But it still doesn't make any sense. Why should you care if I get that awesome looking armor if it has more or less the same stats as yours? The only time you should care is if it had higher stats or something that clearly gave me an advantage against you in PvP. And since in PvP everyone is instantly level 80, its skill that matters not gear.
Because it trivializes the achievement associated with that gear.
I remember I was playing D3 recently, and I met this dude that had all this awesome gear and could get to the pony level on Inferno.
I was like..."Wow man, that's awesome! How did you do all that??"
So which he replied..."Oh lol, I just bought 2 million gold from some asian dude for $20 and bought this stuff on the AH"
At that point, I lost all desire to play the game. I just didn't see the point anymore. If you can easily just buy your way to the end of the game, then what is the point of even trying to get their on your own? Getting to the end simply isn't special if you can pay your way to it.
Here's another example...
Imagine you are at the bottom of a huge mountain. You spend weeks climbing the mountain in the bitter cold, finally to reach the top utterly exhausted. But when you get to the top, you see a bunch of people having a party at a cozy cabin. You ask one of them how they all got up here, and they reply..."Oh we just took the elevator on the other side of the mountain."
So lets take your example. You still managed the climb to the mountain without getting any help. That's an achievement. Why should you care if they got by elevator? If you're goal was simply to get to the top of the mountain why not just take the elevator? Because you wanted the achievement of climbing it all by yourself.
Why do people do free fall climbing when its so dangerous? Why not just use a harness and make it a lot easier on themselves? Because it's the achievement.
For your D3 example, sure that person bought that armor, but does that make the person "better" than you? You could still kick his butt in PvP.
Again why should you care, if someone takes the easy way and it doesn't affect you.
I actually disagree...I think it does matter.
Before the elevator was put in, seeing the top of the mountain meant something. It was a special thing shared only by the enduring few who managed to climb the mountain. But after the elevator...it's just a tourist attraction.
I do get your point that I shouldn't let it bother me that all those people go to the top by taking the elevator because I still climb the mountain...but it does bother me. The journey (climbing the mountain) is still there, but the goal (seeing the top) is no longer desireable. Life is about the journey true, but I'm just not that inclined to take that journey when the goal doesn't appeal to me.
To me, it's kind of like the difference between if someone asked you to...
"Travel over the barren plains of Mor'Gash, through the deadly caverns of Farlarn to retrieve my legendary sword from the mystical realm of Tir'Na'Nog."
Or
"Travel over the barren plains of Mor'Gash, through the deadly caverns of Farlarn to get me a Whopper from Burger King."
Which one of those is more appealing to you? In both cases, the journey is exactly the same, but the goal in the second one is common-place and uninteresting.
Dungeons? Everyone can easily save their boosts for that. You don't need to pay money.
Leveling? That's not an achievement.
I'm unclear where the problem is, especially when a boost is so small. It isn't like a P2W game where it makes you a ton better than everyone else. But again, everyone can get this small boost and use it on the hardest things (which will still require skill to do).
You act like dungeon sets will be sold. They won't. Or that these boosts trivialize encounters. They clearly won't. Or that using them on the hardest stuff is something you can only do if you pay money. Not true.
Don't give me a story. Say what part of the game they ruin.
Wonder if they already have balanced these "hardest things" around those boost.
anyways I'm out this thrread. Gold buying sucks.
It's possible. We'll have to wait and see. It might be hard to tell, given that a 10% boost is pretty small all things considered.
Because it trivializes the achievement associated with that gear.
The big cosmetic stuff are things that can't be traded on the AH. They are BoP.
So what, you use the boost to help in those dungeons or whatever? That's cool. Everyone can do that though since everyone gets boosts. Money fundamentally just affects the RATE at which you get them, since you can open more chests. So normal players will horde them for when they will help the most (dungeons, most likely), and the people that pay will use them more casually.
And let's keep in mind, these boosts ARE small. A mere 10% bonus. It at best gives a little breathing room, but hardly makes hard encounters trivial.
Not that big of a deal, imho.
The rest of my post that you snipped out explained why I feel this way...
Imagine you are at the bottom of a huge mountain. You spend weeks climbing the mountain in the bitter cold, finally to reach the top utterly exhausted. But when you get to the top, you see a bunch of people having a party at a cozy cabin. You ask one of them how they all got up here, and they reply..."Oh we just took the elevator on the other side of the mountain."
In this scenario, the elevator makes climbing the mountain no longer special. Since anyone can easily get to the top, the achievement of getting to the top is diminished. Cosmetic, stat-based...all that stuff doesn't matter in the end. All that matters is the achievement itself. And when you start selling that achievement...it loses some of its magic.
