I've actually started playing D2 a couple of days ago and having more fun than I thought I would, in spite of the dated graphics.
To answer the title, yes. And here's why, replayability. There isn't any in D3. I stopped playing because really, after reaching inferno and doing the EXACT same quests as before with hardly any randomization it became clear what kind of game it would be.
Diablo 3 is randomly generated. The dungeon layouts, the map events and obviously mobs, their abilities and their placement.
What do you mean by not randomized? Like the main story arc? Wasn't aware that anyone wanted that.
I've actually started playing D2 a couple of days ago and having more fun than I thought I would, in spite of the dated graphics.
That's entirely up to the individual. He's also basing his argument on two false premises. That you have to use the auction house and that human beings prefer to be rewarded but not to be challenged. Humans aren't monkeys. They aren't Pavlov's dogs either.
Well, I guess it's your word against science then. :P Because neurology and primatology tell us the human brain works very much like that. There are well-known experiments that show this. It's actually amazing stuff. I'd recommend reading some Robert Sapolsky, for one (or maybe listening to him, he's funny!)
Here's something else the primatologists / neurologists have shown us that has implications on gaming - and this is even more interesting:
When in such experiments the probability of the subject getting rewarded for the routine is less predictable (thus less than 100%), the subject gets a "secondary dopamine surge". Normally (on a 100% reward rate) the subject only gets a surge once the cue comes in (as shown in the linked blog article).
On a less predictable reward rate, something else hapens: The subject gets the first surge when the cue comes in, and a second one when he presses the lever. And the second one keeps rising until the point the reward is expected. Uncertainty in rewarding makes the whole thing more thrilling, apparently. :P
Something that's even more telling: When you decrease the probabilty of reward to less than 50%, the surge's potency decreases. This is perhaps to be expected. Hey, nobody likes being given the run-around! :P
But what's odder, to me, is that the surge's potency also decreases when you increase the reward rate!
Says Sapolsky:
"Thus, the greatest amount of dopamine is released under the circumstance where there is some expectation of reward, but with the greatest degree of unpredictability. This strikes me as a neurobiological explanation for why intermittent reinforcement is the most effective reinforcement regime."
The problem with that theory is what humans consider a reward varies. You might lke to get spanked. Then again you might not. Our behaviors are much more complex than most primates. Sure if trigger a pleasure responses they're all going to have the same response but people may play the same game for vastly different reasons. That's why you'll find most studies use a direct stimulus. It's not me against science it's me against people trying to use science in ways that don't apply to further their agendas.
Oh, but that's simple, zym. You just wire 'em up and and measure the activity! I'm sure you'll come up with more of a positive surge on loot drops vs. in-game-spanking!
To me the first Diablo was a lot more addictive, I killed 2 mice and played it on and off for a year. I never liked D2 as much and tired after a month.
To me D2 and D3 seems about as addictive but that is my personal opinion, I kinda like killing stuff more than I like looting and I know that might not be so common.
Played through once, did the first 2 acts at the second difficulty then stopped entirely. Really wish I didn't buy it and that I still had my $60 bucks...
The AH definitely had a big impact on the enjoyment of the game. D2 was an online casino with a cool theme. A big part of the thrill was the chance of finding that item that everyone wanted but didn't have. Having the gold, and even worse cash, AHs completely neuter that aspect of it. The AH works in games like WoW because most of the loot that matters and that makes your character more powerful binds to your character on pickup. You had to be there for the kill to have the loot.
I think years of playing WoW and other MMOs, since my D2 days, is also a big factor. A game like D3 where I'm just using 1-2 abilities over and over, and with little to no team coordination is just plain boring. I need several action bars full of skills, a coordinated party and complex boss strategies to hold my attention now, at least as far as gameplay mechanics go.
To me the first Diablo was a lot more addictive, I killed 2 mice and played it on and off for a year. I never liked D2 as much and tired after a month.
To me D2 and D3 seems about as addictive but that is my personal opinion, I kinda like killing stuff more than I like looting and I know that might not be so common.
I think it's fairly common. I've always felt Diablo 1 was the superior game. D2 just had so much crap thrown into it that had nothing to do with the game. I'm not a collector or stat tinkerer. Just give me a big axe and let me kill stuff.
I see. So, you'd be happier if all loot was removed and you just ran around in starter gear.
Sounds great. Fun.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
To me the first Diablo was a lot more addictive, I killed 2 mice and played it on and off for a year. I never liked D2 as much and tired after a month.
To me D2 and D3 seems about as addictive but that is my personal opinion, I kinda like killing stuff more than I like looting and I know that might not be so common.
I think it's fairly common. I've always felt Diablo 1 was the superior game. D2 just had so much crap thrown into it that had nothing to do with the game. I'm not a collector or stat tinkerer. Just give me a big axe and let me kill stuff.
On the same page. The first Diablo was the game for me in the series - as well as in the genre, I guess. Never played another ARPG I really enjoyed that much.
Also, I did like the old Battle.net chat and the ear-collecting bounty hunters.
To me the first Diablo was a lot more addictive, I killed 2 mice and played it on and off for a year. I never liked D2 as much and tired after a month.
To me D2 and D3 seems about as addictive but that is my personal opinion, I kinda like killing stuff more than I like looting and I know that might not be so common.
I think it's fairly common. I've always felt Diablo 1 was the superior game. D2 just had so much crap thrown into it that had nothing to do with the game. I'm not a collector or stat tinkerer. Just give me a big axe and let me kill stuff.
I see. So, you'd be happier if all loot was removed and you just ran around in starter gear.
Sounds great. Fun.
Ever play Diablo 1? It's nothing like that.
I did. And perhaps that's why I put thousands of hours on D2 instead of D1 or D3.
Simplicity is boring and bland and it surprises me that some of you prefer having little or no loot to a woundrous loot table full of possibility.
/baffled
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
Feel the same way...and i was a huge fan of Diablo 2.....Diablo 3 i'm login in for 2 mins or so.....so damm boring.....
What aspect fo the game do you find boring? Maybe it's not the game, it's you. As we grow older, our tastes change. If you can't enjoy the game for even 2 minutes, it's you for sure.
Feel the same way...and i was a huge fan of Diablo 2.....Diablo 3 i'm login in for 2 mins or so.....so damm boring.....
What aspect fo the game do you find boring? Maybe it's not the game, it's you. As we grow older, our tastes change. If you can't enjoy the game for even 2 minutes, it's you for sure.
With most fans expressing dissatisfaction with the quality and quantity of legendary and set items in Diablo III, I thought it would be interesting to hear the opinion of someone who, unlike any current Blizzard employees, has actually designed full suites of Set and Unique items for Diablo II. No, not Erich Schaefer, but a mod maker and author of our one-time column, Dead Fish.
