› ›

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Sign In Register

Quick Links

WvWvW vs RvR

Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Member RarePosts: 9,686
in Guild Wars 2

Maybe its just me, but so far the biggest difference between WvWvW and RvR in DAoC is the fact that in RvR the keeps (targets) where much further appart, the RvR world also now feels like it was much bigger.

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

«1

Comments

  • QuenchsterQuenchster Member Posts: 450
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    Maybe its just me, but so far the biggest difference between WvWvW and RvR in DAoC is the fact that in RvR the keeps (targets) where much further appart, the RvR world also now feels like it was much bigger.

    I know of three perks to smaller maps:

    1. If WvW were any larger then some people would go mad from walking so much. When nobody holds a keep that is upgraded to people to teleport to them from the map, it is up to the people who cast can sprints to help quickly push people back to where the action is.
    2. A smaller map means it is much easier to bump into the other enemy teams.
    3. A handful of bases were close enough to actually have trebuchet wars from within walls! Those were fun when I witnessed them in beta. It is hard for a group to take both forts at once, because of how reinforcements sometimes arrive to aid the other fort after being alarmed. Plagued cow corpses and fireballs go flying.
     
     
    Edit: I was never really introduced into DAoC and never played it, so I'm a bit curious how supplies worked. Were there caravans that could be attacked and defended? That was a major part of WvW when I experienced it. The guild I was in held off a keep for hours, but it wouldn't have done it without maintaining our supplylines. This kind of ties into #1 too. Supplylines can take awhile to escort in WvW. The caravans go at walking pace to give enemies a chance to slaughter them.
  • SatariousSatarious Member UncommonPosts: 1,073
    Originally posted by Quenchster
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    Maybe its just me, but so far the biggest difference between WvWvW and RvR in DAoC is the fact that in RvR the keeps (targets) where much further appart, the RvR world also now feels like it was much bigger.

    I know of three perks to smaller maps:

    1. If WvW were any larger then some people would go mad from walking so much. When nobody holds a keep that is upgraded to people to teleport to them from the map, it is up to the people who cast can sprints to help quickly push people back to where the action is.
    2. A smaller map means it is much easier to bump into the other enemy teams.
    3. A handful of bases were close enough to actually have trebuchet wars from within walls! Those were fun when I witnessed them in beta. It is hard for a group to take both forts at once, because of how reinforcements sometimes arrive to aid the other fort after being alarmed. Plagued cow corpses and fireballs go flying.
     
     
    Edit: I was never really introduced into DAoC and never played it, so I'm a bit curious how supplies worked. Were there caravans that could be attacked and defended? That was a major part of WvW when I experienced it. The guild I was in held off a keep for hours, but it wouldn't have done it without maintaining our supplylines. This kind of ties into #1 too. Supplylines can take awhile to escort in WvW. The caravans go at walking pace to give enemies a chance to slaughter them.

    Daoc didn't have a concept of "supplies".  That's a new one with Guild Wars 2.  What it did have were relics in a mega keep that was hard to take and Darkness Falls (a dungeon that was open only to the faction with the most keeps).  The best part of Darkness Falls was the moment it fell to another realm... a huge flood of that realm would come rushing in to slaughter all those who remained from the previous occupants.   Hopefully, Guild Wars 2 implements something similar.

  • ComfyChairComfyChair Member Posts: 758

    The maps are already pretty 'empty' in GW2 if you avoid the larger zergs, even when at population cap. So i think they made them about the right kind of size. You want the room for mavouvering, but you don't want so much room you never see anyone, but on the flip side you dont want to run into enemies every 5 seconds.

    There are some changes over RvR too though :P

  • ShakyMoShakyMo Member CommonPosts: 7,207
    Surely the biggest difference is real rivalry. In one game you face off against 2 rival factions having bonded with your own faction through a long leveling process. You get to have nemesises and good enemies. In the other you face some different set of random unnamed dudes every 2 weeks.

    Well that and and the scale of and importance of rvr.
  • SaydienSaydien Member Posts: 266

    I would definitely wish for bigger maps. For me the appeal in DAoC RVR was that you always had the choice between either fighting where the major crowd fought (the usual conflict points like the walls or a current siege) OR you could do your own thing, be sneaky and attempt a raid on another keep all alone. GW2 WvWvW is extremely disappointing for me because it highly encourages zerging and whatever you do is usually both predictable and very quickly visible on the map. With the current strength of guards you need quite some people to effectively and quickly make a successful raid.

