Looking for an old DAOC player's point of view.

Pravius · June 2012

Any of us who used to play DAOC can easily argue that it was and could possibly still be the best PvP Mmorpg ever made. I unfortunately have not had the chance to beta test Guid Wars 2 so my mind is completely open. Like many old retired Daoc players I have been bouncing from MMO to MMO to try to rekindle that experience of old school DAOC, before New frontier's and Trials of Atlantis (I was on the fortunate end of ToA due to having no life, but still think it helped kill the game).

So, I come to this forum to ask from an old school DAOC player's perspective how does this PvP stack up against one of the best PvP systems ever? I understand this is not DAOC, and totally expect some major differences, could this game be a spiritual successor to DAOC, at all?

MMOExposed · June 2012

Originally posted by Pravius
Any of us who used to play DAOC can easily argue that it was and could possibly still be the best PvP Mmorpg ever made. I unfortunately have not had the chance to beta test Guid Wars 2 so my mind is completely open. Like many old retired Daoc players I have been bouncing from MMO to MMO to try to rekindle that experience of old school DAOC, before New frontier's and Trials of Atlantis (I was on the fortunate end of ToA due to having no life, but still think it helped kill the game).

So, I come to this forum to ask from an old school DAOC player's perspective how does this PvP stack up against one of the best PvP systems ever? I understand this is not DAOC, and totally expect some major differences, could this game be a spiritual successor to DAOC, at all?

its all in your mind. nothing will ever live up to what your mind considers the best PvP ever made...

sad to say. yes. but thats the reality.

the WvW is fun during peak times. But as numbers go down, the gameplay wont make up for it.

think

BF3 (PC) vs (PS360)

both have super huge maps to PvP on, but the PC version has 64 players, while the PS360 version only has 24.

which is more fun?

this will be an issue that Anet will face when it comes to WvW. lets just hope they have addressed this unforseen issue in advance.

Unknown · June 2012

WvW is considerably better than WAR's RvR.

I think you could say its the spiritual successor, yes. But its not a clone. Yes there are relics(orbs) you can take from your enemy keeps that give your realm bonuses. Yes there is a dungeon-ish area you can only enter if you own certain keeps. Yes one of Anet's devs actually worked on Darkness Falls.

But Anet has changed things like layout and amount of space and various other things. They have done these things for reasons too. I doubt there will be nearly as much open roaming of say 10 v 10 setups. WvW is very much centered around the Keeps and the flow of Supply. Space is important for reinforcement etc. but there are not huge tracts of empty land to roam around per se.

There is also the issue of the 2 week cycle of changing opposing servers etc.

There are a number of design decisions that are meant to address various things. Many of which existed in DAOC. I would certainly say its a spiritual successor but that doesn't mean you will think its as good or better than DAOC.

I think so. I think DAOC had a number of issues and I think Anet has come up with reasonable ways to address those with reasonable tradeoffs. But many people won't see it that way.

Lord.Bachus · June 2012

Its different but stil the same in essence.

Some things are missing, but there are some other things added , which gives it a somewhat frsh feeling. For everyone that missed the bigdays of DAoC PvP, it should be enough to give them that same awesome feeling we had with DAoC

drel · June 2012

WvWvW reminds me so much of the mega battles we had in DAoC! And I haven't seen GW2 crash as did DAoC with those massive battles.

I truely enjoy playing GW2 as much as I did DAoC. And I haven't found it as grindy as DAoC could be when you tried to level.

Leveling in GW2 is much easier and fun!

So, give the game a try!

Ilaya · June 2012

Originally posted by drel
WvWvW reminds me so much of the mega battles we had in DAoC! And I haven't seen GW2 crash as did DAoC with those massive battles.

I truely enjoy playing GW2 as much as I did DAoC. And I haven't found it as grindy as DAoC could be when you tried to level.

Leveling in GW2 is much easier and fun!

So, give the game a try!

I highly agree on this!!

I'm an "Old Fart" EU DaoC Player from Lyonesse.

