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Scam or...
Comaf
Member UncommonPosts: 1,150
I get why they are announcing an mmorpg 4 years in advance of a beta, and I am sure you all are as well. We aren't morons, regardless of how dummed down the community has become thanks to the swell of FPS players infiltrating mmorpgs and turning fantasy warfare into a third person fantasy shooter (Huttball anyone?).
It is apparent that the "developer(s)" of this title have very little financial foundation. My guess is that they got together one day (whoever they really is) and said, "hey, let's get a kickstarter program in funding, get folks to donate, and before you know it, we will have the money to make an mmorpg."
This is at best all this is and it's ridiculous and unethical. Or is it?
There are a lot of folks who want to be developers; possibly as many who want to be aspiring authors (and can barely formulate a thought or sentence). So just what if the folks at EoC have a grand idea? What if they are going to build the first good sandbox mmorpg since Shadowbane? What if the entire reason the genre of the mmo is dying is because the creative folks aren't getting investors. Perhaps investors have fooled themselves through narcissism and avarice into thinking that they can get their fingers into the next pot of WoW success? And maybe the community of gamers is really dum as a box of rocks? Perhaps they all sit at home and ingest smoky substances and wait for their mom to make them dinner whilst they sit in front of a system and play GW2? Or what if, folks really aren't as stupid as the industry is making them out to be?
Enter the advantage of donating, participating, and keeping talent out of the hands of those corporate investors who have destroyed nearly every mmoRPG project since WoW.
Maybe it's time to prove the industry wrong, to show that we can have a great sandbox without relying on a bunch of suits who would turn it into a steaming pile of entropy.
Finally, consider the fact that there are easily hundreds of thousands of gamers in the States alone who would love to play a free to roam no holds barred sandbox. If each of those folks tossed in a few bucks each month, say $2.00, then consider the kind of funding this sandbox could receive. Of course I humbly believe that those who do participate in a kickstarter program (where they drop a few dollars in the donation pot here and there), should be able to fully alpha and beta test without need for invite. Just my thoughts.
So it's really up to you folks. This project could just be a scam, or, consider the possibilities.
Comments
Nefastus - Enclave
1. Kickstart programs exist, it's the idea that we can input currency to support a game in development.
2. There's no guarantee that after investing in said game, that it will ever come to fruition
3. There are an endless accolade of folks who want to be developers, but do not have the money
4. It's in the nature of some folks with a plan, to really be trying to find ways to live off your cash while they toy around with making an mmorpg.
Examples of vaporware:
1. Dawn (Glitchless) They claim to still be about ready to go beta
2. Firefly (Multiverse Netweork Inc)
3. Buffy (MNI I believe)
4. Otherland (remember Tad Williams?) - (DTP Games)
5. Infinity (too tired to look up dev)
The list goes on and on.
Point is, vaporware does exist. With the kickstarter program, folks are risking sending dollars to such organizations who may or may not have the doner's best interests in mind.
In the case of Embers, I am hoping this is a viable investment.
If I were a college drop out or worked at walmart I would be making conspiracy novels on mmorpg forums as well, and would be seriously concerned about sending my life savings (20 dollars) to random kickstart projects. However this is not the case. If they really are vaporware and just split with the money -oh well- I would gladly give a few bucks at the possibility of getting a MMO that really appeals to me.
I vote scam.
A donation is just that, a donation not an investement. So I don't see the viability.
These Indie companys are no better than a beggar in the street, they just do it on a more sophisticated level. The beggar uses a tin can, the Indie company uses a webpage. Who in their right mind would donate to a company, that is not a charitable organization, but a for profit organization with goals to enrich themselves from your donations?
That said, you did miss Wish, which became The Wish project on your list, and subsequently another failed idea. The internet is littered with these failed dreams and promises all buried now in virtual space for us to revisit.
I am an avid sandbox connoisseur, but until a ligitimate one emerges I plan to play EVE and probably the occasional themepark that entertaines me for a few months.
