There were crappy movies, crappy music, crappy books in the past. We just remember the classics.
I honestly think more bad things come out. Publishers used to guarantee that a book was of a certain standard, now anyone can write something and publish it on Kindle.
Not really (regarding the publisher), there were good ones, bad ones, cheap ones, sophisticated ones. All they were concerned about was was there enough demand to justify printing it. And there were enough publishers to make standards non-existant. And of course there has been self-publishing options since.... well since the printing press was first invented.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
I think the problem is you not the games. I started to play MMO's for about 1 year ago, and I was completly hooked right away. I think MMO's are much more fun than singel player games. Now i wont play anything else, and i sometimes skip work, meals, friends, and life in general just to play. I think this euphoria is an effect that will fade with time. I bet I feel the same now, as you guys did when playing EQ1 back in the day. Its fair to asume that I wont be feeling this way forever. I hope I do though:)
I agree and have been stating that for a long time. New games are just as exciting and addicting as old games. However we (meaning many of us) are just used to the way we interact with MMO's. We need a new method of interacting.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
There were crappy movies, crappy music, crappy books in the past. We just remember the classics.
I honestly think more bad things come out. Publishers used to guarantee that a book was of a certain standard, now anyone can write something and publish it on Kindle.
And more good things coming out. There are MORE good military sci-fi to read now than when i was in college more than 20 years ago.
Sure there is more crap .. you just have to filter them. But the absolute amount of good stuff is going up .. which is all that matters.
4 I'm glad I can watch what I like and not face censorship "for my own good" from the nanny state 8 radio 6 enough said 9 in the usa, you guys have your values all wrong
MMOs keep moing toward stripped down experiences. Problem is they don't have the action that other games incorporate so MMORPGs are now simply quest hubs with boring tab and target combat (no world, few systems, egalitarian loot systems). New combat styles don't seem to work either commercially, so I dont know how this will get better. I am semi-hopeful for EQNext but I'm pretty sure it will be a let down too.
the problem here is your a Vetrain liek the most of us including me....and all the mmo's released recently do not appeal to us cuz were used to the old ways of mmoing...or as i like to call us "the Non-lazy generation"
MMO's that have been released are all dummed down to the point where they are boring as fuck and mainly have no work required to them. Take WoW for instance used to take MONTHS to lvl to max lvl back in vanilla and had to explore the world, now you can get to max lvl within 1-2 weeks and dont even have to leave main cities or do anything....
The MMO's as We the Vetrains know of is Dead...long live the age of dummed down MMO's for the childish generation.
Sumtimes i wish i was born in thr 60's. or 70's....back when things were real and manly...
Im gonna look at maybe a console game or two, I've already decided to just play single player rpg's for now except for Star Citizen and maybe WildStar. I will get in Feb Sony all Access pass for eq2 and ps2. Im pretty much done with anything else.
" Life Liberty and the Pursuit of Those Who Would Threaten It " MAGA
the problem here is your a Vetrain liek the most of us including me....and all the mmo's released recently do not appeal to us cuz were used to the old ways of mmoing...or as i like to call us "the Non-lazy generation"
MMO's that have been released are all dummed down to the point where they are boring as fuck and mainly have no work required to them. Take WoW for instance used to take MONTHS to lvl to max lvl back in vanilla and had to explore the world, now you can get to max lvl within 1-2 weeks and dont even have to leave main cities or do anything....
The MMO's as We the Vetrains know of is Dead...long live the age of dummed down MMO's for the childish generation.
Sumtimes i wish i was born in thr 60's. or 70's....back when things were real and manly...
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
SWTOR, FFXIV, Darkfall, TSW, and Tabula Rasa were all some of the most highly anticipated games for the MMO community. Two of these are being remade, two have gone from having a high population to a low population and scrapped their monthly subscriptions, and one just shut down. How can you possibly be hopeful for the future?
MMOs keep moing toward stripped down experiences. Problem is they don't have the action that other games incorporate so MMORPGs are now simply quest hubs with boring tab and target combat (no world, few systems, egalitarian loot systems). New combat styles don't seem to work either commercially, so I dont know how this will get better. I am semi-hopeful for EQNext but I'm pretty sure it will be a let down too.
That is the issue .. you restrict yourself to MMORPGs. There are MMOFPS (like PS2) that are not boring tab & target combat.
Or you can play online action RPG like D3, which has much better combat. Marvel Heroes, a new F2P MMO, is also going to have action diablo type combat.
It is getting good, as long as you consider similar to, but strictly not MMOs. There are also RTS combat games, like LOL, and vehicle action combat onlinge games like WOT and MWO.
