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Is EVE the only proper MMO out there?
scaramoosh
Member Posts: 3,424
Most mmorpgs have like a server limit is like 3000-4000 with probally an average of a few hundred on at a time!
Alot of games split the community up onto different shards lowering the population even further! Of corse this has to be done though because theworld isn't big enough and no sevrer is powerful enough!
Eve on the otherhand doesn't split the community up and has 70k+ subs on one server! Plus with peak times of 15k :O
Do you belive this is truely massive? Or is EVE the only mmorpg?
Personally to me EVE is truely massive while other mmorpgs arn't so
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Maybe its easier when you have the same background for the entire game? Also the other mmorpgs I would consider massive just not as massive as EVE server player base.
I would play EVE if it didnt suck so much. I couldnt get passed the begining without falling asleep. I played Earth and Beyond it was ok but I hate the fake space stuff, I want a space game thats truely space not this cheesy horizontal only space.
"I'm sorry but your mmo has been diagnosed with EA and only has X number of days to live."
Want to elaborate more on your haterd of eve, becouse it sounds to me like you didnt even try it past the learning part, which is a steep curve.
WARNING: My spelling is atrocious
Jumpgate is also MMO. I am sure that all the players online at a given time are on "one server".
I use quotes because they have different sectors that are handled by different servers but if you jump to a sector handled by another server you switch to that server. The user doesn't really notice the switch but any true MMO can't possibly handle the traffic for thousands of users simultaneously.
I think you must understand this though and are probably looking for games where you can interact with anyone playing at that time if you are in the vicinity, or chat with them over universal comms if not in the same location, and Jumpgate certainly fits that description.
(there used to be separate servers for EU and US but they have been merged)
I think you'd have to explain how EvE works a little more clearly. Otherwise, only EvE players will be able to understand what you mean and they'll most likely agree with you. So I can just guess.
My first guess is that a solar system is huge by default. Partially because its a 3 dimenional cube or sphere. Where as in any ground-based MMO you're more limited. Allowing more people into the game without crowding resources hopelessly.
Dev time could be a factor. Your ship doesn't take regular forays into dungeons or through forests and across grass and natural features. Asteriods and planets are easy enough to create. The super-nova backgrounds could be created by a clever script in Photoshop or the GIMP. If "weather" exists in EvE in the form of gas clouds or novae, its a 3D shape of particles. The sky box doesn't have to be created to match a sandstorm or a sunny day or a drizly rain. EvE needs complex ship and space station models but I'd suspect a lot of the volume in a space sim to be just that, space. Again, you can create a huge area and let more people bum around in it.
Even in a crowded space, the ships don't have to fly THAT close together do they? In a ground based MMO, you've got to factor that in too. Having a hundred character models in close proximity isn't as hard on the client machine as having a hundred ship models in "close proximity" in space.
-Off topic to the two people before me:
I've heard it takes four months to get to the part of EvE that everyone seems to be talking about from EvE fans.
You obviously don't know a lot about computers. A server sends and recieves packages contain all informations of players, such hp, mp, speed, attacking and so on. The server don't render the game. If the bandwidth is big enough, no player should be experiencing lag if their hardware is up to the test. If you mean that 1/3 would stare at a frozen image, then it's specifically because their hardware can keep up with the game.
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EQ2 and WoW both have thousands online at the same time, per server. If you go to a WoW or EQ2 server and use the /who feature you'll see thousands of players. Not sure what you mean by a "proper" MMO, though. A massively multiplayer online Role Playing Game is typically defined as 'hundreds, even thousands, of players playing online, together, in a persistant online game.'
Every MMORPG out, including JumpGate has that potential. Many are untapped because of subscriber numbers. EVE would be too if it weren't for the fact that their server network is designed to attempt to handle all their players in 1 single server cluster. (Fact is they're going to have to either put in a 2nd cluster or seriously upgrade hardware soon though because when 15k people are on that game lags to hell in more crowded areas).
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
I think he means the client, I made the same point. 200 people in a battle on an MMO usually does not work very well for the client. Too much to render in a small volume. They're probably bashing each other with swords and axes with maybe some ranged combat (still not THAT far away). In space combat I'd could only envision that sort of scenerio arising if you were somehow flying over a planar battle in which the combatants deliberately organized into extremely close formation.
