There rather is a general consensus that the game.. well isn´t anything special. And didn´t live up to something people would have preferred, like a glorious SWG2.
The most polarizing game must be GW2 because there are still some fans defending this game like crazy. Don´t see that many defenders of SWTOR around, except the ones in the official forums.
Your opinions differ from mine. I do not post here much anymore. I still enjoy playing SWToR. SWToR has remained number 3 on xfire's mmo list pretty since GW2 came out. The game is not perfect, but no game that you do not design yourself ever is.
I do not feel the need to bash away at other posters. I believe having a positive outlook on life leads to a lot more success in life. A great deal of what you can get accomplished depends on getting other people to do things.
There rather is a general consensus that the game.. well isn´t anything special. And didn´t live up to something people would have preferred, like a glorious SWG2.
The most polarizing game must be GW2 because there are still some fans defending this game like crazy. Don´t see that many defenders of SWTOR around, except the ones in the official forums.
I think you make a point, SWTOR isn't anything special, and the fact that it is a Star Wars title that had 100's of millions of dollars pumped into it makes it mediocrity even more glaring.
A lot of people pointed out flaws in their game design, but they claimed to know better. In the end, the fans knew better which was no real surpirse to most of us. That's why I perceive more apathy towards SWTOR than antipathy. It's not like it was...OMG THAT DIDN'T WORK! It was more like, yeah, we told them over and over but they didn't listen. Therefore in a way I think people were ready for the game to fail, not because they were necessarily hating, but after awhile if you have a certain kind of brain you can play things out in your head before even touching a game and sense if it will fail or succeed.
GW2 - if you don't like the game, the fans will say your playing it wrong or do there best to prove your "opinion" wrong.
SWTOR - if you like the game, everyone will beat a dead horse and remind you how much they don't like almost like they don't want you to.
That's been my experience, but I'd say both are equally polarizing. Opposites really.
Just for old times sake:
SWTOR - If you can't run the game with decent framerates, you will get a hundred responses of how your computer is not optimized properly or how you need to upgrade because the parts you bought last year are obsolete... It's all your fault for having a computer more than 2 years old. If you don't like loadscreens, you obviously are not using a flashdrive .. an $800 graphics cards is not enough, you need 2 of them .. noob. (hehe)
GW2 is worse, but I wanted to remind you of the salt that is mixed in both games.
what you say about SW:tor is exactly my experience with Vangard. If you get poor frame rates or experience bugs its not the game its you 5 year old best buy $500 dollar computer they say. (dispite whatever computer you might actually have ie2 y/o closer to 2000 dollar alienware)
If MMROPG.COM stats are to be believed SW:tor has a smaller fan base then Darkfall Unholy wars which is very polarised its self.
SWTOR fans avoid this site. Every day I visit it I ask myself why do I want to read this crap. I guess I am a masochist. None of my game friends read the forum here, just game forums. In fact they asked me why I am doing that LOL.
I don't think it is just SWTOR fans. Most people that play MMO's don't visit this or the MMO's forums from what I have found. Read one stat that says that only about 7% of those that play MMO's actually visit their own game's forums. It is one reason I rarely take as gospel when someone says the forums are valid feedback. It is ONE form of feedback but by far not the best one.
There rather is a general consensus that the game.. well isn´t anything special. And didn´t live up to something people would have preferred, like a glorious SWG2.
The most polarizing game must be GW2 because there are still some fans defending this game like crazy. Don´t see that many defenders of SWTOR around, except the ones in the official forums.
Agreed, definitely GW2.
It wasn't a massive success on the scale of WoW or a massive fail on the scale of Mortals Online, but there are significant groups claiming either one to be the case.
It is a good enough game, probably on the range of Planetside 2 (which means doing better than TSW and swtor, but not on scale WoW)
The massive success that is the scale of WoW was a unique situation and occurred over years (not 3 months). Nothing, not created by Blizzard, will be able to do much to recreate that. But then again, they failed on Diablo 3 (imo), so perhaps they may not be able to repeat that themselves.
Of course if SWTOR wasn't soooo Themepark it would have done better :P Just being able to play a real alien would have been leaps better haha.
False simply because there are very few people here who strongly love SWTOR. You can't be that polarizing when 10% love you and 90% think you are either meh or terrible.
