If only internet 'journalism' was subject to some sort of editorial rigour....
If the article had been filled with praise then you would be touting as an outstanding work. It is an editorial blog about some of the potential weaknesses in GW2's design. I am a GW2 fan, but I am not so blind that I can't see that these are potential issues. There is no right or wrong when it comes to an opinionated blog and even less so when he addresses some valid concerns. Your feeble attempts to dismiss them are laughable at best.
Originally posted by Syno23 I'm concerned how they're going to raise money for expansions, at what quality, what will endgame be like, things that GW2 cannot service to hardcore players.
they did it very well for guild wars 1 and they didnt even have a store at first dont worry kitten, the milk will be ever so purfect
Originally posted by Mephster Valid concerns that most people have expressed already.
Yes they have. However, as someone else mentioned most of these complaints are about items that Anet has said that they do not want in the game (trinity, gear grind, etc.). I agree with most of the criticism and that is why I won't make GW2 a keeper. I respect ANet for doing something different but look what happened to the other "different" game - TSW. GW2 will make money, a lot of money, but it won't be the next WOW.
The concerns are not unreasonable; on the other hand, if GW2 can't solve those issues, than I would start to think they can't be solved. E.g. people bored at endgame - how can you address that if making the entire game re-playable and scattering new content throughout it doesn't work?
Originally posted by GamerUntouch Seems like the author doesn't understand the design of this game at all.
Agreed. His misunderstanding of the Trinty or how the role he chose to fill was actually an asset of the current system and not a throwback to the Trinity was one example of that.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
1) Communication: in Rift, SWtoR, even WoW, people don't communicate any more than they need to. LFG tools killed that aspect. Group up, do the event, split up and back to solo questing. Imo those desiring social interaction in an MMO going foerward are going to have to make their own. If anything, GW2 eliminates one source of interpersonal friction by the elimination of asshattery like glowy stealing, kill-stealing and jumping ahead to the named while the person who cleared th path is finishing the alst mobs en route.
2) Longevity: At the price of a SP RPG, GW2 only needs to provide about 40-50 hours of content to be cost-effective from a buyer's standpoint. I have already played that long in the 3 BWE's and stress tests and my highest level character had seen about 3% of the game. Assuming the same ratio of time to complete the remaining 90+ percent ... well, you do the math. If GW2 lasts 3 months for me it will be a massive bargain. If it lasts the nearly 3 years I spent in GW1, then even more of a bargain. And if they produce additional content on an ongoing basis like they originally planned to do for GW1, then they will continue to get my money.
I'm not saying the game will be for everyone, but for me, and those who want things similar to what I want, then it will be a good game.
1) How can you include SWTOR in this example when the LFG tool was just recently implemented? Communication has been an issue ever since MMOs have gone mainstream. Developers can throw whatever tools they want, but if the community doesn't want to talk, they are not going to.
2) Agreed, the game (when compared to a SRPG) is comparable price-wise for content. However, they are competing against larger MMOs. I, personally, am not really looking for an MMO to play for only 40-50 hours. I'd rather play one with a much longer sustainability. Subscription cost for me is not an issue. If I want a bargain, hell, I'll pick up a F2P title.
I don't see how combat is so dynamic and different either since it's standard tab-targeting wtih dodge. I've been watching streams since the stress-test yesterday and the combat really doesn't look any different than most MMOs. I wish they would've taken Tera's combat with the dodge + skillshots combat. I just don't see why there is all this hype around the game; maybe it's particularly the no-sub fee?
I actually liked that article. He wasn't bashign the game at all, just bashing the players and thier KNOWN bad behaviors. The same bad behaviors that have caused many a games down fall in the past. All he is saying is that if we the players continue to be who we have been in the past, that this game can also fall to those same issues. And he isnt wrong on any of them, we are that bad on all those areas.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
This pretty much sums up my opinion about this article:
Originally posted by Caliburn101
If only internet 'journalism' was subject to some sort of editorial rigour....
