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Tasos on crafting and regional banks
DarthRaiden
Member UncommonPosts: 4,333
No limitations on crafting.
Not in our plans. on regional banks.
Tasos would say everythink to make it sound like its a good thing. But we have had the experience with everyone can craft everything and our demand for cap on crafting is based on that experience.
1) Divesification issues. Like with combat being all the same we have the same issue on crafting. But hey "crafting is not important "
2) Economy issues. Less interpresonal trade and more crafting on my own.
3) Crafter/trader has not explicit role in the DF:UW world, no one can excell in it (because there is no exclusivity in what he does if everyone can do it). One less playstyle, less of the sand in the box.
4)there is not the lack of a cap alone, add mob drop item loot, shallow gathering and crafting mechanics, raw materials with no diversifying attributes, DF:UW has no love in gebneral for the crafter play style.
What i know is crafter type of players show the most longterm commitment to a game and they usually love the game they play the most (Combat games are everywhere and very fast to replace). way to allienate that playstyle.
On the live chat btw there was a huge demand for answer on crafting caps, regional ressources and regional banks. I am not alone in this.
Finally
AV did cheat on the original playerbase. They always say how much they do this and that and sandbox etc. and never any word that they changed their initial ideas.
Whnever it fits him Tasos says its a new game and whenever it fits him he says but its exactly the contiuatuion of the original vision.
In the original vision he was talking about a masterpice of hellish "item creator".
"Darkfall's crafting system is intuitive, non-repetitive, challenging, useful, fun - and profitable. Using Darkfall's virtually limitless item creator system, you could invent and be the first to use a weapon as awesome as the Flamefury Raudstaal Battleaxe of Bloodshed, or just make a simple saddle for your horse."
They got 3 years of my sub money to give them time to create that wonderfull thing for me and to just now see Tasos answer about crafting cap that way he did it ? Of course i am upset..
But fear not , the next thing you wait for and are on the list is ..Primalist , which is nr 1 priotity...mounted combat school, auction houses..................;)
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$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
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Comments
I get where Darth is coming from and trying to convey here.
Being able to craft everything, and not having any specialization or cap on crafting makes crafting in UW like character development in DF 1. It leads to more people doing everything to support themselves as apposed to people doing specific things to support the community.
They made the mistake in the original by thinking that if it takes a really long time to level skills then people will specialize. You wouldn't have warrior/mage/archers, because it would take so long to level skills in each area; so you'd get people who focus on magic, other focus on archer, etc. In reality it doesn't, and didn't, work that way.
With no specialization or cap on crafting it's reasonable to assume that either leveling through a single crafting proffesion will be as tedious as it was the first time, or everyone will just level all crafting skills to make their own stuff. Not that that isn't already how it was.
No regional banks and resources is also not cool, and something crafters wanted from the get go, but doesn't really support Tasos' idea that it's better for people to be able to jump back into a fight then it is to force them to have to run around and get regeared and not make it back in time.
I can't really disagree with that.
DF is what DF is, and it's not so much about being a sandbox MMO as it is about being a PvP MMO. I think it's safe at this point to just forget what the original vision of the game was (which I do personally prefer) and just accept what the current vission of DF is.
An arena deathmatch for those people who just want an MMO to run around kill people with. I'm sure someone will come along and rage against that; telling me I'm wrong, and all I can say is no I'm not. If the developers tell you straight up that they just want to make a game that's fun to run around and kill eaich other and fight over keeps, than that's what they're making. To expect anything more or try to pass it off as anything than that is silly and misleading.
AV isn't out to build an awesome sandbox, they just want to make a fun PvP mmo. There's nothing wrong with that either. It's not my cup of tea, or many other for that matter, but if enough people enjoy it to keep it going then good on them. The problem isn't so much that that's the kind of game AV wants to make, but that they aren't stupid enough to come out and say it directly.
