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A question about GW2's End Game
alancode
Member UncommonPosts: 163
in Guild Wars 2
As much as we all hate to say it, everyone likes progression. Once you hit max level in GW2, as far as I know, and I have played the beta, looked through all the gear on vendors, you will not need to do the whole, "gear grind" You will just PvP, and get a few enchantments for your gear, maybe get a new bow.
I have thought about this a few times, and I think people don't want to believe they like gear grinding, and say that it is a boring part of games. I agree it sucks...question is though if you get your gear handed to you..will you still play as much?
(-_-)
Comments
does it matter ? No really .....does it?
if you have fun while it last does it matter that it stops while its fun ?
They do have a "gear grind", AN have stated this multiple times, "end game" gear with the stats needed to do most content will not be hard to get but what will reward time you put into the game is "good looking" gear, which you can Transmute onto gear with the stats you need.
stylin'
If you have fun in any than nothing else matters.
(-_-)
Yes I will because to me this game is not about the "gear grind end game". There is no end game. I will play this game for the exploration/pvp/achievements/ and so on. If people feel they have to grind gear for "stats", then this is not the game for them. If they want to "grind" for gear for other reasons, then they can do the dungeons to get their "uber cool looking" armor and so on.
I love the fact that all the top armor has the same stats because stats is not the reason I will be playing the game.
Games are only fun while they are challenging.
Grinding gear to make the game less challenging is kinda delaying the inevitable and grabbing another $15 or $30 (more if one is a bit on the slow side or addicted) of your money. Grinding gear so you can progress is even dumber (Oh I could kill it if my sword dealt 500 damage instead of 300...).
What is needed are mobs that are smart or stay challenging enough you can't fall asleep while you grind titles and shinnies to look bad ass.
PvP might be fun because the mobs there aren't predictable.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
I agree somewhat with you, except how long and how many people want to just explore/achievements. PvP is my only intrest in any game now days, PvE is too easy and repetitive. Even the "hearts" are easy and the same. Different I give it that, but still...
(-_-)
Since I haven't gone high enough into the game to tell, I am no authority. But from what I have seen so far, I do not believe that PVE is going to be "easy". Once the initial zones are left behind, I will venture a guess that you will have to stay on your toes or you will die many deaths. I feel this PVE will be anything BUT easy.
/shudder... he used the 'EG' word...
Death to end game.
What a new and fascinating question, what has never before been thought up on these forums.
Sigh...
To answer it though, it will depend. WvW, thanks to the server matchups frequently changing, will have some degree of freshness no matter what. As will sPvP.
However, even those can get stale. In this Gw2, like ANY MMO (and yes that includes "endgame focused" titles like WoW) is dependant on how often the developers add new and exciting content for the players
Honestly, this is no different for GW2 than any other game. Look at WoW, the pinnacle of endgame progression based games. A decent guild generally clears new raid content in a few weeks if not otherwise gated (like Sunwell or Icecrown were, for instance). Top Flight guilds ususally can do the same in days. Even hard modes often take only a few months after they become available for many guilds. Then they farm the same raids ad nauseum for months until new content is released. If someone can manage to sit through farming the same couple bosses in Icecrown for months at a time before (yay!) 3 new bosses are unveiled...I think GW2 has just as much a chance at succeeding in this.
Anet has stated there is "end game" It's not your typical cookie cutter MMO End game. Like WoW/Rift/Tera and I was going to say swotr but there isn't any end game in swotr. Basically to break it down for those who have no idea (Yes this even those who have played beta and only achieved level 1-15 and think they know the game)
1)There will be 4-5 (don't qoute me on exact do to the recent changes) Dungeons I actually think six one for each race and a 2 diffrent types of ways to encounter these dungeons.Explorable (which is pretty much Hardmode on crack) and Story (which is also pretty much hardmode when compared to modern MMO'S)So if there was 6X2 So @ launch that's 12 diffrent dungeons for level 80's(max level)
2)End game raiding (Since there is no trinity ANET has shyed away from saying raiding but "Dynamic events" There are massive bosses they will require many people to engage to win.(Other words raiding!)
