isnt it kinda wrong to say playing a game only needs you to move a mouse and push some buttons ? there is a lot of stuff you have to do at the same time, with the right timing, while seeing whats going on on the screen. Sure its all just on the screen and doesnt need any physical excerise whatsoever, but if its so easy why isnt everyone good at it, like sitting on a couch. I think your problem is, that it doesnt have any real use and it can be done by fat kids (oh noes). But why do skills have to be useful ? Sport skills arent really useful either, yeah i know they need physical fitness. Don't take it the wrong way KingGator but you sound like some grumpy old man who cant accept/understand new things coming with the newer generations. Or maybe you are simply intolerant to everything nerd related
I think players that underperform in PVP will gravitate over time to the WvWvW more and it won't be an issue. Most will play in that regardless, just because that's where you get exp/cash etc for playing unlike sPvP
I'm not saying "LOL ONLY BADS PLAY WvW" or anything like that, just that it's easier to blend in with the crowd, follow a big group and participate with them etc. Someone that isn't really any good at pvp can still make a meaningful contribution in a big fight. They still hit people and do damage, they still take damage that would have been aimed at someone else instead, they still inflict debuffs that affect people etc.
Let me start off by saying im looking forward to a skill based game. No more hearing "you suck baddie, your geared out". But I was wondering how the unskilled population (probably 35%) would take the game.
Now everyone has been in a guild where you got a few unskilled players (downright horrible) in the guild at pvp. Of course you would never say that to them or hurt there feelings but you still think it. Well alot of them can still be commited to the game and work hard to get gear because they really want to be better but unfortunatly you can only learn so much "skill" the rest is pretty much flat out talent for games. I feel like it does hurt those players alot because they are kinda stuck in that no mans land. At least if they got gear they could become almost average and contribute to a team and feel like they arn't as bad as they are (kinda a false sense of acheivement) but its going to be hard for them if they have no way getting better.
Whats everyone's thoughts on this? Will it force the "unskilled" players out of the game?
First let me thank the OP for calling us "un-skilled" rather than the colloquial term - noob. I am both. Yes, the difficulty of the game will drive me out of GW2 but not for, I hope, a long while. I will definitely not be playing in any dungeons but I figure that I should be able to handle 90% of the pve until level 30 or so. I am concerned about the story quests. On my necromancer and my warrior I ran into story line quests that I just could not complete - even 5 levels later! Yup, a real noob. I know that the majority of the hardcore (skilled) players would just as soon not see we noobs in the game but that is fine. I will have what fun I can in GW2 and then move on. This will be a loss for the hardcore - one less noob to gank!
Still, I love what I see of GW2 and have already pre-purchased the game. Can't wait until July 21 and August 25. Fun!
I LOL for real just a little bit any time I see someone talking about "skill" in an mmo. Its a game, even if you're elite, you don't have a skill. You're just good at a game. People take this stuff waaaay too seriously. I love games but man I have never had an actual meaningful moment, or a moment that required true skill..........because.....it...is......a.....game that fat kids living in their mother's basement are probably the best in the world at.
Just because it is a game doesn't mean that once cannot be skilled at playing it.
It would not be an important or meaningful skill, but it would be a skill.
When all has been said and done, more will have been said than done.
Let me start off by saying im looking forward to a skill based game. No more hearing "you suck baddie, your geared out". But I was wondering how the unskilled population (probably 35%) would take the game.
Now everyone has been in a guild where you got a few unskilled players (downright horrible) in the guild at pvp. Of course you would never say that to them or hurt there feelings but you still think it. Well alot of them can still be commited to the game and work hard to get gear because they really want to be better but unfortunatly you can only learn so much "skill" the rest is pretty much flat out talent for games. I feel like it does hurt those players alot because they are kinda stuck in that no mans land. At least if they got gear they could become almost average and contribute to a team and feel like they arn't as bad as they are (kinda a false sense of acheivement) but its going to be hard for them if they have no way getting better.
Whats everyone's thoughts on this? Will it force the "unskilled" players out of the game?
First let me thank the OP for calling us "un-skilled" rather than the colloquial term - noob. I am both. Yes, the difficulty of the game will drive me out of GW2 but not for, I hope, a long while. I will definitely not be playing in any dungeons but I figure that I should be able to handle 90% of the pve until level 30 or so. I am concerned about the story quests. On my necromancer and my warrior I ran into story line quests that I just could not complete - even 5 levels later! Yup, a real noob. I know that the majority of the hardcore (skilled) players would just as soon not see we noobs in the game but that is fine. I will have what fun I can in GW2 and then move on. This will be a loss for the hardcore - one less noob to gank!
