There used to be nothing wrong with quests. Just like there used to be nothing wrong with instances. But like instances, WoW and its clones abused it to cover their own design flaws.
In DAOC the quests felt important because they were few and you had to look for them. They were done for the story or a special weapon, not for xp grinding.
For xp grinding there were a handful of repeatable quests, exploration based xp rewards, group bonus xp, bounties, kill tasks, and xp from kills in PvP.
It was a fantastic system that both encouraged grouping, and provided a reasonable well to level if you wanted to solo.
Instead of quests...dynamic events have probably the best impleimentation of quest grinding I've seen so far, but I'd rather have them gone.
I feel like MMOs should expand on what AC did, and do GM run events with big storylines that make meaningful changes to the game world. THAT is where the story of an MMO should come from, not some scripted instanced linear singleplayer thing.
Given the choice I'd rather just kill mobs than do quests. At least that was an honest "grind" rather than a grind that tried to pretend it was awesome and "deep". It allowed you to play with others, explore and go around at your own pace, and generally do what you want without breaking immersion.
I'm tired of doing game-manufactured quests. I'm sorry, but giving "context" to killing ten boars, picking up shit off of the ground, or any other task that I've had to do in MMOs the last 8 years just doesn't do it for me. I don't need a contrived, developer-created story; that's not why I'm playing. If I wanted a story, I would play a single-player game, watch a movie, or read a book. I go in for complex character development, interaction with friends and strangers alike, and to be part of a world. Unfortunately, I also like slick UI with tons of features, nice graphics, smooth controls and good optimization... i.e. a game with a budget.
I'm not trying to stir up another "I hate this generation of MMOs" argument (though it probably will). I'm just saying that devs put too much emphasis on structured questing instead what's really the meat of an MMO... the mechanics. Even games that try to step outside the box a little, like WAR, Rift, and GW2 just dress up the questing, but what if we just removed it?
I've bitched about questing before, and I often just get told "well, you don't have to do them". In theory, I don't, but I'd be sacrificing tons of the benefits that are associated with them; and also the main problem, what would I do instead? So much of the content is designated to the quests that the game would just feel hollow without them. So, I'm just curious, if there is anyone that thinks this way, what would you do, instead, to fill the questing void?
so in other words youd like a sandbox. i could bury some of my cats turds in it for you, would you like that?
only thing i can tell you is look around, or quit spending money on games n save it for your own dev studio.
Will you guys stop saying that every MMO that isn't a WoW clone is a sandbox, then pretend like that disqualifies someone from a discussion?
I'm tired of doing game-manufactured quests. I'm sorry, but giving "context" to killing ten boars, picking up shit off of the ground, or any other task that I've had to do in MMOs the last 8 years just doesn't do it for me. I don't need a contrived, developer-created story; that's not why I'm playing. If I wanted a story, I would play a single-player game, watch a movie, or read a book. I go in for complex character development, interaction with friends and strangers alike, and to be part of a world. Unfortunately, I also like slick UI with tons of features, nice graphics, smooth controls and good optimization... i.e. a game with a budget.
I'm not trying to stir up another "I hate this generation of MMOs" argument (though it probably will). I'm just saying that devs put too much emphasis on structured questing instead what's really the meat of an MMO... the mechanics. Even games that try to step outside the box a little, like WAR, Rift, and GW2 just dress up the questing, but what if we just removed it?
I've bitched about questing before, and I often just get told "well, you don't have to do them". In theory, I don't, but I'd be sacrificing tons of the benefits that are associated with them; and also the main problem, what would I do instead? So much of the content is designated to the quests that the game would just feel hollow without them. So, I'm just curious, if there is anyone that thinks this way, what would you do, instead, to fill the questing void?
Where is your solution? It seems you don't like devs handing you things yet you are asking us to hand you a solution. Seems odd...
Players got questing put into games. They wanted it and devs responded.
Now if you want to "create your own story", break out a word processor.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
I've seen a few great ideas here, and mine are probably a combination of some of them to a degree. I'd love to see MMOs get back to some of the roots of gaming in general, and how challenges are given to those looking for it. Things like score, time, or rating systems in place for beating a particular challenge would be good, basically building upon achievement or trophy system in place in some games. Games like that, when done right, just have an endless and timeless amount of content.
I also don't know why the genre didn't pick up more attributes from the early success of UO prior to EA. Creating a wide open world of content with many options in how you go about your virtual time, essentially a sandbox without any questing but plenty of NPC activity, should be a priority for MMOs. Things are so instanced and split from the community in many theme park MMOs these days that it feels like it's losing the Massively Multiplayer Online core of the genre. Then you also get some sandboxes that are completely lifeless if the players are too spread out, where activity and conversation should happen with any number of the NPC elements to involve the player in the world. These encounters should help develop places and cities where the player feels more comfortable hanging out for long periods of time with friends doing menial roleplaying things like with professions or crafting, combined with alternate paths where players can develop their own adventures like going off to find dragon caves, lost treasures, etc. etc.
It just seems like these ideas would cost a company less in the long run because a lot of the content would become player-created fun so long as there is a cool place for us to find, but instead some of these developers think it's about adding some new quirk in to the type of quests we get, just so we could fly a baloon to kill 50 golems instead of just going to spot A to kill 10 golems. I'd love to see questing just be thrown out of an MMO's design completely. It isn't needed, and will always feel like just another name for grinding levels. A living, breathing sandbox will easily trump theme parks if the world feels like it involves the player without any need for "!" and "?" above people's heads. Maybe you have to talk to several NPCs to hear a story or hint about where some of these dragon caves are in the world, but please don't make us collect the head and claw from 5 dragons in a cave because this NPC wants dragon soup for lunch. That crap needs to stop!!! Make the accessible conversations from NPCs be entirely about hints that elude to where to go if you want to know more about this town's lore, a region's rumor of hidden treasure, a place in a south-easterly direction that has all the resources one would need to be a hermit and never be disturbed by outsiders so the unsocial know where to build a hut, or give us info on a strange new species that has appeared up north if you can survive the climb up Mt. Coolbutter to study these creatures. Maybe they secretly study the pagan ritual of chocolate creation, and could teach the player if you bring cookies. That would bring some much needed player driven adventure back to MMORPGs!
One thing they had in Lineage that actually helped was that they didnt had quests to kill orcs but they had a bounty so if you killed orcs their tribal markings dropped and you could turn that in to a NPC for a reward.
That sure beat killing 10 orcs quests at least.
But I think that quests should stay but they need to be huge and epic instead of menial work. More throwing the one ring in mount doom, less delivering a letter to someone standing 12 feets away.
Quests also need multiple solutions and to stop telling me what exactly to do.
And there needs to be fewer quests, we need something else to point players to menial work than quests. It is a quest to find the holy grail but it aint a quest to go down in a cellar and kill a few rats, not even close. The word "quest" have been missused in MMOs a long time.