I had the pleasure to play both modes for the level 30 dungeon(Ascalon dungeon) and I have to say..Intense the best dungeon run I have had since Avalon City in DAOC.
PvP fact is G2 has the best PvP out there! (Tera Lol!) (SWOTR LoL!) even WoW arena/bg's are all stale and boring. I haven't enjoyed PvP so intense since DAOC(This is my personal opinion on PvP so keep the QQ to yourselves)
I was a naysayer (WoW fanboi in some eyes because I was "Hardcore raider").When In reality I would raid with the same 10 people every week 4 times a week and we were just good 2nd best on server and in the top 100 for world.I left wow @ 4.2 because I was just so bored out of my mind it was all the same crap every week every year!
When I entered Tyria I was a skeptic to the nine but fact is they have made an amazing game. Every time I leave the game from a BWE or stress test I miss the game and honestly can't play other MMO'S I find myself playing DeadSpace or DeadIsland something with zombies! lol
In closing I will say. "I TRUST ANET" To actually trust an MMO company to deliver on what there selling is rare. I haven't felt I could trust a gaming company since Mythic Inc before EA tore them apart and destroyed DAOC with TOA!..So even thought Anet hasn't given US all the details of end game I have faith! I have paid my $70.00 and truthfully with No sub If I enjoy it for 6 months I got my moneys worth.Yet just my short amount of time in the BWE to level 42 I can say it's so much fun! and there so much in the game I haven't even touched! So have "FAITH" I know it's hard when so many companies dip into our pockets to just not deliver and be all hype but something is diffrent here about ANET.I think they actually care!
The endgame is pretty much the same as the endgame in GW1. I think i've played GW1 for about 6 years or so and not once did i see anyone complain about there being no stat gear grind (not saying nobody did, i just didn't see it myself during my playtime).
There might be no "endgame stat gear", but that doesn't mean there won't be armor sets/weapons that are hard to get. When i play games like WoW, my mindset is like "must collect best gear", but when i play GW1, that mindset changes to "must collect cool gear". I'm not saying either one is better then the other, but i'm trying to say that most people will change their mindset depending on the game they're playing. When people realise there's no "best stats gear" in a game, they'll start looking for what people consider the best armor in that game. In GW2's case, that will be rare armor sets, expensive armor sets, etc etc..
People sometimes underestimate the amount of value most people put in cosmetics. And when the GW2 playerbase realises that rare/expensive armors = endgame armor in GW2, you'd be surprised how much people will start chasing those things.
There's also stuff like achievements/titles that you should take into account. Consider GW2 as having mostly the same amount of progression as other similar themeparks, except that the "stat grind" changes to "i want to stand out from the rest" grind.
TL;DR: the endgame worked fine in GW1, it should do fine in GW2 aswell.
Every MMO has an endgame, so has GW2.
Whenever you run out of skill-progression, which usually happens at max level in traditional theme-parks and when you run out of story content (here personal story, hearts and DEs), you have reached your endgame. Now the motivation shifts for a lot of people. You need new goals in order to keep playing.
So the question is valid. Why would you keep playing, if you saw all DEs in ALL zones more than once and you have skilled your character perfectly. This is endgame now, even in GW2!
Dont tell me to do pvp, dont tell me to craft, dont tell me to run dungeons, and dont tell me to make alts and redo DEs. I know about all of this. I dont say its bad. But exactly this is the endgame of GW2. So dont tell me, that GW2 got no endgame. It is clearly there.
played: Everquest I (6 years), EVE (3 years)
months: EQII, Vanguard, Siedler Online, SWTOR, Guild Wars 2
weeks: WoW, Shaiya, Darkfall, Florensia, Entropia, Aion, Lotro, Fallen Earth, Uncharted Waters
days: DDO, RoM, FFXIV, STO, Atlantica, PotBS, Maestia, WAR, AoC, Gods&Heroes, Cultures, RIFT, Forsaken World, Allodds
Anet has actually gone on record to say"Gear will be dependent @ higher levels" but also cosmetic. Granted you can enter pvp and have the same "level 80" stats but those who get the PvP sets or PvE sets and are level 80 will have a clear advantage not huge one but still an advantage..and Yes there are sets out there!Attached is my level 42 element with a set.