Still, I love what I see of GW2 and have already pre-purchased the game. Can't wait until July 21 and August 25. Fun!
I um....do not think he's talking about PvE content. PvE content is supposed to be cake. I'm sure he's more refering to the sPvP meta-game that'll be played. This is similar to WoW's Arenas, which I get a strong indication that's what he's comparing it to. That's something that players such as myself can and will easily avoid 98% of the time.
Wx3 (WvWvW), on the other hand, seems to be a better more evolved form of PvP that revolves around a group effort and tactics as a whole rather than the individual. And it just seems more fun too.
i would take unskilled nice to talk to players anyday over the so called elite trash that tells everybody they suck. or talk trash all day even when they die like the person who killed them still sucks because he didnt kill them the right way or somthing.
i have seen so much of it anymore that it makes me sick of communities pretty quickly, I call it the wow factor. everytime i see one of these idiots i just for some reason label them wow players.
I considered myself a WOW player after playing it for 6 years. Then came Cata and I left. I just went back last month and now understand why you feel that way. I cannot believe how much scamming, bad-mouthing and ganking is happening. Pugs are an exercise in pantomine (no one talks) or rabid belittlement. Guilds (at least the guilds that hit you as soon as you return to the game) are either scammers or care nothing about you but what crafting or skills that you bring to the table.
Sure there was the Barrens chat and the equivalent (almost) on the Aliance side. However, I truly believe, after a month after my return to WOW, that the dick heads have taken over WOW. The nostalgia I had for the game is almost dry. I am really thinking about avoiding MOP altogether.
Let me start off by saying im looking forward to a skill based game. No more hearing "you suck baddie, your geared out". But I was wondering how the unskilled population (probably 35%) would take the game.
Now everyone has been in a guild where you got a few unskilled players (downright horrible) in the guild at pvp. Of course you would never say that to them or hurt there feelings but you still think it. Well alot of them can still be commited to the game and work hard to get gear because they really want to be better but unfortunatly you can only learn so much "skill" the rest is pretty much flat out talent for games. I feel like it does hurt those players alot because they are kinda stuck in that no mans land. At least if they got gear they could become almost average and contribute to a team and feel like they arn't as bad as they are (kinda a false sense of acheivement) but its going to be hard for them if they have no way getting better.
Whats everyone's thoughts on this? Will it force the "unskilled" players out of the game?
The was a guy in a guild I played aion with said that approximately 90% of all players in aion were baddies. So 35% of the players being unskilled isn't so bad by comparison.
I should add that the person who said it played a 1,2,3,4 win class so he might be a little bias. Since not everybody played his class.
Some people are plain bad at grinding too, i mean some of us play for hours and hours and yet get crappy gear and half the level they should have, they are so close minded they don't use hack or bots, they don't use some special services, they are always poor in game and they refuse to pay real cash also, they are bad at economy and sell stuff for twice the price they bough it, no really don't smile they are tons of those guys, you are probably even one of them, they are just bad at it, period. So what do happen to those guys in gear and level grind games?
I mean who even think about those poor fellows? Think about the fail grinders too, they should have a place in mmo too, no? At least a company that think about us, thank you Anet, thank you!
If king gator likes to play chess and hes good at it, He would say it takes skill to play......If he sucked he would say it takes NO skill or its a useless skill at best....Unfortunatly it makes some people feel better to think that way......
Just so you know king gator, this thread isn't about helping you feel better....A shrink would better suite you for that...
Let me start off by saying im looking forward to a skill based game. No more hearing "you suck baddie, your geared out". But I was wondering how the unskilled population (probably 35%) would take the game.
Now everyone has been in a guild where you got a few unskilled players (downright horrible) in the guild at pvp. Of course you would never say that to them or hurt there feelings but you still think it. Well alot of them can still be commited to the game and work hard to get gear because they really want to be better but unfortunatly you can only learn so much "skill" the rest is pretty much flat out talent for games. I feel like it does hurt those players alot because they are kinda stuck in that no mans land. At least if they got gear they could become almost average and contribute to a team and feel like they arn't as bad as they are (kinda a false sense of acheivement) but its going to be hard for them if they have no way getting better.
Whats everyone's thoughts on this? Will it force the "unskilled" players out of the game?
