sandbox is a game that allows any player to play how they want when they want. 

    Entropia Universe is a Sandbox.   EvE is not but has Sandbox Elements and a ton of them but it is not a sandbox.

     

    Yes you can mount a gatting gun on a F22 Raptor if you wanted too and in fact the do have them. M61A2 20-mm Cannon is the standard gun installed on the F22 raptor. The M61A2 is a Gatling-style rotary cannon.

    If there are restrictions put in place to limit what players can do, it cannot be a Sandbox game.

    So in Entropia Universe, I can't try to play the game where I try to force others to do something? That's how I want to play as.

    So by your logic, Entropia Universe isn't a sandbox since the game isn't allowing me to play the game as I want.

    You can play Entropia Universe anyway you want including trying to force others to do something, the thing your are not understanding or choosing to ignore is that the other players can ignore you and keep playing the way they want too.  

    In EvE you can stop others from playing the game the way they want too.

    Understand the difference?

    Also, no come back on the F22 thing?

    We do understand, in Entropia the individual supercedes the virtual world. To you for some reason, this is a sandbox, being  in an invincible individual bubble where no other existing being can interfere with you is a sandbox...

    In EVE we follow the reverse philosophy, the virtual world is the greater, you are merely an individual existing within said world, exposed the same dangers, opportunities, and challenges as any other individual. You are not special, neither is anyone else. You can affect others or be affected by others as much as they can to you with the various methods/tools available to all individuals.

    You see EVE tries to simulate a world, not an individual experience, that is the stark difference. You can have experiences in this world but everything is interconnected, there is no bubble within the greater bubble of the virtual world.

    Since the IRL examples are popular, I will make one. If the real world was like EVE, then you can walk down the street and get mugged because someone wanted to mug you. If the real world was like Entropia, you could walk down the street and choose not to participate in the mugging part of existence because it does not suit your sensibilities. This is of course bullshit in a real sandbox world you cannot choose to not participate in the world.

    Lol!  In the real world you can choose to protect yourself from that mugging by the use of force - ya can't really do that in a hulk now can ya?  If that mugger gets caught he's separated from everyone without a chance of parole for a number of years - so you think CCP should ban players from high sec not with a faction grind but with real time?  If you PK you can't enter high sec for a month?  Hey now, there's a thought!  How do you think the PKers will take to that?

    CCP sought to create a "cold, harsh universe" not second life. Think about those movies from the 80s and 90s about dystopian societies, EVE is supposed to be like the flip side of our nice, ordered and civilized society. You get mugged in the crime ridden world of Robocop just like you would get mugged in the real world. In both you could try to fight back, even if you would lose.

    image

  • HazelleHazelle Member Posts: 760
    Originally posted by Calfis
    Originally posted by Hazelle
    Originally posted by Calfis
    Originally posted by TdogSkal
    Originally posted by jpnz
    Originally posted by TdogSkal
     

    No if pvpers are trying to control how others play the game thats not what a sandbox is, a Sandbox is a game that allows any player to play how they want when they want. 

    Entropia Universe is a Sandbox.   EvE is not but has Sandbox Elements and a ton of them but it is not a sandbox.

     

    Yes you can mount a gatting gun on a F22 Raptor if you wanted too and in fact the do have them. M61A2 20-mm Cannon is the standard gun installed on the F22 raptor. The M61A2 is a Gatling-style rotary cannon.

    If there are restrictions put in place to limit what players can do, it cannot be a Sandbox game.

    So in Entropia Universe, I can't try to play the game where I try to force others to do something? That's how I want to play as.

    So by your logic, Entropia Universe isn't a sandbox since the game isn't allowing me to play the game as I want.

    You can play Entropia Universe anyway you want including trying to force others to do something, the thing your are not understanding or choosing to ignore is that the other players can ignore you and keep playing the way they want too.  

    In EvE you can stop others from playing the game the way they want too.

    Understand the difference?

    Also, no come back on the F22 thing?

    We do understand, in Entropia the individual supercedes the virtual world. To you for some reason, this is a sandbox, being  in an invincible individual bubble where no other existing being can interfere with you is a sandbox...

    In EVE we follow the reverse philosophy, the virtual world is the greater, you are merely an individual existing within said world, exposed the same dangers, opportunities, and challenges as any other individual. You are not special, neither is anyone else. You can affect others or be affected by others as much as they can to you with the various methods/tools available to all individuals.

    You see EVE tries to simulate a world, not an individual experience, that is the stark difference. You can have experiences in this world but everything is interconnected, there is no bubble within the greater bubble of the virtual world.

    Since the IRL examples are popular, I will make one. If the real world was like EVE, then you can walk down the street and get mugged because someone wanted to mug you. If the real world was like Entropia, you could walk down the street and choose not to participate in the mugging part of existence because it does not suit your sensibilities. This is of course bullshit in a real sandbox world you cannot choose to not participate in the world.

    Lol!  In the real world you can choose to protect yourself from that mugging by the use of force - ya can't really do that in a hulk now can ya?  If that mugger gets caught he's separated from everyone without a chance of parole for a number of years - so you think CCP should ban players from high sec not with a faction grind but with real time?  If you PK you can't enter high sec for a month?  Hey now, there's a thought!  How do you think the PKers will take to that?

    CCP sought to create a "cold, harsh universe" not second life. Think about those movies from the 80s and 90s about dystopian societies, EVE is supposed to be like the flip side of our nice, ordered and civilized society. You get mugged in the crime ridden world of Robocop just like you would get mugged in the real world. In both you could try to fight back, even if you would lose.

    CCP sought to create a balance between risk Vs. reward for all concerned PKer and PvE player alike and, from what I've heard and read, the risk is far greater for the PvE player than the Pker (even more so than when I played).  You can jabber on all you want about sandboxes and such but the fact still remains that the PKer has the significant advantage of high reward and low risk.

    In robo cop and in real life all you need is a gun and a direction to shoot it in - in eve you need the proper skills to arm yourself with the gun, the proper skills to shoot the gun, enough power to pull the trigger, and the proper coat that will fit the gun ; none of which you have, because you spent the last 6 months getting skills to be able to go grocery shopping.

    Dystopian society?  Where's the cold harsh universe for the mugger?  There isn't one - he's on easy street.

  • PyrostasisPyrostasis Member UncommonPosts: 2,293
    Originally posted by Lowcaian

    They are pathetic. Kill a miner in losec, ok because it's a dangerous place, kill a miner in hisec if your corp/alliance is at war with his, ok because then you are a strategic target as a miner.

    Suicide ganking for lulz or for the purpose of driving other players out of the game is pathetic.

    On the forums a guy suggested that a suicide ganking would result in a gcc for weeks. You know what happened? Cry whine, I don't want to be killed anywhere anytime, that was the answer from the Goon. Oh so risk and sandbox is only good as long as they are not at the recieving end I take it.

    The goal isnt to drive miners out, its to drive the prices of minerals up. During hulkageddon each year its the BEST time to be a miner. Why? Cause the ore prices go sky high.

    Its extremely easy to protect yourself from hulkageddon but most players prefer to whine about it instead of simply learn how to counter the issue.

    Last year my mining corps profits tripled during hulkageddon. I bet smart miners are making an absolute killing right now.

  • PyrostasisPyrostasis Member UncommonPosts: 2,293
    Originally posted by Bladestrom
    Originally posted by Khaeros

    Oh, come on, all of you!

     

    You're on this site erryday going 'I WANT SANDBAWKS GAMES THAT ARE HARD AND PLAYER INTERACTION MATTERS!!!!' and now you're unsubbing because the Goons made you mad?

