I'd much rather pay fifteen dollars a month. Mico transactions are crap. Seriously don't understand these people spending hundreds of dollars on cash shop items.
Originally posted by redcapp I'd much rather pay fifteen dollars a month. Mico transactions are crap. Seriously don't understand these people spending hundreds of dollars on cash shop items.
Thats the thing. Most don't spend hardly anything.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
1. Monthly fee - pay same amount of money each month to get unlimited content
2. Hours fee - buy hours of playing and spend them when you play.
3. F2P - play for free but pay for additional content or to save some time
That's probably everything. I hate monthly fee when I'm working on some projects at my free time (what I do quite often) because I can work for weeks without playing any game and I thing that paying monthly fee is a waste of my money.
I would love hour fee. Charge your time and spend it while playing. It would be nice to have "PAUSE" in the game that also stop that clock since I would need to turn off the game every time I need to jump somewhere to do some stuff.
This is why for quite some time I stopped playing P2P games and I switchet to F2P like GW2 and PS2.
Originally posted by aladinversuk i'd rather play in a F2P server rather than a subscribtion based one. having monthly sub fee could make you feel obligated to play the game else your money will just be wasted. in a f2p server, vip or premium services are optional and you can pick it up whenever you feel like it.
'wasted'?
How little would you actually have to play in a week to feel like £2.50 (or thereabouts) was 'wasted'? An hour? Two?
My thought is that if you are playing less than an hour a week in a MMORPG often enough to feel the burn of the 'waste' then maybe this genre isn't for you.
My opinion is that the sub offers amazing value on an ongoing basis and promotes better core game design and a more stable community, with less focus on manipulating you into spending, and a more even play field for play to achieve gamers.
I used to have 5 level 80's all in raid gear in WoW, I have2 max level toons in SWTOR, and1 max level toon in Rift in raidgear, a few LoTRO toons I miss playing, a handful of toons in EQ1 and more toons w/ house in EQ2 that I would like to play.. SO... Are you saying I should shell out $80+ a month to play my games, and not feel like I'm wasting part of it, or most of it? Have you ever tried raiding in 5 different games at the same time? Think about it?
I actually think that the F2P model is pretty destructive to these games on a number of levels and, overall, represent worse value (under the often illusion of 'choice').
PS. edit.. I would like to try out STO as well, but I'm wanting to pay a sub for that either.. now we are up to $100 a month, and ArcheAge, NWN and ES are just around the corner.. Should I add those 3 games to my $15 a month list as well? Not sure about you, but I don't have $150 a month to waste on subscriptions..
Questions before I answer...
Are you saying, honestly, that you really need to play all these games concurrently? Really? How many do you play at once right now and which ones are they?
Why did you choose these sub games to play rather then the tons of F2P ones out there, taking your play needs into account and all?
How long do you spend in each title? Also, how much do you think that it would cost you to unlock the ability to fully access high level/ raid play in these games under a cash shop?
Please be honest rather then fib to support a point. I am just trying to get a clear picture of your true play habits rather then a lot of 'used to's and 'want to's.
Are you saying that the main benefit to F2P is that it allows a handful of players to play 5+ MMORPGs for maybe 3 hours a week each?
I play games like I eat my food.. It's all about personal preference.. Do I eat chicken every day until I tire so much of it, that I stop? NO.. Or as I am with golfing.. Do I play the same course every day until I become bored of it? NO.. Have you every heard of burn out? It's a very popular thing that happens to people that do the same thing over and over and over.. Why should I be forced to playing one game, when there are so many out there to play.. IMO.. Sub based games are a dying breed.. It's a shame that most F2P options are broken..
No need to be so defensive when others dont' like sub based games.. Especially, when standing in my shoes..
Originally posted by redcapp I'd much rather pay fifteen dollars a month. Mico transactions are crap. Seriously don't understand these people spending hundreds of dollars on cash shop items.
Thats the thing. Most don't spend hardly anything.
Originally posted by redcapp I'd much rather pay fifteen dollars a month. Mico transactions are crap. Seriously don't understand these people spending hundreds of dollars on cash shop items.
Thats the thing. Most don't spend hardly anything.
Cash shops are designed to get you to spend more.
and maybe they should be designed to "pay as you go".. I prefer a nice good ole pay as you go type of system and I wish there was more formats like that.. Some players consume the game content so fast, that sure they prefer a sub based game, because it's like a buffet.. While others might prefer an "ala carte" type of system that is more casual friendly.. It might take someone a year to digest all the content a hardcore gamer will do in 3 months.. Why should a casual player pay a penalty for slower play?
Originally posted by redcapp I'd much rather pay fifteen dollars a month. Mico transactions are crap. Seriously don't understand these people spending hundreds of dollars on cash shop items.
Thats the thing. Most don't spend hardly anything.
Cash shops are designed to get you to spend more.
