heres the tihng. ypou should take vendor price, and scale it atleast by 15% and the listing fee. AT LEAST
then you have to put a convieience fee in and finnally put in a profit margin you want.
so usually i would put maybe 2 times the vendor price on ok goods, some goods will be worth more then the 2 times price.
and for materials go for a big jump in price, simply because vendors buy them dirt cheap. but dotn go too haigh or it wont make it worth the crafters time. they have to be able to mnake money off your goods too
1. Diablo 3 doesn't have static itemization. Everything is random, there trade profits are much easier to make by using the right search filters. I made millions from item flipping on D3.
2. Not my first MMO.
3. No, it's not a fact, it's an opinion. Where on the forum rules does it rule that I can only state facts?
4. The term "too high" implies opinion. You shouldn't have clicked on this thread if you were expecting information that was true/false oriented.
1. Where in real life can you just see underpriced items, flip them, and make good money from it? Unless you earn your living through this method, I don't know why you expect it to be an automatic "feature" of MMOs.
2. Then where is the problem with gold sinks?
3. Point taken, but posting opinions on a forum that has no connection with Anet won't get you anywhere. You're either just QQing for the sake of QQing or genuinely have no idea how MMOs operate.
4. "Too high" can be based on something entirely objective. If teleporting cost 500g a go, then that is objectively too high because no one would ever use it. That's beyond the point of discouraging something, since you might as well not have it in the game. However, the trading post operates just fine with a 15% cut, and smart people can still flip for profit. There's nothing "too high" that completely removes the purpose of the trading post.
1. This is how every retail for-profit business operates. Every single one of them.
2. Gold sinks are a necessary evil of MMOs, but is it wrong to dislike them?
3. No forums have a connection to Anet. I'm QQing because this is the only place I can do it. If I bring this point up to other players in the game and they agree with me (which is seems like at least some do), perhaps we can be loud about the problem and Anet will eventually hear. You never know. It's worked before.
4. 500g for a teleport is still subjectively too high. That's the problem with opinions: some of them stink. I could very easily say 500g is a reasonable price for teleportation and I don't need any supporting information because that's simply how an opinion works. It seems to me you haven't had a class in philosphy or logic, which is fine. But don't come into my thread, insult me, and then state some self-defeating illogical argument as a rebuttal for my original post.
heres the tihng. ypou should take vendor price, and scale it atleast by 15% and the listing fee. AT LEAST
then you have to put a convieience fee in and finnally put in a profit margin you want.
so usually i would put maybe 2 times the vendor price on ok goods, some goods will be worth more then the 2 times price.
and for materials go for a big jump in price, simply because vendors buy them dirt cheap. but dotn go too haigh or it wont make it worth the crafters time. they have to be able to mnake money off your goods too
As hard as this is to read, it actually makes sense. A good way to still enjoy item flipping, thought it's much harder. I've been trying it and the only problem is that you can't change your sell order prices without paying a restocking fee (lol).
A 15% tax will cut your 82% profit margin down to a 55% one, which sucks, but it deters people from reselling at 1c more than the buy price and drains money out of the economy.
Don't trade in (low tier) raw materials, their price will keep on crashing as over-farming sets in.
Well high is a relative term, but compared to other games and real life economies, 15% is very high. I don't understand the point. Is it simply to discourage item flipping? If so, that's really dumb. This trading post has the capability of supporting one of the greatest in game economies aside from EVE. I think 15% sales tax really hurts it.
In real life economy, you don't get endless money from killing animals and monsters in the forest.
MMOs need money sinks, otherwise their economy will inflate uncontrollably. GW2 luckily has one of the most efficient money sinks availabla - the Gem currency exchange, which will combat inflation extremely well.
2. Gold sinks are a necessary evil of MMOs, but is it wrong to dislike them?
It's not wrong to dislike them, but if you look at GW2 you will see there are very few other effective gold sinks in it. Can you propose an alternative to drain the same amount of money out of the game? The gem currency exchange is one, but will people use it enough?
I bought 100 bolts of jute at 69c a piece. Total price: 69s
I sell 100 bolts of jute for 80c a piece. Listing fee: 4s (5%) for a total of 76s. Expecting to receive 80s in my pickup bin.
Expected net gain: 7s
Actual money received after all bolts were sold: 72s (expected 80s)
Net gain: -1s
According to my numbers, the trading post takes a whopping 15% of our selling gains. That is way, way too much. 5% (Basically just the listing fee) is fair, imo. But 15 makes doing business on the trading post feel like highway robbery.
