On the fence

Nierro · December 2012

Hello,

I've been looking for a new MMO in my life for quite a while now. I quit WoW several years ago, after having played DAoC on and off since my childhood. My open-world PvP experiences in WoW were by far the most enjoyable experiences I had in that game. I pre-ordered and was quickly disillusioned by GW2, which I had tentatively hoped would satisfy a longing for intentse RvR combat and meaningful PvP. I quit soon after release.

Now any cohesive sandbox(ish?) PvP-oriented MMO is bound to catch my attention, but the cursory research I've done on DF:UO has left me with some reservations and I vowed not to pre-order another MMO after my disappointment with GW2. I'm fine with the graphics- my computer is only borderline function as it is- but the animations seem seriously clunky compared with the fluidity of the combat I found in GW2, and I'm worried that it would put me at a disadvantage in combat. Additionally I'm not sure if the combat itself is as polished as I would like it to be. Again; I have only done cursory research and don't know anything about the combat system. I would really appreciate it if someone could explain the pros and cons of it to me.

Another concern I have is with how "fair" PvP encounters tend to be. Because the death penalty is unforgiving, questions about balance are important to me. As I eke out my way as a noob in Agon (or whatever the game world is called), at how much of a disadvantage will I be? Does gear or level determine the outcome of fights, or is it pure skill? Are classes and skills relatively balanced?

From some player PvP videos I've seen, the game looks pretty awesome. I love the idea of randomly encountering someone, killing them, and taking their gear.

Thanks.

muffins89 · December 2012

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/371398/page/1

listen to that podcast.

Raventree · December 2012

I am with you, OP. I have been searching for an equivalent RVR fix since DAoC and have never really found it. I am eyeing this game with mixed feelings as well.

I sort of get the impression this is like a fantasy version of Eve. Any vets care to comment on that?

Edit: Maybe I'll start a post and ask them.

Zushakon · December 2012

I feel that I and others will be able to give you a lot more detailed information after beta goes live on Monday. Many of the things you touch upon such as balance and combat have been completely reworked more or less with the introduction of roles and other things.

Edit: Hmm, It's more PvP oriented and less economy driven than EVE I would say. The combat and PVP in DF could get wonderfully intense and were definietly the best combat experience I've had in an MMORPG by leaps and bounds. Sadly on the other hand the economy and crafting bit left a lot to wish for, something I would they look into, but nothing game-breaking.

Melkrow · December 2012

Originally posted by Nierro
Hello,

I've been looking for a new MMO in my life for quite a while now. I quit WoW several years ago, after having played DAoC on and off since my childhood. My open-world PvP experiences in WoW were by far the most enjoyable experiences I had in that game. I pre-ordered and was quickly disillusioned by GW2, which I had tentatively hoped would satisfy a longing for intentse RvR combat and meaningful PvP. I quit soon after release.

Now any cohesive sandbox(ish?) PvP-oriented MMO is bound to catch my attention, but the cursory research I've done on DF:UO has left me with some reservations and I vowed not to pre-order another MMO after my disappointment with GW2. I'm fine with the graphics- my computer is only borderline function as it is- but the animations seem seriously clunky compared with the fluidity of the combat I found in GW2, and I'm worried that it would put me at a disadvantage in combat. Additionally I'm not sure if the combat itself is as polished as I would like it to be. Again; I have only done cursory research and don't know anything about the combat system. I would really appreciate it if someone could explain the pros and cons of it to me.

Another concern I have is with how "fair" PvP encounters tend to be. Because the death penalty is unforgiving, questions about balance are important to me. As I eke out my way as a noob in Agon (or whatever the game world is called), at how much of a disadvantage will I be? Does gear or level determine the outcome of fights, or is it pure skill? Are classes and skills relatively balanced?

From some player PvP videos I've seen, the game looks pretty awesome. I love the idea of randomly encountering someone, killing them, and taking their gear.

Thanks.

I'm not sure what do you mean animations will put you at a disadvantage. Animations are the same for everybody. On the subject of animations, it's not AV's strong side, but it's not terribe. After a day or two, it feels natural and you become blind to the clukiness.

