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[Column] General: The March Against Violent Videogames
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But US is far worse than UK here? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate
And here? http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_tot_cri-crime-total-crimes
Exactly. Look at the real history of the world for an example of what tyrants do in those situations. In all three you mentioned (and countless more) disarmament was followed by attempts at genocide. The first step is registration. That eventually is followed by confiscation. Or in the US an attempt at it.
Video games are just a useful target right now. When you have a lot of hysterics running around screaming "Someone has to do SOMETHING!!" Someone with an agenda steps forward and says "This is something!" Then the hysterics start to demand that this "something" be done. No matter if it is rational, reasonable or effective. At least "something" was done...
Your link is from the daily fucking mail, its not proof of anything. The statistic they quote is for all crimes not violent crimes anyway, and even then violent crimes isn't murder rate it includes punch ups and what not (which probably is higher in the UK, we drink more, we mass on city centres every weekend and we don't have to worry about someone pulling a price and blowing our brains out)
[mod edit]
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate
Thanks lok, very well said. /applaud
On the first link: You are replying to a post where I agree with ShakyMo on the homocide rate. Like him, you're reading what you want to and not what's there.
On the second link: That was English, now let's try math. 11 million crimes in the US. 6 million crimes in the UK. 350million people in the US. 63million people in the UK. Using the data that you just linked, the crime per capita is about 3 times higher in the UK.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I don't think the U.S.A needs draconian gun controls,though I personally do not see why anyone needs a personal arsenal of semi automatic weapons,but there does need to be less emphasis on gun ownership as a right and much more on gun ownership as a responsibility and harsher penalties for failing in those responsibilities.
Also whilst these mass shootings are tragic they are still aberrations and should not be the impetus for these discussions.Most gun violence and indeed just violent crime in general are the result of socioeconomic issues and the desperation and disenfranchisment caused by those issues.These are waht we should be discussing and finding solutions for.Then again gang violence and ghettos are also a favorite scapegoat for the government/media to use to distract from such issues.
Sometimes I think we haven't really progessed much since the Salem Witch Trials
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT
Playing: Skyrim
Following: The Repopulation
I want a Virtual World, not just a Game.
ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
There's a lot of ambiguity concerning those statistics. The United Nations paints a very different picture when you're looking at homicide rates by country. Western Europe (including the UK) has the lowest homicide rate per 100,000 people in the world. South Africa has the highest. North America (Canada, U.S. and Mexico) is about the middle point.
http://www.unodc.org/documents/data-and-analysis/statistics/Homicide/Globa_study_on_homicide_2011_web.pdf
These are statistics cover 2010 or whatever the latest available year is. I don't think they've compiled stats for 2012 yet.
** edit **
In the UK, having an "affray" warrants calling the police and filing a report. An "affray" sounds very much like having an argument. People in the UK might just call the police a lot.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Somenoe said it was relative, but looking closer at it it looks like it's total crime. If that's the case and the data is right, then so are you.
Assault is like a black eye or broken nose or what have you, but could be with no real damage done, like punching a complete stranger in the street
Gbh is like a broken leg, fractured skull, kicking someone on the floor and breaking ribs etc..
We also have other special categories of violent crime such as if it involves a knife, if it involves an improvised weapon like a cricket bat, if its racially motivated or if its associated with football holiganism.
When I was a youngster, if you were on a night out and got in an argument with another that ended up in a fist fight. Providing it was one on one, no weapons were used and you took it outside, police would usually let you off with a warning.
Not so now, they're very statistic driven, if they haven't made x number of arrests that week they will nick you to keep their bonus. If they're really lagging behind on conviction rate they'll go out of their way to get some easy to catch "criminals" e.g. rounding up alcoholics and busting them for drunk and disorderly, getting the speed guns out on roads with lower speed limits than they need or busting people for possessing softer drugs like ganja and e.