As far as I know, this is a recent thing. When the trading post was up a couple of days ago, I was able to flip items for awhile and I made a gold. Today when I tried I actually lost (a small amount of) money.
You're trying to game the market and complain that the fee doesn't allow to you game at a small margin? HAHAHAHAHA! The fee is there to prevent mass posting without expense, ryme or reason. It's also there as a money sink, of course.
I'm not sure how you got 15%, because it's not that. I think it's more like 4.5-6%. For example, an item had a vendor value at 84c (you'll see the relavence soon). Posting it at value of 88c had a market fee of 5c. People were foolish enough to post it that (a value lose of 1c to them rather than just vendoring it). That percent comes to 5.9% on that transaction. Maybe it scales on higher up transactions, or ones with multiple items, but I haven't seen that mystical 15% that you're saying.
Originally posted by tom_gore
Originally posted by nine56
2. Gold sinks are a necessary evil of MMOs, but is it wrong to dislike them?
It's not wrong to dislike them, but if you look at GW2 you will see there are very few other effective gold sinks in it. Can you propose an alternative to drain the same amount of money out of the game?
Are you kidding me? Have you seen the prices of the T3 cultural armor sets? And I'm wondering what the prices are going to be for the Faction armor when it comes back into tune (it was disabled after people found it being too cheap at 1/100th of the price of the Cultural stuff). Those are crazy money sinks.
I kinda like the high tax. Will counter inflation a fair bit and also prevent the average person from consistently flipping items at a profit. People can and will still profit by doing so of course, but it won't be a freebie to riches for most people.
For those that played Runescape, you might remember how effective merchanting was in that game. It was so effective and so easy, it trivialized almost any other method of making money, making entire portions of the game feel pointless.
2. Gold sinks are a necessary evil of MMOs, but is it wrong to dislike them?
It's not wrong to dislike them, but if you look at GW2 you will see there are very few other effective gold sinks in it. Can you propose an alternative to drain the same amount of money out of the game?
Are you kidding me? Have you seen the prices of the T3 cultural armor sets? And I'm wondering what the prices are going to be for the Faction armor when it comes back into tune (it was disabled after people found it being too cheap at 1/100th of the price of the Cultural stuff). Those are crazy money sinks.
High as they may be, they're once-per-character purchases. Effective gold sinks are stuff that you need to pay over and over again, such as repair costs, the AH trading fee, etc.
Originally posted by Siphaed Maybe it scales on higher up transactions, or ones with multiple items, but I haven't seen that mystical 15% that you're saying.
The listing fee for selling on the Trading Post is 5% of the sales price. This listing fee is not returned even if the listing is cancelled. Upon successful trade an additional 10% fee is deducted from the price, i.e. the total cost of a successful sale is 15%.
In real life economy, you don't get endless money from killing animals and monsters in the forest.
MMOs need money sinks, otherwise their economy will inflate uncontrollably. GW2 luckily has one of the most efficient money sinks availabla - the Gem currency exchange, which will combat inflation extremely well.
Yeah, I think half my money have gone there. Skill books, teleporting and repairs becomes a bit as well.
I have a theoretical idea about a system with limited currency but it needs more work... Particularly on keeping a few guys stacking all the money.
But MMOs do have money for nothing and that means unless you have enough money sinks you would get the same inflation Germany had in the 20s.
In WoW with old good Auctioneer I made my share of gold from AH but I never tried to resell something for 15-20% profit. Usually I only bothered when it was certain 100%+ and I found such items often enough. Can't recall how much I made reselling pearls and platinum ore but certainly more than 1k gold. And that's just from those two niches.
Think bigger and it'll work.
MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).
Originally posted by Kyleran It may be intentional, to limit market manipulation or just a solid way to drain gold from the economy.
Yes, "buying low" and "selling high" is now considered to be the big bad evil "market manipulation", right?
You can still 'buy low' and 'sell high' with 15% 'taxation'. You could do this with even higher tax rate.
It will just be harder. Who said 'easier' and lower cost for trading = better (for computer video game very simple trading system)
Yes, you can still do it, but I am merely disliking the notion that such "market manipulation" is inheritely bad and needs to be limited. If it is going to be limited it should have other arguments for why it needs to be limited other than just refering to "market manipulation" as if that was enough argument.