It's just like why a wooden carving your buy from the airport is much less special than a hand-made one you buy from a remote village. The airport carving is mass-produced, common place, anyone can get it. The village one is unique, special, and even finding it represents some achievement. This is the same with P2W. When achievement can be bought...it becomes common place.
What achievement are you talking about?
Dungeons? Everyone can easily save their boosts for that. You don't need to pay money.
Leveling? That's not an achievement.
I'm unclear where the problem is, especially when a boost is so small. It isn't like a P2W game where it makes you a ton better than everyone else. But again, everyone can get this small boost and use it on the hardest things (which will still require skill to do).
You act like dungeon sets will be sold. They won't. Or that these boosts trivialize encounters. They clearly won't. Or that using them on the hardest stuff is something you can only do if you pay money. Not true.
Don't give me a story. Say what part of the game they ruin.
I was just replying to this post:
But it still doesn't make any sense. Why should you care if I get that awesome looking armor if it has more or less the same stats as yours? The only time you should care is if it had higher stats or something that clearly gave me an advantage against you in PvP. And since in PvP everyone is instantly level 80, its skill that matters not gear.
I don't know if what I say will be applicable in GW2 or not...I will really have to play the game more to find out what the sought after stuff actually is in practice.
There isn't anything that could be considered pay to win by any sane person. The ability to sell gems for gold and vice versa won't change anything except to eliminate gold farming spambots, which are quite rampant in TSW for example.
Are you saying TSW has gold farmers or spam bots? There is not a single one and never has been. Stop commenting about a game you've never played.
Exp and especially drop rate boosts and +damage ARE pay to win by many people. When is +damage NOT pay to win? You guys are just trying to convince yourselves otherwise.
Furthermore, the fact that you can buy gems for gold is INSTANTLY pay to win since you can buy gems, sell them, and then buy whatever you want in the game.
WTB>200 skill points so I can get a legendary weapon, anyone selling? Nope, can't buy whatever I want, dang.
And yeah, TSW has gold sellers, unless the only time in the history of the game that they appeared was during the 3 days I played the free trial, or maybe I was just imagining that, in which case, substitute WoW for TSW and re-read.
+ damage is not pay to win exactly how I described: it only works in PvE vs. mobs, all loot and exp are individual so there is no kill stealing, someone doing more damage to mobs helps everyone and does not make the person using it a "winner" in any way.
I've seen real pay to win games, GW2 isn't one, if you argue otherwise you'll need to modify the definition of "win" to mean "have a slightly easier time". Anyone who has to change the definition of words to fit their own version of reality has limited credibility to me, since they are speaking their own made up language I have no idea what they really mean.
This is an INcredible post on many different levels.
The more you say TSW has gold sellers, the more you lose that credibility you speak of.
For shits and giggles I just googled "secret world gold". Guess what I saw?.....
Before the elevator was put in, seeing the top of the mountain meant something. It was a special thing shared only by the enduring few who managed to climb the mountain. But after the elevator...it's just a tourist attraction.
I do get your point that I shouldn't let it bother me that all those people go to the top by taking the elevator because I still climb the mountain...but it does bother me. The journey (climbing the mountain) is still there, but the goal (seeing the top) is no longer desireable. Life is about the journey true, but I'm just not that inclined to take that journey when the goal doesn't appeal to me.
To me, it's kind of like the difference between if someone asked you to...
"Travel over the barren plains of Mor'Gash, through the deadly caverns of Farlarn to retrieve my legendary sword from the mystical realm of Tir'Na'Nog."
Or
"Travel over the barren plains of Mor'Gash, through the deadly caverns of Farlarn to get me a Whopper from Burger King."
Which one of those is more appealing to you? In both cases, the journey is exactly the same, but the goal in the second one is common-place and uninteresting.
It doesn't change the fact that this isn't an elevator we are talking about. Worst case scenerio...hmm, it's more likely slightly better climbing equipment. Say the top-of-the-line stuff instead the second-best. The difference is SMALL.
And again, anyone can use that top-of-the-line stuff. Buy extra keys just means you'll be able to use the tiny boosts more freely. Everyone gets keys through a variety of ways.
Originally posted by Creslin321 Stuff about elevators and mountains.
Lets carry on with this useless analogy. The elevator in this case is powered by yourself and goes slightly faster than actually walking and will cost you money or in-game gold. It doesnt take away anything from your journey.
Originally posted by Creslin321 Stuff about elevators and mountains.
Lets carry on with this useless analogy. The elevator in this case is powered by yourself and goes slightly faster than actually walking and will cost you money or in-game gold. It doesnt take away anything from your journey.
You're missing the point...let me state it outside of an analogy so we can avoid these shenanigans.
When you can pay a small fee to achieve a goal that can be achieved otherwise through skill or endurance, then said goal loses much of its appeal because it achievement becomes commonplace.
