I will say this. I logged into Rift today on my lunch break to complete my World Events dailys and get my Spectral Najmok. I can say with all certainty, there is a much greater drop in overall online server population today than there was during the entire period from 8/25/12 to 8/28/12.
Originally posted by GeezerGamer I will say this. I logged into Rift today on my lunch break to complete my World Events dailys and get my Spectral Najmok. I can say with all certainty, there is a much greater drop in overall online server population today than there was during the entire period from 8/25/12 to 8/28/12.
I bet it has nothing to do with the fact that WoW has 9 million + active accounts and Rift and WoW being so similar. Why would you play Rift when you can play the original?
For what its worth returning from my family is 2 out of 6. Cata is the last expansion I will buy and I regretted that. BC is the last expansion I enjoyed a ton. Wrath was ok but it started the downfall of many things I don't like with the game now. Good luck to Blizzard and hope to see them when Titan comes out.
MoP is bringing me back, the question is when. Do I return now and face possible queues and over crowded zones? Or do I continue on with GW2 for a while longer and then return when the initial WoW surege has passed?
I'm leaning towards now, because most of my friends have already left GW2.
I'm living with 3 other people who use to play WoW until Cataclysm, none of them will be returning this expansion. The 4th person who never played MMO's before and just at some deep level had no love or time for them is playing GW2. Not sure how much time he has spent on it but he is about level 55 and from what he's saying he is quite enjoying it so far. I think the reason he likes it is that he can wander around and do his thing and not need to worry about having a purpose. He's lived with people who played WoW since it launched and he says it just never appealed to him because of all the Guild Drama and raiding and stuff. He did quite enjoy being able to play with myself and the other guys here without there being any hassle and I think that sort of interaction is a pretty big deal for him.
There's a few guys in my work who use to play as well. Out of the 5 that I still speak with only one of them bought MoP. Having said that I'm pretty sure none of the others play MMO's at all now.
So personal anecdotal evidence aside.. I get the impression that on forums such as this the amount of interest/articles and such seems to be a lot lower than I seem to recall previous expansions. I don't doubt it's going to sell a lot but I don't think it's going to be close to Cataclysm or WotLK.
I have been saying this for a while, the success of MoP will be determined by how many new players it brings into the game. Many of the old players are just burnt out or don't like the direction of the game since burning crusade.
If MoP brings in new players, then it will be a success. If it doesn't, then after a quick bump in numbers, the players who came back for MoP will get tired and leave again until the next expansion.
Originally posted by GeezerGamer I will say this. I logged into Rift today on my lunch break to complete my World Events dailys and get my Spectral Najmok. I can say with all certainty, there is a much greater drop in overall online server population today than there was during the entire period from 8/25/12 to 8/28/12.
I bet it has nothing to do with the fact that WoW has 9 million + active accounts and Rift and WoW being so similar. Why would you play Rift when you can play the original?
I am sure it has everything to do with the fact that they are similar. Rift is more like WoW than GW2.
And to answer your curiosity, I play Rift becuase the open world PVE raids are the best there are.
All expansions bring back people. The normal inflation then reduction follows. I would think though that this expansion will sell the least of all Wow expansions. I of course could be wrong. I think this due to the rather lack of hype around this expansion and also the circle of gamers I know ALL (every last one of them) are not planning on purchasing this expansion nor returning.
This is in sharp contrast to each previous expansion where I and each of my old Wow friends purchases and played the expansions upon release. Our last guild which was largely a family run guild where every single member of one family (and many expanded members) along with my core mmo rl friends no longer plays Wow nor is planning on returning. There is also no talk about it at all amongst the gamers within the IT community where I work. The hype for MoP is simply non-existent where I live in the circles I used to hear nothing else but Wow previously.
I suspect the sales will be decent of course and those playing Wow will mostly enjoy it. I haven't even researched at all the content within it. I expect it will be like all the others and tier the game up to a new level making all previous content 99% irrelevant and within a month turn into a "sit in your main city and queue your life away". This is why every single former Wow player I know quit the game.
Wow is too big to collapse overnight but it certainly has peaked and bleeds more players on average than gains them. It has become dependent upon players who know little to nothing about other mmo's. I see blind defense arguments for Wow from people clearly with no experience in other mmo's prior to and since Wow. Wow's core player base is now divided into two groups: their old school players who played upon release and new players largely from non-pc gaming who know Wow for what it is today and not how it used to be. Old school players with previous rpg experience are leaving to seek experiences they have become accustomed to ... slower leveling, open world content, large guild cooperation and community. New school players seek diversity in gaming and content, want their rewards quickly without the added encumbrance from large guild and community building and expect ease of access from all the games they play. Wow can no longer nurture a tight nit community as it is impossible due to its size. They admit their players come and go more than any other time in their history and their content and marketing reflects this. This is also why my guild and friends at my age no longer even talk about the game.
