I hate the get it now or it will be gone tactic. Kind of reminds me of the timeshare guy trying to convince you what a great deal it is, the only problem is you have to do it right now. The same with car salesman, I can only offer you this deal for a limited time.
It just shows me how greedy and cheap EA has become, acting like used timeshare sales folks.
Making limited time products is nothing new nor is EA the only coorporation doing it.
The answer seems simple to me - don't buy it if you don't want it.
I do want the stuff, but I am not wasting Cartel Coins (which are only attainable by spending real money) on them, as rather spend the CC unlocking parts of the game to make it more viable in F2P
If they had done an event and earned special Life Day tokens or whetever to get them, then I would do the event and get the items. They did a couple of events since its release, the Raghoul one I missed but the 2nd one I did not, and it was a bit of fun - One part had you help a robot finish a race as the competitors were cheating and another part was finding some items. It just seems now they have the Cartel Market in, they are exploiting that instead of coming up with some fun events.
If they had stuck the items on some existing vendors and could be bought by in game credits or commendations, then I would have played the game (if I did not have enough credits or commendations) until I had enough to buy them
If they had only given this stuff to subscribers, and you had to subscribe to get them, then I may have even subscribed to get them
But to put them on the Cartel Market and subbers even have to buy them with real money through Cartel Coins, is just scummy, especially every single Life Day item.
In SWG they gave some items free by clicking on the Life Day tree, and then the rest were acquired after doing an event, and even had a leaderboard to see how many trees you all could decorate or how many presents you could stomp on within 30 mins. Also there was another short mission to get a stap, and some other goodies, which just incvolved travvelling around the planets and questioning NPCs, which probably took 30 mins to do, as I created something similar using Chronicles system within that time. Almost every other MMO does an event too.
Games are meant to be played, not payed (and payed some more)!
The current model will never get any money from me, i see a challenge in not paying.
Sure, i run around alot and level slower, but so what, LOL!
This. I have no problem with F2P/Freemium games, but their monetization scheme has to make sense.
Right now, there is almost nothing in the CM that is enticing to a thinking customer who actually considers price vs. value before throwing money at the screen. Not only does this not help keep F2P players, but it also drives subbed players who feel slighted at the fact that they have received almost none of the free content they where promised (Just take a look at their forums).
Everything in the CM, from gambling packs to $18 mounts that are not account-wide to charging subbed players $10 for a content update, just screams "SHORT-TERM MONEY GRAB". EA clearly doesn't care about the long term health of the game, they just wanna try to recover their loses as soon as possible and that's it.
You know, for all that people talk about the 'horrible PR' on official and external forums, I don't think it makes that much difference. I'm watching a Facebook conversation right now where a bunch of people are picking a new MMORPG. No one cares about any of the PR, good or bad. People are talking about their own experience, and generally speaking, it's good.
I think the only people affected by the horrible PR are the original subscribers. All the new players could really not care less about whatever it was EA did. They're just going to try the games out.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I think the only people affected by the horrible PR are the original subscribers. All the new players could really not care less about whatever it was EA did. They're just going to try the games out.
That is very much true. However, those types of players (i.e. the kind that doesn't care about a company's behaviour/direction) do not stick around for a very long time, which is exactly the opposite of what an MMO looks for in their playerbase.
The key word in your sentence is "new": Those players will not be new forever, and at some point they will either invest themselves in the game or leave. Guess which of those two outcomes bad PR promotes?
If people are new to SWTOR they will soon wise up to the ways of the game, like millions did at launch. The game had nothing but good PR then, but people soon saw through all the crap.
It does not matter too much with the Life Day items being lmited as you would only want them around christmas, although I bet they will start to do this more with other stuff. Even LOTRO does limited time mounts, so chances are EA will come along and do more non-seasonal items too, but at least LOTRO adds in seasonal events too. EA think that just chucking stuff on the market is what makes F2P a success. They seem to have given up adding gameplay, and just using the cartel market for more money from subscribers. Having some items on the CM would have been ineviitable, but not doing an event or giving out at least one Life Day item for free to subscribers, is just rotten.
Other MMOs use F2P to make the game viable but you pay for what you want instead of sub to all of it, but if you want all of it you sub. In SWTOR no matter how you play in F2P, it always pushes you towards subbing more so.
Instead of the locking out UI bars, reduced XP and quest rewards etc, they should have made a planet or two after Corusant / Dromund Kaas purchaseable, and up to level 15 the same as the trial completely free and less restricted. Purchasing more content with loads of gameplay feels more value for money than having the game restricted.
Sorry But I'm not a content locust and personally think to many games now-a-days have the easy button exp grab set to high. I've stopped playing games because it felt like the publisher was pushing me out of a zone without seeing everything there was to offer before it reached "level cap" for the area.
Ohh NOOOO I need to buy another hotbar to be superkoolelite. Yeah well, if you feel the need to be superkoolelite then you can easily plunk down some cash, it takes very little, heck Subs do it all the time
OHH NOOO I can't grind instances/PVP. Well to be honest if that is a complaint then you obviously knew nothing about the game so you can just suck it. They flat out said this is a story driven game. They even went so far was to suggest that the PVP was an afterthought. Instances are not what make a game. End content is not what makes a game, the WHOLE GAME is what makes a game. Just becuase a single aspect sucks does not invalidate the game. (it only validates YOUR OPINION of the game)
I did take a break from the game. FOR 1 REASON, It was simply WoW in space and I hated WoW.
Yes of course there are limites to the F2p and premium accounts. they need to put some sort of restrictions in order for people to buy things. Why does AION survive (personally that game is also a loaded pile of donkey scraps) Becuase the audience that it targets has a giant "need" to have their anime looking stickfigure females in huge frilly goddess gear.
Ok there are a few things thta I have beef with in the f2p model
Not being able to increase the size of my money pouch. In the long run this sucks
Not being able to trade or send mail (However While I have a beef I do feel it is justified as they are trying to stop gold farmers/laundry mules from saturating the f2p level, yeah yeah I know all they have to do is get prefered status but at least they are forcing them to do what every other GF has to do is at least invest in the game)
SWTOR was not going to be SWG2, They flat out said this. Quit with the "it didn't live to my expectations" becuase they flat out said what they were going to do if it didn't meet you expectations then you obviously were looking at a different game.
I'm not a SW fanatic, a SWTOR fanatic, Heck the only reason I'm playing right now is because it is f2p. I went to the show knowing what I was going to get and expecting exactly what I got, so how could it be bad?
Play what you Like. I like SWOTR, Have a referral to get you going! --> http://www.swtor.com/r/nBndbs <-- Several Unlocks and a few days game time to make the F2P considerably easier
Sorry But I'm not a content locust and personally think to many games now-a-days have the easy button exp grab set to high. I've stopped playing games because it felt like the publisher was pushing me out of a zone without seeing everything there was to offer before it reached "level cap" for the area.
Ohh NOOOO I need to buy another hotbar to be superkoolelite. Yeah well, if you feel the need to be superkoolelite then you can easily plunk down some cash, it takes very little, heck Subs do it all the time
OHH NOOO I can't grind instances/PVP. Well to be honest if that is a complaint then you obviously knew nothing about the game so you can just suck it. They flat out said this is a story driven game. They even went so far was to suggest that the PVP was an afterthought. Instances are not what make a game. End content is not what makes a game, the WHOLE GAME is what makes a game. Just becuase a single aspect sucks does not invalidate the game. (it only validates YOUR OPINION of the game)
I did take a break from the game. FOR 1 REASON, It was simply WoW in space and I hated WoW.
Yes of course there are limites to the F2p and premium accounts. they need to put some sort of restrictions in order for people to buy things. Why does AION survive (personally that game is also a loaded pile of donkey scraps) Becuase the audience that it targets has a giant "need" to have their anime looking stickfigure females in huge frilly goddess gear.