I think it will take the excuse of "its all about gear" from the unskilled players which is so common in the other MMOs. They will find that they still suck even though there is no gear advantage in GW2.
If you suck in a game with gear, you will suck in a game without it. The gear difference is NOT as extreme as the feebs make it out to be. I never had a problem competing in any PVP even with a newly geared character. I never once complained because I was undergeared because you just need to play smarter and pick your battles better. It's called skill.
Fail player is fail in any game.
I am a fail player then. At least I am considerate enough to stay away from bosses that I have no chance of killing or dungeons where my noob actions could endanger the group. I wish that I could say that for the "skilled" players! I also, as a noob don't blame other people for the wipe. Heck, I would rather play with a noob that is willing to listen and learn than most hardcore arrogant rectum that I have met in the few pugs I jointed.
I am an unskilled player and I can promise you, that you self proclaimed skillful players will not stop me from having fun in GW2. I hope you are relieved to hear it.
I LOL for real just a little bit any time I see someone talking about "skill" in an mmo. Its a game, even if you're elite, you don't have a skill. You're just good at a game. People take this stuff waaaay too seriously. I love games but man I have never had an actual meaningful moment, or a moment that required true skill..........because.....it...is......a.....game that fat kids living in their mother's basement are probably the best in the world at.
So now you are arguing that "games" don't take skill?
Huh. Cool.
I know right. I have right around 30 keybinds in my current mmo but I guess thats just easy peasy. (Rolls eyes)
IT IS, that you don't get that is mind boggling to me, binds by definition are to make the game easier.
Again, if you can be good at something competitive while being 5ft2 300 lbs and living in your mother's basement it doesn't take skill.
Get over that stereotype. The best gamers in the world are skinny teenagers usually. Esports champions that make MONEY just like any other sport. And even if one were 5 ft (not sure what height has to do with it.) and 300 lbs AND lived in there mothers basement that would have absolutely no correlation AT ALL to the current discussion. Stop trolling the forums and get off if you aren't going to have a relevant discussion. And its harder to learn 30 different keybinds than click 30 different skills anyday. Notice I said harder to learn not more efficient.
I am not trolling. As I said, its a laughable premise and people that take themselves this seriously amuse me. And yes, I am sure someone who spends 6 hours a day in front of a computer is the very model of fitness. Again, binds make games easier, not harder or I wouldn't use them. More efficient is easier than having to do more for the same result, it is the definition of easy. And did you just equate esport champions to "any other sport" .............................................................mind boggling
I'm sorry, Let me call webster's dictionary editor and tell them they got the definition of skilled wrong.
SKILL-The ability to do something well; expertise. Keep trying to come up with your own definitions kid.
You are really invested in this. It really matters to you. I will stop now. I didn't mean to draw such an emotional response.
lawl
No, your just outgunned and there is not much you can say when you are trying to change the meaning of a word COMPLETELY and someone else calls you out on it.
I wonder what other areas of life somehow have no skill involved? Is it only eSport? How about cooking? How about programming? How about gardening? How about physics? How about basketball? How about public speaking?
Fact is, everything in life takes skill including gaming. To pretend otherwise is just, in my opinion, trying to soothe ones own ego. If you aren't good at PVP gaming don't get all butt hurt about it. Be a great gardener instead. One of my tomato plants just died a couple days ago but am I going to pretend I had nothing to do with it? Maybe I'm a fail gardener I can deal with it. They need water I guess right LOL?
I am actually pretty good at pvp games so that isn't my problem. And yes, I use keybinds and mouse turn, but that just doesn't feel like a skill to me. A skill to me is something worth aquiring. Being good at a video game is just something I do for fun. People that get so wrapped up in these games must not be very good at much else and thus substitute for real life. I guess its because when you say/type the word skill my mind conjures images of things that are of value to be good at. The fact that the term "esport" exist is some sort of nerd bizzaro world take over to me.
The definition says NOTHING about skill being something worth acquiring. You could have the ability to urinate faster than any other man on the planet and, while that has no use in society to my knowledge, according to the definition of the word skill, you are the most skilled person at urinating quickly. Your in over your head and you are letting your emotions dictate the meanings of words. The dictionary won't be rewritten for you friend. Sorry.
You're projecting, I am not the least bit emotional about this. For me games are strictly unimportant entertainment. If anyone is emotional here its you and I think I know why.