You know I would normally agree with you both if Darkfall was like any other MMO out there. But the simple fact is, it's not. There are reasons people are able to craft everything. Not to ruin the economy or make it so everyone can do this or that. The biggest reason is that it is realistic, and it will stop players who love crafting from complaining about only having a few crafting abilities to choose from with there one character you can have. The game is dynamic, which allows you to be whatever you want. No one is complaining about being whatever role you want to be at anytime, but as soon as a crafter comes in and is able to make everything, we flip a lid lol.
I don't like to craft at all, but I can see why it is needed. If you think you can solo this game and travel agon with out a party or players to help you, well than I would love to see that.
Come check out what I have to say on my blog http://civilgamer.com
Also check out http;//agonasylum.com for Darkfall player trading and stories forums
Is this a joke? There are many complaints in the original about players being able to max everything. It is the reason that the original DF had so much grind, and the reason why crafting became pointless. I don't disagree that players should be able to craft everything, but the game should still consider specializations for crafting. Even if the mechanic was allowing players to raise their crafting to 50 in every category, but only cap 1 or 2 profressions.
No limitations on crafting. You mean like EVE, is that sandbox lite?
No regional banks. Yeah that is a shame, but then they are trying to make it somewhat more noob friendly, given it is a full loot game it makes sense and is certainly not something to be crying over.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
Regional economies is the reason why crafting is so important in EVE. Do you really think that the game would be the same if everyone could craft in 1.0, then fly to null and pull it out of their corp bank?
Without regional systems crafting is and will always be pointless, but as another poster pointed out DF:UW isn't really trying to be an MMO.
I want a game like darkfall with local banking and localized resources. I want pack mules and caravans everything else that local banking adds to the game.
All this does is put players on mobility limitations, people will flock to one area and stay there because they don't want to have to deal with moving all their shit to another, and losing it. Although i can see how it would be kinda cool.
It adds layers of depth, which is a good thing. If people want a quick pvp fix they can go play GW2, WoW and PS2 among many others. With local or regional banking then areas become more important and contested. That area becomes your virtual home. More care is needed for diplomacy. Wars, truly can be about attrition. Supply lines can be overextended.
As to the crafting, by allowing anyone to craft everything then everyone won't need anything. This is another mistake. What is needed is more crafting profession and make it so you can only do one. Add in stat decay and now have a place for dedicated crafters.
The first part is crafting skill specific (namely skill caps) and has fk all to do with a games economy.
The second part points out the fact that it is a shame that there is no regional banking, but it will probably be more noob friendly.
So which part do you disagree with again?
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
Aventurine didnt listen to the regional banking mafia, well done Aventurine.
Fast ways to get arround and also get hold of restock items will get you as a PvP interested player back in action in no time. Having to run forever through boring landscapes cause 1% of the playerbase seems this as the major feature didnt get the developers attention.
Crafting is another matter and should have gotten it's own class, not something that all could do. It will remove alot of dedicated crafters from the game.
Regional banking mafia? Lol. And you represent the Global Banking Syndicate?
They both have their pros and cons. I was glad that DF1 changed the banking so enemies could not use the bank at your guild city, but that change should have happened a lot sooner.
I really was hoping for a more intricate game design instead of the shallow version.
EVE does have limitations on crafting, they just don't come in the form of a cap. I build and sell nearly 200 different things in EVE, there are deffinately limitations.
17 days to train Cruiser construction from lvl 4 to 5 so you can build a ship is a limitation. You have to actually want to build that ship to be willing to train that skill. Then I have skills that took or will take a month to train so I can build other ships. Not to mention the invention proccess, the skills to invent, then you have facility and logistics restriction that will limit what you can do.
And there is indeed specializatin in EVE. Capital ship production isn't something you do alone, you need people who build specific parts, or specialists, in order to build an entire capital ship. You can do it yourself, but your'e going to be building for a really long time just to produce a single ship.
There are a lot of lmitations in crafting in EVE, and it's not really that easy to be self sustaining. I didn't ever have to buy a thing from another player, or have another player make anything for me in DF. CCP was smart enough to build limitations that didn't make it feel like they were making restrictions. They didn't put in hard caps on what skills you can train just to get people to branch out, it's all tied into sensible mechanics that make logistics the limitting factor.
