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World of Weaksauce

ErowErow Member Posts: 14
in World of Warcraft

Well I tried out the sample edition of World of Warcraft lately.  I am so glad I did that instead of re-subbing my old account.  I don't even recognize the game any more.

No talent trees?  No alternate weapons slots?  WTF?  No reason to see trainers except to respec?

This game just keeps getting more and more watered down with every expansion.

What a shame.

Goodby World of Warcraft, hello World of Weaksauce.

«1

Comments

  • muffins89muffins89 Member UncommonPosts: 1,585
    the reduced roll of trainers was kind of needed.  otherwise you'd be flying back to undercity every other quest.  the game is more streamlined now for sure.
  • SlampigSlampig Member UncommonPosts: 2,342
    Originally posted by Erow

    Well I tried out the sample edition of World of Warcraft lately.  I am so glad I did that instead of re-subbing my old account.  I don't even recognize the game any more.

    No talent trees?  No alternate weapons slots?  WTF?  No reason to see trainers except to respec?

    This game just keeps getting more and more watered down with every expansion.

    What a shame.

    Goodby World of Warcraft, hello World of Weaksauce.

    A-GOO!

    That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!

  • MMOExposedMMOExposed Member RarePosts: 7,400
    so first people complain that people stay in cities all the time, but when Blizzard gives you a reason not to go to cities, you also complain? interesting.

    Philosophy of MMO Game Design

  • KuinnKuinn Member UncommonPosts: 2,072
    Originally posted by MMOExposed
    so first people complain that people stay in cities all the time, but when Blizzard gives you a reason not to go to cities, you also complain? interesting.

     

    Yes, people used to stand around cities all day long because the trainers are there. Now that the need of visiting trainers is gone and they are all still standing there, it must be because they are not yet aware of the change. Yes, this must be it.

  • Arcondo87Arcondo87 Member Posts: 94
    Originally posted by Kuinn
    Originally posted by MMOExposed
    so first people complain that people stay in cities all the time, but when Blizzard gives you a reason not to go to cities, you also complain? interesting.

     

    Yes, people used to stand around cities all day long because the trainers are there. Now that the need of visiting trainers is gone and they are all still standing there, it must be because they are not yet aware of the change. Yes, this must be it.

    NOW ppl stand arround in cities all day cuz they dont ever have to leave! With LFG and raidfinder now. Why do you even have to leave? just stay in SW/Org and keep bashing the LFG and LFR till your 90. This game is sooo dummed down its not even funny any more...cant believe how lazy the world has become over the past 6 years...what happen to exploration and traveling.

    Maybe the 2012 end of the world is what this world needs to start a new and kill off all these lazy ass generation....

  • GormogonGormogon Member UncommonPosts: 224

    At OP: if you originally played WoW because of it's *cough* "rigorous" talent system, ability to shoot a bow on a warrior or wand with a caster, and to speak with trainers to acquire abilities, and now "can't recognize it" because it removed those things, then let's face it, you absolutely diid not "get" the game to begin with.

     

    Or maybe you had already made up your mind that the game was no longer worth playing, and to "prove" this to yourself you downloaded a trial, played it briefly and came up with the most immediate differences you noticed for why it was not longer worth playing.

  • roo67roo67 Member Posts: 402
    Originally posted by Gormogon

    At OP: if you originally played WoW because of it's *cough* "rigorous" talent system, ability to shoot a bow on a warrior or wand with a caster, and to speak with trainers to acquire abilities, and now "can't recognize it" because it removed those things, then let's face it, you absolutely diid not "get" the game to begin with.

     

    Or maybe you had already made up your mind that the game was no longer worth playing, and to "prove" this to yourself you downloaded a trial, played it briefly and came up with the most immediate differences you noticed for why it was not longer worth playing.

    So when did you start playing it out of interest ?

  • AegisSagaAegisSaga Member Posts: 33
    Originally posted by Arcondo87
    Originally posted by Kuinn
    Originally posted by MMOExposed
    so first people complain that people stay in cities all the time, but when Blizzard gives you a reason not to go to cities, you also complain? interesting.

     

    Yes, people used to stand around cities all day long because the trainers are there. Now that the need of visiting trainers is gone and they are all still standing there, it must be because they are not yet aware of the change. Yes, this must be it.