When i first time joined the WvWvW Zone i got goosebumps, honestly. I felt like first time entering Emain Macha. Sure, time has moved forward, so have games. After defeating my first Keep Lord, i felt so "re-freshed", i can not describe. The whole thing came to the Top when we fought 2 (!!!) hrs around one major Keep. From that point on, i was "lost" to GW2.

On Top, u will have so much freedom when it comes to your own loot, nearly no quests, and awesome pvp. And with PvP i mean not "root-root-stun-mezz-dead PvP". I mean real fights with awesome nice gfx. And all that without any lag. Forget things like "Capes off plz" for a relic raid. no, go in with 100+ pplz and enjoy the firework.

I would so wish that you, if you go for GW2, get also these massiv shower of goosebumps and the tiny "flashback" to old times which have past sins then.

All the best to you. All i can say for sure; GW2 is worth to go with. You will not regret it.

Ilaya

iller · June 2012

Most of the DAOC vets playing this all ended up in 1 or 2 guilds together. ...I can't recall for sure if they ended up on Sorrow's Furnace, or Crystal Desert... but if you want the largest number of responses, I'd try tracking those guilds down first since you might want to run with them if you end up purchasing this.

arrgy · June 2012

My friar kicked some serious ass in its day, especially those stupid looking Middie trolls. DAoC was the best MMO ever made, period (until the crappy expansions came out). You'll like GW2, its not anywhere nearly as fun as DAoC was.

"Who'se got the center keep?"

Melogore · June 2012

I felt that GW2 was better than DaoC. the one thng I hated was the long huge treks across land in the beginning then later seemed like I was always fighting in that cave (sorry don't remember the name.). To me it had the right amount of space. I also spent about an hour trying to take a keep which we ended up losing and got drove back to a different one which we defended for about 2 hours. then I had to log.

I cannot wait till this game ships. Only thing I wished was that there were more indiginous mobs roaming the area in PvP, as well as a few Elites that roamed the whole map to put a little money in the wench so to speak from time to time.

Saydien · June 2012

I totally disagree with the people above and state that GW2 for me is nowhere in the same direction than DAoC is despite the WvWvW system seeming rather similar. The way the maps are designed and the combat system in itself for me really GREATLY reduces the fun compared to what I had in DAoC. Though I will add that it really is a matter of taste.

I'll just name a few examples in which area for me GW2 WvWvW is way inferior compared to DAoC RvR:

1.) You pretty much can forget to run with a single group. To capture anything you really need more people than that. In the last build the NPC guards were simply too strong and actually did hurt and kill you if you didn't have the numbers for it. Definitely different than the minor annoyances the DAoC guards were.

2.) The action based combat system with the crowd control that are nothing but mere jokes further makes zerging the only viable thing. I always loved catching groups or even zergs totally unprepared with long roots or mezzes to then pull them apart despite being totally outnumbered. With CCs that only last 3+ seconds there is nothing like that in GW2 what makes such epic experiences pretty unlikely in WvWvW.

3.) Map sizes are way too small encouraging zerging EVEN FURTHER. You can run everywhere on the map in very low time and you see the fights on the map from pretty far away making everyone and their rabbit able to track you down. No way to actually be sneaky and outsmart people like it was so wonderfully possible in DAoC with the awesome big maps.

4.) The lack of meaningful healing is a pain while sieging. Risking to have people being all like "You're silly, buy loads of siege weapons and it's easy" but I do consider the siege weapon system flawed as it is. It's too easy to nuke people down from up at the wall while hitting them in exchange only works with ground target spells if they are halfway smart making it quite a pain to have any impact whatsoever as melee character without a siege weapon if you want to actually participate in the siege rather than running around waiting for supply caravans or other defenders to pop up to stop them.

5.) Back and forth and back and forth yet again. Yawn, really. Another impact of the silly crowd control system is that fights often end in silly back and forth movements of 2 lines of ranged people with often barely anyone dying except the occasional melee suicider. I can't count the times when I just wished for a crowd control system that at least is somewhat closer to DAoC to have more tactical possibilities to nail and actually end fights.

