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X-Fire
Yamota
Member UncommonPosts: 6,593
I just saw a thread being locked because it was about XFire and those threads are often derailed into like or not like X-Fire. However, why can't us, who do like X-Fire, be able to discuss it and use it as a measure of population trends?
It is not our fault it is being hi-jacked by X-Fire haters. If anything they should be warned for hi-jacking a topic which was not about the validity of X-Fire, which was assumed.
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
Usually X-fire 'lovers' are spinning the 'numbers played on any game' to create troll threads whethere a game is a success or a failure, like they represent the whole gaming community. This ends up in a thread getting derailed.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
I dont know what others are doing but I believe in XFire as a tool to gauge population trends and this is what I use to create threads. So I dont know what you mean with troll threads but if you dont believe in XFire as a good tool then dont bloody read them.
Us who do believe in it should be able to discuss the trends without having the threads derailed and eventually locked.
My gaming blog
you asked a question. check.
you got a neutral opinion. check.
you got mad? check.
You use Xfire to see population/popularity trends, as you posted.
I see threads posted by Xfire users saying the numbers are cold hard facts whether a game is fail or not transform into a troll thread. I give you my opinion as to why this happens.
[mod edit]
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
I agree with you about the ham-fisted way XFire threads are locked. I personally don't put much stock into XFire, but I know many people do. The mods have said they lock the threads because it always devolves into Xfire good/Xfire bad and 'Game' good/'Game' bad. However, I've personally seen XFire threads that were locked even when a lot of good points were being made so I think there should be more discretion used when locking the threads. But, hey, it's their website.
However, one premise of your argument that I disagree with: why shouldn't someone dispute the validity of an XFire claim? How do you argue a point if you can't actually argue the point? If you say XFire shows such and such about this game, therefore this game is good/bad, how can anyone discuss that? I don't see how the use of XFire stats to make a point should be immune from discussion.
You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???
Be afraid.....The dragons are HERE!
Please define the type of person that uses Xfire. After that define the type of person who plays game x. Now compare if it's applicable to make any correlation in how well a game is doing.
This how ever is never done. So no, Xfire statistics are never useful for anything.
Well as I see it they are to separate issues to discuss. One is if X-Fire is valid as a population trend tool, the other is assuming it is, how is the population trends of said game?
So the discussion of wether X-Fire is valid or not is one discussion which has been done to death and no point in further discussing. The other is discussing the population trends of the actual game. The former one I can agree needs to be locked but, those of us who do believe in X-Fire as a valid tool, should be able to discuss the second topic. Those who dont can simply ignore the thread because, in their opinion, it is invalid to begin with since it relies on an assumption they dont agree with.
So in other words I should be able to say that, based on X-Fire numbers, the population of game X or Y is going up/down and discuss the reasons for it without having the thread derailed into an X-Fire validity discussion.
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It's possible that Xfire users are as varied as the people who play a given game. Granted, they are likely more heavily invested in video games, which would make sense as they are a part of a video game community.
One could argue that people more heavily invested in video games will spend more time in video games in general. It could also be argued that people that are more heavily invested in video games are more familiar with what works and what doesn't within games, as they have generally experienced more of them.
On those premises, it seems like Xfire or Raptr communities would be more likely to accurately predict trends in game. However, this fails if the more casual player's behavior significantly deviates from that of a player involved in video game communities, even over time.
I personally believe that more casual players generally come to the same conclusions, there's just a lag time, the duration of which is dependent on the number of hours spent in game on a regular basis.
Now this is what I dont want this thread getting derailed to because then it will be locked. The purpose of this thread is to clarify how we can or cannot use XFire as a basis for population trends. And if not, what tools are we allowed to use to discuss population trends if Xfire is not allowed?
My gaming blog
My opinions are:
1) XFire shows the trends and I haven't heard of an instant where an XFire trend was the opposite of reality in the West
2) The moderation/deletion is too heavy handed on those threads, but if it bothers the mods just inform everyone that bickering about the accuracy of XFire in an XFire thread is derailing and you will get a short ban. It's far too easy to just kill any and all threads on XFire than it is to police people trying to derail them because the game they like is struggling. Just temp ban the person and remove all of their posts, and response to them, from the thread.
XFire numbers are both interesting and useful to an extent. Banning discussion of them isn't really a great thing for the community.
So you want your thread to look like this?
Why is the XFire population of 'Game' declining?
"'Game' sucks."
"'Game' isn't really an MMO."
"Since 'Game' has <business model> it's Pay2Win (or not worth the price)."
(mod edit) (orignally said "XFire numbers aren't a good indicator of anything except that XFire users aren't playing")
"I'm bored with 'Game'."
"'Game' sucks."
Does that about cover it? Because that is exactly what would happen if you make a thread where someone can't dispute the validity of XFire numbers.
Of course, the reverse would be true also. When XFire numbers go up, you would have threads talking about how awesome 'Game' is and can't have anyone say anything to the contrary.
You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???
Be afraid.....The dragons are HERE!
That's an interesting point. Is there a historical instance of Xfire numbers showing an opposite trend of what actually happened (even if it took a bit of time for it to reflect on a wider scale)? If it can be shown that Xfire numbers have incorrectly forecasted trends in the past, it would certainly go a long ways towards actually proving Xfire numbers are not credible. If that historical instance or instances do not exist, it significantly contributes towards proving Xfire numbers are, in fact, quite credible.
Way to distort what I say but disregarding that, so according to your reasoning we cannot have any discussions about population trends unless it is based on pure facts? So that means we cannot have any discussions at all about population trends because only a handful of games are releasing those numbers.
Heck, why not remove all threads then which are not based pure on facts? This is a discussion forum, we should be able to have discussions based on assumptions. You think that assumption is biased and false so be it, why are you engaging into a discussion which you already think is based on something you dont believe in? Makes no sense to me, unless you want to derail the thread...
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What population of gamers use Xfire? What type of games do these players tend to play?
I will use GW2 as an example. GW2 really caters toward the more casual MMO and new MMO player, not the hardcore or RP players, it seems. I don't think many of these players have heard of Xfire or Raptr and they probably don't have them installed. This meant both of those numbers do not trend the majority of players for GW2. Hence, the numbers are not accurate.
In order for Xfire and Raptr numbers to be valid, you would need: 1. it pragram installed with the game for 100% of the players. OR 2. You know the % of the the players, of a particular that use Xfire. Then and only then can these numbers be valid. These numbers are not like population or demographic data because they are not random - people have to install these programs to be counted.
As noted previously, we've been closing most XFire threads because they do nothing but stir up negativity and arguments. It's not a measure that applies to 100% of players and thus 'population trends' is often an excuse to compare two or three games and pit their players against each other. But here's MikeB's post on the matter:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5277723#5277723
To give feedback on moderation, contact mikeb@mmorpg.com