Perjorative language and the use of absolute statements to deal with what at best amount to informed guesses is very poor.
I will deal with each part of the article in order;
1. Will the Community Be Weak?
He starts well enough here - making a valid point many people are worried about. He doesn't however point out the rather obvious fact that judging community interraction from a beta - where there are no permanent guilds, targetted resource farming, dedicated dungeon grouping and grouped people who know each other (not to mention dedicated RP'ers running events) is not representative.
2. Can the Endgame Keep Players Happy for More Than a Couple of Months?
Claiming that 'innevitable claims of boredom' will occur a month or two after launch after addressing what he thinks endgame will involve in one sentence is as ridiculous as comparing the game to SW:TOR - 'cleared in a matter of days'. The clear implication here is of course that large numbers of players will clear the content in a matter of days and then innevitably complain. He fails to address the WvW PvP, the DE/downscaling content model, nor does he have the slightest sensible thing to say about the dungeons or the scale of challenge in the unseen highest level zones. There is simply no balanced assessment here - it is two assumptions piled on top of the smallest of foundations. This would be inadequate enough in a forum post - never mind an article on a major media site.
3. Will the Lack of a Trinity Actually Work?
This one is just amazing. In BWE2, having personally grouped with a 'ragtag group' (as he puts it) and having downed the 'Eater of Ghosts' in that explorable iteration of the Ascalonian Catacombs I was both impressed and pleased at the level of difficulty, the skill and cooperation shown by the group I was with and the innovative ways we managed to deal with things. Having to think about how to make our collective abiities 'fit' over a soution and radically change who did what in each boss encounter was a breath of fresh air. Sorry - all dungeons in all MMOs at first are multiple wipefests if they are well designed. It takes time and effort. This guy clearly likes his challenges dumbed down. Implying that the Dev's he was playing with were 'experts' in PvE and therefore the no-trinity model doesn't work is a the laziest form of tangential reasoning - and entirely invalidates this part of the article. A clear case of garbage in, garbage out.
4. Is There an Infestation of Bugs Waiting to Happen?
Way too much 'biblical catastrophe' language used here - he laces this entire section with doomladen 'innevitabilities' without the slightest reasonable justification. Bitterness exploding on a massive scale? Catastrophic backlash? All this based upon the statement - "if the guesting system fails". Having witnessed a single failure of a single feature in a single beta he cries DOOM! This is about as bias as one can get whilst still trying to look neutral (at least to the most undiscerning of audiences at any rate....).
5. Is Combat Interesting Enough?
The only WOW which should be indulged in this part of the article is the reaction to having the combat part of GW2 compared to WoW combat.... stating that it is dissapointing compared to TERA and too much like WoW is yet another illustration that this review is backed by little more than a cursory glance at combat footage rather than significant hands on experience. The closest combat I have ever played compared to GW2 is Age of Conan - one of the things Funcom actually did right in that game. The experiences in combat the author talks about here are overwhelmingly at odds with the experiences of countless beta players and reflect the limitations of the reviewer far more than they do the game.
I will quote the last paragraph of the article verbatim - as it makes my point for me;
"Nothing to Fear but Fear Itself?
Of course, none of these things are certain. As with every game launch, there are a terrifying number of "what ifs" that'll remain unanswered right up until we start up the final product and jump in to explore. I'll be in there from the first moments on, so you can expect to see me put each of these fears to the test during the review process."
.... personally I would have preferred if the author had put his 'fears' to the test BEFORE writing this rubbish. Anyone using the word 'terrifying' to describe the shortcomings of a game as yet unreleased needs to learn how to express himself in less extreme language - language which could perhaps reflect the true extent and comparative importance of the issues rather than the biased negative hype this review tries to present to the reader as a 'balanced view'.
I have seen less bias critiques by the offices of politicians slagging off their election opponents whilst simultaneously trying to make their candidate seem statesmanlike.
I've had my morning cofee and am in a good mood - so I'll review this review with a generous score;
3/10
Doomsaying is popular. Doomsaying gets views for your website.gamespy = ign = fox = want a lot of views.