     

    Figures.  Whenever it's convenient for you to have a difficult game, it's perfectly fine.  You like the pride that comes from claiming that you're part of a 'difficult' game.  However, when the difficulty starts to impede how you play, it's a whole new tune from this site.

     

    Goons definately deserve a commendation for this.  Uprooting all the weak trash, so only the strong survive.  Now that's a proper sandbox to me.

    This would be fine if the sandbox had ways that allowed the victim to fight back or defend or be defended, but suicide kills are side-stepping rules meant to preserve the nature of the sandbox.

     

     

    ACtually you can quite easily avoid suicide ganking. ASsuming you are actually interested in doing so pm me and I'll let you know how to do it. It requires you to be more active and pay attention in empire which most people dont do... but you can still mine right now, easily, in perfect safety... and unlike most times... make a killing on the inflated prices

  • PyrostasisPyrostasis Member UncommonPosts: 2,293
    Originally posted by TdogSkal
    Originally posted by jpnz
    Originally posted by TdogSkal
     

    To say EvE is a sandbox is pretty stupid.  Even in 0.0 you have restrictions on what you can put on what ship, what faction you have to do certian missions.  There are restrictions which means its not a true sandbox.

    I know you guys want it to be a Sandbox so bad but its not, sorry but it is not a Sandbox.  It does have the Sandbox Elements and a lot of them but its not a sandbox.

    If it was a Sandbox, I could mount guns on a mining ship.

    A Sandbox game allows a player to play the game the way they want when they want.  That is not the Case in EVE.  Currently PvPers are defining the game play for all other play styles.

    I live in 0.0, it is way safer then low sec and high sec.  Low being the most dangerous and High sec being second.

    I am a carebear that never leaves 0.0.  I rarely PvP unless called too and spend my time scanning down sites and anom's.

    You want to mount guns on a mining ship but since you can not, EVE is not a sandbox. Okay~~~~

    Hmm... Can I mount a gattling gun on a F22-Raptor? No?!

    Does that mean REAL-LIFE isn't a sandbox? o_O

     

    PvPers are trying to make it so that you play the game as they want it.

    That's what a sandbox is. Don't like it? Tough. Or fight back.

    No if pvpers are trying to control how others play the game thats not what a sandbox is, a Sandbox is a game that allows any player to play how they want when they want. 

    Entropia Universe is a Sandbox.   EvE is not but has Sandbox Elements and a ton of them but it is not a sandbox.

     

    Yes you can mount a gatting gun on a F22 Raptor if you wanted too and in fact the do have them. M61A2 20-mm Cannon is the standard gun installed on the F22 raptor. The M61A2 is a Gatling-style rotary cannon.

    If there are restrictions put in place to limit what players can do, it cannot be a Sandbox game.

    Then sandbox games dont exist.

    You are confusing sandbox game play with game balance and fairness.

    I cant have a billion dollars as soon as I join entropia therefore its not a sandbox...See how insane that sounds? Well that wouldnt be fair to those that worked for the cash, for the economy, for the business men.

    But I want to play a billionaire and if I cant its not a sandbox.

    Ships have restrictions based on balance and game play fun. You are describing a game where there is one ship, that can do everything and anything. That is not balance, that is not fun, than is insanity.

    You need ships that fit roles, the sandbox part comes in with the freedom to FLY any of them. Want to be fast? They have fast ships, want to hit hard, got them too, want a ship that is hard as hell to kill? Gotcha.

    But having a ship that does all of those things would be game breaking and has 0 to do with sandbox.

  • PyrostasisPyrostasis Member UncommonPosts: 2,293
    Originally posted by Hazelle
    Originally posted by Calfis
    Originally posted by TdogSkal
    Originally posted by jpnz
    Originally posted by TdogSkal
     

    No if pvpers are trying to control how others play the game thats not what a sandbox is, a Sandbox is a game that allows any player to play how they want when they want. 

    Entropia Universe is a Sandbox.   EvE is not but has Sandbox Elements and a ton of them but it is not a sandbox.

     

    Yes you can mount a gatting gun on a F22 Raptor if you wanted too and in fact the do have them. M61A2 20-mm Cannon is the standard gun installed on the F22 raptor. The M61A2 is a Gatling-style rotary cannon.

    If there are restrictions put in place to limit what players can do, it cannot be a Sandbox game.

    So in Entropia Universe, I can't try to play the game where I try to force others to do something? That's how I want to play as.

    So by your logic, Entropia Universe isn't a sandbox since the game isn't allowing me to play the game as I want.

    You can play Entropia Universe anyway you want including trying to force others to do something, the thing your are not understanding or choosing to ignore is that the other players can ignore you and keep playing the way they want too.  

    In EvE you can stop others from playing the game the way they want too.

    Understand the difference?

    Also, no come back on the F22 thing?

    We do understand, in Entropia the individual supercedes the virtual world. To you for some reason, this is a sandbox, being  in an invincible individual bubble where no other existing being can interfere with you is a sandbox...

    In EVE we follow the reverse philosophy, the virtual world is the greater, you are merely an individual existing within said world, exposed the same dangers, opportunities, and challenges as any other individual. You are not special, neither is anyone else. You can affect others or be affected by others as much as they can to you with the various methods/tools available to all individuals.

    You see EVE tries to simulate a world, not an individual experience, that is the stark difference. You can have experiences in this world but everything is interconnected, there is no bubble within the greater bubble of the virtual world.

    Since the IRL examples are popular, I will make one. If the real world was like EVE, then you can walk down the street and get mugged because someone wanted to mug you. If the real world was like Entropia, you could walk down the street and choose not to participate in the mugging part of existence because it does not suit your sensibilities. This is of course bullshit in a real sandbox world you cannot choose to not participate in the world.

    Lol!  In the real world you can choose to protect yourself from that mugging by the use of force - ya can't really do that in a hulk now can ya?  If that mugger gets caught he's separated from everyone without a chance of parole for a number of years - so you think CCP should ban players from high sec not with a faction grind but with real time?  If you PK you can't enter high sec for a month?  Hey now, there's a thought!  How do you think the PKers will take to that?

    Yes but your argument is flawed.

    If Im jumped by trained army comandos in real life Im going to fight back... for the 3 seconds before they kill me. Im the equivalent of a Hulk. Commandos trained to be where they are and have those skills. They however cant build a house from scratch like I can.

    See the flaw in your logic?

     

  • HazelleHazelle Member Posts: 760
    Originally posted by Pyrostasis
    Originally posted by Hazelle
    Originally posted by Calfis
    Originally posted by TdogSkal
    Originally posted by jpnz
    Originally posted by TdogSkal
     

    No if pvpers are trying to control how others play the game thats not what a sandbox is, a Sandbox is a game that allows any player to play how they want when they want. 

    Entropia Universe is a Sandbox.   EvE is not but has Sandbox Elements and a ton of them but it is not a sandbox.

     

    Yes you can mount a gatting gun on a F22 Raptor if you wanted too and in fact the do have them. M61A2 20-mm Cannon is the standard gun installed on the F22 raptor. The M61A2 is a Gatling-style rotary cannon.

    If there are restrictions put in place to limit what players can do, it cannot be a Sandbox game.

    So in Entropia Universe, I can't try to play the game where I try to force others to do something? That's how I want to play as.

    So by your logic, Entropia Universe isn't a sandbox since the game isn't allowing me to play the game as I want.

    You can play Entropia Universe anyway you want including trying to force others to do something, the thing your are not understanding or choosing to ignore is that the other players can ignore you and keep playing the way they want too.  

    In EvE you can stop others from playing the game the way they want too.

    Understand the difference?

    Also, no come back on the F22 thing?