Brother Laz created the Median XL mod, and while updating it over the years he created thousands of unique and set items, and was always in direct contact with the players, learning exactly what they liked and didn’t like, and used and didn’t use. Laz is also an analytical and clever guy, and writes entertaining columns, so long as you like sarcasm and aren’t the one he’s pointing his barbs at.
True to my hopes, Laz had plenty of observations on where the Diablo III legendaries went wrong, and he’s got a whole three-category ranking system for types of unique items and the players that they appeal to. By his measurement, Diablo III’s only hit one of those types. I’m overcomplicating things in this summary, so check out the following quote and then click through to read the whole article. I guarantee it will give you a new way to think about unique items and will make very clear why they are so lackluster, as currently presented in Diablo III.
The Spike – Plays to win, no matter what it takes or how boring the path to victory may be. This is the guy who is perfectly fine with the fact that his D3 wizard wields an axe and his D2 sorc wears a green potato bag on her head. This is the dickwad who picks Tryndamere in 3v3 blind pick and after banging your *** for 20 minutes goes GG EASY NOOOBS in all chat.
The Johnny - Sees games as a means of self-expression. This is the guy who builds a Molten Boulder druid, intentionally wears tier 2 paladin gear in WoW when not actively fighting and picks Orianna. Usually he gets trampled by Spike but sometimes it works and then he feels great.
The Timmy - Likes big stuff. Uses the rocket launcher because it makes big explosions. Goes all offense in every build because it makes big damage numbers. Picks Garen and screams DEMACIAAA every time he spins2win from the bush. Plays for fun where fun is defined as smashing stuff but is not willing to get bored out of his skull to maximise his success rate.
Diablo 2′s uniques appeal to each of these groups, whereas Diablo 3′s legendaries (aside from being the victim of a typical Blizzard overnerf) are boring and therefore only appeal to Spikes. In fact, between legendaries being the equivalent of a Mercedes SL350 Blue Efficiency in terms of passion stirred up and the lack of fun and viable wizard spells not named after the company or a Starcraft unit and similar problems for other classes, Diablo 3 seems to appeal only to Spike players.
Click through for the full guest article, which includes illustrative items of all three types, plus fix-it proscriptions for Diablo III going forward.
Uniques, monkeys and typewriters
Uniques. Or legendaries for you whippersnappers. The whole reason anyone played Diablo II, other than the potential to make imbalanced overpowered builds, was the potential to find imbalanced overpowered uniques.
So naturally the community complained that uniques were too powerful and everything was better during those golden days before LoD when rares were the best items, by which they meant rares were the best items if you played the best class (barb) and sorcs were restricted to very specific uniques and sets with +skills and FCR on them, and by community I mean the few people above 10 years of age who actually cared about balance instead of jerking off at their EZ BOT’D EBOTDZ.
Anyway, from a game design point of view making rares the best makes total sense. They are Random and this is a game built on Randomness so if we put more Randomness into your Random then you can farm while you farm and enjoy the gift of Randomness. Plus, Enigma was overpowered.
……
Time to confess: I was one of those hippies too. My Diablo 2 mod Median XL (you may have heard of it, perhaps when it became #3 Overall Mod of the Year at ModDB or from that interview with the Blizzard employee who admitted to playing MXL instead of working on inferno class balance [based on a true story]) started out highly idealistic and with no uniques at all because rares were meant to be the best.
The overwhelming community response was that there was no community because shockingly noone wanted to play the mod. In a strange coincidence, the popularity of the mod increased linearly with the power of the characters, compensated by an arms race on the part of the monsters. Enter a bunch of uniques. Enter sacred items, basically Diablo 2 elite items but only in uberlevels and with their own uniques. Enter a second set of sacred uniques. Today there is a broken OP unique for everyone and rares are useless. The community likes it that way and claims the item system is amazing.
Take that, yellowbugs.
Player Classifications
Why? If you ask a professional game designer (a guy who can use the word “conveyance” to describe progression) he will claim there are three types of players.
The Spike – Plays to win, no matter what it takes or how boring the path to victory may be. This is the guy who is perfectly fine with the fact that his D3 wizard wields an axe and his D2 sorc wears a green potato bag on her head. This is the dickwad who picks Tryndamere in 3v3 blind pick and after banging your *** for 20 minutes goes GG EASY NOOOBS in all chat.
The Johnny – Sees games as a means of self-expression. This is the guy who builds a Molten Boulder druid, intentionally wears tier 2 paladin gear in WoW when not actively fighting and picks Orianna. Usually he gets trampled by Spike but sometimes it works and then he feels great.
The Timmy – Likes big stuff. Uses the rocket launcher because it makes big explosions. Goes all offense in every build because it makes big damage numbers. Picks Garen and screams DEMACIAAA every time he spins2win from the bush. Plays for fun where fun is defined as smashing stuff but is not willing to get bored out of his skull to maximise his success rate.
……
Diablo 2′s uniques appeal to each of these groups, whereas Diablo 3′s legendaries (aside from being the victim of a typical Blizzard overnerf) are boring and therefore only appeal to Spikes. In fact, between legendaries being the equivalent of a Mercedes SL350 Blue Efficiency in terms of passion stirred up and the lack of fun and viable wizard spells not named after the company or a Starcraft unit and similar problems for other classes, Diablo 3 seems to appeal only to Spike players.
These are the people who first cleared inferno difficulty by skipping inferno difficulty because winning is what matters and not taking part in the actual game. Because there are no builds and therefore no real way to lose the game they get no satisfaction from making a good build in Diablo 3, so they are now playing the auction house. And they don’t actually give a damn about legendaries because they found some blue in a garbage bin behind whatever-is-his-name’s stand (how did I forget the name of this amazingly indepth NPC who contributes to the incredible storyline of Diablo 3) and it deals 6 more dps. Oops.
2% Chance To Cast Level 5 Amplify Damage On Striking
+1-99 % Deadly Strike (+1 Per Character Level)
All Resistances +40
Socketed (2)
Cool name, neat Amplify Damage proc and magic arrows and an alternate way to inflict damage and a big resist bonus. It is sort of viable, if you assume spending more than 2 seconds to kill a cow pack is viable in this game. This is one of the best designed uniques in D2 because it has a consistent theme without giving up usability and is good enough to spawn its own build.
