One of my biggest issues with Guild Wars 2 is the lack of a robust tutorial even though it doesn't effect me, it would definitely bring in a lot more casual players.
There are so many systems and mechanics in Guild Wars 2 that aren't explained at all and I can understand how it could be overwhelming to a new player especially one new to MMOs or even gaming in general.
"A game like Guild Wars 2 however is more challenging and therefore requires a more robust tutorial available for people who would like to enjoy a game but have not previously played or experienced the genre as much."
well i guess using this god given thing called a brain when you figure out video games is unheard of now
I was expecting more difficult combat in GW2 than other MMO's that I played, but I sure wasn't expecting to go into downed state in 1 hit during the tutorial boss. Was an eye opener for sure. I suspect that was sort of their attempt at teaching you that the combat isn't faceroll easy like other games. Plus even though I knew about dodging beforehand, it was a new mechanic for me so I had to practice with it a bit until it was comfortable and instinctive to use.
However, I really don't think reading an extended tutorial will help. It would need to be some sort of real combat training where they force you to move around and use dodge or you get knocked down. Something like that training area in the human town where they teach you how to time shield blocks and whatnot. Bit late to add something like that though.
"A game like Guild Wars 2 however is more challenging and therefore requires a more robust tutorial available for people who would like to enjoy a game but have not previously played or experienced the genre as much."
well i guess using this god given thing called a brain when you figure out video games is unheard of now
By that right, why aren't you a theoretical physicist, brilliant song-writer, and world-renown detective? You have a brain, why can't you use it for those things?
The answer? Training. Regardless of capacity, we have to teach our brains how to do things. It's natural. And for people trained to play MMOs the way they've been for the past 10 years or so, there are parts of this game that will be counter-intuitive, confusing, and downright hard. That's not to say we "dumb the game down". Dumbing it down would be lowering the difficulty and keeping it consistently low. It would be removing entire mechanics in this game that I love.
Adding a skippable newbie tutorial to help players accomeodate to the game, and then take that learning and aply it to the same game with the same rate of challenge the rest of us are playing, hurts no one.
I was expecting more difficult combat in GW2 than other MMO's that I played, but I sure wasn't expecting to go into downed state in 1 hit during the tutorial boss. Was an eye opener for sure. I suspect that was sort of their attempt at teaching you that the combat isn't faceroll easy like other games. Plus even though I knew about dodging beforehand, it was a new mechanic for me so I had to practice with it a bit until it was comfortable and instinctive to use.
However, I really don't think reading an extended tutorial will help. It would need to be some sort of real combat training where they force you to move around and use dodge or you get knocked down. Something like that training area in the human town where they teach you how to time shield blocks and whatnot. Bit late to add something like that though.
I agree with this entirely.
The human starter zone combat training bit is great for practising and should I make a video I'll feature that so thanks for the reminder. It is definately too late to incorporate elements like that in the initial start or tutorial zones. What I had in mind was animations video or stepthrough picture captures with key presses to truly spell out the basics of combat. Text boxes just don't quite convey enough for people with no contextual knowledge.
I don't know whats up with you today but just keep it out of a constructive post.
Sure there is lots of whine and QQ on the forums but none of it is involved with this topic. No one in this topic needs help no one wants it made easier. We're discussing from the perspective of experienced gamers the neccessity (wether it is needed or not) of an extended or better delivered tutorial which would be delivered during the first 1-10 levels of the game. This would simply be something clearer and with a bit more information than what is already there.
If you don't know how to form an intelligent response (even if you disagree) then don't bother coming back in here with this overly elitist attitude. If you want to get your opinion across you should write something along the lines of.
"I don't think that the current start of the game is in need of a tutorial. Exploration and the community should cater instead of an extended tutorial allowing people to learn and discover at their own pace."
Side Note: I found personally that Queensdale was a much better starting zone than say the Sylvari one for new players it felt more userfriendly with the heart event layout in the immediate vacinity of where you zone in following the tutorial.
I could see that. The Sylvari area was much more of a maze and had multi-layered terrain. I don't think a tutorial is going to help that, though, that's all part of exploration, which is part of an MMO.
I wouldn't mind more tutorial work but I'd want that to be optional. I personally didn't find anything in the game particularly hard to understand and grasp, and it would only annoy me and players like me to have every little detail spoon-fed to us.