Those are only some of the major flaws I see in GW2 WvWvW compared to DAoC. I would definitely suggest trying to get into one of the BWEs before buying that game. Comparing GW2 to DAoC for me and all of my former DAoC friends has lead to mostly major disappointments.

Leucent · June 2012

I can say that DAOC Old Frontiers to me was the best pvp I have ever been a part of. WvW is a close second, but nothing has come close for me anyways of the realm pride, and utter hatred for the enemy realm. I can t see this really happening in GW2. That said the best part of GW2 for me is the WvW. Old Frontiers of DAOC, just felt epic, from Milegate fights, to really long keep battles, and the relic raids that could last for most of a day if not longer.

WvW feels alot closer to it then any game I ve played, but isn t quite there yet. Who knows, they might add stuff down the road to do that, but all in all, DAOC hands down (old frontiers) was the best pvp ever created.

Also, the different speed classes, made any trek from keep to keep, alot less painful, or the speed of the realm buff, some npc s gave out.

tiki · June 2012

I would say my favorite part of DAOC was the ability to zerg bust if you had really talented CCers in your group. I think GW2 will be lacking the ability to have talent outweigh numbers because of the shortage of CC. Besides that, GW2 has been a lot of fun and provides a lot of variety.

Valkaern · June 2012

The first 6 months of DAoC after release were some of my best gaming months without a doubt, I had such a great time and made friends that I'm still in touch with today - server community was incredibly strong (on Gallahad anyway).

I personally feel GW2 took the good, scrapped the rubbish and then fleshed out the WvW maps with fun and meaningful goals I could complete solo, duo, in a small party or a large army (holding bottlenecks, guarding / waylaying supply caravans enroute to enemy forts, completing PvE events that impact the battle, completing goals for NPC factions like ogres, causing them to march off towards our enemy, great small scale skirmishes and even plenty of 1v1s, smashing walls, attacking gates and of course defending keeps.)

I personally feel they've incorporated every aspect of DAoCs old frontiers that appealed to me and ditched the elements I disliked. If I was travelling to a battle location in DAoC and an 8 man gank group loaded in, I was pretty much dead 99.9% of the time with no chance for any back and forth or last stand. In GW2 the TTK is much more to my liking as I might even be able to take 1 down before slipping away into a safe keep or something on a good day - but the fact that I still have a very good chance to get away makes a lot of difference to me. Being dead without having any option to react is something I never enjoyed, and I've also never enjoyed wielding the power to decimate people that couldn't fight back. As a pre-blade turn ranger 1 shotting people wasn't rare, and I was all for it being tweaked. I like a bit of back and forth between players rather than instant death with no chance for a miracle turn around, I never found that to be fun.

Some DAoC fans will absolutely lament the loss of RRs and the bonuses that cause such disparity between new players and my nearly 11 year old ranger for sure, and I understand the appeal of earning those rewards, but I'd rather lose my advantage in favor of a level play field than turn new comers that stand no chance off of playing.

The bottom line, so far I've had just about every experience I ever had in DAoCs RvR and then some, commonly including positive interactions with strangers on my side and a sense of team work, but more often, less annoyingly and with the added flavor of ArenaNets little twists and additions.

How long it will remain fun for is another question, longevity is (maybe 'was' now that I have a clearer picture) my main concern, but I'm sure I'll get my £60 worth without a doubt and I'm pretty confident ArenaNet will introduce plenty of reasons for me to keep playing judging by their recent developments in response to players.

Valkaern · June 2012

Originally posted by Saydien
I totally disagree with the people above and state that GW2 for me is nowhere in the same direction than DAoC is despite the WvWvW system seeming rather similar. The way the maps are designed and the combat system in itself for me really GREATLY reduces the fun compared to what I had in DAoC. Though I will add that it really is a matter of taste.

I'll just name a few examples in which area for me GW2 WvWvW is way inferior compared to DAoC RvR:

1.) You pretty much can forget to run with a single group. To capture anything you really need more people than that. In the last build the NPC guards were simply too strong and actually did hurt and kill you if you didn't have the numbers for it. Definitely different than the minor annoyances the DAoC guards were.

