"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
I'll just throw in my 2 copper on the sub numbers and server issues, yes Rift has less servers, yes Rift has less players then the 'big IP' games - does it matter? No.
Trion have been VERY smart in building the game, not just with the engine, design, gameplay or marketing but the whole business in general. Rift may have around 150-200K players but as far as the MMO itself is thats perfectly fine as the game is profitable, in fact it reached that a while back, plus you have to remember that Rift isn't the only game they have End of Nations is due out soon and that Sifi TV show/MMO is still in the works, if Trion didn't have the money to run Rift then they wouldn't have the money to invest in other games even before Rift was barely out.
The fact of the matter is that Trion are good devs, 'preimum services' like character transfers are free, the servers may have merged but hold more players and the level of content updates have outdone some game's expantions. Despite it's flaws such as low release content, and open/conquest pvp a joke, Rift may not have held my attention all the time but at least it's given me a much stronger reason to resub to it.
The question on if the game should go B2P/F2P the answer is also no, there isn't any need too. The main reason lately that games that have been subcription based turning to F2P isn't becuase the market is heading to a 'sub-free' era it's more because those games have been lacking in profits (and/or poor in general). SWTOR has been mentioned a lot in this topic, so has WoW, the main reason SWTOR is heading F2P hybrid is that it hasn't 'made money' in fact I'm still unsure it made any real profit back, $200+ million was put into that game and look at it, it's engine isn't even in house, how could they have spent THAT much on it? Marketing mostly. If you really look at all those that have 'turned' why few weren't big buget known IP games it isn't the case of 'sub numbers', it's the case of investment and profit, the 'suits' couldn't get their money back fast enough over the publisher's 'grand ideas' and sales/sub projections.
That is why there is no questioning the reason why WoW isn't moving to full F2P any time soon it's turning a profit, same with Rift. Rift may not be 'totally orginal' or a 'AAA' IP/game, but it ticks boxes for people and the dev team actually thinks about the game long term over short term profits.
It's the dark horse of the market and doesn't mind being second (or forth) fiddle, and many like it that way.
I'll just throw in my 2 copper on the sub numbers and server issues, yes Rift has less servers, yes Rift has less players then the 'big IP' games - does it matter? No.
Trion have been VERY smart in building the game, not just with the engine, design, gameplay or marketing but the whole business in general. Rift may have around 150-200K players but as far as the MMO itself is thats perfectly fine as the game is profitable, in fact it reached that a while back, plus you have to remember that Rift isn't the only game they have End of Nations is due out soon and that Sifi TV show/MMO is still in the works, if Trion didn't have the money to run Rift then they wouldn't have the money to invest in other games even before Rift was barely out.
The fact of the matter is that Trion are good devs, 'preimum services' like character transfers are free, the servers may have merged but hold more players and the level of content updates have outdone some game's expantions. Despite it's flaws such as low release content, and open/conquest pvp a joke, Rift may not have held my attention all the time but at least it's given me a much stronger reason to resub to it.
The question on if the game should go B2P/F2P the answer is also no, there isn't any need too. The main reason lately that games that have been subcription based turning to F2P isn't becuase the market is heading to a 'sub-free' era it's more because those games have been lacking in profits (and/or poor in general). SWTOR has been mentioned a lot in this topic, so has WoW, the main reason SWTOR is heading F2P hybrid is that it hasn't 'made money' in fact I'm still unsure it made any real profit back, $200+ million was put into that game and look at it, it's engine isn't even in house, how could they have spent THAT much on it? Marketing mostly. If you really look at all those that have 'turned' why few weren't big buget known IP games it isn't the case of 'sub numbers', it's the case of investment and profit, the 'suits' couldn't get their money back fast enough over the publisher's 'grand ideas' and sales/sub projections.
That is why there is no questioning the reason why WoW isn't moving to full F2P any time soon it's turning a profit, same with Rift. Rift may not be 'totally orginal' or a 'AAA' IP/game, but it ticks boxes for people and the dev team actually thinks about the game long term over short term profits.
It's the dark horse of the market and doesn't mind being second (or forth) fiddle, and many like it that way.
I'll just throw in my 2 copper on the sub numbers and server issues, yes Rift has less servers, yes Rift has less players then the 'big IP' games - does it matter? No.
Trion have been VERY smart in building the game, not just with the engine, design, gameplay or marketing but the whole business in general. Rift may have around 150-200K players but as far as the MMO itself is thats perfectly fine as the game is profitable, in fact it reached that a while back, plus you have to remember that Rift isn't the only game they have End of Nations is due out soon and that Sifi TV show/MMO is still in the works, if Trion didn't have the money to run Rift then they wouldn't have the money to invest in other games even before Rift was barely out.
The fact of the matter is that Trion are good devs, 'preimum services' like character transfers are free, the servers may have merged but hold more players and the level of content updates have outdone some game's expantions. Despite it's flaws such as low release content, and open/conquest pvp a joke, Rift may not have held my attention all the time but at least it's given me a much stronger reason to resub to it.
The question on if the game should go B2P/F2P the answer is also no, there isn't any need too. The main reason lately that games that have been subcription based turning to F2P isn't becuase the market is heading to a 'sub-free' era it's more because those games have been lacking in profits (and/or poor in general). SWTOR has been mentioned a lot in this topic, so has WoW, the main reason SWTOR is heading F2P hybrid is that it hasn't 'made money' in fact I'm still unsure it made any real profit back, $200+ million was put into that game and look at it, it's engine isn't even in house, how could they have spent THAT much on it? Marketing mostly. If you really look at all those that have 'turned' why few weren't big buget known IP games it isn't the case of 'sub numbers', it's the case of investment and profit, the 'suits' couldn't get their money back fast enough over the publisher's 'grand ideas' and sales/sub projections.
That is why there is no questioning the reason why WoW isn't moving to full F2P any time soon it's turning a profit, same with Rift. Rift may not be 'totally orginal' or a 'AAA' IP/game, but it ticks boxes for people and the dev team actually thinks about the game long term over short term profits.