EDIT - One-hit kill from Boss in tutorial is scripted, that's going to happen no matter how well you play unless you are far enough away that you're not even participating. It's meant to give you a dose of the Downed State.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
expieranced gamers dont need a tutorial.you can find the same stuff on the internet that you can find in a tutorial
not to mention,are the majority of these "expieranced" gamers all that expieranced.its just people who claim there veterens of mmorpgs but playing world of warcraft for years and that being the only mmo you've ever played in your life doesnt make you a veteren of mmorpgs
expieranced gamers dont need a tutorial.you can find the same stuff on the internet that you can find in a tutorial
not to mention,are the majority of these "expieranced" gamers all that expieranced.its just people who claim there veterens of mmorpgs but playing world of warcraft for years and that being the only mmo you've ever played in your life doesnt make you a veteren of mmorpgs
This
Have gamers become that dumb they require a tutorial to tell them moving is required in combat? Maybe they haven't been exposed to the type of games I have played in the past but c'mon, a tutorial for moving in combat? It really isn't that hard to do.
expieranced gamers dont need a tutorial.you can find the same stuff on the internet that you can find in a tutorial
not to mention,are the majority of these "expieranced" gamers all that expieranced.its just people who claim there veterens of mmorpgs but playing world of warcraft for years and that being the only mmo you've ever played in your life doesnt make you a veteren of mmorpgs
This
Have gamers become that dumb they require a tutorial to tell them moving is required in combat? Maybe they haven't been exposed to the type of games I have played in the past but c'mon, a tutorial for moving in combat? It really isn't that hard to do.
Now, i won't necessarily argue with you. Heck I got the combat right off, and I play strictly melee! However, two tings to note.
MMO combar since as far back as I can remember has mostly been "get in range of enemy. You both fire off whatever you have until someone falls over". Active evasion is something that's been used sparingly if at all- and much of that is during raid encounters. The concept of a level 1 quest trash mob that cna kill you at level one is staggering to many. They're used to standing there and trading hits. Understanding that has changed will take an adjustment.
Seriously. You don't need it. I don't need it. Crunked, for all his elitism and griping, doesn't need it. So? If others do, and putting it into the game doesn't affect your gameplay in anyway, why do you care if it's there?
expieranced gamers dont need a tutorial.you can find the same stuff on the internet that you can find in a tutorial
not to mention,are the majority of these "expieranced" gamers all that expieranced.its just people who claim there veterens of mmorpgs but playing world of warcraft for years and that being the only mmo you've ever played in your life doesnt make you a veteren of mmorpgs
We are talking about people with no gaming experience what so ever.
I agree that if you've only ever really played one game all your life then no you are not that experience in a genre. Personally playing GW1 to fill up my HoM the past 2 months has been good experience that I hadn't got from previous titles such as War, Aion, WoW, Rift, SWTOR, UO, FFXI and Global Agenda.
Where we clearly differ is not in our experience but in the fact that I think catering to casuals or inexperienced gamers can benefit the genre and you feel that you should learn the hardway or not at all, which is fine each to their own.
Not all people are hardcore gamers. Some come from different genres too, such as RTS or FPS games, and MMO games is something totally new to them. Tutorials are needed, even for the basics such as moving.
expieranced gamers dont need a tutorial.you can find the same stuff on the internet that you can find in a tutorial
not to mention,are the majority of these "expieranced" gamers all that expieranced.its just people who claim there veterens of mmorpgs but playing world of warcraft for years and that being the only mmo you've ever played in your life doesnt make you a veteren of mmorpgs
This
Have gamers become that dumb they require a tutorial to tell them moving is required in combat? Maybe they haven't been exposed to the type of games I have played in the past but c'mon, a tutorial for moving in combat? It really isn't that hard to do.
Now, i won't necessarily argue with you. Heck I got the combat right off, and I play strictly melee! However, two tings to note.
MMO combar since as far back as I can remember has mostly been "get in range of enemy. You both fire off whatever you have until someone falls over". Active evasion is something that's been used sparingly if at all- and much of that is during raid encounters. The concept of a level 1 quest trash mob that cna kill you at level one is staggering to many. They're used to standing there and trading hits. Understanding that has changed will take an adjustment.
Seriously. You don't need it. I don't need it. Crunked, for all his elitism and griping, doesn't need it. So? If others do, and putting it into the game doesn't affect your gameplay in anyway, why do you care if it's there?
