I'm interested to see if such a niche game can meet its benchmark on funding. Even if it just barely scrapes by, that does not bode well for its ability to make money. I think the fund drive needs to be a huge success to prove once and for all that even a severley niche game can make a decent profit. Maybe then, other developers will step forward with their niche ideas and start moving the genre forward.
I won't be helping as PvP is not my niche, but I have my fingers crossed for you guys so that it may lead to my niche being brought forward in the future (PVE only, casual, sandpark, no raids, huge virtual world for exploration).
2 million is a pretty significant amount. Wont matter if it scrapes by or not, if it hits the 2 million people will take notice.
Niche games work, we already know this. EvE is as niche as it can get.
Niche games still have to be well made, thats why the darkfalls of the world fail.
I'm interested to see if such a niche game can meet its benchmark on funding. Even if it just barely scrapes by, that does not bode well for its ability to make money. I think the fund drive needs to be a huge success to prove once and for all that even a severley niche game can make a decent profit. Maybe then, other developers will step forward with their niche ideas and start moving the genre forward.
I won't be helping as PvP is not my niche, but I have my fingers crossed for you guys so that it may lead to my niche being brought forward in the future (PVE only, casual, sandpark, no raids, huge virtual world for exploration).
2 million is a pretty significant amount. Wont matter if it scrapes by or not, if it hits the 2 million people will take notice.
Niche games work, we already know this. EvE is as niche as it can get.
Niche games still have to be well made, thats why the darkfalls of the world fail.
That's my point, there needs to at least be a pattern of success and one niche game won't do that, but two is a good start and three would be even better. Maybe one could do it if it were a huge success on the scale of a AAA game.
LOL no one really likes PVE. And where have I mentioned that care about your opinion? I'm simply stating facts. If you eliminate the PVE, the game is no longer a MMO its a MOBA. And there are plenty of MOBA's out there right now that F2P. So asking for subs for another one will be ridiculous. In addition, EA has a Warhammer 3 realm MOBA already in place. Is this game going to surpass simply because "Camelot" is in the title?
Do you even know what the A in MOBA stands for? Let me help you: arena. There isn't anything about CU that is comparable to a MOBA's instanced arenas. The world will be non-instanced and persistent just like DAOC's and WAR's frontiers. I'm baffled why people keep trying to call CU a MOBA just because you don't have to kill 1,000,000 NPCs to level to 50 before you go RvR.
People are dumb, don't even bother, rofl. Calling CU a MOBA (Multiplayer online battle arena) and comparing it to games like DOTA, LOL, HON, etc., is one of the dumbest statements I have heard in awhile.
Lot of PVE discussion in this thread, not sure why, its not relevant to CU.
But I'll say my piece since its already been brought up. PVE is super repeatitive once you experience the content once, its no longer new, you know how to win, it becomes trivial even if it was once hard because you didnt know the correct strategy. Theres only been one PVE game that some how addicted me like crack, thats EQ1. The world was so vast, so unforgiving yet remained fun. The feeling is hard to explain and only those who played classic EQ1 will understand.
RVR is always challenging and unpredictable. Sure there is some repeatition such as the correct abilities to use in certain encounters but the human unpredictability factor makes PVP new and intense nearly every battle.
Where PVE shines is the relaxing, comfortable setting it places you in. Thats why there are PVEers who enjoy that and PVPers who prefer the adreniline rush of PVP.
Perhaps one day Daoc 2.0 or a derivative there of will spawn and give everyone the best of both worlds but until then UC will hopefully exist and satisfy RVR junkies needs.
The great thing about a RVR only game is they only have to balance classes vs each other and not also vs enviornment. Thus reducing the exponential balacing factor greatly. Allowing for even better , competitive PVP.
I believe the game will be funded via kickstarter because its indeed time. Time for a revolution without too much negative evolution. Evolution is good except when it changes the true core of what a MMORPG is. Old school games captured that and brought worlds to life. Will CU? If Mark's words in his blogs turn into factual programming. CU will devolve the degeneration that has occured in our beloved MMORPG genre.
Do you even know what the A in MOBA stands for? Let me help you: arena. There isn't anything about CU that is comparable to a MOBA's instanced arenas. The world will be non-instanced and persistent just like DAOC's and WAR's frontiers. I'm baffled why people keep trying to call CU a MOBA just because you don't have to kill 1,000,000 NPCs to level to 50 before you go RvR.