Ok there are a few things thta I have beef with in the f2p model
Not being able to increase the size of my money pouch. In the long run this sucks
Not being able to trade or send mail (However While I have a beef I do feel it is justified as they are trying to stop gold farmers/laundry mules from saturating the f2p level, yeah yeah I know all they have to do is get prefered status but at least they are forcing them to do what every other GF has to do is at least invest in the game)
SWTOR was not going to be SWG2, They flat out said this. Quit with the "it didn't live to my expectations" becuase they flat out said what they were going to do if it didn't meet you expectations then you obviously were looking at a different game.
I'm not a SW fanatic, a SWTOR fanatic, Heck the only reason I'm playing right now is because it is f2p. I went to the show knowing what I was going to get and expecting exactly what I got, so how could it be bad?
They said there would be large scale , I believe 100 on 100 , massive battles on Illum. It was advertised directly by them.
That's what I wanted to play , and then they revealed they were clueless on their own game's capabilities , and clueless on how to have a large scale PVP planet.
They advertised Illum gameplay then abandoned it (going on a year now).
They said there would be large scale , I believe 100 on 100 , massive battles on Illum. It was advertised directly by them.
That's what I wanted to play , and then they revealed they were clueless on their own game's capabilities , and clueless on how to have a large scale PVP planet.
They advertised Illum gameplay then abandoned it (going on a year now).
How is that not failed expectations for me ?
So What you are saying is that the ONLY reason you wanted to play SWTOR was for Illum.
I personally never had that much in the way of problems on Illum, then again I'm not a PVPer. However acting on the few times that I did play all I saw were people running around like lemmings, taking control point A then the WHOLE MOB moving towards B. Is that EA's fault for crappy PvP?
They gave people Illum to kill each other. Yeah not much else to do there (if you ignore the PVE aspects) but isn't that what PvP is all about? Ganking, crushing, destroying the enemy and hear the lamenting of you enemies?
Or is it all about grinding for Uber gear?
If your answer is Uber gear then refer to my comments about grinding and instancing. End game isn't the game
There are/were/have been many PvP oriented "arena" combat games out there where all you do is kill the other person. yeah there may not be Star Wars themed ones, but that is not the problem of EA, That is the problem of the IP owner.
You can blame EA/Bioware all you want for a "empty Illum" but if you want 100 vs 100 then you need 200 first. That requires people to be there, even a crappy PvP system (which as far as I can tell the only difference is the controller behind the toon) can be fun with that many people there. You just have to have had the people there in the first place. I blame peoples feeling of entitlement or needed to be rewarded for EVERY STINKING LITTLE THING as more a downfall of things rather than the WHOLE blame being on the developers shoulders.
Just to point out. early MMO's had absolutely CRAP systems in place but people LOVED them. That points to me that the blame is NOT wholely on the developers side.
Play what you Like. I like SWOTR, Have a referral to get you going! --> http://www.swtor.com/r/nBndbs <-- Several Unlocks and a few days game time to make the F2P considerably easier
They said there would be large scale , I believe 100 on 100 , massive battles on Illum. It was advertised directly by them.
That's what I wanted to play , and then they revealed they were clueless on their own game's capabilities , and clueless on how to have a large scale PVP planet.
They advertised Illum gameplay then abandoned it (going on a year now).
How is that not failed expectations for me ?
So What you are saying is that the ONLY reason you wanted to play SWTOR was for Illum.
I personally never had that much in the way of problems on Illum, then again I'm not a PVPer. However acting on the few times that I did play all I saw were people running around like lemmings, taking control point A then the WHOLE MOB moving towards B. Is that EA's fault for crappy PvP?
They gave people Illum to kill each other. Yeah not much else to do there (if you ignore the PVE aspects) but isn't that what PvP is all about? Ganking, crushing, destroying the enemy and hear the lamenting of you enemies?
Or is it all about grinding for Uber gear?
If your answer is Uber gear then refer to my comments about grinding and instancing. End game isn't the game
There are/were/have been many PvP oriented "arena" combat games out there where all you do is kill the other person. yeah there may not be Star Wars themed ones, but that is not the problem of EA, That is the problem of the IP owner.
You can blame EA/Bioware all you want for a "empty Illum" but if you want 100 vs 100 then you need 200 first. That requires people to be there, even a crappy PvP system (which as far as I can tell the only difference is the controller behind the toon) can be fun with that many people there. You just have to have had the people there in the first place. I blame peoples feeling of entitlement or needed to be rewarded for EVERY STINKING LITTLE THING as more a downfall of things rather than the WHOLE blame being on the developers shoulders.
Just to point out. early MMO's had absolutely CRAP systems in place but people LOVED them. That points to me that the blame is NOT wholely on the developers side.
EA/Bioware themselves admitted they screwed up Illum and didnt know how to fix it.
You don't have to white knight for them on everything ,(but obviously are going to ) even they admit they f'd up on this part.
You admit you aren't PVP'r yet you try and say its the players fault.
EA/Bioware had terrible design for Illum along with their horrible coding not being able to handle it correctly even in its crappy design.
Sorry to say , but they advertised it , pushed it ,and it didnt work.
That's a failed expectation.
And yet some want to spin it even on this issue that the developers themselves admitted they were cluess on what to do about it.
I'm being a "white knight" more as a stance against people's feeling of entitlement,
against people's "dismay" that it wasn't SWG2,
agsint people's "I hate this aspect of the game so you should feel bad becuase you don't hate it too" feeling that a lot of the SWTOR bashing threads project.
I was not there for the attempted fixing with the rackghoul patches. I had alread jumped ship for the reasons I've already stated. I'm definately NOT a WHITE knight to the cause. I know that they flat out admitted that Illum was a Failure, however what is their incentive for fixing it if EVERYONE simply boycots it and jumps ship?
Why fix a sinking boat if everyone has already left?
However you can play a free game, no investment truely needed with as much fun as any console game, for free, for up to 2 characters without buying anything, for free, with ability to unlock further aspects such as race, for free.
Not sure why so many people bitch about a completely free game except for a feeling of entitlement.
Problem is it is a cyclic argument
Players: I'm not comming back until you fix this BS!!!!!
Bioware (not EA): We cannot divert resources needed to fix "at this time" unless we can show EA (who has a history or yanking projects) that we can actually actract people, Hey Lets see if the "Fad" of f2p will work long enough so we can fix this!
EA: GIMME MONEY!!!
Players: Your f2p Model is Crap, I can't be leet for free!!!!
Bioware: If your Leet why pay for anything? At least we do not force you to buy endurance/action point potions like alot of other f2p games. You get the whole meat and potatos of the game for free.
EA: GIMMEE MOOONNEEEY!!!!
Player: Yeah but your f2p is epic-fail I'm not comming back till it's fixed to my liking
Bioware: we cannot divert resources till we can prove we can make money for fear that EA will pull plug
EA: MOOONEYYY!!!!!!
Play what you Like. I like SWOTR, Have a referral to get you going! --> http://www.swtor.com/r/nBndbs <-- Several Unlocks and a few days game time to make the F2P considerably easier
Sorry But I'm not a content locust and personally think to many games now-a-days have the easy button exp grab set to high. I've stopped playing games because it felt like the publisher was pushing me out of a zone without seeing everything there was to offer before it reached "level cap" for the area.
Reduced XP as a whole is not a problem in itself, but it unbalances the game, 1) The quests were designed with XP from the rate that subbed players get. LOTRO and WOW could get away with reduced XP as there are plenty of quests to do as even did quests from another class//race which gave little to no XP. In SWTOR it just means doing more boring repetetive space missions or just grinding XP on mobs which there are very little of them to none at all as others are doing the same and 2) You can not play very well with a subbed player, as if you group and do the same quests then the subbed player levels faster than you.