Whats the need? It's just the constant hand holding that gripes me. Certain things in an mmo do require tutorials, crafting for example. Also, if a human cant' work out that he/she may have to move in combat after getting battered constantly is sad.
It really does not take brain power to work out. I could maybe understand if the death penalty was very harsh but it's nonexistent.
I especially thing it's necessary to make sure players from other mmorpg have a good grasp from the first levels that this is NOT another wow clone and as such there are other mechanics.
A scroll over pic of keyboard layout would be handy in game for those not use to pc gaming. There is on on the forum page but I have not found it in the game its self...
Originally posted by observer Not all people are hardcore gamers. Some come from different genres too, such as RTS or FPS games, and MMO games is something totally new to them. Tutorials are needed, even for the basics such as moving.
They do learn to move, it's one of the first things taught in most games. However they need to be retaught it for combat? Why?
Whats the need? It's just the constant hand holding that gripes me. Certain things in an mmo do require tutorials, crafting for example. Also, if a human cant' work out that he/she may have to move in combat after getting battered constantly is sad.
It really does not take brain power to work out. I could maybe understand if the death penalty was very harsh but it's nonexistent.
There is however the emotional/mental penalty of dying all the time. It gets discouraging.
if you spent a little time on the official forums (or these ones, when they decide to be productive), you'd see tons of posts from people complaining that melee was too difficult, even impossible. You still hear to this day that the game will be run by ranged players. mostly because melee players just couldn't "get" that you can't stand there and take hits.
If you want to think that's stupidity on other people's parts, that's fine. But I ask you once again (and crunk if he wants to bother): If they add this for the people that are struggling to learn and become more skilled, rathern than doing what other MMOs do and nerfing everything to EZ mode, why is it so bad?
I'd rather an MMO that gave weaker players a chance early on to become stronger, than one that craried everyone through 100% from start to finish.
disagree totally with OP, There is a huge anmount of freedom to be had by just letting go and slowly getting into the game and enjoying the process of discover->understanding>rewards. There is no longer a rush to learn everything ASAP to get to max level ASAP , so chill out, enjoy the game, and enjoy a real community within your chosen guild where you can actually discuss game elements and discoveries.
Put it this way, WOW and other classic mmorgs did not have hugely complex tutorials to begin with and people loved it - and humanity has not got more stupid in the last 10 years, although sometimes weak and easily influenced game designers would have you think otherwise
RE Post above, again there is no greater reward than mastering something yourself, trust in other players and faith in their abilities is needed - if a player is struggling with something, chat to your guildies (and so a community is born), or working out how to kill that tough mob etc. Again the critical factor is that there is no longer time pressure to learn ASAP!!!!
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Originally posted by observer Not all people are hardcore gamers. Some come from different genres too, such as RTS or FPS games, and MMO games is something totally new to them. Tutorials are needed, even for the basics such as moving.
They do learn to move, it's one of the first things taught in most games. However they need to be retaught it for combat? Why?
its not about learning it in combat its about showing the movement and the input devices used clearer. a picture of a player and two left arrows being double tapped and then two more pictures of them completing an evade is much clearer than writing about it. I am referring to the method of teaching not neccessarily the content.
disagree totally with OP, There is a huge anmount of freedom to be had by just letting go and slowly getting into the game and enjoying the process of discover->understanding>rewards. There is no longer a rush to learn everything ASAP to get to max level ASAP , so chill out, enjoy the game, and enjoy a real community within your chosen guild where you can actually discuss game elements and discoveries.
Put it this way, WOW and other classic mmorgs did not have hugely complex tutorials to begin with and people loved it - and humanity has not got more stupid in the last 10 years, although sometimes weak and easily influenced game designers would have you think otherwise
Hi Bladestrom, I wouldn't normally have replied but I'm just glad someone can disagree and not throw there toys out of their pram with it.
I can see your point completely, the learning curve on my first mmo's was actually part of the highlight of playing them.
My only comment would be, that whilst classic mmo's had small tutorials, the genre is now expanding out to people who have overall less experience on computers altogether let alone gaming, and instead of making the game easier I would suggest a clearer tutorial so that they can keep up with minimal frustrations. simply less text more pictures and diagrams.
disagree totally with OP, There is a huge anmount of freedom to be had by just letting go and slowly getting into the game and enjoying the process of discover->understanding>rewards. There is no longer a rush to learn everything ASAP to get to max level ASAP , so chill out, enjoy the game, and enjoy a real community within your chosen guild where you can actually discuss game elements and discoveries.