Well then they aren't designed very well because there have been numerous studies, results posted on these very boards by several different sources showing between 60 and 80 percent of people pay nothing ever.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Originally posted by aladinversuk i'd rather play in a F2P server rather than a subscribtion based one. having monthly sub fee could make you feel obligated to play the game else your money will just be wasted. in a f2p server, vip or premium services are optional and you can pick it up whenever you feel like it.
'wasted'?
How little would you actually have to play in a week to feel like £2.50 (or thereabouts) was 'wasted'? An hour? Two?
My thought is that if you are playing less than an hour a week in a MMORPG often enough to feel the burn of the 'waste' then maybe this genre isn't for you.
My opinion is that the sub offers amazing value on an ongoing basis and promotes better core game design and a more stable community, with less focus on manipulating you into spending, and a more even play field for play to achieve gamers.
I used to have 5 level 80's all in raid gear in WoW, I have2 max level toons in SWTOR, and1 max level toon in Rift in raidgear, a few LoTRO toons I miss playing, a handful of toons in EQ1 and more toons w/ house in EQ2 that I would like to play.. SO... Are you saying I should shell out $80+ a month to play my games, and not feel like I'm wasting part of it, or most of it? Have you ever tried raiding in 5 different games at the same time? Think about it?
I actually think that the F2P model is pretty destructive to these games on a number of levels and, overall, represent worse value (under the often illusion of 'choice').
PS. edit.. I would like to try out STO as well, but I'm wanting to pay a sub for that either.. now we are up to $100 a month, and ArcheAge, NWN and ES are just around the corner.. Should I add those 3 games to my $15 a month list as well? Not sure about you, but I don't have $150 a month to waste on subscriptions..
Questions before I answer...
Are you saying, honestly, that you really need to play all these games concurrently? Really? How many do you play at once right now and which ones are they?
Why did you choose these sub games to play rather then the tons of F2P ones out there, taking your play needs into account and all?
How long do you spend in each title? Also, how much do you think that it would cost you to unlock the ability to fully access high level/ raid play in these games under a cash shop?
Please be honest rather then fib to support a point. I am just trying to get a clear picture of your true play habits rather then a lot of 'used to's and 'want to's.
Are you saying that the main benefit to F2P is that it allows a handful of players to play 5+ MMORPGs for maybe 3 hours a week each?
I play games like I eat my food.. It's all about personal preference.. Do I eat chicken every day until I tire so much of it, that I stop? NO.. Or as I am with golfing.. Do I play the same course every day until I become bored of it? NO.. Have you every heard of burn out? It's a very popular thing that happens to people that do the same thing over and over and over.. Why should I be forced to playing one game, when there are so many out there to play.. IMO.. Sub based games are a dying breed.. It's a shame that most F2P options are broken..
No need to be so defensive when others dont' like sub based games.. Especially, when standing in my shoes..
I actually think you are trying to switch this back to me with 'defensive' jibes and the like, because maybe you think attacking is a good defense or something, when all I really did was ask you a series of questions (which you didn't answer).
What annoys the total and complete piss out of me are the ones that have subscriptions + cash shop.
Which seems to be the new normal for the industry.
I mean seriously they could at least buy us dinner first
I have to admit I"m of two minds about p2p and cs. Not about whether I like it or don't but whether I don't like or don't mind it.
On one hand I definately would like to access the whole for one price.
On the other, the price has remained the same for a decade while costs have increasingly gone up (number of taxes, rental property, benefits, dev salaries, office costs...) so I recognize the need or desire for the companies to want to do something to offset those costs.
Then again cs and b2p+cs games are showing us that a subscription is not necessary at all. So I kinda go back and forth.
But also good or bad virtually all our our services do have added costs for extras. T.V. basic cost, additional channels, pvr, HD... costs more; Cell phone, basic plan but voice, data... casts more. Internet basic plan but if I want higher speed, webpage... costs more; Insurance basic plan but want more collision, rental cars... costs more. So I might just be used to it.
My only answer is just tell me the model up front, thats all I ask.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
What annoys the total and complete piss out of me are the ones that have subscriptions + cash shop.
Which seems to be the new normal for the industry.
I mean seriously they could at least buy us dinner first
I have to admit I"m of two minds about p2p and cs. Not about whether I like it or don't but whether I don't like or don't mind it.
On one hand I definately would like to access the whole for one price.
On the other, the price has remained the same for a decade while costs have increasingly gone up (number of taxes, rental property, benefits, dev salaries, office costs...) so I recognize the need or desire for the companies to want to do something to offset those costs.
Then again cs and b2p+cs games are showing us that a subscription is not necessary at all. So I kinda go back and forth.
But also good or bad virtually all our our services do have added costs for extras. T.V. basic cost, additional channels, pvr, HD... costs more; Cell phone, basic plan but voice, data... casts more. Internet basic plan but if I want higher speed, webpage... costs more; Insurance basic plan but want more collision, rental cars... costs more. So I might just be used to it.
My only answer is just tell me the model up front, thats all I ask.