    We do understand, in Entropia the individual supercedes the virtual world. To you for some reason, this is a sandbox, being  in an invincible individual bubble where no other existing being can interfere with you is a sandbox...

    In EVE we follow the reverse philosophy, the virtual world is the greater, you are merely an individual existing within said world, exposed the same dangers, opportunities, and challenges as any other individual. You are not special, neither is anyone else. You can affect others or be affected by others as much as they can to you with the various methods/tools available to all individuals.

    You see EVE tries to simulate a world, not an individual experience, that is the stark difference. You can have experiences in this world but everything is interconnected, there is no bubble within the greater bubble of the virtual world.

    Since the IRL examples are popular, I will make one. If the real world was like EVE, then you can walk down the street and get mugged because someone wanted to mug you. If the real world was like Entropia, you could walk down the street and choose not to participate in the mugging part of existence because it does not suit your sensibilities. This is of course bullshit in a real sandbox world you cannot choose to not participate in the world.

    Lol!  In the real world you can choose to protect yourself from that mugging by the use of force - ya can't really do that in a hulk now can ya?  If that mugger gets caught he's separated from everyone without a chance of parole for a number of years - so you think CCP should ban players from high sec not with a faction grind but with real time?  If you PK you can't enter high sec for a month?  Hey now, there's a thought!  How do you think the PKers will take to that?

    Yes but your argument is flawed.

    If Im jumped by trained army comandos in real life Im going to fight back... for the 3 seconds before they kill me. Im the equivalent of a Hulk. Commandos trained to be where they are and have those skills. They however cant build a house from scratch like I can.

    See the flaw in your logic?

    All I see is you suggesting that a commando can't know how to build a house and kill a person in 3 seconds and for some reason you can't learn how to kill a person on par with a commando.

    If the world revolved around killing and building houses would you carry just a hammer to work or would you carry a gun aswell?  Would your only protection be on for your feet, head, eyes, and hands, or would you wear body armor too?

    Would you drive this:

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e1/Wheel-loader02.jpg 

    or this:

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6c/Armoured_front_loader.jpg 

    Infact, there's an entire branch of the Army dedicated to knowing how to kill people and build shit and in an area where killing an building are nessessary skills they have tools on them to do both.

  • HazelleHazelle Member Posts: 760
    Originally posted by Pyrostasis
    Originally posted by Lowcaian

    They are pathetic. Kill a miner in losec, ok because it's a dangerous place, kill a miner in hisec if your corp/alliance is at war with his, ok because then you are a strategic target as a miner.

    Suicide ganking for lulz or for the purpose of driving other players out of the game is pathetic.

    On the forums a guy suggested that a suicide ganking would result in a gcc for weeks. You know what happened? Cry whine, I don't want to be killed anywhere anytime, that was the answer from the Goon. Oh so risk and sandbox is only good as long as they are not at the recieving end I take it.

    The goal isnt to drive miners out, its to drive the prices of minerals up. During hulkageddon each year its the BEST time to be a miner. Why? Cause the ore prices go sky high.

    Its extremely easy to protect yourself from hulkageddon but most players prefer to whine about it instead of simply learn how to counter the issue.

    Last year my mining corps profits tripled during hulkageddon. I bet smart miners are making an absolute killing right now.

    That's a big bag of horseshit.  Most minerals were collected from drones prior to the changes and they weren't affected by hulkageddon one bloody bit so the cost of minerals never used to go anywhere let alone "sky high".  I know because I hoarded minerals for months before two kulks back and watched the market at the last hulk before this one; ore sold at slightly higher than the standard prices and by slightly i mean slightly so I don't even know what you're going on about.

  • EluwienEluwien Member UncommonPosts: 196
    Originally posted by Lowcaian

    One of the problems is that EVE is old. The big alliances have locked down areas and have total control over technetium and are esentially holding the rest of EVE hostage. This makes them have unlimited acess to T2 weaponry and ships making them next to imposssible to dislodge unless you are one of the other big and old alliances.

    A new corp has no choice but being their renters and pay for protection.

    When the world was young it was different but now it's a bit like RL, the deck is stacked in favour of those who already have. This isn't unique to EVE but given the relatively large freedoom EVE allows it has a greater impact than in most other games.

     

    Endless turmoil of powerblocks, new entranst and cascading empires.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhxV_VjtqkI

    Silly, silly man thinking that the choise to conquer is not ever available.

     

    image
    DAoC - 00-06 - And every now and then
    WoW - Online since launch - and now back again.
    EVE - Online since 07 - and still on, and on, and on..
    WHO - Online 08-10
    LOTR-O - Online 06-08
    Also played : Asherons Call, EverQuest, EQ2, Dungeons & Dragons, Cabal, Dark & Light, GW, 
    GW2, LA2, Ryzom, Shaiya, SWG, Allods, Forsaken World, ArcheAge, Secret World, Darkfall, Rift, ESO, Tera.

  • MalcanisMalcanis Member UncommonPosts: 3,297
    Originally posted by Hazelle
    Originally posted by Pyrostasis
    Originally posted by Lowcaian

    They are pathetic. Kill a miner in losec, ok because it's a dangerous place, kill a miner in hisec if your corp/alliance is at war with his, ok because then you are a strategic target as a miner.

    Suicide ganking for lulz or for the purpose of driving other players out of the game is pathetic.

    On the forums a guy suggested that a suicide ganking would result in a gcc for weeks. You know what happened? Cry whine, I don't want to be killed anywhere anytime, that was the answer from the Goon. Oh so risk and sandbox is only good as long as they are not at the recieving end I take it.

    The goal isnt to drive miners out, its to drive the prices of minerals up. During hulkageddon each year its the BEST time to be a miner. Why? Cause the ore prices go sky high.

    Its extremely easy to protect yourself from hulkageddon but most players prefer to whine about it instead of simply learn how to counter the issue.

    Last year my mining corps profits tripled during hulkageddon. I bet smart miners are making an absolute killing right now.

    That's a big bag of horseshit.  Most minerals were collected from drones prior to the changes and they weren't affected by hulkageddon one bloody bit so the cost of minerals never used to go anywhere let alone "sky high".  I know because I hoarded minerals for months before two kulks back and watched the market at the last hulk before this one; ore sold at slightly higher than the standard prices and by slightly i mean slightly so I don't even know what you're going on about.

     

    Previous Hulkageddons were more or less financed by market speculation in Hulks, T2 strip miners, etc. This Hulkageddon is different in that it's the first time Goonswarm have been officially involved, and they've made a habit of dicking with empire for their own profit (see the Gallente ice interdiction). They've profited hugely from this year's Hulkageddon.

    Give me liberty or give me lasers

  • CalfisCalfis Member UncommonPosts: 381
    Originally posted by Hazelle
    Originally posted by Calfis
    Originally posted by Hazelle
    Originally posted by Calfis
    Originally posted by TdogSkal
    Originally posted by jpnz
    Originally posted by TdogSkal
     

    No if pvpers are trying to control how others play the game thats not what a sandbox is, a Sandbox is a game that allows any player to play how they want when they want. 

    Entropia Universe is a Sandbox.   EvE is not but has Sandbox Elements and a ton of them but it is not a sandbox.

     

    Yes you can mount a gatting gun on a F22 Raptor if you wanted too and in fact the do have them. M61A2 20-mm Cannon is the standard gun installed on the F22 raptor. The M61A2 is a Gatling-style rotary cannon.

    If there are restrictions put in place to limit what players can do, it cannot be a Sandbox game.

    So in Entropia Universe, I can't try to play the game where I try to force others to do something? That's how I want to play as.

    So by your logic, Entropia Universe isn't a sandbox since the game isn't allowing me to play the game as I want.