    I might not have completely grasped just how this claiming and upgrading of spots might impact WvWvW in GW2 but based on the knowledge that you see conflicts on the map and therefore know at all times where the conflict currently is going on the appeal of potentially being sneaky with only the guild that just captured the keep you're raiding knowing that you're knocking on their doors just isn't there.

    It is a matter of taste what you prefer when it comes to size but for me that is just yet another point where WvWvW is inferior compared to RvR. Your tactical and strategical possibilities there are smaller. That might become especially disappointing if there actually will be something like Darkness Falls eventually.

  • QuenchsterQuenchster Member Posts: 450
    Originally posted by Satarious
    Originally posted by Quenchster
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    Maybe its just me, but so far the biggest difference between WvWvW and RvR in DAoC is the fact that in RvR the keeps (targets) where much further appart, the RvR world also now feels like it was much bigger.

    I know of three perks to smaller maps:

    1. If WvW were any larger then some people would go mad from walking so much. When nobody holds a keep that is upgraded to people to teleport to them from the map, it is up to the people who cast can sprints to help quickly push people back to where the action is.
    2. A smaller map means it is much easier to bump into the other enemy teams.
    3. A handful of bases were close enough to actually have trebuchet wars from within walls! Those were fun when I witnessed them in beta. It is hard for a group to take both forts at once, because of how reinforcements sometimes arrive to aid the other fort after being alarmed. Plagued cow corpses and fireballs go flying.
     
     
    Edit: I was never really introduced into DAoC and never played it, so I'm a bit curious how supplies worked. Were there caravans that could be attacked and defended? That was a major part of WvW when I experienced it. The guild I was in held off a keep for hours, but it wouldn't have done it without maintaining our supplylines. This kind of ties into #1 too. Supplylines can take awhile to escort in WvW. The caravans go at walking pace to give enemies a chance to slaughter them.

    Daoc didn't have a concept of "supplies".  That's a new one with Guild Wars 2.  What it did have were relics in a mega keep that was hard to take and Darkness Falls (a dungeon that was open only to the faction with the most keeps).  The best part of Darkness Falls was the moment it fell to another realm... a huge flood of that realm would come rushing in to slaughter all those who remained from the previous occupants.   Hopefully, Guild Wars 2 implements something similar.

    GW2 does have those. I think they were called power orbs. They only appear on three maps that give the home team of that map an advantage, so they can be hard to steal from their main platforms. My guild held onto one from green team and played alamo with it in this keep to protect it from red team.

     

    image

    The red team snipped our supplylines multiple times and we were running low. We had only about 30 supplies left at one point and needed caravans to help us, so a squad of players went to take back a supply camp. Later on we actually had to build siege weapons within the supply camp to blast away reds and started escorting the dolyaks across the field because we needed to buy keep upgrades. We needed to repair walls very bad, because they pounded us with trebuchets. We were the last remaining blue keep on the green map and red team went bezerk trying to get that orb.

  • SaxonbladeSaxonblade Member Posts: 275
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Surely the biggest difference is real rivalry. In one game you face off against 2 rival factions having bonded with your own faction through a long leveling process. You get to have nemesises and good enemies. In the other you face some different set of random unnamed dudes every 2 weeks.

    Well that and and the scale of and importance of rvr.

    I have to agree 100% here, I miss those old rivalries from DAOC and unless you played the game you have no idea of how deep they ran.

    image

  • QuenchsterQuenchster Member Posts: 450
    Originally posted by Saxonblade
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Surely the biggest difference is real rivalry. In one game you face off against 2 rival factions having bonded with your own faction through a long leveling process. You get to have nemesises and good enemies. In the other you face some different set of random unnamed dudes every 2 weeks.

    Well that and and the scale of and importance of rvr.

    I have to agree 100% here, I miss those old rivalries from DAOC and unless you played the game you have no idea of how deep they ran.

    I agree too. In GW2 they have guild insignias on the banners of forts that are owned by guilds, but you can't really tell who is of that guild that well. I think I saw a way to put an insignia on our chest, but I didn't figure out how this beta and I don't know if it will be enough without a full name of the guild out for the enemy to talk about.

