Why do people always complain about cash shops in free to play games? Everyone bitches about subscription models..then they bitch about cash shops. I agree that being able to buy some overpowered weapon that will one shot everyone you come in contact with should not be in cash shops..and for most games they arent. So, what the hell do you guys think should be in cash shops? Cosmetics only? Get real, these company spend millions on development and need just as much to keep servers running and new content incoming, they're gonna put stuff in the shop that will actually turn a profit.
Yep you guessed it, they care more about making money than protecting your fragile little egos. I know that sound mean, but all I see is people saying that someone else might progress quicker than they will. Don't like that idea? Then you should play a subscription model game, because one way or the other they HAVE to turn a PROFIT...that's just the way the real world works.
Why do people always complain about cash shops in free to play games? Everyone bitches about subscription models..then they bitch about cash shops. I agree that being able to buy some overpowered weapon that will one shot everyone you come in contact with should not be in cash shops..and for most games they arent. So, what the hell do you guys think should be in cash shops? Cosmetics only? Get real, these company spend millions on development and need just as much to keep servers running and new content incoming, they're gonna put stuff in the shop that will actually turn a profit.
Yep you guessed it, they care more about making money than protecting your fragile little egos. I know that sound mean, but all I see is people saying that someone else might progress quicker than they will. Don't like that idea? Then you should play a subscription model game, because one way or the other they HAVE to turn a PROFIT...that's just the way the real world works.
Didn't have to read the whole thing but this is not free2play it has subscription.
Why do people always complain about cash shops in free to play games? Everyone bitches about subscription models..then they bitch about cash shops. I agree that being able to buy some overpowered weapon that will one shot everyone you come in contact with should not be in cash shops..and for most games they arent. So, what the hell do you guys think should be in cash shops? Cosmetics only? Get real, these company spend millions on development and need just as much to keep servers running and new content incoming, they're gonna put stuff in the shop that will actually turn a profit.
Yep you guessed it, they care more about making money than protecting your fragile little egos. I know that sound mean, but all I see is people saying that someone else might progress quicker than they will. Don't like that idea? Then you should play a subscription model game, because one way or the other they HAVE to turn a PROFIT...that's just the way the real world works.
Didn't have to read the whole thing but this is not free2play it has subscription.
Yep, there is an optional sub. What's the problem?
Man I feel like I ripped these guys off paying only 9$ back in november. I feel like I owe them lol.
Originally posted by stiz4shiz Oh, I was unaware of the subscription. Thought it was free to play with optional cash shop only.
F2P or sub $9/month and get stuff like offline cultivation, and offline shop.
I see, I have a beta key but havent had the time to check it out yet. I was just saying that I think it's wrong for people to damn games for selling non-cosmetics in cash shops. A lot of people put a lot of work into projects like this... and they gotta pay their bills and feed their family just like the rest of us. Making money is part of running a company. I see nothing wrong with it as long as it's not overly unfair.
Sounds P2W to me and the videos I have seen make the game look really bad. Not into martial arts and def not into douchbaggery style game play. i.e. kidnapping and asshatery playstyles so I'll pass. Stick to carebear themeparks thank you very much.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
It's about as pay to win as games that sell XP boosters or Eve where you have plex system.
The FEAR of P2W comes in how they monetize the game in China where everyone maxes out and all of a sudden snail puts some mega skill on the cash shopfor a high price. (yes in the CN version you can buy skills on the cash shop).
I am plodding along in the game preogressing like a normal person, I purchased a little gold from a promotion for the anniversary which had some perks, but it is just sitting in the bank.
For now the game is very enjoyable, just hope they don't screw it up and monetize it like the CN version.
No matter how you chop it up, its P2W in some form, whether or not its acceptable is up to you the user.
Thing is, if your going to call Age of Wushu P2W, then you need to say that GW2 is P2W as well as it has the same type of system in place, and in an even stronger form due to the fact you can basically trade for the best gear and gold having a big value in WvW for seige items to boost your ability to perform.
Basically, if your going to call Age of Wushu P2W, your going have to claim other games are P2W as well, and in that form just how much 'P2W' they are will depend greatly on what the user views P2W as.