We don't know how "balanced" the combat will be with the new role systems. But, since everbody can switch up to be whatever they want, the balance is immenent. If something is overpowered and everybody uses it, you know they will nerf it, if there is something that nobody uses, you know they will buff it. Eventually, there will be balance if it's not balanced right now (we don't know).

As far as combat goes, it's like nothing you've played before, and it's awesome. Darkfall Engine is simply amazing, the combat feels familiar, it feels good, it feels natural, there's nothing clunky about it, very smooth. It's highly skill based (as in player skill) because it is a first person shooter, but on top of that, you have your standard RPG elements, so it's very very complex. Think of it as if it was call of duty, or any other shooter game, but instead of using a gun or two and mostly spamming left click while aiming, you had to load different ammo types after each shot, use many different granades, switch to different weapons, manage cooldown, manage your vitals via heals and trasfers, use swords instead of knives, add real physics to movement, all meanwhile having to actually aim, and account for travel speed of your spells/arrows as well as the movement speed of your opponent.

But I'll stress again, the combat is very smooth, it just feels natural the way it plays. So when you take all that into account, player skill goes a long way.

Now, gear does matter. It's not end-all-be-all, but it is certainly an important factor. Yes of course you have people with no armor and the worst weapons in the game kill people in top notch gear in an otherwise fair fight, but these scenarios don't happen that often, as soon as you run into average player, you will feel the gear difference if you happen to be dressed as a scrub (not that you can't win, it's just gonna be really hard and unlikely).

Another thing that comes into play in combat is skills (characater skills). This too is pretty important factor in combat. There are no levels in Darkfall, it's a skill based game. This means that your character doesn't level, but your skills do. When you use a certain skill, then it levels up, the more you use it, the more it will level up until it is maxed out.

If I had ot give my honest opinion about combat, I would say that the outcome of a regular engagement will depend 40-50% player skill, 20-30% gear, 20-30% character skills and 5-10% luck and other uncontrolable factors. Player skill is the most important one, it has many factors within itself, including aim, spatial awareness, stat management, terrain knowledge, general game knowledge, knowing what spells/skills to use against whom and when.

I love the idea of randomly encountering someone, killing them, and taking their gear.

See, now when you said that, it prompted me to respond to your questions. It's attitude like that which will make you fall in love with the game. A lot of people say instead of "I will kill somebody and take their loot", they say "I don't want to get killed and lose my loot". You seem to have the right attitude for the game, so I really suggest you check it out. Worst case scenario, you will waste another $30 on yet another game. Best case scenario, you will find the game you've been looking for for years.

Badaboom · December 2012

I posted this in another thread but it was quickly buried so you may find it of interest:

Let me tell you guys a story I experienced in Darkfall 1. I was out farming some mobs on the ice island (Niflheim) which our alliance controlled the eastern side. There was some troublesome enemies that lived in some of the villages and chaos city nearby and they would occasionally organize and come raid our cities. Anyways, I was farming some dwarves for about an hour and had a decent amount of gold when a rare chest key dropped. I think it was about a 2000 gold value. So I decide to head back and along the way I spot a chaos chest a little ways away. These are random chest around the world which normally contain minimal gold etc, but there is a chance of rare items. I look in my bag and see that I got a large villa deed which is a large house. Now my heart is racing. I've got my head phones on full blast now. I hear hoof beats in the distance and look around and spot two riders. They spot me and turn in my direction. I hop back on my mount and start making for the straightest route to our city with two of them right on my tail. I open the gate of our city and barrel straight toward the bank and deposit my gold, keys and deed in the bank. They did not follow me.

It was moments like this that make darkfall special. I have many more stories of great loss and gains. No other game that I have ever played has given me so many great memories.

In The end it was just the grind that got to me, so if that is fixed we are in for a treat.

Ps: I never did find an available spot for my house deed and when I was ready to leave for good I raided an enemy city with the deed on me. I put up a good fight but was eventually swarmed. I made the day of the person who looted me.

BuniontToes · December 2012

DFO is not RvR. it is MUCH, MUCH more intense.

In RvR you lose nothing and half of it is PvDoor. FFA PvP with territory conquest your clan lives somewhere and must defend it or you find another home.

