Originally posted by pierth Originally posted by bezado Originally posted by SpottyGekko Originally posted by bezadoOriginally posted by colddog04Please... no more Secret World combat talk... Some people like it, some people don't.There has to be another thread you could have pushed this into..
Well yeah it really doesn't matter. The only ones who like it are this generation of mmorpg players who like things easy and very very straight forward. Push this button and then this one repeatedly, I compare them in terms of experience as having no real experience. All they know is the last 5 years of online gaming is what is good to them, horrible direction mmorpg are taking. More toward the easy mode repetitive bullshit. Oh by the way it is okay to voice your comment or concerns on a mmorpg here, even if others may have already pointed it out, it still doesn't mean my opinion doesn't count just because others have mentioned it before, thanks. So what you're saying is that the majority of modern MMO players will actually like the TSW combat ?
That's high praise indeed
Actually yes, it pretty much is. Take any mmorpg gamer 1999-2005 and they have a affinity for knowing what is good or bad based on experience from playing multiple good mmorpg titles, let alone we didn't even get into non mmorpg's of normal games of anyone who played games prior to 1999. You see this game generation pretty much came up from the WOW period, young kids pretty much who experienced if you will the easy mode of mmorpg's. Now everything is easy and they like that, they are simple minded easy to please gamers. Nothing wrong with that if you like farmville.
Bezado: I played closed beta for TSW and am currently playing classic EQ1. I have both a rogue (for grouping) and a druid (for farming/soloing). Can you please point out the difference between the repetition in TSW's combat and the repetition in EQ1's combat? In TSW I have multiple builds so I need different builders or combinations of builders based on their effects and different finishers for the same reasons. In EQ1 for the druid I'm not quite to a level for quad-kiting so it's either DoT kiting or root & rot both of which I find exactly as repetitive (if not moreso) than TSW.
If it's a question of difficulty then again I ask what the difference is that you're seeing because in TSW Blue Mountain and beyond I've found combat to actually be more difficult than what I find in EQ1 after level 15 or so; the difference being I'm more than adequate starting out in TSW whereas in EQ1 I'm extremely gimped in all areas until mid-teens when I've gathered some key spells/abilities (and preferably gear) and then things become much easier- especially if I beg for some buffs at EC tunnel before going on my way.
Is there a specific game you refer to from 1999-2005 that was so much better for combat?
Hmm I didn't compare repetitive functions of now to older classic mmorpg's, please highlight and point that out thanks. I played EQ for years and still do sometimes, and I can tell you it is not as repetitive or more than TSW if that is your comparison. If you are applying dots in a repetitive fashion in EQ before the dot timer ends, then you are not doing it right. You apply the dots right before they are about to expire, which if you got 3 dots up and the average time before all 3 ends is 45 seconds for example you are not pushing anymore dots for that time, you may hit a couple DD's but then they are also not spamable in EQ as you say.
Bezado: I played closed beta for TSW and am currently playing classic EQ1. I have both a rogue (for grouping) and a druid (for farming/soloing). Can you please point out the difference between the repetition in TSW's combat and the repetition in EQ1's combat? In TSW I have multiple builds so I need different builders or combinations of builders based on their effects and different finishers for the same reasons. In EQ1 for the druid I'm not quite to a level for quad-kiting so it's either DoT kiting or root & rot both of which I find exactly as repetitive (if not moreso) than TSW.
If it's a question of difficulty then again I ask what the difference is that you're seeing because in TSW Blue Mountain and beyond I've found combat to actually be more difficult than what I find in EQ1 after level 15 or so; the difference being I'm more than adequate starting out in TSW whereas in EQ1 I'm extremely gimped in all areas until mid-teens when I've gathered some key spells/abilities (and preferably gear) and then things become much easier- especially if I beg for some buffs at EC tunnel before going on my way.
Is there a specific game you refer to from 1999-2005 that was so much better for combat?
I would love to know this too because being an EQ vet myself and having played numerous other mmos I have yet to see a solid example provided.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Originally posted by Praetalus Originally posted by bezadoOriginally posted by PraetalusOriginally posted by bezadoOriginally posted by colddog04Please... no more Secret World combat talk... Some people like it, some people don't.There has to be another thread you could have pushed this into..