Put it this way, WOW and other classic mmorgs did not have hugely complex tutorials to begin with and people loved it - and humanity has not got more stupid in the last 10 years, although sometimes weak and easily influenced game designers would have you think otherwise
RE Post above, again there is no greater reward than mastering something yourself, trust in other players and faith in their abilities is needed - if a player is struggling with something, chat to your guildies (and so a community is born), or working out how to kill that tough mob etc. Again the critical factor is that there is no longer time pressure to learn ASAP!!!!
What in the world does adding a tutorial for inexperienced players have to do with rushing? And WoW didn't need a complex tutorial for obvious reasons.
disagree totally with OP, There is a huge anmount of freedom to be had by just letting go and slowly getting into the game and enjoying the process of discover->understanding>rewards. There is no longer a rush to learn everything ASAP to get to max level ASAP , so chill out, enjoy the game, and enjoy a real community within your chosen guild where you can actually discuss game elements and discoveries.
Put it this way, WOW and other classic mmorgs did not have hugely complex tutorials to begin with and people loved it - and humanity has not got more stupid in the last 10 years, although sometimes weak and easily influenced game designers would have you think otherwise
Hi Bladestrom, I wouldn't normally have replied but I'm just glad someone can disagree and not throw there toys out of their pram with it.
I can see your point completely, the learning curve on my first mmo's was actually part of the highlight of playing them.
My only comment would be, that whilst classic mmo's had small tutorials, the genre is now expanding out to people who have overall less experience on computers altogether let alone gaming, and instead of making the game easier I would suggest a clearer tutorial so that they can keep up with minimal frustrations. simply less text more pictures and diagrams.
I can see where you are comming from, but when you think about it, people in this day and age have MUCH more exposure to computers, they probably need less than we did back then, my daughter for example is 5, and she can happily use wasd to move, space to jump etc - they pretty much get computing from nursery these days.
You could have basic tutorials for controls etc I guess, the trick would be avoiding tutorials that walk you hand and hand through things that are more rewarding when learned.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Whats the need? It's just the constant hand holding that gripes me. Certain things in an mmo do require tutorials, crafting for example. Also, if a human cant' work out that he/she may have to move in combat after getting battered constantly is sad.
It really does not take brain power to work out. I could maybe understand if the death penalty was very harsh but it's nonexistent.
There is however the emotional/mental penalty of dying all the time. It gets discouraging.
if you spent a little time on the official forums (or these ones, when they decide to be productive), you'd see tons of posts from people complaining that melee was too difficult, even impossible. You still hear to this day that the game will be run by ranged players. mostly because melee players just couldn't "get" that you can't stand there and take hits.
If you want to think that's stupidity on other people's parts, that's fine. But I ask you once again (and crunk if he wants to bother): If they add this for the people that are struggling to learn and become more skilled, rathern than doing what other MMOs do and nerfing everything to EZ mode, why is it so bad?
I'd rather an MMO that gave weaker players a chance early on to become stronger, than one that craried everyone through 100% from start to finish.
But where do you draw the line? Inlcude a tutorial on when to use skills? Not only when but which are best for certain situations and which counter other skills better? No. All would make the player more skilled but part of the fun surely is learning those things on your own.
disagree totally with OP, There is a huge anmount of freedom to be had by just letting go and slowly getting into the game and enjoying the process of discover->understanding>rewards. There is no longer a rush to learn everything ASAP to get to max level ASAP , so chill out, enjoy the game, and enjoy a real community within your chosen guild where you can actually discuss game elements and discoveries.
Put it this way, WOW and other classic mmorgs did not have hugely complex tutorials to begin with and people loved it - and humanity has not got more stupid in the last 10 years, although sometimes weak and easily influenced game designers would have you think otherwise
RE Post above, again there is no greater reward than mastering something yourself, trust in other players and faith in their abilities is needed - if a player is struggling with something, chat to your guildies (and so a community is born), or working out how to kill that tough mob etc. Again the critical factor is that there is no longer time pressure to learn ASAP!!!!