And why would that be if I may ask. I hope you don't say anything about my place in society because I have done rather well for myself on that front. Also, even if I had more "emotion" vested in this discussion, the point I just made had nothing to do with the emotional effect on the discussion as a whole, but the emotional effect on the meaning of a word. Which you seem to do frequently and I have not done once.
No, I was never arguing that you couldn't clinically call anything a skill. Your pissing up a rope argument re that was valid. But when I think of the term SKILL I think of things worth knowing. By your definition sitting on a couch is a skill. I guess technically there is a "skill" to it, but is it really? Same thing with mmorps. Anyways, I am well and truly done, feel free to continue basing waaaay too much of your self image on video games. I was just trying to provide some perspective.
But when you think of the term skill you think of things worth knowing...........that's just it, it doesn't matter what you think but what the definition of the term actually means. I can call a slice of pizza a taco all I want but at the end of the day I guarantee you it will still be a slice of pizza. And I would have made the exact same arguments with you had this been a post about any other "skill" just to put you in your proper place. We have enough trolls on these boards already and don't need more.
lol@put you in your proper place. The only thing you've confirmed is how out of proportion you view games. You think this stuff is actually meaningful and important. Sitting on a couch cross legged is a skill according to your definition. That may be the case in the broadest definition of the term, fine you win. But there is skill and then there is SKILL, that you think mmorpgs require the uppercase skill is laughable and so out of proportion as to be concerning.
I would venture to say that with a game that's not gear based you will see a lot better competition. More people on equal footing with the same button smashing "skills", if you want to call it that, will mean better competition.
I've been in top arena teams with real life friends and families in WoW. Gear definately mattered in that game, and made a difference in facerolling people. The fact that we were all using logitech G13s and razer nagas gave us even more edge. I don't think it made us any more elite than other players. It just meant we all worked together as a group, had the better keyboard/mice to to roll through people with ease, as well as being in the same room together to coordinate attacks/tactics, just as we did in DAOC years ago, when we as one group would roll through and kill off an entire zerg. With DAOC early years not being gear dependant, there were so many good player on all 3 sides, the competition made the game more fun and competative, as well as people being respectful of each other, because there were so many really good pvp'ers in that game.
isnt it kinda wrong to say playing a game only needs you to move a mouse and push some buttons ? there is a lot of stuff you have to do at the same time, with the right timing, while seeing whats going on on the screen. Sure its all just on the screen and doesnt need any physical excerise whatsoever, but if its so easy why isnt everyone good at it, like sitting on a couch. I think your problem is, that it doesnt have any real use and it can be done by fat kids (oh noes). But why do skills have to be useful ? Sport skills arent really useful either, yeah i know they need physical fitness. Don't take it the wrong way KingGator but you sound like some grumpy old man who cant accept/understand new things coming with the newer generations. Or maybe you are simply intolerant to everything nerd related
Nah, I am something of a nerd myself, but I hadn't realized the degrees possible until I started reading this forum. Physical skills have real world application. Someone who maintains their physical fitness can outrun you or outfight you, someone who uses key binds in an mmo can heal you while still managing to stuff cheetos in his gob at the same time. One example is more useful than the other. I think my real problem is the elitism. First, the elitist make the game out to be more important than it is, then they seek a way to segregate and denegrate those they wish to portray as unequal in some way. Skill offends my sense of proportion I guess since skill is something earned, useful, and to be venerated, nothing in an mmorpg is all of that. I mouse turn and use keybinds myself, that doesn't make me better than someone who doesn't, really it makes me lazier.
I am old, and I might be grumpy, but I've always looked at the world this way so it isn't fair for me to use the age crutch.
Let me start off by saying im looking forward to a skill based game. No more hearing "you suck baddie, your geared out". But I was wondering how the unskilled population (probably 35%) would take the game.
Now everyone has been in a guild where you got a few unskilled players (downright horrible) in the guild at pvp. Of course you would never say that to them or hurt there feelings but you still think it. Well alot of them can still be commited to the game and work hard to get gear because they really want to be better but unfortunatly you can only learn so much "skill" the rest is pretty much flat out talent for games. I feel like it does hurt those players alot because they are kinda stuck in that no mans land. At least if they got gear they could become almost average and contribute to a team and feel like they arn't as bad as they are (kinda a false sense of acheivement) but its going to be hard for them if they have no way getting better.
Whats everyone's thoughts on this? Will it force the "unskilled" players out of the game?