Well yeah it really doesn't matter. The only ones who like it are this generation of mmorpg players who like things easy and very very straight forward. Push this button and then this one repeatedly, I compare them in terms of experience as having no real experience. All they know is the last 5 years of online gaming is what is good to them, horrible direction mmorpg are taking. More toward the easy mode repetitive bullshit.Oh by the way it is okay to voice your comment or concerns on a mmorpg here, even if others may have already pointed it out, it still doesn't mean my opinion doesn't count just because others have mentioned it before, thanks. The people who like it are "this" generation of mmorpg players who like things easy?First... you shouldn't take your review or opinion and pin it to anyone other then you. I am really enjoying the combat and skill system. I'm 31 and have been playing mmo's for over 10 years. I play with a group of 5 other players who have been playing mmo's as long if not longer. We are not exactly "this" generation of mmorpg players as we cut our teetch in Shadowbane, AO, AC and DAOC. We like it cause we like it. If we didn't, we wouldn't play it. You may not like it, but don't put words into others mouths or act like it's a certain generation of players who like the combat.... cause you're incorrect, as I just showed. Yes you're correct, I left out the word most in my post and will edit to fix it, thanks for catching that. While some older players like it, I think maybe and you can tell us is it due to being easy for you that you just looking for something simple now that you went the whole gamut of mmorpg's? For me and I am 33 now I feel like I hate the easy mode and lackluster appeal of these types, and I can see the point how some older players, of my generation might like the easy mode now too, could be that it just grew on them and they joined that side or just want a break from their old favs.Look my friend... you're caught in the rose tinted glasses. I was too. Take Shadowbane for example. I have all these grand memories of the game, but when it comes down to it... we stood around farming f'n ettins and lizzards for hours on end farming for our city and gaining levels to defend it. Talk about easy? It was ridiculously easy; However... the hard part of the game was making a good character. Just like TSW. You have a lot at your fingertips and it's pretty easy to screw up once you get to higher areas of the game.
And don't get me started on eq1, DAOC, Asheron's Call 2, Ultima.... whatever. I mean shit.. Please enlighten me on where these games were "hard". They weren't. It was just a different time in our lives. Fact. Go play DAOC again. It's still running and I know cause I was playing it not long ago. It sucks. I liked it back then, but now... just sucks.
Perhaps I just suck, but I found myself dying more in TSW then I have in any other game I've played recently due to a poor build. Again, please show me the game you're talking about that was so hard. I'm curious.
It is probably irrelevant anyway because each to their own I guess. But if you are saying EQ, AC, DAOC, UO, just to name a few, that they were not hard starting out and even playing for the first 3 years at least then you my friend have a really poor understanding of what difficulty is. Those were hard games, they really did challenge you, as with these mmorpg's today are just way to easy and linear. Let me just say I am not picking an argument, rather some people like yourself will find they have no problems with current mmorpg's and find they like them. That is fine, I did edit my last post and put the "most of" in there as it was left out.
I believe another thread is started by someone else and it has a few good points of the generational gap of mmorpg players and pretty much has a lot of others saying the same thing in what I believe as well.
I don't understand why everyone is so defensive about the combat in TSW. It's pretty terrible. To say "it's new" is sort of laughable and gives you away as a fanboy. From my perspective they weren't even trying to hide that combat was not a priority for them.
Combat in TSW = tab to a target, hit some number keys.
As far as tha animations go, they are off. They don't look fluid, they don't make sense half the time.
TSW has a lot going for it, the only sad part is that it's a very small portion of the game currently. If the vast majority of the game was investigation it would have been a lot better. I don't think it's fair to jump on people for critisizing the combat in this game. This combat in this game was done over 10 years ago. It is far from new.
The diehards are going to have to give a little and come to terms with the negative perceptions. If I'd resigned myself to Totalbiscuit's intro videos for example, I would have stopped looking, then and there.
There are positive aspects to this game that soften the blow, absolutely. I myself am just waiting on more content, fixed animations, improved character creator and a deal on the box price. I'm just done jumping straight into theme park releases.
Originally posted by gaugemew I don't understand why everyone is so defensive about the combat in TSW. It's pretty terrible. To say "it's new" is sort of laughable and gives you away as a fanboy. From my perspective they weren't even trying to hide that combat was not a priority for them.Combat in TSW = tab to a target, hit some number keys. As far as tha animations go, they are off. They don't look fluid, they don't make sense half the time. TSW has a lot going for it, the only sad part is that it's a very small portion of the game currently. If the vast majority of the game was investigation it would have been a lot better. I don't think it's fair to jump on people for critisizing the combat in this game. This combat in this game was done over 10 years ago. It is far from new.
Thank you, and as much as it sucks to say I think this one will only last another 5 months max before going F2P just because it has only the quest and storyline going for it. Like many have said and myself here in this thread, combat and animations is terrible.
Originally posted by ShakyMo Why is it better combat than wow?
Because you are watching the combat, not watching gcd and cast bars. Because you have to move. Because you can't automate it. Because you have to use your surroundings. Because you have to avoid getting swarmed due to collision detection.
TBH I like WoWs combat alot better...The animations are far superior and I just find it more fun (and Im not a wow fan)...... TSW combat just never felt right.....I didnt like fighting a group of 4 zombies and watching the oens off to the side die when it looks like I wasnt even hitting them......ALso if 4 zombies were beating on me I think I'd take alot more damage than I did in TSW.
granted i only finished up kingsmouth and didnt really continue I love the environment with the whole left4dead like zone, which im sure changes later on. But if you go to the offical forums and even here you see so much negativity from fans of this game towards people especially in builds. This games combat and skill wheel are lacking period as they force you by mid to end game into cookie cutter builds far less viable than most tradiitional mmorpgs to date. Im seriously not sure what the big deal is with the whole skill wheel as its more confusion then it is possitive. Comments like your build is bad go back and rerun quests or you have to take this build or switch to this one makes any normal gamer besides the elitist or min / maxers cring. Some of us just want to enjoy a game and not be punished by wanting to say play pistols and magic abilities? I spent more time researching builds in this game then i actually did playing it so i didnt gimp myself and so far lets see its boils down to like maybe 4 or 5 builds for combat once you leave the savage coast. Combat in this game is not all that fun its lackluster and so is the entire system behind it. They need to severely fix combat annimations , bugs with combat abilities not firing off in certain skill keys , and the entire wheel itself.