ABSOLUTELY UNTRUE... online gaming is an exception. Almost every cost of bringing a game to market and maintaining it has decreased significantly. Development costs have dropped drastically to compete with outsourced markets, production costs are pennies on the dollar of what they were even 10 years ago, distribution costs have plummeted as well, bandwidth costs is now almost non exsistant when 15 years ago it was a major expense, hardware costs have increased but when you compare them on a scale of what you get now for your money compared to what you got then, you are getting a way better value now. The only thing that has really increased in costs is marketing and that is simply because media outlets have become greedy little trolls.
Also quite a few of those 15$ a month games have a box price or download cost or buy latest expansion cost......The games I play are free with no obligations and I play when I feel like it without feeling the need to get my 15 dollars worth....I've tried many of the sub games anyway and just never thought any of them were worth the price.
Originally posted by psiicat Originally posted by VengeSunsoarOriginally posted by psiicatWhat annoys the total and complete piss out of me are the ones that have subscriptions + cash shop.Which seems to be the new normal for the industry.I mean seriously they could at least buy us dinner first
I have to admit I"m of two minds about p2p and cs. Not about whether I like it or don't but whether I don't like or don't mind it.On one hand I definately would like to access the whole for one price.On the other, the price has remained the same for a decade while costs have increasingly gone up (number of taxes, rental property, benefits, dev salaries, office costs...) so I recognize the need or desire for the companies to want to do something to offset those costs.Then again cs and b2p+cs games are showing us that a subscription is not necessary at all. So I kinda go back and forth.But also good or bad virtually all our our services do have added costs for extras. T.V. basic cost, additional channels, pvr, HD... costs more; Cell phone, basic plan but voice, data... casts more. Internet basic plan but if I want higher speed, webpage... costs more; Insurance basic plan but want more collision, rental cars... costs more. So I might just be used to it. My only answer is just tell me the model up front, thats all I ask.ABSOLUTELY UNTRUE... online gaming is an exception. Almost every cost of bringing a game to market and maintaining it has decreased significantly. Development costs have dropped drastically to compete with outsourced markets, production costs are pennies on the dollar of what they were even 10 years ago, distribution costs have plummeted as well, bandwidth costs is now almost non exsistant when 15 years ago it was a major expense, hardware costs have increased but when you compare them on a scale of what you get now for your money compared to what you got then, you are getting a way better value now. The only thing that has really increased in costs is marketing and that is simply because media outlets have become greedy little trolls.
Uh maybe server maintenance has gone down but game development cost is exponentially higher than it was ten years ago.
What annoys the total and complete piss out of me are the ones that have subscriptions + cash shop.
Which seems to be the new normal for the industry.
I mean seriously they could at least buy us dinner first
I have to admit I"m of two minds about p2p and cs. Not about whether I like it or don't but whether I don't like or don't mind it.
On one hand I definately would like to access the whole for one price.
On the other, the price has remained the same for a decade while costs have increasingly gone up (number of taxes, rental property, benefits, dev salaries, office costs...) so I recognize the need or desire for the companies to want to do something to offset those costs.
Then again cs and b2p+cs games are showing us that a subscription is not necessary at all. So I kinda go back and forth.
But also good or bad virtually all our our services do have added costs for extras. T.V. basic cost, additional channels, pvr, HD... costs more; Cell phone, basic plan but voice, data... casts more. Internet basic plan but if I want higher speed, webpage... costs more; Insurance basic plan but want more collision, rental cars... costs more. So I might just be used to it.
My only answer is just tell me the model up front, thats all I ask.
ABSOLUTELY UNTRUE... online gaming is an exception. Almost every cost of bringing a game to market and maintaining it has decreased significantly. Development costs have dropped drastically to compete with outsourced markets, production costs are pennies on the dollar of what they were even 10 years ago, distribution costs have plummeted as well, bandwidth costs is now almost non exsistant when 15 years ago it was a major expense, hardware costs have increased but when you compare them on a scale of what you get now for your money compared to what you got then, you are getting a way better value now. The only thing that has really increased in costs is marketing and that is simply because media outlets have become greedy little trolls.
Actually no. Only the technical aspects of bringing a game to market have gone down. All the other costs have gone up (retail space has increased, develers salaries have increased, benefits have increased, office supply costs have increased) and the human component is by far the biggest costs for a company those have all increased.
Bandwidth and distribution is definatley a cost however the human costs are almost always the biggest cost for a company and those have all increased.
So why should a gaming service be different than my cell phone, internet, insurance, TV service?
Early on, development costs were minimal, and video games could be quite profitable. Games developed by a single programmer, or by a small team of programmers and artists, could sell hundreds of thousands of copies each. Many of these games only took a few months to create, so developers could release several titles each year. Thus, publishers could often be generous with benefits, such as royalties on the games sold. Many early game publishers started from this economic climate, such as Origin Systems, Sierra Entertainment, Capcom, Activision and Electronic Arts.
As computing and graphics power increased, so too did the size of development teams, as larger staffs were needed to address the ever increasing graphical and programming complexities. Now budgets can easily reach millions of dollars, even if middleware and pre-built game engines are used. Most professional games require one to three years to develop, further increasing the strain on budgets.