The number one problem with MMORPG games is that they are boring, and only retain players through some sort of reward system. Tab targetting stationary targets is pretty lame in my opinion. Running around between exclamation points is even more lame. Having to kill 10 standingstillstupidthings for a quest is beyond lame. I don't know how these type of games keep players and I haven stopped trying to figure it out.
In order to really get me interested an MMORPG needs the following:
Exciting and fun twitch based combat
A very real sense of danger/risk versus reward
Open FFA/PVP with meaningful consequences
A good balance of Carrot AND Stick
Good graphics/sounds creating a vivid experience
Light on the grinding heavy on the killing other players
Some games have come close but I can't think of any game that has ever truly satisified all of these. I'm hoping Wizardry Online can or maybe Dark Fall Unholy Wars (doubtful on this one). Planetside 2 or EVE are decent.
Are you a Pavlovian Fish Biscuit Addict? Get Help Now! I will play no more MMORPGs until somethign good comes out!
MMOs keep moing toward stripped down experiences. Problem is they don't have the action that other games incorporate so MMORPGs are now simply quest hubs with boring tab and target combat (no world, few systems, egalitarian loot systems). New combat styles don't seem to work either commercially, so I dont know how this will get better. I am semi-hopeful for EQNext but I'm pretty sure it will be a let down too.
That is the issue .. you restrict yourself to MMORPGs. There are MMOFPS (like PS2) that are not boring tab & target combat.
Or you can play online action RPG like D3, which has much better combat. Marvel Heroes, a new F2P MMO, is also going to have action diablo type combat.
It is getting good, as long as you consider similar to, but strictly not MMOs. There are also RTS combat games, like LOL, and vehicle action combat onlinge games like WOT and MWO.
Who said anything about self-restriction? There are many people (myself included) that play video games from other genres in addition to playing MMOs. Why do you make such an assumption? Remember we are on site for MMORPGs and that's what people are here to discuss.
Anyways, I think he's right.
It's funny, you know. It's almost as if MMOs are following in the footsteps of cell phones; they can take pictures and video but for the most part the quality is terrible. You can use the internet but the experience is even more terrible. You even have a "worse than a clock radio speaker" driver built in. But, unlike MMOs, at least you can still do what the device was originally intended for: make a phone call.
Note: this is just a simple analogy, mmorpg.comers. I know some of you out there like to think you're clever when tearing them apart. So, here's the definition of analogy to help calm all those who want to play smarty pants: "Similarity in some respects between things that are otherwise dissimilar". That's it guys. So put the analogy cutters down and relax
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
MMOs keep moing toward stripped down experiences. Problem is they don't have the action that other games incorporate so MMORPGs are now simply quest hubs with boring tab and target combat (no world, few systems, egalitarian loot systems). New combat styles don't seem to work either commercially, so I dont know how this will get better. I am semi-hopeful for EQNext but I'm pretty sure it will be a let down too.
That is the issue .. you restrict yourself to MMORPGs. There are MMOFPS (like PS2) that are not boring tab & target combat.
Or you can play online action RPG like D3, which has much better combat. Marvel Heroes, a new F2P MMO, is also going to have action diablo type combat.
It is getting good, as long as you consider similar to, but strictly not MMOs. There are also RTS combat games, like LOL, and vehicle action combat onlinge games like WOT and MWO.
Who said anything about self-restriction? There are many people (myself included) that play video games from other genres in addition to playing MMOs. Why do you make such an assumption? Remember we are on site for MMORPGs and that's what people are here to discuss.
Anyways, I think he's right.
It's funny, you know. It's almost as if MMOs are following in the footsteps of cell phones; they can take pictures and video but for the most part the quality is terrible. You can use the internet but the experience is even more terrible. You even have a "worse than a clock radio speaker" driver built in. But, unlike MMOs, at least you can still do what the device was originally intended for: make a phone call.
Note: this is just a simple analogy, mmorpg.comers. I know some of you out there like to think you're clever when tearing them apart. So, here's the definition of analogy to help calm all those who want to play smarty pants: "Similarity in some respects between things that are otherwise dissimilar". That's it guys. So put the analogy cutters down and relax
MMOs keep moing toward stripped down experiences. Problem is they don't have the action that other games incorporate so MMORPGs are now simply quest hubs with boring tab and target combat (no world, few systems, egalitarian loot systems). New combat styles don't seem to work either commercially, so I dont know how this will get better. I am semi-hopeful for EQNext but I'm pretty sure it will be a let down too.
That is the issue .. you restrict yourself to MMORPGs. There are MMOFPS (like PS2) that are not boring tab & target combat.