If you could buy genuine Olympic Gold Medals that are exactly the same as those given in the Olympics...I don't think that Olympic athletes would be happy with this...dig?
Originally posted by Zeus.CM Shop is cosmetic + some meaningless boosts for exp, drop and karma.
lol
Tell you the truth, I think that selling GOLD in the cash shop is a much more dangerous thing than the exp/drop/karma boosters. At least those are isolated and can only do one thing. Gold can be used to buy ANYTHING ont he auction house.
This essentially means that every single item on the auction house is sold on the CS.
I agree 100%. This is my biggest turn off. I will be holding my nose and buying, because Spvp seems like the only place that is untoched by this stinking cash shop.
But it still doesn't make any sense. Why should you care if I get that awesome looking armor if it has more or less the same stats as yours? The only time you should care is if it had higher stats or something that clearly gave me an advantage against you in PvP. And since in PvP everyone is instantly level 80, its skill that matters not gear.
Because it trivializes the achievement associated with that gear.
I remember I was playing D3 recently, and I met this dude that had all this awesome gear and could get to the pony level on Inferno.
I was like..."Wow man, that's awesome! How did you do all that??"
So which he replied..."Oh lol, I just bought 2 million gold from some asian dude for $20 and bought this stuff on the AH"
At that point, I lost all desire to play the game. I just didn't see the point anymore. If you can easily just buy your way to the end of the game, then what is the point of even trying to get their on your own? Getting to the end simply isn't special if you can pay your way to it.
Here's another example...
Imagine you are at the bottom of a huge mountain. You spend weeks climbing the mountain in the bitter cold, finally to reach the top utterly exhausted. But when you get to the top, you see a bunch of people having a party at a cozy cabin. You ask one of them how they all got up here, and they reply..."Oh we just took the elevator on the other side of the mountain."
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Originally posted by Zeus.CM Shop is cosmetic + some meaningless boosts for exp, drop and karma.
lol
Tell you the truth, I think that selling GOLD in the cash shop is a much more dangerous thing than the exp/drop/karma boosters. At least those are isolated and can only do one thing. Gold can be used to buy ANYTHING ont he auction house.
This essentially means that every single item on the auction house is sold on the CS.
I agree 100%. This is my biggest turn off. I will be holding my nose and buying, because Spvp seems like the only place that is untoched by this stinking cash shop.
But it still doesn't make any sense. Why should you care if I get that awesome looking armor if it has more or less the same stats as yours? The only time you should care is if it had higher stats or something that clearly gave me an advantage against you in PvP. And since in PvP everyone is instantly level 80, its skill that matters not gear.
Because it trivializes the achievement associated with that gear.
I remember I was playing D3 recently, and I met this dude that had all this awesome gear and could get to the pony level on Inferno.
I was like..."Wow man, that's awesome! How did you do all that??"
So which he replied..."Oh lol, I just bought 2 million gold from some asian dude for $20 and bought this stuff on the AH"
At that point, I lost all desire to play the game. I just didn't see the point anymore. If you can easily just buy your way to the end of the game, then what is the point of even trying to get their on your own? Getting to the end simply isn't special if you can pay your way to it.
Here's another example...
Imagine you are at the bottom of a huge mountain. You spend weeks climbing the mountain in the bitter cold, finally to reach the top utterly exhausted. But when you get to the top, you see a bunch of people having a party at a cozy cabin. You ask one of them how they all got up here, and they reply..."Oh we just took the elevator on the other side of the mountain."
Does gaining all gear have to be an achievement?
umm I guess not, but if you're not trying to gain gear for the achievement factor...or in pursuit of a bigger achievement...then what's the point?
And please don't say "fun" because the fun factor in getting gear is literally the achievement.
Originally posted by Creslin321 Stuff about elevators and mountains.
Lets carry on with this useless analogy. The elevator in this case is powered by yourself and goes slightly faster than actually walking and will cost you money or in-game gold. It doesnt take away anything from your journey.
You're missing the point...let me state it outside of an analogy so we can avoid these shenanigans.
When you can pay a small fee to achieve a goal that can be achieved otherwise through skill or endurance, then said goal loses much of its appeal because it achievement becomes commonplace.
If you could buy genuine Olympic Gold Medals that are exactly the same as those given in the Olympics...I don't think that Olympic athletes would be happy with this...dig?
But only a moron would get the same satisfaction from buying the medal as an athlete who earned it.
The athlete who earned it would be able to end any comparison/conversation with the medal buyer in half a sentance.
Same is true with earned versus bought rewards.
"I have a shiney stick! I bought it!"
"I have the same shiney stick, I earned it."
"Oh..."