2.) The action based combat system with the crowd control that are nothing but mere jokes further makes zerging the only viable thing. I always loved catching groups or even zergs totally unprepared with long roots or mezzes to then pull them apart despite being totally outnumbered. With CCs that only last 3+ seconds there is nothing like that in GW2 what makes such epic experiences pretty unlikely in WvWvW.

3.) Map sizes are way too small encouraging zerging EVEN FURTHER. You can run everywhere on the map in very low time and you see the fights on the map from pretty far away making everyone and their rabbit able to track you down. No way to actually be sneaky and outsmart people like it was so wonderfully possible in DAoC with the awesome big maps.

4.) The lack of meaningful healing is a pain while sieging. Risking to have people being all like "You're silly, buy loads of siege weapons and it's easy" but I do consider the siege weapon system flawed as it is. It's too easy to nuke people down from up at the wall while hitting them in exchange only works with ground target spells if they are halfway smart making it quite a pain to have any impact whatsoever as melee character without a siege weapon if you want to actually participate in the siege rather than running around waiting for supply caravans or other defenders to pop up to stop them.

5.) Back and forth and back and forth yet again. Yawn, really. Another impact of the silly crowd control system is that fights often end in silly back and forth movements of 2 lines of ranged people with often barely anyone dying except the occasional melee suicider. I can't count the times when I just wished for a crowd control system that at least is somewhat closer to DAoC to have more tactical possibilities to nail and actually end fights.

Those are only some of the major flaws I see in GW2 WvWvW compared to DAoC. I would definitely suggest trying to get into one of the BWEs before buying that game. Comparing GW2 to DAoC for me and all of my former DAoC friends has lead to mostly major disappointments.

I completely disagree, we spent a lot of time last BWE in a small 10 man group and we accomplished a crap load. I'd hardly call our small force of 10 a zerg. It's important to distinguish between large groups with no direction and a large force with clear goals - we were able to split off of our main force at various times in groups of 10, 6 and 2s for various goals and still contribute.

One of the most hard fought battles I remember was our large force (luckily we did have a lot of orginization so I wouldn't personally classify it as a zerg) had split into 2 groups of about 40 each, and our group was held at a crucial choke point by a much smaller group making use of location, terrain and the benefits of being within a certain distance of their fort. It felt way less chaotic and more tactical than any keep take I was ever a part of in DAoC, and that was quite a few over the years with a co-ordinated alliance. We fought over that choke point for about an hour while the other group snuck around and began destroying the keeps wall which unlike the main gate, was not visible to the enemies we were keeping busy.

I found the whole experience immensely satisfying and unlike DAoC, a lot less hit & miss in terms of having a good battle. DAoC was great, but the really good fights were few and far between in my opinion. While in WvW, I've already taken part in so many memorable battles and I've played a fraction of the time.

Unknown · June 2012

Originally posted by Saydien
I totally disagree with the people above and state that GW2 for me is nowhere in the same direction than DAoC is despite the WvWvW system seeming rather similar. The way the maps are designed and the combat system in itself for me really GREATLY reduces the fun compared to what I had in DAoC. Though I will add that it really is a matter of taste.

I'll just name a few examples in which area for me GW2 WvWvW is way inferior compared to DAoC RvR:

1.) You pretty much can forget to run with a single group. To capture anything you really need more people than that. In the last build the NPC guards were simply too strong and actually did hurt and kill you if you didn't have the numbers for it. Definitely different than the minor annoyances the DAoC guards were.

2.) The action based combat system with the crowd control that are nothing but mere jokes further makes zerging the only viable thing. I always loved catching groups or even zergs totally unprepared with long roots or mezzes to then pull them apart despite being totally outnumbered. With CCs that only last 3+ seconds there is nothing like that in GW2 what makes such epic experiences pretty unlikely in WvWvW.