Aside from the tremendous time that goes into the coding and construction, labor is the largest cost in producing a game. Programmers can make $90k annually, or more. With the ability to locate offices in economical locations, and the ability to sublet work wherever it's cost efficient, the game industry can produce games for less.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
$15 is less than what I actually pay monthly for my broadband connection, which is at $20. It's just about the same price I play for my cellphone plan.
I'm a videogamer, but I guess I'm not really a MMO gamer at heart; I like to play all kinds of videogames and not just be tied to one or two. MMOs tend to take most of your time, especially your game time. I don't feel like I want to subscribe to something I wouldn't be playing for the most of my gaming time, or I fear that if I subscribed, I will be inclined to focus on just this one game and pass on the other ones that come along. It would feel like a sting to see that $15 bill at the end of every month for something you don't get to use as often as your internet or your phone.
Of course all that will go out the window if I find the one game worth subscribing to, but my standards are high.
Man, things are cheap where you live. My internet costs $35/month or so, and my phone is $62/month, and they're both pretty basic.
Originally posted by psiicatWhat annoys the total and complete piss out of me are the ones that have subscriptions + cash shop.Which seems to be the new normal for the industry.I mean seriously they could at least buy us dinner first
I have to admit I"m of two minds about p2p and cs. Not about whether I like it or don't but whether I don't like or don't mind it.On one hand I definately would like to access the whole for one price.On the other, the price has remained the same for a decade while costs have increasingly gone up (number of taxes, rental property, benefits, dev salaries, office costs...) so I recognize the need or desire for the companies to want to do something to offset those costs.Then again cs and b2p+cs games are showing us that a subscription is not necessary at all. So I kinda go back and forth.But also good or bad virtually all our our services do have added costs for extras. T.V. basic cost, additional channels, pvr, HD... costs more; Cell phone, basic plan but voice, data... casts more. Internet basic plan but if I want higher speed, webpage... costs more; Insurance basic plan but want more collision, rental cars... costs more. So I might just be used to it. My only answer is just tell me the model up front, thats all I ask.
ABSOLUTELY UNTRUE... online gaming is an exception. Almost every cost of bringing a game to market and maintaining it has decreased significantly. Development costs have dropped drastically to compete with outsourced markets, production costs are pennies on the dollar of what they were even 10 years ago, distribution costs have plummeted as well, bandwidth costs is now almost non exsistant when 15 years ago it was a major expense, hardware costs have increased but when you compare them on a scale of what you get now for your money compared to what you got then, you are getting a way better value now. The only thing that has really increased in costs is marketing and that is simply because media outlets have become greedy little trolls.
Uh maybe server maintenance has gone down but game development cost is exponentially higher than it was ten years ago.
Don't know who you are working for but where my hubby works they cut wages 30% across the board and put a 5 year pay freeze in place. The option was to have another parking lot pinkslip party and send all the work to India.
Originally posted by psiicat Originally posted by FoomerangOriginally posted by psiicatOriginally posted by VengeSunsoarOriginally posted by psiicatWhat annoys the total and complete piss out of me are the ones that have subscriptions + cash shop.Which seems to be the new normal for the industry.I mean seriously they could at least buy us dinner first
I have to admit I"m of two minds about p2p and cs. Not about whether I like it or don't but whether I don't like or don't mind it.On one hand I definately would like to access the whole for one price.On the other, the price has remained the same for a decade while costs have increasingly gone up (number of taxes, rental property, benefits, dev salaries, office costs...) so I recognize the need or desire for the companies to want to do something to offset those costs.Then again cs and b2p+cs games are showing us that a subscription is not necessary at all. So I kinda go back and forth.But also good or bad virtually all our our services do have added costs for extras. T.V. basic cost, additional channels, pvr, HD... costs more; Cell phone, basic plan but voice, data... casts more. Internet basic plan but if I want higher speed, webpage... costs more; Insurance basic plan but want more collision, rental cars... costs more. So I might just be used to it. My only answer is just tell me the model up front, thats all I ask.ABSOLUTELY UNTRUE... online gaming is an exception. Almost every cost of bringing a game to market and maintaining it has decreased significantly. Development costs have dropped drastically to compete with outsourced markets, production costs are pennies on the dollar of what they were even 10 years ago, distribution costs have plummeted as well, bandwidth costs is now almost non exsistant when 15 years ago it was a major expense, hardware costs have increased but when you compare them on a scale of what you get now for your money compared to what you got then, you are getting a way better value now. The only thing that has really increased in costs is marketing and that is simply because media outlets have become greedy little trolls.Uh maybe server maintenance has gone down but game development cost is exponentially higher than it was ten years ago. Don't know who you are working for but where my hubby works they cut wages 30% across the board and put a 5 year pay freeze in place. The option was to have another parking lot pinkslip party and send all the work to India.
Im sorry to hear that but thats the exception to the rule. Look up game development costs over the years it documents a different story. Average game cost in 2000 was 1-4 million. Average in 2010 was 20 million and its still growing.