Or Path of Exile, or Rift, or most any other game out there. I don't really care about p2w in any game becuase they all monetize the game in some way that you're better off paying than not.
It's abysmal community in this game that puts me off. Look at some of the posts. They make the GW2 hivemind look like your best beer drinking buddies.
While Rift doesn't have a cash shop (the groundwork was laid yes, but it is currently empty), I did find this post really amusing and truthful. That last sentence made my day, Thanks Torv
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV Have played: You name it If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
It's about as pay to win as games that sell XP boosters or Eve where you have plex system.
The FEAR of P2W comes in how they monetize the game in China where everyone maxes out and all of a sudden snail puts some mega skill on the cash shopfor a high price. (yes in the CN version you can buy skills on the cash shop).
I am plodding along in the game preogressing like a normal person, I purchased a little gold from a promotion for the anniversary which had some perks, but it is just sitting in the bank.
For now the game is very enjoyable, just hope they don't screw it up and monetize it like the CN version.
This /
[mod edit] What I am worried about is when/if snail actually puts in a pay2win element the constant p2w buzzing background noise will have been going on so long they will not notice genuine customer disdain for such an element. The CN version of this game is pay2win in fact you have some people who have experienced it trolling the U.S. version just because of that fact.
But snail US has said they do not want to be pay2win so I hope they can stick to that. Keep the cash shop cosmetic and everything should be OK.
If someone can BUY gear that I can still get but get it sooner then yes it is P2W. Say it takes me 2 weeks to grind for mats for an awesome sword but someone can just buy it then thye do have an advantage. Same with GW2 gem system. IF I can buy a SHIT load of gems and convert them to gold to buy amazing gear then its still a form of P2W it just doesnt work all to well due to TERRIBLE exchange rates...
Playing: FFXIV, DnL, and World of Warships Waiting on: Ashes of Creation
For this to become a Pay to win game the players in this game need to pay to win, but right now they are just paying for a head start. You can't buy anything in RL money that will get you weapons that no other player can get, nor can you buy armour that no other player can get. If you are a low level and just bought all these weapons and gear after transferring all your gold you just purchased into silver, then you will come to the sad realisation that gear means nothing. For those who think this game is P2W, please go invest some time into this game, PvP against other characters, then tell us how all your purchased gear and weapons with RL money gave you so much of an advantage that you were unbeatable. Because that sounds more pay 2 win to me, then what this really is...
The current max gear in the game right now is Silver item , you can craft it so easily , or you can buy from trade market . If you are a fucking lazy person , even like that you can buy a piece of a silver item everyday , and that is for someone really lazy.
Items in this game plays no big part in power as some other games. Its just a bit more defense and boost status , thats the max you can dow for now. - I learned this when I bought all my silver equipament in the first day I deposit some money in this game , and got raped in pvp by NAKED GUYS. Yes im Bad at pvp , yes they are good , but what I mean is , this game is not like other games where u buy max gear and ppl hit you 1 , and you hit them 100.
So if you want to buy gold and convert to silver to buy items now , you are completly dumbass , because you can get the full set enchanted within 1 week of good work , and even like that I dont think its really worth to waste money on gears right now , nothing out there to make you overpowered , so in my opinion you should craft ur own gear and concentrate on being a better pvper.
Actually the current max level for items is Jade quality. It has 6 upgrade slots compared to silvers 4 upgrade slots. It also sells for about 20 ding a pop, and yes there are people buying it for 20 ding a piece.
As far as the "gear doesn't matter much" arguement. The people that make this argument are the same people that have no damn clue how gear works in the game. These are the people that are running around on a royal guard with yin & softness gear, because they don't understand how itemization in the game works. And how to best gear out thier characters.
A propperly geared character has a massive advantage over someone who isn't properly geared. If you think this isn't true, you haven't fought someone who is properly geared yet.
Honestly, with skills capping out, I see no difference between a character with everything who didn't pay and a character with everything that paid thousands. In the end they both have the same shit.