Not too long ago unskilled players were forced to become better. And you know what? Everyone can become better.
People with no patience might ragequit after 3 days but frankly have they little to do in the game anyways, or in fact in any MMO.
Learning to play better is not less rewarding or time consuming than farming better gear, it is not that different.
You can only get so much better, and, as the years go by, and your body starts to deteriorate it gets harder and harder to do. Trust me, at age 60, I know. I am much better skilled at GW2 after playing the first two BWE but I would not want to waste anyone's time by being in a dungeon group. You can always get better goes along the same line as everyone can be president. Sadly, (well actually good for the country in my case!) that is not reality.
It never ceases to amaze me how often these discussions get mired in semantics.
That aside...
I do not think that an unskilled player can contribute to a group EVER. now note, for the purposes of my discussion, unskilled is that guy that never bothered to grasp even basic game mechanics and just mashes buttons and expects to be carried. Someone that is less than super awesome, but at least tries to play is another story, and not being counted for the pupose of this discussion.
And if a game's mechanics make it so that any button-mashing idiot that stands in AoEs all day and doesn't even know how to use anyhting but the "1" key can still get kills, cap objectives, and generally get things done...That is not a game I want to play. I'm not trying to be elitist, and I hope I don't come off that way. But if a game makes it so a complete idiot in top gear can win fights without really playing at all, versus an even average-skilled player in lesser gear, I do not want to play that game. Ever.
It never ceases to amaze me how often these discussions get mired in semantics.
That aside...
I do not think that an unskilled player can contribute to a group EVER. now note, for the purposes of my discussion, unskilled is that guy that never bothered to grasp even basic game mechanics and just mashes buttons and expects to be carried. Someone that is less than super awesome, but at least tries to play is another story, and not being counted for the pupose of this discussion.
And if a game's mechanics make it so that any button-mashing idiot that stands in AoEs all day and doesn't even know how to use anyhting but the "1" key can still get kills, cap objectives, and generally get things done...That is not a game I want to play. I'm not trying to be elitist, and I hope I don't come off that way. But if a game makes it so a complete idiot in top gear can win fights without really playing at all, versus an even average-skilled player in lesser gear, I do not want to play that game. Ever.
This is totally cool. I think my problem is with people who want to go all high school clique on people and segregate "goods" and "bads" something tells me when they were younger in different situations they were probably on the losing end of this segregation. I use binds, someone that clicks skills can still be perfectly good in a group so long as they think fast and use skills at the right time. Anyways, that is sort of my problem, that and the idea that in a freaking game we need to discriminate against people that don't quite know how to maximize efficiency....it botthers me.
Wouldn't see how it would detract unskilled players, you don't have to be very skilled at this game to be good, there isn't enough counter abilities to really set apart a good player from an amazing player.
If you are downright horrible then you might get annoyed with somethings but I think that would go for every game if you were that bad..
Wouldn't see how it would detract unskilled players, you don't have to be very skilled at this game to be good, there isn't enough counter abilities to really set apart a good player from an amazing player.
If you are downright horrible then you might get annoyed with somethings but I think that would go for every game if you were that bad..
That's been my argument regarding this game. 10 or so quick binds and move with the mouse, so simple a caveman(me) could do it. Being able to do that doesn't make me skilled...................
Do you list that on your resume when looking for a job or use that as a pick up line, that your epicly l33tz @ PvP MMO games?
That has to be the most useless character trait one could claim to have. Its pushing buttons on a keyboard and mouse. Some games its just macroing one button to do almost everything.
Do you list that on your resume when looking for a job or use that as a pick up line, that your epicly l33tz @ PvP MMO games?
That has to be the most useless character trait one could claim to have. Its pushing buttons on a keyboard and mouse. Some games its just macroing one button to do almost everything.
You my friend have just blasphemed in the eyes of some here, dawn thy flame retardent suit and prepare to defend thyself!!!
Let me start off by saying im looking forward to a skill based game. No more hearing "you suck baddie, your geared out". But I was wondering how the unskilled population (probably 90% ) would take the game.
Fixed it for you. And no I'm not kidding, lots of people think they are good when in fact, they're not. You are skilled when you play and won or put up a good fight against the best.
Thinking bad players could learn more how to play by getting better gear is nonsense. Yes talent helps to become a better player but skill can be learn easily, play against the best, analyse their play and talk to them to get advices. Simple as that. I don't know where you get the idea that you can only learn so much skill and the rest is just flat out talent, because this is just false. If you work hard, do your homework and you're really dedicated to improve, you will, talent will only help you by spending less time on those things and become better more quickly. Its not like the guy who has talent will be a better player then the guy who works hard the be on the same level.