I would have preferred it if they made it it so that planets needed to be purchased than these silly restrictions. Buying gameplay is better than restrictive xp, ui elements etc
The game did not have to be SWG or SWG 2, but they really do not have a clue how to run a MMO, and since they did not get their millions of subs, they have given up on the game. The makeb expansion pack was said to be free, and was going to be in game before the end of 2012, as stated in June. Now it will not be in until about June 2013, 6 months later, and nothing else on the horizon, when they said they had enough content to make KOTOR 3-9 and beyond. SWTOR should have been swamped with content at this stage of its life
I think SWTOR is a better designed game than STO, but SWTOR is just been left to go stale, and Perfect World are doing better things for it to keep you playing, which is why I play STO and not SWTOR, and STO is no SWG either
EA are just using the cartel market just to add more items to buy even for subscribers, and not adding in any gameplay or events, which they have even proved they have done.
It may be my opinion, but it is also shared by MILLIONS of players, who all quit SWTOR a few months after launch, and I think SWTOR was a better game before F2P too. SWTOR is now just about getting as much money from players as possible. Other F2P games are similar but they offer more gameplay for your money. and not so brutal. Try some other F2P games, they are a lot more fun, unless you actually prefer games with a "I win" / Cheat button ie buy stuff straight from the store with cash, and get everything without actually playing a game? Personally I like to be able to play a game, and earn the items, it is much more fun
WOW has christmas event, LOTRO has christmas event, STO has christmas event, GW2 has christmas event, etc but SWTOR has no event and just items for sale for more real money on the Cartel Market
STO -> Ferengi Tactical officer, made 50 without even trying
Fallen Earth -> Running around crafting, actually extremely fun, but I have to be in the mood to play
Aion -> I only touched this game because of Tabula Rasa and till this day I cannot get the stink from my hands. I relogged to try "Totally Free to play" and the game play is the same, Grind Grind Grin, oh quest to grind 50 mobs, then quest to grind another 50 ofthe same mob, How fun. SWTOR is hundreds of times better than this even with the EXP "problem"
LOTRO -> I Love the warden class. This f2p I've spent the most on in any game (2nd is on STO). However I tire quickly of fantasy games so this is in the same boat as Fallen Earth.
Knight -> Gold farmers everywhere, couldn't stand it
Rappelz -> I do not want to buy a frelling stamina potion just to play the frelling game
Age of Conan -> Touched base, haven't played enough for f2p to actually "ruin" my game.
TSW -> now it is technically free to play, have absolutely no problems with it or the cash shop. I'm a lifer and have no problems "getting gyped" on my monthly allowance.
GW2 ->Also technically f2p, kind of a yawn game, no real need to gems if you do not care.
Several more, but I haven't touched them in so long becuase they all fall under the Knight and Rappelz style that I do not want to remember. I did play Runescape for a while and while it was annoying that my paying friend could just use a gate while I have to go all-the-way-arround was annoying it was hardly game breaking.
All f2p listed above have a different model. yet NONE have I seen the vitriol aimed at them over their f2p model that SWTOR has. People bitch that SWTOR PvP sucks rubber balls. Historically the PVE centered games have all sucked at PvP balance. it is impossible to have a class balanced in both. Everyone sings praises of WoW and thier PvP, however no one seems to understand that WOW didn't have PvP for a long and, and for longer after that it was also screwed up.
Hevean forbid I speak ill of WoW but WoW seems to be given a "free pass" card at any slight that they do, but anyone else does something similar and they are treated like the anti-christ.
SWTOR has been left outto dry in more than one way. EA and the Population. While "millions" of subs were lost, many (at the time of them unsubbing as I WAS around to read all about it) left becuase of more than "this game's PvP blows" it was more along the lines of "This is not SWG2, I was hoping it would be"
Reduced EXP no more unbalances the game than Rested exp does. A Sub who religiously logs out in a tavern will EASILY level faster than a sub who does not.
A person who uses exp bosts will easily outpace anyone who does not. The limitation alone is not an unbalancing factor. My friend had 3 times more ability to play than I did, thus he had 3 50's when I finally made my first. Isn't that unbalancing?
Swtor is in the middle of a relaunch, last time SWTOR had a christmas event and had the snowmen with Bat'laths they recieved HUGE ammounts of flack about the purity of Star Wars even though it was a kind hearted nudge to "the other guys" As a developer getting crap "thrown" at me because I dared acknowledge "the other guy" I'd tell all you elites jerks to screw off also. Also, Ohh no they do not have a holiday festival, nowhere other than the entitled mindset does it state that there must be one. I did not Log into ANY of my other MMO's BECAUSE of the holiday events.
Play what you Like. I like SWOTR, Have a referral to get you going! --> http://www.swtor.com/r/nBndbs <-- Several Unlocks and a few days game time to make the F2P considerably easier
Reduced EXP no more unbalances the game than Rested exp does. A Sub who religiously logs out in a tavern will EASILY level faster than a sub who does not.
Not to the same degree though. The game is designed with enough non rested XP to get through the game adequately, and rested XP just gives a sligfht boost and levels faster to outlevelling the game. The game was not designed with the reduced XP from F2P.
When they said about the XP I thought they meant F2P players would not get rest XP, which would have been fair enough, not reduced further again
In other MMOs like WOW/LOTRO you can do quests from other classes/race paths, but in SWTOR you can not. It would have been good to do the side quests in Ord Mantell for a Knight/Consular, and Tython for Smuggler/Commando but can not, and then the rest of the game just shares the same side quests, where as im WOW and LOTRO you get a whole load of separate quests each.
So it makes it more fun to level up in WOW and LOTRO as you can get more quests to do instead of just grinding on mobs and space mission to make up the lost XP. In STO you get XP no matter what, as each mission is scaled to your own level, plus there are more daily quests and such to do to get more XP. Reduced XP in these games would not have unbalanced them at all, and the ironic thing is in STO and LOTRO you do not get reduced XP but can buy XP boosts which would end up outlevlling subbed players, but in SWTOR it mostly certainly does unbalance the game. If SWTOR had a mission terminal or something where it would generate random mssions then that would help too, or they added in more missions to do. In STO I am level 49 now, and have not done half of the story missions, due to many varied ways to level up, making it easier to level up more chars ans can skip some missions too if already done on other char and do missions not done on other character. SWTOR does not have this, and the reduced XP just makes the levelling boring, repetitive, and without the rewards makes it less rewarding too.
SWTORs design of F2P is just a mess, and the one thing they should be selling in the CM before Life Day items is extra char slots which they keep saying is coming but has not yet. This is the main factor why I am notplaying the game, as can not create another character to carry on playing. Soon I will be able to though, but currently it is a game breaker.
Swtor is in the middle of a relaunch, last time SWTOR had a christmas event and had the snowmen with Bat'laths they recieved HUGE ammounts of flack about the purity of Star Wars even though it was a kind hearted nudge to "the other guys" As a developer getting crap "thrown" at me because I dared acknowledge "the other guy" I'd tell all you elites jerks to screw off also. Also, Ohh no they do not have a holiday festival, nowhere other than the entitled mindset does it state that there must be one. I did not Log into ANY of my other MMO's BECAUSE of the holiday events.