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar Originally posted by psiicatOriginally posted by FoomerangAnybody who grew up in arcades like i did knows 15 a month aint shit. Kids these days dont even know haha
LOL I remember sitting there and pissing away $40 in quarters in one nightAnyone remember Black Tiger Yeah haha. Man all of those capcom side scroller beat em ups drained so many quarters. Then street fighter 2 and the fighting game craze....so many quarters and tokens lol
Ive probably put more than a few sega and capcom employees kids through college.
Originally posted by psiicatWhat annoys the total and complete piss out of me are the ones that have subscriptions + cash shop.Which seems to be the new normal for the industry.I mean seriously they could at least buy us dinner first
I have to admit I"m of two minds about p2p and cs. Not about whether I like it or don't but whether I don't like or don't mind it.On one hand I definately would like to access the whole for one price.On the other, the price has remained the same for a decade while costs have increasingly gone up (number of taxes, rental property, benefits, dev salaries, office costs...) so I recognize the need or desire for the companies to want to do something to offset those costs.Then again cs and b2p+cs games are showing us that a subscription is not necessary at all. So I kinda go back and forth.But also good or bad virtually all our our services do have added costs for extras. T.V. basic cost, additional channels, pvr, HD... costs more; Cell phone, basic plan but voice, data... casts more. Internet basic plan but if I want higher speed, webpage... costs more; Insurance basic plan but want more collision, rental cars... costs more. So I might just be used to it. My only answer is just tell me the model up front, thats all I ask.
ABSOLUTELY UNTRUE... online gaming is an exception. Almost every cost of bringing a game to market and maintaining it has decreased significantly. Development costs have dropped drastically to compete with outsourced markets, production costs are pennies on the dollar of what they were even 10 years ago, distribution costs have plummeted as well, bandwidth costs is now almost non exsistant when 15 years ago it was a major expense, hardware costs have increased but when you compare them on a scale of what you get now for your money compared to what you got then, you are getting a way better value now. The only thing that has really increased in costs is marketing and that is simply because media outlets have become greedy little trolls.
Uh maybe server maintenance has gone down but game development cost is exponentially higher than it was ten years ago.
Don't know who you are working for but where my hubby works they cut wages 30% across the board and put a 5 year pay freeze in place. The option was to have another parking lot pinkslip party and send all the work to India.
Im sorry to hear that but thats the exception to the rule. Look up game development costs over the years it documents a different story. Average game cost in 2000 was 1-4 million. Average in 2010 was 20 million and its still growing.
Or maybe that isn't the exception (well the wages going down is but hear me out). Why did they have to reduce wages? Possibly because costs of game development have increased to the point the company felt they had to do something to drive down costs.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
First, the cost of $15 is not a problem if ALL you plan on doing is playing one game at a time.. Some do that, and some don't.. I'm one of those some don't kind of guys.. There are days I feel like Sci Fi, and there are days I feel like super hero and other days I feel LoTRish, GW2ish or even WoW ish.. etc etc.. With a subscription plan like SOE loves to do, or Blizzard or Trion, etc, they are basically encouraging you to exclusively play their game only.. The reason why I own 1 car is because of cost.. Now someone like me that likes to play maybe 3, 4 or 5 different games a month, I'm sure as hell not going to fork out $15 for each one of them... That excuse of it's only $15 goes right out the window.. Tell us how easy it is to shell out $100 a month for gaming? I personally LOVE the B2P model that GW2 is using.. I wish ALL games followed that format.. I play it casually, sometimes only once or twice a week and NEVER feel that I'm wasting money on something I'm not playing..
As for my thoughts of $15.. I think that is just a lame excuse waste of money cash cow for the devs that can get away with it.. Back in the day it was mostly justified, but nowadays I think it's just excess profit.. It has become normal and standard policy to charge a sub for a MMO, and the general public accepts it as such.. I don't, not anymore.. Remember when it used to be normal for cars to charge you extra for automatic, FM radio etc etc.. Those are now standard and are a insignificant cost of the car and for good reason..
As a result.. I no longer play EQ2, EQ1, WoW, Rift, LoTRO and SWTOR because of their subscription plans.. Their F2P models are insane, and I'm not going to pay a $15 sub for each and every one of them.. So I play GW2 exclusively for now.. I have yet to buy one thing from Arenanet, and only have 1 character to 80th, and still exploring..
Shelling out 100.00 a month is not a problem for some, I can spend more than that in 1 night at the local bar. I actually have subs to Wow, Rift, SWTOR, Secret World and EQ2 and some I have not played in months but they are available when I get ready to play. I bought the WoW Panda expansion but have not actually logged in and played it yet because I have been busy in SWTOR and Rift for the last 3 months but when I get ready too login I can. Actually my WoW sub has been active since the day they went live so hopefully i have helped some Blizzard devs pay their rent lol.
