Have you ever seen a game with subs to feed all the people that work with the game + a profit or more go F2P?
I myself think every mmorpg game that goes F2P only does it because they can not affort or go around with the subs they had.
Subs pay more every month than F2P does, ofcourse depending on how many. My point is that if a game had lots of subs they
would not go F2P. And yes F2P is last cry for help before closing the game down if it doesn´t work as a F2P model.
Think of F2P as: "Ok we dont have enough subs to pay all the employees and make a small profit. Lets try F2P before we shut the game down, and dont even get the money back that we put into it in the first place".
Have you ever seen a game with subs to feed all the people that work with the game + a profit or more go F2P?
I myself think every mmorpg game that goes F2P only does it because they can not affort or go around with the subs they had.
Subs pay more every month than F2P does, ofcourse depending on how many. My point is that if a game had lots of subs they
would not go F2P. And yes F2P is last cry for help before closing the game down if it doesn´t work as a F2P model.
Think of F2P as: "Ok we dont have enough subs to pay all the employees and make a small profit. Lets try F2P before we shut the game down, and dont even get the money back that we put into it in the first place".
this is also not true
SWTOR for example was turning a profit it went F2P on presher from EA ( witch EA has now destroyed Biowere ) F2P for SWTOR was never about Money it was about justiy the game to EA so that EA would leave them alone
Have you ever seen a game with subs to feed all the people that work with the game + a profit or more go F2P?
I myself think every mmorpg game that goes F2P only does it because they can not affort or go around with the subs they had.
Subs pay more every month than F2P does, ofcourse depending on how many. My point is that if a game had lots of subs they
would not go F2P. And yes F2P is last cry for help before closing the game down if it doesn´t work as a F2P model.
Think of F2P as: "Ok we dont have enough subs to pay all the employees and make a small profit. Lets try F2P before we shut the game down, and dont even get the money back that we put into it in the first place".
this is also not true
SWTOR for example was turning a profit it went F2P on presher from EA ( witch EA has now destroyed Biowere ) F2P for SWTOR was never about Money it was about justiy the game to EA so that EA would leave them alone
Not enough profit on aion and planetside, atleast not after 6 months. Second life and Entropia is real cash economy can´t count those in. Why dont they just go free to play from the start have you asked that question before? Swtor only had many subs first 4 months, broken endgame and so on, lost more than half of their subs. So no wonder it went F2P.
Assumption with no basis. There is no gaurantee the subscription game is going to be of higher quality. If this was five years ago, I'd probably agree with you, but we've gone through four years of crappy subscription games, each one of them struggling to stay alive. Meanwhile, the F2P games have provided more choices, more stable releases, more regular ingame events and more diversity than almost everything these blockbuster AAA subscription titles have been able to bring to the table.
Of course there are more choices for the P2W business model. Low quality games can be made much more cheaply and are practically cut and pasted with 1 or 2 different game mechanics. Stability isn't a product from them being " better ", but because publisher expectations are much lower, since the development costs are low, and the supporting staff is kept to a minimum. P2W games are designed to have lots events. Just like stores have weekly adds to get people to purchase items.
The P2W business model forces game mechanics to be inferior because they have to be designed to be monetized. Developers can't just design their systems to be fun and hope that people will continue to play. It has to be exploitable, or they don't get payed.
Have you ever seen a game with subs to feed all the people that work with the game + a profit or more go F2P?
I myself think every mmorpg game that goes F2P only does it because they can not affort or go around with the subs they had.
Subs pay more every month than F2P does, ofcourse depending on how many. My point is that if a game had lots of subs they
would not go F2P. And yes F2P is last cry for help before closing the game down if it doesn´t work as a F2P model.
Think of F2P as: "Ok we dont have enough subs to pay all the employees and make a small profit. Lets try F2P before we shut the game down, and dont even get the money back that we put into it in the first place".
this is also not true
SWTOR for example was turning a profit it went F2P on presher from EA ( witch EA has now destroyed Biowere ) F2P for SWTOR was never about Money it was about justiy the game to EA so that EA would leave them alone
Not enough profit on aion and planetside, atleast not after 6 months. Second life and Entropia is real cash economy can´t count those in. Why dont they just go free to play from the start have you asked that question before? Swtor only had many subs first 4 months, broken endgame and so on, lost more than half of their subs. So no wonder it went F2P.
