This is a great list of things we are simply not going to see much of again. Everything he mentioned I would like to see but we won’t get it because:
Mutliperson Vechicles – MMO’s are designed with soloers first and foremost now, they only need single seaters.
Storytelling/Player Events – Only used by roleplayers, a minority designers gave up on before they gave up on groupers.
User Generated Content – This could be new content for free as far as designers are concerned, for all the ones on this list, this is the one of the most likely to be seen again. But it is design intensive and is seen incorrectly as the domain of roleplayers, and anything with the label ‘roleplayer’ is the kiss of death as regards developer time.
Factional Warfare – Always a winner in my eyes, solving issues like ganking and introducing players new to pvp in a much more game friendly way. Design intensive though, often needs two separate PvE paths, but SWTOR has that. Of all the list this is the most natural for SWTOR.
Space Combat – This would require more development time than Factional, so less likely to see. It would transform the game though and could be very solo friendly which is all they care about these days. So you never know. If the add this I could go back to SWTOR, it would be that much of a game changer.
I would of went with the focus on open world planets, open world PvP like Bounty Hunting (no instanced pvp such as battlegrounds, arena,etc) the crafting, the professions skill system, one character with the ability to untrain and train skills, no levels, player cities, reasons for players to go to buildings such as cantinas/taverns.
But I guess everyone has their own taste. I guess I would summarize mine under all the immersive, social aspects of SWG, rather than multi-person mounts...
I'm pretty sure they were trying to be realistic; offer suggestions that might be somewhat do-able. I could actually imagine multiplayer vehicles, for example. provide tools for player events, etc.
Your suggestions add up to "make TOR into SWG". Even big maps like Hoth and Tatt would never accommodate player made cities, for example. You'd have to rewrite the whole game.
I can see player cities being more do-able than player generated content, as the worlds are designed around the stories that Bioware created, and does not have game altering mechanics. In SWG you had the mission terminals, and the missions were generic. In CoH you have generic missions and it varies behind the same door. In STO it also has generic missions via the Anomilies in places like the Delta Volanis cluster, which loads up a random mission. You do not have this sort of thing in SWTOR
Player cities in SWTOR could be done similar to what LOTRO has, instead of getting the "Exhaustion Zone" warning, they could make an instance assecsible to enter and you go in pre-made player cities, and then buy houses. Better still obviosuly, you have an area where it is like SWG, but the LOTRO approach probably is more feasible
Hoth certainly would not have houses / player cities, but Tatooine could, and even in SWG not all planets could have player housing / cities - eg Dathomir, Endor, Kash, Musty
Sadly I do not see any of these things happening in SWTOR now, as even when the game just got off the ground and was doing well, Bioware were reluctant to consider these ideas, and now with all the layoffs, probably will never happen.
Another thing they could easily add in some form is Beast Master / Creature Handler, as they have the Companion system, which is similar, although may not be able to speak to the pets!
Originally posted by Xstatic912 Can many of you say with a guarantee that if they went the swg route the game would be better off? The game was waayyy over-budget, and as such they choose to try and mimic the most popular mmo with the star wars ip... Now let's just say its still over budget, and they choose to build on what made galaxies good.. Do you think it would pull in the sub numbers and keep those numbers for more than a year, that they needed to pull in?
These guys build Tor with the idea that they wanted to capture those players that were use to wow but tired of that setting, and as such it was a safer bet than to have built upon galaxies style. As someone yes in another topic elsewhere "No dev has found a way to bring a sandbox style game mainstream or acceptable by masses"..
With this being Bioware first mmo, I doubt they would get the sandbox thing down, plus with a over blown budget, I doubt such a game would have pull in the numbers and keep rising like the had envision (we all know how that vision went)...
Just my 2 cents..
It does not have to go the same route as SWG. There are simply just too many features missing, that are includied in other WOW clones, like LOTRO has player housing. STO has multiplayer space, companions, story creator and a bit of housing in your ships. City of Heroes has atmoshpheric flight, story creator. EQ2 has player housing, Beast Master and Dungeon Maker. WOW has Beast Master.
SWTOR is so restrictive, it makes all other MMOs seem like a sandbox!
Space combat is a joke, but then it would be wrong to call it space combat its a rail shooter and you could as easily be in a mining cart following the tracks armed with a gun shooting at troopers as you pass as it can be called space combat. BW missed the mark with this, having an opportunity to have something fantasy MMO's can't really compete with. Instead its a complete let down and for all the devs that said pre-launch interviews they enjoyed space I can only imagine this is the party line and nobody really played it for more than a 15 mins before they realised even flying the missions is repative let alone flying the regularly as content.
