Simple math,EQ2/Wow were 20-30 million dollar games to design,costs have sky rocketed since then.
Now i bet it would be tough to build a game for under 125 million that would meet my standards.
There are so many corners being cut by developers.
Many are using automated mapping like SpeedTree.Making of buildings are just static mesh with no insides.
Devs do not want to spend the time to develop rich classes,just throw a bunch of ideas out there and tell players to pick which ones they want to use.No housing,no mounts all to save cost of not only design but cost of running the game.Instances ,we still see a lot of that going around.
Archeage is going to be the most complete game ever launched as a MMO,we will see everything we expect and more.Even still this takes a developer in the richest gaming area in the world [Korea]to back it up.I still fully expect to see lots of corners being cut.Example the class design will be using tons of presets,i imagine will be more of the static buildings,with no movers/doors ect ect.Korean games are known for having a VERY lack UI,although i have heard rumblings the yare working on that already.
No matter a MEGA nation like Korea and tons of money and we will still see a lack of depth in several areas,i expect it.The defining moment for this game will be how the developer reacts when it turns a profit,does it invest back into the game to keep it alive and growing,instead of the usual game design we see in cheap xpacks,involving a few maps,not much more.
Where did you get those numbers?
Wow cost Blizzard $60M at launch, EQ2 12M$. And only a single MMO have cost $125M+ to make and that was TOR, EAs most expensive game ever (and we only know officially that it was more than 120M, not how much more).
Most MMOs today cost $60-80M which still is a huge sum.Pre-Wow most MMOs had a budget from $5-10M (SWG cost $8M and had 64 devs working on it as example of pre Wow game).
So the only MMO up to your standard is TOR? It is not really all about money, Eve and Guildwars were both made for close to nothing and have earned in more times it´s developing cost than any other game beside Wow.
As for AA, we will have to wait and see. It´s features seems impressive enough but many people here used to think that Darkfall would be the saviour of the genre but it didn't turn out that way after launch. Let the game prove itself like any other game.
The 2 top games in development on my list is instead CCPs WoDO and Undead labs Class 4. Not because of their budgets but because of the people working on them. Again and again are we proven that money is not as important as the people actually working on the MMO.
A bad habit is going around saying a game "isnt worth it" when theres a difference between not having the money to buy every single game that comes out because thats what you want and not being able to afford half the games you want.
If i could afford every single game i'd likely buy em just to play them for a few hours.
All these games are "worth it."
I'm tired of the combat in mmo's like WoW, EQ2, LOTRO, SWTOR TSW, Guild Wars but theyre still really great games.
You know what? DCUO is the best action MMO out that ive played so far. I played the beta and pre-ordered it cuz i loved it. I liked DCUO enough to continue paying for three months past the first. Being free to play now makes it the best F2P game out there that is worth putting cash into. That of course is just my opinion. Theres an insane amount of awesome fun content in the game and its very fast paced quick instances perfect for casual playing. The raids take the longest time but after youve had practice they take 2 hours after being 4-6.
Tera is beautiful but apparently lacks the content and i still havent brought myself to start my first free month yet. lol I enjoyed the beta very much i just wasnt ready to pay a sub for it. I read that its going F2P so i just decided to wait until then to play again.
I was gonna say more but i think i rambled enough.
Jeremiah 8:21 I weep for the hurt of my people; I stand amazed, silent, dumb with grief. Join me on TwitchFacebook Twitter
The question is very leading. The assumption is that there aren't any games that are worth paying for. WoW, has a lot of people paying for it. SWTOR, despite its decline has people paying for it, EVE, TSW, to name a few. To you, and others who aren't paying for a game, because of this thought, will naturally coagulate to a question like this, and give a somewhat false impression that this is a majority view for those reading it.To get a slightly less biased idea, I would recommend a question such as 'Do you currently pay for an MMO?' While any question on a forum such as this isn't going to be representative of everry population, it will probably give you a better idea of MMORPG thoughts.
true enough maybe I should have worded it as is there ever going to be a game worth me paying for again personally I played wow for about 5 years and enjoyed it a great deal just started to get old easier and repetitive to me.I have tried many games and none was able to enthrall me except wow for more than a few days or couple of months
Probably the only game I would ever pay 15$/month for would be a Pokémon MMORPG :P
Why Nintendo still hasn't done this is beyond me, I'm hoping they will, to show that the internet capabilities of the WiiU are as good or better than ps3/xbox :P Small chance it'll happen though, but I can hope can't I
I do not see how it contributes to the discussion or how it answers your question though
The question is WHEN, so for me it would be 2014. For you? I have no idea obviously...