    You can play Entropia Universe anyway you want including trying to force others to do something, the thing your are not understanding or choosing to ignore is that the other players can ignore you and keep playing the way they want too.  

    In EvE you can stop others from playing the game the way they want too.

    Understand the difference?

    Also, no come back on the F22 thing?

    We do understand, in Entropia the individual supercedes the virtual world. To you for some reason, this is a sandbox, being  in an invincible individual bubble where no other existing being can interfere with you is a sandbox...

    In EVE we follow the reverse philosophy, the virtual world is the greater, you are merely an individual existing within said world, exposed the same dangers, opportunities, and challenges as any other individual. You are not special, neither is anyone else. You can affect others or be affected by others as much as they can to you with the various methods/tools available to all individuals.

    You see EVE tries to simulate a world, not an individual experience, that is the stark difference. You can have experiences in this world but everything is interconnected, there is no bubble within the greater bubble of the virtual world.

    Since the IRL examples are popular, I will make one. If the real world was like EVE, then you can walk down the street and get mugged because someone wanted to mug you. If the real world was like Entropia, you could walk down the street and choose not to participate in the mugging part of existence because it does not suit your sensibilities. This is of course bullshit in a real sandbox world you cannot choose to not participate in the world.

    Lol!  In the real world you can choose to protect yourself from that mugging by the use of force - ya can't really do that in a hulk now can ya?  If that mugger gets caught he's separated from everyone without a chance of parole for a number of years - so you think CCP should ban players from high sec not with a faction grind but with real time?  If you PK you can't enter high sec for a month?  Hey now, there's a thought!  How do you think the PKers will take to that?

    CCP sought to create a "cold, harsh universe" not second life. Think about those movies from the 80s and 90s about dystopian societies, EVE is supposed to be like the flip side of our nice, ordered and civilized society. You get mugged in the crime ridden world of Robocop just like you would get mugged in the real world. In both you could try to fight back, even if you would lose.

    CCP sought to create a balance between risk Vs. reward for all concerned PKer and PvE player alike and, from what I've heard and read, the risk is far greater for the PvE player than the Pker (even more so than when I played).  You can jabber on all you want about sandboxes and such but the fact still remains that the PKer has the significant advantage of high reward and low risk.

    In robo cop and in real life all you need is a gun and a direction to shoot it in - in eve you need the proper skills to arm yourself with the gun, the proper skills to shoot the gun, enough power to pull the trigger, and the proper coat that will fit the gun ; none of which you have, because you spent the last 6 months getting skills to be able to go grocery shopping.

    Dystopian society?  Where's the cold harsh universe for the mugger?  There isn't one - he's on easy street.

    Have you considered the possibility that CCP meant it to be this way all along and only made a few token concessions to more casual players that have happened along their game over the past few years? Why else would it be slanted more in the PKers favor if a dystopian society was not what they wanted? Of course if this is the cause they could not say it in public ;)

    image

  • HazelleHazelle Member Posts: 760
    Originally posted by Calfis
    Originally posted by Hazelle
    Originally posted by Calfis
    Originally posted by Hazelle
    Originally posted by Calfis
    Originally posted by TdogSkal
    Originally posted by jpnz
    Originally posted by TdogSkal
     

    No if pvpers are trying to control how others play the game thats not what a sandbox is, a Sandbox is a game that allows any player to play how they want when they want. 

    Entropia Universe is a Sandbox.   EvE is not but has Sandbox Elements and a ton of them but it is not a sandbox.

     

    Yes you can mount a gatting gun on a F22 Raptor if you wanted too and in fact the do have them. M61A2 20-mm Cannon is the standard gun installed on the F22 raptor. The M61A2 is a Gatling-style rotary cannon.

    If there are restrictions put in place to limit what players can do, it cannot be a Sandbox game.

    So in Entropia Universe, I can't try to play the game where I try to force others to do something? That's how I want to play as.

    So by your logic, Entropia Universe isn't a sandbox since the game isn't allowing me to play the game as I want.

    You can play Entropia Universe anyway you want including trying to force others to do something, the thing your are not understanding or choosing to ignore is that the other players can ignore you and keep playing the way they want too.  

    In EvE you can stop others from playing the game the way they want too.

    Understand the difference?

    Also, no come back on the F22 thing?

    We do understand, in Entropia the individual supercedes the virtual world. To you for some reason, this is a sandbox, being  in an invincible individual bubble where no other existing being can interfere with you is a sandbox...

    In EVE we follow the reverse philosophy, the virtual world is the greater, you are merely an individual existing within said world, exposed the same dangers, opportunities, and challenges as any other individual. You are not special, neither is anyone else. You can affect others or be affected by others as much as they can to you with the various methods/tools available to all individuals.

    You see EVE tries to simulate a world, not an individual experience, that is the stark difference. You can have experiences in this world but everything is interconnected, there is no bubble within the greater bubble of the virtual world.

    Since the IRL examples are popular, I will make one. If the real world was like EVE, then you can walk down the street and get mugged because someone wanted to mug you. If the real world was like Entropia, you could walk down the street and choose not to participate in the mugging part of existence because it does not suit your sensibilities. This is of course bullshit in a real sandbox world you cannot choose to not participate in the world.

    Lol!  In the real world you can choose to protect yourself from that mugging by the use of force - ya can't really do that in a hulk now can ya?  If that mugger gets caught he's separated from everyone without a chance of parole for a number of years - so you think CCP should ban players from high sec not with a faction grind but with real time?  If you PK you can't enter high sec for a month?  Hey now, there's a thought!  How do you think the PKers will take to that?

    CCP sought to create a "cold, harsh universe" not second life. Think about those movies from the 80s and 90s about dystopian societies, EVE is supposed to be like the flip side of our nice, ordered and civilized society. You get mugged in the crime ridden world of Robocop just like you would get mugged in the real world. In both you could try to fight back, even if you would lose.

    CCP sought to create a balance between risk Vs. reward for all concerned PKer and PvE player alike and, from what I've heard and read, the risk is far greater for the PvE player than the Pker (even more so than when I played).  You can jabber on all you want about sandboxes and such but the fact still remains that the PKer has the significant advantage of high reward and low risk.

    In robo cop and in real life all you need is a gun and a direction to shoot it in - in eve you need the proper skills to arm yourself with the gun, the proper skills to shoot the gun, enough power to pull the trigger, and the proper coat that will fit the gun ; none of which you have, because you spent the last 6 months getting skills to be able to go grocery shopping.

    Dystopian society?  Where's the cold harsh universe for the mugger?  There isn't one - he's on easy street.

    Have you considered the possibility that CCP meant it to be this way all along and only made a few token concessions to more casual players that have happened along their game over the past few years? Why else would it be slanted more in the PKers favor if a dystopian society was not what they wanted? Of course if this is the cause they could not say it in public ;)

    I doubt CCP took rising hulk prices year over year into account when they initially set up this wolf vs hare dynamic.

    A few years ago I bought my hulk for 68 million ISK what are they worrth in the market now?

    Since then CCPs changed modules and ships enough that even smaller ships than when I bought mine can take hulks down.

    Planned?  Doubtful.

    From what I've read most people aren't complianing about the wolve vs. hare dynamic they are complaining about their hare being a very expensive lame duck.

  • CalfisCalfis Member UncommonPosts: 381
    Originally posted by Hazelle
    Originally posted by Calfis
    Originally posted by Hazelle
    Originally posted by Calfis
    Originally posted by Hazelle
    Originally posted by Calfis
    Originally posted by TdogSkal
    Originally posted by jpnz
    Originally posted by TdogSkal
     

    No if pvpers are trying to control how others play the game thats not what a sandbox is, a Sandbox is a game that allows any player to play how they want when they want. 