It's the dark horse of the market and doesn't mind being second (or forth) fiddle, and many like it that way.
This is why I think B2P has the potential to generate more revenue. It lowers the barrier to entry and more importantly long term retention. People don't have to play constantly, but being able to pick it up at any time, possibly spend a bit in the cash shop, and buy the xpac expands revenue potential dramatically.
In my opinion the future for content churn games like this are with a B2P or F2P model. Those trying to sell content churn on a monthly fee are taking the harder, likely less profitible road. If a game can offer compelling and engaging systems that keep players busy then I think those will have an easier time offering the "join our club" subscription model. RIFT is cool and a lot of fun, but it just doesn't offer the latter even with its housing expansion.
From the looks of it B2P generate less revenue than a subscription game, by far. At least that's what the financial results from NCsoft clearly demonstrate. A subscription game that is released only in Korea (Blade & Soul) is only lagging by 20% behind a B2P game that has launched worldwide (GW2). The next quarter results will be more indicative on the impact of the cash shop in GW2, but the big money in the B2P model are generated at the purchase, which has already happened and is quite frankly, underwhelming. On the other hand, the subscription based game will continue to generate steady income for the duration of its lifespan.
I have read many threads now about this game being better than that game, when this game came out it was like etc... BUT I think many are missing something!
When WOW was released it was like the first cummuter jet, there was nothing like it around and it blew us away with it's innovative gameplay and huge open world. Honest gamers (who are old enough to remember wow legacy ) will admit how awe struck and excited we all were.
NOW the mmo environment is way different, the proverbial skies are saturated with jets, mmos are everywhere and the competition for development of new and better mmos doesn't seem to be slowing. It is becoming a huge industry as the internet constantly improves and our lives are becoming more and more cyber based.
With all that being said I think RIFT is an excellent mmo that is striving to be and remain current. WOW will always have a dedicated fan base until they flick the off switch for the last time. RIFT (if the devs keep doing what they are doing, in my opinion) will also have a dedicated fan base till it's eventual end.
Blizzard is a behemoth of a company compared to Trion (at the moment) so I feel population comparisons are pointless and not a good sign of level of success equaly pointless is comparisons of game tech and requirements as WOW was made in a different era to RIFT. The only comparisons that are worthy of note are GAMEPLAY and CONTENT as these are the game, so to speak.
Now my rant is over "Is RIFT getting more attention?" I must ask More than what? More than WOW? More than GW2? heck, More than EQ2???? WHO CARES?!! It really isn't important. Try RIFT like it? play it! don't like it? don't play it! I personally love RIFT as do many many others, I also love GW2 and although I don't play WOW anymore I love that to and I don't begrudge any who do still play it.
For anyone who is worried about the future of RIFT, DON'T! It will be around for a long time, it may grow it may not but it will always at its core be RIFT!
I guess the Storm Legion addon will end up the same way the initial game did right after release.
Starting at 39,99, Trion soon had discounts literally every weekend, the game went for less then 10Eur allover the internet and some webshops have given away their keys for free (i still have some). I eventually bought the CE for 6Eur on steam.
So no way i'm going to buy the addon for 25Eur (standard edition), as it might drop to 5Eur again after 4 weeks.
I kind of feel this way. I played the beta and it's really pretty good PVE-wise. PVP is still meh, even though the new trees are tons of fun. Gamersgate is already running 24.99 USD sale. I like it a lot, but 24.99 + 15 for the month is a lot if it's going to be $10 in a month w/a month free or something.
The question on if the game should go B2P/F2P the answer is also no, there isn't any need too.
That is why there is no questioning the reason why WoW isn't moving to full F2P any time soon it's turning a profit, same with Rift.
How do you know this? You have some insider information we don't have? Why was that last mount more expansive than the others? Why is Deep's Depot added into the game?
Rift may not be 'totally orginal' or a 'AAA' IP/game, but it ticks boxes for people and the dev team actually thinks about the game long term over short term profits.
Like rushing conquest out the door because of GW2? Why not wait and make it a unique, open world zone with Storm Legion? No, they had to get 3 team PvP out the door because of what other games were doing.
It's the dark horse of the market and doesn't mind being second (or forth) fiddle, and many like it that way.
No one would mind being second fiddle to WoW. They are trying to get as many subs as they can. A game like EvE doesnt care so much, they have their niche audience and dont try to pander to everyone. EQ1 gave up the PvP market because it allowed them to better focus on PvE. Rift is still trying to please everyone, all types of play. I think trion is smart enough to know it will never beat WoW, but they sure dont seem happy with their place in the market.
The question on if the game should go B2P/F2P the answer is also no, there isn't any need too.
That is why there is no questioning the reason why WoW isn't moving to full F2P any time soon it's turning a profit, same with Rift.
How do you know this? You have some insider information we don't have? Why was that last mount more expansive than the others? Why is Deep's Depot added into the game?
Rift may not be 'totally orginal' or a 'AAA' IP/game, but it ticks boxes for people and the dev team actually thinks about the game long term over short term profits.
Like rushing conquest out the door because of GW2? Why not wait and make it a unique, open world zone with Storm Legion? No, they had to get 3 team PvP out the door because of what other games were doing.
It's the dark horse of the market and doesn't mind being second (or forth) fiddle, and many like it that way.
No one would mind being second fiddle to WoW. They are trying to get as many subs as they can. A game like EvE doesnt care so much, they have their niche audience and dont try to pander to everyone. EQ1 gave up the PvP market because it allowed them to better focus on PvE. Rift is still trying to please everyone, all types of play. I think trion is smart enough to know it will never beat WoW, but they sure dont seem happy with their place in the market.
I'll just comment on the Deep's Deport/Mount being 'signs of F2P'.