Median XL:
Freakshow — Scythe (Sacred)
Two-Hand Damage: (675-727) to (1335-1407)
Durability: 74
Required Strength: 466
Required Dexterity: 466
Required Level: 100
+(10 to 12) to Necromancer Skill Levels
+(301 to 350)% Enhanced damage
Adds 250-750 damage
+(3 to 5)% to Spell Damage
+4 to Maximum Necromancer Minions
Random Resistance Bonus (-25 to +75, changes every 2 seconds)
10% Reanimate as: Ratfink
15% Reanimate as: Slain Soul
15% Reanimate as: Slain Soul
Socketed: 6
I discovered pretty quickly that the only way to make “not the best” uniques popular was to make them crazy in some way. Usually it took the form of a chance to cast a weird skill or reanimate a cool monster. This proved so popular than 90% of the sacred unique weapons has a CtC of some kind, giving the player the satisfaction of flashy visuals that explode the screen and may even change gameplay in interesting ways.
Diablo 3:
None, unless their idea of a Johnny item is a legendary with a smattering of random stats and 2.1% chance to knock back.
+3-309 To Maximum Damage (+3.125 Per Character Level)
20% Increased Attack Speed
6-8% Mana Stolen Per Hit
Heal Stamina Plus 30%
+10 To Strength
+5 To Dexterity
Knockback
Big bow, big damage, knockback for extra trololol power. Gets beaten by a few other items, notably every runeword melee weapon in the game but back in its day this was the brute power item. Diablo 2 has a number of these: generally every item you remember because it is LOL OP was a Timmy item.
Median XL:
Danmaku — Athulua’s Hand (Sacred)
Defense: (2666-3339)
Durability: 29
(Amazon Only)
Required Dexterity: 349
Required Level: 100
10% Chance to cast level 15 Javelin Nova when you Kill an Enemy
1% Chance to cast level 45 Fire Bolt Nova on Striking
25% Chance to cast level 5 Javelin on Striking
+(2 to 3) to Amazon Skill Levels
35% Increased Attack Speed
25% Faster Block Rate
1% Increased Chance of Blocking
Adds 50-100 damage
+(41 to 50)% to Fire Spell Damage
+(201 to 250)% Enhanced Defense
Socketed: 4
It’s a javazon shield with 25% chance to trigger a javelin that deals weapon-based damage and therefore has 25% chance to trigger another javelin which triggers a javelin and so on until the universe collapses. Also has 10% chance to shoot a lot of javelins on kill which trigger more javelins on hit. Javelins? Javelins. Javelins! Javelins javelins javelins. Javelins? Javelins!
Diablo 3: Timmy appeal is greatly reduced by the lack of big numbers and spectacle. No one likes 1.9% chance to stun one target or +30% enhanced damage. That’s, like, totally, like, lame.
I hope you noticed all of the pre-1.10 exceptional class uniques have essentially the same stats and shared the same property of being the best items in their slot until 1.10. Lovelessly designed through copy/paste and intentionally overpowered – the ultimate Spike item.
Median XL:
Scales of the Serpent — Gothic Plate (Sacred)
Defense: (7012-9696)
Durability: 99
Required Strength: 614
Required Level: 100
15% Chance to cast level 40 Carpet of Spiders on Attack
8% Chance to cast level 12 Time Strike on Striking
+150% Damage to Undead
Adds 400-600 poison damage over 2 seconds
-50% to Enemy Poison Resistance
10% Chance of Crushing Blow
Enhanced Weapon Damage +(41 to 50)%
+(251 to 300)% Enhanced Defense
+100 to Strength
+50 Life on Striking in Melee
(31 to 40)% Chance of Uninterruptable Attack
Socketed: 6
The ‘SotS’, repeatedly nerfed to no avail and es still #1 in Brazil. Read a build guide (especially one that lists every uberquest as Easy, Easy, Easy, Easy, Easy and Astrogha as Easy-Medium) and among the incomprehensible acronyms you’ll probably find ‘SotS’ somewhere. This is intentional, because the bright lights at Blizzard cracked down on ‘overpowered items’ and the result is:
Diablo 3:
Remember when I said every uni– sorry, lamedreary in Diablo 3 was aimed at Spikes? Unfortunately the Spikes don’t want them because they do less damage than the above mentioned dumpster blue. A big fat zero again.
Verdict
Diablo 3 lamedrearies are aimed at Spike players at the intentional expense of Johnny and Timmy (and still manage to fail because they are too weak). Therefore buffing them won’t achieve anything unless they become the best items in the game or Spike will still ignore them, and won’t make them any more tactically interesting or bigger so the Johnny and Spike aren’t satisfied either.
This may explain why people NOW claim uniques should be the best, despite advocating the opposite in the past 11.5 years. Only the Spikes want them to be literally the best – the Johnnies and Timmies simply don’t care anymore and have given up on the game after the Great Death Blossom Disillusion and the Why Is My Hero So Weak Disillusion respectively. Their dreams crushed, all that is left is normal difficulty and the rose coloured binoculars pointed at Guild Wars 2. And of course Teemo in your ranked game. Thanks, Blizzard.
So there’s Laz’s semi-professional opinion. Hard to argue with his conclusions, as far as I can see. What do you guys think? Is he right? Can Blizzard resuscitate the legendary and set items in their game, and what could they have been thinking, launching with an array of green and orange items that so many fans realized at a glance were underpowered and uninteresting?
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
To me the first Diablo was a lot more addictive, I killed 2 mice and played it on and off for a year. I never liked D2 as much and tired after a month.
To me D2 and D3 seems about as addictive but that is my personal opinion, I kinda like killing stuff more than I like looting and I know that might not be so common.
I think it's fairly common. I've always felt Diablo 1 was the superior game. D2 just had so much crap thrown into it that had nothing to do with the game. I'm not a collector or stat tinkerer. Just give me a big axe and let me kill stuff.
I see. So, you'd be happier if all loot was removed and you just ran around in starter gear.
Sounds great. Fun.
Ever play Diablo 1? It's nothing like that.
I did. And perhaps that's why I put thousands of hours on D2 instead of D1 or D3.
Simplicity is boring and bland and it surprises me that some of you prefer having little or no loot to a woundrous loot table full of possibility.
/baffled
People like different things. I liked the fight not the loot. The problem with D2 is most of the rarest loot is not only worthless but you'll never see half of it unless you do boss runs for years on end. In years of playing the game I never got a full set of greens and what I dd see was crap. Most of the useful PvP builds were one trick ponies built with duped items. You could spend hours building a toon just to find when you got to Hell what worked in nightmare no longer worked and there was no way to change it. When you did build something for Hell you had to put up with being gimped until you got to hell so you could finish your toon. Complexity for the sake of complexity is bad design. Everything should have a function. D3 suffers from the same problem but far less than D2. At least D3 has an auction house so you might one day get a whole set, if you're rich enough. I'm just not that attatched to pixels.