If it bothers you that other people "bought" their way into the same glories you have, realize that you still have something they will never have - pride.
If that isn't enough, then the action that earns you the glory is probably not worth doing in the first place.
The person who earns it will always, always be the superior person - no amount of purchasing power can change that.
Remember that, and stop caring if other people buy 10% of nothing.
Originally posted by Creslin321 Stuff about elevators and mountains.
Lets carry on with this useless analogy. The elevator in this case is powered by yourself and goes slightly faster than actually walking and will cost you money or in-game gold. It doesnt take away anything from your journey.
You're missing the point...let me state it outside of an analogy so we can avoid these shenanigans.
When you can pay a small fee to achieve a goal that can be achieved otherwise through skill or endurance, then said goal loses much of its appeal because it achievement becomes commonplace.
If you could buy genuine Olympic Gold Medals that are exactly the same as those given in the Olympics...I don't think that Olympic athletes would be happy with this...dig?
But the greatest achievements in the game have nothing to do with the Cash Shop.
Dungeon tokens can't be bought or influenced just by the Cash Shop, even if you use any kind of boost, it won't make a difference if you are not a skilled player.
Karma rewards can't be bought from the Cash Shop. The karma booster works for an hour and offers a 50% increase, in order to make any difference for the vast amount of karma accumulated over the years you would require an insane amount of karma boosters (which is illogical to even consider someone buying so many)
Boosters can't be used in WvW or sPVP so any rewards there can be achieved only using your skills without booster influence
And of course when you face a cooperative experience like a Dynamic Event, some people using any kind of boosters while you don't won't affect YOU in any way.
You can't "buy" anything really important with gems or real money or radicaly affect the gain speed.
Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums
You can buy gems with real life money or by in-game money.
Well, gems can only be created with real money. You can sell gems on the AH, which means people can buy them on the AH. Someone has to first pay real money for them and then put them up, however.
You can just open the cash shop, select trade gold for gems and enter the amount of gold you're willing to trade and you just press "Trade" and you get them right away from the gem store... I've did it a few times during the beta events and I never used the "auction house", just the cash shop...
"Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life." -------------------------------
Originally posted by Creslin321 Stuff about elevators and mountains.
Lets carry on with this useless analogy. The elevator in this case is powered by yourself and goes slightly faster than actually walking and will cost you money or in-game gold. It doesnt take away anything from your journey.
You're missing the point...let me state it outside of an analogy so we can avoid these shenanigans.
When you can pay a small fee to achieve a goal that can be achieved otherwise through skill or endurance, then said goal loses much of its appeal because it achievement becomes commonplace.
If you could buy genuine Olympic Gold Medals that are exactly the same as those given in the Olympics...I don't think that Olympic athletes would be happy with this...dig?
Nice return to using analogy there.
The fact is you can't buy legendary gear, dungeon armor, or WvW vendor armor. Some of the karma vendor gear is pretty nice, and you can buy a booster for that, but how that equates to buying olympic medals isn't really obvious to me.
Be the first to have a full set of Orrian armor, people will think you're cool. Is that what you want? Cool, you can have it.
Some atheletes may have better training facilities, equipment, etc, but they still need to actually play their sport to have any chance at that gold medal. Same in GW2. Unless I missed the section of the cash shop that sells the required 200 skillpoints for a legendary weapon, or the dungeon tokens required for those sets.
Originally posted by Creslin321 Stuff about elevators and mountains.
Lets carry on with this useless analogy. The elevator in this case is powered by yourself and goes slightly faster than actually walking and will cost you money or in-game gold. It doesnt take away anything from your journey.
You're missing the point...let me state it outside of an analogy so we can avoid these shenanigans.
When you can pay a small fee to achieve a goal that can be achieved otherwise through skill or endurance, then said goal loses much of its appeal because it achievement becomes commonplace.
If you could buy genuine Olympic Gold Medals that are exactly the same as those given in the Olympics...I don't think that Olympic athletes would be happy with this...dig?
But only a moron would get the same satisfaction from buying the medal as an athlete who earned it.
The athlete who earned it would be able to end any comparison/conversation with the medal buyer in half a sentance.
Same is true with earned versus bought rewards.
"I have a shiney stick! I bought it!"
"I have the same shiney stick, I earned it."
"Oh..."
If it bothers you that other people "bought" their way into the same glories you have, realize that you still have something they will never have - pride.
If that isn't enough, then the action that earns you the glory is probably not worth doing in the first place.
This is a good argument, and it definitely pokes at a weak point in my argument I will not deny.