So IMO, the whole thread is pointless because everything the OP said is false.
Wouldn't see how it would detract unskilled players, you don't have to be very skilled at this game to be good, there isn't enough counter abilities to really set apart a good player from an amazing player.
If you are downright horrible then you might get annoyed with somethings but I think that would go for every game if you were that bad..
That's been my argument regarding this game. 10 or so quick binds and move with the mouse, so simple a caveman(me) could do it. Being able to do that doesn't make me skilled...................
I would have to agree with this. My 58 year old mom with keybinds/naga/G13 rocks out in pvp. in WoW, and GW2 she does well. It's not a matter of skills, it's a matter of knowing how to spec/keybinds/mice etc. you use. It's both comical and sadly, pathetic, that someone would think they have some sort of super elite skill button mashing in a video game.
I'm the type that I'll be honest, gets annoyed when people play terribly. Maybe I'm just unrealistic but I can't see how people can just fail so horribly. Sure, I can see you not being the best but theres a lot of people I honestly just wonder if they are just half playing not really doing anything maybe painting their nails rather then actually playing.
I don't mind seeing someone new and helping them out to get better, it drives me up a wall seeing someone sucking repeatedly over and over in levels that seem virtually impossible to be at without purposely trying and no sign of improvement.
Again maybe I'm over-estimating people but to me I feel everyone has the potential to be at least good, I hate seeing people just playing horribly and not showing any sign of improvement ever or even seeming to really try.
Fixed it for you. And no I'm not kidding, lots of people think they are good when in fact, they're not. You are skilled when you play and won or put up a good fight against the best.
By that logic, only Olympic athletes are worth anything.
Sorry, there's actually a pretty wide range for the concept of "skilled", usually most people who put in the time are going to be relatively skilled, but not at all necessarily the best. A person with a hobby of making model airplanes will eventually become skilled at it. That doesn't mean they're a champion of model airplane building. I don't know where this recent metric came from, it was never the case.
I also really doubt you're Olympic athlete level, tbh...
Comments
isnt it kinda wrong to say playing a game only needs you to move a mouse and push some buttons ? there is a lot of stuff you have to do at the same time, with the right timing, while seeing whats going on on the screen. Sure its all just on the screen and doesnt need any physical excerise whatsoever, but if its so easy why isnt everyone good at it, like sitting on a couch. I think your problem is, that it doesnt have any real use and it can be done by fat kids (oh noes). But why do skills have to be useful ? Sport skills arent really useful either, yeah i know they need physical fitness. Don't take it the wrong way KingGator but you sound like some grumpy old man who cant accept/understand new things coming with the newer generations. Or maybe you are simply intolerant to everything nerd related
I think players that underperform in PVP will gravitate over time to the WvWvW more and it won't be an issue. Most will play in that regardless, just because that's where you get exp/cash etc for playing unlike sPvP
I'm not saying "LOL ONLY BADS PLAY WvW" or anything like that, just that it's easier to blend in with the crowd, follow a big group and participate with them etc. Someone that isn't really any good at pvp can still make a meaningful contribution in a big fight. They still hit people and do damage, they still take damage that would have been aimed at someone else instead, they still inflict debuffs that affect people etc.
First let me thank the OP for calling us "un-skilled" rather than the colloquial term - noob. I am both. Yes, the difficulty of the game will drive me out of GW2 but not for, I hope, a long while. I will definitely not be playing in any dungeons but I figure that I should be able to handle 90% of the pve until level 30 or so. I am concerned about the story quests. On my necromancer and my warrior I ran into story line quests that I just could not complete - even 5 levels later! Yup, a real noob. I know that the majority of the hardcore (skilled) players would just as soon not see we noobs in the game but that is fine. I will have what fun I can in GW2 and then move on. This will be a loss for the hardcore - one less noob to gank!
Still, I love what I see of GW2 and have already pre-purchased the game. Can't wait until July 21 and August 25. Fun!
Just because it is a game doesn't mean that once cannot be skilled at playing it.
It would not be an important or meaningful skill, but it would be a skill.
When all has been said and done, more will have been said than done.