    Entropia Universe is a Sandbox.   EvE is not but has Sandbox Elements and a ton of them but it is not a sandbox.

     

    Yes you can mount a gatting gun on a F22 Raptor if you wanted too and in fact the do have them. M61A2 20-mm Cannon is the standard gun installed on the F22 raptor. The M61A2 is a Gatling-style rotary cannon.

    If there are restrictions put in place to limit what players can do, it cannot be a Sandbox game.

    So in Entropia Universe, I can't try to play the game where I try to force others to do something? That's how I want to play as.

    So by your logic, Entropia Universe isn't a sandbox since the game isn't allowing me to play the game as I want.

    You can play Entropia Universe anyway you want including trying to force others to do something, the thing your are not understanding or choosing to ignore is that the other players can ignore you and keep playing the way they want too.  

    In EvE you can stop others from playing the game the way they want too.

    Understand the difference?

    Also, no come back on the F22 thing?

    We do understand, in Entropia the individual supercedes the virtual world. To you for some reason, this is a sandbox, being  in an invincible individual bubble where no other existing being can interfere with you is a sandbox...

    In EVE we follow the reverse philosophy, the virtual world is the greater, you are merely an individual existing within said world, exposed the same dangers, opportunities, and challenges as any other individual. You are not special, neither is anyone else. You can affect others or be affected by others as much as they can to you with the various methods/tools available to all individuals.

    You see EVE tries to simulate a world, not an individual experience, that is the stark difference. You can have experiences in this world but everything is interconnected, there is no bubble within the greater bubble of the virtual world.

    Since the IRL examples are popular, I will make one. If the real world was like EVE, then you can walk down the street and get mugged because someone wanted to mug you. If the real world was like Entropia, you could walk down the street and choose not to participate in the mugging part of existence because it does not suit your sensibilities. This is of course bullshit in a real sandbox world you cannot choose to not participate in the world.

    Lol!  In the real world you can choose to protect yourself from that mugging by the use of force - ya can't really do that in a hulk now can ya?  If that mugger gets caught he's separated from everyone without a chance of parole for a number of years - so you think CCP should ban players from high sec not with a faction grind but with real time?  If you PK you can't enter high sec for a month?  Hey now, there's a thought!  How do you think the PKers will take to that?

    CCP sought to create a "cold, harsh universe" not second life. Think about those movies from the 80s and 90s about dystopian societies, EVE is supposed to be like the flip side of our nice, ordered and civilized society. You get mugged in the crime ridden world of Robocop just like you would get mugged in the real world. In both you could try to fight back, even if you would lose.

    CCP sought to create a balance between risk Vs. reward for all concerned PKer and PvE player alike and, from what I've heard and read, the risk is far greater for the PvE player than the Pker (even more so than when I played).  You can jabber on all you want about sandboxes and such but the fact still remains that the PKer has the significant advantage of high reward and low risk.

    In robo cop and in real life all you need is a gun and a direction to shoot it in - in eve you need the proper skills to arm yourself with the gun, the proper skills to shoot the gun, enough power to pull the trigger, and the proper coat that will fit the gun ; none of which you have, because you spent the last 6 months getting skills to be able to go grocery shopping.

    Dystopian society?  Where's the cold harsh universe for the mugger?  There isn't one - he's on easy street.

    Have you considered the possibility that CCP meant it to be this way all along and only made a few token concessions to more casual players that have happened along their game over the past few years? Why else would it be slanted more in the PKers favor if a dystopian society was not what they wanted? Of course if this is the cause they could not say it in public ;)

    I doubt CCP took rising hulk prices year over year into account when they initially set up this wolf vs hare dynamic.

    A few years ago I bought my hulk for 68 million ISK what are they worrth in the market now?

    Since then CCPs changed modules and ships enough that even smaller ships than when I bought mine can take hulks down.

    Planned?  Doubtful.

    From what I've read most people aren't complianing about the wolve vs. hare dynamic they are complaining about their hare being a very expensive lame duck.

    I'm not sure the price of the hulk is within CCP's control, when I started 2 years ago hulks were around 130 million a pop. They seemed to spike to close to 200M during a hulkageddon event. Now they are at around 280M during this infinite hulkageddon. The price of all ships have actually gone up. I'm paying around 55M for a friggin drake, could be the drone mines nerf, could be miners not being able to mine as much, could be traders speculating the shit out of the market. Why should player driven market prices affect CCP's thinking on the wolf v hare dynamic?

    Besides it doesn't always end in a gank, I remember trying to solo a mackinaw (weaker tank than a hulk) in a tech 1 cruiser in a 0.5 and failing. Since then I haven't attempted a highsec gank again. The wolves don't always win anyway.

    image

  • HazelleHazelle Member Posts: 760
    Originally posted by Calfis
    Originally posted by Hazelle
    Originally posted by Calfis
    Originally posted by Hazelle
    Originally posted by Calfis
    Originally posted by Hazelle
    Originally posted by Calfis
    Originally posted by TdogSkal
    Originally posted by jpnz
    Originally posted by TdogSkal
     

    No if pvpers are trying to control how others play the game thats not what a sandbox is, a Sandbox is a game that allows any player to play how they want when they want. 

    Entropia Universe is a Sandbox.   EvE is not but has Sandbox Elements and a ton of them but it is not a sandbox.

     

    Yes you can mount a gatting gun on a F22 Raptor if you wanted too and in fact the do have them. M61A2 20-mm Cannon is the standard gun installed on the F22 raptor. The M61A2 is a Gatling-style rotary cannon.

    If there are restrictions put in place to limit what players can do, it cannot be a Sandbox game.

    So in Entropia Universe, I can't try to play the game where I try to force others to do something? That's how I want to play as.

    So by your logic, Entropia Universe isn't a sandbox since the game isn't allowing me to play the game as I want.

    You can play Entropia Universe anyway you want including trying to force others to do something, the thing your are not understanding or choosing to ignore is that the other players can ignore you and keep playing the way they want too.  

    In EvE you can stop others from playing the game the way they want too.

    Understand the difference?

    Also, no come back on the F22 thing?

    We do understand, in Entropia the individual supercedes the virtual world. To you for some reason, this is a sandbox, being  in an invincible individual bubble where no other existing being can interfere with you is a sandbox...

    In EVE we follow the reverse philosophy, the virtual world is the greater, you are merely an individual existing within said world, exposed the same dangers, opportunities, and challenges as any other individual. You are not special, neither is anyone else. You can affect others or be affected by others as much as they can to you with the various methods/tools available to all individuals.

    You see EVE tries to simulate a world, not an individual experience, that is the stark difference. You can have experiences in this world but everything is interconnected, there is no bubble within the greater bubble of the virtual world.

    Since the IRL examples are popular, I will make one. If the real world was like EVE, then you can walk down the street and get mugged because someone wanted to mug you. If the real world was like Entropia, you could walk down the street and choose not to participate in the mugging part of existence because it does not suit your sensibilities. This is of course bullshit in a real sandbox world you cannot choose to not participate in the world.

    Lol!  In the real world you can choose to protect yourself from that mugging by the use of force - ya can't really do that in a hulk now can ya?  If that mugger gets caught he's separated from everyone without a chance of parole for a number of years - so you think CCP should ban players from high sec not with a faction grind but with real time?  If you PK you can't enter high sec for a month?  Hey now, there's a thought!  How do you think the PKers will take to that?