Sorry but total freedom means you dont have to take a cookie cutter build to survive. All weapons should be on equal footing in terms of relivence and synergy not this one goes with this one , that with that crap. Its funny though instead of helping others whom give up on this game the regular forums and here to players are constantly telling them they are terrible or this game isnt for them etc ....Way to shoot your own community in the foot!
Actually yes, it pretty much is. Take any mmorpg gamer 1999-2005 and they have a affinity for knowing what is good or bad based on experience from playing multiple good mmorpg titles, let alone we didn't even get into non mmorpg's of normal games of anyone who played games prior to 1999. You see this game generation pretty much came up from the WOW period, young kids pretty much who experienced if you will the easy mode of mmorpg's. Now everything is easy and they like that, they are simple minded easy to please gamers. Nothing wrong with that if you like farmville.
Bezado: I played closed beta for TSW and am currently playing classic EQ1. I have both a rogue (for grouping) and a druid (for farming/soloing). Can you please point out the difference between the repetition in TSW's combat and the repetition in EQ1's combat? In TSW I have multiple builds so I need different builders or combinations of builders based on their effects and different finishers for the same reasons. In EQ1 for the druid I'm not quite to a level for quad-kiting so it's either DoT kiting or root & rot both of which I find exactly as repetitive (if not moreso) than TSW.
If it's a question of difficulty then again I ask what the difference is that you're seeing because in TSW Blue Mountain and beyond I've found combat to actually be more difficult than what I find in EQ1 after level 15 or so; the difference being I'm more than adequate starting out in TSW whereas in EQ1 I'm extremely gimped in all areas until mid-teens when I've gathered some key spells/abilities (and preferably gear) and then things become much easier- especially if I beg for some buffs at EC tunnel before going on my way.
Is there a specific game you refer to from 1999-2005 that was so much better for combat?
Hmm I didn't compare repetitive functions of now to older classic mmorpg's, please highlight and point that out thanks. I played EQ for years and still do sometimes, and I can tell you it is not as repetitive or more than TSW if that is your comparison. If you are applying dots in a repetitive fashion in EQ before the dot timer ends, then you are not doing it right. You apply the dots right before they are about to expire, which if you got 3 dots up and the average time before all 3 ends is 45 seconds for example you are not pushing anymore dots for that time, you may hit a couple DD's but then they are also not spamable in EQ as you say.
Okay, not comparing repetition, got it.
So then where is the increased difficulty you speak of? Is it just in the number of people necessary for content? Is it because there's an adequate tutorial in modern MMOs where in the past you just had to figure it out?
You mentioned four older games- EQ1, AC1, UO, and DAOC- UO is a sandbox game so I'm not sure that its difficulty can even be judged versus a themepark game. I ask regarding EQ1 because it's the one of the remaining three I have any amount of time spent in.
Again, please provide an example of where you find EQ1's combat more difficult because so far you've made assertions but pointed out no concrete reasons. At this point it does truly sound like you have the nostalgia goggles on.
I don't understand why everyone is so defensive about the combat in TSW. It's pretty terrible. To say "it's new" is sort of laughable and gives you away as a fanboy. From my perspective they weren't even trying to hide that combat was not a priority for them.
Combat in TSW = tab to a target, hit some number keys.
As far as tha animations go, they are off. They don't look fluid, they don't make sense half the time.
TSW has a lot going for it, the only sad part is that it's a very small portion of the game currently. If the vast majority of the game was investigation it would have been a lot better. I don't think it's fair to jump on people for critisizing the combat in this game. This combat in this game was done over 10 years ago. It is far from new.
Who is saying it is new? I haven't really seen this. Most are just tired of hearing the whole combat is too simple. It is pretty much the same as any mmo. If you want to say it isn't innovative or unique then I would have to agree. If you want to say the animations are laughably bad or simply completely lackluster I would have to agree.
But this argument? It's a total bandwagon soapbox cliche and unless you think the same of all mmos you're essentially full of it.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Poster 1: "Combat in TSW is easy mode, not like in the old days"
Poster 2: "Yeah really ? I was there in the old days too, and it was pretty much the same actually"
Poster 1: "Nope, it was harder in the old days. If you don't agree, you clearly were playing it wrong in the old days"
This pretty much sums it up XD
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
The only thing I kind of dislike about the combat in TSW, besides the animations, is the fact that you have to spam your builder ability. At least in GW2 I can set 1 skill to auto attack. In TSW I have to spam it. It gets old. I had the same issue with SWTOR. We need to be able to set certain abilities to auto attack, in my opinion.