Mop will do exactly what Activision/Bliz expects it do to ... to pad quarterly sales and then see a dramatic drop off soon after. They will then plan their next income surge in the appropriate investor’s cycle. They will target their largest client market from the most recent research reflects. Each shift in player base will have Bliz alienating the previous. Those 15-25 who are currently being coddled will graduate, find jobs, start families and see the next expansion suddenly leave them in the dust as Wow is directed into a different development path once again. They will also seek other games and be frustrated with where mmo development is headed. Activision/Bliz is in a battle of attrition like all mega-companies. They want % increase in growth instead of supporting and nurturing existing communities and creating sustenance over growth.
Yes players will return but more players will leave then remain. The current development cycle does not support it's community as a whole. You are compartmentalized and dissected for your worth. There comes a time where every single player will see this and become disenfranchised. It is only a matter of time.
Well I just played it for half hour (spent over an hour in a queue mind you) and I kinda have the WoW bug again.. the atmosphere, music pulled me right back in, only stopped playing cus the lag was too much and I forgot how to play my hunter, I'll give a few days and jump right back in. Still have GW2 to get to cap only lvl 64, but as GW2 end game is rather limiting I think it's all worked out rather well.
Didn't the guy who used to run mmogcharts (Nick Ye?) observe that, historically, expansions don't 'save games' or affect subs in any significant way long-term?
Short sub bubble just before expanson day, and for few months after. Six months later, same level as pre-expansion.
Wouldn't put my money on Panda either making or breaking a mature game.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Originally posted by Sukiyaki 2 weeks and everyone will be back to GW2.
2 weeks and gw2 will be dead. and if its not will be because of non sub system and not because its something special. most ppl already have it as an alt mmo, as me and my friends do
Originally posted by Sukiyaki 2 weeks and everyone will be back to GW2.
so you are seeing people leaving GW2 to play WoW.. i guess that would explain the fall off on Xfire.. though some might say that whats really happened is that people who took a break from WoW to try out GW2 are now returning..
I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people return, at least for a while. All new MMOs that have come out are pretty atrocious, and even though I find WoW atrocious as well (post Battlegrounds launch), it's understandable why a good amount of people would return.
All in all I don't care though, the themepark crowd will hop around like they have been for the past 8 years while company after company releases the same crappy "rollercoaster-ride" MMO. I'm just happy I got out of the muddled themepark division of the MMO genre a long time ago.
Didn't the guy who used to run mmogcharts (Nick Ye?) observe that, historically, expansions don't 'save games' or affect subs in any significant way long-term?
Short sub bubble just before expanson day, and for few months after. Six months later, same level as pre-expansion.
Wouldn't put my money on Panda either making or breaking a mature game.
This is completely true. Expansions are toppings and have little or nothing to do with the base game. It is content chasing and only succeeds enough to maintain the model due to Bliz creating solid content which they do best. Unfortuneately it isn't enough for many of those who have been through the cycle far too many times and see it for what it is ... a new toy that will lose it's shine and excitement in a short amount of time. Those players do not want to go through it all over again.
Bliz is the master of brainwashing and propaganda though and can still pull the masses back for just long enough to make it worth while though. Sadly it long ago made me and many others I know feel like sheeple and we wish not to repeat it.
Two of my best friends are trying to get me to play with them. One is still in wow, the other in gw2. Had to break it to em that i am playing rift and having too much fun hehe
I seem there are quite a few of you who seem to think you speak on behalf of players who left or came back and even know percentage of this and that. Fact is that you are just pulling numbers randomly out of the lower part of your back. Don't do that. there are no numbers out so don't bring it into the talk.
MOP is not what is killing wow. The game has been losing players for a long time. That will continue. MMORPG has had an interesting debate going on for a couple of days about your favourite expansion of wow (original wow, THB, Cata, or?) It seemed like a LOT of those who took part voted the original wow high on the list. Lots actually had the original version of wow (vanilla) as number one on their top 4 list.
WoW has moved too far away from the original wow and no expansion will bring the big numbers we knew back.
If it ain't dead you're not pressing 2 hard enough.
I've been playing WoW for the last month as a returning player . Its useful to me because when I work away from home ( which amounts to a month or two a year ) it is a game that plays reasonably well on my laptop ( on low settings ) . The BG aspect of WoW is still something I enjoy .
I did log in last night when MoP went live and saw a slight increase in populations there were 18 high servers ( some of which were locked ) this is slighly up on the average 10-15 high servers . There were around 40 medium load servers ( again slighly up ) .
