I don't see the big deal because I always felt Bioware was overrated I guess. A good company for sure, but not great to me, seeing as I like my games with a lot less talking.
Yep that's why I had to update my sig. EA is the bringer of death when it comes to mmo games. When I heard EA was behind SWtOR I wasn't going to bother with it. Then I finally caved only because I had a lot of friends wanting me to play. None of them play as of today...
"I'm sorry but your mmo has been diagnosed with EA and only has X number of days to live."
EA got on my crap list by not what it has done to the companies it has bought out, but more of what it done to the football (american) game competition AND the pulling of all of their PC Sports titles...
I'm sure most of you probably don't care, but they bought out the exclusive rights to the NFL effectively killing the competition and ending the epic football game showdown we had going back in 04 and 05.. Leaving us with that lackluster Madden for all those years and at the same time removing the PC support of that title which meant that PC gamers had NO football sim at all, or any sports for that matter..
I still think pretty highly of the company because of the other titles I grew up playing from them besides sports like the Need For Speed series and genesis classics like General Chaos..
But they are looking to be a bad note in alot of peoples eyes with what they have turned many companies prized IP's into..
Bioware died at the moment when they parted with Black Isle and released their first own game - Neverwinter Nights. Every game thereafter including NWN went downhill, more linear, more cut-scenes, more soap opera with your companies, more filler combat.
Baldur's Gate 1 was fantastic, Baldur's Gate 2 was alright, thanks to Black Isle and Bryan Fargo rather than Bioware.
Go Look at Eternity on Kickstarter / Baldurs Gate is back in a different guise. (Cmon Oldschool). Gaming is on its way back.
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
Originally posted by Sevenstar61 Truth suffers from too much analysis.
Said science never.....
What part of "too much" you don't understand?
When did science (or any analytical observation) suffer from too much analysis? Truth finding is porportional to the reduction of error, which can only be achieved through more analysis.....now if your talking about subjective viewpoints well then yes too much analysis of opinions can hurt
It just sound like one big mad rush to get the game completed in time, and they hired more people to get it done. In the end it was not just a Bioware game, but Bioware and friends, with "friends" being graduates from development schools, who no doubt were clueless about what was really wanted, with them coming in late, and there was no more solid bond with everyone, that there was with past Bioware games. Bioware would not have afforded to employ those graduates, but EA did.
"Too many cooks spoil the broth" come to mind here
During the last six months of development, the team began a difficult triage process; where features that weren’t going to make it for launch were cut. All development heads were summoned to daily meetings at what Dallas dubbed ‘The Death Star’ – with each team being coached on what to cut, and what to keep. “Some developers cried,” explained Dallas. “I didn’t enjoy that.”
Seems to me you missread.
The game was rushed not because they had not enought time (6 years: started in Dec, 2005) nor enought buget (200ish millions, ie 3+ times Rift Budget) , nor enough people (800 people vs 200ish for other MMO).
It was rushed out of the door because they didn't know how to properly manage such a budget and such a big project.
It was rushed because they wasted 5 years not even having a polished game after that time and that's why EA allowed them one more year to finish the game, which was extended to december (awful launch date) vs october
That is how Bioware rolled, in the past - they take their time creating gaming masterpieces, but EA rushed them. Bioware no longer had the luxury of taking their time with this
They could not manage it well, because EA was breathing down their necks
Others MMO have roundly 4 years, $50ish millions, 200 ish persons
6 years, $200 millions, 800 persons is a luxury.
And contrary to what you are stating EA gave free reign on the development of the game till the last year when they realized BioWare was nowhere to be ready to have any progress made.
You seriously think that Bioware managed to create awesom games for years, and now of all a sudden they have EA to work with, that Bioware alone are really awful developers and that pre-EA, all their awesome games were just flukes?
To be fair BG was nice and Kotor too but:
Planescape torment, made without BioWare was way better than BG and it was made by BlackIsle.
Kotor was fine but Kotor II was even better, story and game play wise, even if you consider it was rushed out of the door by LA with half finished story. Now for Kotor, everyones agrees on the story was nice and the combat just fair.
In terms of RP, The Witcher is way better than all BioWare story and game play as Risen is better too.
So BioWare indeed made nice story but not that great games and not even the best story.
I'm not saying they are bad, they are nice but not top notch.
Back to TOR story wise most of TOR scripts are bland, cliche and unappealing.
You are the odd one out then / in the minority, as many many people / the majority found Bioware games awesome and why it sold 2 million at launch. If the game was made by Cryptic or SOE, it would not have sold well at all. Plus I doubt a Risen or a Witcher MMO would sell as well either. Not that that they are bad games, but Bioware had built up a hugely better reputation.
Also KOTOR > KOTOR 2 and KOTOR 2 was by Obsidian not Bioware.
TOR can not be viewed as a Bioware project any more, it had too many extra people on it, especially noobs straight out of school They may be the best but they certainly would not have had any / much experience, especially Bioware experience.
If Bioware were in total control, they would not have released the game until it was ready, even if it meant not releasing until 2014 or later, and the last 6 months would not have been done cutting the game down, as Bioware were all about creating awesome games, EA is all about making money.
If Bioware kept the game within their own budget, and did not have the millions EA chucked at it, the game probably would have been smaller, but a lot lot better.
EA just wanted to hit Activision/Blizzard where it hurt, and Bioware got caught up in the middle
You're missing the point entirely. Time had nothing to do with it. They had plenty of time. 5+ years. Their overall design philosophy was flawed from the start. This was their first MMO, so no amount of time would change that. Bioware failed at making a stellar MMO to hold people's interest. Read my list again, and realize how the design of the game effected the outcome of what we see now. Time had nothing to do with it. Planning, designing, managing, budgeting, etc.; was what they failed at.