Just because you can buy game time, mounts, and preimum features from within the game instead of going through the actual account pages doesn't automatically scream 'IT'S A F2P CASH SHOP!', it's a convenience, much like the character transfer option isn't on the account pages but on the actual character menu. Trion has seen the logic of why every account feature 'has to be' on a webpage, why can't it be in game? In fact with the coin lock feature in Rift I think it's actually MORE sercure to have those account options in game then on a web page that can be accessed by anyone, anywhere, with in these days any device. I wouldn't be too shocked if Trion scaled back the account pages to just the very basic on the web in a few months.
As for the latest Mount Trion did actually give a reason for the price difference I can't remember off the top of my head why but it was ok, but it's currently £9.99, which is still good value if you compare that to WoW's 'Sparkle Pony', which if you remember sold millions in it's first day. Is Trion double dipping on it's playerbase? No. Does it mean core content will be left out of the core game to be placed as 'DLC'? Unlikely.
The mounts and basic 'upgrades' to the game don't actually give any advantage over another player (yes having the turtle mont from level 5 helps) but it's still optional fluff, in fact the only reason the other two (besides the collectors edtion upgrade from the core game) are there as optional upgrades was because both were featured as release incentives in other areas, they were never intended to be anything else, it's only because the playerbase asked for them to be accessable by all they ended up as upgrades.
Will Trion release more mounts/fluff to buy? I don't know, however there is one sure thing we will see more Vet Rewards. Trion have taken a very good idea from games like City of Heroes with the Vet Rewards as it's rewarding players for just playing the game. The clever thing is unlike most Vet Rewards they require you to actually unlock them over time or rewarded after the fact, Trion give unlock them as soon as you pay for the length of gametime. Is this 'evil' or exploiting the playerbase? Nope, due to the fact it's the player's choice to pay for up to 36 months of gametime to unlock all those rewards 'now'. It's a very smart move by Trion as the player gets their 'fluff' and Trion gets a player for a long time so even if said player leaves the game 'until the next content update' they can still come back no pressure as they already have the subcription open to do so and Trion hasn't really dragged their feet on updates TBH..
How do the Vet Rewards say Rift isn't heading into F2P any time soon? Basically because it's not just a handful of players doing it quite a lot actually pay ahead in gametime, take the Storm Chaser offer, people have already paid up to Aug 2013 now at least, Trion possibily have two thirds of the money to keep the servers running next year just from Rift alone, and they still have two other games.
It would be a bad business move to drop into the F2P market when they don't need too, it's to crowded, the subcription market has a lot less to compete with and as long as nothing massivily wrong happens (like Storm Leagon or the other games flopping) Rift is fine as a subcription model.
I'll just comment on the Deep's Deport/Mount being 'signs of F2P'.
No, they arent signs necessarily of F2P, but of signs that maybe Rift isnt turning a profit on subs alone
Just because you can buy game time, mounts, and preimum features from within the game instead of going through the actual account pages doesn't automatically scream 'IT'S A F2P CASH SHOP!', it's a convenience, much like the character transfer option isn't on the account pages but on the actual character menu. Trion has seen the logic of why every account feature 'has to be' on a webpage, why can't it be in game? In fact with the coin lock feature in Rift I think it's actually MORE sercure to have those account options in game then on a web page that can be accessed by anyone, anywhere, with in these days any device. I wouldn't be too shocked if Trion scaled back the account pages to just the very basic on the web in a few months.
Or maybe they have seen that EQ2 has it in game and thought 'wow, since its much easier to get a name change without going to the website, i bet a lot more people do it! Convenience isnt to benefit the customer here, its to benefit Trion. And then there is the name of the thing. Deep's Depot. Thats a terrible name for something thats only account changes. Sure sounds to me like they are at least contemplating an item shop.
And let me repeat what I have said before: there is NOTHING wrong with sub + cash shop, if and only if you need the reenue to continue the same pace of development.
As for the latest Mount Trion did actually give a reason for the price difference I can't remember off the top of my head why but it was ok, but it's currently £9.99, which is still good value if you compare that to WoW's 'Sparkle Pony', which if you remember sold millions in it's first day. Is Trion double dipping on it's playerbase? No. Does it mean core content will be left out of the core game to be placed as 'DLC'? Unlikely.
So because the mount is cheaper than WoW's mount its not double dipping? Come on. And see my sentence above. I have no issue with it, but call it what it is. People make so many excuses for this company its ridiculous.
The mounts and basic 'upgrades' to the game don't actually give any advantage over another player (yes having the turtle mont from level 5 helps) but it's still optional fluff, in fact the only reason the other two (besides the collectors edtion upgrade from the core game) are there as optional upgrades was because both were featured as release incentives in other areas, they were never intended to be anything else, it's only because the playerbase asked for them to be accessable by all they ended up as upgrades.
Someobody has fallen for the spin. The first upgrade was in game day 1, no one had to ask for it. In fact you are bombarded with an ad for it every time you log in. You want to know the real way to do it? Everytime you release another of these collectors editions, give everyone who already has the collectors edition the same perks of the new one. You say they arent double dipping? tell that people with multiple collector's edition upgrades.
Will Trion release more mounts/fluff to buy? I don't know, however there is one sure thing we will see more Vet Rewards. Trion have taken a very good idea from games like City of Heroes with the Vet Rewards as it's rewarding players for just playing the game. The clever thing is unlike most Vet Rewards they require you to actually unlock them over time or rewarded after the fact, Trion give unlock them as soon as you pay for the length of gametime. Is this 'evil' or exploiting the playerbase? Nope, due to the fact it's the player's choice to pay for up to 36 months of gametime to unlock all those rewards 'now'. It's a very smart move by Trion as the player gets their 'fluff' and Trion gets a player for a long time so even if said player leaves the game 'until the next content update' they can still come back no pressure as they already have the subcription open to do so and Trion hasn't really dragged their feet on updates TBH..
Trion did nothing here that EQ2 isnt alreay doing, except that EQ2 keeps it to a year ahead of the pace. Its an especially smart move in a game where people dont stick around that long on average.