There is no tab target. period.

This makes comabt chest pumping and fast. I won't mention the fact that the first corpse run I did in DFO beta was the first time I had excitment in a video game since AC-DT.

BuniontToes · December 2012

The above said wait for release and don;t pre-order. If you don;t know what you are getting into then you shouldn't beta test this game.

Raapnaap · December 2012

Darkfall's clan warfare 'metagame' is nothing like RvR in games like GW2 where you just zerg meaningless holdings with meaningless ownerships.

Property has a lot more value in Darkfall because it takes work to obtain, defend, and build. You can't lose it to a nameless zerg in a matter of minutes, it takes preparation, logistics, and God forbid, tactics to win fights in Darkfall. Sieges take hours to prepare (for veterans, it can take longer) in terms of planning, organising your forces, getting resources, ect. Siege declarations themselves, when dropped, give the defenders 24 hours to prepare a defense. Anything could happen.

You won't be able to enjoy "RvR" meaningless instant-action games once you properly got a taste of Darkfalls PERSISTENT (as in it doesn't reset every freakin' week) and meaningfull conquest system.

Zinzan · December 2012

Originally posted by Nierro
Hello,

I've been looking for a new MMO in my life for quite a while now. I quit WoW several years ago, after having played DAoC on and off since my childhood. My open-world PvP experiences in WoW were by far the most enjoyable experiences I had in that game. I pre-ordered and was quickly disillusioned by GW2, which I had tentatively hoped would satisfy a longing for intentse RvR combat and meaningful PvP. I quit soon after release.

Now any cohesive sandbox(ish?) PvP-oriented MMO is bound to catch my attention, but the cursory research I've done on DF:UO has left me with some reservations and I vowed not to pre-order another MMO after my disappointment with GW2. I'm fine with the graphics- my computer is only borderline function as it is- but the animations seem seriously clunky compared with the fluidity of the combat I found in GW2, and I'm worried that it would put me at a disadvantage in combat. Additionally I'm not sure if the combat itself is as polished as I would like it to be. Again; I have only done cursory research and don't know anything about the combat system. I would really appreciate it if someone could explain the pros and cons of it to me.

Another concern I have is with how "fair" PvP encounters tend to be. Because the death penalty is unforgiving, questions about balance are important to me. As I eke out my way as a noob in Agon (or whatever the game world is called), at how much of a disadvantage will I be? Does gear or level determine the outcome of fights, or is it pure skill? Are classes and skills relatively balanced?

From some player PvP videos I've seen, the game looks pretty awesome. I love the idea of randomly encountering someone, killing them, and taking their gear.

Thanks.

If it's anything like DF you'll be very lucky to find anything but gank squads if you run solo, especially at low level as many of the DF "heros" like to pray on the weak.

Again, can't speak for DFUW, haven't played it nor has anyone here but if DF is anything to go by there is little "skill" to DF, just learning this games particular brand of cheese is the trick.

You really need to find and join a guild if pvp be your goal, playing solo will be painful.

Don't imagine for a second DF is anything like DAoC, it's not.

Nierro · December 2012

So after reading, listening, and watching player accounts about clan warfare and politics I've decided to give DF:UO a shot. I've seen more combat videos and am now convinced that this games offers much more than I had initially thought. The map seems huge and the overall vision and philosophy of the game resonates with me.

Thanks to everyone who responded. I'll be sending PMs to those who sympathized with my wariness and those who helped me come to the aforementioned conclusion, in the hope that I might have some supporters/allies/friends when I enter the game world.

Seelinnikoi · December 2012

Originally posted by Nierro
So after reading, listening, and watching player accounts about clan warfare and politics I've decided to give DF:UO a shot. I've seen more combat videos and am now convinced that this games offers much more than I had initially thought. The map seems huge and the overall vision and philosophy of the game resonates with me.

Thanks to everyone who responded. I'll be sending PMs to those who sympathized with my wariness and those who helped me come to the aforementioned conclusion, in the hope that I might have some supporters/allies/friends when I enter the game world.

I was in limbo just like you, but then decided to give myself a xmas present.

Cant wait to try this game and make it my new MMO.

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