They may not have done a MMO before but Mythic did, and they were part of the team, and the main point is it was not just Bioware but a whole load of other people getting it done as well
"Too many cooks spoil the broth"
Time was relevant, as it proportionate to the size of the game which was HUGE. 5+ years was apparently not enough time for it. If Bioware had just their budget to work with, then the game would have been smaller, but it would have come out a lot lot better. They managed to "plan, design, manage, budget" all their other games OK. Why not this one? EA is why - They poured too much money into it, and was not going to let Bioware do it alone.
Austin studio asked for more money and more time. They sold a mirage to EA (& the players) and everyone fell in the trap.
Lack of time and money wasn't the issue.
Poor management and bad design decisions were the main issues, topped with really poor interaction with the player base.
I find it realy funny to see anyone writing hey it's not their fault, they had too much money! I mean, seriously?
Blame EA for setting a hard date, but don't forget BioWare asked for it and certainly don't forget LA in the equation.
If you have things like Jedi in Huttball with glowbats, Smugglers with force lighting and Sith consulars... they say yes to all that.
Bioware went turdmode following Blizzard's model, and Blizzard basically pooped on itself with D3.
I mean, why take out the elements of the previous installations that made their series great.
Bioware takes customization out of their ME series after the first installation to follow Blizzard's absurdly successful noobie-friendly model and goes down the toilet.
Blizzard basically thought they could milk the same noobie-friendly lack of substance formula from WoW to D3, but boy were they wrong.
Seriously, who in the world wants to play an inferior copy of D2 with pastel graphics?
I complained during D3 CBT that the hype will die so quick because D3 has no substance (skill tree super lame, no stat distribution, lack of class variety). Noone took my words seriously at the time. Now look at D3. It's garbage, and noone wants to play it.
Bioware still seems to have some great scriptwriters at their disposal, but that is about it. They have nothing else. And ME3 was a slightly "worse" garbage then ME2.
GRIND sucks? You wanna be max level in a month? Since when did society award easy-goers and lazy-fools? MAKES ME PHOBIC OF STUPIDITY!
Comments
"I'm sorry but your mmo has been diagnosed with EA and only has X number of days to live."
EA got on my crap list by not what it has done to the companies it has bought out, but more of what it done to the football (american) game competition AND the pulling of all of their PC Sports titles...
I'm sure most of you probably don't care, but they bought out the exclusive rights to the NFL effectively killing the competition and ending the epic football game showdown we had going back in 04 and 05.. Leaving us with that lackluster Madden for all those years and at the same time removing the PC support of that title which meant that PC gamers had NO football sim at all, or any sports for that matter..
I still think pretty highly of the company because of the other titles I grew up playing from them besides sports like the Need For Speed series and genesis classics like General Chaos..
But they are looking to be a bad note in alot of peoples eyes with what they have turned many companies prized IP's into..
Nothing really surprising about that, it's what they always do.
Go Look at Eternity on Kickstarter / Baldurs Gate is back in a different guise. (Cmon Oldschool). Gaming is on its way back.
________________________________________________________
Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
Sith Warrior - Story of Hate and Love http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxKrlwXt7Ao
Imperial Agent - Rise of Cipher Nine http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBBj3eJWBvU&feature=youtu.be
Imperial Agent - Hunt for the Eagle Part 1http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQqjYYU128E
Said science never.....
What part of "too much" you don't understand?
Sith Warrior - Story of Hate and Love http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxKrlwXt7Ao
Imperial Agent - Rise of Cipher Nine http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBBj3eJWBvU&feature=youtu.be
Imperial Agent - Hunt for the Eagle Part 1http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQqjYYU128E
When did science (or any analytical observation) suffer from too much analysis? Truth finding is porportional to the reduction of error, which can only be achieved through more analysis.....now if your talking about subjective viewpoints well then yes too much analysis of opinions can hurt
Austin studio asked for more money and more time. They sold a mirage to EA (& the players) and everyone fell in the trap.
Lack of time and money wasn't the issue.
Poor management and bad design decisions were the main issues, topped with really poor interaction with the player base.
I find it realy funny to see anyone writing hey it's not their fault, they had too much money! I mean, seriously?
Blame EA for setting a hard date, but don't forget BioWare asked for it and certainly don't forget LA in the equation.
If you have things like Jedi in Huttball with glowbats, Smugglers with force lighting and Sith consulars... they say yes to all that.
Bioware went turdmode following Blizzard's model, and Blizzard basically pooped on itself with D3.
I mean, why take out the elements of the previous installations that made their series great.
Bioware takes customization out of their ME series after the first installation to follow Blizzard's absurdly successful noobie-friendly model and goes down the toilet.
Blizzard basically thought they could milk the same noobie-friendly lack of substance formula from WoW to D3, but boy were they wrong.
Seriously, who in the world wants to play an inferior copy of D2 with pastel graphics?
I complained during D3 CBT that the hype will die so quick because D3 has no substance (skill tree super lame, no stat distribution, lack of class variety). Noone took my words seriously at the time. Now look at D3. It's garbage, and noone wants to play it.
Bioware still seems to have some great scriptwriters at their disposal, but that is about it. They have nothing else. And ME3 was a slightly "worse" garbage then ME2.
GRIND sucks? You wanna be max level in a month?
Since when did society award easy-goers and lazy-fools?
MAKES ME PHOBIC OF STUPIDITY!