When I hear "Pay to Win" I think of something you HAVE to buy to be competitive. Like the best weapon in the game only being available for 30 bucks in the cash shop, with no way to get it in the game. AoW isn't that at all.
Having said all that, can a player pay real money to get to max lvl/gear faster? Sure can. It's hideoously expensive, I wouldn't do it, even if I could. AoW is more of a "the journey is more fun the destination" type game for me. I don't feel the need to skip ahead. The option is there if you want it though.
But on the other hand, I don't really care. People have been been buying fully geared characters since e-bay started. Nothing new. You can buy gold in WoW, ISK for EvE etc. If people's money is worth less to them than the time they have to put into the game to enjoy it, more power to them. No one has been able to stop it. I don't see why the game company shouldn't profit instead of e-bay, or gold sellers. It's called the capitalism. @#$% Off if you don't like it. Life is P2W go complain about that.
As I see it AoW has 3 payment models.
Free to Play
P2P-Buy the game w/Subscription
And.. If you give us more money than a reasonable human being would, you can have it all in less time. Have fun being overpowered for a week, oh wait... Too late. There are already tons of people just like you that didn't pay us 2000 dollars to level faster. GG thanks for the money!
Paying 1500 dollars to max internal skills is Pay to Lose. LOL. I'm sure people have done this kind of thing and it's pretty sad. Especially with offline cultivation you can max your internal in a couple weeks or so. So the pay to lose guy pays 1500 dollars and has to play the game anyway to get experience to cultivate, and the non retarded player just plays the game doing fun things casually and ends up the same as the retard in a couple weeks time, except for without having to waste 1500 dollars.
Are you a Pavlovian Fish Biscuit Addict? Get Help Now! I will play no more MMORPGs until somethign good comes out!
I haven't played AoW, and have no real beef with it, doesn't intrests me.
However, maybe because I've been around these forums for a long time now, maybe any given number of reasons..but anytime I see someone with their first posts being promoting a game, to be more specific a foreign game, and their post is full of spelling errors and grammatical errors makes me very, very, very suspicious.
I'm going to go ahead and say the OP has some sort of investment in AoW...are they an employee? who know's but I've become real jaded by these types of posts.
Something more is going on here, I find it very hard to believe that some random player got so interested in the game they felt the need to create an account at mmorpg.com and for their very first post defend the games cash shop model...
"I will buy gold conver to silver and buy all max gear haha I will own muahaha":
The current max gear in the game right now is Silver item , you can craft it so easily , or you can buy from trade market . If you are a fucking lazy person , even like that you can buy a piece of a silver item everyday , and that is for someone really lazy.
thats pay to win for my personal definition -- opinions will vary
I agree, if there is a system in game that allows a player to pay more money then another player, to aqurie something that makes him more powerfull, in any way no matter how small, you are paying to win, period end of story.
Whether you do win or not is another discussion, but the avenue is there and the developer proftis. I dont have a problem with people wasting there money in a cash shop but I dont have a problem when the things I want are only in the cash shop and the cost to play without bring massivly inconvienced becomes greater than a sub game. Which happens quite frequently and the cost not couple of bucks more its allot more.
So according to your conspiracy theory, Snail USA decides after 3 months of beta testing to create an mmorpg.com account this week, defending their cash shop model with an OP full of swear words and typos? Whoa, just whoa lol
A tad bit of info for you: The NA AOW server has a truly multicultural and multilingual player base.
I think everyone who has ever posted on MMORPG has been accused of being an employee of a company, which means we are all co workers.....so we have to pretend to like each other why we secretly cut each others throat on our rise up the corporate/company ladder.
I haven't played AoW, and have no real beef with it, doesn't intrests me.
However, maybe because I've been around these forums for a long time now, maybe any given number of reasons..but anytime I see someone with their first posts being promoting a game, to be more specific a foreign game, and their post is full of spelling errors and grammatical errors makes me very, very, very suspicious.
I'm going to go ahead and say the OP has some sort of investment in AoW...are they an employee? who know's but I've become real jaded by these types of posts.
Something more is going on here, I find it very hard to believe that some random player got so interested in the game they felt the need to create an account at mmorpg.com and for their very first post defend the games cash shop model...