Thanks for the reply I am keeping my on both of those and have decided to not play a mmo until one releases with at least some things I want and hopefully with the masses starting to show our displeasures with our wallets and not just our words companies will be forced to give us a complete product and not the half finished games they have been
I think that we will not get any information related to project Titan until Blizzcon 2013. Hopefully, there will be Blizzcon in 2013 .
Regarding AA, it is quite for difficult for me, but I still try to keep my eyes open and count with the possibility that the game may still be the worst game I will ever get a chance to play. The videos and information available indicate that it will be my new home after a decade with WoW.
It still wont be Wow2, Blizzard will release Wow2 in 2020 or so, just trust me on that.
You want proof? The last game Blizz did without a sequel was "Justice League Task Force" in 1995, every other game they made since that have had at least one sequel. To even consider that they wont make one for their biggest success ever is just being silly, particularly since Wows subs have started to drop.
I would be very surprised if Blizz doesn´t already have a small group looking into Wow2 and if Titan would sell less than expected they might put all the studios assets on Wow2.
All that said, Blizz is probably hoping that Titan will sell as well as Wow did, but only a fool places all his eggs in the same basket, and Blizz are not fools.
If you enjoy it its worth paying for.A bad habit is going around saying a game "isnt worth it" when theres a difference between not having the money to buy every single game that comes out because thats what you want and not being able to afford half the games you want. =)If i could afford every single game i'd likely buy em just to play them for a few hours.All these games are "worth it."I'm tired of the combat in mmo's like WoW, EQ2, LOTRO, SWTOR TSW, Guild Wars but theyre still really great games. You know what? DCUO is the best action MMO out that ive played so far. I played the beta and pre-ordered it cuz i loved it. I liked DCUO enough to continue paying for three months past the first. Being free to play now makes it the best F2P game out there that is worth putting cash into. That of course is just my opinion. Theres an insane amount of awesome fun content in the game and its very fast paced quick instances perfect for casual playing. The raids take the longest time but after youve had practice they take 2 hours after being 4-6.Tera is beautiful but apparently lacks the content and i still havent brought myself to start my first free month yet. lol I enjoyed the beta very much i just wasnt ready to pay a sub for it. I read that its going F2P so i just decided to wait until then to play again. I was gonna say more but i think i rambled enough.
I tried DCUO and did not like the combat at all tbh but to each his own
... I would love any games you could suggest and I do not mind what a lot of people call grinding which is a term I have never really understood every game is a grind in some way
I'm currently playing Wurm (on the Epic cluster, the PvP-servers of Wurm. An no, there's practically no ganking). Before that I have played Ryzom, before that Vanguard, before that Haven & Hearth and before that Xsyon. There's a lot of choice.
Originally posted by zakin All the games out currently and those releasing soon are either f2p or look like cartoons for 10 year olds. When can we get a good game for adults that is not a wow theme park wanna be clone.
The Secret World is what you seek. Well worth the price
No, really it's not ...
Actually, it is. TSW is one of the ..
Actually, I have been in beta since just after Christmas ... really it's not!
true enough maybe I should have worded it as is there ever going to be a game worth me paying for again personally I played wow for about 5 years and enjoyed it a great deal just started to get old easier and repetitive to me.I have tried many games and none was able to enthrall me except wow for more than a few days or couple of months
So by saying "worth paying for" do you mean a game that can keep you at the same level of interest as WoW? If so, what was it about WoW you liked?
I don't think they will ever make a game that is worth paying a subscription for. Ever.
The cost to impliment the amount of content that would keep all players satisfied for a long duration exceeds the viable profitability on sales.
This is the problem. There trying to make games that satisfy all players and it simply can not be done. You make one person happy and youve pissed someone else off becasue of it.
Originally posted by Tokken when WOW 2 and Archeage comes out....
errm....
a) WoW2 is actually called titan. blizz won't make a 2nd part of World of Warcraft
b) archage... yea. don't get me started.... happy grinding
May I have a question related to point b)
Do you have any information that explicitly state that the game will be about grinding or is it prejudice that makes you say that?
I do not say you are wrong, I just wonder if you have any information I dont or if you just let prejudice warp your judgements.
for the b) question, name me a korean game where there is no grinding?
name me a MMO where there is no grinding.
GW2
do you have to grind to enjoy the game? no
you can grind if you like a piece of armor for aesthetic purpose but it wont change any "stat"
i call grinding when you have to grind dungeon over and over to get one piece of crap then when you're done completed your full set from this dungeon(or points for pvp) you are allowed to grind harder dungeon to get better gears so you spend your time by grinding over and over
i bet that you need to grind gears if you want to be competitive in Archage like most of mmo, so have fun , this game will end like Aion for me sooner or later, the best "grinder" will own the pvp , cool ......