SWTOR fans avoid this site. Every day I visit it I ask myself why do I want to read this crap. I guess I am a masochist. None of my game friends read the forum here, just game forums. In fact they asked me why I am doing that LOL.
I don't think it is just SWTOR fans. Most people that play MMO's don't visit this or the MMO's forums from what I have found. Read one stat that says that only about 7% of those that play MMO's actually visit their own game's forums. It is one reason I rarely take as gospel when someone says the forums are valid feedback. It is ONE form of feedback but by far not the best one.
Lol, I have a good friend who believes that forums ruin the gaming experience. In his words, "most gaming forums are filled with angry, bitter people". The negativity is infective according to him.
The developer blogs have been an attempt to move away from the forum experience. You can now get your gaming news on the main page and never interact with the forums at all. The developer blogs are an attempt to present the updates for the game in a more positive environment.
Originally posted by SuperXero89 I think GW2 is more polarizing than SW:TOR. Nearly everyone here hates SW:TOR and thinks the game is already shut down.
Really? You wouldn't know it by all the bile you see in every SWTOR thread that pops up. I'd give GW2 a close 2nd though.
I really like both games myself but then again..I'm fairly easy to please. I never hype myself up to the point of developing fantastical expectations of upcoming MMOs/video games.
SWTOR fans avoid this site. Every day I visit it I ask myself why do I want to read this crap. I guess I am a masochist. None of my game friends read the forum here, just game forums. In fact they asked me why I am doing that LOL.
I don't think it is just SWTOR fans. Most people that play MMO's don't visit this or the MMO's forums from what I have found. Read one stat that says that only about 7% of those that play MMO's actually visit their own game's forums. It is one reason I rarely take as gospel when someone says the forums are valid feedback. It is ONE form of feedback but by far not the best one.
Lol, I have a good friend who believes that forums ruin the gaming experience. In his words, "most gaming forums are filled with angry, bitter people". The negativity is infective according to him.
The developer blogs have been an attempt to move away from the forum experience. You can now get your gaming news on the main page and never interact with the forums at all. The developer blogs are an attempt to present the updates for the game in a more positive environment.
I'm beginning to believe the same as your good friend and almost miss the days when reviews were only found in EGM or similar game magazines with nothing but a letters page from the fans/playerbase.
Lol, I have a good friend who believes that forums ruin the gaming experience. In his words, "most gaming forums are filled with angry, bitter people". The negativity is infective according to him.
The developer blogs have been an attempt to move away from the forum experience. You can now get your gaming news on the main page and never interact with the forums at all. The developer blogs are an attempt to present the updates for the game in a more positive environment.
I'm beginning to believe the same as your good friend and almost miss the days when reviews were only found in EGM or similar game magazines with nothing but a letters page from the fans/playerbase.
I miss those days as well. I remember picking up an issue of both EGM and Gamepro every month for years. I loved reading all of the letters. The reviews were quite helpful and saved my parents (and down the line, myself) a lot of money. Games that sucked actually received scores that reflected their lack of quality.
We have gained so much since the birth of the internet, but at the same time, so much has been lost.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
It easily goes to GW2. Even at release, most people who enjoyed the TOR didn't say it was the greatest game ever and you must play it. Sure hard, rude criticism sparked flame wars. But any game has that happen to it.
As was said, there are plenty of people who play and enjoy SW. But they don't cling to some stupid hope that this is the greatest game ever and that there are no problems. (content, pvp, no end game, TERRIBLE FREAKING ART ON END GAME SETS WTF). They just enjoy the game and Star Wars.
Yet on this forum, there are people who still believe gw2 is the second coming and the slightest fault against it, is a sin against Odin.
Many people started hating on TOR before any videos were released because 'It wasn't swg2!!!111". It was accepted to be bad before the game release. Thus when it did, people weren't doing what they did with gw2 currently. They knew they wouldn't like tor before hand, but claimed gw2 was going to be amazing. And now so many found out the truth.
I see much more polarizing of GW2, but yet more posts about TOR. Weird!
gw2 doesn't seem that polarizing... most discussions i see ppl are able to find some middle ground.. I haven't really seen too many posts were no one was able to come to an agreement.
This topic used to have it's determined anti-squad, but most of them moved along ages ago.
Fresh alts, and off to working on the next game down the list.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
GW2 - if you don't like the game, the fans will say your playing it wrong or do there best to prove your "opinion" wrong.