In WoW with old good Auctioneer I made my share of gold from AH but I never tried to resell something for 15-20% profit. Usually I only bothered when it was certain 100%+ and I found such items often enough. Can't recall how much I made reselling pearls and platinum ore but certainly more than 1k gold. And that's just from those two niches.
Think bigger and it'll work.
The problem is that GW2 trading post is global across all servers and thus it's practically impossible to "clear out" the supply of most materials. In WoW the AH was server AND faction specific, so it would usually be pretty trivial to buy out every single piece of a certain material in the AH and repost it at a higher price.
Heck, I wish my real tax were 15%, I live in sweden and if you count all tax together it is around 65% here.
No, 15% sounds about right. 20% works as well.
Difference is that your real life tax actually goes somewhere that is supposed to help the society as a whole.
A relevant comparison would be buying & selling of appartments in Sweden: If you sell an appartment in Sweden, there is a 22% tax on the net gain.
Yeah, so they say.
But MMO money sinks still is a must because the money is comming from nowhere. The inflation of MMOs without any money sinks makes the entire economy so broken that playing them is a pain.
You can complain It's high, but there's no other alternative, and since ''high'' is a relative term, It's not actually high.
Obviously most won't agree with that
Regards
Well high is a relative term, but compared to other games and real life economies, 15% is very high. I don't understand the point. Is it simply to discourage item flipping? If so, that's really dumb. This trading post has the capability of supporting one of the greatest in game economies aside from EVE. I think 15% sales tax really hurts it.
You definately never played Atlantica Online if you think that's high. ^_^
Real-life auction houses takes the same kind of fee - actually they can go even larger. I have seen 15% from the seller and 15% from the buyer. I don't really see the problem.
In WoW with old good Auctioneer I made my share of gold from AH but I never tried to resell something for 15-20% profit. Usually I only bothered when it was certain 100%+ and I found such items often enough. Can't recall how much I made reselling pearls and platinum ore but certainly more than 1k gold. And that's just from those two niches.
Think bigger and it'll work.
The problem is that GW2 trading post is global across all servers and thus it's practically impossible to "clear out" the supply of most materials. In WoW the AH was server AND faction specific, so it would usually be pretty trivial to buy out every single piece of a certain material in the AH and repost it at a higher price.
Yeah, I know. I didn't buy every single piece of anything. Usually just whatever was posted way below market. With TP being global it's going to be much harder to "snipe" such deals but if ANet will ban bots quickly enough it'll be possible sometimes.
Besides, I don't see any use for large amounts of gold in GW2 right now. Respec price is low. Gems are cheap and you need only so much of CS currency to buy everything useful. And AFAIK you can't buy karma at all.
MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).
Comments
heres the tihng. ypou should take vendor price, and scale it atleast by 15% and the listing fee. AT LEAST
then you have to put a convieience fee in
and finnally put in a profit margin you want.
so usually i would put maybe 2 times the vendor price on ok goods, some goods will be worth more then the 2 times price.
and for materials go for a big jump in price, simply because vendors buy them dirt cheap. but dotn go too haigh or it wont make it worth the crafters time. they have to be able to mnake money off your goods too
1. This is how every retail for-profit business operates. Every single one of them.
2. Gold sinks are a necessary evil of MMOs, but is it wrong to dislike them?
3. No forums have a connection to Anet. I'm QQing because this is the only place I can do it. If I bring this point up to other players in the game and they agree with me (which is seems like at least some do), perhaps we can be loud about the problem and Anet will eventually hear. You never know. It's worked before.
4. 500g for a teleport is still subjectively too high. That's the problem with opinions: some of them stink. I could very easily say 500g is a reasonable price for teleportation and I don't need any supporting information because that's simply how an opinion works. It seems to me you haven't had a class in philosphy or logic, which is fine. But don't come into my thread, insult me, and then state some self-defeating illogical argument as a rebuttal for my original post.
As hard as this is to read, it actually makes sense. A good way to still enjoy item flipping, thought it's much harder. I've been trying it and the only problem is that you can't change your sell order prices without paying a restocking fee (lol).
Spreadsheets are a thing, use them.
A 15% tax will cut your 82% profit margin down to a 55% one, which sucks, but it deters people from reselling at 1c more than the buy price and drains money out of the economy.
Don't trade in (low tier) raw materials, their price will keep on crashing as over-farming sets in.
