I would like to add, it's tree trimming time for them. ohlen is next and many of us noticed when pokket interviewd him he looked pretty shaken. as was erickson. this game was a major debacle even if the poor folks still playing it have no clue whats coming next. it's not going to be good. lucas arts smells chummed waters and is gearing up to send help.
In The end of this firing tree trimming a new vision for the game will be born and there is nothing you can do to stop it but sve your sub money and wait it out.
NGE all over again.
I'm sure that's what you and many others on this site are hoping for, but I have serious doubts that it will end up the way you wish it would. You're not only hoping for vindication on your views about this game, but somehow you guys think that if it fails or doesn't perform as expected that it will somehow spell doom for any future story based gaming, like TSW or GW2 or TESO, heh.
This is what happens when you fail to make a good game.
this is what happens when your company gets bought out by a big pubisher, they did this to a few other developers too. Blame should be on EA, for the debacle of swotor, and lucasarts, with blame on the core systems of the game on bioware. Sad but this reality is a shame, 150$ mil for development was overkill, sad we didnt get a better product.
Yeah this can't be overstated enough.
BioWare WAS a good company .. but they were bought by Electronic Arts (EA). All the valuable people in the company quit (the less valuableable are still quitting .. see SWTOR forums)... all thats left is the people who like the mess they created, or those who can't find other jobs.
Blame EA, yup. Oh did you hear they plan to destroy the Ultima franchise, that many of us grew up with (EA bought Origin & Richard Garriot years ago). Ultima will now go down the toilet, proceed.
All the money in the world will still not garantee a good game
No, but it sure as hell makes it easier.
The fact that "Bioware" failed to make a decent MMO (SWTOR would have been an okay SRPG) with the largest video game budget ever makes it obvious just how incompetent BWAustin's leaders were/are.
Since the first gameplay footage came out I've been 100% against SWTOR and I rejoice in knowing that they ship is sinking as quickly as I thought it would. I also have no sympathy for the millions of people who are disappointed after buying this game just because of the logos on the box.
This is what happens when a company always listens to fanbois, who through the entire beta process told them that all was great, and critics were just evil haters.
Why has MMO development of the last 5 years been like Groundhog Day?
The funny thing is, we are going to go through this entire cycle in 2013 with Elder Scrolls Online. Fanbois defending everything, a company which has a vision and knows all better, critics being flamed and branded haters and then another Triple AAA approach sinking.
Sic transit gloria mundi...
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Where are TOR fanboys now? When I said before release this game will fail hard and GW2 will own it in every possible way ppl laughed.
WELL, Who is laughing now !!!!???
Yes, we were right. But it doesn't make me happy. Once again another chance was destroyed. Another broken hope. It just makes me sad to see how some REALLY fundamental and simple to see issues were just totally made WRONG by a company which really should know better. And with Star Wars, the 2nd approach to make a MMO nonetheless. When we had a first try to experiment and built on that experience, for the good and the bad of SWG. And did they learn anything from SWG? No. Zilch. Nada. Rien. Nichts. Nothing.
And all the time after launch they showed no understanding for what the game needed, and instead they added more Operations, a warzone and whatnot.
It is a tragedy. And it makes me both angry and sad. They had enough intelligent people giving them good advise.
"I met a traveller from an antique land Who said: Two vast and trunkless legs of stone Stand in the desart. Near them, on the sand, Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown, And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command, Tell that its sculptor well those passions read Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things, The hand that mocked them and the heart that fed:
And on the pedestal these words appear: "My name is Ozymandias, king of kings: Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!" Nothing beside remains. Round the decay Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare The lone and level sands stretch far away"
- Shelley: Ozymandias
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
This game was literally the WOW killer. People saw a star wars massively multiplayer game, and went "wow!" then they played it.
For some, it was a WoW killer ... When I read about SWTOR and researched it, I saw alot in this game that I never saw in WoW. WoW was really sucking, with Cataclysm and all .. actually it still sucls.
To me, SWTOR was a great single player game with multiplayer support! ... but that doesn't cut it when I have a guild looking to my direction.
I played it, enjoyed it, and wished that it was a MMORPG. Hoth, the size of 6 WoW zones only capable of 250 players? Is this a joke? It was a limitation in 2004, but 2011? WHAT?