Some may see that as a waste of a monthly fee but honestly I see it as a way to support the companies who make the games I enjoy. As a business owner myself I know you have to make money to stay in business and I have many clients who pay me monthly to keep a contract that states I will fix their computer / server within 24 hours of it crashing. Some of those companies have not used my service for 6+ months but they still pay me monthly because they know if I go out of business then they have to look for someone else to do their repairs and they know my quality of service and I already know their systems, software and have keys and access / alarm codes to their buildings so they support me because its cheaper than finding and training a new person to take over. Its the same with me supporting the MMO companies I enjoy. I know them, enjoy them and feel comfortable playing them so i pay them to help them stay in business.
I know some people due to the economy consider 15.00 a month a lot and where they live that 15.00 will buy more than it does in other areas like where I live 15.00 is a trip to Whataburger and if you decide to eat at one of the upscale places in this city you will be lucky to walk out with a bill under 150.00 per person. Several nightclubs here charge you 25.00 on weekends just to walk in the door, a trip to see the latest movie will easily cost you 40.00 or more per person when you include ticket price and food. So yeah 15.00 or even 100.00 a month is very cheap entertainment for me for 24/7 access. I am glad there are some FTP games because I know not everyone can shell out a monthly fee but honestly I have tried all the FTP including GW2 and they just did not grab my attention, they seemed less polished than a sub based game and like in GW2 I got tired of buying keys to open lockbox's or other cash shop items. I prefer to have everything I need included in my monthly fee no matter what that fee is.
It just depends on what you like and what you can afford. Some like FTP games and refuse to pay a monthly sub and some people prefer paying a sub over buying cash shop items which is why we have games catering to both types of gamers. I see it as whatever you enjoy doing then do it, some may agree with you and some will not but if it brings you fun and entertainment then why worry about what others think? If you see a monthly sub as a cash grab for the companies and don't agree with it then there are plenty of games out there who do not require you to pay that fee but some of us have no problem supporting a game we enjoy. In the end its all about having fun and playing what you enjoy.
Something that has been bugging me the last year or two in the industry is the freemium and B2P model taking off. This is my personal opinion: I think their downright awful (Freemium more than B2P). Yet this isn't the part that really makes me boil, but this huge populatiuon of people popping up stating that it's a A) Barrier of entry and Any "sub game" (mentioned almost as a blasphemous term these days) will result in failure in an adjusting market.
I'm not going to sit here and make a pros and cons list of each BUT;
When I pay my $15 a month I:
- Don't have to actively be reminded I'm spending money on a game regularly (And certaintly not in seperate installments every week).
- KNOW that I'll have access to ALL the current and upcoming content without having to do a damn thing.
- My immersion stays intact without seeing: "You have to spend X to unlock Hotbar 2 or Bagslot 6".
- In terms of barrier to entry: There's trials for just about every MMO, even free clients to level X. Hell, in RIft's example, buying the game is cheaper for the first month than paying the sub would be!
- It's FIFTEEN dollars a month; I know people are from different incomes, areas, etc , but comeon here. When I was 14 I could put aside fifteen dollars a month for an MMO, and now that I'm a broke college student fending for myself - I'm still capable and happily willing to put aside fifteen dollars for a vice that offers hundreds of more hours and more variety than most.
That last point just leads me to believe that stereotypes revolving around gamers, specifically MMOers, is true:
We're fat, lazy, and broke kids who sit around all day jobless.
Hardy har har, Netflix should be freemium and you buy movies individually instead of being charged 7.99-14.99 a month!
I prefer freemium / B2P / whateve you call it over sub. Paying a sub doesn't gaurentee quality and even if it did it doesnt equate to value. I like the idea of paying nothing to try out the game, see the ins and outs, and if I like it I dont mind dropping pennies in the cash shop for a mount or extra bag space.
If you feel F2P is really that bad just pay 15/month in the cash shop. I rather save my money and spend it on features/options I will *actually* play.
SWTOR is a perfect example. Decent game now that its free. I will never play in the Warzone or do Flashpoints so why should I pay for them? People who love those features should pay for it/support it. I just want to play the 8 stories and I will probably be done with it. And if I enjoy the stories I'll probably spend in the cash shop for extra quick bars. Still cheaper than 15/month.
Comments
Just give me a free trial and if I like it I'll sub.
Thats the thing. Most don't spend hardly anything.
I expect 2 ways to pay for game:
1. Monthly fee - pay same amount of money each month to get unlimited content
2. Hours fee - buy hours of playing and spend them when you play.
3. F2P - play for free but pay for additional content or to save some time
That's probably everything. I hate monthly fee when I'm working on some projects at my free time (what I do quite often) because I can work for weeks without playing any game and I thing that paying monthly fee is a waste of my money.
I would love hour fee. Charge your time and spend it while playing. It would be nice to have "PAUSE" in the game that also stop that clock since I would need to turn off the game every time I need to jump somewhere to do some stuff.
This is why for quite some time I stopped playing P2P games and I switchet to F2P like GW2 and PS2.