    NOW ppl stand arround in cities all day cuz they dont ever have to leave! With LFG and raidfinder now. Why do you even have to leave? just stay in SW/Org and keep bashing the LFG and LFR till your 90. This game is sooo dummed down its not even funny any more...cant believe how lazy the world has become over the past 6 years...what happen to exploration and traveling.

    Maybe the 2012 end of the world is what this world needs to start a new and kill off all these lazy ass generation....

     

    Dumbed down? World of Warcraft's meat is not the leveling, it's the endgame. Complaining that WoW is easy after just leveling is like saying that Big Mac combo you just bought has no calories just because you've only tasted the diet coke that came with it.

     

    Try doing heroic raids, that's where you'll find challenge: a bigger challenge than any other themepark MMO out there. If you don't like raiding, then WoW is not for you, basically.

  • moguy2moguy2 Member Posts: 337
    Originally posted by Gormogon

    At OP: if you originally played WoW because of it's *cough* "rigorous" talent system, ability to shoot a bow on a warrior or wand with a caster, and to speak with trainers to acquire abilities, and now "can't recognize it" because it removed those things, then let's face it, you absolutely diid not "get" the game to begin with.

     

    Or maybe you had already made up your mind that the game was no longer worth playing, and to "prove" this to yourself you downloaded a trial, played it briefly and came up with the most immediate differences you noticed for why it was not longer worth playing.

    What he is saying is you dont have to think any more. Even if assigning  points wasnt super hard , that part of where you actually used your brain to do it is gone. Everyone has super powers in the lower levels. You actually dont even need a tank or healer cause stuff dies so fast due to everyone being over powered.

    So yeah, he hit it on the head. Everything IS dumbed down. Alot of pre teens  can now play this . As long as their parents tell them to not chew on crayons while doing dungeons or LFR ! ROFL! 

     

    And yes, you have logged in...got in a group....and quit out cause you were tired of the kids.....

  • roo67roo67 Member Posts: 402
    Originally posted by AegisSaga
    Originally posted by Arcondo87
    Originally posted by Kuinn
    Originally posted by MMOExposed
    so first people complain that people stay in cities all the time, but when Blizzard gives you a reason not to go to cities, you also complain? interesting.

     

    Yes, people used to stand around cities all day long because the trainers are there. Now that the need of visiting trainers is gone and they are all still standing there, it must be because they are not yet aware of the change. Yes, this must be it.

    NOW ppl stand arround in cities all day cuz they dont ever have to leave! With LFG and raidfinder now. Why do you even have to leave? just stay in SW/Org and keep bashing the LFG and LFR till your 90. This game is sooo dummed down its not even funny any more...cant believe how lazy the world has become over the past 6 years...what happen to exploration and traveling.

    Maybe the 2012 end of the world is what this world needs to start a new and kill off all these lazy ass generation....

     

    Dumbed down? World of Warcraft's meat is not the leveling, it's the endgame. Complaining that WoW is easy after just leveling is like saying that Big Mac combo you just bought has no calories just because you've only tasted the diet coke that came with it.

     

    Try doing heroic raids, that's where you'll find challenge: a bigger challenge than any other themepark MMO out there. If you don't like raiding, then WoW is not for you, basically.

    Well you hardly get steak even at the endgame . I don't think you can have played many other mmos if your seriously think WoW has a bigger challenge thanany other themepark mmo . Your basically talking out of your nether regions or your deluding yourself .

    Also to get to the chellenging content your talking about you have to go through 90 levels of appallingly easy content and gear up . Admitedly its a lot easier to level up but my god its boring .

    Dont get me wrong WoW great for kids ,ultra casual and new gamers but theres very little there for medium and hard core gamers because the majority of the game is on easy mode .

    I have to laugh when people try and argue that the game hasn't been dumbed down anyone with an 8 year frame of reference can see it has .

  • ChrisboxChrisbox Member UncommonPosts: 1,729
    No alternate weapon slots is fine, they made it so that you know what you have to use and dont need anything extra.  For example hunters only use Bows no melee now...Thats not a bad thing at all Im fine without having to worry about my stat stick. 