Police used to use discretion over here, the people in prison were people you wanted in prison. Nowadays there's a heck of a lot of people doing silly little short term sentences for minor stuff that would otherwise be fairly responsible citizens holding down a job and suporting a family, save for smoking the occasional stuff or not paying their tv license or whatever.
But US is far worse than UK here? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate And here? http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_tot_cri-crime-total-crimes
On the first link: You are replying to a post where I agree with ShakyMo on the homocide rate. Like him, you're reading what you want to and not what's there. On the second link: That was English, now let's try math. 11 million crimes in the US. 6 million crimes in the UK. 350million people in the US. 63million people in the UK. Using the data that you just linked, the crime per capita is about 3 times higher in the UK.
Somenoe said it was relative, but looking closer at it it looks like it's total crime. If that's the case and the data is right, then so are you.
There's still no real definition of "crime". Something that constitutes filing a police report in the UK could be very different from something that constitutes filing a police report in France.
I'm reasonably sure that none of these things, homicide or not can be attributed to video games.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Video games (like comics and rock and roll before them) are just useful scapegoats. They are used to deflect attention and focus away from what really matters.
What really matters? Individual people, and their rights as well as *responsibilities*. Both "progressives" as well as "conservatives" tend to be collectivists. The state, and its power is at the very heart of their ideology. Lacking that power, they would not be able to inflict their ideology on others.
By shifting the focus to violent video games (or guns for that matter), they appear to be "doing something" about the problems, when in reality, its all sound bites and feel good emotional nonsense. This has happened countless times, through out the generations before. Until people start to critically examine their basic assumptions, this will not change.
We might well be more criminal than the US, I haven't looked into it, however far less people die because guns aren't available. That's the point, not that Americans are worse but the lack of gun controls in the US leads to the far higher homicide rate.
"It's a sandbox, if you are not willing to create a castle then all you have is sand" - jtcgs
They're are weird exceptions, like over here London is the wealthiest big city, but also has the highest crime, where as Sheffield is one of the poorest big cities but has the lowest crime rare of them. But generally speaking, the less money people have, especially compared to their nearby neighborhoods, the higher the crime rate.
Alot of people are arguing about or perhaps have an interest in the most or least violent countries. Here is the Global Peace Index findings for 2012 published by the Institute for Economics and Peace. I have no hog in this battle, just thought I'd post it. As an aside, I own 4 shotguns, 6 rifles, a muzzleloader and a pistol. I also have some boxcutters, scissors, a sword on the wall, a couple axes and a weedwhacker. I have no intention of harming anyone with them.
The US was 88th of 158 countries while the brits were 29th. Enjoy!
Top 10
(Most Peaceful Countries)
Rank Country Score
1 Iceland 1.113
2 Denmark 1.239
2 New Zealand 1.239
4 Canada 1.317
5 Japan 1.326
6 Austria 1.328
6 Ireland 1.328
8 Slovenia 1.330
9 Finland 1.348
10 Switzerland 1.349
Bottom 10
(Least Peaceful Countries)
Rank Country Score
158 Somalia 3.392
157 Afghanistan 3.252
156 Sudan 3.193
155 Iraq 3.192
154 Dem. Republic of Congo 3.073
153 Russia 2.938
152 North Korea 2.932
151 Central African Republic 2.872
150 Israel 2.842
149 Pakistan 2.833
source: http://www.visionofhumanity.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/2012GPI-Fact-Sheet2.pdf
interactive map: http://www.visionofhumanity.org/gpi-data/
After reading through this thread I've come to the following conclusions.
1. We are all friggin nuts in our own way
2. Mankind is a violent creature
3. Banning of video games, violent or otherwise is ridiculous
Now for my input,
First off, yes I am one of those gun-totting, fanatical, crazy, Americans that everyone around the world loves to hate. I have played video games dating all the back to the atari 2600, I have watched cartoons as a youngster and as an adult. I have been using firearms for fun since about 8 years of age. I own multiple firearms from a SEMI-automatic AR-15 to multiple types of hunting rifles some with scoops some without and pistols as well. I could list reasons for the legittimate ownership of every single gun I own based off of personel feeling and activities I do but I will not do so for your sanity as this post is already going to be long.