Consumers beware. Never preorder, and never donate.
My 2cents.
http://www.entropiapartners.com/?r=22415
From what I have seen, they are just a bunch of indie developers who got together and are giving everything they got to make this game a success. I have seen their topic on gamedev.net and by the looks of it, they are serious with the project. There are several MMO-s that started just like this game and have grown quite big so I wouldn't call it a scam(thats just stupid, lets be honest).
Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish.
Euripides (484 BC - 406 BC)
Keep enjoying yoru wow clones, the fact is indies are NOT all bad, most indies want to do something most AAA 's don't have the balls to do, or care to do because they just want your money so if anything is a scam its SWTOR, and every other WOW clone that you dummy's buy....
Being a newwer Developer myself most of us build games for fun and to make something different but then we have people like you, why would we wanna make games for people who are ungreatful ? So again NOT all indies are bad, and after what I seen the amount of work they have done they are for real... so before you run your mouth get your facts right..
/rolllseyes
kids today
PS, people like to cause problems and whine about everything, most people who do just don't have a life...
I believe it was in the last ten years when folks who type to communicate began complaining about anything more than a few broken sentences being akin to a "novel."
As a Wallmart employee or college drop out, I am sure that had you understood the post you would have gotten the idea that I am actually non supporting a conspiracy theory, rather, I pointed out some well known facts and went on to say that Embers might be viable.
Master's degree here by the way, for what that's worth in today's economy, and while I support Wallmart's brilliant business model, I have never had the privilege of working there
Though in regards to your post, sometimes folks are like garbage trucks, i.e., they carry around all this trash and have to dump it off somewhere.
/2 cents
Nice!
I hope you aren't responsible for the editing and grammar portion of your alleged mmorpg project
All kidding aside (I'll kindly assume English isn't your first language and then I'll shut up so as not to further embarrass myself!), I believe that you are trying to say that Embers, as an independent project, might be a viable attempt to create something that is not misleading? In other words, you support kickstarting Embers?
Thanks for posting
Well said and I get your point. Oh and you are correct, I forgot to write in Wish - a game I really wished had come to fruition, along with Dark and Light, and a few others.
Fair enough. I took a new look at this and as I am a Tad Williams fan - albeit his fantasy novels, not his sci-fi, happy to see that this is finally coming along. Note that it was on the vaporware list for a while.
Though be aware that, for example, we could arguably call Dark and Light vaporware "evolved" or some similar title, being that mmorpgs can come to life and be a live log-in mmorpg, but they end up with literally less than a few hundred players at best (remember Alganon? - you probably haven't even heard of it).
I'll keep my eye on the Tad Williams project...could just bottom out next week.
Here, since you cannot be bothered to look it up, here is the definition
taken from WIkipedia
Vaporware is a term in the computer industry that describes a product, typically computer hardware or software, that is announced to the general public but is never actually released nor officially cancelled. Vaporware is also a term sometimes used to describe events that are announced or predicted, never officially cancelled, but never intended to happen. The term also generally applies to a product that is announced months or years before its release, and for which public development details are lacking. The word has been applied to a growing range of products including consumer, automobiles, and some stock trading practices. At times, vendors are criticized for intentionally producing vaporware in order to keep customers from switching to competitive products that offer more features.[1]
You may notice that it says "not offically canceled" and as SEVERAL games you list off WERE cancled, please use proper terms. You can't simply define and redefine things as you see fit.
Whos list? Yours?
You are incorrectly defining things as vapor ware.
You have been a busy bee! Apparently I have affected you at an emotional level which makes me wonder if you are truly a man who laughs
So what I will do is this so that you feel somewhat satisfied in this little world we call a thread:
SPECIAL note and caveat:
I have definitely extended the vaporware meaning to include games that have just fallen apart at the seams before, during, or after release. I am glad that you caught on to that!