    Played-Everything
    Playing-LoL

  • GormogonGormogon Member UncommonPosts: 224
    Originally posted by moguy2
    Originally posted by Gormogon

    At OP: if you originally played WoW because of it's *cough* "rigorous" talent system, ability to shoot a bow on a warrior or wand with a caster, and to speak with trainers to acquire abilities, and now "can't recognize it" because it removed those things, then let's face it, you absolutely diid not "get" the game to begin with.

     

    Or maybe you had already made up your mind that the game was no longer worth playing, and to "prove" this to yourself you downloaded a trial, played it briefly and came up with the most immediate differences you noticed for why it was not longer worth playing.

    What he is saying is you dont have to think any more. Even if assigning  points wasnt super hard , that part of where you actually used your brain to do it is gone. Everyone has super powers in the lower levels. You actually dont even need a tank or healer cause stuff dies so fast due to everyone being over powered.

    So yeah, he hit it on the head. Everything IS dumbed down. Alot of pre teens  can now play this . As long as their parents tell them to not chew on crayons while doing dungeons or LFR ! ROFL! 

     

    And yes, you have logged in...got in a group....and quit out cause you were tired of the kids.....

     

    Really, picking one of the functional builds for you class required "using your brain" in some significant sense?

     

    For people who had any brain at all the talent choices for their desired role were typically blatantly obvious, and for the rest there was the internet to copy down the build the rest figured out.  Simcraft to determine the benefit of one point here or there was something done by an extremely small group of people with the knowledge of how to write and run the relevant simulations.  Excuse me for "making up" stats, but I can promise that group of players was less than 1% of the entire player population of WoW.

     

    The remaining talent choices allow for players to select abilities that are situational useful in either PvP or PvE, just like the few "extra points" one might have had laying around in the old talent system.

     

    Other demands on ideal gearing and ability selection still exist as they always have.  No two clases get the same use out of all gear statistics.

     

    If going back to a trainer to acquire abilities, or having to select/fight over gear for a gear slot that never gets used after the early levels was intellectually challenging to the point that removing it is a notable case of "dumbing down", I really have no answer that the "dumbing down" crowd could comprehend.

     

    The difficulty of the game relative to player abilities WAS NOT brought up in the OP.  And for every argument that level 1-85 content is "dumbed down" I submit the fact that new players are now asked to gain 90 levels instead of 60 as in classic WoW or 70 in TBC, and that I was there in TBC when lower level content was already dead and you had to buy runs or ask guildmates to run you if you wanted to do instances or elite questing zones while leveling.  Do you really maintain that leveling through mostly empty zones while experiencing even less content without getting high level players to do it for you is better?   They've made more of the game world accessible to the leveling player than there was five years ago.  That certainly means the leveling experience at any given point is less challenging, but you need to make a better case for it being worse as a gaming experience than just throwing out "it's dumbed down" IMO.

     

    The prevailing idea that making the leveling experience easier has created bad players has existed forever and whatever truth exists in it lies with the elitists who refuse to run with, teach, and be patient with new players ... refusing such players the benefit of experience they received from others when they were learning how to play.

     

    I can't speak to the maturity of WoW players, but as for whether "WOW iz fild wid a buntch ov 10 yer oleds", perhaps you can offer a study that shows WoW's player demographics differ significantly from other major MMOs out there?

     

    For the guy who asked earlier, I started playing WoW in 2007 when TBC was released and most of the top raiding guilds were still working on Kara.  I fail to see how my experience is relevant to the point that the talent system, accessory weapon slot, and class trainers were never the reason to be playing the game, whether today or nearly six years ago as you seem to want to imply.

  • moguy2moguy2 Member Posts: 337
    Originally posted by Gormogon
    Originally posted by moguy2
    Originally posted by Gormogon

    At OP: if you originally played WoW because of it's *cough* "rigorous" talent system, ability to shoot a bow on a warrior or wand with a caster, and to speak with trainers to acquire abilities, and now "can't recognize it" because it removed those things, then let's face it, you absolutely diid not "get" the game to begin with.

     

    Or maybe you had already made up your mind that the game was no longer worth playing, and to "prove" this to yourself you downloaded a trial, played it briefly and came up with the most immediate differences you noticed for why it was not longer worth playing.