So according to your conspiracy theory, Snail USA decides after 3 months of beta testing to create an mmorpg.com account this week, defending their cash shop model with an OP full of swear words and typos? Whoa, just whoa lol
A tad bit of info for you: The NA AOW server has a truly multicultural and multilingual player base.
Yes. Exactly my "theory" as I explained it in my post, down to a T. I believe you summed up well EXACTLY what I was trying to hint at in my post.
I think you utilize a little bit of straw-man and hyperbole. Do I think it would be completely far fetched for an employee of some gaming company to decide to pop on the forums here and start defending their game? Absolutly not. Do I think gaming companies, especially smaller ones might, from time to time have employee's post as regular 'players' on these forums to help promote their game? I definitly think it happens. Probably quite often.
I've posted what I found odd about the OP. Their very first post ever on the forums here is defending the cash shop model of a game that has been under scrutiny.
Do I think it's a company wide "Conspiracy"? I dunno, but I like how that's where you took it.
If someone is willing to pay 100 dollars to have a gear that everyone can get the EXACTLY same gear in a few days of playng.
Oh and that days he had ahead wont guarantee any win at all - far from it.
Yes he is payng , but tell me where the hell is he WINNING?
as such then it is also not about your "OPiNION" and 90% of your OP was opinion. ie what in your "Opinion" is pay to win and why in your "Opinion" anyone should bother to give the game a try.
A advantage of 1 weeks game play time (what are we talking here 40 hours or more?) that can be bought is P2W. Call it lazy if you want but for some that can make $100 in 2-4 hours or so of work its actually somewhat practicle. In this case the "WINNING" is the somewhat subjective being ahead with less time actually invested. Now if said player that goes in P@W also polays the game alot they will basically always be ahead and have a advantage over those that just play. ie investment of time and money will always be > then just investment of time.
The fact that you have to pay monthly to renew a graphic only skin sound like a serious greedy money grab. How exactly do they explain the reasoning for charging players for the same graphic skin time and time again? Its obvious;ly not to pay the devs or graphic artisits as the creation of said skin graphic is a one time investment and as such should be a one time charge. Heheh and don't tell us its a data storage cost for the graphic aas the actual turning on and off of the graphic (checking to see if its been paid for again etc) would cost far more.
We all know you can't buy anything in the Cash Shop right now as far as equipment and skills that aren't in game... The Pay 2 Win is not of your traditional kind. It's a more varied form of Paying to Win. Whatever really defines a Win in P2W? What the person is winning is not even really the important part here.
The important part is the amounts of irl cash that is being converterd into in game silver that is then used to purchase wares that are at outrageous prices. Purchasing these items at extream prices encourages those who are price gouging to continue to do so and gives them the reason to increase prices on stuff that is only slightly better..
Another thing I keep hearing. Gear doesn't matter.. That is true to an extent but gear is not useless by any means. It adds to hit points it adds to internal points. It adds to damage done and damage reduction. Gear matters.. Skill comes into play when perfoming combat moves properly and "out skilling" a opponnet.
If gear didn't matter then it would not change any stats and you wouldn't see people running around in gear thats all for their school stats and you wouldn't see how some of these players moves are able to kill others in a matter of seconds. Thats' not even the argument here but when I see that, it makes me laugh that people try to convince themselves that things like this do not have an effect on the outcome of fights.
The Paying to Win comes in the form of having to spend more and more just to be on the level playing field with the richest of the rich players. They will have much better gear than you and they will have skills from schools and the Jianghu ones that just makes them seem even more powered by the amounts of money they have put into the game.
They aren't the only player in the realm so of course it's not an absolute shutdwon the server win, but if you are ahead in the race you are currently winning.. amirite?
Originally posted by Kenshin_Himura It's a open pvp game so you can't compare it with other games if someone gets everything fast cause of real money it's paytowin he will kill other players that are not spending their paycheck in this game.
You are intentionally being dense with your argument now... You could spend a million dollars and it wont make a difference. Wait I lied you'll WOULD have been 2 weeks ahead.