As for the galactic civil war its not existent. PvP is same faction death matches or fight clubbing for gear or points or whatever. No because it has any relevance in the game. As for the story while it seems like their is a war going on for the majority of the story nothing happens that is conected to the war. From the start of the story to the end the galaxy remains exactly the same as it did before and its not even clear their is a war going on. SWGs ment that you could feel part of the war front and PvP was opposing faction not fight clubbing.
But for the others I would have prefered to have seen:
5) Greater Character Customisation. SWGs was released in 2003 and yet I could adjust height and body type and a vast array of different facial features. Then if I didn't like them I could go to an image design or plastic surgeon and change it. TOR has none of this and very clone like species.
4) Crafting. I know in a sandbox crafting is very different from a themepark game but SWGs made crafting a game in itself and more than this it was useful and could be a full time profession, a dedicated crafter in TOR is going to be in trouble as he can't make anything decent without running ops to get rare materials with anything else not attracting any credits cause you can get better from question or looting.
3) Species. SWGs allowed players to play any number of different species from wookies and trandoshian to Sulstants and Rodians. The world was set in a galaxy far far away. TOR is just humans and coloured Humans. Once again BW could have taken from some many pre-existing alien species designed over the last 30 years but opted that star wars fans really only understood the humans in the film and an Alien story would be too much to comprehend.
I agree with this article but the crafting needs to be included. I really loved the crafting in SWG. TOR's crafting is not that great. I am glad i dont have to stand next to nodes but it still is not as personal as most MMO's with crafting. There is no personal touch to what you make. SWG had a great crafting system.
Bioware said they wanted to hear my opinion so I wrote them an email that had some of these points. I never got a reply.
I bought the Collector's Edition as well.
You wont get a response because you mentioned SWG. It doesnt make sense to take what works in other games and implement it in your current game. Oh no we cant do that.....lol
Unfortunately, the best thing to do, is to shut it down now, since SoE shut down SWG, because of it, unless we are destined for another repetition of the SWG torture. ToR is a great single player, but mediocre multiplayer, if we accept this, and we agree that NGE type of overhaul, destroyed SWG immersion, so it's better if EA sells the game, and what is left from Bioware, to someone who knows how to make Space Opera Games.
Speaking of, in the rising of Star Citizen by Chris Roberts, i would rather the Star Wars Game online, was run by him for example. A most probable success, because he knows how to create epic Space operas, and would succeed where everyone else has failed, that is, to make a Star Wars Online Game worthy of it's value as a Saga, in people's hearts.
In that context, i say, that the heads should be chopped, and another Big Boss to run a Star Wars Online Game. I wish George could pull the plug on them, and give it to a Grandmaster of the genre to remaster it from scratch.
It was enough with experimenting especially for this IP, for years, and it is about time, an expert takes over SW Online Gaming!
Fully supporting STAR CITIZEN by the Legendary Grandmaster of the Space Game Genre, Chris Roberts.For Captain Eisen's memory.....For Squadron 42...For the Space Genre....For the PC....I pledge! Star Citizen TOG Star Citizen-Join Us
I like the game as it is. I would simply prefer for the developers to keep adding additional flash points, operations and world pvp as that is my preferred play style. I feel that the player generated content would not be enjoyable for me. I prefer professionally developed content as the game is already rich in it and to keep that tradition going which has been a fantastic experience for my gaming friends and myself.
I really hope that nothing sandboxy ever happens to this game as I do not prefer sand box games at all.
All of these features in Mike's list would be nice for any MMO. Good ideas all.
Let's put it this way though: I stopped playing SWTOR with about 10 days left on my "free" first month. I just couldn't make myself log in after that. I wasn't expecting SWG--I promise! But I wanted a decent game. And this was not it. Even when it goes free to play, even if they added all five suggestions in Mike B.'s list and one or two more, I won't be logging in.
But I'm not playing anything now. Still waiting for that one game that will really make me care about this genre again. I still come to this site nearly everyday, hoping for the breaking story heralding that game.
Make it like Starwars Galaxies used to be. Same type space game, with player cities, ability to get flagged by visitng faction offices, same many social options that other game had.
Unfortunately so many people including myself, whenever we read of SWTOR, we dreamed of it being like galaxies.
What I would like to see is them win the lottery. Then have money to do all the neat and nifty things that everyone is listing.
But atm we all are living in la la land thinking that swtor is going to recover, recoup, and redo. But that's what this site is for . The " what if this happened " . But seriously...
SWG was one of the best mmo's out there. So many social features, crafting was amazing, space flight/combat, exploration, player housing was by far the best to be released, stats on resources ( i want more games like this), and sooooo much more.
People left due to the NGE and realy hurt the game. But many dont realise that the NGE was still 100% better than most the garbage released today or the past few years.
I bought and played SWTOR, and still to this day can not figure out why they shut down SWG for this game. SWG was a full sandbox, with optional full pvp, and had quests. This game is by far my favorite MMO and nothing in todays standards even comes close.