  • khamul787khamul787 Member UncommonPosts: 193
    Originally posted by Quenchster
    Originally posted by Saxonblade
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Surely the biggest difference is real rivalry. In one game you face off against 2 rival factions having bonded with your own faction through a long leveling process. You get to have nemesises and good enemies. In the other you face some different set of random unnamed dudes every 2 weeks.

    Well that and and the scale of and importance of rvr.

    I have to agree 100% here, I miss those old rivalries from DAOC and unless you played the game you have no idea of how deep they ran.

    I agree too. In GW2 they have guild insignias on the banners of forts that are owned by guilds, but you can't really tell who is of that guild that well. I think I saw a way to put an insignia on our chest, but I didn't figure out how this beta and I don't know if it will be enough without a full name of the guild out for the enemy to talk about.

    I think the guild rivalry is plenty, and the bi-weekly server rotation solves a lot of the eternal problems DAOC had with team imbalances.

    On another note, yes there is guild armor. You upgrade your guild and hire a guild armorer who puts your guild insignia on your armor. Sounds pretty cool to me. Hopefully it's obvious enough for other to see.

    image

  • ThrashbargThrashbarg Member Posts: 125

    People keep saying things about WvW encouraging zergs. I don't think that will be a big problem within a short time after release. Right now, the most experienced players only have a few days experience at most. Zergs are actually pretty worthless in WvW, against anyone playing strategically anyway.

    Faction rivalries will be replaced by server rivalries, and hopefully the random matchup system will discourage people jumping to one dominant server (as tends to happen in most games).

    image

  • cooper85cooper85 Member Posts: 386
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    Maybe its just me, but so far the biggest difference between WvWvW and RvR in DAoC is the fact that in RvR the keeps (targets) where much further appart, the RvR world also now feels like it was much bigger.

    And wasn't a situation of 3 waring factions coming together for RvR? 

  • SiphaedSiphaed Member RarePosts: 1,114
    Originally posted by Saydien

    I would definitely wish for bigger maps. For me the appeal in DAoC RVR was that you always had the choice between either fighting where the major crowd fought (the usual conflict points like the walls or a current siege) OR you could do your own thing, be sneaky and attempt a raid on another keep all alone. GW2 WvWvW is extremely disappointing for me because it highly encourages zerging and whatever you do is usually both predictable and very quickly visible on the map. With the current strength of guards you need quite some people to effectively and quickly make a successful raid.

    I might not have completely grasped just how this claiming and upgrading of spots might impact WvWvW in GW2 but based on the knowledge that you see conflicts on the map and therefore know at all times where the conflict currently is going on the appeal of potentially being sneaky with only the guild that just captured the keep you're raiding knowing that you're knocking on their doors just isn't there.

    It is a matter of taste what you prefer when it comes to size but for me that is just yet another point where WvWvW is inferior compared to RvR. Your tactical and strategical possibilities there are smaller. That might become especially disappointing if there actually will be something like Darkness Falls eventually.

    Not sure what "tactics" you mention, but after watching videos of DAoC, I see nothing but zerging in very empty fields (mind you, old game so dated graphics) and then zering castles.   There's nothing "special" about DAoC other than that people have nestalgic flavor for it being their first MMO or something.  This is no different than those that think that WoW is the Holy Grail just because it was their first too.

     

    In Guild Wars 2, thus far the WvWvW is very tactical.   Yes, upgrades and claiming takes HUGE impact in it for the bonuses you get from holding so many (plus if your World holds one of the Orbs [or all of them] in the outter worlds).  The upgrades give you things like more guards, better defensive siege items, more durable walls and gates, teleport locations, and vendors.

     

    Gates aren't the only things that fall, as walls crumble as well. They've in fact made a change between the BWE's because in BWE#1 we were piling up 2-6 rams against a wall and destroying them like they were twigs.  In the BWE#2, Ram's can now only be used on doors (says in the description as well)  But, our team still "backdoored" enemies at keeps by splitting our army to halves up front doing ram runs on the door and then halves in back using catapults on their wall.  This split their defenses and weakened their position, causing both groups to push through and finish them. 