Too bad PlanetSide 2(I'm guessing you mean 2, PlanetSide 1 was never and still isn't F2P) has only been out for two months, and started as a "F2P" game. Your statement "Subs pay more every month than F2P does" was disproved I think on Page 2? of this thread. Don't remember who posted it, but i'll edit this after with the name. Edit: It was Onomas on the first page.
Have you ever seen a game with subs to feed all the people that work with the game + a profit or more go F2P?
I myself think every mmorpg game that goes F2P only does it because they can not affort or go around with the subs they had.
Subs pay more every month than F2P does, ofcourse depending on how many. My point is that if a game had lots of subs they
would not go F2P. And yes F2P is last cry for help before closing the game down if it doesn´t work as a F2P model.
Think of F2P as: "Ok we dont have enough subs to pay all the employees and make a small profit. Lets try F2P before we shut the game down, and dont even get the money back that we put into it in the first place".
this is also not true
SWTOR for example was turning a profit it went F2P on presher from EA ( witch EA has now destroyed Biowere ) F2P for SWTOR was never about Money it was about justiy the game to EA so that EA would leave them alone
Not enough profit on aion and planetside, atleast not after 6 months. Second life and Entropia is real cash economy can´t count those in. Why dont they just go free to play from the start have you asked that question before? Swtor only had many subs first 4 months, broken endgame and so on, lost more than half of their subs. So no wonder it went F2P.
This is just not true the data is public go look at it your speaking on a subject you know nothing about the sub data from all of theas games is public on the games websight, if your going to make a clam like that back it up .................. oh wait you can't because it's untrue
Have you ever seen a game with subs to feed all the people that work with the game + a profit or more go F2P?
I myself think every mmorpg game that goes F2P only does it because they can not affort or go around with the subs they had.
Subs pay more every month than F2P does, ofcourse depending on how many. My point is that if a game had lots of subs they
would not go F2P. And yes F2P is last cry for help before closing the game down if it doesn´t work as a F2P model.
Think of F2P as: "Ok we dont have enough subs to pay all the employees and make a small profit. Lets try F2P before we shut the game down, and dont even get the money back that we put into it in the first place".
this is also not true
SWTOR for example was turning a profit it went F2P on presher from EA ( witch EA has now destroyed Biowere ) F2P for SWTOR was never about Money it was about justiy the game to EA so that EA would leave them alone
Not enough profit on aion and planetside, atleast not after 6 months. Second life and Entropia is real cash economy can´t count those in. Why dont they just go free to play from the start have you asked that question before? Swtor only had many subs first 4 months, broken endgame and so on, lost more than half of their subs. So no wonder it went F2P.
Too bad PlanetSide 2(I'm guessing you mean 2, PlanetSide 1 was never and still isn't F2P) has only been out for two months, and started as a "F2P" game. Your statement "Subs pay more every month than F2P does" was disproved I think on Page 2? of this thread. Don't remember who posted it, but i'll edit this after with the name. Edit: It was Onomas on the first page.
He wrote planetside , so I guessed one. Planetside 2 was open beta then they decided to go F2P.I was talking about the games that went F2P not the ones that was made F2P from start. And I said it depends on how many subs. And if its not enough subs it goes F2P with "some" people paying for the rest in a pay to win game since the others cant afford it.
Have you ever seen a game with subs to feed all the people that work with the game + a profit or more go F2P?
I myself think every mmorpg game that goes F2P only does it because they can not affort or go around with the subs they had.
Subs pay more every month than F2P does, ofcourse depending on how many. My point is that if a game had lots of subs they
would not go F2P. And yes F2P is last cry for help before closing the game down if it doesn´t work as a F2P model.