The christmas events are obviosuly not the be all and end all of MMOs, but they have proved they have done events in the past, and probbaly would have done one if it had not gone F2P with the cartel market. The lack of an event just shows they not willing to put any effort on the game at all (together with Makeb releasing June 2013 and not before the end of 2012), and to stick ALL Life Day items on the Cartel Market to buy for real money? It is a bit stingy of EA/BW not to give one item free to subscribers. They did before the Cartel Market - Tauntaun pet, and a few items for transferring to or being on a server not being shut down etc
Why not stick them on an existing vendor and buy with in game credits or commendations? If you want the items then, you have to PLAY the game and get them, and makes for a more rewarding experince. In STO you can even play the game and convert dilithium into ZEN, so if you play the game enough you do not need to spend any money. If SWTOR had this then it would have been better as well - Play the game and get commendations or whatever and then convert them to Cartel Coins, and then get the items.
Returning to the game just to PAY more money for Life Day items is not attractive at all, when it will all be lost when the game shuts down, but if there was some game play attached to getting these items, then I would still have the fun of getting these items, when the game shuts down it will not take the fun away from me. [Disclaimer: not saying game will shut down soon here, but one day it will]
The thing is though I like these events, and if they did one I would play and maybe even sub to the game, so that is a player lost because of this. I sub to a lot of MMOs at christmas, and I like Star Wars, KOTOR, Bioware, MMOs, so SWTOR should be a sure thing, but sadly it is not. SWTOR is the only MMO I am not playing tis christmas - sad
Originally posted by Crazy_Stick I can honestly say that if SWTOR had went buy to play rather than creating such a silly free to play model with a cash shop where you have to purchase parts of the original UI (hotbars) then I would actually support them. As it is... Well, it's like watching NASCAR and feeling guilty because you know you are only tuning in to see the car crashes.
still not too late to go b2p..worked out for funcom and TSW..in all honesty i dont think the game is has bad as peeps suggest..just the company behind it..and that in itself will do the game harm..remember the rep funcom had before TSW..at least they have gained some of their credibility back.its EA's approach thats all wrong..and they take no interest in what the players think..and i know because atm i sub to SWTOR.
Originally posted by Crazy_Stick I can honestly say that if SWTOR had went buy to play rather than creating such a silly free to play model with a cash shop where you have to purchase parts of the original UI (hotbars) then I would actually support them. As it is... Well, it's like watching NASCAR and feeling guilty because you know you are only tuning in to see the car crashes.
They should have done that from the start then. You either start with B2P or go F2P.
But yeah, they should have taken more hints from NC soft and less from SOE for the F2P revamp. Or they should have also worked on fixing the gameplay before going F2P because I dont believe P2P was the real problem.
As a MMO they just needed to add a lot more multiplayer content and work harder on the group dynamics. The sologame is fun but that keeps few players busy for long, what really keeps us MMO players going in the long run have always been group content.
And no, I would prefer if they fix up the game instead of running it into the ground. I like Star wars and if they actually fixed the game and then made it F2P would help both the players and EA. Just making a game that goes badly F2P is not enough today, you also needs to make the game more fun so more people enjoy it.
I'll fully agree that EA's approach to the f2p model did start out bad. It is their first attempt at it. However as things have progressed we are seeing a definate shift in the difference between preferred and totally f2p.
This is an obvious indication that they are fixing things as they go. The more feedback on things, the more players are into the game, the more likely things are going to be adjusted to a "norm". However, as I stated, it is the vitriol that is spouting about the hate of the model by people who have not given it a real chance. I see posts "logged in 20 min saw the model and deleted game from comp" all the time. It is many of these same people who come on here and spout hatered over the "faults" of the currently infant f2p model.
I'm not buying thing willy nilly from the store because they are "limted time" I will pay for things that I do consider that I want. I view the UI bars as such: "Prefs and subs have paid for them, I personally do not see the need for more than 2, I have a lvl 50 knight and can easily fit my manuvers on the bars. My extras such as buffs, quick travel, mounts ect. I just hit "P" , Ohh NOOO I have to wait 1 more second, or have an additional keystroke.
Hiding armor. Purely cosmetic, doesn't effect gameplay one bit, you want it pay for it, Subs do
Unifying color, I played at the beginning when you couldn't, You want it pay for it Subs do.
People getting bent out of shape over LUXURY items just really ticks me off. Screw "industry standard" when in reality all they are talking about it WoW. You like WoW so much Why you here? So they changed their mind over Makeb, it isn't like companies haven't changed their mind in the past. NcSoft is notorious for axing popular things because they felt like it. I personally do not think the players of CoX deserved what they got. Companies in the long run do not care about the customer. All they care about is the money comming at them, it doesn't matter the company. Blizzard is no exception as proven by the launch of Diablo III. Their PvP model was promised but axed, while I saw some hate, not nearly the level that is aimed at this game.
Personally I like the LOTRO model of f2p. While I do not like the grind to get the "free" points it is a tiny taste of things to come, the nibbles that they offer gave me HUGE incentive to continue on in Lotro (been playing since day 1, even after the f2p conversion. Bioware (not EA) is still attepting to show that they care. Given EA's background I would definately state that the minor restructuring that is going on in the f2p model is driven by the Bioware team.
Play what you Like. I like SWOTR, Have a referral to get you going! --> http://www.swtor.com/r/nBndbs <-- Several Unlocks and a few days game time to make the F2P considerably easier
I'll fully agree that EA's approach to the f2p model did start out bad. It is their first attempt at it. However as things have progressed we are seeing a definate shift in the difference between preferred and totally f2p.
It did not improve. One example being the cartel packs scam.
This is an obvious indication that they are fixing things as they go. The more feedback on things, the more players are into the game, the more likely things are going to be adjusted to a "norm". However, as I stated, it is the vitriol that is spouting about the hate of the model by people who have not given it a real chance. I see posts "logged in 20 min saw the model and deleted game from comp" all the time. It is many of these same people who come on here and spout hatered over the "faults" of the currently infant f2p model.
It does not takes more to grasp the F2P model. Log in game check the CC store, eventually move around a bit or try to interact with other players and you are done. Especially if it's not your first, even less if you played others F2P games.
I'm not buying thing willy nilly from the store because they are "limted time" I will pay for things that I do consider that I want. I view the UI bars as such: "Prefs and subs have paid for them, I personally do not see the need for more than 2, I have a lvl 50 knight and can easily fit my manuvers on the bars. My extras such as buffs, quick travel, mounts ect. I just hit "P" , Ohh NOOO I have to wait 1 more second, or have an additional keystroke.
Among others, I have a level 50 Juggernaught and I can say I use 5 bars. I could go down to 4 maybe 3 but it would be a pain to play especially as I do both PvE and PvP, solo and multiplayer sessions. Then not saying UI isn't needed, still why should we accept paying for subpar UI features when we have better UI in other games and even more free UI addons and skins?
Hiding armor. Purely cosmetic, doesn't effect gameplay one bit, you want it pay for it, Subs do
Unifying color, I played at the beginning when you couldn't, You want it pay for it Subs do.
For some of us it affects gameplay a lot as MMO aren't only about killing mobs. Following your logic, to some extend, you'd be fine to play a MUD because graphics are purely cosmetic.
Then once again, in other F2P MMO not only we can hide way more gear slots like: shoulder pads, hands, back, even feet, but also we have 2 or 3 dyeable areas per item, versus in TOR they make people pay for changing one or two hue value (hint check Revan's set)
People getting bent out of shape over LUXURY items just really ticks me off. Screw "industry standard" when in reality all they are talking about it WoW. You like WoW so much Why you here? So they changed their mind over Makeb, it isn't like companies haven't changed their mind in the past. NcSoft is notorious for axing popular things because they felt like it. I personally do not think the players of CoX deserved what they got. Companies in the long run do not care about the customer. All they care about is the money comming at them, it doesn't matter the company. Blizzard is no exception as proven by the launch of Diablo III. Their PvP model was promised but axed, while I saw some hate, not nearly the level that is aimed at this game.