Rift have an alternative way of leveling called Instant Adventure. It's fun, social and sometimes faster then "standard" questing. Along the way you encounter game's dynamic content like Rifts, Invasions and Zone Events. It's very nice way of breaking the "routine".
EDIT: They're now implementing it in the mid-level zones.
One thing they had in Lineage that actually helped was that they didnt had quests to kill orcs but they had a bounty so if you killed orcs their tribal markings dropped and you could turn that in to a NPC for a reward.
That sure beat killing 10 orcs quests at least.
Camelot had those as well. It's a far better system, as it doesn't interrupt a good dungeon crawl with group mates the way the artificial "Quests" do. And its not nearly as pretentious as trying to pretend all those hundreds of quests are important.
Hmm maybe I'm just simple minded, but isn't the general idea of playing video games to go on a so called quest? Anything with a story that puts you in adventure/action/journey/whatever is a quest to save/rescue/fix/win/whatever something?
I guess besides fighting, deathmatch, rythm style games.
I always believed though that MMOs should be community driven if it wanted to get away from quest hubs, but the problem with this is that the game would need a effective population for any progress to happen. That is for the most part the game would be some sort of career or job for some people to play the "vendor, crafter, leader, quest giver" to populate towns etc.
You want to build a house, to build a house you need various items which you can get from loot but you also need some tools which you get not from a quest but by exploring for them.
Naturally that can be extended to making just about anything. Basically look at real life as a comparision. Most of us have little mini projects we are doing and we dont need a quest to tell us to go get xyz because we already know we need it for something.
That sounds kind of like a Minecraft multiplayer server, only potentially more fun if you add actual combat and skills.
One way, IMO, is instead of questing (NPC requests in some way that you do x, then y, then get reward), is to have events happen in the world. The world then changes based on what you do, or don't do. These can be triggered by things you do while exploring, interacting with NPCs, finishing (or failing) another event, or just by random action. Random to you, anyway, there very well could be an underlying reason for the event (invasion, etc.).
Couple that with the downtime activities like exploring and crafting, and throw in a good amount of player usable content (manipulating the world, such as building, etc.) and I think you could go a long way toward getting rid of the typical questing system.
Most importantly, though, is to make even the questing seem to the player to have an actual effect on the world.
Sounds great evolver except for the fact that it is complete fantasy!
Care to explain how a world will change depending on what you do? Remember there are thousands of other players in this game too. Only 2 things can happen. You can destroy something or you can build something. Thats it. And that describes your basic sandbox game.
Interacting with NPC's is complete fantasy. That would require massive game AI to cope with all possible situations. There is not going to be a game anytime soon that you can interact with NPC's in anything other than a scripted manner. Sorry, we don't have the Enterprise computer just yet.
Always amazes me how people think just anything can be done in a multiplayer game!! Think about it!
I guess I wasn't clear enough. I meant the collective "you" rather than the singular "you"
Ok I buy that, thank you for clarifying.
Also, interacting with NPC's isn't a fantasy at all. Many games already do that outside of the MMO world. How hard would it be to kick off an event based on an answer you give to an NPC? Or if you kill that NPC? Obviously at this point those interactions would have to be limited but it's definitely possible.
That is simply a scripted event as in a quest. How is it different? If you as an individual kill that NPC and they are permanently dead you have changed the world. But where does the game go from there? Does it create a new NPC to compensaate for the one you just killed. Because basically what you have done is destroyed content for the next player. You could kill all the NPC's but what does that accomplish? I fail to see what you are expecting from these events.
And, there are some games that do change, at least temporarily, depending on what players, collectively, do. For instance, some games use dynamic layering so that the world is different for you compared to other players that haven't done what you have done already (LotRO comes to mind). There are also other games where if you fail to say, push back an invasion, the invaders will set up camp and push further into the world. Unless you and/or other players rout them and kick them out of there. That then leads to pushing them back further. (GW2 is what I'm thinking here)
Could you give me an example of LotRO as I am not familiar with it. And I agree with you that GW2 is trying to change things but these are the limits to what they can do, or do you not think they would have done more if they could? And on top of that, the OP has already stated that this still did not make GW2 seem like a "living world" in his mind.
These things aren't a pipe dream. They are already here in certain ways. Mostly those ways are even persistent until other players deal with the situation, i.e. a town stays overrun until players liberate it.
They may not be pipe dreams but they are still dreams and in my opinion a long ways off from becoming reality. Who knows, to me it all depends on the technology we have available, and also the cost involved to create it. Look at what Bioware produced with all the money they spent. Imagine what it would take to create the game that you envision. Others have said it here before. No company is going to invest that kind of money in a game. Period.
Period.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
Originally posted by blognorg I'm tired of doing game-manufactured quests. I'm sorry, but giving "context" to killing ten boars, picking up shit off of the ground, or any other task that I've had to do in MMOs the last 8 years just doesn't do it for me. I don't need a contrived, developer-created story; that's not why I'm playing. If I wanted a story, I would play a single-player game, watch a movie, or read a book. I go in for complex character development, interaction with friends and strangers alike, and to be part of a world. Unfortunately, I also like slick UI with tons of features, nice graphics, smooth controls and good optimization... i.e. a game with a budget. I'm not trying to stir up another "I hate this generation of MMOs" argument (though it probably will). I'm just saying that devs put too much emphasis on structured questing instead what's really the meat of an MMO... the mechanics. Even games that try to step outside the box a little, like WAR, Rift, and GW2 just dress up the questing, but what if we just removed it?I've bitched about questing before, and I often just get told "well, you don't have to do them". In theory, I don't, but I'd be sacrificing tons of the benefits that are associated with them; and also the main problem, what would I do instead? So much of the content is designated to the quests that the game would just feel hollow without them. So, I'm just curious, if there is anyone that thinks this way, what would you do, instead, to fill the questing void?
Character development? Could you be more specific here? You mean stats development, story development, phyical appearance development? Generally you get all these in a quest based story line.Interaction with friends. So your friends and you are all standing around around in this big virtual world. Hmmm, what do we do now. Kill each other? Go pub hopping and regale ourselves with stories of previous virtual world gaming heroics? Build something? I guess what I am asking is could you be more specific, please?To be part of a world. The only game that has given me that feeling is Skyrim and it has quests. Maybe if you were more specific....?Being part of a world equates to time consuming, IMO. Which is obviously why you are rarely seeing these games anymore. Most people now want their games to be fun and not time consuming, which "virtual worlds " tend to be, IMO. Perhaps someday your game will come along but i would not be holding my breath. I can empathize with what you are looking for, though in a vague nonspecific way. Good luck in finding it.