Logging in this lunchtime the numbers have dropped slightly but thats to be understood .Also we have factor in a lot of children probably wont play till tonight .
The only comparison I have to make is to previous WoW expansions . I did have a similar conversation on this topic in another forum when cataclysm was released .
Back then on day one . I saw 35 + full servers . That was from the moment of release and lasted all day long with no drop off . I do recall hearing Blizzard had increased the numbers of people a server could take but I think this happened prior to Cataclysm and not after . If thats correct it wouldn't explain the drop in full servers upon the release of MoP .
If may be too early to draw many conclusions from this as thing may pick up but to me it looks like initial download sales ( in the EU ) at least are lower than the previous expansion on day one .
How is it looking in other areas like North America ?
Edit ***** please be aware I m refering to english speaking servers .
Well on Bronze Dragonflight there were no queues to login at any time, a lot of players of course at main quest giver (with zillion yells "dismount you noobs" :-)) ... but I do not have not even remotely impression there were so many as with Cata release. After 5 hours in Stormwind there were 10 or 12 monks ... and that's all. Guess in new world were much more, but have decided to first finish starting area for panda monks.
Originally posted by expresso Well I just played it for half hour (spent over an hour in a queue mind you) and I kinda have the WoW bug again.. the atmosphere, music pulled me right back in, only stopped playing cus the lag was too much and I forgot how to play my hunter, I'll give a few days and jump right back in. Still have GW2 to get to cap only lvl 64, but as GW2 end game is rather limiting I think it's all worked out rather well.
So not even level capped and you already know for certain what end game will be like? Wow... can you pcik my lotto numbers then as apparenlty you have a knack for knowing the unkown.
Didn't the guy who used to run mmogcharts (Nick Ye?) observe that, historically, expansions don't 'save games' or affect subs in any significant way long-term?
Short sub bubble just before expanson day, and for few months after. Six months later, same level as pre-expansion.
Wouldn't put my money on Panda either making or breaking a mature game.
Like Cata was with me, people will come back to check it out, put in no serious committment n leave. Have no intrest in shelling out 60 bucks just to try something out when there is no long term intrest in it.
Which GW2 might break that mold or at least lower the frequency of it... then again might not.
Comments
SWTOR sold 2.4m copies after 4 months
we dont know how many copies GW2 will sell after 4 months
otherwise i agree that any themepark is vulnerable
EQ2 fan sites
I bet it has nothing to do with the fact that WoW has 9 million + active accounts and Rift and WoW being so similar. Why would you play Rift when you can play the original?
MoP is bringing me back, the question is when. Do I return now and face possible queues and over crowded zones? Or do I continue on with GW2 for a while longer and then return when the initial WoW surege has passed?
I'm leaning towards now, because most of my friends have already left GW2.
I have been saying this for a while, the success of MoP will be determined by how many new players it brings into the game. Many of the old players are just burnt out or don't like the direction of the game since burning crusade.
If MoP brings in new players, then it will be a success. If it doesn't, then after a quick bump in numbers, the players who came back for MoP will get tired and leave again until the next expansion.
CRZ works in reverse too - CRZ will spawn multiple zone instances if zone is overcrowded
EQ2 fan sites
I am sure it has everything to do with the fact that they are similar. Rift is more like WoW than GW2.
And to answer your curiosity, I play Rift becuase the open world PVE raids are the best there are.
All expansions bring back people. The normal inflation then reduction follows. I would think though that this expansion will sell the least of all Wow expansions. I of course could be wrong. I think this due to the rather lack of hype around this expansion and also the circle of gamers I know ALL (every last one of them) are not planning on purchasing this expansion nor returning.
This is in sharp contrast to each previous expansion where I and each of my old Wow friends purchases and played the expansions upon release. Our last guild which was largely a family run guild where every single member of one family (and many expanded members) along with my core mmo rl friends no longer plays Wow nor is planning on returning. There is also no talk about it at all amongst the gamers within the IT community where I work. The hype for MoP is simply non-existent where I live in the circles I used to hear nothing else but Wow previously.
I suspect the sales will be decent of course and those playing Wow will mostly enjoy it. I haven't even researched at all the content within it. I expect it will be like all the others and tier the game up to a new level making all previous content 99% irrelevant and within a month turn into a "sit in your main city and queue your life away". This is why every single former Wow player I know quit the game.
Wow is too big to collapse overnight but it certainly has peaked and bleeds more players on average than gains them. It has become dependent upon players who know little to nothing about other mmo's. I see blind defense arguments for Wow from people clearly with no experience in other mmo's prior to and since Wow. Wow's core player base is now divided into two groups: their old school players who played upon release and new players largely from non-pc gaming who know Wow for what it is today and not how it used to be. Old school players with previous rpg experience are leaving to seek experiences they have become accustomed to ... slower leveling, open world content, large guild cooperation and community. New school players seek diversity in gaming and content, want their rewards quickly without the added encumbrance from large guild and community building and expect ease of access from all the games they play. Wow can no longer nurture a tight nit community as it is impossible due to its size. They admit their players come and go more than any other time in their history and their content and marketing reflects this. This is also why my guild and friends at my age no longer even talk about the game.