The combat doesnt suck. Ok it might not be super challenging as wow pvp but in pve then i find tsw more fun as i change specs for different situations. And aerowyn shows early pve builds here and there is nothing wrong here. Maybe most here Think of themselves as wow gladiators
Originally posted by pierth Again, please provide an example of where you find EQ1's combat more difficult because so far you've made assertions but pointed out no concrete reasons. At this point it does truly sound like you have the nostalgia goggles on.
Sure, for one EQ1 did not have a linear gameplay style, and secondly it could not be played with lots of distractions. EQ1 you actually had to think, the same could not be said for the melee toons, but for the casters for example. Most of EQ content was setup for group play, and the mobs were geared towards your armor and level. Also spells were not just given to you, as you had to work for everything. Progression = difficulty. You have to look at it in terms of release years and not now, you had a very hard time playing these games as a solo player back then vs mmorpg's today.
EQ is much more easier now than it was in the first few years that I was comparing, remember I said that older generation who played such and such, meaning it was during those years and not focused on now. EQ now is really easy, mercenaries for one made the game seriously easy, but then you got what I call easy mode gear that they put in to help the players. Also gear and weapons were not easily obtainable in those games as a solo player, so for instance in EQ it was extremely difficult to get good items solo if not impossible, and again this is comparing the old years and not how it is today. Because over the years the older classics became easier, as time went on patches, as time went on they also dumbed them down making them easier for everyone, essentially jumping on the easy mode bandwagon.
Where was I, oh yes, if you look at back then you could not just get everything and make things easier for you. It took days if not months to get good items, and the difficulty was really high because the mobs could kill you easily without help or if you were not geared right to survive. Plus they had corpse runs in EQ. Look at UO how difficult that was back then prior till 2006 I would say. Also AC, that game was freaking unreal for how difficult it was, and now it is cake.
The problem I think you had with my comments is that you overshadowed your perception with how it is now vs how it was then. Remember, again they changed these classics to reflect the easy mode of today and a lot of them became easier to play.
One main EQ combat trait that made the game harder was the balance. You got hit really hard for having lower AC (armor class) and with magics (resists were lower back then) and also hit box was a lot smaller back then, you pretty much can hit further away now, back then you had to be up on top the mob very close and it added a more dangerous aspect. Also the original EQ ui gave you a 8 inch square window to look through for the game world, that made things even more difficult. So many things to list but you now have an idea. Plus you had more players back then who actually knew how to socialize correctly, by that I mean they were sociable and now you would be lucky if someone comes up to you and says hello want to group up.
Originally posted by gaugemew I don't understand why everyone is so defensive about the combat in TSW. It's pretty terrible. To say "it's new" is sort of laughable and gives you away as a fanboy. From my perspective they weren't even trying to hide that combat was not a priority for them.
Combat in TSW = tab to a target, hit some number keys.
As far as tha animations go, they are off. They don't look fluid, they don't make sense half the time.
TSW has a lot going for it, the only sad part is that it's a very small portion of the game currently. If the vast majority of the game was investigation it would have been a lot better. I don't think it's fair to jump on people for critisizing the combat in this game. This combat in this game was done over 10 years ago. It is far from new.
Thank you, and as much as it sucks to say I think this one will only last another 5 months max before going F2P just because it has only the quest and storyline going for it. Like many have said and myself here in this thread, combat and animations is terrible.
Hmmm, perhaps I'm off the mark, but most of the comments I've seen on this site about the game are positive... The only person who really agrees with you is a documented TSW hater - as he's someone who has planted a flag with gw2. I'm not defending the game because I'm some sort of Funcom "fan". I was a fan of AO - but hated Conan. I don't like or dislike a game based on the Developer, but rather the game itself. Myself and many others are having fun playing. If you are not, that's perfectly fine.. All I was saying, was don't try to make it a generation thing, cause it's not. You have corrected your post to say most... however, most of the old school people that have commented... all but you I believe disagree with you. So perhaps you're not the "most". You're more in with the Lesser.
Originally posted by pierth Again, please provide an example of where you find EQ1's combat more difficult because so far you've made assertions but pointed out no concrete reasons. At this point it does truly sound like you have the nostalgia goggles on.
Sure, for one EQ1 did not have a linear gameplay style, and secondly it could not be played with lots of distractions. EQ1 you actually had to think, the same could not be said for the melee toons, but for the casters for example. Most of EQ content was setup for group play, and the mobs were geared towards your armor and level. Also spells were not just given to you, as you had to work for everything. Progression = difficulty. You have to look at it in terms of release years and not now, you had a very hard time playing these games as a solo player back then vs mmorpg's today.
EQ is much more easier now than it was in the first few years that I was comparing, remember I said that older generation who played such and such, meaning it was during those years and not focused on now. EQ now is really easy, mercenaries for one made the game seriously easy, but then you got what I call easy mode gear that they put in to help the players. Also gear and weapons were not easily obtainable in those games as a solo player, so for instance in EQ it was extremely difficult to get good items solo if not impossible, and again this is comparing the old years and not how it is today. Because over the years the older classics became easier, as time went on patches, as time went on they also dumbed them down making them easier for everyone, essentially jumping on the easy mode bandwagon.