I could be more specific, but I'd end up just getting into all the details of a game that I would want to play, and they would not necessarily resonate with the everyone who is anti-quest. I'll give you what I can. When I refer to complex character development, I'm referring to the mechanics (as I alluded to). I don't find the idea picking a skill tree particularly interesting. In my opinion, games focus too much on balance; it makes the experience dull. I played both WoW and Rift, and every time that I'd try a new class or a new build, it would feel the same. Games try to make every build viable. Let me screw up a build; let me learn from it. Also, because there aren't really any other aspects to combat besides the rate of damage, every skills is essentially measured on the same metric, and there's really only so much you can do with that. There need to be more aspects and different types of damage that can be done. The combat itself needs to be more interesting, rather than simply giving it context.My main problem with quests is that I don't feel like the goals in the game are being set by me. You mentioned Skyrim, but I hardly did any of the quests in that game. The ones I did do were boring and disappointing. I focused more on building an optimal character and exploring the world. The problem with Skyrim (and its successor), in my opinion is the level scaling. It tends to trivialize the character goals that I set for myself. While MMOs don't have level scaling, I get that same feeling of dissatisfaction from so much contrived content that I can really only conform to what the game wants me to do. The goals I set, aren't necessarily complicated ones, but they're still something that I think of for me to do. I don't want to go into a cave because someone wants me to; I want to into it to see what's in there.I was super-excited about GW2 before the betas. It got rid of quests, it kept content fresh with level scaling, and teaming up with people was effortless and intuitive. Once I got in, though, I didn't find myself having all that much fun. In fact, I could hardly play for more than an hour without getting bored. It still felt like I was having the same experience that I'd been having for the last few years. I was just being herded around, being told what to do. They promote freedom and exploration, but I just didn't feel it. The zone felt more restrictive than I had anticipated and practically every square inch of the game was coated in structured content. It didn't feel like a living, breathing world as I had hoped. I think that comes down so much of the content being NPCs and repeated, game-run scenarios. Even the player interaction felt pretty stifled. I hardly spoke to anyone, and vice versa. In fact, many of my interactions with other players in the events just felt like other NPCs. You talk about games becoming about constant "fun", but I don't think constant stimulation is the key long-term fun. Sometimes less is more. It's like the different between chess and some other board game that has a lot of rules and bells and whistles. I'm not sure that extravagant content is the key to enjoyment. Simpler concepts which allow more player freedom seem more appealing to me. And example is that in one game that I played there was this drop that, when used, spawned a random monster. It was simple, but I had more fun using those than any quest I've ever experienced. Another thing would be more flexible character development (using the same definition that I established). This goes back to my other point about the lack of combat diversity. Different character builds could utilize completely different damage types and strategies. I think pre-battle strategy can be just as fun and important as the executpü
Wouldn´t it be nice if there was a random MMO generator? One where you could just tick off the boxes of the things you wanted. Genre , sandbox or theme, questing or no questing , skill tree or no skill tree, housing, crafting etc, etc... Except the problem is, there just isn´t one yet. I like your point about balance. How many people do you see complaining ``I was playing Swords of Awsomeness recently but I quit because the combat was just too balanced, and I really wanted to get my ass kicked!`` But to take your point further, would it not be interesting if instead of a skill tree, the game would just give you a random skill. Then you would be forced to adapt to what the game gives you. Likely this would require co-oping with someone whose skills complement yours in order to survive. And yet you would still have to adapt because the next skill could completely change your character! Just tick that box for that feature. Do you think many people would choose it?I haven't got too far into Skyrim, but I had a character started and felt that I didn't like the way he was shaping up. I was completely aghast at the thought of running through previous content again with a new character. But I was incredibly surprised when I found myself doing things differently and I actually enjoyed Bleak Falls Barrow better the second time I did it. Skyrim is a vast improvement over Oblivion where it really did feel like you were simply running the same dungeon or crypt over and over. I see that as hope that game developers are trying to broaden the experience as much as they can.I have no experience with GW2 as of yet. You mentioned that you wanted it to feel like a "living, breathing world". Would you not say that you were setting yourself up for failure there? It is not a living breathing world. It is a developers attempt at a living breathing world that will appeal to a large majority of gamers. Why? Because it has to! That it the nature of the business. Look how long it took to develop and how much it cost! Did you think that if they made it imbalanced and with no story or at least some type of quest progression that it would be popular?So many people are looking for the same thing as you, something diffrerent. The problem is, that different, is different from you and all the others. So until we have that MMO generator, I don't see how we are going to solve your problem in the near future. Perhaps soon there will be another game that you are at least able to tolerate. GW2 will be successful, no matter how many people on these forums say it sucks. But with people complaining as you are for the last 5 years or so, to stop giving us the same old same old, maybe someone has heard the message and will give us something fresh and new in the next 5 years. And I will be as happy as you when that happens.
Haha. An MMO generator would be totally awesome. However, if that did exist, then everyone would just be playing their own MMO.... It may create a new set of issues. It would just be ORPGs (online role playing games) Instead of taking the RPG out of MMORPG, it would be taking the MM out of it.
I didn't care for the quests in Skyrim, but it had outstanding world and dungeon design. Even 200 hours in, I would still stop and take in the scenery occasionally. I agree that it was a vast improvement over Oblivion. In fact, I think it may have improved upon it in every single way... and I loved Oblivion.
GW2 will be successful, and that's fine. I don't dislike the game. It just might not be really be what I want out of an MMO. Who knows, once it actually releases and I have a chance to really sink my teeth into it, I may come around. But as my first impression stands, I can't see getting hopelessly lost in it.
Despite Guild Wars 2 touting its uniqueness, it still made a lot of concessions to appeal to the masses. Like the heart quests, for instance. They were only added in to accommodate the "WoW crowd". That being said, I still think that there is a market for a game that really stands out. I mean look at DayZ's popularity. And it's basically just an old school MMO. Also, I think that companies are learning that trying to play it safe as possible isn't necessarily the best approach (i.e. cloning the big dog). If there are a few more examples of successful games that stray from the box, we may start to see some seriously unique MMOs emerge.
I'm tired of doing game-manufactured quests. I'm sorry, but giving "context" to killing ten boars, picking up shit off of the ground, or any other task that I've had to do in MMOs the last 8 years just doesn't do it for me. I don't need a contrived, developer-created story; that's not why I'm playing. If I wanted a story, I would play a single-player game, watch a movie, or read a book. I go in for complex character development, interaction with friends and strangers alike, and to be part of a world. Unfortunately, I also like slick UI with tons of features, nice graphics, smooth controls and good optimization... i.e. a game with a budget.
I'm not trying to stir up another "I hate this generation of MMOs" argument (though it probably will). I'm just saying that devs put too much emphasis on structured questing instead what's really the meat of an MMO... the mechanics. Even games that try to step outside the box a little, like WAR, Rift, and GW2 just dress up the questing, but what if we just removed it?