Mop will do exactly what Activision/Bliz expects it do to ... to pad quarterly sales and then see a dramatic drop off soon after. They will then plan their next income surge in the appropriate investor’s cycle. They will target their largest client market from the most recent research reflects. Each shift in player base will have Bliz alienating the previous. Those 15-25 who are currently being coddled will graduate, find jobs, start families and see the next expansion suddenly leave them in the dust as Wow is directed into a different development path once again. They will also seek other games and be frustrated with where mmo development is headed. Activision/Bliz is in a battle of attrition like all mega-companies. They want % increase in growth instead of supporting and nurturing existing communities and creating sustenance over growth.
Yes players will return but more players will leave then remain. The current development cycle does not support it's community as a whole. You are compartmentalized and dissected for your worth. There comes a time where every single player will see this and become disenfranchised. It is only a matter of time.
You stay sassy!
Rift is a better game than WoW.
WoW has loads of players in EU, Rift does not.
WoW it is.
Didn't the guy who used to run mmogcharts (Nick Ye?) observe that, historically, expansions don't 'save games' or affect subs in any significant way long-term?
Short sub bubble just before expanson day, and for few months after. Six months later, same level as pre-expansion.
Wouldn't put my money on Panda either making or breaking a mature game.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
2 weeks and gw2 will be dead. and if its not will be because of non sub system and not because its something special. most ppl already have it as an alt mmo, as me and my friends do
so you are seeing people leaving GW2 to play WoW.. i guess that would explain the fall off on Xfire.. though some might say that whats really happened is that people who took a break from WoW to try out GW2 are now returning..
I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people return, at least for a while. All new MMOs that have come out are pretty atrocious, and even though I find WoW atrocious as well (post Battlegrounds launch), it's understandable why a good amount of people would return.
All in all I don't care though, the themepark crowd will hop around like they have been for the past 8 years while company after company releases the same crappy "rollercoaster-ride" MMO. I'm just happy I got out of the muddled themepark division of the MMO genre a long time ago.
This is completely true. Expansions are toppings and have little or nothing to do with the base game. It is content chasing and only succeeds enough to maintain the model due to Bliz creating solid content which they do best. Unfortuneately it isn't enough for many of those who have been through the cycle far too many times and see it for what it is ... a new toy that will lose it's shine and excitement in a short amount of time. Those players do not want to go through it all over again.
Bliz is the master of brainwashing and propaganda though and can still pull the masses back for just long enough to make it worth while though. Sadly it long ago made me and many others I know feel like sheeple and we wish not to repeat it.
You stay sassy!
Two of my best friends are trying to get me to play with them. One is still in wow, the other in gw2. Had to break it to em that i am playing rift and having too much fun hehe
Wyrmrest Accord, a PvE server has a 13 minute queue to enter the server. That is a semi-good sign I guess.
Stormwind was over-run by Pandarians! The Westfall beach near the northern end was filled with Panda's killing murlocs!
Fun Stuff
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
Somebody needs to make s video of all these pandas running around with this song in the background.panda style
I seem there are quite a few of you who seem to think you speak on behalf of players who left or came back and even know percentage of this and that. Fact is that you are just pulling numbers randomly out of the lower part of your back. Don't do that. there are no numbers out so don't bring it into the talk.
MOP is not what is killing wow. The game has been losing players for a long time. That will continue. MMORPG has had an interesting debate going on for a couple of days about your favourite expansion of wow (original wow, THB, Cata, or?) It seemed like a LOT of those who took part voted the original wow high on the list. Lots actually had the original version of wow (vanilla) as number one on their top 4 list.
WoW has moved too far away from the original wow and no expansion will bring the big numbers we knew back.
If it ain't dead you're not pressing 2 hard enough.
Well on Bronze Dragonflight there were no queues to login at any time, a lot of players of course at main quest giver (with zillion yells "dismount you noobs" :-)) ... but I do not have not even remotely impression there were so many as with Cata release. After 5 hours in Stormwind there were 10 or 12 monks ... and that's all. Guess in new world were much more, but have decided to first finish starting area for panda monks.
So not even level capped and you already know for certain what end game will be like? Wow... can you pcik my lotto numbers then as apparenlty you have a knack for knowing the unkown.
Which GW2 might break that mold or at least lower the frequency of it... then again might not.