Plus, your system doesn't have to render the pixel-shaded grass and leaves, or even a ground for that matter. Or a sky. Or any walls. You'd have to have 200 ships as close as possible together over a planet flanked by space stations to get close. Plus, in my meager experience with modeling stuff, ships just don't usually require as many vertices.
To top it off, you don't have organic movement. Ships don't "run", the whole thing moves in a single direction relative to every other part of the ship most of the time. The turrets probably move, but again thats probably a cylinder or a ball rotating in a socket. Its not the same as someone drawing an arrow and shooting and then running.
It sounds cool and like it'd work in a ship and space game. Just has too many impractical problems with people opposed to ships.
Eve has 15k on the same "server" When you switch regions you also switch servers. So to say that Eve has 15k on one server is wrong.
Not much people for each region if they are divided equally, not very massive.
Some seem to confuse graphics and servers here. Graphics don't have anything to do with this, you could have the server tech from Eve on World of Warcraft. Eve never handles more than 300 persons pr region, just look at the help and local chat channels when you are in a region with 300 others. Always complaints by lag. The reason for Wow, Eq and those not having the same server tech like in Eve is because of the scale in the gameworld. A "physical" world can never become as big as Eve's world. Since Eve's region aren't anything else than a wallpaper with stars on and a couple of stations, planets and ateroids splattered within the cube that has the wallpaper on it. If etc Blizzard should have made a physical world that big they would have to use years and hundreds or thousands of artists. I feel that Wow feels massive, just look at the auction house always hundreds of people there. And in Eve you never see more than 5 ships (Unless there are fleet battles or so, but then it lags like shit too) around you since there are about 5000 regions and people are spread all over them. 15000/5000 = 3
Note: I'm not a Wow fanboy that bashes on Eve. I'm a Eve player myself.
dont know, but it's the only mmorpg that puts people to sleep.
"I'm sorry but your mmo has been diagnosed with EA and only has X number of days to live."
Tis true, eve takes a long time to catch up in. About the server thing, I am an eve subscriber, and while all players may be on 1 server cluster, it really does seem like each system you go to is an instance. Just my thoughts...
Change is inevitable, except from vending machines.
LOL, so true. If Eve were a fantasy, planet based MMO, there would be 5000 Large empty fields with a few trees and a couple houses.
How many people has Eve ever had in a single zone? If you make enough zones, and spread your population thin enough, there is really no limit to how many people you can put on a single server (or server cluster).
The standards of MMO's will eventually level out, but in the current state, 5000 character capasity IS massive.
If you look back through the years you'll relize it hasnt been possible to do that for a very long time. 5000 is a HUGE number if you really think about it.
Soon it will be the standard to have only afew servers. One for every different play type IE: PvE PvP ect. and so on.
But really, with FPS server barely able to hold 64 (Battlefield 2), MMO is really massive. 5000 or 15k....
Anyways, I think the fact that EVE can work with so many people is because of the zoning and how spread out the population is over 5000 systems/zones. Yes it's called zoning not instancing
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MMOs Retired From: Earth and Beyond, Project Entropia, There, A Tale in the Desert, Star Wars Galaxies, World of Warcraft, Eve Online, City of Heroes/Villains.
MMOs Currently (worth) Playing: None.
MMO hopefuls: Age of Conan.
This is just stupid.
I am not big fan of WOW. But is servers hold 1000 or more people for sure.
The diference is that in WOW you will likely come to places where you see over 200 players in one place.
In EVE this is very unlikely. EVE doesnt even need to send you any data about other players until you come in their vicinity - and since EVE is a space game , and space is huge - you rearly see many players together.
Other than that, ships can not emote , jump , run in circles ...
As you see EVE is just perfect game for bandwith optimising. That is why it can have so many people on the same server
"Before this battle is over all the world will know that few...stood against many." - King Leonidas
read this http://www.vanguardsoh.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1044304#post1044304 then come back and talk to me about the vanguard/soe fiasco.....
EVE benefits hugely from being based in space, there is very little content for them to have to worry about, just a few stars & planets. If you were able to land & explore planets they would have a much harder task in coding the game. So the fact there is so little content for the devs to worry about means that they can have very high numbers on the one server and still deliver a good gaming experience. For other games this is not possible as they have very rich content land-based areas.
Benny......................................
There's no such thing as "true" MMORPG. They're all massive in the sense that it's a persistant world and you're not limited to a small group of less than 100 people.
It's certainly something that I'd prefer, though, that a single server could support a large population as EVE's. However, it's not something that is easily accomplished, as it would mean the game should have a fairly large and populated world. It's not easy to design so much content.