You have it backwards. It's the loot in D3 that is useless and extremely difficult to acquire the best loot. The legendaries alone are laughable.
The idea that a more "complex" loot system is cumbersome is really... just plain sad. You're going to love the future of gaming, you'll get more of less. Perfect.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
People like different things. I liked the fight not the loot. The problem with D2 is most of the rarest loot is not only worthless but you'll never see half of it unless you do boss runs for years on end. In years of playing the game I never got a full set of greens and what I dd see was crap. Most of the useful PvP builds were one trick ponies built with duped items. You could spend hours building a toon just to find when you got to Hell what worked in nightmare no longer worked and there was no way to change it. When you did build something for Hell you had to put up with being gimped until you got to hell so you could finish your toon. Complexity for the sake of complexity is bad design. Everything should have a function. D3 suffers from the same problem but far less than D2. At least D3 has an auction house so you might one day get a whole set, if you're rich enough. I'm just not that attatched to pixels.
"Back to ze rootz" is a valid thing, d3 is probably closer to d1 than it was to d2, however i do think, that this game would be a let-down if it would be released instead of d2, the whole game is complexity for the sake of complexity, imo.
Crafting pages, tomes and books for no reason, since they have a quite generous drop rate.
Stats with meaningles secondary effects (1 resist for 10 int, really? ) just so that every class can have a primary one.
Affixes like +(30-110)str +(30-110)vit as one prefix just for the sake of making loot more random.
Constant barrage of lore and quest stuff so that the player feels entertained after dying 10 times on invulnerable jumping teleporting mobs.
Invulnerable jumping teleporting mobs, because a immersive environment and fun skill and resource system is OBVIOUSLY not enough.
Dont want me get started on the skill and resource system
To me the first Diablo was a lot more addictive, I killed 2 mice and played it on and off for a year. I never liked D2 as much and tired after a month.
To me D2 and D3 seems about as addictive but that is my personal opinion, I kinda like killing stuff more than I like looting and I know that might not be so common.
I think it's fairly common. I've always felt Diablo 1 was the superior game. D2 just had so much crap thrown into it that had nothing to do with the game. I'm not a collector or stat tinkerer. Just give me a big axe and let me kill stuff.
I see. So, you'd be happier if all loot was removed and you just ran around in starter gear.
Sounds great. Fun.
Ever play Diablo 1? It's nothing like that.
I did. And perhaps that's why I put thousands of hours on D2 instead of D1 or D3.
Simplicity is boring and bland and it surprises me that some of you prefer having little or no loot to a woundrous loot table full of possibility.
/baffled
People like different things. I liked the fight not the loot. The problem with D2 is most of the rarest loot is not only worthless but you'll never see half of it unless you do boss runs for years on end. In years of playing the game I never got a full set of greens and what I dd see was crap. Most of the useful PvP builds were one trick ponies built with duped items. You could spend hours building a toon just to find when you got to Hell what worked in nightmare no longer worked and there was no way to change it. When you did build something for Hell you had to put up with being gimped until you got to hell so you could finish your toon. Complexity for the sake of complexity is bad design. Everything should have a function. D3 suffers from the same problem but far less than D2. At least D3 has an auction house so you might one day get a whole set, if you're rich enough. I'm just not that attatched to pixels.
You have it backwards. It's the loot in D3 that is useless and extremely difficult to acquire the best loot. The legendaries alone are laughable.
The idea that a more "complex" loot system is cumbersome is really... just plain sad. You're going to love the future of gaming, you'll get more of less. Perfect.
I don't need the "best" loot. I need the loot that works and it's easy enough to get for the most part. I play games for fun I don't want to play a spreadsheet. If I did I would be playing a good one, like EVE. Theorycrafting isn't my thing.
Right. Not sure why you brought up loot in the first place, you don't care for it. "Just an axe", well there ya go, on your way then.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
Really difficult to say. I seriously have no idea how to measure that.
I am personally sick of DII but couldn't find a replacement for it. DIII is a satisfactory replacement for me. But I never played DII fanatically non-stop, and I do not play DIII fanatically, either.
I've actually started playing D2 a couple of days ago and having more fun than I thought I would, in spite of the dated graphics.
To answer the title, yes. And here's why, replayability. There isn't any in D3. I stopped playing because really, after reaching inferno and doing the EXACT same quests as before with hardly any randomization it became clear what kind of game it would be.
Diablo 3 is randomly generated. The dungeon layouts, the map events and obviously mobs, their abilities and their placement.
What do you mean by not randomized? Like the main story arc? Wasn't aware that anyone wanted that.
i said hardly any randomization, that means, side quests, dungeons, surface events. I like most of the older players remember exactly what D2 was like, there was so much to do it was optional to do the main questline. That's what's missing from D3. TONS of content is missing which makes the game boring. That's why it doesn't have replayability. People definitely wanted that, they wanted an updated version of D2.
This is why most won't go past inferno, and it's the reason why there are tons of compaints about this game scattered across the web (oh trust me it's not just the general malaise found on this site this time).
I've actually started playing D2 a couple of days ago and having more fun than I thought I would, in spite of the dated graphics.
To answer the title, yes. And here's why, replayability. There isn't any in D3. I stopped playing because really, after reaching inferno and doing the EXACT same quests as before with hardly any randomization it became clear what kind of game it would be.
Diablo 3 is randomly generated. The dungeon layouts, the map events and obviously mobs, their abilities and their placement.
What do you mean by not randomized? Like the main story arc? Wasn't aware that anyone wanted that.
i said hardly any randomization, that means, side quests, dungeons, surface events. I like most of the older players remember exactly what D2 was like, there was so much to do it was optional to do the main questline. That's what's missing from D3. TONS of content is missing which makes the game boring. That's why it doesn't have replayability. People definitely wanted that, they wanted an updated version of D2.
This is why most won't go past inferno, and it's the reason why there are tons of compaints about this game scattered across the web (oh trust me it's not just the general malaise found on this site this time).
The world design and the quests are on rails. There is handholding and you cant start a game and go anywhere. Like first going to act1 and then to act3. When you are making a game you are really restarting a quest. That type of quest focus/dependence is very boring and bad for a ARPG. Its not very fun to listen to the same voice overs and talk to the same npc:s a million times when trying to farm... I want to kill millions of monsters, including mini bosses and the act boss, without having to think about story, talking to npc:s or doing a quest line. Story and quests are fun the first time. After that it becomes very annoying.
I don't think it's less addictive. Most people I know who played Diablo 2 only played through it once on Normal, delved maybe a little into another class, then quit.
I'd say Diablo 2 was much more addictive. There's no simple answer to why either.