Or you can play online action RPG like D3, which has much better combat. Marvel Heroes, a new F2P MMO, is also going to have action diablo type combat.
It is getting good, as long as you consider similar to, but strictly not MMOs. There are also RTS combat games, like LOL, and vehicle action combat onlinge games like WOT and MWO.
This is true , and I should have added that I do enjoy those other game types. If you include those I am more hopeful, but as for the MMORPGs I just don't know.
MMOs keep moing toward stripped down experiences. Problem is they don't have the action that other games incorporate so MMORPGs are now simply quest hubs with boring tab and target combat (no world, few systems, egalitarian loot systems). New combat styles don't seem to work either commercially, so I dont know how this will get better. I am semi-hopeful for EQNext but I'm pretty sure it will be a let down too.
That is the issue .. you restrict yourself to MMORPGs. There are MMOFPS (like PS2) that are not boring tab & target combat.
Or you can play online action RPG like D3, which has much better combat. Marvel Heroes, a new F2P MMO, is also going to have action diablo type combat.
It is getting good, as long as you consider similar to, but strictly not MMOs. There are also RTS combat games, like LOL, and vehicle action combat onlinge games like WOT and MWO.
This is true , and I should have added that I do enjoy those other game types. If you include those I am more hopeful, but as for the MMORPGs I just don't know.
Sure. And that is the point. MMORPGs is just a slice (even a small slice) of gaming. I highly doubt, even here, there are many that won't play other games.
And there are also many type of games that are close to, but strictly speaking not MMOs. I doubt most people make that distinction. Even marketing research of the MMO market will include games like LOL and WOT.
From my perspective, having grown up in the 70's and 80's, gaming has never been better. I can play all my old games DRM Free (no disc, no copy protection) through GoG.com (no more having to screw with autoexec.bat, fiddling with the sys file to manage upper memory, no more sound driver issues). I have more sub free options in gaming than ever before and more games than I have time to play.
P.S. It's the last day you can get Duke Nukem 3D from GoG for free.
I agree.
Particularly lots of new game types and good games in the online space. There are a lot of indie dev.
I started on my Apple 2+ roughly around Ultima 3 time .. and today i am having much more fun than then.
MMOs, when you really think about it, are pretty awful video games. They're laggy out of necessity. The content is fairly repetitive and uninspired most of the time. The treadmill structure is a transparent money grab, even with FTP models. What really makes them a marvelous genre is the fact that you have to play with other people. Unfortunately, modern MMOs create an environment where you don't really have to cooperate with anyone ever if you don't want to.
Sure, forced grouping was a PITA. Excessive downtime was a PITA. Large death penalties were a huge PITA. But they forced a sense of community onto a bunch of strangers, which made the games memorable and fun. MMO developers don't seem to really be trying to do that anymore, and I'm probably too old to be making new friends on the internet anyway.
So, I just make do with the new, slick pap that gets churned out. It comes almost too fast to keep track of. The new MMO titles of 2012 have buzzed by, and I can barely remember most of them. 2013 will probably be even busier.
I don't mean to make the old, non-solo MMOs out to be some kind of heaven. They tended to be elitist, cloistered, stressful communities infatuated with getting better loot or being seen as "the best" at....whatever. Still, they were communities. I always put off the neurotic nature of those communities to the character of the members rather than the MMO they happened to inhabit.
So, no, I do not see much improvement in the MMO genre if you long for older titles. They don't sell as well, so nobody really makes them. Those older titles were successful because there were fewer options. About the only one left that's still active is EVE Online, but it's pretty hard to break into. It can get somewhat cliqueish.
It will be allright people. Currently we are going through what rock experienced during the 80 after an initial rush followed by big profits: ridiculous, artificially formed and hollow bands with impressive hairs and silly clothes oozing from every media orifice due to having attracted the attention of business world. Over time, the emperor's clothes will be revealed for what they are.
Originally posted by DancingQueen Greetings and salutations my good hobbit and about future games that you might want to play: EverQuest Next, The Elder Scrolls Online and Neverwinter.
I am a hobbit...And so is my wife!
(sorry, couldn't resist a chance to combine my two favorites)
Allow me to sharpen my original post. Yes I do play other types of pc games. I am a big fan of fantsy rpg(diablo1&2, dung siege1, eld scr oblivion, skyrim, etc) But these types of games are not my favorite. MMORPG's are! Specifically high fantasy and sci fi based. Yes I have played mmo's like ps2 and 1, lol, sec wrld, etc, but these games imo are just not very fun.