3.) Map sizes are way too small encouraging zerging EVEN FURTHER. You can run everywhere on the map in very low time and you see the fights on the map from pretty far away making everyone and their rabbit able to track you down. No way to actually be sneaky and outsmart people like it was so wonderfully possible in DAoC with the awesome big maps.

4.) The lack of meaningful healing is a pain while sieging. Risking to have people being all like "You're silly, buy loads of siege weapons and it's easy" but I do consider the siege weapon system flawed as it is. It's too easy to nuke people down from up at the wall while hitting them in exchange only works with ground target spells if they are halfway smart making it quite a pain to have any impact whatsoever as melee character without a siege weapon if you want to actually participate in the siege rather than running around waiting for supply caravans or other defenders to pop up to stop them.

5.) Back and forth and back and forth yet again. Yawn, really. Another impact of the silly crowd control system is that fights often end in silly back and forth movements of 2 lines of ranged people with often barely anyone dying except the occasional melee suicider. I can't count the times when I just wished for a crowd control system that at least is somewhat closer to DAoC to have more tactical possibilities to nail and actually end fights.

Those are only some of the major flaws I see in GW2 WvWvW compared to DAoC. I would definitely suggest trying to get into one of the BWEs before buying that game. Comparing GW2 to DAoC for me and all of my former DAoC friends has lead to mostly major disappointments.

I soloed guards with my mesmer last BWE. Not a group of em but in singles yeah.

Ilaya · June 2012

Originally posted by Saydien
1.) You pretty much can forget to run with a single group. To capture anything you really need more people than that. In the last build the NPC guards were simply too strong and actually did hurt and kill you if you didn't have the numbers for it. Definitely different than the minor annoyances the DAoC guards were.

The Keeps and Towers (beside from Main Keep) are supposed to be taken by a normal 5 ppl grp (sry that i dont have a link for that info right now, but google will bring it up i think) so it was never a "biggy" to take a Keep WITHOUT a Big Zerg going on and claim it for our guild. Sry, dont know what you have played on that weekend mate. (no offense!!)

terrant · June 2012

Originally posted by Saydien
I totally disagree with the people above and state that GW2 for me is nowhere in the same direction than DAoC is despite the WvWvW system seeming rather similar. The way the maps are designed and the combat system in itself for me really GREATLY reduces the fun compared to what I had in DAoC. Though I will add that it really is a matter of taste.

I'll just name a few examples in which area for me GW2 WvWvW is way inferior compared to DAoC RvR:

1.) You pretty much can forget to run with a single group. To capture anything you really need more people than that. In the last build the NPC guards were simply too strong and actually did hurt and kill you if you didn't have the numbers for it. Definitely different than the minor annoyances the DAoC guards were.

2.) The action based combat system with the crowd control that are nothing but mere jokes further makes zerging the only viable thing. I always loved catching groups or even zergs totally unprepared with long roots or mezzes to then pull them apart despite being totally outnumbered. With CCs that only last 3+ seconds there is nothing like that in GW2 what makes such epic experiences pretty unlikely in WvWvW.

3.) Map sizes are way too small encouraging zerging EVEN FURTHER. You can run everywhere on the map in very low time and you see the fights on the map from pretty far away making everyone and their rabbit able to track you down. No way to actually be sneaky and outsmart people like it was so wonderfully possible in DAoC with the awesome big maps.

4.) The lack of meaningful healing is a pain while sieging. Risking to have people being all like "You're silly, buy loads of siege weapons and it's easy" but I do consider the siege weapon system flawed as it is. It's too easy to nuke people down from up at the wall while hitting them in exchange only works with ground target spells if they are halfway smart making it quite a pain to have any impact whatsoever as melee character without a siege weapon if you want to actually participate in the siege rather than running around waiting for supply caravans or other defenders to pop up to stop them.

5.) Back and forth and back and forth yet again. Yawn, really. Another impact of the silly crowd control system is that fights often end in silly back and forth movements of 2 lines of ranged people with often barely anyone dying except the occasional melee suicider. I can't count the times when I just wished for a crowd control system that at least is somewhat closer to DAoC to have more tactical possibilities to nail and actually end fights.