D2 just offers much more. The quests are much better (hi Zultun Kulle blood/brain etc). Enemies are less annoying to play against (hi act3 firebirds, act2 flies). The zones themselves are better designed. I didn't feel pissed off having to play them again as I do now. For example act3 quest to kill 3 ballistas/trebuchet and the mobs you have to fight in this quest make me just overall pissed off. Trololoo i has a poison hand that is a homing missile and you can't ever escape.... cool stuff Blizz.
Playing D2 in hardcore also was much more stabilized. Now in D3 you can easily die to a single pack of champs if you don't run and WP and just make a new game. Sure it's challenging, but I wouldn't say it's good design. Limiting what certain mobs can get as special mobs would help greatly... teleporting mortar molten flies for example in act 2 shouldn't be allowed to exist. Changes should be made to certain mobs to make them less obnoxious.
I just died in HC with my 49 monk, because I was dumb, but seriously there needs to be adjustments made to some special mobs. Example, Soul Lasher - Horde Fast... you die like instantly when they lick you with those amounts. It's stupid, just like MULTIPLE SHOT LIGHTNING ENHANCED CONVICTION AURA did in D2... that was never ever fixed either... hope Blizz can see wtf is going on here.
Playing HC is the only way to even enjoy this game, unless some specific changes are made, I won't bother playing it after my next char dies to similar shenanigans.
Sadly, those who bravely venture to play HC are probably out of Blizzard's caring limit as they don't contribute to RMAH.
I am really not concerned if D3 is less addictive than D2. What if it is?
I have already played it for a month .. and probably will play more (since i have not finished Inferno, and there are alts to level up). It is worth every penny i pay for .. and that i get it from the WOW annual pass.
It is a good fun game. If it is less addictive than D2 .. so what?
I've actually started playing D2 a couple of days ago and having more fun than I thought I would, in spite of the dated graphics.
That's entirely up to the individual. He's also basing his argument on two false premises. That you have to use the auction house and that human beings prefer to be rewarded but not to be challenged. Humans aren't monkeys. They aren't Pavlov's dogs either.
There is no way anyone completes inferno without the use of the AH. The drops are nerfed because it is easier to get gear from the AH.
You know I wish people would quit telling me I've done the impossible. It's going to make it hard to fit my head through doorways. I've done it. I'm not even that good, just persistant.
HuH, you Zymurgeist must be having a laugh with us all, for Kripp was the first to beat the game that everyone knows off. Unless you mean you beat it in LittleGirl Core but that does not matter in the least for that mode is to learn the game.
I don't need the "best" loot. I need the loot that works and it's easy enough to get for the most part. I play games for fun I don't want to play a spreadsheet. If I did I would be playing a good one, like EVE. Theorycrafting isn't my thing.
Play hardcore then. I don't even understand why you call this "easy enough" as a softie. Have fun with that in HC auction house..it might not be that easy enough, and you might actually need to learn to play.
I mean sure its easy with your garbage dps only spec and gear, chain die and kill mobs.... OMG ITS EASY GAME? Play like the men do and then talk.
Trying to say you play games for fun means nothing if you are willing to play D3 as a softie. It's fun to die all the time and be meaningless? It's awesome to have no worry about your character? It's way too spreadsheety to actually try to not die? IMO if anyone likes D3 as a softie, they're cowards that have no will to learn.
I am really not concerned if D3 is less addictive than D2. What if it is?
I have already played it for a month .. and probably will play more (since i have not finished Inferno, and there are alts to level up). It is worth every penny i pay for .. and that i get it from the WOW annual pass.
It is a good fun game. If it is less addictive than D2 .. so what?
Yeah, you're right.
As consumers, we shouldn't concern ourselves with such trivial things as product quality, value and longevity.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
Feel the same way...and i was a huge fan of Diablo 2.....Diablo 3 i'm login in for 2 mins or so.....so damm boring.....
What aspect fo the game do you find boring? Maybe it's not the game, it's you. As we grow older, our tastes change. If you can't enjoy the game for even 2 minutes, it's you for sure.
With most fans expressing dissatisfaction with the quality and quantity of legendary and set items in Diablo III, I thought it would be interesting to hear the opinion of someone who, unlike any current Blizzard employees, has actually designed full suites of Set and Unique items for Diablo II. No, not Erich Schaefer, but a mod maker and author of our one-time column, Dead Fish.
Brother Laz created the Median XL mod, and while updating it over the years he created thousands of unique and set items, and was always in direct contact with the players, learning exactly what they liked and didn’t like, and used and didn’t use. Laz is also an analytical and clever guy, and writes entertaining columns, so long as you like sarcasm and aren’t the one he’s pointing his barbs at.
True to my hopes, Laz had plenty of observations on where the Diablo III legendaries went wrong, and he’s got a whole three-category ranking system for types of unique items and the players that they appeal to. By his measurement, Diablo III’s only hit one of those types. I’m overcomplicating things in this summary, so check out the following quote and then click through to read the whole article. I guarantee it will give you a new way to think about unique items and will make very clear why they are so lackluster, as currently presented in Diablo III.
The Spike – Plays to win, no matter what it takes or how boring the path to victory may be. This is the guy who is perfectly fine with the fact that his D3 wizard wields an axe and his D2 sorc wears a green potato bag on her head. This is the dickwad who picks Tryndamere in 3v3 blind pick and after banging your *** for 20 minutes goes GG EASY NOOOBS in all chat.
The Johnny - Sees games as a means of self-expression. This is the guy who builds a Molten Boulder druid, intentionally wears tier 2 paladin gear in WoW when not actively fighting and picks Orianna. Usually he gets trampled by Spike but sometimes it works and then he feels great.
The Timmy - Likes big stuff. Uses the rocket launcher because it makes big explosions. Goes all offense in every build because it makes big damage numbers. Picks Garen and screams DEMACIAAA every time he spins2win from the bush. Plays for fun where fun is defined as smashing stuff but is not willing to get bored out of his skull to maximise his success rate.
Diablo 2′s uniques appeal to each of these groups, whereas Diablo 3′s legendaries (aside from being the victim of a typical Blizzard overnerf) are boring and therefore only appeal to Spikes. In fact, between legendaries being the equivalent of a Mercedes SL350 Blue Efficiency in terms of passion stirred up and the lack of fun and viable wizard spells not named after the company or a Starcraft unit and similar problems for other classes, Diablo 3 seems to appeal only to Spike players.
Click through for the full guest article, which includes illustrative items of all three types, plus fix-it proscriptions for Diablo III going forward.