Your definitely right UsulDaNeriak, GW2 does have a endgame as you stated. heck, just having a level 80 cap is clearly telling me that.
Now if GW2 was a sandbox mmorpg we all would be singing a different tune, but it isn't and will go down the same line like any other themepark mmo (I just hope they put more different innovation into their mmo as years go by to keep it fresh).
Typical End game Content in most recent MMO's = Massive Raid Dungeons 10-20 man groups and or enjoyably difficult 5-10 man dungeons. These dungeons drop 1 unique item per boss or one unique item at the completion. These items are not for everyone contributing and most guilds used a system to distribute this one item making everyone else need to rerun the same raid / dungeon over and over until they get the items they want.
Does Guild Wars 2 provide Raid Scale Boss fights? Also does Guild Wars 2 Provide Gear / Loot for just one person within the group even though everyone contributes?
1. Guild Wars 2 has, just to name 2, open world Raid Scale Boss fights. One is The Shatterer and another is Tequatl the Sunless. There are also other smaller open world bosses such as Shadow behemoth, and many many others. The big Raid Scale bosses don't just allow 20 people to participate infact you may need more then that to defeat these bosses. The area in which you need to fight these bosses have other NPC activity that will ease the battle just a little if used, such as cannons and more.
2. Not only does 1 piece of wanted gear drop from these bosses but EVERYONE who participates gains rewards from their own personal loot dropped by a huge treasure chest.
On top of that the game does have more then one, five man dungeons that can be run in different modes these too are not an easy walk in the park and also provide everyone who participates rewards not just one person.
So from the looks of it we've only seen a very small amount of the "end game" equivalent content which to me seems to be designed to cause less "loot" whore bickering after loot is dropped and since everyone participates in the battle everyone is rewarded not just one person. Seems fair to me.
So is there end game type content? Yes definately because the entire game is designed as something you can do from level 1-80 since you get scaled down to area levels. This means that if you missed some big open world DE boss fight you can always go back to one of those area's and enjoy it without being over powered for the content ruining the experience.
Typical End game Content in most recent MMO's = Massive Raid Dungeons 10-20 man groups and or enjoyably difficult 5-10 man dungeons. These dungeons drop 1 unique item per boss or one unique item at the completion. These items are not for everyone contributing and most guilds used a system to distribute this one item making everyone else need to rerun the same raid / dungeon over and over until they get the items they want.
For those who have played Demon's Souls/Dark Souls, i'd say the way armor works in GW2 will be similar to how they work in both the games i just mentioned. All armor sets and weapons in Demon's Souls/Dark Souls had different stats/bonusses, but yet pretty much every armor set/weapon was strong enough to use as your main armor, you just had to find the gear that worked best for the build you were using.
I think it will also work like this in GW2. All armor sets will have a different set of stats or bonus, and some armor sets will work better with the build you're using, but all of the high level armor sets will be on the same power level.
Your post reeks of snide anti-GW2 remarks that only shows despise.
The game itself cotains an amount of fun that is equal to shooters that have people log in each and every day, even after they've collected every silly hat possible (TF2).
Actually, unless you 'finish' the run to 80 in a week or 2 (which obviously means you didn't do 'everything'), Anet has stated that they will be surreptitiously placing content in the game everywhere...low levels, higher levels, etc.
Finally, if you aren't interested in PvP, and don't want to see what might be new in lower levels (including DE's that have pushed to the far end of their spectrum in ways you might not have seen because there were enough people to keep the DE's 'under control'), then the game IS done for you and you will be waiting with baited breath for the next expansion/holiday/whatever.
I plan to explore every squaremeter of this game and do every DE more than once. Thats not my point.