Think of F2P as: "Ok we dont have enough subs to pay all the employees and make a small profit. Lets try F2P before we shut the game down, and dont even get the money back that we put into it in the first place".
this is also not true
SWTOR for example was turning a profit it went F2P on presher from EA ( witch EA has now destroyed Biowere ) F2P for SWTOR was never about Money it was about justiy the game to EA so that EA would leave them alone
Not enough profit on aion and planetside, atleast not after 6 months. Second life and Entropia is real cash economy can´t count those in. Why dont they just go free to play from the start have you asked that question before? Swtor only had many subs first 4 months, broken endgame and so on, lost more than half of their subs. So no wonder it went F2P.
Too bad PlanetSide 2(I'm guessing you mean 2, PlanetSide 1 was never and still isn't F2P) has only been out for two months, and started as a "F2P" game. Your statement "Subs pay more every month than F2P does" was disproved I think on Page 2? of this thread. Don't remember who posted it, but i'll edit this after with the name. Edit: It was Onomas on the first page.
He wrote planetside , so I guessed one. Planetside 2 was open beta then they decided to go F2P.I was talking about the games that went F2P not the ones that was made F2P from start. And I said it depends on how many subs. And if its not enough subs it goes F2P with "some" people paying for the rest in a pay to win game since the others cant afford it.
you started bay saying theas games don't make a profit or feed the dev's that make them then you said the profit was not good also un true you have no point left !
Originally posted by moosecatlol The issue was that none of those games had the pulling power or the content to retain players in the first place.
Exactly.
If an mmo comes out and is subscription based to start with and has to switch to free to play, it's a failure, in a sense. They couldn't keep enough subscribers, so they grasp for straws and make it free to play and put in a cash shop, which is what they should have done to begin with because the game wasn't good enough to warrant a subscription.
Assumption with no basis. There is no gaurantee the subscription game is going to be of higher quality. If this was five years ago, I'd probably agree with you, but we've gone through four years of crappy subscription games, each one of them struggling to stay alive. Meanwhile, the F2P games have provided more choices, more stable releases, more regular ingame events and more diversity than almost everything these blockbuster AAA subscription titles have been able to bring to the table.
Of course there are more choices for the P2W business model. Low quality games can be made much more cheaply and are practically cut and pasted with 1 or 2 different game mechanics. Stability isn't a product from them being " better ", but because publisher expectations are much lower, since the development costs are low, and the supporting staff is kept to a minimum. P2W games are designed to have lots events. Just like stores have weekly adds to get people to purchase items.
The P2W business model forces game mechanics to be inferior because they have to be designed to be monetized. Developers can't just design their systems to be fun and hope that people will continue to play. It has to be exploitable, or they don't get payed.
So, your stance is that MMO gamers are more gullible than any other consumer, correct? Or are you saying they have a gaming addiction?
One of the two has to be true in order for your assertion to be correct. Are you saying MMO gamers, spenders and free players alike, are gullible or addicts?
See, you either didn't think your response through or you have an extremely low opinion of MMO gamers, as your argument is based on them being a collective bunch of idiots. Except you, of course. Otherwise your argument falls apart, as every other entertainment seeker on the planet will take part in a voluntary entertainment exercise as long as they find it fun. If they don't find it fun, they stop doing it.
Are you now going to contend that they really aren't finding it fun and they are just tricked into thinking they are having fun?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Originally posted by moosecatlol The issue was that none of those games had the pulling power or the content to retain players in the first place.
Exactly.
If an mmo comes out and is subscription based to start with and has to switch to free to play, it's a failure, in a sense. They couldn't keep enough subscribers, so they grasp for straws and make it free to play and put in a cash shop, which is what they should have done to begin with because the game wasn't good enough to warrant a subscription.
Thank you for writing what I thought, got sidetracked from other posts. But this is exactly what I mean. And also the games that are F2P from the start is also Pay 2 Win from my point of view.
Originally posted by moosecatlol The issue was that none of those games had the pulling power or the content to retain players in the first place.
Exactly.
If an mmo comes out and is subscription based to start with and has to switch to free to play, it's a failure, in a sense. They couldn't keep enough subscribers, so they grasp for straws and make it free to play and put in a cash shop, which is what they should have done to begin with because the game wasn't good enough to warrant a subscription.