When you only build a hadful of things, in a station other people aren't bulding, it seems like there are no limits. When you get to the more advanced ships and modules, and building lots and lots of stuff, it's an entirely different beast.
There's no comparison here, DF is nothing like EVE when it comes to crafting. DF is nothing like EVE period.
Yes they were complaining about players being able to cap everything, and it was not towards crafting, it was towards skills and magic. Everyone was a hybrid in DF 1.0 or you failed, it made the game a bunch of the same things, which is why they balanced the game with specializations. This is not the case with crafting because mabye 10 people out of 500 could give two piles of dung that someone can make everything in the game. It does nothing to the economy and would serve no purpose otherwise if it was changed. To be completely raw they would receive more complaints if they put specializations on crafting than leaving them how they are. Can you people just stop complaining, if you don't want to play the game than don't. Oh no that person can make swords and axes and armor.....damn him now my crafting is useless.... Honestly crafting is normally useless. Sure some stuff is best in slot at times, but you have guilds and other things for people who enjoy crafting. If I have a clan mate who likes spending his entire day on a game and maxing out all of his crafting skills than good for him, I will keep my two and be happy about it.
So no it is not a joke, it is true. You failed to give any good reasons why it would be a benefit for there to be a crafting specialization cap for this particulr game. DOn't forget what type of game this is. It is not WoW, it is not Rift, It is not GW2, IT IS NOT UO.... this is Darkfall, and they will focus on what is best for that particular gameplay. Because Darkfall is a DYNAMIC MMORPG. Which means your character is supposed to be dynamic.
dy·nam·ic/d??namik/
Which means I should be able to change whatever I want. If I want to be an archer with a fetish for making staves, or a warrior with a knack for making ships I am allowed too and I shouldn't have a cap because in real life if I want to be an accountant who also is a white water raft instructor, I can do that. All hail realism. Or you can go play Pac-Man
Come check out what I have to say on my blog http://civilgamer.com
Also check out http;//agonasylum.com for Darkfall player trading and stories forums
The problem with real life and game life is that in the first you actually have a cap, your life. There are just so many professions you can learn before you die.
Darkfall it takes a month or a week to master something and your character has no fear of dying from old age.
Also in real life you start forgetting things from old jobs when you learn new ones, if you dont practice something for a long time you forget or get crap at it, in Darkfall you dont.
If you guys talk about limits then it could be possible to just make it harder and harder and very stupid hard to level so many craft professions. The more you level up in one the harder it becomes in the others and that one too, so if you want to be a god crafter then it ould get to be something like 10 times harder than originally planned.
And what do you know? I'm 100% sure that a craftingclass would be welcomed by the DF players. Please inform us all where you get your information from? Poll?
Biggest flaw with DF UW is that everyone can make everything. Being a crafter is gonna be very, very boring since all can do anything. There is no need for the dedicated crafters in DF UW.
We the players interested in crafing havent got anything from Aventurine, they only care about the PvP classes. I like PvP alot but it is very sad that crafters didnt get any love from AV.
And you should just hush if we the players that enjoy crafting want to spew out our anger towards Aventurine. They informed us that they were gonna change crafting but now we can see that it will be the same crappy craftingsystem as Darkfall 1 had.
forgive my ignorance but what is a regional bank? and how is that different from what will be in the game?
also, i don't think everyone should be able to craft everything. although in the interview he made it seem as though maxing all crafting professions would be quite the grind.
Regional banking in it's most restrictive design means that each bank has a seperate inventory, and items cannot be accessed from a different bank. It can also be implemented so that only banks within a certain region offer access to items that have been deposited within that region.
DF:UW will have a global system. Any bank will give you access to your entire inventory. I don't know if they mentioned it would be the same for clan banks.
ok. thanks for reply. it sounds like regional banks would be cool though.
That was easily fixed with good scripting and alot of rescources. Players got skill when the character were logged in but the one owning the character were fast asleep in his bed.
Players cheated and they will continue doing so.