     

    And the siege weapons are very accurate to their distance, rate of fire, accuracy, and effectiveness.  Having trebs fire back and forth from one fort to another really brought the game alive as armies from each side fought in the midfields.  The poisoned cows fogging up eveything was a nice touch. 

     

    As for the "alerts" system that's complained about:  it's manipulation time!  See, we sent out a few Mesmers who had their portal abilities to other keeps to hit them and their guards to flag that attack alert.   At one point there was even a band of 3 people that set up a catapult that was hitting the door of a random keep 1/2 way across the map.  This confused the enemy and made them go from place to place.  Without actual eyes to go by, they assumed our army was in two placed.  It slow their movement to intercept the true attack.


  • Unknown
    Originally posted by Siphaed

    Not sure what "tactics" you mention, but after watching videos of DAoC, I see nothing but zerging in very empty fields (mind you, old game so dated graphics) and then zering castles.   There's nothing "special" about DAoC other than that people have nestalgic flavor for it being their first MMO or something.  This is no different than those that think that WoW is the Holy Grail just because it was their first too.

    There were plenty of tactics in DAoC, it wasn't all zergs.  Not saying RvR was better than WvWvW (I haven't had the pleasure of trying it yet), but don't think when people played DAoC that all they did was run around as a mindless zerg.  It's not like people were stupid and had no sense of strategy back in DAoC's day.

  • kramtkramt Member Posts: 86
    Originally posted by Saydien

    I would definitely wish for bigger maps. For me the appeal in DAoC RVR was that you always had the choice between either fighting where the major crowd fought (the usual conflict points like the walls or a current siege) OR you could do your own thing, be sneaky and attempt a raid on another keep all alone. GW2 WvWvW is extremely disappointing for me because it highly encourages zerging and whatever you do is usually both predictable and very quickly visible on the map. With the current strength of guards you need quite some people to effectively and quickly make a successful raid.

    The zerging mentality isn't going to work in WvW as Team Legay of Crystal Desert already proven that in the recent BWE where it started when Darkhaven took over half of the maps zerging their way through it. Team Legacy somehow managed to divide their group into ten smaller groups to spread all across the maps capturing points one after another avoiding large army conflict as possble. By doing this, they slowly took the other servers' captured points and after a while majority of Darkhaven and the other server left which TL captured the remaining points in the maps. Those new players doing WvW will always say zerging is the only way but you have to take note that winning is dependent on the number of capture points you have controlled

  • JetrpgJetrpg Member UncommonPosts: 2,347
    Originally posted by kramt
    Originally posted by Saydien

    I would definitely wish for bigger maps. For me the appeal in DAoC RVR was that you always had the choice between either fighting where the major crowd fought (the usual conflict points like the walls or a current siege) OR you could do your own thing, be sneaky and attempt a raid on another keep all alone. GW2 WvWvW is extremely disappointing for me because it highly encourages zerging and whatever you do is usually both predictable and very quickly visible on the map. With the current strength of guards you need quite some people to effectively and quickly make a successful raid.

    The zerging mentality isn't going to work in WvW as Team Legay of Crystal Desert already proven that in the recent BWE where it started when Darkhaven took over half of the maps zerging their way through it. Team Legacy somehow managed to divide their group into ten smaller groups to spread all across the maps capturing points one after another avoiding large army conflict as possble. By doing this, they slowly took the other servers' captured points and after a while majority of Darkhaven and the other server left which TL captured the remaining points in the maps. Those new players doing WvW will always say zerging is the only way but you have to take note that winning is dependent on the number of capture points you have controlled

    The seige weapons can help vs zerg very well in GW2.. was suprized.

    "Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine

  • SiphaedSiphaed Member RarePosts: 1,114

    There is one issue with Zergs in that they can overcome the supply lines and continuously throw bodies at the walls and doors of a Keep.  This would choke the Keep from those lines and prevent it from being able to repair it's walls and doors.  This happens and eventually the keep will fall.  See, holding them off by killing them slowly, is still allowing them to eventually make progress.