SWTOR - if you like the game, everyone will beat a dead horse and remind you how much they don't like almost like they don't want you to.
That's been my experience, but I'd say both are equally polarizing. Opposites really.
Just for old times sake:
SWTOR - If you can't run the game with decent framerates, you will get a hundred responses of how your computer is not optimized properly or how you need to upgrade because the parts you bought last year are obsolete... It's all your fault for having a computer more than 2 years old. If you don't like loadscreens, you obviously are not using a flashdrive .. an $800 graphics cards is not enough, you need 2 of them .. noob. (hehe)
GW2 is worse, but I wanted to remind you of the salt that is mixed in both games.
what you say about SW:tor is exactly my experience with Vangard. If you get poor frame rates or experience bugs its not the game its you 5 year old best buy $500 dollar computer they say. (dispite whatever computer you might actually have ie2 y/o closer to 2000 dollar alienware)
If MMROPG.COM stats are to be believed SW:tor has a smaller fan base then Darkfall Unholy wars which is very polarised its self.
SWTOR fans avoid this site. Every day I visit it I ask myself why do I want to read this crap. I guess I am a masochist. None of my game friends read the forum here, just game forums. In fact they asked me why I am doing that LOL.
You like it, you know you do. :-)
But maybe you enjoy info that you can't get on fan sites alone... you know the dark side stuff :P .. or maybe just industry related news that isn't available on fan sites alone.
I mean, if you only went to fan sites, would you ever know that EA bought BioWare in 2007 for over $700 million dollars USD? Probably not. Would you see the second side to the slippery toungues of EA representatives on fan sites? Not likely.
You like hearing all angles to SWTOR. Tell your friends that. :-D
Actually it was 860 millions. When I want news I don't look at forums. news here are distorted. If I want SWTOR news I got to google and type swtor news /grin... same about other stuff.
And this SWTOR forum is biased so badly I would not recommend it to anybody to get information other than posts from MMORPG staff. I think the only reason I am here is that I do not think it is fair to this awesome game to be so distorted and hated. So I try to bring some balance. And I am glad I am not the only one. Thanks to all who are friends of SWTOR
Originally posted by SuperXero89 I think GW2 is more polarizing than SW:TOR. Nearly everyone here hates SW:TOR and thinks the game is already shut down.
TSW by far. all fans of it praise it to the same delusional degree(literlally every fan here) while everyone else sees it as trash, not just a meh game but a horrible one.
even SWTOR and GW2 always had and still have many different levels of good/bad opinion. with TSw it's either you have it on a pedestal or you crap on it...nothing in between. the only one here who even pretended to be in between can't hide the fact that he worships it now.
Originally posted by Roxtarr I would say that GW2 is much more polarizing than SWTOR. Most people agree that SWTOR was a disappointment.
Cool story. MMORPG.com has a systemic hatred of SWTOR and the fact that it has never been added to the list of free to play MMO's on the side bar is proof. MMORPG.com is where the vast majority of trolls on the SWTOR forums come from and are generally the center of SWG sanbox love.
Clearly the SWTOR defense team needs some new recruits so...
here I be. Game is fun. Yes, it is.
Did it meet expectations? No. Have any of the big titles? Nerp. Was that even possible? Nope.
Good game, playing and will continue to play. They have a lot of room for improvement but as long as we see growth, I'm good with it.
Oh and to respond to the actual purpose of this thread...lol...I would say GW2 is more polarizing, as yes, the majority of the community do seem to dislike the old republic outright(wonder how many actually played??), while GW2 opinions seem to come from both ends of the spectrum.
Pretty much spoken already. SWTOR is pretty much looked down upon by a large majority. Gw2 is the golden game where people stand at one side or the other. Though I can admit SWTOR was more appealing to me then GW2... what, sorry if it was it just felt better playing it to me and more entertaining!
Both games have their own audience and both have their flaws, many flaws at that.
Originally posted by grimal It was GW2, but it's slowly moving back to SWTOR. In a few months, people will have forgotten about GW2. But I guarentee we will still see the same hate filled posts popping up about TOR.
Originally posted by grimal It was GW2, but it's slowly moving back to SWTOR. In a few months, people will have forgotten about GW2. But I guarentee we will still see the same hate filled posts popping up about TOR.