Uniques, monkeys and typewriters
Uniques. Or legendaries for you whippersnappers. The whole reason anyone played Diablo II, other than the potential to make imbalanced overpowered builds, was the potential to find imbalanced overpowered uniques.
So naturally the community complained that uniques were too powerful and everything was better during those golden days before LoD when rares were the best items, by which they meant rares were the best items if you played the best class (barb) and sorcs were restricted to very specific uniques and sets with +skills and FCR on them, and by community I mean the few people above 10 years of age who actually cared about balance instead of jerking off at their EZ BOT’D EBOTDZ.
Anyway, from a game design point of view making rares the best makes total sense. They are Random and this is a game built on Randomness so if we put more Randomness into your Random then you can farm while you farm and enjoy the gift of Randomness. Plus, Enigma was overpowered.
……
Time to confess: I was one of those hippies too. My Diablo 2 mod Median XL (you may have heard of it, perhaps when it became #3 Overall Mod of the Year at ModDB or from that interview with the Blizzard employee who admitted to playing MXL instead of working on inferno class balance [based on a true story]) started out highly idealistic and with no uniques at all because rares were meant to be the best.
The overwhelming community response was that there was no community because shockingly noone wanted to play the mod. In a strange coincidence, the popularity of the mod increased linearly with the power of the characters, compensated by an arms race on the part of the monsters. Enter a bunch of uniques. Enter sacred items, basically Diablo 2 elite items but only in uberlevels and with their own uniques. Enter a second set of sacred uniques. Today there is a broken OP unique for everyone and rares are useless. The community likes it that way and claims the item system is amazing.
Take that, yellowbugs.
Player Classifications
Why? If you ask a professional game designer (a guy who can use the word “conveyance” to describe progression) he will claim there are three types of players.
The Spike – Plays to win, no matter what it takes or how boring the path to victory may be. This is the guy who is perfectly fine with the fact that his D3 wizard wields an axe and his D2 sorc wears a green potato bag on her head. This is the dickwad who picks Tryndamere in 3v3 blind pick and after banging your *** for 20 minutes goes GG EASY NOOOBS in all chat.
The Johnny – Sees games as a means of self-expression. This is the guy who builds a Molten Boulder druid, intentionally wears tier 2 paladin gear in WoW when not actively fighting and picks Orianna. Usually he gets trampled by Spike but sometimes it works and then he feels great.
The Timmy – Likes big stuff. Uses the rocket launcher because it makes big explosions. Goes all offense in every build because it makes big damage numbers. Picks Garen and screams DEMACIAAA every time he spins2win from the bush. Plays for fun where fun is defined as smashing stuff but is not willing to get bored out of his skull to maximise his success rate.
……
Diablo 2′s uniques appeal to each of these groups, whereas Diablo 3′s legendaries (aside from being the victim of a typical Blizzard overnerf) are boring and therefore only appeal to Spikes. In fact, between legendaries being the equivalent of a Mercedes SL350 Blue Efficiency in terms of passion stirred up and the lack of fun and viable wizard spells not named after the company or a Starcraft unit and similar problems for other classes, Diablo 3 seems to appeal only to Spike players.
These are the people who first cleared inferno difficulty by skipping inferno difficulty because winning is what matters and not taking part in the actual game. Because there are no builds and therefore no real way to lose the game they get no satisfaction from making a good build in Diablo 3, so they are now playing the auction house. And they don’t actually give a damn about legendaries because they found some blue in a garbage bin behind whatever-is-his-name’s stand (how did I forget the name of this amazingly indepth NPC who contributes to the incredible storyline of Diablo 3) and it deals 6 more dps. Oops.
2% Chance To Cast Level 5 Amplify Damage On Striking
+1-99 % Deadly Strike (+1 Per Character Level)
All Resistances +40
Socketed (2)
Cool name, neat Amplify Damage proc and magic arrows and an alternate way to inflict damage and a big resist bonus. It is sort of viable, if you assume spending more than 2 seconds to kill a cow pack is viable in this game. This is one of the best designed uniques in D2 because it has a consistent theme without giving up usability and is good enough to spawn its own build.
Median XL:
Freakshow — Scythe (Sacred)
Two-Hand Damage: (675-727) to (1335-1407)
Durability: 74
Required Strength: 466
Required Dexterity: 466
Required Level: 100
+(10 to 12) to Necromancer Skill Levels
+(301 to 350)% Enhanced damage
Adds 250-750 damage
+(3 to 5)% to Spell Damage
+4 to Maximum Necromancer Minions
Random Resistance Bonus (-25 to +75, changes every 2 seconds)
10% Reanimate as: Ratfink
15% Reanimate as: Slain Soul
15% Reanimate as: Slain Soul
Socketed: 6
I discovered pretty quickly that the only way to make “not the best” uniques popular was to make them crazy in some way. Usually it took the form of a chance to cast a weird skill or reanimate a cool monster. This proved so popular than 90% of the sacred unique weapons has a CtC of some kind, giving the player the satisfaction of flashy visuals that explode the screen and may even change gameplay in interesting ways.
Diablo 3:
None, unless their idea of a Johnny item is a legendary with a smattering of random stats and 2.1% chance to knock back.
+3-309 To Maximum Damage (+3.125 Per Character Level)
20% Increased Attack Speed
6-8% Mana Stolen Per Hit
Heal Stamina Plus 30%
+10 To Strength
+5 To Dexterity
Knockback
Big bow, big damage, knockback for extra trololol power. Gets beaten by a few other items, notably every runeword melee weapon in the game but back in its day this was the brute power item. Diablo 2 has a number of these: generally every item you remember because it is LOL OP was a Timmy item.
Median XL:
Danmaku — Athulua’s Hand (Sacred)
Defense: (2666-3339)
Durability: 29
(Amazon Only)
Required Dexterity: 349
Required Level: 100
10% Chance to cast level 15 Javelin Nova when you Kill an Enemy
1% Chance to cast level 45 Fire Bolt Nova on Striking
25% Chance to cast level 5 Javelin on Striking
+(2 to 3) to Amazon Skill Levels
35% Increased Attack Speed
25% Faster Block Rate
1% Increased Chance of Blocking
Adds 50-100 damage
+(41 to 50)% to Fire Spell Damage
+(201 to 250)% Enhanced Defense
Socketed: 4
It’s a javazon shield with 25% chance to trigger a javelin that deals weapon-based damage and therefore has 25% chance to trigger another javelin which triggers a javelin and so on until the universe collapses. Also has 10% chance to shoot a lot of javelins on kill which trigger more javelins on hit. Javelins? Javelins. Javelins! Javelins javelins javelins. Javelins? Javelins!