I've bitched about questing before, and I often just get told "well, you don't have to do them". In theory, I don't, but I'd be sacrificing tons of the benefits that are associated with them; and also the main problem, what would I do instead? So much of the content is designated to the quests that the game would just feel hollow without them. So, I'm just curious, if there is anyone that thinks this way, what would you do, instead, to fill the questing void?
If you make a combat centric game then you need to have killing in the game. If you have killing in combat centric game theres only two (3) viable methods to progress. Camping mobs that yield the best XP per hour (EQ, AC and DAoC) or Questing (WoW, Rift, SWToR) or Exploration looking for things to kil land do (No one has successfully made a MMO to empass this, AC came close and GW is trying to bridge the divide). Theres no two ways about it, you have to do killing in a combat centric game. If you want a crafting centric game then you have games like Xyson, Eve, Wurm and Minecraft. None of those games appeal to the larger broader base hence their niche'ability.
Sorry if you dont want to quest and you want to kill to progress there no other feasible ways to do it.
Playing: GW2 Waiting on: TESO Next Flop: Planetside 2 Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
Camelot had those as well. It's a far better system, as it doesn't interrupt a good dungeon crawl with group mates the way the artificial "Quests" do. And its not nearly as pretentious as trying to pretend all those hundreds of quests are important.
Agreed. I am not against quests but I hate trash quests. EQ2s HQs are fun for example, long, multiplayer and often hard with a good reward you will keep for a while. If they now only didnt tell you exactly what to do all the time and had multiple ways of doing them things would be great.
But all trashquest should be replaced or removed and this is one way of getting rid of a lot of them. If I want to kill orcs now I can but I wont have a specific number I must farm them too.
Another thing I might add. Instead of kil ltasks and Fed-Ex style questing that takes place in the span of minutes use Asheron's Call as a starting block for how quests should be designed. An example is:
Use the Portal to Bur at 67.4N 30.5E. Stick left until you come to the portal to Kor-Gursha.
Go East to the Collector Golem and keep going East from him to Scout Leader Tmauruk(speak to him) and the Guruk Kill task guys. Then take northern most East Tunnel From here. To the Southern Catacombs.
Stick right past Guruk and use ROCK next to Temple of the Three, Ritual Chambers portal to enter Upper Catacombs.
The statue Roderick mentions is in the fourth room from the south in the east hallway on the right (east side of hallway running north to south). The statue will teleport you into the Falatacot Visitor's Alcove.
In the first dungeon, head right at the T-junction. Use the second door you come across and follow through. Do NOT jump into any pits, you will not be able to get out. You go down once, then up twice. The second door going up, stop and clear the spawn if you can.
Eventually reach a big, empty room. There is a floor lever just inside the room. Use this plate to spawn the statue and about 10 guards. After a few minutes you will receive a message that the statue's eyes have lit up and you can now use the statue to portal onto the next dungeon. You MUST hit that level to spawn the statue. Depending on where the guards spawn, you may be able to close the door and wait outside for the statue to charge up. If not, you can run around inside the room for a few minutes, dodging spells, until it is good.
In the next dungeon go right and down at the junction and follow it through to the end. When you reach a door, behind that is the empty room and the statue. As you go in seven Blood Priestesses and an Elite Zharalim Agent will spawn -- retreat into the hallway and close the door until the statue charges, or run around the room dodging them.
NOTE: The far wall behind the statues can be used to be avoided by the casters, and eventually even the melee types will get tired of you. If you die, you can run back quickly, and both statues might still be up.
NOTE: You must have the Diplomatic Message on you to use the statues.
Note: It is not necessary to use the corpse of the Elite Zharalim Agent (a yellow dot, NPC corpse) to use the statue.
Get to the end of the last dungeon and talk to the Falatacot Herald. He will take your Note...IMMEDIATELY run up and around the platform behind him! Several very tough monsters* will spawn. Tip: If you are an archer or mage, perch from the platform above the mob. Be careful the Laisu Sclavus casts Poison Health (20% lower health for 5 minutes) and there is no shortcut back.
Your job is to kill the Blood Priestesses. One of them holds the Trinket you need to give to Roderick. The Blood Priestesses are IMPERIL VULNERABLE to COLD. If you can Imperil them, they go down to cold weapons incredibly fast. If you are a mage, Yield them (Magic def is over 500), and do the normal fire undead slayer beat down.
If soloing: talk to the Herald and quickly jump up to the platform and wait, after a period of time the spawned creatures will ignore you allowing you to vuln and pull the Priestesses over one by one.
If running multiple characters: Only 1 character in 3 needs to give the message. Pick the one with Lockpick, so he can easily get his next time. Note that if you talk to Roderick before giving him the trinket, he will replace your message, even if you gave it already (he's assuming you died).
One of the Blood Priestesses will drop three Falatacot Blood Prophetess Trinkets that you must return to Roderick for XP and the title "Expendable". (If your fellowship is more than 3, the Herald respawns very quickly).
Recall Last Portal. If you went to Bur right from Roderick, this brings you back to the Mite Maze. Head back up to Roderick for your reward.
If you speak to the NPC a 2nd time, he will give you a ride to Teth
Quests such as this might take hours to complete and reward the player with vast sums of XP and Gold plus a really nice item. You can expand upon this and make them as detailed and long as you want them to. Also you can have some shorter quests and random exploration like in Skyrim. IN fact this style of questing is my all time favorite and it comes from an MMO that is 14 years old.
Playing: GW2 Waiting on: TESO Next Flop: Planetside 2 Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
Originally posted by blognorgI'm tired of doing game-manufactured quests. I'm sorry, but giving "context" to killing ten boars, picking up shit off of the ground, or any other task that I've had to do in MMOs the last 8 years just doesn't do it for me. I don't need a contrived, developer-created story; that's not why I'm playing. If I wanted a story, I would play a single-player game, watch a movie, or read a book. I go in for complex character development, interaction with friends and strangers alike, and to be part of a world. Unfortunately, I also like slick UI with tons of features, nice graphics, smooth controls and good optimization... i.e. a game with a budget.I'm not trying to stir up another "I hate this generation of MMOs" argument (though it probably will). I'm just saying that devs put too much emphasis on structured questing instead what's really the meat of an MMO... the mechanics. Even games that try to step outside the box a little, like WAR, Rift, and GW2 just dress up the questing, but what if we just removed it?I've bitched about questing before, and I often just get told "well, you don't have to do them". In theory, I don't, but I'd be sacrificing tons of the benefits that are associated with them; and also the main problem, what would I do instead? So much of the content is designated to the quests that the game would just feel hollow without them. So, I'm just curious, if there is anyone that thinks this way, what would you do, instead, to fill the questing void?