Those are only some of the major flaws I see in GW2 WvWvW compared to DAoC. I would definitely suggest trying to get into one of the BWEs before buying that game. Comparing GW2 to DAoC for me and all of my former DAoC friends has lead to mostly major disappointments.

1. I've seen guards killed by small groups, and occasionally soloed. The latter however is difficult.

2. Now, I've never played DAoC so I can't respond from that perspective...however I quite often during BWE 2 took the role of picking off stragglers, lure and kill, etc

3. I have both snuck up on and flanekd as been as been snuck up on and flanked by other groups. subtefuge tactics are viable.

4. Man, getting tired of posting this but...I'm afraid there's a better plan. Which, given how DAoC is supposedly the god of siege tactic games, I thought you all would know. Ranged on the ground focuses on attackers on the walls. You kill those you can, but mostly your goal is supression/area denial. Keep them from doing anything meaningful by discouraging them from repair, chasing them off cannons, harassing rezzers, etc. Your melee can A) operate siege, hit the door while the defenders are otherwise occupied, C) take out supply runs, D) attack enemy supply camps, and E) most important of all...harass and kill runbacks. Each faction only has ONE spawn point for their side. You KNOW where the enemy is coming from. Set a handful of good melee at a viable ambush point and keep respawns from getting into the keep! I cannot tell you how many times I saw players running past 20+ enemy attackers to get into their keep completely unmolested.

The problem is almost everyone has it in their heads that siege is all about "focus fire on the door, ignore everything else". That mentality is what's making WvW protracted ranged battles where nothing useful happens. And then, when someone wises up and uses some real tactics, you see small groups demolishing larger ones and taking keeps with little effort.

5. Meh., Dunno what to tell you. As a melee-exclusive character I racked up plenty of kills the other weekend.

Adalwulff · June 2012

The WvW is very much like DAOCs RvR, but it doesnt take as long to get around, and you can do a lot more with fewer people.

Somebody commented on the lack of CC, imo that is what killed DAOC. Sure it was a good way to stop a zerg, but thats the problem, it ended up zerg vs zerg, and the first group to get thier CCs off wins. If GW2 goes down that road, I will shelve it and wait for WoD.

The supply routes are a nice addition, and I havent seen players take full advantage of it yet, of course we have only had 2 BWEs, so its natural to see a lot of zerging for now. I expect that to change fast.

Also, in DAOC there were balance issues, and many classes were one shotted, you wont find that in GW2.

Melogore · June 2012

The lack of CC is one of the reasons I like GW2. Slows and quick stuns are the only CC this game has. that is its beauty as well. Nothing sucks more than getting locked down and focus fired on over and over. That seemed to be the name of the game in DaoC, WoW, War, lol and just about every mmo in the history of mmo's. The fact the you can switch styles with every class makes this game unique. I see people complaining about melee characters not having stuff to do? Lol. I got a ton of kills with my warrior switching to bows. When I was playing a guardian I was shielding up areas as well as putting down some pretty serious range damage. When the gates fell I switched to 2hander and flew into battle. I think the problem people have with this game is alot of people don't seem to realize yet the full potential of the classes, so they fall into that structured thinking of old MMO's.

I have used terrain to sneak up on players. I even escaped from a mob of 6 or so players chasing me by hopping in a lake when I rounded a corner and was out of site for a second. The guys didn't think I hopped in the water and none checked to see if I was in the water. While they were still I came out the lake and killed one of them before the rest noticed I was there. Even though I died right after the kill, It still felt pretty good that I pulled off a vanishing act with my Nord Guardian using the terrain and got a surprise attack kill.

The brilliant thing about GW2 for me is the many ways each class and switch roles on the fly. Even I still fall into the old thinking when playing every now and again. I was playing this Elemantal I made and completely forgot I could switch from fire to earth or water magic to better survive where I was having problems in this one area I was at. Then it hit me after I died the second time to switch up my role. I just think it will take time for folks to see and realize this isn't your standard MMO. I remember playing DaoC and at some points during seiges some classes litterally had nothing to do but stand around waiting. In this game I was busy the whole time with whatever class I was playing. The only class I didn't play was Mesmer but I imagaine that class is unique as well as all the others with its ability to switch up roles. I cannot wait for this one to go live.