Diablo 3: Timmy appeal is greatly reduced by the lack of big numbers and spectacle. No one likes 1.9% chance to stun one target or +30% enhanced damage. That’s, like, totally, like, lame.
I hope you noticed all of the pre-1.10 exceptional class uniques have essentially the same stats and shared the same property of being the best items in their slot until 1.10. Lovelessly designed through copy/paste and intentionally overpowered – the ultimate Spike item.
Median XL:
Scales of the Serpent — Gothic Plate (Sacred)
Defense: (7012-9696)
Durability: 99
Required Strength: 614
Required Level: 100
15% Chance to cast level 40 Carpet of Spiders on Attack
8% Chance to cast level 12 Time Strike on Striking
+150% Damage to Undead
Adds 400-600 poison damage over 2 seconds
-50% to Enemy Poison Resistance
10% Chance of Crushing Blow
Enhanced Weapon Damage +(41 to 50)%
+(251 to 300)% Enhanced Defense
+100 to Strength
+50 Life on Striking in Melee
(31 to 40)% Chance of Uninterruptable Attack
Socketed: 6
The ‘SotS’, repeatedly nerfed to no avail and es still #1 in Brazil. Read a build guide (especially one that lists every uberquest as Easy, Easy, Easy, Easy, Easy and Astrogha as Easy-Medium) and among the incomprehensible acronyms you’ll probably find ‘SotS’ somewhere. This is intentional, because the bright lights at Blizzard cracked down on ‘overpowered items’ and the result is:
Diablo 3:
Remember when I said every uni– sorry, lamedreary in Diablo 3 was aimed at Spikes? Unfortunately the Spikes don’t want them because they do less damage than the above mentioned dumpster blue. A big fat zero again.
Verdict
Diablo 3 lamedrearies are aimed at Spike players at the intentional expense of Johnny and Timmy (and still manage to fail because they are too weak). Therefore buffing them won’t achieve anything unless they become the best items in the game or Spike will still ignore them, and won’t make them any more tactically interesting or bigger so the Johnny and Spike aren’t satisfied either.
This may explain why people NOW claim uniques should be the best, despite advocating the opposite in the past 11.5 years. Only the Spikes want them to be literally the best – the Johnnies and Timmies simply don’t care anymore and have given up on the game after the Great Death Blossom Disillusion and the Why Is My Hero So Weak Disillusion respectively. Their dreams crushed, all that is left is normal difficulty and the rose coloured binoculars pointed at Guild Wars 2. And of course Teemo in your ranked game. Thanks, Blizzard.
So there’s Laz’s semi-professional opinion. Hard to argue with his conclusions, as far as I can see. What do you guys think? Is he right? Can Blizzard resuscitate the legendary and set items in their game, and what could they have been thinking, launching with an array of green and orange items that so many fans realized at a glance were underpowered and uninteresting?
It's an interesting read. You could consider making another thread with this as the lead article. I think discussing itemization in D2 and D3 merits it's own separate conversation in depth.
Comments
Diablo 3 is randomly generated. The dungeon layouts, the map events and obviously mobs, their abilities and their placement.
What do you mean by not randomized? Like the main story arc? Wasn't aware that anyone wanted that.
Playing: Nothing
Looking forward to: Nothing
Well, I guess it's your word against science then. :P Because neurology and primatology tell us the human brain works very much like that. There are well-known experiments that show this. It's actually amazing stuff. I'd recommend reading some Robert Sapolsky, for one (or maybe listening to him, he's funny!)
Here's something else the primatologists / neurologists have shown us that has implications on gaming - and this is even more interesting:
When in such experiments the probability of the subject getting rewarded for the routine is less predictable (thus less than 100%), the subject gets a "secondary dopamine surge". Normally (on a 100% reward rate) the subject only gets a surge once the cue comes in (as shown in the linked blog article).
On a less predictable reward rate, something else hapens: The subject gets the first surge when the cue comes in, and a second one when he presses the lever. And the second one keeps rising until the point the reward is expected. Uncertainty in rewarding makes the whole thing more thrilling, apparently. :P
Something that's even more telling: When you decrease the probabilty of reward to less than 50%, the surge's potency decreases. This is perhaps to be expected. Hey, nobody likes being given the run-around! :P
But what's odder, to me, is that the surge's potency also decreases when you increase the reward rate!
Says Sapolsky:
"Thus, the greatest amount of dopamine is released under the circumstance where there is some expectation of reward, but with the greatest degree of unpredictability. This strikes me as a neurobiological explanation for why intermittent reinforcement is the most effective reinforcement regime."
Oh, but that's simple, zym. You just wire 'em up and and measure the activity! I'm sure you'll come up with more of a positive surge on loot drops vs. in-game-spanking!
To me the first Diablo was a lot more addictive, I killed 2 mice and played it on and off for a year. I never liked D2 as much and tired after a month.
To me D2 and D3 seems about as addictive but that is my personal opinion, I kinda like killing stuff more than I like looting and I know that might not be so common.
Played through once, did the first 2 acts at the second difficulty then stopped entirely. Really wish I didn't buy it and that I still had my $60 bucks...
The AH definitely had a big impact on the enjoyment of the game. D2 was an online casino with a cool theme. A big part of the thrill was the chance of finding that item that everyone wanted but didn't have. Having the gold, and even worse cash, AHs completely neuter that aspect of it. The AH works in games like WoW because most of the loot that matters and that makes your character more powerful binds to your character on pickup. You had to be there for the kill to have the loot.
I think years of playing WoW and other MMOs, since my D2 days, is also a big factor. A game like D3 where I'm just using 1-2 abilities over and over, and with little to no team coordination is just plain boring. I need several action bars full of skills, a coordinated party and complex boss strategies to hold my attention now, at least as far as gameplay mechanics go.
^^ This
Feel the same way...and i was a huge fan of Diablo 2.....Diablo 3 i'm login in for 2 mins or so.....so damm boring.....
I see. So, you'd be happier if all loot was removed and you just ran around in starter gear.
Sounds great. Fun.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
On the same page. The first Diablo was the game for me in the series - as well as in the genre, I guess. Never played another ARPG I really enjoyed that much.
Also, I did like the old Battle.net chat and the ear-collecting bounty hunters.
I did. And perhaps that's why I put thousands of hours on D2 instead of D1 or D3.
Simplicity is boring and bland and it surprises me that some of you prefer having little or no loot to a woundrous loot table full of possibility.
/baffled
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
What aspect fo the game do you find boring? Maybe it's not the game, it's you. As we grow older, our tastes change. If you can't enjoy the game for even 2 minutes, it's you for sure.