One poster in this thread talked about how when WoW first came out and through mid to late burning crusade that it took months to reach max level. That is the experiance I am talking about. And it wasnt that you couldnt level fast if u needed to(although without boa gear and guild bonusses it was harder), it was that because the way the game was made and how fantastic everything around u was, you didnt want to level fast. You wanted to experiance everything! That is the type of mmo I am looking for in the future. I have hopes for TESO and possibly Neverwinter.
And NO I DO NOT LIKE CONSOLES.(not since original nentendo)
I AM A TRUE PC GAMER
any hobbit ladys out there looking for a hot hairy footed fella?
I am a vet of mmo's. and by vet I have been playing hardcore to subs and ftp models since ultima. But now it just seems like everything is a complete let down that comes out. This is of course my own opinion. Are there others out there who feel the same way? WoW got boring after BC(although I still log in evry now and then), SWTOR just broke my damn heart, DDO is the same buggy crap it always was as well as LOTRO, EQ is outdated and just a forerunner of WoW, GW1&2 well they are what they are and I hate pvp so they mean little to me even though iI put 300 hrs in GW1, AOC just failed hard, Vanguard broke a lil piece of my heart, and Rift was just way to repetative for me and kinda lame imo.
What does the future hold for us old vets? Was the classic days of DAOC and early WoW and EQ the best we will have ever played....I guess I am asking a question there is no real answer to untill more games come out but I am just bummed. I really have nothing to play any more...
Feel free to pick me apart and spit me out like the trolls always do but if there are any who feel like I do lets have a intelligent conversation about this
are you playing games or nitpicking them? It seems too many people are just looking for issues to complain about.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Comments
Not really (regarding the publisher), there were good ones, bad ones, cheap ones, sophisticated ones. All they were concerned about was was there enough demand to justify printing it. And there were enough publishers to make standards non-existant. And of course there has been self-publishing options since.... well since the printing press was first invented.
I agree and have been stating that for a long time. New games are just as exciting and addicting as old games. However we (meaning many of us) are just used to the way we interact with MMO's. We need a new method of interacting.
And more good things coming out. There are MORE good military sci-fi to read now than when i was in college more than 20 years ago.
Sure there is more crap .. you just have to filter them. But the absolute amount of good stuff is going up .. which is all that matters.
8 radio 6 enough said
9 in the usa, you guys have your values all wrong
There is no wrong values .. just different ones.
MMOs keep moing toward stripped down experiences. Problem is they don't have the action that other games incorporate so MMORPGs are now simply quest hubs with boring tab and target combat (no world, few systems, egalitarian loot systems). New combat styles don't seem to work either commercially, so I dont know how this will get better. I am semi-hopeful for EQNext but I'm pretty sure it will be a let down too.
Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011
the problem here is your a Vetrain liek the most of us including me....and all the mmo's released recently do not appeal to us cuz were used to the old ways of mmoing...or as i like to call us "the Non-lazy generation"
MMO's that have been released are all dummed down to the point where they are boring as fuck and mainly have no work required to them. Take WoW for instance used to take MONTHS to lvl to max lvl back in vanilla and had to explore the world, now you can get to max lvl within 1-2 weeks and dont even have to leave main cities or do anything....
The MMO's as We the Vetrains know of is Dead...long live the age of dummed down MMO's for the childish generation.
Sumtimes i wish i was born in thr 60's. or 70's....back when things were real and manly...
Im gonna look at maybe a console game or two, I've already decided to just play single player rpg's for now except for Star Citizen and maybe WildStar. I will get in Feb Sony all Access pass for eq2 and ps2. Im pretty much done with anything else.
MAGA
That is the issue .. you restrict yourself to MMORPGs. There are MMOFPS (like PS2) that are not boring tab & target combat.
Or you can play online action RPG like D3, which has much better combat. Marvel Heroes, a new F2P MMO, is also going to have action diablo type combat.
It is getting good, as long as you consider similar to, but strictly not MMOs. There are also RTS combat games, like LOL, and vehicle action combat onlinge games like WOT and MWO.
The number one problem with MMORPG games is that they are boring, and only retain players through some sort of reward system. Tab targetting stationary targets is pretty lame in my opinion. Running around between exclamation points is even more lame. Having to kill 10 standingstillstupidthings for a quest is beyond lame. I don't know how these type of games keep players and I haven stopped trying to figure it out.
In order to really get me interested an MMORPG needs the following:
Exciting and fun twitch based combat
A very real sense of danger/risk versus reward
Open FFA/PVP with meaningful consequences
A good balance of Carrot AND Stick
Good graphics/sounds creating a vivid experience
Light on the grinding heavy on the killing other players
Some games have come close but I can't think of any game that has ever truly satisified all of these. I'm hoping Wizardry Online can or maybe Dark Fall Unholy Wars (doubtful on this one). Planetside 2 or EVE are decent.