    CCP sought to create a "cold, harsh universe" not second life. Think about those movies from the 80s and 90s about dystopian societies, EVE is supposed to be like the flip side of our nice, ordered and civilized society. You get mugged in the crime ridden world of Robocop just like you would get mugged in the real world. In both you could try to fight back, even if you would lose.

    CCP sought to create a balance between risk Vs. reward for all concerned PKer and PvE player alike and, from what I've heard and read, the risk is far greater for the PvE player than the Pker (even more so than when I played).  You can jabber on all you want about sandboxes and such but the fact still remains that the PKer has the significant advantage of high reward and low risk.

    In robo cop and in real life all you need is a gun and a direction to shoot it in - in eve you need the proper skills to arm yourself with the gun, the proper skills to shoot the gun, enough power to pull the trigger, and the proper coat that will fit the gun ; none of which you have, because you spent the last 6 months getting skills to be able to go grocery shopping.

    Dystopian society?  Where's the cold harsh universe for the mugger?  There isn't one - he's on easy street.

    Have you considered the possibility that CCP meant it to be this way all along and only made a few token concessions to more casual players that have happened along their game over the past few years? Why else would it be slanted more in the PKers favor if a dystopian society was not what they wanted? Of course if this is the cause they could not say it in public ;)

    I doubt CCP took rising hulk prices year over year into account when they initially set up this wolf vs hare dynamic.

    A few years ago I bought my hulk for 68 million ISK what are they worrth in the market now?

    Since then CCPs changed modules and ships enough that even smaller ships than when I bought mine can take hulks down.

    Planned?  Doubtful.

    From what I've read most people aren't complianing about the wolve vs. hare dynamic they are complaining about their hare being a very expensive lame duck.

    I'm not sure the price of the hulk is within CCP's control, when I started 2 years ago hulks were around 130 million a pop. They seemed to spike to close to 200M during a hulkageddon event. Now they are at around 280M during this infinite hulkageddon. The price of all ships have actually gone up. I'm paying around 55M for a friggin drake, could be the drone mines nerf, could be miners not being able to mine as much, could be traders speculating the shit out of the market. Why should player driven market prices affect CCP's thinking on the wolf v hare dynamic?

    Besides it doesn't always end in a gank, I remember trying to solo a mackinaw (weaker tank than a hulk) in a tech 1 cruiser in a 0.5 and failing. Since then I haven't attempted a highsec gank again. The wolves don't always win anyway.

    CPP taxed the shit out of high sec PI and recently altered drone loot and you suggest that they have no control over ship costs?  No fella - costs are completely within their control.

    Know what else they control?  The attributes of the ship - which although they've made several warships more powerful over the years they've not beefed up industry ships to match.

  • CalfisCalfis Member UncommonPosts: 381
    Originally posted by Hazelle
    Originally posted by Calfis
    Originally posted by Hazelle
    Originally posted by Calfis
    Originally posted by Hazelle
    Originally posted by Calfis
    Originally posted by Hazelle
    Originally posted by Calfis
    Originally posted by TdogSkal
    Originally posted by jpnz
    Originally posted by TdogSkal
     

    No if pvpers are trying to control how others play the game thats not what a sandbox is, a Sandbox is a game that allows any player to play how they want when they want. 

    Entropia Universe is a Sandbox.   EvE is not but has Sandbox Elements and a ton of them but it is not a sandbox.

     

    Yes you can mount a gatting gun on a F22 Raptor if you wanted too and in fact the do have them. M61A2 20-mm Cannon is the standard gun installed on the F22 raptor. The M61A2 is a Gatling-style rotary cannon.

    If there are restrictions put in place to limit what players can do, it cannot be a Sandbox game.

    So in Entropia Universe, I can't try to play the game where I try to force others to do something? That's how I want to play as.

    So by your logic, Entropia Universe isn't a sandbox since the game isn't allowing me to play the game as I want.

    You can play Entropia Universe anyway you want including trying to force others to do something, the thing your are not understanding or choosing to ignore is that the other players can ignore you and keep playing the way they want too.  

    In EvE you can stop others from playing the game the way they want too.

    Understand the difference?

    Also, no come back on the F22 thing?

    We do understand, in Entropia the individual supercedes the virtual world. To you for some reason, this is a sandbox, being  in an invincible individual bubble where no other existing being can interfere with you is a sandbox...

    In EVE we follow the reverse philosophy, the virtual world is the greater, you are merely an individual existing within said world, exposed the same dangers, opportunities, and challenges as any other individual. You are not special, neither is anyone else. You can affect others or be affected by others as much as they can to you with the various methods/tools available to all individuals.

    You see EVE tries to simulate a world, not an individual experience, that is the stark difference. You can have experiences in this world but everything is interconnected, there is no bubble within the greater bubble of the virtual world.

    Since the IRL examples are popular, I will make one. If the real world was like EVE, then you can walk down the street and get mugged because someone wanted to mug you. If the real world was like Entropia, you could walk down the street and choose not to participate in the mugging part of existence because it does not suit your sensibilities. This is of course bullshit in a real sandbox world you cannot choose to not participate in the world.

    Lol!  In the real world you can choose to protect yourself from that mugging by the use of force - ya can't really do that in a hulk now can ya?  If that mugger gets caught he's separated from everyone without a chance of parole for a number of years - so you think CCP should ban players from high sec not with a faction grind but with real time?  If you PK you can't enter high sec for a month?  Hey now, there's a thought!  How do you think the PKers will take to that?

    CCP sought to create a "cold, harsh universe" not second life. Think about those movies from the 80s and 90s about dystopian societies, EVE is supposed to be like the flip side of our nice, ordered and civilized society. You get mugged in the crime ridden world of Robocop just like you would get mugged in the real world. In both you could try to fight back, even if you would lose.

    CCP sought to create a balance between risk Vs. reward for all concerned PKer and PvE player alike and, from what I've heard and read, the risk is far greater for the PvE player than the Pker (even more so than when I played).  You can jabber on all you want about sandboxes and such but the fact still remains that the PKer has the significant advantage of high reward and low risk.

    In robo cop and in real life all you need is a gun and a direction to shoot it in - in eve you need the proper skills to arm yourself with the gun, the proper skills to shoot the gun, enough power to pull the trigger, and the proper coat that will fit the gun ; none of which you have, because you spent the last 6 months getting skills to be able to go grocery shopping.

    Dystopian society?  Where's the cold harsh universe for the mugger?  There isn't one - he's on easy street.

    Have you considered the possibility that CCP meant it to be this way all along and only made a few token concessions to more casual players that have happened along their game over the past few years? Why else would it be slanted more in the PKers favor if a dystopian society was not what they wanted? Of course if this is the cause they could not say it in public ;)

    I doubt CCP took rising hulk prices year over year into account when they initially set up this wolf vs hare dynamic.

    A few years ago I bought my hulk for 68 million ISK what are they worrth in the market now?

    Since then CCPs changed modules and ships enough that even smaller ships than when I bought mine can take hulks down.

    Planned?  Doubtful.

    From what I've read most people aren't complianing about the wolve vs. hare dynamic they are complaining about their hare being a very expensive lame duck.

    I'm not sure the price of the hulk is within CCP's control, when I started 2 years ago hulks were around 130 million a pop. They seemed to spike to close to 200M during a hulkageddon event. Now they are at around 280M during this infinite hulkageddon. The price of all ships have actually gone up. I'm paying around 55M for a friggin drake, could be the drone mines nerf, could be miners not being able to mine as much, could be traders speculating the shit out of the market. Why should player driven market prices affect CCP's thinking on the wolf v hare dynamic?

    Besides it doesn't always end in a gank, I remember trying to solo a mackinaw (weaker tank than a hulk) in a tech 1 cruiser in a 0.5 and failing. Since then I haven't attempted a highsec gank again. The wolves don't always win anyway.