There's a fine line between driving a company to make profit and blatantly milking players. TOR is in the second range. I guess you don't need me to lecture you on their, well behaviour?
Personally I like the LOTRO model of f2p. While I do not like the grind to get the "free" points it is a tiny taste of things to come, the nibbles that they offer gave me HUGE incentive to continue on in Lotro (been playing since day 1, even after the f2p conversion. Bioware (not EA) is still attepting to show that they care. Given EA's background I would definately state that the minor restructuring that is going on in the f2p model is driven by the Bioware team.
Intergesting. You agree on paying for UI features (free in LotRo) but then you don't like that Turbines allows you to earn, in game, Turbine points? Thing is if you don't want to grind in LotRo you can pay for them, they are leaving you the choice.
First if you think it's still BioWare you are delusional. (I'll post a few links later). Then apart fixing things they should not have messed up at first they aren't really showing they care, even less they listen to player feedback.
It did not improve. One example being the cartel packs scam.
So you are saying that packs are the downfall of a f2p mmo? So then you are blanket stating that STO's lockboxes are failures, GW2's Lockboxes are Failures, Fallen Earth's lockboxes are failures, ect...
Lockboxes do not dictate a f2p Model. As for improvement, The f2p model is already being adjusted, to suggest otherwise simply means you are not paying attention to the progression that is currently and has already happened.
It does not takes more to grasp the F2P model. Log in game check the CC store, eventually move around a bit or try to interact with other players and you are done. Especially if it's not your first, even less if you played others F2P games.
Cartel store is not a f2p model, unless you are stating that WoW is f2p. I have tried out completely f2p, I made an account to see the different between my premium and the lowest teir. There are definately differences, and many of those differences are put in place to "help" the common population against spammers and gold farmers from making a ton of frree accounts and spamming up the worlds. The totally f2p model is specifically designed to make you spend money, IN ALL GAMES, just because you are not handed an easy button here does not invalidate the model.
Among others, I have a level 50 Juggernaught and I can say I use 5 bars. I could go down to 4 maybe 3 but it would be a pain to play especially as I do both PvE and PvP, solo and multiplayer sessions. Then not saying UI isn't needed, still why should we accept paying for subpar UI features when we have better UI in other games and even more free UI addons and skins?
Kinda funny, I have a 50 Guardian, I can get by with 2 ACTIVE bars, you do understand that there are multple slots to the main bar right? I have one set for PVE, I have 1 set for PVP, I have one set for tanking. Now what I did is set the "universal" buttons on the second bar which does not change drastically. I've never understood this new generations inability to properly organize things. My Wife suffers from it and I am constantly reorganizing things for her on various games. Showing her ways to group skills, showing her skills that are only situational and putting them on "bar 2" (not a second active bar). In the past there have been many games that only offer a single active action bar but there were more than enough skills to fill those bars, you actually had to choose which ones you were going to use rather than have everything out there.
For some of us it affects gameplay a lot as MMO aren't only about killing mobs. Following your logic, to some extend, you'd be fine to play a MUD because graphics are purely cosmetic.
Then once again, in other F2P MMO not only we can hide way more gear slots like: shoulder pads, hands, back, even feet, but also we have 2 or 3 dyeable areas per item, versus in TOR they make people pay for changing one or two hue value (hint check Revan's set)
As a matter of fact one of my first computerized RPG experiences was on ZORK. I used to help program for several MUD and MUSH. I assisted with Harad on Elendor MUSH when they were switching over to what we called "Dynamic Space" for the desert. Pirate 101 and Wizard 101 are proof that graphics are not everything. I play them and personally think that they are far more entertaining than many of the MMO out there. BTW They also have far more restrictions in those games than most f2p especially if you actually want to do anything past lvl 10.
I have checked out the Reven Set, how does that have any bearing? You are describing LUXURY items. I'm all for having them make you pay for LUXURY items
Personally I like the LOTRO model of f2p. While I do not like the grind to get the "free" points it is a tiny taste of things to come, the nibbles that they offer gave me HUGE incentive to continue on in Lotro (been playing since day 1, even after the f2p conversion.
Intergesting. You agree on paying for UI features (free in LotRo) but then you don't like that Turbines allows you to earn, in game, Turbine points? Thing is if you don't want to grind in LotRo you can pay for them, they are leaving you the choice.
Weather of not I like the grind is personal preferance. I don't like grinding period, one big reason why I hate "Korean" style MMO's. I do have the ability to agree with how they are doing things, but not like them. I NEVER stated that I do not like that turbine alows you to earn them. I stated that I do not like to personally grind to get those free points. It isthe bee's knees that they allow you to get them if that is your cup of tea. Earning those free points in that fashion is not my cup of tea. That does not mean that I will not do it "just to get that extra 5 I need" it simply means that I will not intentionally go out of my way to farm every area to get those points
Play what you Like. I like SWOTR, Have a referral to get you going! --> http://www.swtor.com/r/nBndbs <-- Several Unlocks and a few days game time to make the F2P considerably easier
I'll fully agree that EA's approach to the f2p model did start out bad. It is their first attempt at it. However as things have progressed we are seeing a definate shift in the difference between preferred and totally f2p.
Problem is that they thought things like restricted quickbars were good ideas in the first place.
They are giving you the main story behind an MMO for completely free
They gave the additional bonus of limited Flashpoints, PVP, and space missions for free
They only gave you 2 ACTIVE toolbars at a time.
I'm not seeing any problem here. I've leveled a Jedi Guardian and an Imperial Sniper up to 50 with useing 2 and a half toolbars. The half were merely filled with the things that I were not required as part of an active combat scenario (quicktravel, buffs, ect...) So I could have easily gone without them.
The main tool bar has multiple quickbars available, I'm sure there are 6 quickbars that can be activated at any time.
So, quickbar 1 is the default active
Quickbar 2 is the 2nd one they give you.
That leaves quickbars 3-6 unused by the lazy masses who can not spend a little time to configure these ahead of time. YET if you do not know a flashpoint/instance (on ANY GAME) inside and out you are booted from the party. So people can spend hours researching a single fight in an instance but can not be bothered with configuring multiple "situational" toolbars?
You know what, it only costs $5 to get extra toolbars, and you do not even have to purchase the toolbars themselves. Buy some extended cargo space, or access to a new race and BOOM you magicaly have more active toolbars. I Paid retail to get my extra toolbars. People spout the catchphrase "$15 a month isn't that much to spend" Well a one time cost of $5 is even less.
Play what you Like. I like SWOTR, Have a referral to get you going! --> http://www.swtor.com/r/nBndbs <-- Several Unlocks and a few days game time to make the F2P considerably easier
Comments
I hate the get it now or it will be gone tactic. Kind of reminds me of the timeshare guy trying to convince you what a great deal it is, the only problem is you have to do it right now. The same with car salesman, I can only offer you this deal for a limited time.
It just shows me how greedy and cheap EA has become, acting like used timeshare sales folks.
I do want the stuff, but I am not wasting Cartel Coins (which are only attainable by spending real money) on them, as rather spend the CC unlocking parts of the game to make it more viable in F2P
If they had done an event and earned special Life Day tokens or whetever to get them, then I would do the event and get the items. They did a couple of events since its release, the Raghoul one I missed but the 2nd one I did not, and it was a bit of fun - One part had you help a robot finish a race as the competitors were cheating and another part was finding some items. It just seems now they have the Cartel Market in, they are exploiting that instead of coming up with some fun events.
If they had stuck the items on some existing vendors and could be bought by in game credits or commendations, then I would have played the game (if I did not have enough credits or commendations) until I had enough to buy them
If they had only given this stuff to subscribers, and you had to subscribe to get them, then I may have even subscribed to get them
But to put them on the Cartel Market and subbers even have to buy them with real money through Cartel Coins, is just scummy, especially every single Life Day item.