    What he is saying is you dont have to think any more. Even if assigning  points wasnt super hard , that part of where you actually used your brain to do it is gone. Everyone has super powers in the lower levels. You actually dont even need a tank or healer cause stuff dies so fast due to everyone being over powered.

    So yeah, he hit it on the head. Everything IS dumbed down. Alot of pre teens  can now play this . As long as their parents tell them to not chew on crayons while doing dungeons or LFR ! ROFL! 

     

    And yes, you have logged in...got in a group....and quit out cause you were tired of the kids.....

     

    Really, picking one of the functional builds for you class required "using your brain" in some significant sense?

     

    For people who had any brain at all the talent choices for their desired role were typically blatantly obvious, and for the rest there was the internet to copy down the build the rest figured out.  Simcraft to determine the benefit of one point here or there was something done by an extremely small group of people with the knowledge of how to write and run the relevant simulations.  Excuse me for "making up" stats, but I can promise that group of players was less than 1% of the entire player population of WoW.

     

    The remaining talent choices allow for players to select abilities that are situational useful in either PvP or PvE, just like the few "extra points" one might have had laying around in the old talent system.

     

    Other demands on ideal gearing and ability selection still exist as they always have.  No two clases get the same use out of all gear statistics.

     

    If going back to a trainer to acquire abilities, or having to select/fight over gear for a gear slot that never gets used after the early levels was intellectually challenging to the point that removing it is a notable case of "dumbing down", I really have no answer that the "dumbing down" crowd could comprehend.

     

    The difficulty of the game relative to player abilities WAS NOT brought up in the OP.  And for every argument that level 1-85 content is "dumbed down" I submit the fact that new players are now asked to gain 90 levels instead of 60 as in classic WoW or 70 in TBC, and that I was there in TBC when lower level content was already dead and you had to buy runs or ask guildmates to run you if you wanted to do instances or elite questing zones while leveling.  Do you really maintain that leveling through mostly empty zones while experiencing even less content without getting high level players to do it for you is better?   They've made more of the game world accessible to the leveling player than there was five years ago.  That certainly means the leveling experience at any given point is less challenging, but you need to make a better case for it being worse as a gaming experience than just throwing out "it's dumbed down" IMO.

     

    The prevailing idea that making the leveling experience easier has created bad players has existed forever and whatever truth exists in it lies with the elitists who refuse to run with, teach, and be patient with new players ... refusing such players the benefit of experience they received from others when they were learning how to play.

     

    I can't speak to the maturity of WoW players, but as for whether "WOW iz fild wid a buntch ov 10 yer oleds", perhaps you can offer a study that shows WoW's player demographics differ significantly from other major MMOs out there?

     

    For the guy who asked earlier, I started playing WoW in 2007 when TBC was released and most of the top raiding guilds were still working on Kara.  I fail to see how my experience is relevant to the point that the talent system, accessory weapon slot, and class trainers were never the reason to be playing the game, whether today or nearly six years ago as you seem to want to imply.

    The making it easier for ANYONE OF ANY AGE to play is what we are talking about. The only challenge comes at level 90 when you do a Herioc raid or whatever the nifty neat level 90 hard thing is. Can you list out the challenge prior to that?? Because everyone reading this would LOVE to know what the actual challenge in WoW is. I dont see it. But I am a bitter 40 year old ,who has spent 2012 being promised games that suck.

    I was in a raiding guild. I started on day one. Wow then and wow now are 2 totally different cups of tea. Which one are you sipping on?

  • moguy2moguy2 Member Posts: 337
    Originally posted by Chrisbox
    No alternate weapon slots is fine, they made it so that you know what you have to use and dont need anything extra.  For example hunters only use Bows no melee now...Thats not a bad thing at all Im fine without having to worry about my stat stick. 

    You are so right. Except for the fact that now you have 1 to 2 less things to worry about. And for classes that use those 1-2 less things THEY dont have to re work their positioning or their abilities associated with them.  Wands - bows - guns- throwing stuff. Dont worry- you just use the ability and bam it works. The 8 year old hunter can still shoot you now with his lil bow and not get rolled cause he has no idea how to melee / evade. But then again - the way it was was an " extra " thing you had to adapt to. An extra thing you had to use your brain for.

  • korent1991korent1991 Member UncommonPosts: 1,364

    The game has changed beyond recognition for anyone who played and loved vanilla or TBC (which was good before the "make BT easier" patch).