Setzer · June 2012

Originally posted by Saydien
I totally disagree with the people above and state that GW2 for me is nowhere in the same direction than DAoC is despite the WvWvW system seeming rather similar. The way the maps are designed and the combat system in itself for me really GREATLY reduces the fun compared to what I had in DAoC. Though I will add that it really is a matter of taste.

I'll just name a few examples in which area for me GW2 WvWvW is way inferior compared to DAoC RvR:

1.) You pretty much can forget to run with a single group. To capture anything you really need more people than that. In the last build the NPC guards were simply too strong and actually did hurt and kill you if you didn't have the numbers for it. Definitely different than the minor annoyances the DAoC guards were.

And you could do keep takes with a single group in DAoC? I don't remember it being like that. I don't ever remember taking a keep with 5 people or less. If you had less than 5 people and tried to take down a keep lord in DAoC you got steam rolled. At least that's how I remember it....they may have changed things since I stopped playing. This past BWE we took down a keep lord with 6 of us and I consider that to be a fairly small group. Objectives in WvW or RvR were not designed to be taken by small groups. Why do you think its called WORLD vs. WORLD or REALM vs. REALM? You want to do PvP in a smaller group then go do structured PvP.

2.) The action based combat system with the crowd control that are nothing but mere jokes further makes zerging the only viable thing. I always loved catching groups or even zergs totally unprepared with long roots or mezzes to then pull them apart despite being totally outnumbered. With CCs that only last 3+ seconds there is nothing like that in GW2 what makes such epic experiences pretty unlikely in WvWvW.

Thank God GW2 doesn't have crazy CC like all MMO's do. I loved DAoC but the CC was absolutely ridiculous. AE Mezzes & Snares that lasted over a minute and that could be cast from a mile away.....yeah that makes the game loads of fun! Not having control over your character for more than a minute while your group gets picked apart one by one. Sure, you got RA abilities such as Purge which you could use once every 5min but even if you did pop it you would just get CC'd again and there wasn't diminishing returns. How is PvP fun when you have no control over your character?

3.) Map sizes are way too small encouraging zerging EVEN FURTHER. You can run everywhere on the map in very low time and you see the fights on the map from pretty far away making everyone and their rabbit able to track you down. No way to actually be sneaky and outsmart people like it was so wonderfully possible in DAoC with the awesome big maps.

I'm beginning to think you didn't even try a BWE, just watched videos on YouTube or something. There are 4 pretty big zones for WvW - one for each World and a central zone called the Eternal Battlegrounds. Each of the maps were fairly big in size and depending on where you were fighting, you had quite the trek back to the action if you died. Also, no way of being sneaky? They only designate where the fighting is on the map, not where the enemy is at all times. So, as long as you're not in combat then no one knows where you are. Plenty of opportunity for sneak attacks on keeps.

5.) Back and forth and back and forth yet again. Yawn, really. Another impact of the silly crowd control system is that fights often end in silly back and forth movements of 2 lines of ranged people with often barely anyone dying except the occasional melee suicider. I can't count the times when I just wished for a crowd control system that at least is somewhat closer to DAoC to have more tactical possibilities to nail and actually end fights.

If you're facing another group that is about the same size as your group then shouldn't it be a fairly even fight? Why do we need to have long duration CC be the deciding factor in a fight? "Oh we got the Sorcerer with the bolt range AE Mez. We win!" Stupid. There are plenty of tactical possibilities without the need for CC. There were times over this past BWE where my world would take a keep then another world showed up to try and take it back and we would push them back, then they would come at us again with an even bigger army and finally took the keep from us. People were dying left and right. You do know that everyone can rez each other, right? It keeps the action going if you can get a fellow player up and back into the action.

Those are only some of the major flaws I see in GW2 WvWvW compared to DAoC. I would definitely suggest trying to get into one of the BWEs before buying that game. Comparing GW2 to DAoC for me and all of my former DAoC friends has lead to mostly major disappointments.