In SWG they gave some items free by clicking on the Life Day tree, and then the rest were acquired after doing an event, and even had a leaderboard to see how many trees you all could decorate or how many presents you could stomp on within 30 mins. Also there was another short mission to get a stap, and some other goodies, which just incvolved travvelling around the planets and questioning NPCs, which probably took 30 mins to do, as I created something similar using Chronicles system within that time. Almost every other MMO does an event too.
Games are meant to be played, not payed (and payed some more)!
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
I mean seriously? We are that low that people need to find such excuses for explaining the price of a DLC on top of the sub?
The F2P model is just not right, they try to make money on stuff that really should be sort of basic gameplay.
I mean, limited XP? Limited commendations?
The road they have taken with creating disadvantages and try to make you pay to get rid of them.
What i would prefer, and pay for, is to get something tangible for my money.
DLC, sure, and advantages no doubt.
The current model will never get any money from me, i see a challenge in not paying.
Sure, i run around alot and level slower, but so what, LOL!
This. I have no problem with F2P/Freemium games, but their monetization scheme has to make sense.
Right now, there is almost nothing in the CM that is enticing to a thinking customer who actually considers price vs. value before throwing money at the screen. Not only does this not help keep F2P players, but it also drives subbed players who feel slighted at the fact that they have received almost none of the free content they where promised (Just take a look at their forums).
Everything in the CM, from gambling packs to $18 mounts that are not account-wide to charging subbed players $10 for a content update, just screams "SHORT-TERM MONEY GRAB". EA clearly doesn't care about the long term health of the game, they just wanna try to recover their loses as soon as possible and that's it.
You know, for all that people talk about the 'horrible PR' on official and external forums, I don't think it makes that much difference. I'm watching a Facebook conversation right now where a bunch of people are picking a new MMORPG. No one cares about any of the PR, good or bad. People are talking about their own experience, and generally speaking, it's good.
I think the only people affected by the horrible PR are the original subscribers. All the new players could really not care less about whatever it was EA did. They're just going to try the games out.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
That is very much true. However, those types of players (i.e. the kind that doesn't care about a company's behaviour/direction) do not stick around for a very long time, which is exactly the opposite of what an MMO looks for in their playerbase.
The key word in your sentence is "new": Those players will not be new forever, and at some point they will either invest themselves in the game or leave. Guess which of those two outcomes bad PR promotes?
If people are new to SWTOR they will soon wise up to the ways of the game, like millions did at launch. The game had nothing but good PR then, but people soon saw through all the crap.
It does not matter too much with the Life Day items being lmited as you would only want them around christmas, although I bet they will start to do this more with other stuff. Even LOTRO does limited time mounts, so chances are EA will come along and do more non-seasonal items too, but at least LOTRO adds in seasonal events too. EA think that just chucking stuff on the market is what makes F2P a success. They seem to have given up adding gameplay, and just using the cartel market for more money from subscribers. Having some items on the CM would have been ineviitable, but not doing an event or giving out at least one Life Day item for free to subscribers, is just rotten.
Other MMOs use F2P to make the game viable but you pay for what you want instead of sub to all of it, but if you want all of it you sub. In SWTOR no matter how you play in F2P, it always pushes you towards subbing more so.
Instead of the locking out UI bars, reduced XP and quest rewards etc, they should have made a planet or two after Corusant / Dromund Kaas purchaseable, and up to level 15 the same as the trial completely free and less restricted. Purchasing more content with loads of gameplay feels more value for money than having the game restricted.
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
Ohh Nooo Reduced EXP... the horror
Sorry But I'm not a content locust and personally think to many games now-a-days have the easy button exp grab set to high. I've stopped playing games because it felt like the publisher was pushing me out of a zone without seeing everything there was to offer before it reached "level cap" for the area.
Ohh NOOOO I need to buy another hotbar to be superkoolelite. Yeah well, if you feel the need to be superkoolelite then you can easily plunk down some cash, it takes very little, heck Subs do it all the time
OHH NOOO I can't grind instances/PVP. Well to be honest if that is a complaint then you obviously knew nothing about the game so you can just suck it. They flat out said this is a story driven game. They even went so far was to suggest that the PVP was an afterthought. Instances are not what make a game. End content is not what makes a game, the WHOLE GAME is what makes a game. Just becuase a single aspect sucks does not invalidate the game. (it only validates YOUR OPINION of the game)
I did take a break from the game. FOR 1 REASON, It was simply WoW in space and I hated WoW.
Yes of course there are limites to the F2p and premium accounts. they need to put some sort of restrictions in order for people to buy things. Why does AION survive (personally that game is also a loaded pile of donkey scraps) Becuase the audience that it targets has a giant "need" to have their anime looking stickfigure females in huge frilly goddess gear.
Ok there are a few things thta I have beef with in the f2p model
Not being able to increase the size of my money pouch. In the long run this sucks
Not being able to trade or send mail (However While I have a beef I do feel it is justified as they are trying to stop gold farmers/laundry mules from saturating the f2p level, yeah yeah I know all they have to do is get prefered status but at least they are forcing them to do what every other GF has to do is at least invest in the game)
SWTOR was not going to be SWG2, They flat out said this. Quit with the "it didn't live to my expectations" becuase they flat out said what they were going to do if it didn't meet you expectations then you obviously were looking at a different game.
I'm not a SW fanatic, a SWTOR fanatic, Heck the only reason I'm playing right now is because it is f2p. I went to the show knowing what I was going to get and expecting exactly what I got, so how could it be bad?
--> http://www.swtor.com/r/nBndbs <--
Several Unlocks and a few days game time to make the F2P considerably easier
They said there would be large scale , I believe 100 on 100 , massive battles on Illum. It was advertised directly by them.
That's what I wanted to play , and then they revealed they were clueless on their own game's capabilities , and clueless on how to have a large scale PVP planet.
They advertised Illum gameplay then abandoned it (going on a year now).
How is that not failed expectations for me ?
So What you are saying is that the ONLY reason you wanted to play SWTOR was for Illum.
I personally never had that much in the way of problems on Illum, then again I'm not a PVPer. However acting on the few times that I did play all I saw were people running around like lemmings, taking control point A then the WHOLE MOB moving towards B. Is that EA's fault for crappy PvP?
They gave people Illum to kill each other. Yeah not much else to do there (if you ignore the PVE aspects) but isn't that what PvP is all about? Ganking, crushing, destroying the enemy and hear the lamenting of you enemies?
Or is it all about grinding for Uber gear?
If your answer is Uber gear then refer to my comments about grinding and instancing. End game isn't the game
There are/were/have been many PvP oriented "arena" combat games out there where all you do is kill the other person. yeah there may not be Star Wars themed ones, but that is not the problem of EA, That is the problem of the IP owner.
You can blame EA/Bioware all you want for a "empty Illum" but if you want 100 vs 100 then you need 200 first. That requires people to be there, even a crappy PvP system (which as far as I can tell the only difference is the controller behind the toon) can be fun with that many people there. You just have to have had the people there in the first place. I blame peoples feeling of entitlement or needed to be rewarded for EVERY STINKING LITTLE THING as more a downfall of things rather than the WHOLE blame being on the developers shoulders.
Just to point out. early MMO's had absolutely CRAP systems in place but people LOVED them. That points to me that the blame is NOT wholely on the developers side.
--> http://www.swtor.com/r/nBndbs <--
Several Unlocks and a few days game time to make the F2P considerably easier
EA/Bioware themselves admitted they screwed up Illum and didnt know how to fix it.
You don't have to white knight for them on everything ,(but obviously are going to ) even they admit they f'd up on this part.