Originally posted by Tokken when WOW 2 and Archeage comes out....
errm....
a) WoW2 is actually called titan. blizz won't make a 2nd part of World of Warcraft
b) archage... yea. don't get me started.... happy grinding
May I have a question related to point b)
Do you have any information that explicitly state that the game will be about grinding or is it prejudice that makes you say that?
I do not say you are wrong, I just wonder if you have any information I dont or if you just let prejudice warp your judgements.
for the b) question, name me a korean game where there is no grinding?
name me a MMO where there is no grinding.
GW2
do you have to grind to enjoy the game? no
you can grind if you like a piece of armor for aesthetic purpose but it wont change any "stat"
i call grinding when you have to grind dungeon over and over to get one piece of crap then when you're done completed your full set from this dungeon(or points for pvp) you are allowed to grind harder dungeon to get better gears so you spend your time by grinding over and over
i bet that you need to grind gears if you want to be competitive in Archage like most of mmo, so have fun , this game will end like Aion for me sooner or later, the best "grinder" will own the pvp , cool ......
PvE gear in GW2 has stats, so, grinding.
Grinding for cosmetic gear is still grinding.
All of these games can be considered a grind by someone.
What's "worth" paying for is up to the individual. Others' opinions are worthless.
Originally posted by Tokken when WOW 2 and Archeage comes out....
errm....
a) WoW2 is actually called titan. blizz won't make a 2nd part of World of Warcraft
b) archage... yea. don't get me started.... happy grinding
May I have a question related to point b)
Do you have any information that explicitly state that the game will be about grinding or is it prejudice that makes you say that?
I do not say you are wrong, I just wonder if you have any information I dont or if you just let prejudice warp your judgements.
for the b) question, name me a korean game where there is no grinding?
Exactly this...is what I meant by prejudice. If this is his logic too, then it is a relief for me.
explain your relief?
if you really think this game wont be a grind fest then you should wake up
What makes you think its a grind fest? Links to anything stating it or just the Korean tag makes you believe its goin to be grindy. I myself hope that it IS grindy. Will be a deterent for those with ADHD and Game Hop Syndrome to even play it. They dont even make a pill for GHS yet.
At least, when looked at with the understanding that any repetitive feature that is not enjoyable can be considered grinding.
Many people don't like to collect x quests, kill 10 things and run back to rinse and repeat. Isn't that grinding?
Even in Guild Wars 2, their is repeatable content. If one doesn't want to do any repeatable content is that content considered grinding?
Maybe it's getting to the point where people can't repeat content or they consider that grindiing. Then again, isn't any game rife with repeatable content?
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Originally posted by Tokken when WOW 2 and Archeage comes out....
errm....
a) WoW2 is actually called titan. blizz won't make a 2nd part of World of Warcraft
b) archage... yea. don't get me started.... happy grinding
May I have a question related to point b)
Do you have any information that explicitly state that the game will be about grinding or is it prejudice that makes you say that?
I do not say you are wrong, I just wonder if you have any information I dont or if you just let prejudice warp your judgements.
for the b) question, name me a korean game where there is no grinding?
name me a MMO where there is no grinding.
GW2
GW2 hasent even reliesed yet and your saying it doesent have a "grind". Sorry try again.
do you have to grind to enjoy the game? no
you can grind if you like a piece of armor for aesthetic purpose but it wont change any "stat"
i call grinding when you have to grind dungeon over and over to get one piece of crap then when you're done completed your full set from this dungeon(or points for pvp) you are allowed to grind harder dungeon to get better gears so you spend your time by grinding over and over
i bet that you need to grind gears if you want to be competitive in Archage like most of mmo, so have fun , this game will end like Aion for me sooner or later, the best "grinder" will own the pvp , cool ......
If your refering to GW2 ending like Aion i agree with you. 2 months is all youll get out of GW2.
At least, when looked at with the understanding that any repetitive feature that is not enjoyable can be considered grinding.
Many people don't like to collect x quests, kill 10 things and run back to rinse and repeat. Isn't that grinding?
Even in Guild Wars 2, their is repeatable content. If one doesn't want to do any repeatable content is that content considered grinding?
Maybe it's getting to the point where people can't repeat content or they consider that grindiing. Then again, isn't any game rife with repeatable content?
I myself like the grind. Grinding out mats for crafting or killing x mob for rare drops. All relates to ingame time that i dont mind doing.