Nonetheless, I still don't like selling trophies at the Kwik-E-Mart. I really think that trophies are supposed to have meaning. I'm sure that if I won an Oscar, it would irk me if everyone and their brother bought a real, official Oscar from the Kwik-E-Mart and put it on their shelf. Yes, I know they just bought it...but an Oscar is supposed to be a symbol of a specific honor...and if you didn't win that honor, then you have no business displaying it. Whether you bought it fair and square or not.
Originally posted by Creslin321 Stuff about elevators and mountains.
Lets carry on with this useless analogy. The elevator in this case is powered by yourself and goes slightly faster than actually walking and will cost you money or in-game gold. It doesnt take away anything from your journey.
You're missing the point...let me state it outside of an analogy so we can avoid these shenanigans.
When you can pay a small fee to achieve a goal that can be achieved otherwise through skill or endurance, then said goal loses much of its appeal because it achievement becomes commonplace.
If you could buy genuine Olympic Gold Medals that are exactly the same as those given in the Olympics...I don't think that Olympic athletes would be happy with this...dig?
Nice return to using analogy there.
The fact is you can't buy legendary gear, dungeon armor, or WvW vendor armor. Some of the karma vendor gear is pretty nice, and you can buy a booster for that, but how that equates to buying olympic medals isn't really obvious to me.
Be the first to have a full set of Orrian armor, people will think you're cool. Is that what you want? Cool, you can have it.
Some atheletes may have better training facilities, equipment, etc, but they still need to actually play their sport to have any chance at that gold medal. Same in GW2. Unless I missed the section of the cash shop that sells the required 200 skillpoints for a legendary weapon, or the dungeon tokens required for those sets.
I'm really talking in general here...I was just responding to the guy who said you shouldn't care if people buy things unless they give him a statistical advantage against you. GW2 may very well not participate in what I am complaining about.
atm nuttin much on cash shops as of now...but by years end everything under the sun will be on there cashing in for a quick buck and you can quote me on that xD !
Originally posted by Creslin321 Stuff about elevators and mountains.
Lets carry on with this useless analogy. The elevator in this case is powered by yourself and goes slightly faster than actually walking and will cost you money or in-game gold. It doesnt take away anything from your journey.
You're missing the point...let me state it outside of an analogy so we can avoid these shenanigans.
When you can pay a small fee to achieve a goal that can be achieved otherwise through skill or endurance, then said goal loses much of its appeal because it achievement becomes commonplace.
If you could buy genuine Olympic Gold Medals that are exactly the same as those given in the Olympics...I don't think that Olympic athletes would be happy with this...dig?
But only a moron would get the same satisfaction from buying the medal as an athlete who earned it.
The athlete who earned it would be able to end any comparison/conversation with the medal buyer in half a sentance.
Same is true with earned versus bought rewards.
"I have a shiney stick! I bought it!"
"I have the same shiney stick, I earned it."
"Oh..."
If it bothers you that other people "bought" their way into the same glories you have, realize that you still have something they will never have - pride.
If that isn't enough, then the action that earns you the glory is probably not worth doing in the first place.
This is a good argument, and it definitely pokes at a weak point in my argument I will not deny.
Nonetheless, I still don't like selling trophies at the Kwik-E-Mart. I really think that trophies are supposed to have meaning. I'm sure that if I won an Oscar, it would irk me if everyone and their brother bought a real, official Oscar from the Kwik-E-Mart and put it on their shelf. Yes, I know they just bought it...but an Oscar is supposed to be a symbol of a specific honor...and if you didn't win that honor, then you have no business displaying it. Whether you bought it fair and square or not.
Well you know and they know (even if they won't admit it) that because you earned the Oscar and they bought it, you are the real winner - and you didn't have to "Pay to Win" - you just are a Winner.
Originally posted by Creslin321 Stuff about elevators and mountains.
Lets carry on with this useless analogy. The elevator in this case is powered by yourself and goes slightly faster than actually walking and will cost you money or in-game gold. It doesnt take away anything from your journey.
You're missing the point...let me state it outside of an analogy so we can avoid these shenanigans.
When you can pay a small fee to achieve a goal that can be achieved otherwise through skill or endurance, then said goal loses much of its appeal because it achievement becomes commonplace.
If you could buy genuine Olympic Gold Medals that are exactly the same as those given in the Olympics...I don't think that Olympic athletes would be happy with this...dig?
But the greatest achievements in the game have nothing to do with the Cash Shop.
Dungeon tokens can't be bought or influenced just by the Cash Shop, even if you use any kind of boost, it won't make a difference if you are not a skilled player.
Karma rewards can't be bought from the Cash Shop. The karma booster works for an hour and offers a 50% increase, in order to make any difference for the vast amount of karma accumulated over the years you would require an insane amount of karma boosters (which is illogical to even consider someone buying so many)
Boosters can't be used in WvW or sPVP so any rewards there can be achieved only using your skills without booster influence
And of course when you face a cooperative experience like a Dynamic Event, some people using any kind of boosters while you don't won't affect YOU in any way.