How do the Vet Rewards say Rift isn't heading into F2P any time soon? Basically because it's not just a handful of players doing it quite a lot actually pay ahead in gametime, take the Storm Chaser offer, people have already paid up to Aug 2013 now at least, Trion possibily have two thirds of the money to keep the servers running next year just from Rift alone, and they still have two other games.
They have more money now, but less incremental revenue going forward. And the servers are not that expensive relative to the big pictures. The salaries and benefits are. We have no clue how much of the storm chaser money went to the salaries and servers and how much went to advertising (for Rift and Defiance) as well as paying back investors.
It would be a bad business move to drop into the F2P market when they don't need too, it's to crowded, the subcription market has a lot less to compete with and as long as nothing massivily wrong happens (like Storm Leagon or the other games flopping) Rift is fine as a subcription model.
And again, there is absolutely nothing to indicate that Riift is 'fine'. Maybe after Storm legon they will be, but if SL isnt a hge success don't be shocked to see fluff start showing up in the cash shop. i dont think Trion would take the freemium route, but you never know.
Rift was easily one of the worst MMORPG of the decade with no new ideas whatsoever. The world was generic, the leveling was incredibly linear, the world was small, the combat was average, customization was based on talent trees, everything was just so... average and ordinary.
Originally posted by Thillian Rift was easily one of the worst MMORPG of the decade with no new ideas whatsoever. The world was generic, the leveling was incredibly linear, the world was small, the combat was average, customization was based on talent trees, everything was just so... average and ordinary.
Originally posted by Thillian Rift was easily one of the worst MMORPG of the decade with no new ideas whatsoever. The world was generic, the leveling was incredibly linear, the world was small, the combat was average, customization was based on talent trees, everything was just so... average and ordinary.
There are a lot worse MMOs. Play any of the F2P KRPGs.
Customization in every MMO I can think of besides maybe GW and TSW is based on a similar TT (though I'm sure there are a few other ways). The TT in RIFT actually allows for a lot of flexibility in character builds and the ability to play multiple roles per character class.
RIFT is pre-Cata WoW, but better (PVP aside....).
WoW was EQ, but better.
This isn't a tremendously innovative genre. In hindsight, the combat seems a bit dated after TERA, DCUO, Vindictus and RaiderZ, but of those only DCUO has decent lore and even then it's basically a console "MMO lite" game
I really did enjoy Rift playing the beta and recently playing Rift Lite.
Trion could potentially have each expansion pack deal with a particular elemental rift. That's 6 potential expansion packs that increase world size, drastically increase endgame content, and various other things.
However, I think for Rift to be a lasting contender and garner a lot of attention/subcribers there needs to be a relatively equal distribution of content among levels.
In my opinion, games like WoW and WAR (in the success that it did have) were that there were multiple levelling paths to take. So as long as Rift implements multiple levelling paths that should alleviate some problems.
Only problem I can see is the inevitable flood of complaints about having to pay for expansion packs. But, as long as it's worth the money that shouldn't be a problem.
WAR's a complete failure because they never updated content.
RIFT has IA's and instanced PVP. Levelling an alt is easy. There are actually people complaining IA makes levelling too easy. WAR was also a PVP game, RIFT is solidly in the PVE camp.
after playing this game pretty much daily from 1.11 onward I can say that i already left the game again and that was putting in a lot of time in beta. All the glaring issues in rift are still there and the devs continue just to be totally out of touch with majority of the people coming and going. With that being said the housing is top notch if you like to build with minecraft , but ....you can play minecraft survival for that and get the effect 150% better. The new soul system was all about nerfing and continues to get nerfed across the board but clerics. Every new little hot fix brings with it soul nerfs for warriors to the point i havent touched mine in two weeks now. The carnage quests just suck and are beyond boring crap compared even to the old quest hubs and unless you are in love with the design of ember isle you will find the new zones more of the same EI progression but with added in kill 20 of this 15 of that along the way. While they made strides to making the world much larger , the boring quest system and lackluster soul system just sent me away , this time in way less time than before when i played for about 5 months straight.
I wish rift players the best of luck though because with the latest server merges I see this going the way of warhammer online very soon. People can argue they have all this new great technology all they want , but anyone who actually plays this and isnt some spectator or low level noob can tell you that people always leave , and just come back in high hopes the game patches have made the game better . This expansion just isnt going to do a thing for rift except milk the player base a little longer , but anyone disliking rift before will dislike it just as bad with Storm Legion.
after playing this game pretty much daily from 1.11 onward I can say that i already left the game again and that was putting in a lot of time in beta. All the glaring issues in rift are still there and the devs continue just to be totally out of touch with majority of the people coming and going. With that being said the housing is top notch if you like to build with minecraft , but ....you can play minecraft survival for that and get the effect 150% better. The new soul system was all about nerfing and continues to get nerfed across the board but clerics. Every new little hot fix brings with it soul nerfs for warriors to the point i havent touched mine in two weeks now. The carnage quests just suck and are beyond boring crap compared even to the old quest hubs and unless you are in love with the design of ember isle you will find the new zones more of the same EI progression but with added in kill 20 of this 15 of that along the way. While they made strides to making the world much larger , the boring quest system and lackluster soul system just sent me away , this time in way less time than before when i played for about 5 months straight.
I wish rift players the best of luck though because with the latest server merges I see this going the way of warhammer online very soon. People can argue they have all this new great technology all they want , but anyone who actually plays this and isnt some spectator or low level noob can tell you that people always leave , and just come back in high hopes the game patches have made the game better . This expansion just isnt going to do a thing for rift except milk the player base a little longer , but anyone disliking rift before will dislike it just as bad with Storm Legion.
Cleric healers got hit pretty hard with AOE heal nerfs (even if HOTs got buffs). Most of my builds weren't viable. They changed all the classes, a lot. If anything, the mage harbinger soul is probably the most OP one now. I'm still on the fence about purchase because PVP class balance is still a disaster and the devs don't care about it.