Where was I, oh yeas, if you look at back then you could not just get everything and make things easier for you. It took days if not months to get good items, and the difficulty was really high because the mobs could kill you easily without help or if you were not geared right to survive. Plus they had corpse runs in EQ. Look at UO how difficult that was back then prior till 2006 I would say. Also AC, that game was freaking unreal for how difficult it was, and now it is cake.
The problem I think you had with my comments is that you overshadowed your perception with how it is now vs how it was then. Remember, again they changed these classics to reflect the easy mode of today and a lot of them became easier to play.
One main EQ combat trait that made the game harder was the balance. You got hit really hard for having lower AC (armor class) and with magics (resists were lower back then) and also hit box was a lot smaller back then, you pretty much can hit further away now, back then you had to be up on top the mob very close and it added a more dangerous aspect. Also the original EQ ui gave you a 8 inch square window to look through for the game world, that made things even more difficult. So many things to list but you now have an idea. Plus you had more players back then who actually knew how to socialize correctly, by that I mean they were sociable and now you would be lucky if someone comes up to you and says hello want to group up.
So everything was better 10 years ago???? So you want a super grindy difficult game. Thats Nice for you. They Made wow easy and it got t hem 12 mill subs, so what u Think the masses prefer?
Originally posted by bezado Originally posted by gaugemew I don't understand why everyone is so defensive about the combat in TSW. It's pretty terrible. To say "it's new" is sort of laughable and gives you away as a fanboy. From my perspective they weren't even trying to hide that combat was not a priority for them.Combat in TSW = tab to a target, hit some number keys. As far as tha animations go, they are off. They don't look fluid, they don't make sense half the time.TSW has a lot going for it, the only sad part is that it's a very small portion of the game currently. If the vast majority of the game was investigation it would have been a lot better. I don't think it's fair to jump on people for critisizing the combat in this game. This combat in this game was done over 10 years ago. It is far from new.
Thank you, and as much as it sucks to say I think this one will only last another 5 months max before going F2P just because it has only the quest and storyline going for it. Like many have said and myself here in this thread, combat and animations is terrible.
Hmmm, perhaps I'm off the mark, but most of the comments I've seen on this site about the game are positive... The only person who really agrees with you is a documented TSW hater - as he's someone who has planted a flag with gw2. I'm not defending the game because I'm some sort of Funcom "fan". I was a fan of AO - but hated Conan. I don't like or dislike a game based on the Developer, but rather the game itself. Myself and many others are having fun playing. If you are not, that's perfectly fine.. All I was saying, was don't try to make it a generation thing, cause it's not. You have corrected your post to say most... however, most of the old school people that have commented... all but you I believe disagree with you. So perhaps you're not the "most". You're more in with the Lesser.
I 2 don t understand why people bring up the f2p card after 1 week. It all depends on funcom and their content updates. The say they got 5 years of content in progress so i unlike the haters will give funcom a couple months to prove them wrong
Originally posted by Orphes You were talking about the game back then, so yes back then.
Gear was incredibly hard to get back then, the good stuff required lots either a group or large scale raids of 100 people or more, as years went on the level of difficulty to obtain such gear resulted in fewer players to do so. From early years of 100+ raids to fewer than 15 now for example. And today's mmorpg's the gear is essentially easy to get solo, you get good gear that allows you to go from front to end game just by soloing, or if they got a buy to win button then you do that.
TSW is more of a solo or duo type of gear game, where you can obtain everything super easy to advance, while some of us would rather it be more difficult to obtain gear that gave you an even or more than even advantage every step of difficulty you go up, and by that I mean they should have a few levels where you do not get gear upgrades that give you an even or advantage for the same level mobs you are on. They make these games way to easy for the player to reach max game, why, what is the point. Slow it down for the player so they can enjoy it longer. *cough* SWTOR, don't get me started about that crap.
Comments
So what you're saying is that the majority of modern MMO players will actually like the TSW combat ?
That's high praise indeed
Actually yes, it pretty much is. Take any mmorpg gamer 1999-2005 and they have a affinity for knowing what is good or bad based on experience from playing multiple good mmorpg titles, let alone we didn't even get into non mmorpg's of normal games of anyone who played games prior to 1999. You see this game generation pretty much came up from the WOW period, young kids pretty much who experienced if you will the easy mode of mmorpg's. Now everything is easy and they like that, they are simple minded easy to please gamers. Nothing wrong with that if you like farmville.
Bezado: I played closed beta for TSW and am currently playing classic EQ1. I have both a rogue (for grouping) and a druid (for farming/soloing). Can you please point out the difference between the repetition in TSW's combat and the repetition in EQ1's combat? In TSW I have multiple builds so I need different builders or combinations of builders based on their effects and different finishers for the same reasons. In EQ1 for the druid I'm not quite to a level for quad-kiting so it's either DoT kiting or root & rot both of which I find exactly as repetitive (if not moreso) than TSW.