NO IT IS NOT A LIMITATION. EVE does it just fine, but companies like EA like to hold onto older technology, or onto decisions they can't change .. (Like the bonehead in EA who made Hero the engine and then convinced others that they could make it better than the unfinished product Hero Engine if they just throw more people at it - said bonehead since resigned).
So they are going to fire all the original devs, so they can grow the game? No that is not what is happening. Folks who were responsible for this failure are getting it.
The real question is who is working on the project now, from what I read they still have it staffed.
This is what happens when you fail to make a great game and do it right. I use to say wow I am sorry that folks get it, but honestly I been places and if you failed to produce a good product they let you go, and this is what is happening. That is how it works you fail your fired, it is that way for any other job.
They should be able to find other jobs in the industry unless their failure follows them, and then its time to change what yo do for a living.
I hope they keep cleaning house over there maybe they can start making good decisions instead of the bs we got for 1.2 and 1.3.
This is what happens when you fail to make a good game.
not true(or not so simple). this is what happens when you spend a boatload making a not so good game, respond unfavorably to tester feedback, don't have endgame tested, keep up a NDA till a month before launch, release patches untested, don't use your test servers until after half your players quit for good, and then hype every patch while only at best 50% of what you promised actually makes it live.
Of the different claims EA Louse asserts in the blog, perhaps the most noteworthy is the status ofStar Wars: The Old Republic. According to Louse, more than $300 million has been spent on the game so far.
"And you know what they're most proud of? This is the kicker," the blog reads. "They are most proud of the sound. No seriously. Something like a 20Gig installation, and most of it is voiceover work. That's the best they have. The rest of the game is a joke. EA knows it and so does George Lucas, they're panicking, and so most of Mythic has already been cannibalized to work in Austin on it because they can't keep pushing back launch."
Louse then predicts, "Old Republic will be one of the greatest failures in the history of MMOs from EA. Probably at the level of the Sims Online. We all know it too ..."
I blame Electronic Arts. Why? Time and time again they continue to buy up MMO and RPG companies and then ruin them and their games. I wish EA Games woud just stick to what they are good at, which is sports games.
I was so thrilled when I heard Bioware was making SWtOR. Then, some time later, I was greatly disappointed to learn that EA Games bought out Bioware. There was even a claim that Bioware Staff would remain intact, yet we now know that to be just another PR lie from the mmo/rpg vampire known as EA Games.
I'm still enjoying the game though. I do not PvP at all, so that probably makes a huge difference on why I still enjoy the game. I play to have fun, not to compete or be the "best."
Of the different claims EA Louse asserts in the blog, perhaps the most noteworthy is the status ofStar Wars: The Old Republic. According to Louse, more than $300 million has been spent on the game so far.
"And you know what they're most proud of? This is the kicker," the blog reads. "They are most proud of the sound. No seriously. Something like a 20Gig installation, and most of it is voiceover work. That's the best they have. The rest of the game is a joke. EA knows it and so does George Lucas, they're panicking, and so most of Mythic has already been cannibalized to work in Austin on it because they can't keep pushing back launch."
Louse then predicts, "Old Republic will be one of the greatest failures in the history of MMOs from EA. Probably at the level of the Sims Online. We all know it too ..."
And he was right in all.
-Could I please get a link from the full Blog? This is the first II have heard of this- Who is his guy and was he a former dev or something? Thanks.
Of the different claims EA Louse asserts in the blog, perhaps the most noteworthy is the status ofStar Wars: The Old Republic. According to Louse, more than $300 million has been spent on the game so far.
"And you know what they're most proud of? This is the kicker," the blog reads. "They are most proud of the sound. No seriously. Something like a 20Gig installation, and most of it is voiceover work. That's the best they have. The rest of the game is a joke. EA knows it and so does George Lucas, they're panicking, and so most of Mythic has already been cannibalized to work in Austin on it because they can't keep pushing back launch."
Louse then predicts, "Old Republic will be one of the greatest failures in the history of MMOs from EA. Probably at the level of the Sims Online. We all know it too ..."
And he was right in all.
-Could I please get a link from the full Blog? This is the first II have heard of this- Who is his guy and was he a former dev or something? Thanks.
Why don't you just copy a portion of the quotes and then paste them into Google search?
It's not even that they made a bad game. On the scale of what we have seen that is bad vs great, it's mostly ok. Lacking in end game.
It's not even that it failed to attract subscribers. SWTOR actually did reasonably decent numbers for an MMO.