^This
I TOR and the hate makes me enjoy it more
Same. Its amusing to see people puking up the same drivel over and over again. Which of course is followed by a few sentences justifying their opinion by saying something like "ive played since beta" or someo other nonsense. I received the game last christmas, played for about a month, and quit. I didnt like it very much. I came back around the anouncement of the cartel coins just to see how many I would get, and what the rewards might be. Now, Ive been resubbed for almost a third month and have no intentions of leaving. Yes, the game was pretty weak upon release, but mmos are emergent and evolving and its no different with SWTOR. Its improved, its still improving, and will continue to do so.
Originally posted by grimal It was GW2, but it's slowly moving back to SWTOR. In a few months, people will have forgotten about GW2. But I guarentee we will still see the same hate filled posts popping up about TOR.
^This
I TOR and the hate makes me enjoy it more
Same. Its amusing to see people puking up the same drivel over and over again. Which of course is followed by a few sentences justifying their opinion by saying something like "ive played since beta" or someo other nonsense. I received the game last christmas, played for about a month, and quit. I didnt like it very much. I came back around the anouncement of the cartel coins just to see how many I would get, and what the rewards might be. Now, Ive been resubbed for almost a third month and have no intentions of leaving. Yes, the game was pretty weak upon release, but mmos are emergent and evolving and its no different with SWTOR. Its improved, its still improving, and will continue to do so.
In terms of PvP no........
The amount of content put out is improving. My friends came back for the content and I just followed suit.
Looking at: The Repopulation Preordering: None Playing: Random Games
It's a niche game, with extremists on both ends. Polarization at its peak. I really enjoy the love/hate - evil grin.
Now as for SWTOR... well, indeed it has gathered a crowd from both sides... oh wait, not both, mainly the haters.
That is probably because so many people bought into it at the beginning and then got disappointed... Tremble at the wrath of a disappointed SW fan!! (I know, cause I am one myself, you don't want to hear my bitchin' about the new movies).
On the other hand, GW2... well, the defendres are really aggressive indeed. The attackers are cutting some slack lately it seems. Hehe, it smells though like both are supporting their position based on the B2P and the hype. If it had a sub, we would not be talking.
But, there are some facts to bear in mind also:
SWTOR objectively failed when it lost a huge chunk of its playerbase very soon after launch.
GW2 capitalized on that
Both were hyped as hell (but which one was more hyped I wonder?)
That hype makes somepeople want to defend their positions because:
1) defender = I bought the hype, I hyped the game to my friends/everyone I know, I got the game at launch (or earlier), I LIKE IT, I love proving I was right (or did not like it, but hate admiting I was wrong) (Like myself)
2) attacker = I bought/did not buy the hype, I hyped/down-hyped the game to my friends/everyone I know, I got the game at launch (or earlier), DID NOT LIKE IT, I love proving I was right (Like myself)
Originally posted by grimal It was GW2, but it's slowly moving back to SWTOR. In a few months, people will have forgotten about GW2. But I guarentee we will still see the same hate filled posts popping up about TOR.
^This
I TOR and the hate makes me enjoy it more
Same. Its amusing to see people puking up the same drivel over and over again. Which of course is followed by a few sentences justifying their opinion by saying something like "ive played since beta" or someo other nonsense. I received the game last christmas, played for about a month, and quit. I didnt like it very much. I came back around the anouncement of the cartel coins just to see how many I would get, and what the rewards might be. Now, Ive been resubbed for almost a third month and have no intentions of leaving. Yes, the game was pretty weak upon release, but mmos are emergent and evolving and its no different with SWTOR. Its improved, its still improving, and will continue to do so.
In terms of PvP no........
The amount of content put out is improving. My friends came back for the content and I just followed suit.
Cant comment too much on PvP. Never spent a TON of time doing it in any MMO I've played. What I've played in SWTOR I have enjoyed, but from reading it seems like the general consensus is that longtime pvpers arent huge fans of what SWTOR has available. I do know that they need to offer up some more chances for open world PvP, which was always a lot of fun in WoW(back in the day). I play on a PvP server and would love to see a few more Jedi out and about to hack it up.
Comments
Your opinions differ from mine. I do not post here much anymore. I still enjoy playing SWToR. SWToR has remained number 3 on xfire's mmo list pretty since GW2 came out. The game is not perfect, but no game that you do not design yourself ever is.