What in the world does adding a tutorial for inexperienced players have to do with rushing? And WoW didn't need a complex tutorial for obvious reasons.
its the modern rush mentality of needing to know how to do everything immediately, as not knowing something is seen as an impediment to the gaming experience - aka it slows you a bit, and being slowed in any way is bad it seems in some games. I am not referring to the really basic control stuff.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Comments
One of my biggest issues with Guild Wars 2 is the lack of a robust tutorial even though it doesn't effect me, it would definitely bring in a lot more casual players.
There are so many systems and mechanics in Guild Wars 2 that aren't explained at all and I can understand how it could be overwhelming to a new player especially one new to MMOs or even gaming in general.
"A game like Guild Wars 2 however is more challenging and therefore requires a more robust tutorial available for people who would like to enjoy a game but have not previously played or experienced the genre as much."
well i guess using this god given thing called a brain when you figure out video games is unheard of now
I was expecting more difficult combat in GW2 than other MMO's that I played, but I sure wasn't expecting to go into downed state in 1 hit during the tutorial boss. Was an eye opener for sure. I suspect that was sort of their attempt at teaching you that the combat isn't faceroll easy like other games. Plus even though I knew about dodging beforehand, it was a new mechanic for me so I had to practice with it a bit until it was comfortable and instinctive to use.
However, I really don't think reading an extended tutorial will help. It would need to be some sort of real combat training where they force you to move around and use dodge or you get knocked down. Something like that training area in the human town where they teach you how to time shield blocks and whatnot. Bit late to add something like that though.
By that right, why aren't you a theoretical physicist, brilliant song-writer, and world-renown detective? You have a brain, why can't you use it for those things?
The answer? Training. Regardless of capacity, we have to teach our brains how to do things. It's natural. And for people trained to play MMOs the way they've been for the past 10 years or so, there are parts of this game that will be counter-intuitive, confusing, and downright hard. That's not to say we "dumb the game down". Dumbing it down would be lowering the difficulty and keeping it consistently low. It would be removing entire mechanics in this game that I love.
Adding a skippable newbie tutorial to help players accomeodate to the game, and then take that learning and aply it to the same game with the same rate of challenge the rest of us are playing, hurts no one.
I agree with this entirely.
The human starter zone combat training bit is great for practising and should I make a video I'll feature that so thanks for the reminder. It is definately too late to incorporate elements like that in the initial start or tutorial zones. What I had in mind was animations video or stepthrough picture captures with key presses to truly spell out the basics of combat. Text boxes just don't quite convey enough for people with no contextual knowledge.
I don't know whats up with you today but just keep it out of a constructive post.
Sure there is lots of whine and QQ on the forums but none of it is involved with this topic. No one in this topic needs help no one wants it made easier. We're discussing from the perspective of experienced gamers the neccessity (wether it is needed or not) of an extended or better delivered tutorial which would be delivered during the first 1-10 levels of the game. This would simply be something clearer and with a bit more information than what is already there.
If you don't know how to form an intelligent response (even if you disagree) then don't bother coming back in here with this overly elitist attitude. If you want to get your opinion across you should write something along the lines of.
"I don't think that the current start of the game is in need of a tutorial. Exploration and the community should cater instead of an extended tutorial allowing people to learn and discover at their own pace."
I could see that. The Sylvari area was much more of a maze and had multi-layered terrain. I don't think a tutorial is going to help that, though, that's all part of exploration, which is part of an MMO.
I wouldn't mind more tutorial work but I'd want that to be optional. I personally didn't find anything in the game particularly hard to understand and grasp, and it would only annoy me and players like me to have every little detail spoon-fed to us.
EDIT - One-hit kill from Boss in tutorial is scripted, that's going to happen no matter how well you play unless you are far enough away that you're not even participating. It's meant to give you a dose of the Downed State.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
expieranced gamers dont need a tutorial.you can find the same stuff on the internet that you can find in a tutorial
not to mention,are the majority of these "expieranced" gamers all that expieranced.its just people who claim there veterens of mmorpgs but playing world of warcraft for years and that being the only mmo you've ever played in your life doesnt make you a veteren of mmorpgs
This
Have gamers become that dumb they require a tutorial to tell them moving is required in combat? Maybe they haven't been exposed to the type of games I have played in the past but c'mon, a tutorial for moving in combat? It really isn't that hard to do.