It's that there is no way in hell that any game that is not WoW could ever recoup the astronomical development costs that they poured into the game. Really the entire business plan was literally "we need to steal all of WoW's subscribers, all of them! And keep them paying for at least a year!" That's just not a viable path to profit. They spent an order of magnitude more to make the game then they ever had any hope of getting back. The game could be seen to be a business failure just by looking at the numbers from almost a year before release.
Going free to play will not save this or turn it around. While free to play has saved many games, it's not gonna bring back 1/4 to a 1/2 of a billion dollars US in the amount of time they would need to get back the costs. At best they are trying to minimize the losses. But the second some EA accountant figures it is better to take the loss as a tax write off, it's over.
Comments
Hey guys Remember this??
No?? Me either, I guess the thousands they spent on costumes, equipment, cameras, permits, etc. were totally worth the two minute vid tho right??
I'm surprised anyone ever thought that this would actually be a good game.
I'm sure that's what you and many others on this site are hoping for, but I have serious doubts that it will end up the way you wish it would. You're not only hoping for vindication on your views about this game, but somehow you guys think that if it fails or doesn't perform as expected that it will somehow spell doom for any future story based gaming, like TSW or GW2 or TESO, heh.
All the money in the world will still not garantee a good game
Yeah this can't be overstated enough.
BioWare WAS a good company .. but they were bought by Electronic Arts (EA). All the valuable people in the company quit (the less valuableable are still quitting .. see SWTOR forums)... all thats left is the people who like the mess they created, or those who can't find other jobs.
Blame EA, yup. Oh did you hear they plan to destroy the Ultima franchise, that many of us grew up with (EA bought Origin & Richard Garriot years ago). Ultima will now go down the toilet, proceed.
Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.
No, but it sure as hell makes it easier.
The fact that "Bioware" failed to make a decent MMO (SWTOR would have been an okay SRPG) with the largest video game budget ever makes it obvious just how incompetent BWAustin's leaders were/are.
Since the first gameplay footage came out I've been 100% against SWTOR and I rejoice in knowing that they ship is sinking as quickly as I thought it would. I also have no sympathy for the millions of people who are disappointed after buying this game just because of the logos on the box.
its all about the money?!
This is what happens when a company always listens to fanbois, who through the entire beta process told them that all was great, and critics were just evil haters.
Why has MMO development of the last 5 years been like Groundhog Day?
The funny thing is, we are going to go through this entire cycle in 2013 with Elder Scrolls Online. Fanbois defending everything, a company which has a vision and knows all better, critics being flamed and branded haters and then another Triple AAA approach sinking.
Sic transit gloria mundi...
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Yes, we were right. But it doesn't make me happy. Once again another chance was destroyed. Another broken hope. It just makes me sad to see how some REALLY fundamental and simple to see issues were just totally made WRONG by a company which really should know better. And with Star Wars, the 2nd approach to make a MMO nonetheless. When we had a first try to experiment and built on that experience, for the good and the bad of SWG. And did they learn anything from SWG? No. Zilch. Nada. Rien. Nichts. Nothing.
And all the time after launch they showed no understanding for what the game needed, and instead they added more Operations, a warzone and whatnot.
It is a tragedy. And it makes me both angry and sad. They had enough intelligent people giving them good advise.
"I met a traveller from an antique land
Who said: Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desart. Near them, on the sand,
Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown,
And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command,
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
The hand that mocked them and the heart that fed:
And on the pedestal these words appear:
"My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!"
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away"
- Shelley: Ozymandias
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
This game was literally the WOW killer. People saw a star wars massively multiplayer game, and went "wow!" then they played it.
Who could have ever predicted layoffs in the department responsible for releasing a terrible game like SWTOR?
Oh, that's right. Everyone.
Content Writer for RTSGuru.com
And overall bitter old man.
For some, it was a WoW killer ... When I read about SWTOR and researched it, I saw alot in this game that I never saw in WoW. WoW was really sucking, with Cataclysm and all .. actually it still sucls.
To me, SWTOR was a great single player game with multiplayer support! ... but that doesn't cut it when I have a guild looking to my direction.
I played it, enjoyed it, and wished that it was a MMORPG. Hoth, the size of 6 WoW zones only capable of 250 players? Is this a joke? It was a limitation in 2004, but 2011? WHAT?