You can't "buy" anything really important with gems or real money or radicaly affect the gain speed.
I know it looks like I am attacking GW2 given the location of this thread, but I was really only responding to a guy who said that you shouldn't care about anything sold in the cash shop unless it gives players a statistical advantage over you. I was just arguing why you should care (in general).
AFAIK, GW2 doesn't really participate in this selling trophies phenomenon...or at least not that much.
You can just open the cash shop, select trade gold for gems and enter the amount of gold you're willing to trade and you just press "Trade" and you get them right away from the gem store... I've did it a few times during the beta events and I never used the "auction house", just the cash shop...
Those gems you bought with your gold came from other players, who had purchased them with real money.
"Auction house" doesn't exist, it's "trading post" and that's what you used. It's all player to player trading, mediated through the game's trading post interface.
Originally posted by Creslin321 Stuff about elevators and mountains.
Lets carry on with this useless analogy. The elevator in this case is powered by yourself and goes slightly faster than actually walking and will cost you money or in-game gold. It doesnt take away anything from your journey.
You're missing the point...let me state it outside of an analogy so we can avoid these shenanigans.
When you can pay a small fee to achieve a goal that can be achieved otherwise through skill or endurance, then said goal loses much of its appeal because it achievement becomes commonplace.
If you could buy genuine Olympic Gold Medals that are exactly the same as those given in the Olympics...I don't think that Olympic athletes would be happy with this...dig?
But only a moron would get the same satisfaction from buying the medal as an athlete who earned it.
The athlete who earned it would be able to end any comparison/conversation with the medal buyer in half a sentance.
Same is true with earned versus bought rewards.
"I have a shiney stick! I bought it!"
"I have the same shiney stick, I earned it."
"Oh..."
If it bothers you that other people "bought" their way into the same glories you have, realize that you still have something they will never have - pride.
If that isn't enough, then the action that earns you the glory is probably not worth doing in the first place.
This is a good argument, and it definitely pokes at a weak point in my argument I will not deny.
Nonetheless, I still don't like selling trophies at the Kwik-E-Mart. I really think that trophies are supposed to have meaning. I'm sure that if I won an Oscar, it would irk me if everyone and their brother bought a real, official Oscar from the Kwik-E-Mart and put it on their shelf. Yes, I know they just bought it...but an Oscar is supposed to be a symbol of a specific honor...and if you didn't win that honor, then you have no business displaying it. Whether you bought it fair and square or not.
Well you know and they know (even if they won't admit it) that because you earned the Oscar and they bought it, you are the real winner - and you didn't have to "Pay to Win" - you just are a Winner.
Let that be enough
Grrr...okay fine, you've swayed me. For now lol . I'm sure I'll get worked up about microtransactions in the future.
Well, gems can only be created with real money. You can sell gems on the AH, which means people can buy them on the AH. Someone has to first pay real money for them and then put them up, however.
You cannot sell gems on the AH, players CANNOT influence the price of gems directly
Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums
Well you know and they know (even if they won't admit it) that because you earned the Oscar and they bought it, you are the real winner - and you didn't have to "Pay to Win" - you just are a Winner.
Let that be enough
Grrr...okay fine, you've swayed me. For now lol . I'm sure I'll get worked up about microtransactions in the future.
Just think how satisfying it will be to destroy some fool or fools in WvW that are higher level than you cause they used boosts in PvE.
Every time you hit "F" over their corpse to finish them off, in your mind you can LOL at their wasted $ (and then realize also that every dime they spent helps Anet and helps make GW2 an even better game.)
Then you REALLY realize that it really is pay for EVERYONE to win in the end!
Because in WvW if you lose a fight, it's very much more than likely that you lost because they had more players, better skills, better coordination, or some combination of the 3 than it is EVER going to be that they had a 10% bonus on you.
There isn't anything that could be considered pay to win by any sane person. The ability to sell gems for gold and vice versa won't change anything except to eliminate gold farming spambots, which are quite rampant in TSW for example.
Are you saying TSW has gold farmers or spam bots? There is not a single one and never has been. Stop commenting about a game you've never played.
Exp and especially drop rate boosts and +damage ARE pay to win by many people. When is +damage NOT pay to win? You guys are just trying to convince yourselves otherwise.
Furthermore, the fact that you can buy gems for gold is INSTANTLY pay to win since you can buy gems, sell them, and then buy whatever you want in the game.
I don't see anything in the store that gives +damage. There are non-store potions that give +damage, but they can be crafted and bought normally.