So the A stands for Arena you say? But where does it say instanced arena? And what world do you live in? The are boundaries on every game. "Open" RVR is still an arena. There are still places you cannot go. It may be bigger to allow more people but nevertheless, it is still a contained enviornment. the battlegrounds in DAoC were scaled down versions of the frontiers. And the frontiers were an area that you zoned into. It had its own rules separate from the PVE zones. It was an ARENA.
Originally posted by Tadder
My point is that there is nothing intrinsically special about PvE vs. PvP for developing groups and relationships in an MMO. It's more about how the developers design the system. If the Devs make it so everyone needs to gang up and defeat a PvE dungeon, while 8 guys can roam RvR by themselves without an incentive to group, then yea that may happen. But if the Devs make (like I hope CU will be) a system where large PvP groups are rewarded for getting together and melting faces and working together then the I don't see how that isn't social. What builds comradery is working or struggling for a common goal, and it doesn't matter if that common goal is leveling up in a dungeon or destroying a player held tower.
So you're basically hoping that the devs make a system that forces people to PVP together. Remeber the mantra of the salesman: know, like, and trust. As stressful as RVR is, people are not going to willing subject themselves to repetitive failure ie rage log.
Originally posted by lilwins
People are dumb, don't even bother, rofl. Calling CU a MOBA (Multiplayer online battle arena) and comparing it to games like DOTA, LOL, HON, etc., is one of the dumbest statements I have heard in awhile.
Please explain me to the difference between open rvr in WAR (minus siege) and say... max level LoL champs fully temped. Let's eliminate your immediate responses of size of team and map. Any experiment can be scaled up or down. I bet your "dumb" response doesn't even happen.
i played DAOC for about 4 years and then warhammer online for another 2 , thinking back the last thing that I would of done right from level 1 the first time I played WAR was jump into the realm vs realm zones. After playing for a few days and making an alt , knowing the basic mechanics etc I then went right into RvR naked for the titles and laughs. But saying that , I do feel like some pve is good . You could see that in DAOC and WAR, in DAOC beating on the doors of a keep and having to fight off guards allowed players to get to the keep and defend. This also worked very well in warhammer but then they changed the mechanics about a year ago and no one would defend keeps because they took the guards away and just made it so you had to get through the doors. People would leave and not defend the zerges and that caused a lot of headaches and pretty much sealed the deal with warhammer and why its down to just its hardcore few fans left.
I question if no pve will work at all also with this project and am aprehensive myself about a bit. I wont pass judgement myself until after I hear how this will work exactly. If its just a zone with a warcamp and you have to go out of the warcamp and get camped , this just wont interest me at all. But if they make it so objectives are not just run , avoid pvp and capture objectives I will be interested. The no pve thing just completely bugs me though honestly , I think guards , a DF style dungeon , and objectives with incentive to defend and fight over is what made realm vs realm a lot of fun.
MarkJacobsCEO City State EntertainmentMemberRarePosts: 649
Originally posted by cronius77
i played DAOC for about 4 years and then warhammer online for another 2 , thinking back the last thing that I would of done right from level 1 the first time I played WAR was jump into the realm vs realm zones. After playing for a few days and making an alt , knowing the basic mechanics etc I then went right into RvR naked for the titles and laughs. But saying that , I do feel like some pve is good . You could see that in DAOC and WAR, in DAOC beating on the doors of a keep and having to fight off guards allowed players to get to the keep and defend. This also worked very well in warhammer but then they changed the mechanics about a year ago and no one would defend keeps because they took the guards away and just made it so you had to get through the doors. People would leave and not defend the zerges and that caused a lot of headaches and pretty much sealed the deal with warhammer and why its down to just its hardcore few fans left.
I question if no pve will work at all also with this project and am aprehensive myself about a bit. I wont pass judgement myself until after I hear how this will work exactly. If its just a zone with a warcamp and you have to go out of the warcamp and get camped , this just wont interest me at all. But if they make it so objectives are not just run , avoid pvp and capture objectives I will be interested. The no pve thing just completely bugs me though honestly , I think guards , a DF style dungeon , and objectives with incentive to defend and fight over is what made realm vs realm a lot of fun.