I um....do not think he's talking about PvE content. PvE content is supposed to be cake. I'm sure he's more refering to the sPvP meta-game that'll be played. This is similar to WoW's Arenas, which I get a strong indication that's what he's comparing it to. That's something that players such as myself can and will easily avoid 98% of the time.
Wx3 (WvWvW), on the other hand, seems to be a better more evolved form of PvP that revolves around a group effort and tactics as a whole rather than the individual. And it just seems more fun too.
I considered myself a WOW player after playing it for 6 years. Then came Cata and I left. I just went back last month and now understand why you feel that way. I cannot believe how much scamming, bad-mouthing and ganking is happening. Pugs are an exercise in pantomine (no one talks) or rabid belittlement. Guilds (at least the guilds that hit you as soon as you return to the game) are either scammers or care nothing about you but what crafting or skills that you bring to the table.
Sure there was the Barrens chat and the equivalent (almost) on the Aliance side. However, I truly believe, after a month after my return to WOW, that the dick heads have taken over WOW. The nostalgia I had for the game is almost dry. I am really thinking about avoiding MOP altogether.
The was a guy in a guild I played aion with said that approximately 90% of all players in aion were baddies. So 35% of the players being unskilled isn't so bad by comparison.
I should add that the person who said it played a 1,2,3,4 win class so he might be a little bias. Since not everybody played his class.
That is so much a false and twisted problem.
Some people are plain bad at grinding too, i mean some of us play for hours and hours and yet get crappy gear and half the level they should have, they are so close minded they don't use hack or bots, they don't use some special services, they are always poor in game and they refuse to pay real cash also, they are bad at economy and sell stuff for twice the price they bough it, no really don't smile they are tons of those guys, you are probably even one of them, they are just bad at it, period. So what do happen to those guys in gear and level grind games?
I mean who even think about those poor fellows? Think about the fail grinders too, they should have a place in mmo too, no? At least a company that think about us, thank you Anet, thank you!
If king gator likes to play chess and hes good at it, He would say it takes skill to play......If he sucked he would say it takes NO skill or its a useless skill at best....Unfortunatly it makes some people feel better to think that way......
Just so you know king gator, this thread isn't about helping you feel better....A shrink would better suite you for that...
Anyway great responses otherwise from everyone
I am a fail player then. At least I am considerate enough to stay away from bosses that I have no chance of killing or dungeons where my noob actions could endanger the group. I wish that I could say that for the "skilled" players! I also, as a noob don't blame other people for the wipe. Heck, I would rather play with a noob that is willing to listen and learn than most hardcore arrogant rectum that I have met in the few pugs I jointed.
LOL. Ditto!
lol@put you in your proper place. The only thing you've confirmed is how out of proportion you view games. You think this stuff is actually meaningful and important. Sitting on a couch cross legged is a skill according to your definition. That may be the case in the broadest definition of the term, fine you win. But there is skill and then there is SKILL, that you think mmorpgs require the uppercase skill is laughable and so out of proportion as to be concerning.
I would venture to say that with a game that's not gear based you will see a lot better competition. More people on equal footing with the same button smashing "skills", if you want to call it that, will mean better competition.
I've been in top arena teams with real life friends and families in WoW. Gear definately mattered in that game, and made a difference in facerolling people. The fact that we were all using logitech G13s and razer nagas gave us even more edge. I don't think it made us any more elite than other players. It just meant we all worked together as a group, had the better keyboard/mice to to roll through people with ease, as well as being in the same room together to coordinate attacks/tactics, just as we did in DAOC years ago, when we as one group would roll through and kill off an entire zerg. With DAOC early years not being gear dependant, there were so many good player on all 3 sides, the competition made the game more fun and competative, as well as people being respectful of each other, because there were so many really good pvp'ers in that game.
What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot
Nah, I am something of a nerd myself, but I hadn't realized the degrees possible until I started reading this forum.
I think my real problem is the elitism. First, the elitist make the game out to be more important than it is, then they seek a way to segregate and denegrate those they wish to portray as unequal in some way. Skill offends my sense of proportion I guess since skill is something earned, useful, and to be venerated, nothing in an mmorpg is all of that. I mouse turn and use keybinds myself, that doesn't make me better than someone who doesn't, really it makes me lazier. 
Physical skills have real world application. Someone who maintains their physical fitness can outrun you or outfight you, someone who uses key binds in an mmo can heal you while still managing to stuff cheetos in his gob at the same time. One example is more useful than the other.
I am old, and I might be grumpy, but I've always looked at the world this way so it isn't fair for me to use the age crutch.