In real life economy, you don't get endless money from killing animals and monsters in the forest.
MMOs need money sinks, otherwise their economy will inflate uncontrollably. GW2 luckily has one of the most efficient money sinks availabla - the Gem currency exchange, which will combat inflation extremely well.
It's not wrong to dislike them, but if you look at GW2 you will see there are very few other effective gold sinks in it. Can you propose an alternative to drain the same amount of money out of the game? The gem currency exchange is one, but will people use it enough?
You're trying to game the market and complain that the fee doesn't allow to you game at a small margin? HAHAHAHAHA! The fee is there to prevent mass posting without expense, ryme or reason. It's also there as a money sink, of course.
I'm not sure how you got 15%, because it's not that. I think it's more like 4.5-6%. For example, an item had a vendor value at 84c (you'll see the relavence soon). Posting it at value of 88c had a market fee of 5c. People were foolish enough to post it that (a value lose of 1c to them rather than just vendoring it). That percent comes to 5.9% on that transaction. Maybe it scales on higher up transactions, or ones with multiple items, but I haven't seen that mystical 15% that you're saying.
Are you kidding me? Have you seen the prices of the T3 cultural armor sets? And I'm wondering what the prices are going to be for the Faction armor when it comes back into tune (it was disabled after people found it being too cheap at 1/100th of the price of the Cultural stuff). Those are crazy money sinks.
I kinda like the high tax. Will counter inflation a fair bit and also prevent the average person from consistently flipping items at a profit. People can and will still profit by doing so of course, but it won't be a freebie to riches for most people.
For those that played Runescape, you might remember how effective merchanting was in that game. It was so effective and so easy, it trivialized almost any other method of making money, making entire portions of the game feel pointless.
I wouldn't want to see GW2 turn out that way.
High as they may be, they're once-per-character purchases. Effective gold sinks are stuff that you need to pay over and over again, such as repair costs, the AH trading fee, etc.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Trading_Post
EQ2 usually takes 20%.
Heck, I wish my real tax were 15%, I live in sweden and if you count all tax together it is around 65% here.
No, 15% sounds about right. 20% works as well.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Yeah, I think half my money have gone there. Skill books, teleporting and repairs becomes a bit as well.
I have a theoretical idea about a system with limited currency but it needs more work... Particularly on keeping a few guys stacking all the money.
But MMOs do have money for nothing and that means unless you have enough money sinks you would get the same inflation Germany had in the 20s.
In WoW with old good Auctioneer I made my share of gold from AH but I never tried to resell something for 15-20% profit. Usually I only bothered when it was certain 100%+ and I found such items often enough. Can't recall how much I made reselling pearls and platinum ore but certainly more than 1k gold. And that's just from those two niches.
Think bigger and it'll work.
MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).
Yes, you can still do it, but I am merely disliking the notion that such "market manipulation" is inheritely bad and needs to be limited. If it is going to be limited it should have other arguments for why it needs to be limited other than just refering to "market manipulation" as if that was enough argument.
Difference is that your real life tax actually goes somewhere that is supposed to help the society as a whole.
A relevant comparison would be buying & selling of appartments in Sweden: If you sell an appartment in Sweden, there is a 22% tax on the net gain.
The problem is that GW2 trading post is global across all servers and thus it's practically impossible to "clear out" the supply of most materials. In WoW the AH was server AND faction specific, so it would usually be pretty trivial to buy out every single piece of a certain material in the AH and repost it at a higher price.
So a speculant complains he has to pay to much in taxes stopping him from making money without having to work for it.
Oh NO!
Next up, pesky laws stop slavers from making a profit on selling humans.
Maybe it's to stop people buying low and selling high to artificially inflate the prices .. Who know's
Yeah, so they say.
But MMO money sinks still is a must because the money is comming from nowhere. The inflation of MMOs without any money sinks makes the entire economy so broken that playing them is a pain.
You definately never played Atlantica Online if you think that's high. ^_^
Yeah, I know. I didn't buy every single piece of anything. Usually just whatever was posted way below market. With TP being global it's going to be much harder to "snipe" such deals but if ANet will ban bots quickly enough it'll be possible sometimes.
Besides, I don't see any use for large amounts of gold in GW2 right now. Respec price is low. Gems are cheap and you need only so much of CS currency to buy everything useful. And AFAIK you can't buy karma at all.
MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).
let's hope so....people are even greedy when it comes to virtual money these days