  • CrowkillCrowkill Member Posts: 8
    Originally posted by Siphaed
    Originally posted by Saydien

    I would definitely wish for bigger maps. For me the appeal in DAoC RVR was that you always had the choice between either fighting where the major crowd fought (the usual conflict points like the walls or a current siege) OR you could do your own thing, be sneaky and attempt a raid on another keep all alone. GW2 WvWvW is extremely disappointing for me because it highly encourages zerging and whatever you do is usually both predictable and very quickly visible on the map. With the current strength of guards you need quite some people to effectively and quickly make a successful raid.

    I might not have completely grasped just how this claiming and upgrading of spots might impact WvWvW in GW2 but based on the knowledge that you see conflicts on the map and therefore know at all times where the conflict currently is going on the appeal of potentially being sneaky with only the guild that just captured the keep you're raiding knowing that you're knocking on their doors just isn't there.

    It is a matter of taste what you prefer when it comes to size but for me that is just yet another point where WvWvW is inferior compared to RvR. Your tactical and strategical possibilities there are smaller. That might become especially disappointing if there actually will be something like Darkness Falls eventually.

    Not sure what "tactics" you mention, but after watching videos of DAoC, I see nothing but zerging in very empty fields (mind you, old game so dated graphics) and then zering castles.   There's nothing "special" about DAoC other than that people have nestalgic flavor for it being their first MMO or something.  This is no different than those that think that WoW is the Holy Grail just because it was their first too.

     

    In Guild Wars 2, thus far the WvWvW is very tactical.   Yes, upgrades and claiming takes HUGE impact in it for the bonuses you get from holding so many (plus if your World holds one of the Orbs [or all of them] in the outter worlds).  The upgrades give you things like more guards, better defensive siege items, more durable walls and gates, teleport locations, and vendors.

     

    Gates aren't the only things that fall, as walls crumble as well. They've in fact made a change between the BWE's because in BWE#1 we were piling up 2-6 rams against a wall and destroying them like they were twigs.  In the BWE#2, Ram's can now only be used on doors (says in the description as well)  But, our team still "backdoored" enemies at keeps by splitting our army to halves up front doing ram runs on the door and then halves in back using catapults on their wall.  This split their defenses and weakened their position, causing both groups to push through and finish them. 

     

    And the siege weapons are very accurate to their distance, rate of fire, accuracy, and effectiveness.  Having trebs fire back and forth from one fort to another really brought the game alive as armies from each side fought in the midfields.  The poisoned cows fogging up eveything was a nice touch. 

     

    As for the "alerts" system that's complained about:  it's manipulation time!  See, we sent out a few Mesmers who had their portal abilities to other keeps to hit them and their guards to flag that attack alert.   At one point there was even a band of 3 people that set up a catapult that was hitting the door of a random keep 1/2 way across the map.  This confused the enemy and made them go from place to place.  Without actual eyes to go by, they assumed our army was in two placed.  It slow their movement to intercept the true attack.

    Except in DAoC You CAN'T blindly zerg, you literally can't lol. if you have every played the game you know uncontrolled zergs are easy to destroy since there are AoE CC such as mezz, root, stuns, snares, that last atleast 15 seconds at lvl 50. I've seen a good 2 fgs destroy 75 people. In DAoC every Battlegroup, not zerg, always has a leader and is controlled either by battlegroup chat or in vent. Funny thing is you need a "zerg" just to have a shot a relic in DAoC or to take a main keep. Not to mention field battles rarely happen in DAoC since each realm is trying to out maneuver each other so they have a chance of even sieging an enemy castle. You have to take towers to cut ports to main keeps. Distractions and false assaults to lure out the defenders and to strike fast by setting up seige towers, a ram, and send climbers up the wall to secure the oil. These are even minor examples of the type of tactics that happen in DAoC. lol in just a single keep siege... i won't even get into a relic raid.

    Guild wars requires tactics but the maps aren't large enought for two teams to try and out maneuver each other. Not even going to try with all three worlds fighting in one area. The maps are so small that a large force can easily get from one sid eof the map to the other before the enemy even puts a scratch on the door of a tower. It becomes a game of numbers with maps this small.

    Guild wars is sorely lacking is Crowd control in my opinion. I'm talking about serious crowd control. Not  this 1 second daze or stuns. they need to give classes aoe roots, mezz, stun, something that can be used by an out numbered team to fight enemy easier.