Thank you for writing what I thought, got sidetracked from other posts. But this is exactly what I mean. And also the games that are F2P from the start is also Pay 2 Win from my point of view.
totaly not true play a F2P game and you would know that their are pay to win games out their but not all free games are pay to win no SOE game is P2W Aion is not P2W and even SWTOR is not P2W
War of legends is a free 2 play but most pay 2 win. Some of the top legends are very expensive and are not available through quests. To gain the top legends u have to pay. I did manage to flip items in the market and save enough for the best legend in the game his artefact and his mount. Hundreds of $$ worth of in game credits. I never spent a dime on that game.
For those who say Aion is truly f2p, stop talking rabish. It is completely free as long as you continuously buy a gold pack aka 30 day ingame subscription which costs around 10$.
I made it up to lvl 50 and after that i even bought 4 gold packs aka 40$, which i activated them but didn't had the chance to enjoy, because i went to play a better game.
I recently log in to see that your truly f2p game still doesn't allow me to use the LFG channel or to create an entry in the looking for group menu, unless i will buy gold packs again.
I forgot to mention that i am not allowed to trade items to other players, send items in mails, and until recently i wasn't even able to use the in game shop to sell or buy anything except gold pack.
Aion F2P? Yes it is free to play, but like most of free games, that's all you will get, the ability to play, but not to have fun unless you PAY.
Btw, the Aion servers are completely empty, i rarely see a person in town every half of hour.
Originally posted by Bomtox For those who say Aion is truly f2p, stop talking rabish. It is completely free as long as you continuously buy a gold pack aka 30 day ingame subscription which costs around 10$. I made it up to lvl 50 and after that i even bought 4 gold packs aka 40$, which i activated them but didn't had the chance to enjoy, because i went to play a better game. I recently log in to see that your truly f2p game still doesn't allow me to use the LFG channel or to create an entry in the looking for group menu, unless i will buy gold packs again. I forgot to mention that i am not allowed to trade items to other players, send items in mails, and until recently i wasn't even able to use the in game shop to sell or buy anything except gold pack. Aion F2P? Yes it is free to play, but like most of free games, that's all you will get, the ability to play, but not to have fun unless you PAY. Btw, the Aion servers are completely empty, i rarely see a person in town every half of hour.
I guess he was talking about Aion truly free the NA version and not the Failforge EU version cause there are no such limitations in the NA version. They are run by different Companys (Ncsoft in NA and Failforge in eu) and have a very different business modell.
Indeed, I was talking about Aion EU hosted by gameforge. I log in today to try Aion 3.5, even tho i am lvl 50 and invested 40$ in this games, i am considered just a free to play random user.
I am still not allowed to TRADE, to CHAT and to use Game auction house(broker), every time i try to do something basic i am redirected to Aion shop to buy Gold pack -.-
Seriously, i am sick of all this apparently f2p and p2win games.
You can quit whenever you want and come back whenever you want.
The meter isn't running.
It is much easier to get friends to join you.
You can get friends or family to play that would otherwise never get value from a subscription game.
If you have money but no time, you have a way to speed yourself along so you can actually experience the content that otherwise you'd never have time to experience.
Your title is an opinion and if you wanted it respected, you should respect others as well.
In MY OPINION. Free to play unevens the playing field in MMORPGs and it serves as a tool to get people to try your game to pay for your game. Meaning your game is just not good enough to keep a monthly fee. Games like FFXI, WoW and many others are good enough to keep a monthly fee. That is my belief.
Tera would have never dropped its monthly fee if it did not HAVE to. The game died after a few months because there was no end game. Nothing justified a monthly fee. So it is now opening its doors as F2P. This is a fact.
Hero Evermore Guild Master of Dragonspine since 1982. Playing Path of Exile and deeply in love with it.
Going F2P these days is just a sign of the changing tastes and expectations of gamers not necessarily indicative of the state of the game. You will see more and more games being released in this manner rather than switching to this paystyle later on in the game's lifecycle. Hurray for us!