    CPP taxed the shit out of high sec PI and recently altered drone loot and you suggest that they have no control over ship costs?  No fella - costs are completely within their control.

    Know what else they control?  The attributes of the ship - which although they've made several warships more powerful over the years they've not beefed up industry ships to match.

    I'm saying the player influences are still far greater than CCP's, they make changes but its the player that speculate even before those changes are implemented. PvP ships operate in a constantly changing combat environment of varying fleet doctrines so attributes need to be changed to balance against other combat ships. What about mining and industry has varied so much that they need to be beefed? Unless u mean they need to be invincible to suicide ganks? 

    image

  • HazelleHazelle Member Posts: 760
    Originally posted by Calfis
    Originally posted by Hazelle
    Originally posted by Calfis
    Originally posted by Hazelle
    Originally posted by Calfis
    Originally posted by Hazelle
    Originally posted by Calfis
    Originally posted by Hazelle
    Originally posted by Calfis
    Originally posted by TdogSkal
    Originally posted by jpnz
    Originally posted by TdogSkal
     

    No if pvpers are trying to control how others play the game thats not what a sandbox is, a Sandbox is a game that allows any player to play how they want when they want. 

    Entropia Universe is a Sandbox.   EvE is not but has Sandbox Elements and a ton of them but it is not a sandbox.

     

    Yes you can mount a gatting gun on a F22 Raptor if you wanted too and in fact the do have them. M61A2 20-mm Cannon is the standard gun installed on the F22 raptor. The M61A2 is a Gatling-style rotary cannon.

    If there are restrictions put in place to limit what players can do, it cannot be a Sandbox game.

    So in Entropia Universe, I can't try to play the game where I try to force others to do something? That's how I want to play as.

    So by your logic, Entropia Universe isn't a sandbox since the game isn't allowing me to play the game as I want.

    You can play Entropia Universe anyway you want including trying to force others to do something, the thing your are not understanding or choosing to ignore is that the other players can ignore you and keep playing the way they want too.  

    In EvE you can stop others from playing the game the way they want too.

    Understand the difference?

    Also, no come back on the F22 thing?

    We do understand, in Entropia the individual supercedes the virtual world. To you for some reason, this is a sandbox, being  in an invincible individual bubble where no other existing being can interfere with you is a sandbox...

    In EVE we follow the reverse philosophy, the virtual world is the greater, you are merely an individual existing within said world, exposed the same dangers, opportunities, and challenges as any other individual. You are not special, neither is anyone else. You can affect others or be affected by others as much as they can to you with the various methods/tools available to all individuals.

    You see EVE tries to simulate a world, not an individual experience, that is the stark difference. You can have experiences in this world but everything is interconnected, there is no bubble within the greater bubble of the virtual world.

    Since the IRL examples are popular, I will make one. If the real world was like EVE, then you can walk down the street and get mugged because someone wanted to mug you. If the real world was like Entropia, you could walk down the street and choose not to participate in the mugging part of existence because it does not suit your sensibilities. This is of course bullshit in a real sandbox world you cannot choose to not participate in the world.

    Lol!  In the real world you can choose to protect yourself from that mugging by the use of force - ya can't really do that in a hulk now can ya?  If that mugger gets caught he's separated from everyone without a chance of parole for a number of years - so you think CCP should ban players from high sec not with a faction grind but with real time?  If you PK you can't enter high sec for a month?  Hey now, there's a thought!  How do you think the PKers will take to that?

    CCP sought to create a "cold, harsh universe" not second life. Think about those movies from the 80s and 90s about dystopian societies, EVE is supposed to be like the flip side of our nice, ordered and civilized society. You get mugged in the crime ridden world of Robocop just like you would get mugged in the real world. In both you could try to fight back, even if you would lose.

    CCP sought to create a balance between risk Vs. reward for all concerned PKer and PvE player alike and, from what I've heard and read, the risk is far greater for the PvE player than the Pker (even more so than when I played).  You can jabber on all you want about sandboxes and such but the fact still remains that the PKer has the significant advantage of high reward and low risk.

    In robo cop and in real life all you need is a gun and a direction to shoot it in - in eve you need the proper skills to arm yourself with the gun, the proper skills to shoot the gun, enough power to pull the trigger, and the proper coat that will fit the gun ; none of which you have, because you spent the last 6 months getting skills to be able to go grocery shopping.

    Dystopian society?  Where's the cold harsh universe for the mugger?  There isn't one - he's on easy street.

    Have you considered the possibility that CCP meant it to be this way all along and only made a few token concessions to more casual players that have happened along their game over the past few years? Why else would it be slanted more in the PKers favor if a dystopian society was not what they wanted? Of course if this is the cause they could not say it in public ;)

    I doubt CCP took rising hulk prices year over year into account when they initially set up this wolf vs hare dynamic.

    A few years ago I bought my hulk for 68 million ISK what are they worrth in the market now?

    Since then CCPs changed modules and ships enough that even smaller ships than when I bought mine can take hulks down.

    Planned?  Doubtful.

    From what I've read most people aren't complianing about the wolve vs. hare dynamic they are complaining about their hare being a very expensive lame duck.

    I'm not sure the price of the hulk is within CCP's control, when I started 2 years ago hulks were around 130 million a pop. They seemed to spike to close to 200M during a hulkageddon event. Now they are at around 280M during this infinite hulkageddon. The price of all ships have actually gone up. I'm paying around 55M for a friggin drake, could be the drone mines nerf, could be miners not being able to mine as much, could be traders speculating the shit out of the market. Why should player driven market prices affect CCP's thinking on the wolf v hare dynamic?

    Besides it doesn't always end in a gank, I remember trying to solo a mackinaw (weaker tank than a hulk) in a tech 1 cruiser in a 0.5 and failing. Since then I haven't attempted a highsec gank again. The wolves don't always win anyway.

    CPP taxed the shit out of high sec PI and recently altered drone loot and you suggest that they have no control over ship costs?  No fella - costs are completely within their control.

    Know what else they control?  The attributes of the ship - which although they've made several warships more powerful over the years they've not beefed up industry ships to match.

    I'm saying the player influences are still far greater than CCP's, they make changes but its the player that speculate even before those changes are implemented. PvP ships operate in a constantly changing combat environment of varying fleet doctrines so attributes need to be changed to balance against other combat ships. What about mining and industry has varied so much that they need to be beefed? Unless u mean they need to be invincible to suicide ganks? 

    Not to the extent that you see a dramatic jump in prices as has been seen in the game after CCP set the new price levels with their tax.  That was CCPs direct doing and not player speculation.

    Not invincible just stand a fair chance of survival considering the price of the thing Vs. the price of the thing that can knock it down.

    There should be risk for both concerned and not all of the risk being on the industry pilot alone.

    As I said above, a cruel and harsh dystopian society for all concerned, not just for a few with cake and ice cream and paper party hats and goodie bags for the rest.  Industry pilots shouldn't feel like a pinata at children's birthday party - it's very rare that the pinata wins and if it does it's because one of the kids f'd up.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ea-lbdxp4A 

  • WycliffeWycliffe Member Posts: 354
    Originally posted by TdogSkal
    Originally posted by jpnz
    Originally posted by TdogSkal
     

    No if pvpers are trying to control how others play the game thats not what a sandbox is, a Sandbox is a game that allows any player to play how they want when they want. 

    Entropia Universe is a Sandbox.   EvE is not but has Sandbox Elements and a ton of them but it is not a sandbox.