Yeah I want SWG, not just any sandbox, it has to be a sandbox with an IP and actual Lore. There is nothing interesting or fun/appealing to Eve Online and I hate PvP, and most other sandboxes have no lore/IP of any note... All unknown lesser stories that I have no care for... Unfortunately, every IP that I like and am interested in goes Theme Park route, so I can't play another sandbox until we ever get SWG back, EQ3 if its done right, or Titan if Blizzard is going sandboxy enough...
I like the game as it is. I would simply prefer for the developers to keep adding additional flash points, operations and world pvp as that is my preferred play style. I feel that the player generated content would not be enjoyable for me. I prefer professionally developed content as the game is already rich in it and to keep that tradition going which has been a fantastic experience for my gaming friends and myself.
I really hope that nothing sandboxy ever happens to this game as I do not prefer sand box games at all.
I am still enjoying the game as well. However, I would like more pvp / factional conflict in the game.
I like the game as it is. I would simply prefer for the developers to keep adding additional flash points, operations and world pvp as that is my preferred play style. I feel that the player generated content would not be enjoyable for me. I prefer professionally developed content as the game is already rich in it and to keep that tradition going which has been a fantastic experience for my gaming friends and myself.
I really hope that nothing sandboxy ever happens to this game as I do not prefer sand box games at all.
Based on your comment, I don't think you understand what is meant by player generated content in a sandbox.
Just give us back SWG with a new graphics engine and keep building on the NGE. There was so much left in this game, those that left it over the CU and NGE really missed out. Also it amazes me how many people I have met in SWTOR that never heard of SWG, so a bit of advertising might have helped.
Give me back SWG at sunset and keep adding to it and I would pay twice what it was costing.
I mostly agree on this, except the story part. imo the story for SWG was a bit meh. It was great they allowed players to make their own but the default stuff was just plain boring. Granted that Bioware hasn't done an epic storyline for SWTOR but I honestly don't think SWG quite ranks up to it. I have to say though the main features I loved from SWG was pre-CU where you could make any type of class you wanted and the crafting and gathering system was great.
Comments
This is a great list of things we are simply not going to see much of again. Everything he mentioned I would like to see but we won’t get it because:
Mutliperson Vechicles – MMO’s are designed with soloers first and foremost now, they only need single seaters.
Storytelling/Player Events – Only used by roleplayers, a minority designers gave up on before they gave up on groupers.
User Generated Content – This could be new content for free as far as designers are concerned, for all the ones on this list, this is the one of the most likely to be seen again. But it is design intensive and is seen incorrectly as the domain of roleplayers, and anything with the label ‘roleplayer’ is the kiss of death as regards developer time.
Factional Warfare – Always a winner in my eyes, solving issues like ganking and introducing players new to pvp in a much more game friendly way. Design intensive though, often needs two separate PvE paths, but SWTOR has that. Of all the list this is the most natural for SWTOR.
Space Combat – This would require more development time than Factional, so less likely to see. It would transform the game though and could be very solo friendly which is all they care about these days. So you never know. If the add this I could go back to SWTOR, it would be that much of a game changer.
Another thing they could easily add in some form is Beast Master / Creature Handler, as they have the Companion system, which is similar, although may not be able to speak to the pets!
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
It does not have to go the same route as SWG. There are simply just too many features missing, that are includied in other WOW clones, like LOTRO has player housing. STO has multiplayer space, companions, story creator and a bit of housing in your ships. City of Heroes has atmoshpheric flight, story creator. EQ2 has player housing, Beast Master and Dungeon Maker. WOW has Beast Master.
SWTOR is so restrictive, it makes all other MMOs seem like a sandbox!
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
Fully agree with 1 and 2 on your list.
Space combat is a joke, but then it would be wrong to call it space combat its a rail shooter and you could as easily be in a mining cart following the tracks armed with a gun shooting at troopers as you pass as it can be called space combat. BW missed the mark with this, having an opportunity to have something fantasy MMO's can't really compete with. Instead its a complete let down and for all the devs that said pre-launch interviews they enjoyed space I can only imagine this is the party line and nobody really played it for more than a 15 mins before they realised even flying the missions is repative let alone flying the regularly as content.
As for the galactic civil war its not existent. PvP is same faction death matches or fight clubbing for gear or points or whatever. No because it has any relevance in the game. As for the story while it seems like their is a war going on for the majority of the story nothing happens that is conected to the war. From the start of the story to the end the galaxy remains exactly the same as it did before and its not even clear their is a war going on. SWGs ment that you could feel part of the war front and PvP was opposing faction not fight clubbing.
But for the others I would have prefered to have seen:
5) Greater Character Customisation. SWGs was released in 2003 and yet I could adjust height and body type and a vast array of different facial features. Then if I didn't like them I could go to an image design or plastic surgeon and change it. TOR has none of this and very clone like species.