I play games like I eat my food.. It's all about personal preference.. Do I eat chicken every day until I tire so much of it, that I stop? NO.. Or as I am with golfing.. Do I play the same course every day until I become bored of it? NO.. Have you every heard of burn out? It's a very popular thing that happens to people that do the same thing over and over and over.. Why should I be forced to playing one game, when there are so many out there to play.. IMO.. Sub based games are a dying breed.. It's a shame that most F2P options are broken..
No need to be so defensive when others dont' like sub based games.. Especially, when standing in my shoes..
Cash shops are designed to get you to spend more.
and maybe they should be designed to "pay as you go".. I prefer a nice good ole pay as you go type of system and I wish there was more formats like that.. Some players consume the game content so fast, that sure they prefer a sub based game, because it's like a buffet.. While others might prefer an "ala carte" type of system that is more casual friendly.. It might take someone a year to digest all the content a hardcore gamer will do in 3 months.. Why should a casual player pay a penalty for slower play?
Well then they aren't designed very well because there have been numerous studies, results posted on these very boards by several different sources showing between 60 and 80 percent of people pay nothing ever.
I actually think you are trying to switch this back to me with 'defensive' jibes and the like, because maybe you think attacking is a good defense or something, when all I really did was ask you a series of questions (which you didn't answer).
What annoys the total and complete piss out of me are the ones that have subscriptions + cash shop.
Which seems to be the new normal for the industry.
I mean seriously they could at least buy us dinner first
I have to admit I"m of two minds about p2p and cs. Not about whether I like it or don't but whether I don't like or don't mind it.
On one hand I definately would like to access the whole for one price.
On the other, the price has remained the same for a decade while costs have increasingly gone up (number of taxes, rental property, benefits, dev salaries, office costs...) so I recognize the need or desire for the companies to want to do something to offset those costs.
Then again cs and b2p+cs games are showing us that a subscription is not necessary at all. So I kinda go back and forth.
But also good or bad virtually all our our services do have added costs for extras. T.V. basic cost, additional channels, pvr, HD... costs more; Cell phone, basic plan but voice, data... casts more. Internet basic plan but if I want higher speed, webpage... costs more; Insurance basic plan but want more collision, rental cars... costs more. So I might just be used to it.
My only answer is just tell me the model up front, thats all I ask.
Anybody who grew up in arcades like i did knows 15 a month aint shit. Kids these days dont even know haha
ABSOLUTELY UNTRUE... online gaming is an exception. Almost every cost of bringing a game to market and maintaining it has decreased significantly. Development costs have dropped drastically to compete with outsourced markets, production costs are pennies on the dollar of what they were even 10 years ago, distribution costs have plummeted as well, bandwidth costs is now almost non exsistant when 15 years ago it was a major expense, hardware costs have increased but when you compare them on a scale of what you get now for your money compared to what you got then, you are getting a way better value now. The only thing that has really increased in costs is marketing and that is simply because media outlets have become greedy little trolls.
LOL I remember sitting there and pissing away $40 in quarters in one night
ABSOLUTELY UNTRUE... online gaming is an exception. Almost every cost of bringing a game to market and maintaining it has decreased significantly. Development costs have dropped drastically to compete with outsourced markets, production costs are pennies on the dollar of what they were even 10 years ago, distribution costs have plummeted as well, bandwidth costs is now almost non exsistant when 15 years ago it was a major expense, hardware costs have increased but when you compare them on a scale of what you get now for your money compared to what you got then, you are getting a way better value now. The only thing that has really increased in costs is marketing and that is simply because media outlets have become greedy little trolls.
Uh maybe server maintenance has gone down but game development cost is exponentially higher than it was ten years ago.
Actually no. Only the technical aspects of bringing a game to market have gone down. All the other costs have gone up (retail space has increased, develers salaries have increased, benefits have increased, office supply costs have increased) and the human component is by far the biggest costs for a company those have all increased.
Bandwidth and distribution is definatley a cost however the human costs are almost always the biggest cost for a company and those have all increased.
So why should a gaming service be different than my cell phone, internet, insurance, TV service?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_industry
Early on, development costs were minimal, and video games could be quite profitable. Games developed by a single programmer, or by a small team of programmers and artists, could sell hundreds of thousands of copies each. Many of these games only took a few months to create, so developers could release several titles each year. Thus, publishers could often be generous with benefits, such as royalties on the games sold. Many early game publishers started from this economic climate, such as Origin Systems, Sierra Entertainment, Capcom, Activision and Electronic Arts.
As computing and graphics power increased, so too did the size of development teams, as larger staffs were needed to address the ever increasing graphical and programming complexities. Now budgets can easily reach millions of dollars, even if middleware and pre-built game engines are used. Most professional games require one to three years to develop, further increasing the strain on budgets.
http://seekingalpha.com/article/89124-the-video-game-industry-an-18-billion-entertainment-juggernaut
Aside from the tremendous time that goes into the coding and construction, labor is the largest cost in producing a game. Programmers can make $90k annually, or more. With the ability to locate offices in economical locations, and the ability to sublet work wherever it's cost efficient, the game industry can produce games for less.