I do not feel the need to bash away at other posters. I believe having a positive outlook on life leads to a lot more success in life. A great deal of what you can get accomplished depends on getting other people to do things.
I think you make a point, SWTOR isn't anything special, and the fact that it is a Star Wars title that had 100's of millions of dollars pumped into it makes it mediocrity even more glaring.
A lot of people pointed out flaws in their game design, but they claimed to know better. In the end, the fans knew better which was no real surpirse to most of us. That's why I perceive more apathy towards SWTOR than antipathy. It's not like it was...OMG THAT DIDN'T WORK! It was more like, yeah, we told them over and over but they didn't listen. Therefore in a way I think people were ready for the game to fail, not because they were necessarily hating, but after awhile if you have a certain kind of brain you can play things out in your head before even touching a game and sense if it will fail or succeed.
I don't think it is just SWTOR fans. Most people that play MMO's don't visit this or the MMO's forums from what I have found. Read one stat that says that only about 7% of those that play MMO's actually visit their own game's forums. It is one reason I rarely take as gospel when someone says the forums are valid feedback. It is ONE form of feedback but by far not the best one.
Let's party like it is 1863!
The massive success that is the scale of WoW was a unique situation and occurred over years (not 3 months). Nothing, not created by Blizzard, will be able to do much to recreate that. But then again, they failed on Diablo 3 (imo), so perhaps they may not be able to repeat that themselves.
Of course if SWTOR wasn't soooo Themepark it would have done better :P Just being able to play a real alien would have been leaps better haha.
DAOC Live (inactive): R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R6 Healer
Lol, I have a good friend who believes that forums ruin the gaming experience. In his words, "most gaming forums are filled with angry, bitter people". The negativity is infective according to him.
The developer blogs have been an attempt to move away from the forum experience. You can now get your gaming news on the main page and never interact with the forums at all. The developer blogs are an attempt to present the updates for the game in a more positive environment.
No fate but what we make, so make me a ham sandwich please.
Really? You wouldn't know it by all the bile you see in every SWTOR thread that pops up. I'd give GW2 a close 2nd though.
I really like both games myself but then again..I'm fairly easy to please. I never hype myself up to the point of developing fantastical expectations of upcoming MMOs/video games.
I would say its TSW. That is really a love it or hate it game. Tor is a WoW clone with a SW face, that's not something people argue about.
But TSW. You either think the game is great and point to a few features or hate it and point to a few features.
I'm beginning to believe the same as your good friend and almost miss the days when reviews were only found in EGM or similar game magazines with nothing but a letters page from the fans/playerbase.
I miss those days as well. I remember picking up an issue of both EGM and Gamepro every month for years. I loved reading all of the letters. The reviews were quite helpful and saved my parents (and down the line, myself) a lot of money. Games that sucked actually received scores that reflected their lack of quality.
We have gained so much since the birth of the internet, but at the same time, so much has been lost.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
I disagree.
It easily goes to GW2. Even at release, most people who enjoyed the TOR didn't say it was the greatest game ever and you must play it. Sure hard, rude criticism sparked flame wars. But any game has that happen to it.
As was said, there are plenty of people who play and enjoy SW. But they don't cling to some stupid hope that this is the greatest game ever and that there are no problems. (content, pvp, no end game, TERRIBLE FREAKING ART ON END GAME SETS WTF). They just enjoy the game and Star Wars.
Yet on this forum, there are people who still believe gw2 is the second coming and the slightest fault against it, is a sin against Odin.
Many people started hating on TOR before any videos were released because 'It wasn't swg2!!!111". It was accepted to be bad before the game release. Thus when it did, people weren't doing what they did with gw2 currently. They knew they wouldn't like tor before hand, but claimed gw2 was going to be amazing. And now so many found out the truth.
I see much more polarizing of GW2, but yet more posts about TOR. Weird!
This topic used to have it's determined anti-squad, but most of them moved along ages ago.
Fresh alts, and off to working on the next game down the list.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Actually it was 860 millions. When I want news I don't look at forums. news here are distorted. If I want SWTOR news I got to google and type swtor news /grin... same about other stuff.