Where is your solution? It seems you don't like devs handing you things yet you are asking us to hand you a solution. Seems odd...Players got questing put into games. They wanted it and devs responded.Now if you want to "create your own story", break out a word processor.
Haha. it's funny you should mention that, because I actually do have a 50 page google doc of ideas. However, it's really disjointed and unorganized. A few months ago, I started consolidating the ideas in an abridged format in a new doc. I'm nowhere near done with it yet, and even that it is like 12 pages of bullet points. It'll probably be 60-80 pages once I finish and add in all of the descriptions.
What can we have instead of questing? Economy centric gameplay Killing an animal for its hide to make clothing. Keeping an area clear of bandits so players can continue to grow crops/raise livestock Hold competitions based around creativity own a piece of land. build something permanent there for others to see
or you can find new ways to do the same shit we've been doing since this genre started:
Kill ten rats with a possible trigger to kill a giant rat Kill ten rats with the moral choice to spare their offspring Kill ten rats by breaking the secret code and sneaking into their lair Kill ten rats with actual player skill Kill five rats instead of ten with this convenient cash shop item Kill ten rats without a sub fee Kill ten rats without a holy trinity Kill ten space rats Kill ten rats with animation lock Kill ten rats with optional barrel roll Kill ten rats for gear Kill ten rats for "fun" Kill ten rats in a seamless world Kill ten rats in a personal story Kill ten rats to gain a level Kill ten rats to earn skill points Kill ten rats with found objects Kill ten rats with diplomacy Kill ten rats in order to kill ten more Kill ten rats with a companion Kill ten rats so you can leave a zone Kill ten rats at randomly repeating locations
Another thing I might add. Instead of kil ltasks and Fed-Ex style questing that takes place in the span of minutes use Asheron's Call as a starting block for how quests should be designed. An example is:
Use the Portal to Bur at 67.4N 30.5E. Stick left until you come to the portal to Kor-Gursha.
Go East to the Collector Golem and keep going East from him to Scout Leader Tmauruk(speak to him) and the Guruk Kill task guys. Then take northern most East Tunnel From here. To the Southern Catacombs.
Stick right past Guruk and use ROCK next to Temple of the Three, Ritual Chambers portal to enter Upper Catacombs.
The statue Roderick mentions is in the fourth room from the south in the east hallway on the right (east side of hallway running north to south). The statue will teleport you into the Falatacot Visitor's Alcove.
In the first dungeon, head right at the T-junction. Use the second door you come across and follow through. Do NOT jump into any pits, you will not be able to get out. You go down once, then up twice. The second door going up, stop and clear the spawn if you can.
Eventually reach a big, empty room. There is a floor lever just inside the room. Use this plate to spawn the statue and about 10 guards. After a few minutes you will receive a message that the statue's eyes have lit up and you can now use the statue to portal onto the next dungeon. You MUST hit that level to spawn the statue. Depending on where the guards spawn, you may be able to close the door and wait outside for the statue to charge up. If not, you can run around inside the room for a few minutes, dodging spells, until it is good.
In the next dungeon go right and down at the junction and follow it through to the end. When you reach a door, behind that is the empty room and the statue. As you go in seven Blood Priestesses and an Elite Zharalim Agent will spawn -- retreat into the hallway and close the door until the statue charges, or run around the room dodging them.
NOTE: The far wall behind the statues can be used to be avoided by the casters, and eventually even the melee types will get tired of you. If you die, you can run back quickly, and both statues might still be up.
NOTE: You must have the Diplomatic Message on you to use the statues.
Note: It is not necessary to use the corpse of the Elite Zharalim Agent (a yellow dot, NPC corpse) to use the statue.
Get to the end of the last dungeon and talk to the Falatacot Herald. He will take your Note...IMMEDIATELY run up and around the platform behind him! Several very tough monsters* will spawn. Tip: If you are an archer or mage, perch from the platform above the mob. Be careful the Laisu Sclavus casts Poison Health (20% lower health for 5 minutes) and there is no shortcut back.
Your job is to kill the Blood Priestesses. One of them holds the Trinket you need to give to Roderick. The Blood Priestesses are IMPERIL VULNERABLE to COLD. If you can Imperil them, they go down to cold weapons incredibly fast. If you are a mage, Yield them (Magic def is over 500), and do the normal fire undead slayer beat down.
If soloing: talk to the Herald and quickly jump up to the platform and wait, after a period of time the spawned creatures will ignore you allowing you to vuln and pull the Priestesses over one by one.
If running multiple characters: Only 1 character in 3 needs to give the message. Pick the one with Lockpick, so he can easily get his next time. Note that if you talk to Roderick before giving him the trinket, he will replace your message, even if you gave it already (he's assuming you died).
One of the Blood Priestesses will drop three Falatacot Blood Prophetess Trinkets that you must return to Roderick for XP and the title "Expendable". (If your fellowship is more than 3, the Herald respawns very quickly).
Recall Last Portal. If you went to Bur right from Roderick, this brings you back to the Mite Maze. Head back up to Roderick for your reward.
If you speak to the NPC a 2nd time, he will give you a ride to Teth
Quests such as this might take hours to complete and reward the player with vast sums of XP and Gold plus a really nice item. You can expand upon this and make them as detailed and long as you want them to. Also you can have some shorter quests and random exploration like in Skyrim. IN fact this style of questing is my all time favorite and it comes from an MMO that is 14 years old.
I dunno, it seems to tell you exactly what to do in detail and it feels like a bit of handholding.
I like quests like "Stop the bandits that plunder travelers in the Twilight woods".
So you could pretend to be a traveller, wait for them to attack and just kill them but that would be hard qand not give you much loot. Or you could try to find their camp and sneak in and poison their beerkegs and food. Or you could after you find the camp seduce or threaten their leader or a few other things.
Quests usually are too much hand holding and never makes you think. A quest should be a goal that could be reached in multiple ways.
Otherwise is that quest fine though since it is epic enough instead of just a menial task, but it still feels like handholding. AC was a great game and it is too bad that most of its unique ideas just died with the game instead of being evolved in newer MMOs.
My answer to the question is simple. Choose your own adventure...
Say the game has 8 classes and 8 races, each class/race combination has their own questline, but during certain points of the dynamic leveling system, each individual character would be presented with a option. Do they go left or right, each one has it's own destination and path. Each path branches several times, maybe once every 10 levels or so.
I will use Everquests Epic questline as an example, only starting at level 1...
You start out as a Human Monk in Qeynos. Upon creation you find out that a sacred relic has been stolen from your monestary or clan. You catch wind that the theif could have went to either Blackburrow or Qeynos Sewers. You decide which one and set out on your adventure where you are confronted with enemies and events which help advance your character. After you finish at that place, the story unfolds further and you have a new choice to make, that will further your adventure.