Class nerfs/buffs happen. If you play MMOs you know that. One patch X is god tier and Y is trash, 2 patches later Y is god tier. 3 patches later, the classes border on unrecognizable. In 1.9 wars were god tier.
Otherwise, I pretty much agree. If you liked RIFT before you still will, if you didn't this won't change your mind.
Can somebody tell me or share with me there thoughts as to Rift as i kind of think it could be a rising star in the future....well i cant see how it couldnt be?
Over & Out
If there is a program that is better than this product,then there is no future.
Theres allready 10000 Coca Colas and Pepsis on the MMO Pop market and only one of them can be "The One" rest are just Dr.Peppers.
So its better for you Mr.Rift that you try to find your own taste like Russian Vodka,its quite nice actually,and theres some competition also,maybe Dr.Vodka?
Housing is cool addition ok i admit that,but casual crowd hates virtual world and RPG crowd loves housing,how to please them both ? if thats possible then WoW would have its housing in patch 1.001.
after playing this game pretty much daily from 1.11 onward I can say that i already left the game again and that was putting in a lot of time in beta. All the glaring issues in rift are still there and the devs continue just to be totally out of touch with majority of the people coming and going. With that being said the housing is top notch if you like to build with minecraft , but ....you can play minecraft survival for that and get the effect 150% better. The new soul system was all about nerfing and continues to get nerfed across the board but clerics. Every new little hot fix brings with it soul nerfs for warriors to the point i havent touched mine in two weeks now. The carnage quests just suck and are beyond boring crap compared even to the old quest hubs and unless you are in love with the design of ember isle you will find the new zones more of the same EI progression but with added in kill 20 of this 15 of that along the way. While they made strides to making the world much larger , the boring quest system and lackluster soul system just sent me away , this time in way less time than before when i played for about 5 months straight.
I wish rift players the best of luck though because with the latest server merges I see this going the way of warhammer online very soon. People can argue they have all this new great technology all they want , but anyone who actually plays this and isnt some spectator or low level noob can tell you that people always leave , and just come back in high hopes the game patches have made the game better . This expansion just isnt going to do a thing for rift except milk the player base a little longer , but anyone disliking rift before will dislike it just as bad with Storm Legion.
Cleric healers got hit pretty hard with AOE heal nerfs (even if HOTs got buffs). Most of my builds weren't viable. They changed all the classes, a lot. If anything, the mage harbinger soul is probably the most OP one now. I'm still on the fence about purchase because PVP class balance is still a disaster and the devs don't care about it.
Class nerfs/buffs happen. If you play MMOs you know that. One patch X is god tier and Y is trash, 2 patches later Y is god tier. 3 patches later, the classes border on unrecognizable. In 1.9 wars were god tier.
Otherwise, I pretty much agree. If you liked RIFT before you still will, if you didn't this won't change your mind.
yeah i forgot about the aoe healing nerfs , i was speaking on the justicar soul sorry i should of been clearer. Nerfs happen you are right in every game as ive played them for years and the only other game i can think of right now that does the amount of nerfing is wow . The latest news is conquest is being removed also until they have enough 60s to do it at end game and they still have not designed a new map for it yet or even decided on its location . Its in the dev posts on their forums just cant find the old link .
See myself im not the type of guy to run around just spewing off nonsense about wow clone like some of the guys on here do who never even tried it. My beef with rift is the devs suck period (the class ones). Storm Legion doesnt offer nothing new at all to rift but more grinding from what i seen and the carnage quests are a sideshow attempt at more grinding for adventurer tokens. If the combat was fast paced like TSW or GW2 or Tera i could see the carnage quests being a lot of fun but the mobs have tons of health and take forever just to kill so its grinding nothing more. I really wish I could stick it out with Rift but no matter how hard i try every patch note i read since 1.11 has just pissed me off and after playing the beta for the 4 days running around on my warrior and rogue , i just hate it worse than the wow MOP expansion for grinding.
This baffles me. Did people just not play EQ? The two games are extremely dissimilar other than the genre similarities.
Both great games with strong virtual worlds, but the game play, and especially core philosophy, is very different.
WoW was very different when it came out, than the way the game is now.
As for Trion, they are one of the greatest video game companies right now. Whether MMO players like or hate Rift, everyone should be thankful that company is on the scene. They push other developers in terms of amount and quality of content. That's a good thing. Just like ArenaNet is great for the industry as well.
This baffles me. Did people just not play EQ? The two games are extremely dissimilar other than the genre similarities.
Both great games with strong virtual worlds, but the game play, and especially core philosophy, is very different.
WoW was very different when it came out, than the way the game is now.
As for Trion, they are one of the greatest video game companies right now. Whether MMO players like or hate Rift, everyone should be thankful that company is on the scene. They push other developers in terms of amount and quality of content. That's a good thing. Just like ArenaNet is great for the industry as well.
see i do not agree at all with this statement . Trion is doing absolutely nothing at all new to the genre and they built the tools directly into the engine before the game was released to make content easy to push out. Also its not like they designed their own game engine , its game byro same as warhammer used. Also ANet is doing nothing at all good for the genre for content updates. They are already way behind on things promised and the world vs world is a total trainwreck. This is an opinion of course but ive never really been in love with Trion and ANet lost my respect with how badly they handle world vs world but market it like its better than DAOC RvR. If anything Trion needs to learn to respect its playerbase and address glaring issues with stuff like pvp and class balance, maybe then people wouldnt just play the content fast and then unsub until a new patch comes out.
This baffles me. Did people just not play EQ? The two games are extremely dissimilar other than the genre similarities.
Both great games with strong virtual worlds, but the game play, and especially core philosophy, is very different.
WoW was very different when it came out, than the way the game is now.
As for Trion, they are one of the greatest video game companies right now. Whether MMO players like or hate Rift, everyone should be thankful that company is on the scene. They push other developers in terms of amount and quality of content. That's a good thing. Just like ArenaNet is great for the industry as well.