I don't think they will ever make a game that is worth paying a subscription for. Ever.
The cost to impliment the amount of content that would keep all players satisfied for a long duration exceeds the viable profitability on sales.
This is the problem. There trying to make games that satisfy all players and it simply can not be done. You make one person happy and youve pissed someone else off becasue of it.
Correct. And if they don't try to please everybody they make a niche game, where the revenue will not pay for the costs of all this massive content.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
Originally posted by zakin All the games out currently and those releasing soon are either f2p or look like cartoons for 10 year olds. When can we get a good game for adults that is not a wow theme park wanna be clone.
Enjoy our quality collection of free adult games. Get it on hardcore with adult action games...
Scary stuff.
LOL!
Or as Archie Bunker once put it, "hardpore cornography".
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own. -- Herman Melville
i played only betas and stress test so i cant tell for now if you must have a specific kind of gears to do a dungeon in GW2
for comestic gears yes its a grind but do you have to grind it ? no , you can if you want to
from other mmo if you dont have a T1 or T2 or whatever tier of gears you are not allowed to do a dungeon
not allowed from players .....because you suck with your crappy stuff and will slow down the group or you wont do enough dps or tank badly etc etc, so if you want to go further you have to grind its like an obligation
in pvp the one who will own is the one will grind for pvp gears, if you have fun being owned by a twink guy that's cool not me
he owns just because he has gears not because he has skills
and of course all mmorg are grind fest but it shouldnt be the only way to enjoy a mmorpg , in GW2 beta i didnt feel i had to grind anything to go further on my journey, there are many ways to earn xp or to have gears (quest,crafting, karma merchant)
and dont get me wrong i have some interest for Archage
Comments
Because games are selling beta invites.
Where did you get those numbers?
Wow cost Blizzard $60M at launch, EQ2 12M$. And only a single MMO have cost $125M+ to make and that was TOR, EAs most expensive game ever (and we only know officially that it was more than 120M, not how much more).
Most MMOs today cost $60-80M which still is a huge sum.Pre-Wow most MMOs had a budget from $5-10M (SWG cost $8M and had 64 devs working on it as example of pre Wow game).
So the only MMO up to your standard is TOR? It is not really all about money, Eve and Guildwars were both made for close to nothing and have earned in more times it´s developing cost than any other game beside Wow.
As for AA, we will have to wait and see. It´s features seems impressive enough but many people here used to think that Darkfall would be the saviour of the genre but it didn't turn out that way after launch. Let the game prove itself like any other game.
The 2 top games in development on my list is instead CCPs WoDO and Undead labs Class 4. Not because of their budgets but because of the people working on them. Again and again are we proven that money is not as important as the people actually working on the MMO.
If you enjoy it its worth paying for.
A bad habit is going around saying a game "isnt worth it" when theres a difference between not having the money to buy every single game that comes out because thats what you want and not being able to afford half the games you want.
If i could afford every single game i'd likely buy em just to play them for a few hours.
All these games are "worth it."
I'm tired of the combat in mmo's like WoW, EQ2, LOTRO, SWTOR TSW, Guild Wars but theyre still really great games.
You know what? DCUO is the best action MMO out that ive played so far. I played the beta and pre-ordered it cuz i loved it. I liked DCUO enough to continue paying for three months past the first. Being free to play now makes it the best F2P game out there that is worth putting cash into.
That of course is just my opinion. Theres an insane amount of awesome fun content in the game and its very fast paced quick instances perfect for casual playing. The raids take the longest time but after youve had practice they take 2 hours after being 4-6.
Tera is beautiful but apparently lacks the content and i still havent brought myself to start my first free month yet. lol I enjoyed the beta very much i just wasnt ready to pay a sub for it. I read that its going F2P so i just decided to wait until then to play again.
I was gonna say more but i think i rambled enough.
Jeremiah 8:21 I weep for the hurt of my people; I stand amazed, silent, dumb with grief.
Join me on Twitch Facebook Twitter
true enough maybe I should have worded it as is there ever going to be a game worth me paying for again personally I played wow for about 5 years and enjoyed it a great deal just started to get old easier and repetitive to me.I have tried many games and none was able to enthrall me except wow for more than a few days or couple of monthsProbably the only game I would ever pay 15$/month for would be a Pokémon MMORPG :P
Why Nintendo still hasn't done this is beyond me, I'm hoping they will, to show that the internet capabilities of the WiiU are as good or better than ps3/xbox :P Small chance it'll happen though, but I can hope can't I
It still wont be Wow2, Blizzard will release Wow2 in 2020 or so, just trust me on that.