So basicly, each character has one quest, and it is constantly changing. Along this course your character ages and grows, building his own home and starting his secondary proffession i.e. tradeskills. It could take the grandest of themeparks and combine them with the vastness of a sandbox. You can progress the story as you wish, or grind out tradeskill items as you wish. For your farm, in West Karana...
Make it a dynamic world, where the NPC vendors are only available for the first few months or until an player "Buys them out" or places a shop nearby to cut into their business.
This of course would take a sizeable team of writers and development time.
Damnit, now where do I apply for the EQNext writers team?:p
Originally posted by waynejr2Where is your solution? It seems you don't like devs handing you things yet you are asking us to hand you a solution. Seems odd...Players got questing put into games. They wanted it and devs responded.Now if you want to "create your own story", break out a word processor.
Players did not get questing into the games, it was in from Start.
When I logged in to Meridian 59 for the first time in 1996 there was a NPC standing next to me asking me to go to the moat and kill 10 rats in it (true story) and that was the first MMO long before UO and EQ and the game was just out.
Another thing I might add. Instead of kil ltasks and Fed-Ex style questing that takes place in the span of minutes use Asheron's Call as a starting block for how quests should be designed. An example is:
Use the Portal to Bur at 67.4N 30.5E. Stick left until you come to the portal to Kor-Gursha.
Go East to the Collector Golem and keep going East from him to Scout Leader Tmauruk(speak to him) and the Guruk Kill task guys. Then take northern most East Tunnel From here. To the Southern Catacombs.
Stick right past Guruk and use ROCK next to Temple of the Three, Ritual Chambers portal to enter Upper Catacombs.
The statue Roderick mentions is in the fourth room from the south in the east hallway on the right (east side of hallway running north to south). The statue will teleport you into the Falatacot Visitor's Alcove.
In the first dungeon, head right at the T-junction. Use the second door you come across and follow through. Do NOT jump into any pits, you will not be able to get out. You go down once, then up twice. The second door going up, stop and clear the spawn if you can.
Eventually reach a big, empty room. There is a floor lever just inside the room. Use this plate to spawn the statue and about 10 guards. After a few minutes you will receive a message that the statue's eyes have lit up and you can now use the statue to portal onto the next dungeon. You MUST hit that level to spawn the statue. Depending on where the guards spawn, you may be able to close the door and wait outside for the statue to charge up. If not, you can run around inside the room for a few minutes, dodging spells, until it is good.
In the next dungeon go right and down at the junction and follow it through to the end. When you reach a door, behind that is the empty room and the statue. As you go in seven Blood Priestesses and an Elite Zharalim Agent will spawn -- retreat into the hallway and close the door until the statue charges, or run around the room dodging them.
NOTE: The far wall behind the statues can be used to be avoided by the casters, and eventually even the melee types will get tired of you. If you die, you can run back quickly, and both statues might still be up.
NOTE: You must have the Diplomatic Message on you to use the statues.
Note: It is not necessary to use the corpse of the Elite Zharalim Agent (a yellow dot, NPC corpse) to use the statue.
Get to the end of the last dungeon and talk to the Falatacot Herald. He will take your Note...IMMEDIATELY run up and around the platform behind him! Several very tough monsters* will spawn. Tip: If you are an archer or mage, perch from the platform above the mob. Be careful the Laisu Sclavus casts Poison Health (20% lower health for 5 minutes) and there is no shortcut back.
Your job is to kill the Blood Priestesses. One of them holds the Trinket you need to give to Roderick. The Blood Priestesses are IMPERIL VULNERABLE to COLD. If you can Imperil them, they go down to cold weapons incredibly fast. If you are a mage, Yield them (Magic def is over 500), and do the normal fire undead slayer beat down.
If soloing: talk to the Herald and quickly jump up to the platform and wait, after a period of time the spawned creatures will ignore you allowing you to vuln and pull the Priestesses over one by one.
If running multiple characters: Only 1 character in 3 needs to give the message. Pick the one with Lockpick, so he can easily get his next time. Note that if you talk to Roderick before giving him the trinket, he will replace your message, even if you gave it already (he's assuming you died).
One of the Blood Priestesses will drop three Falatacot Blood Prophetess Trinkets that you must return to Roderick for XP and the title "Expendable". (If your fellowship is more than 3, the Herald respawns very quickly).
Recall Last Portal. If you went to Bur right from Roderick, this brings you back to the Mite Maze. Head back up to Roderick for your reward.
If you speak to the NPC a 2nd time, he will give you a ride to Teth
Quests such as this might take hours to complete and reward the player with vast sums of XP and Gold plus a really nice item. You can expand upon this and make them as detailed and long as you want them to. Also you can have some shorter quests and random exploration like in Skyrim. IN fact this style of questing is my all time favorite and it comes from an MMO that is 14 years old.
I dunno, it seems to tell you exactly what to do in detail and it feels like a bit of handholding.
I like quests like "Stop the bandits that plunder travelers in the Twilight woods".
So you could pretend to be a traveller, wait for them to attack and just kill them but that would be hard qand not give you much loot. Or you could try to find their camp and sneak in and poison their beerkegs and food. Or you could after you find the camp seduce or threaten their leader or a few other things.
Quests usually are too much hand holding and never makes you think. A quest should be a goal that could be reached in multiple ways.
Otherwise is that quest fine though since it is epic enough instead of just a menial task, but it still feels like handholding. AC was a great game and it is too bad that most of its unique ideas just died with the game instead of being evolved in newer MMOs.
That is just a wiki guide to doing that particular quest. In actuality how it plays out is this:
You walk into an Inn at a small village and the bartender or someone else (wtihout the use of ? or ! to guide you) tells you that there is a madman in a dungeon outside of town going on about some vast arcane scerecy. Your goal is to find that madman and there may be 5-6 dungeons for you to look into. Each of those may or maynot have other quests or mini bosses in them. Once you find the madman he then gives you some wierd note that you would need to get translated, from there you are told there is a dungeon in the far northern mountains where you can find a statue that the madmans note speaks of. Fro mthere the quest jsut cascades. Or you can be a spoiler and follow the wiki. Its one of the main reasons why I loved TSW's questing (well the investigation missions at least) because you could try and decipher them yourself and that was where the accomplishment and fun came from.
As you may note that you may need certain specific items to get into the dungeon, or you may need lockpicking to open sealed doors or a dodge iniana jones style boulders and traps and jumping plays a role into alot of the quests. Theres so much you can do in this style other then go here, kill that.
Playing: GW2 Waiting on: TESO Next Flop: Planetside 2 Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
Automation is almost always boring. The solution is to obviously turn quest giving to a live human; in-game Game's Masters, player driven job boards, and other forms of community generated content.
Comments
There used to be nothing wrong with quests. Just like there used to be nothing wrong with instances. But like instances, WoW and its clones abused it to cover their own design flaws.