Respect, walk, what did you say? Respect, walk Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
Originally posted by Touc I don't see how combat is so dynamic and different either since it's standard tab-targeting wtih dodge. I've been watching streams since the stress-test yesterday and the combat really doesn't look any different than most MMOs. I wish they would've taken Tera's combat with the dodge + skillshots combat. I just don't see why there is all this hype around the game; maybe it's particularly the no-sub fee?
heres a two videos of some PVP tournaments.. obvious GW2 is graphically much better due to the newer game but overall look and feel is much more dynamic to me..
but honestly you really need to play each game to really tell how big of a difference there is
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Lol, those are my feelings almost bang on. WvW is the only thing saving this game for me. As I ve said many times, GW2 is a great second or third game.
Originally posted by Leucent Lol, those are my feelings almost bang on. WvW is the only thing saving this game for me. As I ve said many times, GW2 is a great second or third game.
Honestly, PVE in GW2 puts me to sleep. I am also only and only playing GW2 for PVP.
Originally posted by Touc I don't see how combat is so dynamic and different either since it's standard tab-targeting wtih dodge. I've been watching streams since the stress-test yesterday and the combat really doesn't look any different than most MMOs. I wish they would've taken Tera's combat with the dodge + skillshots combat. I just don't see why there is all this hype around the game; maybe it's particularly the no-sub fee?
heres a two videos of some PVP tournaments.. obvious GW2 is graphically much better due to the newer game but overall look and feel is much more dynamic to me..
but honestly you really need to play each game to really tell how big of a difference there is
I really want to try it without buying it first. It just looks pretty and that's it. I've watched various videos where the devs/person spews out generalities about how great the game is but doesn't explain anything in detail. Is their a video that explains the loot and "endgame" gearing/loot?
Originally posted by Touc I don't see how combat is so dynamic and different either since it's standard tab-targeting wtih dodge. I've been watching streams since the stress-test yesterday and the combat really doesn't look any different than most MMOs. I wish they would've taken Tera's combat with the dodge + skillshots combat. I just don't see why there is all this hype around the game; maybe it's particularly the no-sub fee?
heres a two videos of some PVP tournaments.. obvious GW2 is graphically much better due to the newer game but overall look and feel is much more dynamic to me..
but honestly you really need to play each game to really tell how big of a difference there is
I really want to try it without buying it first. It just looks pretty and that's it. I've watched various videos where the devs/person spews out generalities about how great the game is but doesn't explain anything in detail. Is their a video that explains the loot and "endgame" gearing/loot?
also have lots of videos in my sig on various aspects of the game from actual players not just dev's
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
As for his comments on end game, it's sad that people feel a game will fail if it doesn't force you to stay competitive fhrough excessive amounts of repetition and widening the gap between max level and earlier content, making you an invincible killing machine outside of maybe 5% of that content. It's really sad.
Agreed, but this is the current MMO market. It's one of the reasons WoW is able to hold onto their 9 million + subs.
Originally posted by GamerUntouch Seems like the author doesn't understand the design of this game at all.
yea got the same feeling reading that
Spot on there are to many people talking like they know nothing at all about the game design. So lets hope they get to understand when they do finally get their hands on it. Still only a few days and these boards and many others will go quite for a few days at least.
I disagree with the whole "no one talks so there's no communication thing".
Something actually happened to me today.
I was doing an event, a hard one too.
Someone joined me to help.
Basically the person was killing it while I was kiting it around.
I still managed to die, but they ended up dieing too and we spawned at the same waypoint, it was awkward when I saw them again and we both knew eachother from that.
Just because people aren't talking doesn't mean there's no communication.
I feel it's nesscary to repost this because a lot of people are missing the point of the game still.
I feel it's nesscary to repost this because a lot of people are missing the point of the game still.
That's the point of any MMO. Sorry, but this experience is not unique. I have experienced this at least once in every MMO I have played over the years.