The thought of banning video game, movies, or the like is complete stupidity IMO. The thought of these being the root cause of violent acts is so rediculous to me, Im still having trouble beleiving we are having this discussion. We as a species are violent in nature we pass laws that try to restrict that nature through fear of what will be done to us as a result of breaking them Blaming an object for the ways in which it was used is stupidity of the finest form.
Now as far as gun banning, not to pop ya'lls bubbles but just to the south of the good old USA is Mexico. A country with some of the strictes gun laws in the west but look at the gun violence that occrs there.
IMO the viloence problem is a social issue that is not going to be fixed anytime soon. Some of the oldest cultures in the world are the most viloent. Someone with the intent to do harm in their heart is going to do harm weather it be with a gun, a knife, a bat, or rock they pick up off the ground. Mass vilence has been around since man began gathering in mass so should we then stop gathering.
All we can do as a people is to try to identify those that need help and get them that help as fast as possible.
Ive rambled enough and wasted enough of your time with this post .
So have a wonderful and great day folks
To give feedback on moderation, contact mikeb@mmorpg.com
OH yes I can. In fact I can with equal laziness put forward the idea that video games actually reduce violence, by giving people an outlet. With at least as much value as your statement.
This is a lot like "pornography must cause people to commit pedophilia".
That there is some fuzzy "common sense" connection between things....doesn't make it so. And people using that fuzzy, lazy "common sense" are a terror, imo.
---------------------------
Rose-lipped maidens,
Light-foot lads...
That is complete BS. You can be drug off via emergency petition at the drop of a hat. You don't have to actually do anything wrong, say anything wrong, break any law, etc. All it takes is someone (ANYONE) picking up a phone and saying you are suicidal or that you might be dangerous, or making up whatever they want about you and the police will happily come (like 20 of them) to wherever you are, handcuff you, and kidnap you on the spot and haul you off to an emergency room for an evaluation. At that point you're either going to be evaluated and released right away, or they will keep you for up to 72 hours (3 days). It's honestly a 50/50 chance which one will happen, and it depends on a number of factors. Regardless, your day is being ruined for sure. And all of this is BEFORE any sort of actual commitment.
Yeah, unless you've gone to school for this stuff, you know people who have been through it, or you yourself have been through it... you have no idea how easy it actually is to make someone disappear into the system, at least for a while. I've also seen it abused MANY times. Ex-spouses, upset family members or friends, disgruntled employees. It gets abused all the time for many reasons. That's why they tend to do the 72 hour hold prior to any sort of real commitment, because it gives doctors a chance to truly observe someone and see what if any danger they do present. The majority of the time they don't present any danger to anyone.
darkedone02
If you're going to move to another country, please make sure you know how to speak/write in their language, because your English is absolutely atrocious.
It's a VERY EFFECTIVE outlet as well, as long as you don't run into anyone who's using hacks/cheats (then it has the opposite effect).
Don't insult your readers intelligence. A gun is not a spoon. False Analogy. You keep trying diffrent ones thinking it makes any diffrence.
Guns are used to kill living things, automatic weapons, handguns, are designed to KILL PEOPLE. Pro or anti gun control, this FACT remains no matter what silly false analogy you want use. Hunting is just a smoke screen since a single shot rifle is plenty good enough for any hunter.
Ad hom is a distraction tactic used to try and take away someones credibility when the facts of the argument are no longer working for them. Where I live, what race or nationality I am, what I eat for breakfast, or whether or not I am a poo poo brain, all are irrelevant to the argument made. The argument that you still don’t seem to want to think about.
So I will ask it again.
Do we want to make it harder or easier for mass murderers to slaughter large amounts of people?