If it's a question of difficulty then again I ask what the difference is that you're seeing because in TSW Blue Mountain and beyond I've found combat to actually be more difficult than what I find in EQ1 after level 15 or so; the difference being I'm more than adequate starting out in TSW whereas in EQ1 I'm extremely gimped in all areas until mid-teens when I've gathered some key spells/abilities (and preferably gear) and then things become much easier- especially if I beg for some buffs at EC tunnel before going on my way.
Is there a specific game you refer to from 1999-2005 that was so much better for combat?
Hmm I didn't compare repetitive functions of now to older classic mmorpg's, please highlight and point that out thanks. I played EQ for years and still do sometimes, and I can tell you it is not as repetitive or more than TSW if that is your comparison. If you are applying dots in a repetitive fashion in EQ before the dot timer ends, then you are not doing it right. You apply the dots right before they are about to expire, which if you got 3 dots up and the average time before all 3 ends is 45 seconds for example you are not pushing anymore dots for that time, you may hit a couple DD's but then they are also not spamable in EQ as you say.
I would love to know this too because being an EQ vet myself and having played numerous other mmos I have yet to see a solid example provided.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
If combat was enough to keep an MMO interesting, everyone would be playing Tera.
The people who like it are "this" generation of mmorpg players who like things easy? First... you shouldn't take your review or opinion and pin it to anyone other then you. I am really enjoying the combat and skill system. I'm 31 and have been playing mmo's for over 10 years. I play with a group of 5 other players who have been playing mmo's as long if not longer. We are not exactly "this" generation of mmorpg players as we cut our teetch in Shadowbane, AO, AC and DAOC. We like it cause we like it. If we didn't, we wouldn't play it. You may not like it, but don't put words into others mouths or act like it's a certain generation of players who like the combat.... cause you're incorrect, as I just showed.
Yes you're correct, I left out the word most in my post and will edit to fix it, thanks for catching that. While some older players like it, I think maybe and you can tell us is it due to being easy for you that you just looking for something simple now that you went the whole gamut of mmorpg's? For me and I am 33 now I feel like I hate the easy mode and lackluster appeal of these types, and I can see the point how some older players, of my generation might like the easy mode now too, could be that it just grew on them and they joined that side or just want a break from their old favs.
Look my friend... you're caught in the rose tinted glasses. I was too. Take Shadowbane for example. I have all these grand memories of the game, but when it comes down to it... we stood around farming f'n ettins and lizzards for hours on end farming for our city and gaining levels to defend it. Talk about easy? It was ridiculously easy; However... the hard part of the game was making a good character. Just like TSW. You have a lot at your fingertips and it's pretty easy to screw up once you get to higher areas of the game.
And don't get me started on eq1, DAOC, Asheron's Call 2, Ultima.... whatever. I mean shit.. Please enlighten me on where these games were "hard". They weren't. It was just a different time in our lives. Fact. Go play DAOC again. It's still running and I know cause I was playing it not long ago. It sucks. I liked it back then, but now... just sucks.
Perhaps I just suck, but I found myself dying more in TSW then I have in any other game I've played recently due to a poor build. Again, please show me the game you're talking about that was so hard. I'm curious.
It is probably irrelevant anyway because each to their own I guess. But if you are saying EQ, AC, DAOC, UO, just to name a few, that they were not hard starting out and even playing for the first 3 years at least then you my friend have a really poor understanding of what difficulty is. Those were hard games, they really did challenge you, as with these mmorpg's today are just way to easy and linear. Let me just say I am not picking an argument, rather some people like yourself will find they have no problems with current mmorpg's and find they like them. That is fine, I did edit my last post and put the "most of" in there as it was left out.
I believe another thread is started by someone else and it has a few good points of the generational gap of mmorpg players and pretty much has a lot of others saying the same thing in what I believe as well.
I don't understand why everyone is so defensive about the combat in TSW. It's pretty terrible. To say "it's new" is sort of laughable and gives you away as a fanboy. From my perspective they weren't even trying to hide that combat was not a priority for them.
Combat in TSW = tab to a target, hit some number keys.
As far as tha animations go, they are off. They don't look fluid, they don't make sense half the time.
TSW has a lot going for it, the only sad part is that it's a very small portion of the game currently. If the vast majority of the game was investigation it would have been a lot better. I don't think it's fair to jump on people for critisizing the combat in this game. This combat in this game was done over 10 years ago. It is far from new.
The diehards are going to have to give a little and come to terms with the negative perceptions. If I'd resigned myself to Totalbiscuit's intro videos for example, I would have stopped looking, then and there.
There are positive aspects to this game that soften the blow, absolutely. I myself am just waiting on more content, fixed animations, improved character creator and a deal on the box price. I'm just done jumping straight into theme park releases.
Thank you, and as much as it sucks to say I think this one will only last another 5 months max before going F2P just because it has only the quest and storyline going for it. Like many have said and myself here in this thread, combat and animations is terrible.
TBH I like WoWs combat alot better...The animations are far superior and I just find it more fun (and Im not a wow fan)...... TSW combat just never felt right.....I didnt like fighting a group of 4 zombies and watching the oens off to the side die when it looks like I wasnt even hitting them......ALso if 4 zombies were beating on me I think I'd take alot more damage than I did in TSW.