I feel it's nesscary to repost this because a lot of people are missing the point of the game still.
That's the point of any MMO. Sorry, but this experience is not unique. I have experienced this at least once in every MMO I have played over the years.
Who says it's unique, I'm countering the people who said there's no interaction.
i agree with all of their points. these are all things i've been worried about myself, but i'm hoping will be resolved as time wears on. except the last one about the combat. not because he is entirely wrong (even with the combat mechanics as they are i still found myself using rotations a bit with my skills. of course, that is just at low levels, against low levels foes; higher level/stronger mobs forced me to rethink my strategies but there's still the chance a rotation will emerge), but rather because he says that a hunter in gw2 played like a wow hunter because he tab targeted and hit number keys for skills. ... well... yeah.
unless you're playing an fps with no targeting whatsoever, those're the key bindings that you use. if they had changed targeting to the "~" it wouldn't make any difference. the way you interact with enemies on such a basic level does not really reflect on the combat as a whole. also the hunter may not have been the best example he could have used. disclaimer: i didn't try the hunter for very long, but bows are bows to a certain degree. even the ele felt like other mage classes in other games. no other class that i played beyond the absolute beginning (lvl 5 is where things get interesting in my opinion) played like anything i had ever encountered. the possible exception is that gw2's warrior felt a bit like tera's warrior. except that i had more weapon options than none. and i didn't just run in a circle around the mob. and i wasn't just wearing a few scraps of chainmail.
Originally posted by Touc I don't see how combat is so dynamic and different either since it's standard tab-targeting wtih dodge. I've been watching streams since the stress-test yesterday and the combat really doesn't look any different than most MMOs. I wish they would've taken Tera's combat with the dodge + skillshots combat. I just don't see why there is all this hype around the game; maybe it's particularly the no-sub fee?
heres a two videos of some PVP tournaments.. obvious GW2 is graphically much better due to the newer game but overall look and feel is much more dynamic to me..
but honestly you really need to play each game to really tell how big of a difference there is
I really want to try it without buying it first. It just looks pretty and that's it. I've watched various videos where the devs/person spews out generalities about how great the game is but doesn't explain anything in detail. Is their a video that explains the loot and "endgame" gearing/loot?
If only internet 'journalism' was subject to some sort of editorial rigour....
If the article had been filled with praise then you would be touting as an outstanding work. It is an editorial blog about some of the potential weaknesses in GW2's design. I am a GW2 fan, but I am not so blind that I can't see that these are potential issues. There is no right or wrong when it comes to an opinionated blog and even less so when he addresses some valid concerns. Your feeble attempts to dismiss them are laughable at best.
I would be touting it would I?
Do you often start your posts with unsupportable guesses on things you cannot know the truth of?
I dismiss the author's statements based on a reasoned critique of his article and it's obvious lack of depth or associated evidence.
You on the other hand are dismissing my post with nothing more than supposition and guesswork.
A pity....
BUT - at least you didn't indulge in having a go at me directly - you took issue with what I wrote - so kudos to you sir....
Comments
If the article had been filled with praise then you would be touting as an outstanding work. It is an editorial blog about some of the potential weaknesses in GW2's design. I am a GW2 fan, but I am not so blind that I can't see that these are potential issues. There is no right or wrong when it comes to an opinionated blog and even less so when he addresses some valid concerns. Your feeble attempts to dismiss them are laughable at best.
they did it very well for guild wars 1 and they didnt even have a store at first
dont worry kitten, the milk will be ever so purfect
Yes they have. However, as someone else mentioned most of these complaints are about items that Anet has said that they do not want in the game (trinity, gear grind, etc.). I agree with most of the criticism and that is why I won't make GW2 a keeper. I respect ANet for doing something different but look what happened to the other "different" game - TSW. GW2 will make money, a lot of money, but it won't be the next WOW.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Yes, but sadly there are many on this forum acting like it's something much much bigger.
Agreed. His misunderstanding of the Trinty or how the role he chose to fill was actually an asset of the current system and not a throwback to the Trinity was one example of that.