Anyone remember Black Tiger
Man, things are cheap where you live. My internet costs $35/month or so, and my phone is $62/month, and they're both pretty basic.
Don't know who you are working for but where my hubby works they cut wages 30% across the board and put a 5 year pay freeze in place. The option was to have another parking lot pinkslip party and send all the work to India.
ABSOLUTELY UNTRUE... online gaming is an exception. Almost every cost of bringing a game to market and maintaining it has decreased significantly. Development costs have dropped drastically to compete with outsourced markets, production costs are pennies on the dollar of what they were even 10 years ago, distribution costs have plummeted as well, bandwidth costs is now almost non exsistant when 15 years ago it was a major expense, hardware costs have increased but when you compare them on a scale of what you get now for your money compared to what you got then, you are getting a way better value now. The only thing that has really increased in costs is marketing and that is simply because media outlets have become greedy little trolls.
Uh maybe server maintenance has gone down but game development cost is exponentially higher than it was ten years ago.
Don't know who you are working for but where my hubby works they cut wages 30% across the board and put a 5 year pay freeze in place. The option was to have another parking lot pinkslip party and send all the work to India.
Im sorry to hear that
but thats the exception to the rule. Look up game development costs over the years it documents a different story. Average game cost in 2000 was 1-4 million. Average in 2010 was 20 million and its still growing.
Anyone remember Black Tiger
Yeah haha. Man all of those capcom side scroller beat em ups drained so many quarters. Then street fighter 2 and the fighting game craze....so many quarters and tokens lol
Ive probably put more than a few sega and capcom employees kids through college.
Or maybe that isn't the exception (well the wages going down is but hear me out). Why did they have to reduce wages? Possibly because costs of game development have increased to the point the company felt they had to do something to drive down costs.
Shelling out 100.00 a month is not a problem for some, I can spend more than that in 1 night at the local bar. I actually have subs to Wow, Rift, SWTOR, Secret World and EQ2 and some I have not played in months but they are available when I get ready to play. I bought the WoW Panda expansion but have not actually logged in and played it yet because I have been busy in SWTOR and Rift for the last 3 months but when I get ready too login I can. Actually my WoW sub has been active since the day they went live so hopefully i have helped some Blizzard devs pay their rent lol.
Some may see that as a waste of a monthly fee but honestly I see it as a way to support the companies who make the games I enjoy. As a business owner myself I know you have to make money to stay in business and I have many clients who pay me monthly to keep a contract that states I will fix their computer / server within 24 hours of it crashing. Some of those companies have not used my service for 6+ months but they still pay me monthly because they know if I go out of business then they have to look for someone else to do their repairs and they know my quality of service and I already know their systems, software and have keys and access / alarm codes to their buildings so they support me because its cheaper than finding and training a new person to take over. Its the same with me supporting the MMO companies I enjoy. I know them, enjoy them and feel comfortable playing them so i pay them to help them stay in business.
I know some people due to the economy consider 15.00 a month a lot and where they live that 15.00 will buy more than it does in other areas like where I live 15.00 is a trip to Whataburger and if you decide to eat at one of the upscale places in this city you will be lucky to walk out with a bill under 150.00 per person. Several nightclubs here charge you 25.00 on weekends just to walk in the door, a trip to see the latest movie will easily cost you 40.00 or more per person when you include ticket price and food. So yeah 15.00 or even 100.00 a month is very cheap entertainment for me for 24/7 access. I am glad there are some FTP games because I know not everyone can shell out a monthly fee but honestly I have tried all the FTP including GW2 and they just did not grab my attention, they seemed less polished than a sub based game and like in GW2 I got tired of buying keys to open lockbox's or other cash shop items. I prefer to have everything I need included in my monthly fee no matter what that fee is.
It just depends on what you like and what you can afford. Some like FTP games and refuse to pay a monthly sub and some people prefer paying a sub over buying cash shop items which is why we have games catering to both types of gamers. I see it as whatever you enjoy doing then do it, some may agree with you and some will not but if it brings you fun and entertainment then why worry about what others think? If you see a monthly sub as a cash grab for the companies and don't agree with it then there are plenty of games out there who do not require you to pay that fee but some of us have no problem supporting a game we enjoy. In the end its all about having fun and playing what you enjoy.
I prefer freemium / B2P / whateve you call it over sub. Paying a sub doesn't gaurentee quality and even if it did it doesnt equate to value. I like the idea of paying nothing to try out the game, see the ins and outs, and if I like it I dont mind dropping pennies in the cash shop for a mount or extra bag space.
If you feel F2P is really that bad just pay 15/month in the cash shop. I rather save my money and spend it on features/options I will *actually* play.
SWTOR is a perfect example. Decent game now that its free. I will never play in the Warzone or do Flashpoints so why should I pay for them? People who love those features should pay for it/support it. I just want to play the 8 stories and I will probably be done with it. And if I enjoy the stories I'll probably spend in the cash shop for extra quick bars. Still cheaper than 15/month.