In DAOC the quests felt important because they were few and you had to look for them. They were done for the story or a special weapon, not for xp grinding.
For xp grinding there were a handful of repeatable quests, exploration based xp rewards, group bonus xp, bounties, kill tasks, and xp from kills in PvP.
It was a fantastic system that both encouraged grouping, and provided a reasonable well to level if you wanted to solo.
Instead of quests...dynamic events have probably the best impleimentation of quest grinding I've seen so far, but I'd rather have them gone.
I feel like MMOs should expand on what AC did, and do GM run events with big storylines that make meaningful changes to the game world. THAT is where the story of an MMO should come from, not some scripted instanced linear singleplayer thing.
Given the choice I'd rather just kill mobs than do quests. At least that was an honest "grind" rather than a grind that tried to pretend it was awesome and "deep". It allowed you to play with others, explore and go around at your own pace, and generally do what you want without breaking immersion.
Will you guys stop saying that every MMO that isn't a WoW clone is a sandbox, then pretend like that disqualifies someone from a discussion?
Where is your solution? It seems you don't like devs handing you things yet you are asking us to hand you a solution. Seems odd...
Players got questing put into games. They wanted it and devs responded.
Now if you want to "create your own story", break out a word processor.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
TL;DW
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.
I've seen a few great ideas here, and mine are probably a combination of some of them to a degree. I'd love to see MMOs get back to some of the roots of gaming in general, and how challenges are given to those looking for it. Things like score, time, or rating systems in place for beating a particular challenge would be good, basically building upon achievement or trophy system in place in some games. Games like that, when done right, just have an endless and timeless amount of content.
I also don't know why the genre didn't pick up more attributes from the early success of UO prior to EA. Creating a wide open world of content with many options in how you go about your virtual time, essentially a sandbox without any questing but plenty of NPC activity, should be a priority for MMOs. Things are so instanced and split from the community in many theme park MMOs these days that it feels like it's losing the Massively Multiplayer Online core of the genre. Then you also get some sandboxes that are completely lifeless if the players are too spread out, where activity and conversation should happen with any number of the NPC elements to involve the player in the world. These encounters should help develop places and cities where the player feels more comfortable hanging out for long periods of time with friends doing menial roleplaying things like with professions or crafting, combined with alternate paths where players can develop their own adventures like going off to find dragon caves, lost treasures, etc. etc.
It just seems like these ideas would cost a company less in the long run because a lot of the content would become player-created fun so long as there is a cool place for us to find, but instead some of these developers think it's about adding some new quirk in to the type of quests we get, just so we could fly a baloon to kill 50 golems instead of just going to spot A to kill 10 golems. I'd love to see questing just be thrown out of an MMO's design completely. It isn't needed, and will always feel like just another name for grinding levels. A living, breathing sandbox will easily trump theme parks if the world feels like it involves the player without any need for "!" and "?" above people's heads. Maybe you have to talk to several NPCs to hear a story or hint about where some of these dragon caves are in the world, but please don't make us collect the head and claw from 5 dragons in a cave because this NPC wants dragon soup for lunch. That crap needs to stop!!! Make the accessible conversations from NPCs be entirely about hints that elude to where to go if you want to know more about this town's lore, a region's rumor of hidden treasure, a place in a south-easterly direction that has all the resources one would need to be a hermit and never be disturbed by outsiders so the unsocial know where to build a hut, or give us info on a strange new species that has appeared up north if you can survive the climb up Mt. Coolbutter to study these creatures. Maybe they secretly study the pagan ritual of chocolate creation, and could teach the player if you bring cookies. That would bring some much needed player driven adventure back to MMORPGs!
One thing they had in Lineage that actually helped was that they didnt had quests to kill orcs but they had a bounty so if you killed orcs their tribal markings dropped and you could turn that in to a NPC for a reward.
That sure beat killing 10 orcs quests at least.
But I think that quests should stay but they need to be huge and epic instead of menial work. More throwing the one ring in mount doom, less delivering a letter to someone standing 12 feets away.
Quests also need multiple solutions and to stop telling me what exactly to do.
And there needs to be fewer quests, we need something else to point players to menial work than quests. It is a quest to find the holy grail but it aint a quest to go down in a cellar and kill a few rats, not even close. The word "quest" have been missused in MMOs a long time.
Rift have an alternative way of leveling called Instant Adventure. It's fun, social and sometimes faster then "standard" questing. Along the way you encounter game's dynamic content like Rifts, Invasions and Zone Events. It's very nice way of breaking the "routine".
EDIT: They're now implementing it in the mid-level zones.
Camelot had those as well. It's a far better system, as it doesn't interrupt a good dungeon crawl with group mates the way the artificial "Quests" do. And its not nearly as pretentious as trying to pretend all those hundreds of quests are important.
Hmm maybe I'm just simple minded, but isn't the general idea of playing video games to go on a so called quest? Anything with a story that puts you in adventure/action/journey/whatever is a quest to save/rescue/fix/win/whatever something?
I guess besides fighting, deathmatch, rythm style games.
I always believed though that MMOs should be community driven if it wanted to get away from quest hubs, but the problem with this is that the game would need a effective population for any progress to happen. That is for the most part the game would be some sort of career or job for some people to play the "vendor, crafter, leader, quest giver" to populate towns etc.
That sounds kind of like a Minecraft multiplayer server, only potentially more fun if you add actual combat and skills.
Period.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
Haha. An MMO generator would be totally awesome. However, if that did exist, then everyone would just be playing their own MMO.... It may create a new set of issues. It would just be ORPGs (online role playing games) Instead of taking the RPG out of MMORPG, it would be taking the MM out of it.
I didn't care for the quests in Skyrim, but it had outstanding world and dungeon design. Even 200 hours in, I would still stop and take in the scenery occasionally. I agree that it was a vast improvement over Oblivion. In fact, I think it may have improved upon it in every single way... and I loved Oblivion.
GW2 will be successful, and that's fine. I don't dislike the game. It just might not be really be what I want out of an MMO. Who knows, once it actually releases and I have a chance to really sink my teeth into it, I may come around. But as my first impression stands, I can't see getting hopelessly lost in it.
Despite Guild Wars 2 touting its uniqueness, it still made a lot of concessions to appeal to the masses. Like the heart quests, for instance. They were only added in to accommodate the "WoW crowd". That being said, I still think that there is a market for a game that really stands out. I mean look at DayZ's popularity. And it's basically just an old school MMO. Also, I think that companies are learning that trying to play it safe as possible isn't necessarily the best approach (i.e. cloning the big dog). If there are a few more examples of successful games that stray from the box, we may start to see some seriously unique MMOs emerge.