     

    Yes you can mount a gatting gun on a F22 Raptor if you wanted too and in fact the do have them. M61A2 20-mm Cannon is the standard gun installed on the F22 raptor. The M61A2 is a Gatling-style rotary cannon.

    If there are restrictions put in place to limit what players can do, it cannot be a Sandbox game.

    So in Entropia Universe, I can't try to play the game where I try to force others to do something? That's how I want to play as.

    So by your logic, Entropia Universe isn't a sandbox since the game isn't allowing me to play the game as I want.

    You can play Entropia Universe anyway you want including trying to force others to do something, the thing your are not understanding or choosing to ignore is that the other players can ignore you and keep playing the way they want too.  

    In EvE you can stop others from playing the game the way they want too.

    Understand the difference?

    Also, no come back on the F22 thing?

    Entropia Universe is a pyramid scheme disguised as an MMO. If I too were dumping each paycheck into a subpar game I might develop the level of arrogance necessary to enable me to internet lawyer some arbitrary clause I pulled out my ass as a requirement in order for a game to belong into a certain genre.

  • WycliffeWycliffe Member Posts: 354
    Originally posted by Hazelle

    Not to the extent that you see a dramatic jump in prices as has been seen in the game after CCP set the new price levels with their tax.  That was CCPs direct doing and not player speculation.

    Not invincible just stand a fair chance of survival considering the price of the thing Vs. the price of the thing that can knock it down.

    There should be risk for both concerned and not all of the risk being on the industry pilot alone.

    As I said above, a cruel and harsh dystopian society for all concerned, not just for a few with cake and ice cream and paper party hats and goodie bags for the rest.  Industry pilots shouldn't feel like a pinata at children's birthday party - it's very rare that the pinata wins and if it does it's because one of the kids f'd up.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ea-lbdxp4A 

    How much do you think it takes to kill a titan? Probably the same isk ratio as destroyer - hulk. Just a 1 mil rifter can tackle down a 1+ bil carrier while a blackbird keeps it jammed. On the otherhand, a skillful high sp pilot with implants and drugs in pirate faction cruiser, battleship or T3 can faceroll just about anything 1v1 (maybe up to 4-5 or higher depending on the comp) that it comes across with ease.

    You shouldn't be losing your industry ships. Not in highsec, not in lowsec, not in nullsec. If you do, it's because you weren't paying attention and thus deserved it. Quit crying or better yet don't, the EvE community thrives on tears.

  • HazelleHazelle Member Posts: 760
    Originally posted by Wycliffe
    Originally posted by Hazelle

    Not to the extent that you see a dramatic jump in prices as has been seen in the game after CCP set the new price levels with their tax.  That was CCPs direct doing and not player speculation.

    Not invincible just stand a fair chance of survival considering the price of the thing Vs. the price of the thing that can knock it down.

    There should be risk for both concerned and not all of the risk being on the industry pilot alone.

    As I said above, a cruel and harsh dystopian society for all concerned, not just for a few with cake and ice cream and paper party hats and goodie bags for the rest.  Industry pilots shouldn't feel like a pinata at children's birthday party - it's very rare that the pinata wins and if it does it's because one of the kids f'd up.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ea-lbdxp4A 

    How much do you think it takes to kill a titan? Probably the same isk ratio as destroyer - hulk. Just a 1 mil rifter can tackle down a 1+ bil carrier while a blackbird keeps it jammed. On the otherhand, a skillful high sp pilot with implants and drugs in pirate faction cruiser, battleship or T3 can faceroll just about anything 1v1 (maybe up to 4-5 or higher depending on the comp) that it comes across with ease.

    You shouldn't be losing your industry ships. Not in highsec, not in lowsec, not in nullsec. If you do, it's because you weren't paying attention and thus deserved it. Quit crying or better yet don't, the EvE community thrives on tears.

    This is about high sec ganks so your low and null sec examples don't apply since those areas are typically low traffic and once a threat appears in the local system chat you simply dock up and hide long before the threat is able to find you.  Infact, if CCP went ahead and removed the local chat channels from those areas and you'd get all sorts of people agreeing with the high sec miners about the underwhelming performance of hulks when you consider the cost of them.

    With skilled and fitted highsec gankers you'll be killed shortly after you initiate your warp drive even if you are aligned to an object and ATK  - it really doesn't matter.  Oh sure, a new pirate with low skills might not be able to pull it off but properly skilled and fitted folks will be pounding your ass long before your warp drive heats up enough for you to leave the belt.

    There's no tears, after all I quit playing this game a few months ago over issues with CCP not gameplay or player behavior, I'm just pointing out that you'd have to be a raging moron or have an ulterior  motive not to see that the risk vs. reward is significantly out of whack for the industry pilot when it comes to this issue and, as I said above, everyone would be on the same page if CCP removed the local chat channels in null and low sec.

  • WycliffeWycliffe Member Posts: 354
    Originally posted by Hazelle
    Originally posted by Wycliffe
    Originally posted by Hazelle

    Not to the extent that you see a dramatic jump in prices as has been seen in the game after CCP set the new price levels with their tax.  That was CCPs direct doing and not player speculation.

    Not invincible just stand a fair chance of survival considering the price of the thing Vs. the price of the thing that can knock it down.

    There should be risk for both concerned and not all of the risk being on the industry pilot alone.

    As I said above, a cruel and harsh dystopian society for all concerned, not just for a few with cake and ice cream and paper party hats and goodie bags for the rest.  Industry pilots shouldn't feel like a pinata at children's birthday party - it's very rare that the pinata wins and if it does it's because one of the kids f'd up.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ea-lbdxp4A 

    How much do you think it takes to kill a titan? Probably the same isk ratio as destroyer - hulk. Just a 1 mil rifter can tackle down a 1+ bil carrier while a blackbird keeps it jammed. On the otherhand, a skillful high sp pilot with implants and drugs in pirate faction cruiser, battleship or T3 can faceroll just about anything 1v1 (maybe up to 4-5 or higher depending on the comp) that it comes across with ease.

    You shouldn't be losing your industry ships. Not in highsec, not in lowsec, not in nullsec. If you do, it's because you weren't paying attention and thus deserved it. Quit crying or better yet don't, the EvE community thrives on tears.

    This is about high sec ganks so your low and null sec examples don't apply since those areas are typically low traffic and once a threat appears in the local system chat you simply dock up and hide long before the threat is able to find you.  Infact, if CCP went ahead and removed the local chat channels from those areas and you'd get all sorts of people agreeing with the high sec miners about the underwhelming performance of hulks when you consider the cost of them.

    With skilled and fitted highsec gankers you'll be killed shortly after you initiate your warp drive even if you are aligned to an object and ATK  - it really doesn't matter.  Oh sure, a new pirate with low skills might not be able to pull it off but properly skilled and fitted folks will be pounding your ass long before your warp drive heats up enough for you to leave the belt.

    There's no tears, after all I quit playing this game a few months ago over issues with CCP not gameplay or player behavior, I'm just pointing out that you'd have to be a raging moron or have an ulterior  motive not to see that the risk vs. reward is significantly out of whack for the industry pilot when it comes to this issue and, as I said above, everyone would be on the same page if CCP removed the local chat channels in null and low sec.

    Last time I checked there are tons of low traffic highsec systems with plenty of ore to mine. You see someone appearing on grid before they exit warp which has always been more than enough time for anyone aligned and paying attention to get away. Maybe if you had been playing you would know mining has recently become a far more lucrative profession than it was just a month ago. Aside from these scary boogie-men gankers that affect less than 1% of highsec miners, what risk is there again? You'd have to be "a raging moron or have an ulterior motive" to be complaining like this about a non-issue. I have friends from old corps who mine in highsec, all who have had attempted ganks against them and all who survived.

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