Summed up well by Caliburn101 in this post.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
1) How can you include SWTOR in this example when the LFG tool was just recently implemented? Communication has been an issue ever since MMOs have gone mainstream. Developers can throw whatever tools they want, but if the community doesn't want to talk, they are not going to.
2) Agreed, the game (when compared to a SRPG) is comparable price-wise for content. However, they are competing against larger MMOs. I, personally, am not really looking for an MMO to play for only 40-50 hours. I'd rather play one with a much longer sustainability. Subscription cost for me is not an issue. If I want a bargain, hell, I'll pick up a F2P title.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
This pretty much sums up my opinion about this article:
Doomsaying is popular. Doomsaying gets views for your website.gamespy = ign = fox = want a lot of views.
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
heres a two videos of some PVP tournaments.. obvious GW2 is graphically much better due to the newer game but overall look and feel is much more dynamic to me..
Blizzcon2011 WoW Tournament - OMG vs Skill Capped (Grand Finals - Complete)
Match Cast: Super Squad [SS] VS Paradigm [TP] GW2
but honestly you really need to play each game to really tell how big of a difference there is
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Honestly, PVE in GW2 puts me to sleep. I am also only and only playing GW2 for PVP.
I really want to try it without buying it first. It just looks pretty and that's it. I've watched various videos where the devs/person spews out generalities about how great the game is but doesn't explain anything in detail. Is their a video that explains the loot and "endgame" gearing/loot?
read this http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/46603-faq-equipment-attributes-and-you-updated/
also have lots of videos in my sig on various aspects of the game from actual players not just dev's
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Agreed, but this is the current MMO market. It's one of the reasons WoW is able to hold onto their 9 million + subs.
Spot on there are to many people talking like they know nothing at all about the game design. So lets hope they get to understand when they do finally get their hands on it. Still only a few days and these boards and many others will go quite for a few days at least.
Bandit
Asbo
I feel it's nesscary to repost this because a lot of people are missing the point of the game still.
That's the point of any MMO. Sorry, but this experience is not unique. I have experienced this at least once in every MMO I have played over the years.
Who says it's unique, I'm countering the people who said there's no interaction.
i agree with all of their points. these are all things i've been worried about myself, but i'm hoping will be resolved as time wears on. except the last one about the combat. not because he is entirely wrong (even with the combat mechanics as they are i still found myself using rotations a bit with my skills. of course, that is just at low levels, against low levels foes; higher level/stronger mobs forced me to rethink my strategies but there's still the chance a rotation will emerge), but rather because he says that a hunter in gw2 played like a wow hunter because he tab targeted and hit number keys for skills. ... well... yeah.
unless you're playing an fps with no targeting whatsoever, those're the key bindings that you use. if they had changed targeting to the "~" it wouldn't make any difference. the way you interact with enemies on such a basic level does not really reflect on the combat as a whole. also the hunter may not have been the best example he could have used. disclaimer: i didn't try the hunter for very long, but bows are bows to a certain degree. even the ele felt like other mage classes in other games. no other class that i played beyond the absolute beginning (lvl 5 is where things get interesting in my opinion) played like anything i had ever encountered. the possible exception is that gw2's warrior felt a bit like tera's warrior. except that i had more weapon options than none. and i didn't just run in a circle around the mob. and i wasn't just wearing a few scraps of chainmail.
Thanks, that link really helped me out with the loot and stats. I really think if I buy this it will be because their is not a sub-fee.
You posted "people are missing the point of the game still." I was just countering that it's the point of any MMO.
I would be touting it would I?
Do you often start your posts with unsupportable guesses on things you cannot know the truth of?
I dismiss the author's statements based on a reasoned critique of his article and it's obvious lack of depth or associated evidence.
You on the other hand are dismissing my post with nothing more than supposition and guesswork.
A pity....
BUT - at least you didn't indulge in having a go at me directly - you took issue with what I wrote - so kudos to you sir....