And this SWTOR forum is biased so badly I would not recommend it to anybody to get information other than posts from MMORPG staff. I think the only reason I am here is that I do not think it is fair to this awesome game to be so distorted and hated. So I try to bring some balance. And I am glad I am not the only one. Thanks to all who are friends of SWTOR
Sith Warrior - Story of Hate and Love http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxKrlwXt7Ao
Imperial Agent - Rise of Cipher Nine http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBBj3eJWBvU&feature=youtu.be
Imperial Agent - Hunt for the Eagle Part 1http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQqjYYU128E
This.
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.
TSW by far. all fans of it praise it to the same delusional degree(literlally every fan here) while everyone else sees it as trash, not just a meh game but a horrible one.
even SWTOR and GW2 always had and still have many different levels of good/bad opinion. with TSw it's either you have it on a pedestal or you crap on it...nothing in between. the only one here who even pretended to be in between can't hide the fact that he worships it now.
Cool story. MMORPG.com has a systemic hatred of SWTOR and the fact that it has never been added to the list of free to play MMO's on the side bar is proof. MMORPG.com is where the vast majority of trolls on the SWTOR forums come from and are generally the center of SWG sanbox love.
Clearly the SWTOR defense team needs some new recruits so...
here I be. Game is fun. Yes, it is.
Did it meet expectations? No. Have any of the big titles? Nerp. Was that even possible? Nope.
Good game, playing and will continue to play. They have a lot of room for improvement but as long as we see growth, I'm good with it.
Oh and to respond to the actual purpose of this thread...lol...I would say GW2 is more polarizing, as yes, the majority of the community do seem to dislike the old republic outright(wonder how many actually played??), while GW2 opinions seem to come from both ends of the spectrum.
Pretty much spoken already. SWTOR is pretty much looked down upon by a large majority. Gw2 is the golden game where people stand at one side or the other. Though I can admit SWTOR was more appealing to me then GW2... what, sorry if it was it just felt better playing it to me and more entertaining!
Both games have their own audience and both have their flaws, many flaws at that.
^This
I
TOR and the hate makes me enjoy it more
Same. Its amusing to see people puking up the same drivel over and over again. Which of course is followed by a few sentences justifying their opinion by saying something like "ive played since beta" or someo other nonsense. I received the game last christmas, played for about a month, and quit. I didnt like it very much. I came back around the anouncement of the cartel coins just to see how many I would get, and what the rewards might be. Now, Ive been resubbed for almost a third month and have no intentions of leaving. Yes, the game was pretty weak upon release, but mmos are emergent and evolving and its no different with SWTOR. Its improved, its still improving, and will continue to do so.
In terms of PvP no........
The amount of content put out is improving. My friends came back for the content and I just followed suit.
Looking at: The Repopulation
Preordering: None
Playing: Random Games
I think I will go for Darkfall
It's a niche game, with extremists on both ends. Polarization at its peak. I really enjoy the love/hate - evil grin.
Now as for SWTOR... well, indeed it has gathered a crowd from both sides... oh wait, not both, mainly the haters.
That is probably because so many people bought into it at the beginning and then got disappointed... Tremble at the wrath of a disappointed SW fan!! (I know, cause I am one myself, you don't want to hear my bitchin' about the new movies).
On the other hand, GW2... well, the defendres are really aggressive indeed. The attackers are cutting some slack lately it seems. Hehe, it smells though like both are supporting their position based on the B2P and the hype. If it had a sub, we would not be talking.
But, there are some facts to bear in mind also:
SWTOR objectively failed when it lost a huge chunk of its playerbase very soon after launch.
GW2 capitalized on that
Both were hyped as hell (but which one was more hyped I wonder?)
That hype makes somepeople want to defend their positions because:
1) defender = I bought the hype, I hyped the game to my friends/everyone I know, I got the game at launch (or earlier), I LIKE IT, I love proving I was right (or did not like it, but hate admiting I was wrong) (Like myself)
2) attacker = I bought/did not buy the hype, I hyped/down-hyped the game to my friends/everyone I know, I got the game at launch (or earlier), DID NOT LIKE IT, I love proving I was right (Like myself)
Cant comment too much on PvP. Never spent a TON of time doing it in any MMO I've played. What I've played in SWTOR I have enjoyed, but from reading it seems like the general consensus is that longtime pvpers arent huge fans of what SWTOR has available. I do know that they need to offer up some more chances for open world PvP, which was always a lot of fun in WoW(back in the day). I play on a PvP server and would love to see a few more Jedi out and about to hack it up.