You can only get so much better, and, as the years go by, and your body starts to deteriorate it gets harder and harder to do. Trust me, at age 60, I know. I am much better skilled at GW2 after playing the first two BWE but I would not want to waste anyone's time by being in a dungeon group. You can always get better goes along the same line as everyone can be president. Sadly, (well actually good for the country in my case!) that is not reality.
It never ceases to amaze me how often these discussions get mired in semantics.
That aside...
I do not think that an unskilled player can contribute to a group EVER. now note, for the purposes of my discussion, unskilled is that guy that never bothered to grasp even basic game mechanics and just mashes buttons and expects to be carried. Someone that is less than super awesome, but at least tries to play is another story, and not being counted for the pupose of this discussion.
And if a game's mechanics make it so that any button-mashing idiot that stands in AoEs all day and doesn't even know how to use anyhting but the "1" key can still get kills, cap objectives, and generally get things done...That is not a game I want to play. I'm not trying to be elitist, and I hope I don't come off that way. But if a game makes it so a complete idiot in top gear can win fights without really playing at all, versus an even average-skilled player in lesser gear, I do not want to play that game. Ever.
This is totally cool. I think my problem is with people who want to go all high school clique on people and segregate "goods" and "bads" something tells me when they were younger in different situations they were probably on the losing end of this segregation. I use binds, someone that clicks skills can still be perfectly good in a group so long as they think fast and use skills at the right time. Anyways, that is sort of my problem, that and the idea that in a freaking game we need to discriminate against people that don't quite know how to maximize efficiency....it botthers me.
Wouldn't see how it would detract unskilled players, you don't have to be very skilled at this game to be good, there isn't enough counter abilities to really set apart a good player from an amazing player.
If you are downright horrible then you might get annoyed with somethings but I think that would go for every game if you were that bad..
That's been my argument regarding this game. 10 or so quick binds and move with the mouse, so simple a caveman(me) could do it. Being able to do that doesn't make me skilled...................
Do you list that on your resume when looking for a job or use that as a pick up line, that your epicly l33tz @ PvP MMO games?
That has to be the most useless character trait one could claim to have. Its pushing buttons on a keyboard and mouse. Some games its just macroing one button to do almost everything.
You my friend have just blasphemed in the eyes of some here, dawn thy flame retardent suit and prepare to defend thyself!!!
Fixed it for you. And no I'm not kidding, lots of people think they are good when in fact, they're not. You are skilled when you play and won or put up a good fight against the best.
Thinking bad players could learn more how to play by getting better gear is nonsense. Yes talent helps to become a better player but skill can be learn easily, play against the best, analyse their play and talk to them to get advices. Simple as that. I don't know where you get the idea that you can only learn so much skill and the rest is just flat out talent, because this is just false. If you work hard, do your homework and you're really dedicated to improve, you will, talent will only help you by spending less time on those things and become better more quickly. Its not like the guy who has talent will be a better player then the guy who works hard the be on the same level.
So IMO, the whole thread is pointless because everything the OP said is false.
I would have to agree with this. My 58 year old mom with keybinds/naga/G13 rocks out in pvp. in WoW, and GW2 she does well. It's not a matter of skills, it's a matter of knowing how to spec/keybinds/mice etc. you use. It's both comical and sadly, pathetic, that someone would think they have some sort of super elite skill button mashing in a video game.
What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot
I'm the type that I'll be honest, gets annoyed when people play terribly. Maybe I'm just unrealistic but I can't see how people can just fail so horribly. Sure, I can see you not being the best but theres a lot of people I honestly just wonder if they are just half playing not really doing anything maybe painting their nails rather then actually playing.
I don't mind seeing someone new and helping them out to get better, it drives me up a wall seeing someone sucking repeatedly over and over in levels that seem virtually impossible to be at without purposely trying and no sign of improvement.
Again maybe I'm over-estimating people but to me I feel everyone has the potential to be at least good, I hate seeing people just playing horribly and not showing any sign of improvement ever or even seeming to really try.
By that logic, only Olympic athletes are worth anything.
Sorry, there's actually a pretty wide range for the concept of "skilled", usually most people who put in the time are going to be relatively skilled, but not at all necessarily the best. A person with a hobby of making model airplanes will eventually become skilled at it. That doesn't mean they're a champion of model airplane building. I don't know where this recent metric came from, it was never the case.
I also really doubt you're Olympic athlete level, tbh...