I am sick of all you people saying free to play is a sell out or a bad
Tera , SWTOR , Aion all for teas games went F2P for one reason to give sub players more people to play with
All had good numbers but Dev’s can’t justify a games life to publishers on anything less than great numbers
So F2P was added you can still sub and many do
F2P is a good thing after all without it publishers like EA would kill games and even the sub players would be left out
Or have we all forgot SWG (Star Wars Galaxys )
Actually, there are plenty of publishers that CLAIM that f2p has been great for their games. In fact, we really do not know. We know that many people THINK that because something says "free" in the label that they are getting all they can out a game without paying. OR, they are willing to play a watered down version of the game simply to avoid paying. The problem is, that for most of these so-called f2p play games, you will not get much for what you DON'T pay for.
So, your stance is that MMO gamers are more gullible than any other consumer, correct? Or are you saying they have a gaming addiction?
One of the two has to be true in order for your assertion to be correct. Are you saying MMO gamers, spenders and free players alike, are gullible or addicts?
See, you either didn't think your response through or you have an extremely low opinion of MMO gamers, as your argument is based on them being a collective bunch of idiots. Except you, of course. Otherwise your argument falls apart, as every other entertainment seeker on the planet will take part in a voluntary entertainment exercise as long as they find it fun. If they don't find it fun, they stop doing it.
Are you now going to contend that they really aren't finding it fun and they are just tricked into thinking they are having fun?
You are trying too hard to twist my words. All I was stating is that developers have to design their systems so that paying players have an advantage.
Comments
Question:
Have you ever seen a game with subs to feed all the people that work with the game + a profit or more go F2P?
I myself think every mmorpg game that goes F2P only does it because they can not affort or go around with the subs they had.
Subs pay more every month than F2P does, ofcourse depending on how many. My point is that if a game had lots of subs they
would not go F2P. And yes F2P is last cry for help before closing the game down if it doesn´t work as a F2P model.
Think of F2P as: "Ok we dont have enough subs to pay all the employees and make a small profit. Lets try F2P before we shut the game down, and dont even get the money back that we put into it in the first place".
this is also not true
SWTOR for example was turning a profit it went F2P on presher from EA ( witch EA has now destroyed Biowere ) F2P for SWTOR was never about Money it was about justiy the game to EA so that EA would leave them alone
Aion has always made a profit look it up
planetside well in the black
and Second Life is a cash cow
their are meny more
Not enough profit on aion and planetside, atleast not after 6 months. Second life and Entropia is real cash economy can´t count those in. Why dont they just go free to play from the start have you asked that question before? Swtor only had many subs first 4 months, broken endgame and so on, lost more than half of their subs. So no wonder it went F2P.
The P2W business model forces game mechanics to be inferior because they have to be designed to be monetized. Developers can't just design their systems to be fun and hope that people will continue to play. It has to be exploitable, or they don't get payed.
I think you should also differentiate between games that converted to F2P and games that were designed with F2P as business model.
Too bad PlanetSide 2(I'm guessing you mean 2, PlanetSide 1 was never and still isn't F2P) has only been out for two months, and started as a "F2P" game. Your statement "Subs pay more every month than F2P does" was disproved I think on Page 2? of this thread. Don't remember who posted it, but i'll edit this after with the name. Edit: It was Onomas on the first page.
This is just not true the data is public go look at it your speaking on a subject you know nothing about the sub data from all of theas games is public on the games websight, if your going to make a clam like that back it up .................. oh wait you can't because it's untrue
He wrote planetside , so I guessed one. Planetside 2 was open beta then they decided to go F2P.I was talking about the games that went F2P not the ones that was made F2P from start. And I said it depends on how many subs. And if its not enough subs it goes F2P with "some" people paying for the rest in a pay to win game since the others cant afford it.
also untrue Swtor and Aion have a Core sub group of players that have never wavered
one of the choices to go F2P for both games was to give that core group more players to group with in game
you started bay saying theas games don't make a profit or feed the dev's that make them then you said the profit was not good also un true you have no point left !
Both Swtor and Aion are pay to win. And here is a review on swtor http://penny-arcade.com/report/editorial-article/the-old-republics-free-to-play-option-isnt-worth-your-time-let-alone-money
Exactly.