Thats a pretty HUGE advantage for some people, since the P2W people can pay and play they will always be at least 2 weeks ahead of players that play every min they can.
Comments
Why do people always complain about cash shops in free to play games? Everyone bitches about subscription models..then they bitch about cash shops. I agree that being able to buy some overpowered weapon that will one shot everyone you come in contact with should not be in cash shops..and for most games they arent. So, what the hell do you guys think should be in cash shops? Cosmetics only? Get real, these company spend millions on development and need just as much to keep servers running and new content incoming, they're gonna put stuff in the shop that will actually turn a profit.
Yep you guessed it, they care more about making money than protecting your fragile little egos. I know that sound mean, but all I see is people saying that someone else might progress quicker than they will. Don't like that idea? Then you should play a subscription model game, because one way or the other they HAVE to turn a PROFIT...that's just the way the real world works.
Didn't have to read the whole thing but this is not free2play it has subscription.
Yep, there is an optional sub. What's the problem?
Man I feel like I ripped these guys off paying only 9$ back in november. I feel like I owe them lol.
F2P or sub $9/month and get stuff like offline cultivation, and offline shop.
I see, I have a beta key but havent had the time to check it out yet. I was just saying that I think it's wrong for people to damn games for selling non-cosmetics in cash shops. A lot of people put a lot of work into projects like this... and they gotta pay their bills and feed their family just like the rest of us. Making money is part of running a company. I see nothing wrong with it as long as it's not overly unfair.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
It's about as pay to win as games that sell XP boosters or Eve where you have plex system.
The FEAR of P2W comes in how they monetize the game in China where everyone maxes out and all of a sudden snail puts some mega skill on the cash shopfor a high price. (yes in the CN version you can buy skills on the cash shop).
I am plodding along in the game preogressing like a normal person, I purchased a little gold from a promotion for the anniversary which had some perks, but it is just sitting in the bank.
For now the game is very enjoyable, just hope they don't screw it up and monetize it like the CN version.
What are your other Hobbies?
Gaming is Dirt Cheap compared to this...
While Rift doesn't have a cash shop (the groundwork was laid yes, but it is currently empty), I did find this post really amusing and truthful. That last sentence made my day, Thanks Torv
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
This /
[mod edit] What I am worried about is when/if snail actually puts in a pay2win element the constant p2w buzzing background noise will have been going on so long they will not notice genuine customer disdain for such an element. The CN version of this game is pay2win in fact you have some people who have experienced it trolling the U.S. version just because of that fact.
But snail US has said they do not want to be pay2win so I hope they can stick to that. Keep the cash shop cosmetic and everything should be OK.
Playing: FFXIV, DnL, and World of Warships
Waiting on: Ashes of Creation
Actually the current max level for items is Jade quality. It has 6 upgrade slots compared to silvers 4 upgrade slots. It also sells for about 20 ding a pop, and yes there are people buying it for 20 ding a piece.
As far as the "gear doesn't matter much" arguement. The people that make this argument are the same people that have no damn clue how gear works in the game. These are the people that are running around on a royal guard with yin & softness gear, because they don't understand how itemization in the game works. And how to best gear out thier characters.
A propperly geared character has a massive advantage over someone who isn't properly geared. If you think this isn't true, you haven't fought someone who is properly geared yet.
Honestly, with skills capping out, I see no difference between a character with everything who didn't pay and a character with everything that paid thousands. In the end they both have the same shit.
When I hear "Pay to Win" I think of something you HAVE to buy to be competitive. Like the best weapon in the game only being available for 30 bucks in the cash shop, with no way to get it in the game. AoW isn't that at all.
Having said all that, can a player pay real money to get to max lvl/gear faster? Sure can. It's hideoously expensive, I wouldn't do it, even if I could. AoW is more of a "the journey is more fun the destination" type game for me. I don't feel the need to skip ahead. The option is there if you want it though.
But on the other hand, I don't really care. People have been been buying fully geared characters since e-bay started. Nothing new. You can buy gold in WoW, ISK for EvE etc. If people's money is worth less to them than the time they have to put into the game to enjoy it, more power to them. No one has been able to stop it. I don't see why the game company shouldn't profit instead of e-bay, or gold sellers. It's called the capitalism. @#$% Off if you don't like it. Life is P2W go complain about that.