You admit you aren't PVP'r yet you try and say its the players fault.
EA/Bioware had terrible design for Illum along with their horrible coding not being able to handle it correctly even in its crappy design.
Sorry to say , but they advertised it , pushed it ,and it didnt work.
That's a failed expectation.
And yet some want to spin it even on this issue that the developers themselves admitted they were cluess on what to do about it.
I'm being a "white knight" more as a stance against people's feeling of entitlement,
against people's "dismay" that it wasn't SWG2,
agsint people's "I hate this aspect of the game so you should feel bad becuase you don't hate it too" feeling that a lot of the SWTOR bashing threads project.
I was not there for the attempted fixing with the rackghoul patches. I had alread jumped ship for the reasons I've already stated. I'm definately NOT a WHITE knight to the cause. I know that they flat out admitted that Illum was a Failure, however what is their incentive for fixing it if EVERYONE simply boycots it and jumps ship?
Why fix a sinking boat if everyone has already left?
However you can play a free game, no investment truely needed with as much fun as any console game, for free, for up to 2 characters without buying anything, for free, with ability to unlock further aspects such as race, for free.
Not sure why so many people bitch about a completely free game except for a feeling of entitlement.
Problem is it is a cyclic argument
Players: I'm not comming back until you fix this BS!!!!!
Bioware (not EA): We cannot divert resources needed to fix "at this time" unless we can show EA (who has a history or yanking projects) that we can actually actract people, Hey Lets see if the "Fad" of f2p will work long enough so we can fix this!
EA: GIMME MONEY!!!
Players: Your f2p Model is Crap, I can't be leet for free!!!!
Bioware: If your Leet why pay for anything? At least we do not force you to buy endurance/action point potions like alot of other f2p games. You get the whole meat and potatos of the game for free.
EA: GIMMEE MOOONNEEEY!!!!
Player: Yeah but your f2p is epic-fail I'm not comming back till it's fixed to my liking
Bioware: we cannot divert resources till we can prove we can make money for fear that EA will pull plug
EA: MOOONEYYY!!!!!!
--> http://www.swtor.com/r/nBndbs <--
Several Unlocks and a few days game time to make the F2P considerably easier
Reduced XP as a whole is not a problem in itself, but it unbalances the game, 1) The quests were designed with XP from the rate that subbed players get. LOTRO and WOW could get away with reduced XP as there are plenty of quests to do as even did quests from another class//race which gave little to no XP. In SWTOR it just means doing more boring repetetive space missions or just grinding XP on mobs which there are very little of them to none at all as others are doing the same and 2) You can not play very well with a subbed player, as if you group and do the same quests then the subbed player levels faster than you.
I would have preferred it if they made it it so that planets needed to be purchased than these silly restrictions. Buying gameplay is better than restrictive xp, ui elements etc
The game did not have to be SWG or SWG 2, but they really do not have a clue how to run a MMO, and since they did not get their millions of subs, they have given up on the game. The makeb expansion pack was said to be free, and was going to be in game before the end of 2012, as stated in June. Now it will not be in until about June 2013, 6 months later, and nothing else on the horizon, when they said they had enough content to make KOTOR 3-9 and beyond. SWTOR should have been swamped with content at this stage of its life
I think SWTOR is a better designed game than STO, but SWTOR is just been left to go stale, and Perfect World are doing better things for it to keep you playing, which is why I play STO and not SWTOR, and STO is no SWG either
EA are just using the cartel market just to add more items to buy even for subscribers, and not adding in any gameplay or events, which they have even proved they have done.
It may be my opinion, but it is also shared by MILLIONS of players, who all quit SWTOR a few months after launch, and I think SWTOR was a better game before F2P too. SWTOR is now just about getting as much money from players as possible. Other F2P games are similar but they offer more gameplay for your money. and not so brutal. Try some other F2P games, they are a lot more fun, unless you actually prefer games with a "I win" / Cheat button ie buy stuff straight from the store with cash, and get everything without actually playing a game? Personally I like to be able to play a game, and earn the items, it is much more fun
WOW has christmas event, LOTRO has christmas event, STO has christmas event, GW2 has christmas event, etc but SWTOR has no event and just items for sale for more real money on the Cartel Market
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
As a matter of fact I do play other free MMO
STO -> Ferengi Tactical officer, made 50 without even trying
Fallen Earth -> Running around crafting, actually extremely fun, but I have to be in the mood to play
Aion -> I only touched this game because of Tabula Rasa and till this day I cannot get the stink from my hands. I relogged to try "Totally Free to play" and the game play is the same, Grind Grind Grin, oh quest to grind 50 mobs, then quest to grind another 50 ofthe same mob, How fun. SWTOR is hundreds of times better than this even with the EXP "problem"
LOTRO -> I Love the warden class. This f2p I've spent the most on in any game (2nd is on STO). However I tire quickly of fantasy games so this is in the same boat as Fallen Earth.
Knight -> Gold farmers everywhere, couldn't stand it
Rappelz -> I do not want to buy a frelling stamina potion just to play the frelling game
Age of Conan -> Touched base, haven't played enough for f2p to actually "ruin" my game.
TSW -> now it is technically free to play, have absolutely no problems with it or the cash shop. I'm a lifer and have no problems "getting gyped" on my monthly allowance.
GW2 ->Also technically f2p, kind of a yawn game, no real need to gems if you do not care.
Several more, but I haven't touched them in so long becuase they all fall under the Knight and Rappelz style that I do not want to remember. I did play Runescape for a while and while it was annoying that my paying friend could just use a gate while I have to go all-the-way-arround was annoying it was hardly game breaking.
All f2p listed above have a different model. yet NONE have I seen the vitriol aimed at them over their f2p model that SWTOR has. People bitch that SWTOR PvP sucks rubber balls. Historically the PVE centered games have all sucked at PvP balance. it is impossible to have a class balanced in both. Everyone sings praises of WoW and thier PvP, however no one seems to understand that WOW didn't have PvP for a long and, and for longer after that it was also screwed up.
Hevean forbid I speak ill of WoW but WoW seems to be given a "free pass" card at any slight that they do, but anyone else does something similar and they are treated like the anti-christ.
SWTOR has been left outto dry in more than one way. EA and the Population. While "millions" of subs were lost, many (at the time of them unsubbing as I WAS around to read all about it) left becuase of more than "this game's PvP blows" it was more along the lines of "This is not SWG2, I was hoping it would be"
Reduced EXP no more unbalances the game than Rested exp does. A Sub who religiously logs out in a tavern will EASILY level faster than a sub who does not.
A person who uses exp bosts will easily outpace anyone who does not. The limitation alone is not an unbalancing factor. My friend had 3 times more ability to play than I did, thus he had 3 50's when I finally made my first. Isn't that unbalancing?
Swtor is in the middle of a relaunch, last time SWTOR had a christmas event and had the snowmen with Bat'laths they recieved HUGE ammounts of flack about the purity of Star Wars even though it was a kind hearted nudge to "the other guys" As a developer getting crap "thrown" at me because I dared acknowledge "the other guy" I'd tell all you elites jerks to screw off also. Also, Ohh no they do not have a holiday festival, nowhere other than the entitled mindset does it state that there must be one. I did not Log into ANY of my other MMO's BECAUSE of the holiday events.
--> http://www.swtor.com/r/nBndbs <--
Several Unlocks and a few days game time to make the F2P considerably easier
Not to the same degree though. The game is designed with enough non rested XP to get through the game adequately, and rested XP just gives a sligfht boost and levels faster to outlevelling the game. The game was not designed with the reduced XP from F2P.