PLOT CREATED: summon demon (components: betrayer, cultists, ritual, summoning chamber)
plot element: ritual not found, generating ... result: research (components: lab, seer, rare reagents; twist:pollution source; duration: 30 days )
plot element rare reagent not found, generating ... result: mutagen
mutagen pollution simulated ... result: giant rats (components: subspecies stats)
rat lair generating ... acquiring treasure ... calculating wandering spawn radius ... detection level: rumour
.............................
Welcome to our village adventurer, can I interest you in ...
+ village offerings
+ village needs
+ rumour: giant rats
If you make a combat centric game then you need to have killing in the game. If you have killing in combat centric game theres only two (3) viable methods to progress. Camping mobs that yield the best XP per hour (EQ, AC and DAoC) or Questing (WoW, Rift, SWToR) or Exploration looking for things to kil land do (No one has successfully made a MMO to empass this, AC came close and GW is trying to bridge the divide). Theres no two ways about it, you have to do killing in a combat centric game. If you want a crafting centric game then you have games like Xyson, Eve, Wurm and Minecraft. None of those games appeal to the larger broader base hence their niche'ability.
Sorry if you dont want to quest and you want to kill to progress there no other feasible ways to do it.
Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online
Playing: GW2
Waiting on: TESO
Next Flop: Planetside 2
Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
Agreed. I am not against quests but I hate trash quests. EQ2s HQs are fun for example, long, multiplayer and often hard with a good reward you will keep for a while. If they now only didnt tell you exactly what to do all the time and had multiple ways of doing them things would be great.
But all trashquest should be replaced or removed and this is one way of getting rid of a lot of them. If I want to kill orcs now I can but I wont have a specific number I must farm them too.
Another thing I might add. Instead of kil ltasks and Fed-Ex style questing that takes place in the span of minutes use Asheron's Call as a starting block for how quests should be designed. An example is:
Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online
Playing: GW2
Waiting on: TESO
Next Flop: Planetside 2
Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
Haha. it's funny you should mention that, because I actually do have a 50 page google doc of ideas. However, it's really disjointed and unorganized. A few months ago, I started consolidating the ideas in an abridged format in a new doc. I'm nowhere near done with it yet, and even that it is like 12 pages of bullet points. It'll probably be 60-80 pages once I finish and add in all of the descriptions.
LOL looks like Maplestone is going to build the next great MMORPG!! Go Maplestone!!
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
What can we have instead of questing?
Economy centric gameplay
Killing an animal for its hide to make clothing.
Keeping an area clear of bandits so players can continue to grow crops/raise livestock
Hold competitions based around creativity
own a piece of land. build something permanent there for others to see
or you can find new ways to do the same shit we've been doing since this genre started:
Kill ten rats with a possible trigger to kill a giant rat
Kill ten rats with the moral choice to spare their offspring
Kill ten rats by breaking the secret code and sneaking into their lair
Kill ten rats with actual player skill
Kill five rats instead of ten with this convenient cash shop item
Kill ten rats without a sub fee
Kill ten rats without a holy trinity
Kill ten space rats
Kill ten rats with animation lock
Kill ten rats with optional barrel roll
Kill ten rats for gear
Kill ten rats for "fun"
Kill ten rats in a seamless world
Kill ten rats in a personal story
Kill ten rats to gain a level
Kill ten rats to earn skill points
Kill ten rats with found objects
Kill ten rats with diplomacy
Kill ten rats in order to kill ten more
Kill ten rats with a companion
Kill ten rats so you can leave a zone
Kill ten rats at randomly repeating locations
I dunno, it seems to tell you exactly what to do in detail and it feels like a bit of handholding.
I like quests like "Stop the bandits that plunder travelers in the Twilight woods".
So you could pretend to be a traveller, wait for them to attack and just kill them but that would be hard qand not give you much loot. Or you could try to find their camp and sneak in and poison their beerkegs and food. Or you could after you find the camp seduce or threaten their leader or a few other things.
Quests usually are too much hand holding and never makes you think. A quest should be a goal that could be reached in multiple ways.
Otherwise is that quest fine though since it is epic enough instead of just a menial task, but it still feels like handholding. AC was a great game and it is too bad that most of its unique ideas just died with the game instead of being evolved in newer MMOs.
My answer to the question is simple. Choose your own adventure...
Say the game has 8 classes and 8 races, each class/race combination has their own questline, but during certain points of the dynamic leveling system, each individual character would be presented with a option. Do they go left or right, each one has it's own destination and path. Each path branches several times, maybe once every 10 levels or so.
I will use Everquests Epic questline as an example, only starting at level 1...
You start out as a Human Monk in Qeynos. Upon creation you find out that a sacred relic has been stolen from your monestary or clan. You catch wind that the theif could have went to either Blackburrow or Qeynos Sewers. You decide which one and set out on your adventure where you are confronted with enemies and events which help advance your character. After you finish at that place, the story unfolds further and you have a new choice to make, that will further your adventure.
So basicly, each character has one quest, and it is constantly changing. Along this course your character ages and grows, building his own home and starting his secondary proffession i.e. tradeskills. It could take the grandest of themeparks and combine them with the vastness of a sandbox. You can progress the story as you wish, or grind out tradeskill items as you wish. For your farm, in West Karana...
Make it a dynamic world, where the NPC vendors are only available for the first few months or until an player "Buys them out" or places a shop nearby to cut into their business.
This of course would take a sizeable team of writers and development time.
Damnit, now where do I apply for the EQNext writers team?:p
Players did not get questing into the games, it was in from Start.
When I logged in to Meridian 59 for the first time in 1996 there was a NPC standing next to me asking me to go to the moat and kill 10 rats in it (true story) and that was the first MMO long before UO and EQ and the game was just out.
That is just a wiki guide to doing that particular quest. In actuality how it plays out is this:
You walk into an Inn at a small village and the bartender or someone else (wtihout the use of ? or ! to guide you) tells you that there is a madman in a dungeon outside of town going on about some vast arcane scerecy. Your goal is to find that madman and there may be 5-6 dungeons for you to look into. Each of those may or maynot have other quests or mini bosses in them. Once you find the madman he then gives you some wierd note that you would need to get translated, from there you are told there is a dungeon in the far northern mountains where you can find a statue that the madmans note speaks of. Fro mthere the quest jsut cascades. Or you can be a spoiler and follow the wiki. Its one of the main reasons why I loved TSW's questing (well the investigation missions at least) because you could try and decipher them yourself and that was where the accomplishment and fun came from.
As you may note that you may need certain specific items to get into the dungeon, or you may need lockpicking to open sealed doors or a dodge iniana jones style boulders and traps and jumping plays a role into alot of the quests. Theres so much you can do in this style other then go here, kill that.
Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online
Playing: GW2
Waiting on: TESO
Next Flop: Planetside 2
Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
Automation is almost always boring. The solution is to obviously turn quest giving to a live human; in-game Game's Masters, player driven job boards, and other forms of community generated content.
/Osc