    The game has been dumbed down and it offers no challange anymore...Heroics this days are nothing compared to the first heroics. Those were heroics which gave a challange for a while. Nowadays you can PUG heroic raids for god sake.

    "Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life."
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  • ErowErow Member Posts: 14
    Originally posted by korent1991

    The game has changed beyond recognition for anyone who played and loved vanilla or TBC (which was good before the "make BT easier" patch).

    The game has been dumbed down and it offers no challange anymore...Heroics this days are nothing compared to the first heroics. Those were heroics which gave a challange for a while. Nowadays you can PUG heroic raids for god sake.

    I failed to go into minute detail about the loss of adventure and challenge that vanilla wow/tbc presented.  Suffice to say that for the "suits" making WoW into a game for 6 year olds was a smart move.  That's where the money is.  The rest of us just have to wait for a game to match what WoW used to be.

  • ZecktorinZecktorin Member Posts: 231
    Originally posted by AegisSaga
    Originally posted by Arcondo87
    Originally posted by Kuinn
    Originally posted by MMOExposed

     

    Dumbed down? World of Warcraft's meat is not the leveling, it's the endgame. Complaining that WoW is easy after just leveling is like saying that Big Mac combo you just bought has no calories just because you've only tasted the diet coke that came with it.

     

    Try doing heroic raids, that's where you'll find challenge: a bigger challenge than any other themepark MMO out there. If you don't like raiding, then WoW is not for you, basically.

    HA! PWNED!!!! +1 to this lol.

  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 11,843
    Originally posted by Erow

    Well I tried out the sample edition of World of Warcraft lately.  I am so glad I did that instead of re-subbing my old account.  I don't even recognize the game any more.

    No talent trees?  No alternate weapons slots?  WTF?  No reason to see trainers except to respec?

    This game just keeps getting more and more watered down with every expansion.

    What a shame.

    Goodby World of Warcraft, hello World of Weaksauce.

    Believe it or not WoWs new talent system is a step in the right direction for WoW. I didn't think it would be either, but I found myself trying all types of combinations between to of my classe's specs. 

     

    As fair as the skill trainer. This follows the path they set forth for streamlining. I personally like the little things like collecting souls, ammo, and poisions, and disagree with this direction. To their credit unlike in cata they added fluff to fill in the gaps left by what they took out.

  • The_KorriganThe_Korrigan Member RarePosts: 3,460
    Originally posted by Erow

    Well I tried out the sample edition of World of Warcraft lately.  I am so glad I did that instead of re-subbing my old account.  I don't even recognize the game any more.

    No talent trees?  No alternate weapons slots?  WTF?  No reason to see trainers except to respec?

    This game just keeps getting more and more watered down with every expansion.

    What a shame.

    Goodby World of Warcraft, hello World of Weaksauce.

    Same here. Not to mention they ruined my second favorite class, Feral Druid, and my DK is barely better.

    Everything is dumbed down. I'd rather resubcribe to SW:TOR, which has real talent trees, than to the dumbed down WoW now. And that's coming form someone who had at least one (most of the times two) active accounts for 7 and half years. Blizzard got my last money this last month.

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  • fivorothfivoroth Member UncommonPosts: 3,916

    They butchered the levelling experience with Cataclysm. I am an altoholic and I have all 10 classes but the last two I had to level up during Cata were just painful. They made it so faceroll and that you almost ding every 10 min lol especially if you get that stupid refer a friend offer where you get 300% more xp lol.

    On the flip side, back in vanilla if I wanted to play a new class, it toooooooooooooook ages to get that class to cap and gear it up so I never actually bothered to level up new characters once I got my lock and dr00d to 60.

    @poster above, you're exaggerating. That cave in Shadowglen was faceroll even in vanilla. You didn't have to "plan your attacks". You had like 2-3 attacks anyway at that level :D

    But then again the endgame of WoW hasn't changed much since Vanilla/TBC. There are still raids, some of which are very difficult, battlegrounds etc.

    If I had to play an MMO at the moment, it would still be WoW. There just doesn't seem to be anything. For some reason I love the PVP in WoW. Vanilla and TBC can't be matched by any MMO. They were just sooooooooooooooooooooooooo fdamn goood.

    Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.

  • JudgeUKJudgeUK Member RarePosts: 1,696
    Originally posted by Erow

    Well I tried out the sample edition of World of Warcraft lately.  I am so glad I did that instead of re-subbing my old account.  I don't even recognize the game any more.

    No talent trees?  No alternate weapons slots?  WTF?  No reason to see trainers except to respec?

    This game just keeps getting more and more watered down with every expansion.

    What a shame.

    Goodby World of Warcraft, hello World of Weaksauce.

    Yes, let's have another post from someone who's found the game doesn't suit them. If you don't like a game, just move and look for something else......quietly.

  • KeyloggerKeylogger Member Posts: 250

    I was of the mind that the MoP talent rape was a horrid idea, (as Cataclysm's most definitely was) but after actually trying it out extensively it's fairly decent, to be honest. (Priest, DK, Warrior, Warlock, Hunter - I didn't touch my rogue, druid, shaman at all yet and account is expired/cancelled.)

    MoP itself is reasonably well done, if you can stomach the heavy Asian themes and extremely childish nonsense.

    But it lacks any real coherent storyline, reeks of F2P Asian MMO - and at the end of the day it's the same as WOTLK's ToC patch->Cataclysm.

    Level as fast as possible.
    Grind gear.
    Use previous gear to grind more gear.
    Use that gear to grind more gear.
    Rinse repeat.


    TLDR:

    It lacks anything resembling a soul, even one so small as what mid-WOTLK or Cataclysm had.

  • NadiaNadia Member UncommonPosts: 11,798
    Originally posted by delete5230

    Does anyone remember at what level you get you your mount in Vanilla WoW ?...I think level 40 but that seems a little long.

    mounts have been available at lvl 20 since Lich King patch 3.2  (Aug 2009)

    http://www.wowwiki.com/Patch_3.2.0

     

    EQ2 fan sites

  • JaedorJaedor Member UncommonPosts: 1,173

    Originally posted by Nadia
    Originally posted by delete5230 Does anyone remember at what level you get you your mount in Vanilla WoW ?...I think level 40 but that seems a little long.
    mounts have been available at lvl 20 since Lich King patch 3.2  (Aug 2009)

    http://www.wowwiki.com/Patch_3.2.0

     

    It was level 40 and cost about 90g, which was incredibly difficult to obtain unless you spent a lot of time on the AH or got lucky on a world drop.

  • azrael466azrael466 Member Posts: 365
    Originally posted by AegisSaga
    Originally posted by Arcondo87
    Originally posted by Kuinn
    Originally posted by MMOExposed
    so first people complain that people stay in cities all the time, but when Blizzard gives you a reason not to go to cities, you also complain? interesting.

     

    Yes, people used to stand around cities all day long because the trainers are there. Now that the need of visiting trainers is gone and they are all still standing there, it must be because they are not yet aware of the change. Yes, this must be it.

    NOW ppl stand arround in cities all day cuz they dont ever have to leave! With LFG and raidfinder now. Why do you even have to leave? just stay in SW/Org and keep bashing the LFG and LFR till your 90. This game is sooo dummed down its not even funny any more...cant believe how lazy the world has become over the past 6 years...what happen to exploration and traveling.

    Maybe the 2012 end of the world is what this world needs to start a new and kill off all these lazy ass generation....

     

    Dumbed down? World of Warcraft's meat is not the leveling, it's the endgame. Complaining that WoW is easy after just leveling is like saying that Big Mac combo you just bought has no calories just because you've only tasted the diet coke that came with it.

     

    Try doing heroic raids, that's where you'll find challenge: a bigger challenge than any other themepark MMO out there. If you don't like raiding, then WoW is not for you, basically.

    I fully admit, I'm no were CLOSE to being 'good' at WoW, I'd say I'm average or slightly above. My guild is still having trouble with a few NORMAL bosses. Yea, leveling is easy...But so what? That's like playing a game on super easy baby mode then bitching its too easy, when on normal or hard you get facestomped..

    Playing
    Nothing
    waiting for
    The secret world
    Played
    WoW, DCU online, star wars: the old republic, city of heroes, city of villains, everquest, plenty more I'm probably forgetting or aren't worth noting.

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