When they said about the XP I thought they meant F2P players would not get rest XP, which would have been fair enough, not reduced further again
In other MMOs like WOW/LOTRO you can do quests from other classes/race paths, but in SWTOR you can not. It would have been good to do the side quests in Ord Mantell for a Knight/Consular, and Tython for Smuggler/Commando but can not, and then the rest of the game just shares the same side quests, where as im WOW and LOTRO you get a whole load of separate quests each.
So it makes it more fun to level up in WOW and LOTRO as you can get more quests to do instead of just grinding on mobs and space mission to make up the lost XP. In STO you get XP no matter what, as each mission is scaled to your own level, plus there are more daily quests and such to do to get more XP. Reduced XP in these games would not have unbalanced them at all, and the ironic thing is in STO and LOTRO you do not get reduced XP but can buy XP boosts which would end up outlevlling subbed players, but in SWTOR it mostly certainly does unbalance the game. If SWTOR had a mission terminal or something where it would generate random mssions then that would help too, or they added in more missions to do. In STO I am level 49 now, and have not done half of the story missions, due to many varied ways to level up, making it easier to level up more chars ans can skip some missions too if already done on other char and do missions not done on other character. SWTOR does not have this, and the reduced XP just makes the levelling boring, repetitive, and without the rewards makes it less rewarding too.
SWTORs design of F2P is just a mess, and the one thing they should be selling in the CM before Life Day items is extra char slots which they keep saying is coming but has not yet. This is the main factor why I am notplaying the game, as can not create another character to carry on playing. Soon I will be able to though, but currently it is a game breaker.
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
The christmas events are obviosuly not the be all and end all of MMOs, but they have proved they have done events in the past, and probbaly would have done one if it had not gone F2P with the cartel market. The lack of an event just shows they not willing to put any effort on the game at all (together with Makeb releasing June 2013 and not before the end of 2012), and to stick ALL Life Day items on the Cartel Market to buy for real money? It is a bit stingy of EA/BW not to give one item free to subscribers. They did before the Cartel Market - Tauntaun pet, and a few items for transferring to or being on a server not being shut down etc
Why not stick them on an existing vendor and buy with in game credits or commendations? If you want the items then, you have to PLAY the game and get them, and makes for a more rewarding experince. In STO you can even play the game and convert dilithium into ZEN, so if you play the game enough you do not need to spend any money. If SWTOR had this then it would have been better as well - Play the game and get commendations or whatever and then convert them to Cartel Coins, and then get the items.
Returning to the game just to PAY more money for Life Day items is not attractive at all, when it will all be lost when the game shuts down, but if there was some game play attached to getting these items, then I would still have the fun of getting these items, when the game shuts down it will not take the fun away from me. [Disclaimer: not saying game will shut down soon here, but one day it will]
The thing is though I like these events, and if they did one I would play and maybe even sub to the game, so that is a player lost because of this. I sub to a lot of MMOs at christmas, and I like Star Wars, KOTOR, Bioware, MMOs, so SWTOR should be a sure thing, but sadly it is not. SWTOR is the only MMO I am not playing tis christmas - sad
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still not too late to go b2p..worked out for funcom and TSW..in all honesty i dont think the game is has bad as peeps suggest..just the company behind it..and that in itself will do the game harm..remember the rep funcom had before TSW..at least they have gained some of their credibility back.its EA's approach thats all wrong..and they take no interest in what the players think..and i know because atm i sub to SWTOR.
They should have done that from the start then. You either start with B2P or go F2P.
But yeah, they should have taken more hints from NC soft and less from SOE for the F2P revamp. Or they should have also worked on fixing the gameplay before going F2P because I dont believe P2P was the real problem.
As a MMO they just needed to add a lot more multiplayer content and work harder on the group dynamics. The sologame is fun but that keeps few players busy for long, what really keeps us MMO players going in the long run have always been group content.
And no, I would prefer if they fix up the game instead of running it into the ground. I like Star wars and if they actually fixed the game and then made it F2P would help both the players and EA. Just making a game that goes badly F2P is not enough today, you also needs to make the game more fun so more people enjoy it.
I'll fully agree that EA's approach to the f2p model did start out bad. It is their first attempt at it. However as things have progressed we are seeing a definate shift in the difference between preferred and totally f2p.
This is an obvious indication that they are fixing things as they go. The more feedback on things, the more players are into the game, the more likely things are going to be adjusted to a "norm". However, as I stated, it is the vitriol that is spouting about the hate of the model by people who have not given it a real chance. I see posts "logged in 20 min saw the model and deleted game from comp" all the time. It is many of these same people who come on here and spout hatered over the "faults" of the currently infant f2p model.
I'm not buying thing willy nilly from the store because they are "limted time" I will pay for things that I do consider that I want. I view the UI bars as such: "Prefs and subs have paid for them, I personally do not see the need for more than 2, I have a lvl 50 knight and can easily fit my manuvers on the bars. My extras such as buffs, quick travel, mounts ect. I just hit "P" , Ohh NOOO I have to wait 1 more second, or have an additional keystroke.
Hiding armor. Purely cosmetic, doesn't effect gameplay one bit, you want it pay for it, Subs do
Unifying color, I played at the beginning when you couldn't, You want it pay for it Subs do.
People getting bent out of shape over LUXURY items just really ticks me off. Screw "industry standard" when in reality all they are talking about it WoW. You like WoW so much Why you here? So they changed their mind over Makeb, it isn't like companies haven't changed their mind in the past. NcSoft is notorious for axing popular things because they felt like it. I personally do not think the players of CoX deserved what they got. Companies in the long run do not care about the customer. All they care about is the money comming at them, it doesn't matter the company. Blizzard is no exception as proven by the launch of Diablo III. Their PvP model was promised but axed, while I saw some hate, not nearly the level that is aimed at this game.
Personally I like the LOTRO model of f2p. While I do not like the grind to get the "free" points it is a tiny taste of things to come, the nibbles that they offer gave me HUGE incentive to continue on in Lotro (been playing since day 1, even after the f2p conversion. Bioware (not EA) is still attepting to show that they care. Given EA's background I would definately state that the minor restructuring that is going on in the f2p model is driven by the Bioware team.
--> http://www.swtor.com/r/nBndbs <--
Several Unlocks and a few days game time to make the F2P considerably easier
--> http://www.swtor.com/r/nBndbs <--
Several Unlocks and a few days game time to make the F2P considerably easier
Problem is that they thought things like restricted quickbars were good ideas in the first place.
Lets see
They are giving you the main story behind an MMO for completely free
They gave the additional bonus of limited Flashpoints, PVP, and space missions for free
They only gave you 2 ACTIVE toolbars at a time.
I'm not seeing any problem here. I've leveled a Jedi Guardian and an Imperial Sniper up to 50 with useing 2 and a half toolbars. The half were merely filled with the things that I were not required as part of an active combat scenario (quicktravel, buffs, ect...) So I could have easily gone without them.
The main tool bar has multiple quickbars available, I'm sure there are 6 quickbars that can be activated at any time.
So, quickbar 1 is the default active
Quickbar 2 is the 2nd one they give you.
That leaves quickbars 3-6 unused by the lazy masses who can not spend a little time to configure these ahead of time. YET if you do not know a flashpoint/instance (on ANY GAME) inside and out you are booted from the party. So people can spend hours researching a single fight in an instance but can not be bothered with configuring multiple "situational" toolbars?
You know what, it only costs $5 to get extra toolbars, and you do not even have to purchase the toolbars themselves. Buy some extended cargo space, or access to a new race and BOOM you magicaly have more active toolbars. I Paid retail to get my extra toolbars. People spout the catchphrase "$15 a month isn't that much to spend" Well a one time cost of $5 is even less.
--> http://www.swtor.com/r/nBndbs <--
Several Unlocks and a few days game time to make the F2P considerably easier