Yes, I definitely recommend anyone who loved DAoC to give WvW a shot. I'm sure you'll find it as enjoyable as I did. Once I got to level 5 on my Ranger I went out to WvW and leveled to 14 doing nothing but that. It was a blast and I haven't had that much fun doing PvP since DAoC.

Atlan99 · June 2012

I can't believe people are comparing that dated relic to GW2.

I tried that game and there was nothing redeeming about it. GW2 WvWvW is superior in every single way to DAOC. It even runs better than DAOC FFS.

Shiotcrock · June 2012

duplicate post

Shiotcrock · June 2012

What made Daoc good

1. Big Areas

2. Simple colors

3. Cool enemies

4. Finding a group

5. Scary Dungeons

6. Darkness falls

7. Awesome spells and sounds

8. The Druid's Tree summon spell untill they took it away and replaced it with a bear I think

I bought like 7 copies of this game cause I was so addicted to it and kept breaking the discs

I still have one copy in the closet with all the expansions except for the last two.

Setzer · June 2012

Originally posted by Shiotcrock
What made Daoc good

1. Big Areas

2. Simple colors

3. Cool enemies

4. Finding a group

5. Scary Dungeons

6. Darkness falls

7. Awesome spells and sounds

8. The Druid's Tree summon spell untill they took it away and replaced it with a bear I think

I bought like 7 copies of this game cause I was so addicted to it and kept breaking the discs

I still have one copy in the closet with all the expansions except for the last two.

I hope Anet implements their own version of Darkness Falls.

spector_0_0 · June 2012

I think one of the biggest alures (for me) of DAoC PvP was that individual players could really affect the outcome of a fight quite drastically. I played a Healer (Midgard) and I could single-handedly change the sway of fight with my cc. Similarly, as an Enchanter, I could wreak devastating PBAoE if my enemies didn't notice my little Lurikeen slip into their group. As a sorcerer, I could lay waste to clumps of enemies with nasty DoTs. Each class had real purpose and excelled in various battle tactics. I guess you could say that each class was "overpowered" in a particular area. I have no idea what happened beyond Trials of Atlantis, as I stopped playing then. I know that realm pride was strong, and stealing an enemy's relic was a huge blow to their morale. Keep seiges were intense no matter if you were defending or attacking. My days in Midgard on Lancelot were by far some of the most fun I have had in an mmorpg. I'm hoping that GW2 can help recapture some of the good ol' days.

Saydien · June 2012

Originally posted by spector_0_0
I think one of the biggest alures (for me) of DAoC PvP was that individual players could really affect the outcome of a fight quite drastically. I played a Healer (Midgard) and I could single-handedly change the sway of fight with my cc. Similarly, as an Enchanter, I could wreak devastating PBAoE if my enemies didn't notice my little Lurikeen slip into their group. As a sorcerer, I could lay waste to clumps of enemies with nasty DoTs. Each class had real purpose and excelled in various battle tactics. I guess you could say that each class was "overpowered" in a particular area. I have no idea what happened beyond Trials of Atlantis, as I stopped playing then. I know that realm pride was strong, and stealing an enemy's relic was a huge blow to their morale. Keep seiges were intense no matter if you were defending or attacking. My days in Midgard on Lancelot were by far some of the most fun I have had in an mmorpg. I'm hoping that GW2 can help recapture some of the good ol' days.

That's pretty much how I feel and what I loved in DAoC back then. If you did your part exceptionally well then it had an impact. I can't see that happen in GW2. The only way to have an huge and exceptional impact on the outcome of a fight probably is by using siege weapons what has absolutely nothing to do with skill.

For me this casual game approach sadly also means that the impact of the individual or a group of 2-5 friends on the outcome of the battles are VERY limited. That in my eyes is what will make quite some of the hardcore PVP people drop the game again rather soon. No rivalry due to being nameless and no feelable impact of individual skill is poison for the dedicated and hardcore PVP crowd.

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