TLDR: Loot in D3 is boring
Brother Laz Explains What’s Wrong with Diablo III’s Legendaries
Posted 5 June 2012 by Flux
Brother Laz created the Median XL mod, and while updating it over the years he created thousands of unique and set items, and was always in direct contact with the players, learning exactly what they liked and didn’t like, and used and didn’t use. Laz is also an analytical and clever guy, and writes entertaining columns, so long as you like sarcasm and aren’t the one he’s pointing his barbs at.
True to my hopes, Laz had plenty of observations on where the Diablo III legendaries went wrong, and he’s got a whole three-category ranking system for types of unique items and the players that they appeal to. By his measurement, Diablo III’s only hit one of those types. I’m overcomplicating things in this summary, so check out the following quote and then click through to read the whole article. I guarantee it will give you a new way to think about unique items and will make very clear why they are so lackluster, as currently presented in Diablo III.
Click through for the full guest article, which includes illustrative items of all three types, plus fix-it proscriptions for Diablo III going forward.
So there’s Laz’s semi-professional opinion. Hard to argue with his conclusions, as far as I can see. What do you guys think? Is he right? Can Blizzard resuscitate the legendary and set items in their game, and what could they have been thinking, launching with an array of green and orange items that so many fans realized at a glance were underpowered and uninteresting?
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
You have it backwards. It's the loot in D3 that is useless and extremely difficult to acquire the best loot. The legendaries alone are laughable.
The idea that a more "complex" loot system is cumbersome is really... just plain sad. You're going to love the future of gaming, you'll get more of less. Perfect.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
"Back to ze rootz" is a valid thing, d3 is probably closer to d1 than it was to d2, however i do think, that this game would be a let-down if it would be released instead of d2, the whole game is complexity for the sake of complexity, imo.
Crafting pages, tomes and books for no reason, since they have a quite generous drop rate.
Stats with meaningles secondary effects (1 resist for 10 int, really?
) just so that every class can have a primary one.
Affixes like +(30-110)str +(30-110)vit as one prefix just for the sake of making loot more random.
Constant barrage of lore and quest stuff so that the player feels entertained after dying 10 times on invulnerable jumping teleporting mobs.
Invulnerable jumping teleporting mobs, because a immersive environment and fun skill and resource system is OBVIOUSLY not enough.
Dont want me get started on the skill and resource system
And so on, you get the point.
Flame on!
Right. Not sure why you brought up loot in the first place, you don't care for it. "Just an axe", well there ya go, on your way then.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
Really difficult to say. I seriously have no idea how to measure that.
I am personally sick of DII but couldn't find a replacement for it. DIII is a satisfactory replacement for me. But I never played DII fanatically non-stop, and I do not play DIII fanatically, either.
i said hardly any randomization, that means, side quests, dungeons, surface events. I like most of the older players remember exactly what D2 was like, there was so much to do it was optional to do the main questline. That's what's missing from D3. TONS of content is missing which makes the game boring. That's why it doesn't have replayability. People definitely wanted that, they wanted an updated version of D2.
This is why most won't go past inferno, and it's the reason why there are tons of compaints about this game scattered across the web (oh trust me it's not just the general malaise found on this site this time).
The world design and the quests are on rails. There is handholding and you cant start a game and go anywhere. Like first going to act1 and then to act3. When you are making a game you are really restarting a quest. That type of quest focus/dependence is very boring and bad for a ARPG. Its not very fun to listen to the same voice overs and talk to the same npc:s a million times when trying to farm... I want to kill millions of monsters, including mini bosses and the act boss, without having to think about story, talking to npc:s or doing a quest line. Story and quests are fun the first time. After that it becomes very annoying.
I don't think it's less addictive. Most people I know who played Diablo 2 only played through it once on Normal, delved maybe a little into another class, then quit.
I'd say Diablo 2 was much more addictive. There's no simple answer to why either.
D2 just offers much more. The quests are much better (hi Zultun Kulle blood/brain etc). Enemies are less annoying to play against (hi act3 firebirds, act2 flies). The zones themselves are better designed. I didn't feel pissed off having to play them again as I do now. For example act3 quest to kill 3 ballistas/trebuchet and the mobs you have to fight in this quest make me just overall pissed off. Trololoo i has a poison hand that is a homing missile and you can't ever escape.... cool stuff Blizz.
Playing D2 in hardcore also was much more stabilized. Now in D3 you can easily die to a single pack of champs if you don't run and WP and just make a new game. Sure it's challenging, but I wouldn't say it's good design. Limiting what certain mobs can get as special mobs would help greatly... teleporting mortar molten flies for example in act 2 shouldn't be allowed to exist. Changes should be made to certain mobs to make them less obnoxious.
I just died in HC with my 49 monk, because I was dumb, but seriously there needs to be adjustments made to some special mobs. Example, Soul Lasher - Horde Fast... you die like instantly when they lick you with those amounts. It's stupid, just like MULTIPLE SHOT LIGHTNING ENHANCED CONVICTION AURA did in D2... that was never ever fixed either... hope Blizz can see wtf is going on here.
Playing HC is the only way to even enjoy this game, unless some specific changes are made, I won't bother playing it after my next char dies to similar shenanigans.
Sadly, those who bravely venture to play HC are probably out of Blizzard's caring limit as they don't contribute to RMAH.
I am really not concerned if D3 is less addictive than D2. What if it is?
I have already played it for a month .. and probably will play more (since i have not finished Inferno, and there are alts to level up). It is worth every penny i pay for .. and that i get it from the WOW annual pass.
It is a good fun game. If it is less addictive than D2 .. so what?
StayBlind hits the nail on the head with his comments, D3 is so boring compared to D2.
HuH, you Zymurgeist must be having a laugh with us all, for Kripp was the first to beat the game that everyone knows off. Unless you mean you beat it in LittleGirl Core but that does not matter in the least for that mode is to learn the game.
HardCore till i Die!.
Play hardcore then. I don't even understand why you call this "easy enough" as a softie. Have fun with that in HC auction house..it might not be that easy enough, and you might actually need to learn to play.
I mean sure its easy with your garbage dps only spec and gear, chain die and kill mobs.... OMG ITS EASY GAME? Play like the men do and then talk.
Trying to say you play games for fun means nothing if you are willing to play D3 as a softie. It's fun to die all the time and be meaningless? It's awesome to have no worry about your character? It's way too spreadsheety to actually try to not die? IMO if anyone likes D3 as a softie, they're cowards that have no will to learn.
Yeah, you're right.
As consumers, we shouldn't concern ourselves with such trivial things as product quality, value and longevity.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
It's an interesting read. You could consider making another thread with this as the lead article. I think discussing itemization in D2 and D3 merits it's own separate conversation in depth.
Thanks for posting this.