Understandable but please don't confuse "No PvE or no PvE/levling" with "No DF" (or anything like that). There's more than one way to skin a dragon.
i played DAOC for about 4 years and then warhammer online for another 2 , thinking back the last thing that I would of done right from level 1 the first time I played WAR was jump into the realm vs realm zones. After playing for a few days and making an alt , knowing the basic mechanics etc I then went right into RvR naked for the titles and laughs. But saying that , I do feel like some pve is good . You could see that in DAOC and WAR, in DAOC beating on the doors of a keep and having to fight off guards allowed players to get to the keep and defend. This also worked very well in warhammer but then they changed the mechanics about a year ago and no one would defend keeps because they took the guards away and just made it so you had to get through the doors. People would leave and not defend the zerges and that caused a lot of headaches and pretty much sealed the deal with warhammer and why its down to just its hardcore few fans left.
I question if no pve will work at all also with this project and am aprehensive myself about a bit. I wont pass judgement myself until after I hear how this will work exactly. If its just a zone with a warcamp and you have to go out of the warcamp and get camped , this just wont interest me at all. But if they make it so objectives are not just run , avoid pvp and capture objectives I will be interested. The no pve thing just completely bugs me though honestly , I think guards , a DF style dungeon , and objectives with incentive to defend and fight over is what made realm vs realm a lot of fun.
Understandable but please don't confuse "No PvE or no PvE/levling" with "No DF" (or anything like that). There's more than one way to skin a dragon.
Well I do remember in one of your earlier FP's you mentioned that almost everything added to the game would be focused around RVR. A DF like dungeon in the heart f the RVR battlefield could most definitely fulfill that statement. So I do have my fingers crossed as well. Stick some of the highest end resources nodes at the bottom of it to craft the best items. Bam open world, tri realm, ground zero lol.
i played DAOC for about 4 years and then warhammer online for another 2 , thinking back the last thing that I would of done right from level 1 the first time I played WAR was jump into the realm vs realm zones. After playing for a few days and making an alt , knowing the basic mechanics etc I then went right into RvR naked for the titles and laughs. But saying that , I do feel like some pve is good . You could see that in DAOC and WAR, in DAOC beating on the doors of a keep and having to fight off guards allowed players to get to the keep and defend. This also worked very well in warhammer but then they changed the mechanics about a year ago and no one would defend keeps because they took the guards away and just made it so you had to get through the doors. People would leave and not defend the zerges and that caused a lot of headaches and pretty much sealed the deal with warhammer and why its down to just its hardcore few fans left.
I question if no pve will work at all also with this project and am aprehensive myself about a bit. I wont pass judgement myself until after I hear how this will work exactly. If its just a zone with a warcamp and you have to go out of the warcamp and get camped , this just wont interest me at all. But if they make it so objectives are not just run , avoid pvp and capture objectives I will be interested. The no pve thing just completely bugs me though honestly , I think guards , a DF style dungeon , and objectives with incentive to defend and fight over is what made realm vs realm a lot of fun.
Understandable but please don't confuse "No PvE or no PvE/levling" with "No DF" (or anything like that). There's more than one way to skin a dragon.
oh no im not , I know you can get creative with it . Im just saying that guards in realm vs realm and keep lords did play a pivitol role in slowing down an enemy on a keep and allowing a realm to rally buying time. I was there from the beginning and what people are not here mentioning is the 4am relic raids , the log off night shifters who would try to ninja keeps at night etc , I think a lot of people are forgetting all the grief and fuss those things caused back in the day. I like the idea of no pve environments , every place is a realm vs realm zone with objectives and thats how you grow stronger or level , but it worries me if there is no equalizer that will allow players to get time and rally together to defend keeps etc . You get my drift Im sure .
Comments
2 million is a pretty significant amount. Wont matter if it scrapes by or not, if it hits the 2 million people will take notice.
Niche games work, we already know this. EvE is as niche as it can get.
Niche games still have to be well made, thats why the darkfalls of the world fail.
That's my point, there needs to at least be a pattern of success and one niche game won't do that, but two is a good start and three would be even better. Maybe one could do it if it were a huge success on the scale of a AAA game.
People are dumb, don't even bother, rofl. Calling CU a MOBA (Multiplayer online battle arena) and comparing it to games like DOTA, LOL, HON, etc., is one of the dumbest statements I have heard in awhile.
Lot of PVE discussion in this thread, not sure why, its not relevant to CU.