And what are you going to buy with this gold? Potions you can make already? Non-progression equipment ( remember, the game has zero progression equipment, so getting the best gear stat-wise is not hard). I'm not seeing the pay-to-win. We might be talking about a slight boost before max level, but that's it. Beyond that it will mostly be cosmetic stuff or things you could easily make yourself.
Never seen one gold seller in TSW. Not one.
No there are mystic keys sold to unlock boxes that contain stat boost. Yes they are in game as well., but it SEEMS that chest drop at a much greater rate than keys.
Most of the buffs that come from the chest are also available through the cooking profession.
Also almost everytime I have opened a chest there has been a key for another chest in it.
Well you know and they know (even if they won't admit it) that because you earned the Oscar and they bought it, you are the real winner - and you didn't have to "Pay to Win" - you just are a Winner.
Let that be enough
Grrr...okay fine, you've swayed me. For now lol . I'm sure I'll get worked up about microtransactions in the future.
Just think how satisfying it will be to destroy some fool or fools in WvW that are higher level than you cause they used boosts in PvE.
Every time you hit "F" over their corpse to finish them off, in your mind you can LOL at their wasted $ (and then realize also that every dime they spent helps Anet and helps make GW2 an even better game.)
Then you REALLY realize that it really is pay for EVERYONE to win in the end!
Because in WvW if you lose a fight, it's very much more than likely that you lost because they had more players, better skills, better coordination, or some combination of the 3 than it is EVER going to be that they had a 10% bonus on you.
They say you don't play the game...you play the man. And you sir, are very good at this. You basically knew exactly what to say to win me over lol .
And I also completely agree about WvW. WvW is definitely not about gear or really even player skill. It's more about organization and coordination. Strategy trumps tactics and skill.
Comments
I actually disagree...I think it does matter.
Before the elevator was put in, seeing the top of the mountain meant something. It was a special thing shared only by the enduring few who managed to climb the mountain. But after the elevator...it's just a tourist attraction.
I do get your point that I shouldn't let it bother me that all those people go to the top by taking the elevator because I still climb the mountain...but it does bother me. The journey (climbing the mountain) is still there, but the goal (seeing the top) is no longer desireable. Life is about the journey true, but I'm just not that inclined to take that journey when the goal doesn't appeal to me.
To me, it's kind of like the difference between if someone asked you to...
"Travel over the barren plains of Mor'Gash, through the deadly caverns of Farlarn to retrieve my legendary sword from the mystical realm of Tir'Na'Nog."
Or
"Travel over the barren plains of Mor'Gash, through the deadly caverns of Farlarn to get me a Whopper from Burger King."
Which one of those is more appealing to you? In both cases, the journey is exactly the same, but the goal in the second one is common-place and uninteresting.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
It's possible. We'll have to wait and see. It might be hard to tell, given that a 10% boost is pretty small all things considered.
I was just replying to this post:
But it still doesn't make any sense. Why should you care if I get that awesome looking armor if it has more or less the same stats as yours? The only time you should care is if it had higher stats or something that clearly gave me an advantage against you in PvP. And since in PvP everyone is instantly level 80, its skill that matters not gear.
I don't know if what I say will be applicable in GW2 or not...I will really have to play the game more to find out what the sought after stuff actually is in practice.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
For shits and giggles I just googled "secret world gold". Guess what I saw?.....
It doesn't change the fact that this isn't an elevator we are talking about. Worst case scenerio...hmm, it's more likely slightly better climbing equipment. Say the top-of-the-line stuff instead the second-best. The difference is SMALL.
And again, anyone can use that top-of-the-line stuff. Buy extra keys just means you'll be able to use the tiny boosts more freely. Everyone gets keys through a variety of ways.
The elevator thing is quite overly dramatic.
Lets carry on with this useless analogy. The elevator in this case is powered by yourself and goes slightly faster than actually walking and will cost you money or in-game gold. It doesnt take away anything from your journey.
You're missing the point...let me state it outside of an analogy so we can avoid these shenanigans.
When you can pay a small fee to achieve a goal that can be achieved otherwise through skill or endurance, then said goal loses much of its appeal because it achievement becomes commonplace.
If you could buy genuine Olympic Gold Medals that are exactly the same as those given in the Olympics...I don't think that Olympic athletes would be happy with this...dig?
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Does gaining all gear have to be an achievement?
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
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Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
umm I guess not, but if you're not trying to gain gear for the achievement factor...or in pursuit of a bigger achievement...then what's the point?
And please don't say "fun" because the fun factor in getting gear is literally the achievement.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
But only a moron would get the same satisfaction from buying the medal as an athlete who earned it.
The athlete who earned it would be able to end any comparison/conversation with the medal buyer in half a sentance.
Same is true with earned versus bought rewards.