And i also know, that Arenanet said, that they will deliver new and modified DE content regulary. I know this statetement very well. I just heard it from Bioware a few months ago
played: Everquest I (6 years), EVE (3 years)
months: EQII, Vanguard, Siedler Online, SWTOR, Guild Wars 2
weeks: WoW, Shaiya, Darkfall, Florensia, Entropia, Aion, Lotro, Fallen Earth, Uncharted Waters
days: DDO, RoM, FFXIV, STO, Atlantica, PotBS, Maestia, WAR, AoC, Gods&Heroes, Cultures, RIFT, Forsaken World, Allodds
Ah but they already have. The "Down-Level to Region" feature in GW2 means that it's the first Themepark MMO I've ever played where virtually *all* the Content remains not only viable, but interesting and often challenging even at Level Cap.
Name one other MMO where you can have an awesomely epic fight against a "Lvl 10 World Elite" at Lvl 12, and then experience that same level of challenge and fun against the same mob at Lvl 20, 25, 40, 80, whenever you want.
I find this "Endgame" discussion so trivial, its defenders so idiotic. Let's look at the pinacle of "Endgame Epicness" - WoW currently has 1 (one) "Endgame Raid" 3 "Heroic" dungeons to support it. The other Raids are pretty much meaningless (except for cosmetics >.>). The other Heroics are ROFLstomp time-sinks to grind Tokens that offer no challenge or interest at all. Pretty much the entire World is useless and uninteresting in Raid Gear at Max Level except for flying around on your mount picking flowers for consumables :P
Now hey, if you are somebody who enjoys doing the exact same limited content (roughly 1 raid and 2-3 Heroics) over and over for months at a time in order to get "Purple Shineys" that make that exact content trivial - more power to you! You know what you like! Have fun doing it!
But if you in any way think there is less challenging or interesting content in GW2 at Max Level... you are delusional - Every Zone in the Game > 1 Raid + 3 Heroics.
I find that players' interest in gear tredmills has less to do with perpetually striving for higher stats and more to do with acquiring physical representions of their in-game accomplishments. Titles, achievements, rare difficult-to-obtain mounts, and yes, gear all fall into this category. Players like items that signify their accomplmishments to the rest of the community. As long as there is an abundance of challenging content for which players can be proud to have beaten, and as long as there are unique items that can only be obtained by beating said content, I believe players will be satisfied in this regard.
Here another feature of GW2 is worth mentioning: no content becomes obsolete or can be outgeared. Ever.
Througout the entire game, players will encounter challenging content (hopefully) and be able to display their rewards. Even at level 80, sporting your full set of transmogrified level 50 explorable mode dungeon gear remains significant--because even at level 80, you cannot overpower that level 50 dungeon since you are brought down to its level. To put this in context of a game like WoW, which is in the middle of its 3rd expansion, classic dungeons like UBRS, BRD, STRAT, SCHOLO and all the level 60 raids would still be relevant today. Players would still be interested in pursuing every tier set and dungeon set. And, most importantly of all, players would still be actively playing all the classic, BC, and WotLK dungeons and raids today! WoW would have an enormous amount of content. Instead--and I consider this a fundamental design flaw in most MMOs--with every new expansion, so much content from previous expansions becomes utterly obsolete. This won't be so with GW2, which is a great thing for veteran players seeking a nostalgic challenge and especially great for brand new players.
What is end game
Ive heard many folks don't know how to enjoy a game without constant progression. Fortunately for me I will pvp just like I ddi in GW1. There is some progression but its not gear or xp.
There is no gear treadmill in GW2, the devs have stated this very clearly in easily obtainable video interviews.
Also there won't be any dungeons higher than 5 mans, they have stated this to.
Anything else is panic from the raider crowd that a new fantasy mmo might come out without raiding.
If you want your guild to be well known be really good at WvWvW or have a great sPVP team. Otherwise RIFT is your option, perhaps, Secret world or TERA.
In my raiding years I never was loot driven, I was always the one to pass on the raid gear and other high end items drops unless the mechanics required me (always been main healer) to be geared up as one of the first to stand a chance against the bosses further in.
So I never raided for gears / upgrades / progression but for fun and because I was doing it full time I was guaranteed to have my full set before the next tier raid would be released. So no it's not the getting gear that kept me playing longer because I never needed to grind for it anyways. Same if there were some other progressions from dungeon clusters required before entering a raid, I would just play it and guildies would make sure I would get the drops they needed me to have in order to be raid ready. Meanwhile I was just having fun running those.