You want proof? The last game Blizz did without a sequel was "Justice League Task Force" in 1995, every other game they made since that have had at least one sequel. To even consider that they wont make one for their biggest success ever is just being silly, particularly since Wows subs have started to drop.
I would be very surprised if Blizz doesn´t already have a small group looking into Wow2 and if Titan would sell less than expected they might put all the studios assets on Wow2.
All that said, Blizz is probably hoping that Titan will sell as well as Wow did, but only a fool places all his eggs in the same basket, and Blizz are not fools.
I tried DCUO and did not like the combat at all tbh but to each his ownI don't think they will ever make a game that is worth paying a subscription for. Ever.
The cost to impliment the amount of content that would keep all players satisfied for a long duration exceeds the viable profitability on sales.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.
When? For me, 15 days.
I'm currently playing Wurm (on the Epic cluster, the PvP-servers of Wurm. An no, there's practically no ganking). Before that I have played Ryzom, before that Vanguard, before that Haven & Hearth and before that Xsyon. There's a lot of choice.
You can always look at the List of Sandbox MMORPGs.
I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.
explain your relief?
if you really think this game wont be a grind fest then you should wake up
Actually, I have been in beta since just after Christmas ... really it's not!
So by saying "worth paying for" do you mean a game that can keep you at the same level of interest as WoW? If so, what was it about WoW you liked?
This is the problem. There trying to make games that satisfy all players and it simply can not be done. You make one person happy and youve pissed someone else off becasue of it.
GW2
do you have to grind to enjoy the game? no
you can grind if you like a piece of armor for aesthetic purpose but it wont change any "stat"
i call grinding when you have to grind dungeon over and over to get one piece of crap then when you're done completed your full set from this dungeon(or points for pvp) you are allowed to grind harder dungeon to get better gears so you spend your time by grinding over and over
i bet that you need to grind gears if you want to be competitive in Archage like most of mmo, so have fun , this game will end like Aion for me sooner or later, the best "grinder" will own the pvp , cool ......
PvE gear in GW2 has stats, so, grinding.
Grinding for cosmetic gear is still grinding.
All of these games can be considered a grind by someone.
What's "worth" paying for is up to the individual. Others' opinions are worthless.
Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.
What makes you think its a grind fest? Links to anything stating it or just the Korean tag makes you believe its goin to be grindy. I myself hope that it IS grindy. Will be a deterent for those with ADHD and Game Hop Syndrome to even play it. They dont even make a pill for GHS yet.
That's kind of my thought.
At least, when looked at with the understanding that any repetitive feature that is not enjoyable can be considered grinding.
Many people don't like to collect x quests, kill 10 things and run back to rinse and repeat. Isn't that grinding?
Even in Guild Wars 2, their is repeatable content. If one doesn't want to do any repeatable content is that content considered grinding?
Maybe it's getting to the point where people can't repeat content or they consider that grindiing. Then again, isn't any game rife with repeatable content?
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
August 25th 2012 if you pre-order/purchase. Otherwise August 28th 2012.
GW2 hasent even reliesed yet and your saying it doesent have a "grind". Sorry try again.
If your refering to GW2 ending like Aion i agree with you. 2 months is all youll get out of GW2.
Also....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grinding_%28video_gaming%29
You only added one type of grind. So if you think GW2 wount have grind your kidding yourself.
I myself like the grind. Grinding out mats for crafting or killing x mob for rare drops. All relates to ingame time that i dont mind doing.
Your statisfaction is subject to change.
Correct. And if they don't try to please everybody they make a niche game, where the revenue will not pay for the costs of all this massive content.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.
LOL!
Or as Archie Bunker once put it, "hardpore cornography".
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville
i played only betas and stress test so i cant tell for now if you must have a specific kind of gears to do a dungeon in GW2
for comestic gears yes its a grind but do you have to grind it ? no , you can if you want to
from other mmo if you dont have a T1 or T2 or whatever tier of gears you are not allowed to do a dungeon
not allowed from players .....because you suck with your crappy stuff and will slow down the group or you wont do enough dps or tank badly etc etc, so if you want to go further you have to grind its like an obligation
in pvp the one who will own is the one will grind for pvp gears, if you have fun being owned by a twink guy that's cool not me
he owns just because he has gears not because he has skills
and of course all mmorg are grind fest but it shouldnt be the only way to enjoy a mmorpg , in GW2 beta i didnt feel i had to grind anything to go further on my journey, there are many ways to earn xp or to have gears (quest,crafting, karma merchant)
and dont get me wrong i have some interest for Archage