  • ThrashbargThrashbarg Member Posts: 125
    Originally posted by Crowkill
    Guild wars is sorely lacking is Crowd control in my opinion. I'm talking about serious crowd control. Not  this 1 second daze or stuns. they need to give classes aoe roots, mezz, stun, something that can be used by an out numbered team to fight enemy easier.

    The developers have stated there will be no long duration CC. 

    Cannons, arrow carts and balistas all have aoe CC, and provide the "something" outnumbered players can use to their advantage.

     

    image

  • MattVidMattVid Member Posts: 399

    I would honestly like to see more wieght put on WvWvW than there currently is. DAoC and WAR had much more rewards and reasons to do it. More rewards. Special content. Dungeons. Raids. Gear. Customizations. Titles. There are tons of things they could do to encourage World PvP and make it more enticing. Right now, it just doesn't feel all that important, though I do enjoy doing it a lot.

  • ThrashbargThrashbarg Member Posts: 125

    You won't get unbalanced gear as a reward, or titles, but there are rewards. We haven't seen much of them yet, being beta and resetting WvW every day. There are all kinds of bonuses for the whole server which are based on how well the server is doing overall, harvesting, crafting, exp, stat bonuses, etc. There are also special gear (skins) that can be acquired through the medals which drop in WvW only (for the prestige factor, like titles).

    I'm gonna wait till I see what is really in game before I start demanding more shinies.

    image

  • NightvergeNightverge Member Posts: 211
    Originally posted by MattVid

    I would honestly like to see more wieght put on WvWvW than there currently is. DAoC and WAR had much more rewards and reasons to do it. More rewards. Special content. Dungeons. Raids. Gear. Customizations. Titles. There are tons of things they could do to encourage World PvP and make it more enticing. Right now, it just doesn't feel all that important, though I do enjoy doing it a lot.

         Almost all of those things are either in already or have been stated to be in at launch. For obvious reasons they are withholding titles during beta. Nobody wants to get a title for a character that is going to get wiped in a few months.

         There are special dungeons and gear and customization already. Most of the importance you aren't going to see in beta. You won't see any rivalry's in beta either. It takes time and experience for rivalries to come into play (directing that at some of the previous comments). 

         Its not supposed to be of the utmost importance though either. Its there as an alternative if you don't want to PvE. Just as PvE is there as an alternative to WvWvW and has no real outstanding perks to doing it other than having some fun. You get gear, experience, money, karma, materials, everything in both WvWvW and PvE. There isn't really supposed to be any incentive to choose one over the other besides however you may feel at the moment. That's the beauty of it really. Been messing around in the world for a while? take a trip in the mists and capture some keeps and towers or do some of the WvWvW special dungeons or whatever you want.

         If they added any special incentive to play WvWvW it would offset the balance between the two modes of play. Everyone would be flocking to WvWvW and PvE would be a ghost town. Same deal for WvWvW if PvE had some huge incentive to play it.

    http://www.wix.com/guardiansofthegarter/home image

  • OldManFunkOldManFunk Member Posts: 894

    I've got to say that GW2's WvW is much better than DAoC's RvR ever was. Don't get me wrong, DAoC was amazing for its time... but let's be real. GW2 takes a good idea to the next level. I can't wait to see how WvW evolves over the next couple years.

  • Comcast8888Comcast8888 Member UncommonPosts: 10

    GW2 WvW landscape > Daoc

    Daoc Keep design > GW2

    Daoc Relic Raid > GW2's Orbs of Power

     

  • SetzerSetzer Member UncommonPosts: 261
    Originally posted by Comcast8888

    GW2 WvW landscape > Daoc

    Daoc Keep design > GW2

    Daoc Relic Raid > GW2's Orbs of Power

     

    I agree except the keep design. I like GW2's keep design better.

  • DeldorDeldor Member UncommonPosts: 51
    Originally posted by Rhoklaw

    This is as true in GW2 as it was in DAoC. Actually, it's probably true in just about any game. In both GW2 and DAoC however, I've seen a single group of players, take out entire zergs unexpentantly. In fact, in GW2, it would probably only take one group of elementalists to sneak in from behind to wipe out an entire zerg of any size. Multiple meteor showers FTW and it has happened, so this will make taking keeps that much harder.

    Or you could set up some siege engines, they are basically built instantly if you have the supply. Arrow karts wreak havoc to zergs.

Sign In or Register to comment.