WoW was different yes, but still not like EQ. i think WoW actually had more in common with DAoC than EQ.
I do agree that Trion is good for the industry. However, I think the Rift team has made some pretty poor decisions though with the direction (or lack thereof) they have taken the game in and they are probably about the 4th or 5th company I would expect to make the next EQ-level success. But if they can get companies to push for faster updates Im all for it-although i think the better design is to not need constant updates, more content is always welcome.
Originally posted by CaerusX I feel like Trion needs to embrace f2p with Rift.
I disagree, I no longer play Rift, but they seem to be producing content at a nice pace, and people that play it like it....No need to chase the uncertainty of f2p....What they are doing is working, it isn't WoW number wise, but it is working and making a profit.
I prefer subscriptions anyway, tired of all this I want free games, either you make it to where you are gouging 5-25% of the population, while the other 75% muddle around for free, or everyone pays a reasonible amount and it is not a gouge to anyone, and everyone is on the same level....Some games pull off f2p, without it being p2w, but a lot don't. Online gaming is about the cheapest form of entertainment you can enjoy, considering you most likely have internet anyways.
I was disappointed with Rift, but I think Trion is a good company, that if Rift is your thing, it would be a nice mmo to play and occupy your gaming time.
This baffles me. Did people just not play EQ? The two games are extremely dissimilar other than the genre similarities.
Both great games with strong virtual worlds, but the game play, and especially core philosophy, is very different.
WoW was very different when it came out, than the way the game is now.
As for Trion, they are one of the greatest video game companies right now. Whether MMO players like or hate Rift, everyone should be thankful that company is on the scene. They push other developers in terms of amount and quality of content. That's a good thing. Just like ArenaNet is great for the industry as well.
see i do not agree at all with this statement . Trion is doing absolutely nothing at all new to the genre and they built the tools directly into the engine before the game was released to make content easy to push out. Also its not like they designed their own game engine , its game byro same as warhammer used. Also ANet is doing nothing at all good for the genre for content updates. They are already way behind on things promised and the world vs world is a total trainwreck. This is an opinion of course but ive never really been in love with Trion and ANet lost my respect with how badly they handle world vs world but market it like its better than DAOC RvR. If anything Trion needs to learn to respect its playerbase and address glaring issues with stuff like pvp and class balance, maybe then people wouldnt just play the content fast and then unsub until a new patch comes out.
I mostly agree with what you said, but I still like the game. They do a good job of constantly putting out new PVE content.
I'm ungodly disappointed in PVP (even though these new souls will breathe some much-needed new life into it), like just about anyone who actually likes PVP that plays RIFT, but honestly if you can accept it's a PVE game w/pvp tacked on, it's a pretty good game.
And yeah, I probably will (just like you said) play through the expansion and unsub until the next major patch. Mainly because they don't balance pvp, which would otherwise keep me playing. They don't listen to addon devs either. That infuriated me more. Watchdog was a real smack in the face. I'll never code another addon after that monstrosity. The game addon API is pretty much terrible, esp compared to WoW (whatever its faults, the game is coded beautifully on a technical level).
Comments
rift has less pvp then wow now basiclly.
... less class balance.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
I'll just throw in my 2 copper on the sub numbers and server issues, yes Rift has less servers, yes Rift has less players then the 'big IP' games - does it matter? No.
Trion have been VERY smart in building the game, not just with the engine, design, gameplay or marketing but the whole business in general. Rift may have around 150-200K players but as far as the MMO itself is thats perfectly fine as the game is profitable, in fact it reached that a while back, plus you have to remember that Rift isn't the only game they have End of Nations is due out soon and that Sifi TV show/MMO is still in the works, if Trion didn't have the money to run Rift then they wouldn't have the money to invest in other games even before Rift was barely out.
The fact of the matter is that Trion are good devs, 'preimum services' like character transfers are free, the servers may have merged but hold more players and the level of content updates have outdone some game's expantions. Despite it's flaws such as low release content, and open/conquest pvp a joke, Rift may not have held my attention all the time but at least it's given me a much stronger reason to resub to it.
The question on if the game should go B2P/F2P the answer is also no, there isn't any need too. The main reason lately that games that have been subcription based turning to F2P isn't becuase the market is heading to a 'sub-free' era it's more because those games have been lacking in profits (and/or poor in general). SWTOR has been mentioned a lot in this topic, so has WoW, the main reason SWTOR is heading F2P hybrid is that it hasn't 'made money' in fact I'm still unsure it made any real profit back, $200+ million was put into that game and look at it, it's engine isn't even in house, how could they have spent THAT much on it? Marketing mostly. If you really look at all those that have 'turned' why few weren't big buget known IP games it isn't the case of 'sub numbers', it's the case of investment and profit, the 'suits' couldn't get their money back fast enough over the publisher's 'grand ideas' and sales/sub projections.
That is why there is no questioning the reason why WoW isn't moving to full F2P any time soon it's turning a profit, same with Rift. Rift may not be 'totally orginal' or a 'AAA' IP/game, but it ticks boxes for people and the dev team actually thinks about the game long term over short term profits.
It's the dark horse of the market and doesn't mind being second (or forth) fiddle, and many like it that way.
Bring on the WARRRRGGHH!
^This +1
+2
From the looks of it B2P generate less revenue than a subscription game, by far. At least that's what the financial results from NCsoft clearly demonstrate. A subscription game that is released only in Korea (Blade & Soul) is only lagging by 20% behind a B2P game that has launched worldwide (GW2). The next quarter results will be more indicative on the impact of the cash shop in GW2, but the big money in the B2P model are generated at the purchase, which has already happened and is quite frankly, underwhelming. On the other hand, the subscription based game will continue to generate steady income for the duration of its lifespan.
GOSH!!!
I have read many threads now about this game being better than that game, when this game came out it was like etc... BUT I think many are missing something!