If an mmo comes out and is subscription based to start with and has to switch to free to play, it's a failure, in a sense. They couldn't keep enough subscribers, so they grasp for straws and make it free to play and put in a cash shop, which is what they should have done to begin with because the game wasn't good enough to warrant a subscription.
What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot
So, your stance is that MMO gamers are more gullible than any other consumer, correct? Or are you saying they have a gaming addiction?
One of the two has to be true in order for your assertion to be correct. Are you saying MMO gamers, spenders and free players alike, are gullible or addicts?
See, you either didn't think your response through or you have an extremely low opinion of MMO gamers, as your argument is based on them being a collective bunch of idiots. Except you, of course. Otherwise your argument falls apart, as every other entertainment seeker on the planet will take part in a voluntary entertainment exercise as long as they find it fun. If they don't find it fun, they stop doing it.
Are you now going to contend that they really aren't finding it fun and they are just tricked into thinking they are having fun?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Thank you for writing what I thought, got sidetracked from other posts. But this is exactly what I mean. And also the games that are F2P from the start is also Pay 2 Win from my point of view.
totaly not true play a F2P game and you would know that their are pay to win games out their but not all free games are pay to win no SOE game is P2W Aion is not P2W and even SWTOR is not P2W
War of legends is a free 2 play but most pay 2 win. Some of the top legends are very expensive and are not available through quests. To gain the top legends u have to pay. I did manage to flip items in the market and save enough for the best legend in the game his artefact and his mount. Hundreds of $$ worth of in game credits. I never spent a dime on that game.
http://www.sythe.org/other-games/1516663-selling-war-legends-account-rahu.html
I made it up to lvl 50 and after that i even bought 4 gold packs aka 40$, which i activated them but didn't had the chance to enjoy, because i went to play a better game.
I recently log in to see that your truly f2p game still doesn't allow me to use the LFG channel or to create an entry in the looking for group menu, unless i will buy gold packs again.
I forgot to mention that i am not allowed to trade items to other players, send items in mails, and until recently i wasn't even able to use the in game shop to sell or buy anything except gold pack.
Aion F2P? Yes it is free to play, but like most of free games, that's all you will get, the ability to play, but not to have fun unless you PAY.
Btw, the Aion servers are completely empty, i rarely see a person in town every half of hour.
I guess he was talking about Aion truly free the NA version and not the Failforge EU version cause there are no such limitations in the NA version. They are run by different Companys (Ncsoft in NA and Failforge in eu) and have a very different business modell.
Indeed, I was talking about Aion EU hosted by gameforge.
I log in today to try Aion 3.5, even tho i am lvl 50 and invested 40$ in this games, i am considered just a free to play random user.
I am still not allowed to TRADE, to CHAT and to use Game auction house(broker), every time i try to do something basic i am redirected to Aion shop to buy Gold pack -.-
Seriously, i am sick of all this apparently f2p and p2win games.
F2P is amazing when done well.
Gdoug, currently playing Threshold RPG (role playing required MUD)
http://www.thresholdrpg.com
Your title is an opinion and if you wanted it respected, you should respect others as well.
In MY OPINION. Free to play unevens the playing field in MMORPGs and it serves as a tool to get people to try your game to pay for your game. Meaning your game is just not good enough to keep a monthly fee. Games like FFXI, WoW and many others are good enough to keep a monthly fee. That is my belief.
Tera would have never dropped its monthly fee if it did not HAVE to. The game died after a few months because there was no end game. Nothing justified a monthly fee. So it is now opening its doors as F2P. This is a fact.
Hero Evermore
Guild Master of Dragonspine since 1982.
Playing Path of Exile and deeply in love with it.
Actually, there are plenty of publishers that CLAIM that f2p has been great for their games. In fact, we really do not know. We know that many people THINK that because something says "free" in the label that they are getting all they can out a game without paying. OR, they are willing to play a watered down version of the game simply to avoid paying. The problem is, that for most of these so-called f2p play games, you will not get much for what you DON'T pay for.
Let's party like it is 1863!
You are trying too hard to twist my words. All I was stating is that developers have to design their systems so that paying players have an advantage.