"I have a shiney stick! I bought it!"
"I have the same shiney stick, I earned it."
"Oh..."
If it bothers you that other people "bought" their way into the same glories you have, realize that you still have something they will never have - pride.
If that isn't enough, then the action that earns you the glory is probably not worth doing in the first place.
The person who earns it will always, always be the superior person - no amount of purchasing power can change that.
Remember that, and stop caring if other people buy 10% of nothing.
But the greatest achievements in the game have nothing to do with the Cash Shop.
Dungeon tokens can't be bought or influenced just by the Cash Shop, even if you use any kind of boost, it won't make a difference if you are not a skilled player.
Karma rewards can't be bought from the Cash Shop. The karma booster works for an hour and offers a 50% increase, in order to make any difference for the vast amount of karma accumulated over the years you would require an insane amount of karma boosters (which is illogical to even consider someone buying so many)
Boosters can't be used in WvW or sPVP so any rewards there can be achieved only using your skills without booster influence
And of course when you face a cooperative experience like a Dynamic Event, some people using any kind of boosters while you don't won't affect YOU in any way.
You can't "buy" anything really important with gems or real money or radicaly affect the gain speed.
Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums
You can just open the cash shop, select trade gold for gems and enter the amount of gold you're willing to trade and you just press "Trade" and you get them right away from the gem store... I've did it a few times during the beta events and I never used the "auction house", just the cash shop...
"Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life."
-------------------------------
Nice return to using analogy there.
The fact is you can't buy legendary gear, dungeon armor, or WvW vendor armor. Some of the karma vendor gear is pretty nice, and you can buy a booster for that, but how that equates to buying olympic medals isn't really obvious to me.
Be the first to have a full set of Orrian armor, people will think you're cool. Is that what you want? Cool, you can have it.
Some atheletes may have better training facilities, equipment, etc, but they still need to actually play their sport to have any chance at that gold medal. Same in GW2. Unless I missed the section of the cash shop that sells the required 200 skillpoints for a legendary weapon, or the dungeon tokens required for those sets.
This is a good argument, and it definitely pokes at a weak point in my argument I will not deny.
Nonetheless, I still don't like selling trophies at the Kwik-E-Mart. I really think that trophies are supposed to have meaning. I'm sure that if I won an Oscar, it would irk me if everyone and their brother bought a real, official Oscar from the Kwik-E-Mart and put it on their shelf. Yes, I know they just bought it...but an Oscar is supposed to be a symbol of a specific honor...and if you didn't win that honor, then you have no business displaying it. Whether you bought it fair and square or not.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
I'm really talking in general here...I was just responding to the guy who said you shouldn't care if people buy things unless they give him a statistical advantage against you. GW2 may very well not participate in what I am complaining about.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
atm nuttin much on cash shops as of now...but by years end everything under the sun will be on there cashing in for a quick buck and you can quote me on that xD !
Well you know and they know (even if they won't admit it) that because you earned the Oscar and they bought it, you are the real winner - and you didn't have to "Pay to Win" - you just are a Winner.
Let that be enough
I know it looks like I am attacking GW2 given the location of this thread, but I was really only responding to a guy who said that you shouldn't care about anything sold in the cash shop unless it gives players a statistical advantage over you. I was just arguing why you should care (in general).
AFAIK, GW2 doesn't really participate in this selling trophies phenomenon...or at least not that much.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Those gems you bought with your gold came from other players, who had purchased them with real money.
"Auction house" doesn't exist, it's "trading post" and that's what you used. It's all player to player trading, mediated through the game's trading post interface.
There's a huge difference, economically speaking.
Grrr...okay fine, you've swayed me. For now lol
. I'm sure I'll get worked up about microtransactions in the future.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
You cannot sell gems on the AH, players CANNOT influence the price of gems directly
Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums
Just think how satisfying it will be to destroy some fool or fools in WvW that are higher level than you cause they used boosts in PvE.
Every time you hit "F" over their corpse to finish them off, in your mind you can LOL at their wasted $ (and then realize also that every dime they spent helps Anet and helps make GW2 an even better game.)
Then you REALLY realize that it really is pay for EVERYONE to win in the end!
Because in WvW if you lose a fight, it's very much more than likely that you lost because they had more players, better skills, better coordination, or some combination of the 3 than it is EVER going to be that they had a 10% bonus on you.
Most of the buffs that come from the chest are also available through the cooking profession.
Also almost everytime I have opened a chest there has been a key for another chest in it.
They say you don't play the game...you play the man. And you sir, are very good at this. You basically knew exactly what to say to win me over lol
.
And I also completely agree about WvW. WvW is definitely not about gear or really even player skill. It's more about organization and coordination. Strategy trumps tactics and skill.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?