As I see it AoW has 3 payment models.
Free to Play
P2P-Buy the game w/Subscription
And.. If you give us more money than a reasonable human being would, you can have it all in less time. Have fun being overpowered for a week, oh wait... Too late. There are already tons of people just like you that didn't pay us 2000 dollars to level faster. GG thanks for the money!
Are you a Pavlovian Fish Biscuit Addict? Get Help Now!
I will play no more MMORPGs until somethign good comes out!
this is the grandfather of all f2p games it has cashshop, gold sales and p2p, now which other games has all that atm.
fact game is fully optimized to get players to spend real cash to advance their toon only for the serious minded players.
so its a big PAY2WIN.
just saying.
I haven't played AoW, and have no real beef with it, doesn't intrests me.
However, maybe because I've been around these forums for a long time now, maybe any given number of reasons..but anytime I see someone with their first posts being promoting a game, to be more specific a foreign game, and their post is full of spelling errors and grammatical errors makes me very, very, very suspicious.
I'm going to go ahead and say the OP has some sort of investment in AoW...are they an employee? who know's but I've become real jaded by these types of posts.
Something more is going on here, I find it very hard to believe that some random player got so interested in the game they felt the need to create an account at mmorpg.com and for their very first post defend the games cash shop model...
I agree, if there is a system in game that allows a player to pay more money then another player, to aqurie something that makes him more powerfull, in any way no matter how small, you are paying to win, period end of story.
Whether you do win or not is another discussion, but the avenue is there and the developer proftis. I dont have a problem with people wasting there money in a cash shop but I dont have a problem when the things I want are only in the cash shop and the cost to play without bring massivly inconvienced becomes greater than a sub game. Which happens quite frequently and the cost not couple of bucks more its allot more.
So according to your conspiracy theory, Snail USA decides after 3 months of beta testing to create an mmorpg.com account this week, defending their cash shop model with an OP full of swear words and typos? Whoa, just whoa lol
A tad bit of info for you:
The NA AOW server has a truly multicultural and multilingual player base.
Yes. Exactly my "theory" as I explained it in my post, down to a T. I believe you summed up well EXACTLY what I was trying to hint at in my post.
I think you utilize a little bit of straw-man and hyperbole. Do I think it would be completely far fetched for an employee of some gaming company to decide to pop on the forums here and start defending their game? Absolutly not. Do I think gaming companies, especially smaller ones might, from time to time have employee's post as regular 'players' on these forums to help promote their game? I definitly think it happens. Probably quite often.
I've posted what I found odd about the OP. Their very first post ever on the forums here is defending the cash shop model of a game that has been under scrutiny.
Do I think it's a company wide "Conspiracy"? I dunno, but I like how that's where you took it.
as such then it is also not about your "OPiNION" and 90% of your OP was opinion. ie what in your "Opinion" is pay to win and why in your "Opinion" anyone should bother to give the game a try.
A advantage of 1 weeks game play time (what are we talking here 40 hours or more?) that can be bought is P2W. Call it lazy if you want but for some that can make $100 in 2-4 hours or so of work its actually somewhat practicle. In this case the "WINNING" is the somewhat subjective being ahead with less time actually invested. Now if said player that goes in P@W also polays the game alot they will basically always be ahead and have a advantage over those that just play. ie investment of time and money will always be > then just investment of time.
The fact that you have to pay monthly to renew a graphic only skin sound like a serious greedy money grab. How exactly do they explain the reasoning for charging players for the same graphic skin time and time again? Its obvious;ly not to pay the devs or graphic artisits as the creation of said skin graphic is a one time investment and as such should be a one time charge. Heheh and don't tell us its a data storage cost for the graphic aas the actual turning on and off of the graphic (checking to see if its been paid for again etc) would cost far more.
^This^ +1
Thats a pretty HUGE advantage for some people, since the P2W people can pay and play they will always be at least 2 weeks ahead of players that play every min they can.