Here's a smaller definition: Though I like the Merriam Webster version (which is like yours minus the highlighting and apparent emotional tone):
VAPORWARE: a computer-related product that has been widely advertised but has not and may never become available
I will continue, however, to use this variation on vaporware's definition (sorry Merriam Webster), so that we can more broadly include other failed projects. If this offends you, look at it this way, religions use a term that people fight and die over, i.e., GOD. But ironically, God is something different to almost every single person.
Please try to see it in this way in the future, especially in regards to my liberal use of the term, "vaporware."
Anyway, back on topic: I support the Embers of Caerus project. Looks decent in my limited opinion
/salute
And it came out what, 8 years after it was announced?
On 29 August 2001, Razorwax announced the development of Darkfall and launched its official website.Darkfall launched successfully in N. America on July 13, 2009
Can't blame people for thinking it was vapor.
Ehm, games developed by small indie companies usually come out after 5+ years. Also, Razorwax consited of I believe 5 Norwegian guys (If I remember correctly), until they merged with Aventurine years later.
Nefastus - Enclave
I have faith in them, I've spoken to a few of the dev's and they really seem to be putting %100 into this game, as a small company they needed money and hopefully with money they recieved from the kickstarter and the on going income from the supporter plan they can get on their feet create something amazing for us, but also themselves, their main reason for creating EoC is because they wabnt to play a true sandbox MMO not to make money, but so they to can experience a true sandbox.
it's hilarious that some1 acutally invested $10,000 into this game before even seeing an alpha version.
If anything this game should win the most effective marketing campaign to actually raise 45k based on smoke screen.
Obviously all those who invested in this game are BAD investor.
Come to think of it, I should go mock a up fake website and promising a phantom mmo and see how much i can scam. Better yet, I would even promise them a return on their investment just like Madoff :P
I always find it remarkable that out of the woodwork, a member of mmorpg.com for many many years with two whole posts, dedicates one of their posts to trolling a game they're clearly not interested in.
It's been said over and over again however I'd like to confirm that the kickstarter is something the community wanted us to do and we are very grateful for their help.
To innovate you need to take risks. I've gladly made an investment into the project and I'll never regret doing so. I've only ever committed what I'm happy to commit and I'm having a blast watching the game develop.
I am in a more privileged position though being able to see detailed designs, models and art ahead of time but I think I'd still be pretty keen if I didn't
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
As to whether it is a scam or not as with any kickstarter project there is no way to know ever. The could simply take the money pay their mortgage and go on to get a job that pays a regular salary.
I thought about donating to the kickstarter program but multiple things stopped me.
#1 There is no way for us to know how far along the project is and whether the game will live up to the devs descriptions or whether they are capable of producing said game. Examples of how hype did not meet reality - Vanguard, Dark and Light and many other games.
#2 the rewards for donating to the program were to me skimpy at best in a relative sense - If i am donating $200+ dollars to a nebulous progject I would expect to see something like a lifetime premium subscription offered. Instead you get a few months and some ingame currency thing. They do offer garaunteed access to all stages of testing - IE Alpha on up to release and other such incentives.
#3 related to #1 and not knowing what the game actually is and what state it is in I would rather buy a publicly traded stock option of some sort or even a short to medium term bond that has the potential to repay extra if the game is a success. I would gladly invest in a number of games out there that appear to be what I want in the hopes that the money invested will allow the devs to actually make the game I want instead of what a publisher perceives will generate the most revenue in the market. Even privately traded stock where we can buy a portion of the company and get a return(IE dividend) after the game is released.
I know there are a lot of gamers out there with real jobs and a decent amount of money that would be willing to drop 10 or 20 bucks on a project to fund it if they had some form of gaurantee that a successfull project would pay them back in some form or fashion.
What kind of level of commitment do they show by asking for donations? Donations are for non-profitable organizations and projects like charity, modders making free mods, etc.
What they need is a bank loan or find an investor like any other legitimate business. And if they can't find any of that then you're better off buying youself an ice cream than donating to these guys.