This thread is hilarious !
Poster 1: "Combat in TSW is easy mode, not like in the old days"
Poster 2: "Yeah really ? I was there in the old days too, and it was pretty much the same actually"
Poster 1: "Nope, it was harder in the old days. If you don't agree, you clearly were playing it wrong in the old days"
The poor combat is part of the reason I can't stand the game. I can't remember myself having fun while playing, either.
granted i only finished up kingsmouth and didnt really continue I love the environment with the whole left4dead like zone, which im sure changes later on. But if you go to the offical forums and even here you see so much negativity from fans of this game towards people especially in builds. This games combat and skill wheel are lacking period as they force you by mid to end game into cookie cutter builds far less viable than most tradiitional mmorpgs to date. Im seriously not sure what the big deal is with the whole skill wheel as its more confusion then it is possitive. Comments like your build is bad go back and rerun quests or you have to take this build or switch to this one makes any normal gamer besides the elitist or min / maxers cring. Some of us just want to enjoy a game and not be punished by wanting to say play pistols and magic abilities? I spent more time researching builds in this game then i actually did playing it so i didnt gimp myself and so far lets see its boils down to like maybe 4 or 5 builds for combat once you leave the savage coast. Combat in this game is not all that fun its lackluster and so is the entire system behind it. They need to severely fix combat annimations , bugs with combat abilities not firing off in certain skill keys , and the entire wheel itself.
Sorry but total freedom means you dont have to take a cookie cutter build to survive. All weapons should be on equal footing in terms of relivence and synergy not this one goes with this one , that with that crap. Its funny though instead of helping others whom give up on this game the regular forums and here to players are constantly telling them they are terrible or this game isnt for them etc ....Way to shoot your own community in the foot!
Okay, not comparing repetition, got it.
So then where is the increased difficulty you speak of? Is it just in the number of people necessary for content? Is it because there's an adequate tutorial in modern MMOs where in the past you just had to figure it out?
You mentioned four older games- EQ1, AC1, UO, and DAOC- UO is a sandbox game so I'm not sure that its difficulty can even be judged versus a themepark game. I ask regarding EQ1 because it's the one of the remaining three I have any amount of time spent in.
Again, please provide an example of where you find EQ1's combat more difficult because so far you've made assertions but pointed out no concrete reasons. At this point it does truly sound like you have the nostalgia goggles on.
Who is saying it is new? I haven't really seen this. Most are just tired of hearing the whole combat is too simple. It is pretty much the same as any mmo. If you want to say it isn't innovative or unique then I would have to agree. If you want to say the animations are laughably bad or simply completely lackluster I would have to agree.
But this argument? It's a total bandwagon soapbox cliche and unless you think the same of all mmos you're essentially full of it.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
This pretty much sums it up XD
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
The only thing I kind of dislike about the combat in TSW, besides the animations, is the fact that you have to spam your builder ability. At least in GW2 I can set 1 skill to auto attack. In TSW I have to spam it. It gets old. I had the same issue with SWTOR. We need to be able to set certain abilities to auto attack, in my opinion.
Why is it more easy than other mmos?
(Old as new.)
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
Sure, for one EQ1 did not have a linear gameplay style, and secondly it could not be played with lots of distractions. EQ1 you actually had to think, the same could not be said for the melee toons, but for the casters for example. Most of EQ content was setup for group play, and the mobs were geared towards your armor and level. Also spells were not just given to you, as you had to work for everything. Progression = difficulty. You have to look at it in terms of release years and not now, you had a very hard time playing these games as a solo player back then vs mmorpg's today.
EQ is much more easier now than it was in the first few years that I was comparing, remember I said that older generation who played such and such, meaning it was during those years and not focused on now. EQ now is really easy, mercenaries for one made the game seriously easy, but then you got what I call easy mode gear that they put in to help the players. Also gear and weapons were not easily obtainable in those games as a solo player, so for instance in EQ it was extremely difficult to get good items solo if not impossible, and again this is comparing the old years and not how it is today. Because over the years the older classics became easier, as time went on patches, as time went on they also dumbed them down making them easier for everyone, essentially jumping on the easy mode bandwagon.
Where was I, oh yes, if you look at back then you could not just get everything and make things easier for you. It took days if not months to get good items, and the difficulty was really high because the mobs could kill you easily without help or if you were not geared right to survive. Plus they had corpse runs in EQ. Look at UO how difficult that was back then prior till 2006 I would say. Also AC, that game was freaking unreal for how difficult it was, and now it is cake.
The problem I think you had with my comments is that you overshadowed your perception with how it is now vs how it was then. Remember, again they changed these classics to reflect the easy mode of today and a lot of them became easier to play.
One main EQ combat trait that made the game harder was the balance. You got hit really hard for having lower AC (armor class) and with magics (resists were lower back then) and also hit box was a lot smaller back then, you pretty much can hit further away now, back then you had to be up on top the mob very close and it added a more dangerous aspect. Also the original EQ ui gave you a 8 inch square window to look through for the game world, that made things even more difficult. So many things to list but you now have an idea. Plus you had more players back then who actually knew how to socialize correctly, by that I mean they were sociable and now you would be lucky if someone comes up to you and says hello want to group up.