When WOW was released it was like the first cummuter jet, there was nothing like it around and it blew us away with it's innovative gameplay and huge open world. Honest gamers (who are old enough to remember wow legacy
) will admit how awe struck and excited we all were.
NOW the mmo environment is way different, the proverbial skies are saturated with jets, mmos are everywhere and the competition for development of new and better mmos doesn't seem to be slowing. It is becoming a huge industry as the internet constantly improves and our lives are becoming more and more cyber based.
With all that being said I think RIFT is an excellent mmo that is striving to be and remain current. WOW will always have a dedicated fan base until they flick the off switch for the last time. RIFT (if the devs keep doing what they are doing, in my opinion) will also have a dedicated fan base till it's eventual end.
Blizzard is a behemoth of a company compared to Trion (at the moment) so I feel population comparisons are pointless and not a good sign of level of success equaly pointless is comparisons of game tech and requirements as WOW was made in a different era to RIFT. The only comparisons that are worthy of note are GAMEPLAY and CONTENT as these are the game, so to speak.
Now my rant is over "Is RIFT getting more attention?" I must ask More than what? More than WOW? More than GW2? heck, More than EQ2???? WHO CARES?!! It really isn't important. Try RIFT like it? play it! don't like it? don't play it! I personally love RIFT as do many many others, I also love GW2 and although I don't play WOW anymore I love that to and I don't begrudge any who do still play it.
For anyone who is worried about the future of RIFT, DON'T! It will be around for a long time, it may grow it may not but it will always at its core be RIFT!
I kind of feel this way. I played the beta and it's really pretty good PVE-wise. PVP is still meh, even though the new trees are tons of fun. Gamersgate is already running 24.99 USD sale. I like it a lot, but 24.99 + 15 for the month is a lot if it's going to be $10 in a month w/a month free or something.
I'll just comment on the Deep's Deport/Mount being 'signs of F2P'.
Just because you can buy game time, mounts, and preimum features from within the game instead of going through the actual account pages doesn't automatically scream 'IT'S A F2P CASH SHOP!', it's a convenience, much like the character transfer option isn't on the account pages but on the actual character menu. Trion has seen the logic of why every account feature 'has to be' on a webpage, why can't it be in game? In fact with the coin lock feature in Rift I think it's actually MORE sercure to have those account options in game then on a web page that can be accessed by anyone, anywhere, with in these days any device. I wouldn't be too shocked if Trion scaled back the account pages to just the very basic on the web in a few months.
As for the latest Mount Trion did actually give a reason for the price difference I can't remember off the top of my head why but it was ok, but it's currently £9.99, which is still good value if you compare that to WoW's 'Sparkle Pony', which if you remember sold millions in it's first day. Is Trion double dipping on it's playerbase? No. Does it mean core content will be left out of the core game to be placed as 'DLC'? Unlikely.
The mounts and basic 'upgrades' to the game don't actually give any advantage over another player (yes having the turtle mont from level 5 helps) but it's still optional fluff, in fact the only reason the other two (besides the collectors edtion upgrade from the core game) are there as optional upgrades was because both were featured as release incentives in other areas, they were never intended to be anything else, it's only because the playerbase asked for them to be accessable by all they ended up as upgrades.
Will Trion release more mounts/fluff to buy? I don't know, however there is one sure thing we will see more Vet Rewards. Trion have taken a very good idea from games like City of Heroes with the Vet Rewards as it's rewarding players for just playing the game. The clever thing is unlike most Vet Rewards they require you to actually unlock them over time or rewarded after the fact, Trion give unlock them as soon as you pay for the length of gametime. Is this 'evil' or exploiting the playerbase? Nope, due to the fact it's the player's choice to pay for up to 36 months of gametime to unlock all those rewards 'now'. It's a very smart move by Trion as the player gets their 'fluff' and Trion gets a player for a long time so even if said player leaves the game 'until the next content update' they can still come back no pressure as they already have the subcription open to do so and Trion hasn't really dragged their feet on updates TBH..
How do the Vet Rewards say Rift isn't heading into F2P any time soon? Basically because it's not just a handful of players doing it quite a lot actually pay ahead in gametime, take the Storm Chaser offer, people have already paid up to Aug 2013 now at least, Trion possibily have two thirds of the money to keep the servers running next year just from Rift alone, and they still have two other games.
It would be a bad business move to drop into the F2P market when they don't need too, it's to crowded, the subcription market has a lot less to compete with and as long as nothing massivily wrong happens (like Storm Leagon or the other games flopping) Rift is fine as a subcription model.
Bring on the WARRRRGGHH!
REALITY CHECK
Tell us how you really feel.
There are a lot worse MMOs. Play any of the F2P KRPGs.
Customization in every MMO I can think of besides maybe GW and TSW is based on a similar TT (though I'm sure there are a few other ways). The TT in RIFT actually allows for a lot of flexibility in character builds and the ability to play multiple roles per character class.
RIFT is pre-Cata WoW, but better (PVP aside....).
WoW was EQ, but better.
This isn't a tremendously innovative genre. In hindsight, the combat seems a bit dated after TERA, DCUO, Vindictus and RaiderZ, but of those only DCUO has decent lore and even then it's basically a console "MMO lite" game
WAR's a complete failure because they never updated content.
RIFT has IA's and instanced PVP. Levelling an alt is easy. There are actually people complaining IA makes levelling too easy. WAR was also a PVP game, RIFT is solidly in the PVE camp.
after playing this game pretty much daily from 1.11 onward I can say that i already left the game again and that was putting in a lot of time in beta. All the glaring issues in rift are still there and the devs continue just to be totally out of touch with majority of the people coming and going. With that being said the housing is top notch if you like to build with minecraft , but ....you can play minecraft survival for that and get the effect 150% better. The new soul system was all about nerfing and continues to get nerfed across the board but clerics. Every new little hot fix brings with it soul nerfs for warriors to the point i havent touched mine in two weeks now. The carnage quests just suck and are beyond boring crap compared even to the old quest hubs and unless you are in love with the design of ember isle you will find the new zones more of the same EI progression but with added in kill 20 of this 15 of that along the way. While they made strides to making the world much larger , the boring quest system and lackluster soul system just sent me away , this time in way less time than before when i played for about 5 months straight.