Are you a Pavlovian Fish Biscuit Addict? Get Help Now!
I will play no more MMORPGs until somethign good comes out!
Who said anything about self-restriction? There are many people (myself included) that play video games from other genres in addition to playing MMOs. Why do you make such an assumption? Remember we are on site for MMORPGs and that's what people are here to discuss.
Anyways, I think he's right.
It's funny, you know. It's almost as if MMOs are following in the footsteps of cell phones; they can take pictures and video but for the most part the quality is terrible. You can use the internet but the experience is even more terrible. You even have a "worse than a clock radio speaker" driver built in. But, unlike MMOs, at least you can still do what the device was originally intended for: make a phone call.
Note: this is just a simple analogy, mmorpg.comers. I know some of you out there like to think you're clever when tearing them apart. So, here's the definition of analogy to help calm all those who want to play smarty pants: "Similarity in some respects between things that are otherwise dissimilar". That's it guys. So put the analogy cutters down and relax
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Someone i can talk to
This is true
, and I should have added that I do enjoy those other game types. If you include those I am more hopeful, but as for the MMORPGs I just don't know.
Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011
Sure. And that is the point. MMORPGs is just a slice (even a small slice) of gaming. I highly doubt, even here, there are many that won't play other games.
And there are also many type of games that are close to, but strictly speaking not MMOs. I doubt most people make that distinction. Even marketing research of the MMO market will include games like LOL and WOT.
I agree.
Particularly lots of new game types and good games in the online space. There are a lot of indie dev.
I started on my Apple 2+ roughly around Ultima 3 time .. and today i am having much more fun than then.
MMOs, when you really think about it, are pretty awful video games. They're laggy out of necessity. The content is fairly repetitive and uninspired most of the time. The treadmill structure is a transparent money grab, even with FTP models. What really makes them a marvelous genre is the fact that you have to play with other people. Unfortunately, modern MMOs create an environment where you don't really have to cooperate with anyone ever if you don't want to.
Sure, forced grouping was a PITA. Excessive downtime was a PITA. Large death penalties were a huge PITA. But they forced a sense of community onto a bunch of strangers, which made the games memorable and fun. MMO developers don't seem to really be trying to do that anymore, and I'm probably too old to be making new friends on the internet anyway.
So, I just make do with the new, slick pap that gets churned out. It comes almost too fast to keep track of. The new MMO titles of 2012 have buzzed by, and I can barely remember most of them. 2013 will probably be even busier.
I don't mean to make the old, non-solo MMOs out to be some kind of heaven. They tended to be elitist, cloistered, stressful communities infatuated with getting better loot or being seen as "the best" at....whatever. Still, they were communities. I always put off the neurotic nature of those communities to the character of the members rather than the MMO they happened to inhabit.
So, no, I do not see much improvement in the MMO genre if you long for older titles. They don't sell as well, so nobody really makes them. Those older titles were successful because there were fewer options. About the only one left that's still active is EVE Online, but it's pretty hard to break into. It can get somewhat cliqueish.
I am a hobbit...And so is my wife!
(sorry, couldn't resist a chance to combine my two favorites)
Allow me to sharpen my original post. Yes I do play other types of pc games. I am a big fan of fantsy rpg(diablo1&2, dung siege1, eld scr oblivion, skyrim, etc) But these types of games are not my favorite. MMORPG's are! Specifically high fantasy and sci fi based. Yes I have played mmo's like ps2 and 1, lol, sec wrld, etc, but these games imo are just not very fun.
One poster in this thread talked about how when WoW first came out and through mid to late burning crusade that it took months to reach max level. That is the experiance I am talking about. And it wasnt that you couldnt level fast if u needed to(although without boa gear and guild bonusses it was harder), it was that because the way the game was made and how fantastic everything around u was, you didnt want to level fast. You wanted to experiance everything! That is the type of mmo I am looking for in the future. I have hopes for TESO and possibly Neverwinter.
And NO I DO NOT LIKE CONSOLES.(not since original nentendo)
I AM A TRUE PC GAMER
any hobbit ladys out there looking for a hot hairy footed fella?
I miss the massive in MMO.
are you playing games or nitpicking them? It seems too many people are just looking for issues to complain about.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Yes I play them bro. 8 yrs off and on of WoW 2 yrs of gw1, ddo 2 yrs, lotro 1 yr, ps1 1yr, tsw 100hrs, swtor 10 months, etc etc etc
the truth is todays mmo market is not the awe inspired challenge of yesteryears mmo market
I miss the massive in MMO.