So if I got the right gear EQ was made easier aswell?
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
As to what? Made easier now or back then? I am unsure what you are saying.
You were talking about the game back then, so yes back then.
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
Hmmm, perhaps I'm off the mark, but most of the comments I've seen on this site about the game are positive... The only person who really agrees with you is a documented TSW hater - as he's someone who has planted a flag with gw2. I'm not defending the game because I'm some sort of Funcom "fan". I was a fan of AO - but hated Conan. I don't like or dislike a game based on the Developer, but rather the game itself. Myself and many others are having fun playing. If you are not, that's perfectly fine.. All I was saying, was don't try to make it a generation thing, cause it's not. You have corrected your post to say most... however, most of the old school people that have commented... all but you I believe disagree with you. So perhaps you're not the "most". You're more in with the Lesser.
Sure, for one EQ1 did not have a linear gameplay style, and secondly it could not be played with lots of distractions. EQ1 you actually had to think, the same could not be said for the melee toons, but for the casters for example. Most of EQ content was setup for group play, and the mobs were geared towards your armor and level. Also spells were not just given to you, as you had to work for everything. Progression = difficulty. You have to look at it in terms of release years and not now, you had a very hard time playing these games as a solo player back then vs mmorpg's today.
EQ is much more easier now than it was in the first few years that I was comparing, remember I said that older generation who played such and such, meaning it was during those years and not focused on now. EQ now is really easy, mercenaries for one made the game seriously easy, but then you got what I call easy mode gear that they put in to help the players. Also gear and weapons were not easily obtainable in those games as a solo player, so for instance in EQ it was extremely difficult to get good items solo if not impossible, and again this is comparing the old years and not how it is today. Because over the years the older classics became easier, as time went on patches, as time went on they also dumbed them down making them easier for everyone, essentially jumping on the easy mode bandwagon.
Where was I, oh yeas, if you look at back then you could not just get everything and make things easier for you. It took days if not months to get good items, and the difficulty was really high because the mobs could kill you easily without help or if you were not geared right to survive. Plus they had corpse runs in EQ. Look at UO how difficult that was back then prior till 2006 I would say. Also AC, that game was freaking unreal for how difficult it was, and now it is cake.
The problem I think you had with my comments is that you overshadowed your perception with how it is now vs how it was then. Remember, again they changed these classics to reflect the easy mode of today and a lot of them became easier to play.
One main EQ combat trait that made the game harder was the balance. You got hit really hard for having lower AC (armor class) and with magics (resists were lower back then) and also hit box was a lot smaller back then, you pretty much can hit further away now, back then you had to be up on top the mob very close and it added a more dangerous aspect. Also the original EQ ui gave you a 8 inch square window to look through for the game world, that made things even more difficult. So many things to list but you now have an idea. Plus you had more players back then who actually knew how to socialize correctly, by that I mean they were sociable and now you would be lucky if someone comes up to you and says hello want to group up.
So everything was better 10 years ago???? So you want a super grindy difficult game. Thats Nice for you. They Made wow easy and it got t hem 12 mill subs, so what u Think the masses prefer?Thank you, and as much as it sucks to say I think this one will only last another 5 months max before going F2P just because it has only the quest and storyline going for it. Like many have said and myself here in this thread, combat and animations is terrible.
Hmmm, perhaps I'm off the mark, but most of the comments I've seen on this site about the game are positive... The only person who really agrees with you is a documented TSW hater - as he's someone who has planted a flag with gw2. I'm not defending the game because I'm some sort of Funcom "fan". I was a fan of AO - but hated Conan. I don't like or dislike a game based on the Developer, but rather the game itself. Myself and many others are having fun playing. If you are not, that's perfectly fine.. All I was saying, was don't try to make it a generation thing, cause it's not. You have corrected your post to say most... however, most of the old school people that have commented... all but you I believe disagree with you. So perhaps you're not the "most". You're more in with the Lesser.
I 2 don t understand why people bring up the f2p card after 1 week. It all depends on funcom and their content updates. The say they got 5 years of content in progress so i unlike the haters will give funcom a couple months to prove them wrongGear was incredibly hard to get back then, the good stuff required lots either a group or large scale raids of 100 people or more, as years went on the level of difficulty to obtain such gear resulted in fewer players to do so. From early years of 100+ raids to fewer than 15 now for example. And today's mmorpg's the gear is essentially easy to get solo, you get good gear that allows you to go from front to end game just by soloing, or if they got a buy to win button then you do that.
TSW is more of a solo or duo type of gear game, where you can obtain everything super easy to advance, while some of us would rather it be more difficult to obtain gear that gave you an even or more than even advantage every step of difficulty you go up, and by that I mean they should have a few levels where you do not get gear upgrades that give you an even or advantage for the same level mobs you are on. They make these games way to easy for the player to reach max game, why, what is the point. Slow it down for the player so they can enjoy it longer. *cough* SWTOR, don't get me started about that crap.