I wish rift players the best of luck though because with the latest server merges I see this going the way of warhammer online very soon. People can argue they have all this new great technology all they want , but anyone who actually plays this and isnt some spectator or low level noob can tell you that people always leave , and just come back in high hopes the game patches have made the game better . This expansion just isnt going to do a thing for rift except milk the player base a little longer , but anyone disliking rift before will dislike it just as bad with Storm Legion.
Cleric healers got hit pretty hard with AOE heal nerfs (even if HOTs got buffs). Most of my builds weren't viable. They changed all the classes, a lot. If anything, the mage harbinger soul is probably the most OP one now. I'm still on the fence about purchase because PVP class balance is still a disaster and the devs don't care about it.
Class nerfs/buffs happen. If you play MMOs you know that. One patch X is god tier and Y is trash, 2 patches later Y is god tier. 3 patches later, the classes border on unrecognizable. In 1.9 wars were god tier.
Otherwise, I pretty much agree. If you liked RIFT before you still will, if you didn't this won't change your mind.
If there is a program that is better than this product,then there is no future.
Theres allready 10000 Coca Colas and Pepsis on the MMO Pop market and only one of them can be "The One" rest are just Dr.Peppers.
So its better for you Mr.Rift that you try to find your own taste like Russian Vodka,its quite nice actually,and theres some competition also,maybe Dr.Vodka?
Housing is cool addition ok i admit that,but casual crowd hates virtual world and RPG crowd loves housing,how to please them both ? if thats possible then WoW would have its housing in patch 1.001.
Let's internet
yeah i forgot about the aoe healing nerfs , i was speaking on the justicar soul sorry i should of been clearer. Nerfs happen you are right in every game as ive played them for years and the only other game i can think of right now that does the amount of nerfing is wow . The latest news is conquest is being removed also until they have enough 60s to do it at end game and they still have not designed a new map for it yet or even decided on its location . Its in the dev posts on their forums just cant find the old link .
See myself im not the type of guy to run around just spewing off nonsense about wow clone like some of the guys on here do who never even tried it. My beef with rift is the devs suck period (the class ones). Storm Legion doesnt offer nothing new at all to rift but more grinding from what i seen and the carnage quests are a sideshow attempt at more grinding for adventurer tokens. If the combat was fast paced like TSW or GW2 or Tera i could see the carnage quests being a lot of fun but the mobs have tons of health and take forever just to kill so its grinding nothing more. I really wish I could stick it out with Rift but no matter how hard i try every patch note i read since 1.11 has just pissed me off and after playing the beta for the 4 days running around on my warrior and rogue , i just hate it worse than the wow MOP expansion for grinding.
This baffles me. Did people just not play EQ? The two games are extremely dissimilar other than the genre similarities.
Both great games with strong virtual worlds, but the game play, and especially core philosophy, is very different.
WoW was very different when it came out, than the way the game is now.
As for Trion, they are one of the greatest video game companies right now. Whether MMO players like or hate Rift, everyone should be thankful that company is on the scene. They push other developers in terms of amount and quality of content. That's a good thing. Just like ArenaNet is great for the industry as well.
see i do not agree at all with this statement . Trion is doing absolutely nothing at all new to the genre and they built the tools directly into the engine before the game was released to make content easy to push out. Also its not like they designed their own game engine , its game byro same as warhammer used. Also ANet is doing nothing at all good for the genre for content updates. They are already way behind on things promised and the world vs world is a total trainwreck. This is an opinion of course but ive never really been in love with Trion and ANet lost my respect with how badly they handle world vs world but market it like its better than DAOC RvR. If anything Trion needs to learn to respect its playerbase and address glaring issues with stuff like pvp and class balance, maybe then people wouldnt just play the content fast and then unsub until a new patch comes out.
WoW was different yes, but still not like EQ. i think WoW actually had more in common with DAoC than EQ.
I do agree that Trion is good for the industry. However, I think the Rift team has made some pretty poor decisions though with the direction (or lack thereof) they have taken the game in and they are probably about the 4th or 5th company I would expect to make the next EQ-level success. But if they can get companies to push for faster updates Im all for it-although i think the better design is to not need constant updates, more content is always welcome.
I disagree, I no longer play Rift, but they seem to be producing content at a nice pace, and people that play it like it....No need to chase the uncertainty of f2p....What they are doing is working, it isn't WoW number wise, but it is working and making a profit.
I prefer subscriptions anyway, tired of all this I want free games, either you make it to where you are gouging 5-25% of the population, while the other 75% muddle around for free, or everyone pays a reasonible amount and it is not a gouge to anyone, and everyone is on the same level....Some games pull off f2p, without it being p2w, but a lot don't. Online gaming is about the cheapest form of entertainment you can enjoy, considering you most likely have internet anyways.
I was disappointed with Rift, but I think Trion is a good company, that if Rift is your thing, it would be a nice mmo to play and occupy your gaming time.
I mostly agree with what you said, but I still like the game. They do a good job of constantly putting out new PVE content.
I'm ungodly disappointed in PVP (even though these new souls will breathe some much-needed new life into it), like just about anyone who actually likes PVP that plays RIFT, but honestly if you can accept it's a PVE game w/pvp tacked on, it's a pretty good game.
And yeah, I probably will (just like you said) play through the expansion and unsub until the next major patch. Mainly because they don't balance pvp, which would otherwise keep me playing. They don't listen to addon devs either. That infuriated me more. Watchdog was a real smack in the face. I'll never code another addon after that monstrosity. The game addon API is pretty much terrible, esp compared to WoW (whatever its faults, the game is coded beautifully on a technical level).
Another person with access to Trion's books