4) Crafting. I know in a sandbox crafting is very different from a themepark game but SWGs made crafting a game in itself and more than this it was useful and could be a full time profession, a dedicated crafter in TOR is going to be in trouble as he can't make anything decent without running ops to get rare materials with anything else not attracting any credits cause you can get better from question or looting.
3) Species. SWGs allowed players to play any number of different species from wookies and trandoshian to Sulstants and Rodians. The world was set in a galaxy far far away. TOR is just humans and coloured Humans. Once again BW could have taken from some many pre-existing alien species designed over the last 30 years but opted that star wars fans really only understood the humans in the film and an Alien story would be too much to comprehend.
You wont get a response because you mentioned SWG. It doesnt make sense to take what works in other games and implement it in your current game. Oh no we cant do that.....lol
Unfortunately, the best thing to do, is to shut it down now, since SoE shut down SWG, because of it, unless we are destined for another repetition of the SWG torture. ToR is a great single player, but mediocre multiplayer, if we accept this, and we agree that NGE type of overhaul, destroyed SWG immersion, so it's better if EA sells the game, and what is left from Bioware, to someone who knows how to make Space Opera Games.
Speaking of, in the rising of Star Citizen by Chris Roberts, i would rather the Star Wars Game online, was run by him for example. A most probable success, because he knows how to create epic Space operas, and would succeed where everyone else has failed, that is, to make a Star Wars Online Game worthy of it's value as a Saga, in people's hearts.
In that context, i say, that the heads should be chopped, and another Big Boss to run a Star Wars Online Game. I wish George could pull the plug on them, and give it to a Grandmaster of the genre to remaster it from scratch.
It was enough with experimenting especially for this IP, for years, and it is about time, an expert takes over SW Online Gaming!
Fully supporting STAR CITIZEN by the Legendary Grandmaster of the Space Game Genre, Chris Roberts.For Captain Eisen's memory.....For Squadron 42...For the Space Genre....For the PC....I pledge!
Star Citizen
TOG Star Citizen-Join Us
Star Wars: The Old Republic Column: SWG Features I’d Love to We'll Never See in SWTOR
I like the game as it is. I would simply prefer for the developers to keep adding additional flash points, operations and world pvp as that is my preferred play style. I feel that the player generated content would not be enjoyable for me. I prefer professionally developed content as the game is already rich in it and to keep that tradition going which has been a fantastic experience for my gaming friends and myself.
I really hope that nothing sandboxy ever happens to this game as I do not prefer sand box games at all.
Real, playable alien races; not just blue and green humans.
Flexlible class system. (I only played SWG at release.)
All of these features in Mike's list would be nice for any MMO. Good ideas all.
Let's put it this way though: I stopped playing SWTOR with about 10 days left on my "free" first month. I just couldn't make myself log in after that. I wasn't expecting SWG--I promise! But I wanted a decent game. And this was not it. Even when it goes free to play, even if they added all five suggestions in Mike B.'s list and one or two more, I won't be logging in.
But I'm not playing anything now. Still waiting for that one game that will really make me care about this genre again. I still come to this site nearly everyday, hoping for the breaking story heralding that game.
Maybe Star Citizen...?
Gawl
To make it short and it other words:
Make it like Starwars Galaxies used to be. Same type space game, with player cities, ability to get flagged by visitng faction offices, same many social options that other game had.
Unfortunately so many people including myself, whenever we read of SWTOR, we dreamed of it being like galaxies.
What I would like to see is them win the lottery. Then have money to do all the neat and nifty things that everyone is listing.
But atm we all are living in la la land thinking that swtor is going to recover, recoup, and redo. But that's what this site is for . The " what if this happened " . But seriously...
What this guy said. Bring back an original MMORPG
Wumi - SWG - Bloodfin - Cancelled
Wumi - WoW - Eu-Kazzak - Cancelled
Bulldozer - Aion - Eu-Kahrun - Cancelled
Wumi - Rift - EU-Riptalon - Cancelled
SWG was one of the best mmo's out there. So many social features, crafting was amazing, space flight/combat, exploration, player housing was by far the best to be released, stats on resources ( i want more games like this), and sooooo much more.
People left due to the NGE and realy hurt the game. But many dont realise that the NGE was still 100% better than most the garbage released today or the past few years.
I bought and played SWTOR, and still to this day can not figure out why they shut down SWG for this game. SWG was a full sandbox, with optional full pvp, and had quests. This game is by far my favorite MMO and nothing in todays standards even comes close.
BRING BACK SWG!!!! Or make SWG 2
I am still enjoying the game as well. However, I would like more pvp / factional conflict in the game.
Based on your comment, I don't think you understand what is meant by player generated content in a sandbox.
Agree with all points, but No mention of player housing?
Give me back SWG at sunset and keep adding to it and I would pay twice what it was costing.