NO IT IS NOT A LIMITATION. EVE does it just fine, but companies like EA like to hold onto older technology, or onto decisions they can't change .. (Like the bonehead in EA who made Hero the engine and then convinced others that they could make it better than the unfinished product Hero Engine if they just throw more people at it - said bonehead since resigned).
Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.
So they are going to fire all the original devs, so they can grow the game? No that is not what is happening. Folks who were responsible for this failure are getting it.
The real question is who is working on the project now, from what I read they still have it staffed.
This is what happens when you fail to make a great game and do it right. I use to say wow I am sorry that folks get it, but honestly I been places and if you failed to produce a good product they let you go, and this is what is happening. That is how it works you fail your fired, it is that way for any other job.
They should be able to find other jobs in the industry unless their failure follows them, and then its time to change what yo do for a living.
I hope they keep cleaning house over there maybe they can start making good decisions instead of the bs we got for 1.2 and 1.3.
"In the weeks ahead, we will announce plans for growing SWTOR with new content, new players and new ways to play"
So, they are providing new players - I read this as their new format - PUTP (pay us to play)
Would say i'm in if true but i'm bored enough at my regular job and i doubt they'll pay me even half as much as i already get
/slow clap
Awesome and accurate.
Why we cant talk about EALouse? why we are censored? LoL
Of the different claims EA Louse asserts in the blog, perhaps the most noteworthy is the status ofStar Wars: The Old Republic. According to Louse, more than $300 million has been spent on the game so far.
"And you know what they're most proud of? This is the kicker," the blog reads. "They are most proud of the sound. No seriously. Something like a 20Gig installation, and most of it is voiceover work. That's the best they have. The rest of the game is a joke. EA knows it and so does George Lucas, they're panicking, and so most of Mythic has already been cannibalized to work in Austin on it because they can't keep pushing back launch."
Louse then predicts, "Old Republic will be one of the greatest failures in the history of MMOs from EA. Probably at the level of the Sims Online. We all know it too ..."
I blame Electronic Arts. Why? Time and time again they continue to buy up MMO and RPG companies and then ruin them and their games. I wish EA Games woud just stick to what they are good at, which is sports games.
I was so thrilled when I heard Bioware was making SWtOR. Then, some time later, I was greatly disappointed to learn that EA Games bought out Bioware. There was even a claim that Bioware Staff would remain intact, yet we now know that to be just another PR lie from the mmo/rpg vampire known as EA Games.
I'm still enjoying the game though. I do not PvP at all, so that probably makes a huge difference on why I still enjoy the game. I play to have fun, not to compete or be the "best."
~Ra Hallowel
-Could I please get a link from the full Blog? This is the first II have heard of this- Who is his guy and was he a former dev or something? Thanks.
After hearing the news, I went to Facebook and saw that my friend was one of the few that got laid off.
Why don't you just copy a portion of the quotes and then paste them into Google search?
~Ra Hallowel
Sadly....there is no way back to SWTOR....
They better go FTP asap.... game design is just too f**** up.
No way they can fix that...unless they start from zero...and that won´t happen.
World just feels like a desert................ DEAD.
(my personal opinion OFC)
A shame :_(
His original blog was closed very fast by EA and lawsuit menaces, but you can read a copy of his wrotes here:
http://www.gamerevolution.com/manifesto/ea-artist-soon-to-be-laid-off-burns-ea-management-2803
He was right in every word and was blamed by most of the media and Bioware fanbase.
Note he wrote all of this many months before the game launches.
Thanks alot.
Going to be n interesting read.
It's not even that they made a bad game. On the scale of what we have seen that is bad vs great, it's mostly ok. Lacking in end game.
It's not even that it failed to attract subscribers. SWTOR actually did reasonably decent numbers for an MMO.
It's that there is no way in hell that any game that is not WoW could ever recoup the astronomical development costs that they poured into the game. Really the entire business plan was literally "we need to steal all of WoW's subscribers, all of them! And keep them paying for at least a year!" That's just not a viable path to profit. They spent an order of magnitude more to make the game then they ever had any hope of getting back. The game could be seen to be a business failure just by looking at the numbers from almost a year before release.
Going free to play will not save this or turn it around. While free to play has saved many games, it's not gonna bring back 1/4 to a 1/2 of a billion dollars US in the amount of time they would need to get back the costs. At best they are trying to minimize the losses. But the second some EA accountant figures it is better to take the loss as a tax write off, it's over.