EVE relies on player-created content and its PvE is usually limited to money-grinding. It can afford a large world, as not every area is something special, just a bunch of NPC and the rest is filled with player-created content.
However, for actual PvE content, like quests (not limited to kill X stuff or create the X item), raid content, interesting dungeons (with triggered events, preferably, like in EQ2), etc. it's a really big task to fill a huge world with them.
Saga of Ryzom, however, does have an interesting idea under development, where players can create their own mini-dungeons. Perhaps that would be interesting to see in other MMOGs as well.
Currently playing:
* City of Heroes: Deggial, Assault Rifle/Devices Blaster. Server: Defiant.
* City of Villains: Snakeroot, Plant/Thorns Dominator. Server: Defiant.
Just posting this for these who keep saying it takes months to get into pvp or "end game" http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=228135&page=1 There is no "end game" and its what you make out of it. Some players are creative and some just think they need bigest ship in the market and 20M skills to compete.
Even though you dont see every player each day doesnt mean you arent interracting with them. There is 70k other players as your potential customers when you are using market and if you do research on it you can find real money maker. There is no limitations where you can go (except limitations players make and even these can be broken) and with who you play (no US & EU servers).
There isnt mmorpg that can handle all their players in same location at same time and eve isnt exception in this. Ofoucrse it get laggy if 200+ players are on same screen, but that doesnt limit where you can go and with who you can play. Also that lag is getting smaller when they keep updating hardware and optimizing the code.
From dev blog:
64 bits
In order to alleviate this and to buy us more room for growth, we have been working on porting the server binaries to the new x64 architecture and have them run as 64 bit processes under Windows 2003 server 64, or even XP 64.
Moving to this architecture should give us some other key benefits as well: The number of registers is now larger, which allows for better code optimization, and it uses the sse2 FP architecture exclusively which would mean better FP performance.
Having previously worked with 32/64 portable software in the unix world I was suprised at how relatively painless the switch seems to be going to be. Regular integral datatypes don't change at all, only such old chestnuts as size_t and ptrdiff_t grow to reflect the new address space.
The biggest hurdle so far has been the porting of the Stackless Python code to support x64. Windows has completely revamped the ABI (application binary interface) for the x64 platforms. Stack switching is assember stuff, and there is no inline-assembly support in the 64 bit compilers by design. MASM, microsoft's macro assembler has a new 64-bit brother, MASM64, but it is very poorly documented. Still we have a running 64 bit stackless in debug mode now, although there are some issues in the optimized build to iron out yet.
To test all of this, we have put in orders for some 64 bit machines to put into our clusters. We are going to compare offerings from both Intel and AMD, single and dual core. We expect to be able to start test this seriously on Singularity in a few weeks time.
I'm right in line behind Leipuri.
I don't understand the posters here who play the tutorial on a game and then think they understand the game. That's like playing on the "island" in EQ2 and then determining that you really understand EQ2. That may be a bad example (EQ2 is afterall, a leveling game), but I submit it none-the-less.
Most tutorials teach you how to use the user interface and execute basic commands. It will take you at least 6 weeks to start to get a real feel for Eve. When I played WOW, it took me a couple of days. To EQ1's credit, it took me longer and held me much longer. EQ2 took me a while but it did not hold me. WOW was a blast for about 3 weeks and then a grind for the remaining couple of months I played.
Eve is an incredible game. I'm really happy with the direction CCP took. They don't cater to whiners and they maintain the vision. The statistics on the game membership are very interesting as well. A slow steady increase in subscribers. My take: veterans coming from WOW, EQ1, EQ2, Lineage etc. looking for the next tier in MMORPG play. Eve is Tier 2.
Anyways, I think the fact that EVE can work with so many people is because of the zoning and how spread out the population is over 5000 systems/zones. Yes it's called zoning not instancing
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No space doesn't have colorful trees. It does have colorful nebula, colorful gas clouds, comets, LARGE asteroid belts, planets with cloud atmospheres that move, solar flares. None of which eve has.
The original poster of this thread was either truly naive or an EVE fanboi wanting to stick it to other games.
Either way anything with 2000+ is massive, based on the history of online games.
Hmm, I disagree. Eve is a fantastic-looking game.
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The game looks great yes, but besides the ships, stations, asteroids and planets there aren't more objects in space. All just a wallpaper. You can't even fly into those nebular belts and things you see around you.