But I'll say my piece since its already been brought up. PVE is super repeatitive once you experience the content once, its no longer new, you know how to win, it becomes trivial even if it was once hard because you didnt know the correct strategy. Theres only been one PVE game that some how addicted me like crack, thats EQ1. The world was so vast, so unforgiving yet remained fun. The feeling is hard to explain and only those who played classic EQ1 will understand.
RVR is always challenging and unpredictable. Sure there is some repeatition such as the correct abilities to use in certain encounters but the human unpredictability factor makes PVP new and intense nearly every battle.
Where PVE shines is the relaxing, comfortable setting it places you in. Thats why there are PVEers who enjoy that and PVPers who prefer the adreniline rush of PVP.
Perhaps one day Daoc 2.0 or a derivative there of will spawn and give everyone the best of both worlds but until then UC will hopefully exist and satisfy RVR junkies needs.
The great thing about a RVR only game is they only have to balance classes vs each other and not also vs enviornment. Thus reducing the exponential balacing factor greatly. Allowing for even better , competitive PVP.
I believe the game will be funded via kickstarter because its indeed time. Time for a revolution without too much negative evolution. Evolution is good except when it changes the true core of what a MMORPG is. Old school games captured that and brought worlds to life. Will CU? If Mark's words in his blogs turn into factual programming. CU will devolve the degeneration that has occured in our beloved MMORPG genre.
So the A stands for Arena you say? But where does it say instanced arena? And what world do you live in? The are boundaries on every game. "Open" RVR is still an arena. There are still places you cannot go. It may be bigger to allow more people but nevertheless, it is still a contained enviornment. the battlegrounds in DAoC were scaled down versions of the frontiers. And the frontiers were an area that you zoned into. It had its own rules separate from the PVE zones. It was an ARENA.
So you're basically hoping that the devs make a system that forces people to PVP together. Remeber the mantra of the salesman: know, like, and trust. As stressful as RVR is, people are not going to willing subject themselves to repetitive failure ie rage log.
i played DAOC for about 4 years and then warhammer online for another 2 , thinking back the last thing that I would of done right from level 1 the first time I played WAR was jump into the realm vs realm zones. After playing for a few days and making an alt , knowing the basic mechanics etc I then went right into RvR naked for the titles and laughs. But saying that , I do feel like some pve is good . You could see that in DAOC and WAR, in DAOC beating on the doors of a keep and having to fight off guards allowed players to get to the keep and defend. This also worked very well in warhammer but then they changed the mechanics about a year ago and no one would defend keeps because they took the guards away and just made it so you had to get through the doors. People would leave and not defend the zerges and that caused a lot of headaches and pretty much sealed the deal with warhammer and why its down to just its hardcore few fans left.
I question if no pve will work at all also with this project and am aprehensive myself about a bit. I wont pass judgement myself until after I hear how this will work exactly. If its just a zone with a warcamp and you have to go out of the warcamp and get camped , this just wont interest me at all. But if they make it so objectives are not just run , avoid pvp and capture objectives I will be interested. The no pve thing just completely bugs me though honestly , I think guards , a DF style dungeon , and objectives with incentive to defend and fight over is what made realm vs realm a lot of fun.
Understandable but please don't confuse "No PvE or no PvE/levling" with "No DF" (or anything like that). There's more than one way to skin a dragon.
Mark Jacobs
CEO, City State Entertainment
Well I do remember in one of your earlier FP's you mentioned that almost everything added to the game would be focused around RVR. A DF like dungeon in the heart f the RVR battlefield could most definitely fulfill that statement. So I do have my fingers crossed as well. Stick some of the highest end resources nodes at the bottom of it to craft the best items. Bam open world, tri realm, ground zero lol.
oh no im not , I know you can get creative with it . Im just saying that guards in realm vs realm and keep lords did play a pivitol role in slowing down an enemy on a keep and allowing a realm to rally buying time. I was there from the beginning and what people are not here mentioning is the 4am relic raids , the log off night shifters who would try to ninja keeps at night etc , I think a lot of people are forgetting all the grief and fuss those things caused back in the day. I like the idea of no pve environments , every place is a realm vs realm zone with objectives and thats how you grow stronger or level , but it worries me if there is no equalizer that will allow players to get time and rally together to defend keeps etc . You get my drift Im sure .
can't really see this game going anywhere.