Now, i won't necessarily argue with you. Heck I got the combat right off, and I play strictly melee! However, two tings to note.
We are talking about people with no gaming experience what so ever.
I agree that if you've only ever really played one game all your life then no you are not that experience in a genre. Personally playing GW1 to fill up my HoM the past 2 months has been good experience that I hadn't got from previous titles such as War, Aion, WoW, Rift, SWTOR, UO, FFXI and Global Agenda.
Where we clearly differ is not in our experience but in the fact that I think catering to casuals or inexperienced gamers can benefit the genre and you feel that you should learn the hardway or not at all, which is fine each to their own.
Whats the need? It's just the constant hand holding that gripes me. Certain things in an mmo do require tutorials, crafting for example. Also, if a human cant' work out that he/she may have to move in combat after getting battered constantly is sad.
It really does not take brain power to work out. I could maybe understand if the death penalty was very harsh but it's nonexistent.
I agree.
I especially thing it's necessary to make sure players from other mmorpg have a good grasp from the first levels that this is NOT another wow clone and as such there are other mechanics.
They do learn to move, it's one of the first things taught in most games. However they need to be retaught it for combat? Why?
There is however the emotional/mental penalty of dying all the time. It gets discouraging.
if you spent a little time on the official forums (or these ones, when they decide to be productive), you'd see tons of posts from people complaining that melee was too difficult, even impossible. You still hear to this day that the game will be run by ranged players. mostly because melee players just couldn't "get" that you can't stand there and take hits.
If you want to think that's stupidity on other people's parts, that's fine. But I ask you once again (and crunk if he wants to bother): If they add this for the people that are struggling to learn and become more skilled, rathern than doing what other MMOs do and nerfing everything to EZ mode, why is it so bad?
I'd rather an MMO that gave weaker players a chance early on to become stronger, than one that craried everyone through 100% from start to finish.
disagree totally with OP, There is a huge anmount of freedom to be had by just letting go and slowly getting into the game and enjoying the process of discover->understanding>rewards. There is no longer a rush to learn everything ASAP to get to max level ASAP , so chill out, enjoy the game, and enjoy a real community within your chosen guild where you can actually discuss game elements and discoveries.
Put it this way, WOW and other classic mmorgs did not have hugely complex tutorials to begin with and people loved it - and humanity has not got more stupid in the last 10 years, although sometimes weak and easily influenced game designers would have you think otherwise
RE Post above, again there is no greater reward than mastering something yourself, trust in other players and faith in their abilities is needed - if a player is struggling with something, chat to your guildies (and so a community is born), or working out how to kill that tough mob etc. Again the critical factor is that there is no longer time pressure to learn ASAP!!!!
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
its not about learning it in combat its about showing the movement and the input devices used clearer. a picture of a player and two left arrows being double tapped and then two more pictures of them completing an evade is much clearer than writing about it. I am referring to the method of teaching not neccessarily the content.
Hi Bladestrom, I wouldn't normally have replied but I'm just glad someone can disagree and not throw there toys out of their pram with it.
I can see your point completely, the learning curve on my first mmo's was actually part of the highlight of playing them.
My only comment would be, that whilst classic mmo's had small tutorials, the genre is now expanding out to people who have overall less experience on computers altogether let alone gaming, and instead of making the game easier I would suggest a clearer tutorial so that they can keep up with minimal frustrations. simply less text more pictures and diagrams.
What in the world does adding a tutorial for inexperienced players have to do with rushing? And WoW didn't need a complex tutorial for obvious reasons.
I can see where you are comming from, but when you think about it, people in this day and age have MUCH more exposure to computers, they probably need less than we did back then, my daughter for example is 5, and she can happily use wasd to move, space to jump etc - they pretty much get computing from nursery these days.
You could have basic tutorials for controls etc I guess, the trick would be avoiding tutorials that walk you hand and hand through things that are more rewarding when learned.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
But where do you draw the line? Inlcude a tutorial on when to use skills? Not only when but which are best for certain situations and which counter other skills better? No. All would make the player more skilled but part of the fun surely is learning those things on your own.
its the modern rush mentality of needing to know how to do everything immediately, as not knowing something is seen as an impediment to the gaming experience - aka it slows you a bit, and being slowed in any way is bad it seems in some games. I am not referring to the really basic control stuff.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D