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Speed classes required for skilled groups in RvR
DeanMalinco
Member Posts: 26
There are many topics in this forum that touch on areas that made DAoC RvR combat unique (and work better than any other game). I tried searching around before posting this and didn't find much. If there is already a thread please merge my post or delete it.
One of the key things that made it possible for 8 man groups to function was the speed class for each realm (Minstrel, Bard, Skald). These classes in each group allowed for your 8 man to separate itself from the zerg. You could hit and run the zerg kiting and get away if executed safely. You could circle around with speed until you found the best engagement angle on another 8 man.
Sure, some groups within the zerg will also have this class as well. But if they want to chase your 8 man down they may be picking a fight that they do not want to take away from their zerg buddies. Also, the introduction to SOS and groups running speed 6 (with an endurance chant class) helped separate these groups even further.
In GW2 you can see the issue clearly. There is no way to separate yourself from the rest of the zerg....so everyone is forced to just ball up and move from 1 keep to the next. Having a speed class also allows for small groups of players to RvR with effeciency without a full group. 2-4 players can pick off stragglers and work on small objectives with the safety of knowing their speed can help them escape.
What do you guys think about how speed was handled in DAoC ? What improvements could be made in v2.0 (Camelot Unchained)?
Comments
I agree. I remember, because I was part of the "alb zerg" on alb/lanc a lot of the times.
When an alb zerg would move from place to place, we would typically run at the slowest groups speed (usually caster speed).
We might have 1, possibly two groups with minstrel speed flanking and scouting for us.
It was a fun game of cat and mouse, because small/fast hib/mid groups would hit at our flanks and stragglers, and sometimes the zerg would catch them, sometimes it wouldn't.
I'm sure it made battle for our fast flank groups with those small groups of mid/hibs exciting too, because the mids/hibs would try to end the fight quickly, because they knew they couldn't stick around too long or the zerg would show up.
Also if the zerg was taking a keep, the hib/mid small groups would try to intercept all reinforcement groups coming in to help. That usually bought them more time for the rest of their forces to gather to defend the keep.
I agree though. Mobility and deployment, where & when & how fast is a huge strategic piece of that kind of combat. I enjoyed it too. it was like a macro game of chess, on top of the micro game of our individual character and abilities.
MMO history - EVE GW2 SWTOR RIFT WAR COH/V EQ2 WOW DAOC
Tuktz - http://www.heretic.shivtr.com/
http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/PerfArt
CU needs speed class, I just hope CSE doesn't foul up the class as Mythic did in DAoC by adding in stealth (and I think one realm got climbing as well?) to one or more realms but not too all realms.
Midranki - To us, Thidranki Faste is not just some center keep, it's our field Guild Hall.
Camelot Unchained's Kickstarter - Warrior Forever
DAOC Live (inactive): R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R6 Healer
I like this idea...but since the game is based in an RvR area only I think that the hastner speed buff from keeps or supply points would be better than castable. Same concept though, broken when attacked.
What about AE speed like in DAoC? should this be in the game to help speed the zerg up...and should it be capped at universal speed, say....150% like you mentioned above? IMO, I think AE speed should be removed and the only way to gain speed buffs from a player would be to have them in your group.
As a former Skald and lover of speed in any game, yes... it is a great element in the game.
Ah yes I forgot my motto from my speed characters "speed is life!"
All rogue classes were able to climb certain points on keep walls. I believe archer classes received that ability as well. It's actually not a terrible mechanic. A good group of stealthers was as important as siege weapons for the big keep takes. As long as stealth is kept as a utility and doesn't allow god mode (which is where a lot of mmos go wrong).
As far as speed classes go. I'm all for it. I find not everyone moving at the same speed all of the time adds some strategy to pvp. Groups of slower movers should keep together, strength in numbers, and they can be harder to hit because of their numbers. While faster groups can act as forward scouts and can harrass enemy lines.
Archers never recieved the ability to climb walls, unless it has been within the last couple years. They did recieve one level of "safe fall" however.
Emeryc Eightdrakes - Ranger of DragonMyst Keep - Percival
RED IS DEAD!
Why did stealth foul up DAOC? Ugh did you get ganked one too many times? Stealthers did nothing but increase the unique nature and "surprise effect" while roaming.
So selfish of people to blame stealthers for ruining anything in a game.
Ozek - DAOC
Niix - Other games that sucked
/signed. Also.. no croc ring. thx. You wanna zerg? you biiiig, you strooooong, you hit stuff... and you move slower, end of story.
Funny how the lack of speed class has been reported as a serious flaw by the community(ies?) in every possible game since daoc, and no one picked up on that (WAR included *cough cough*).
Let's hope devs will finally drop the "we know best" attitude on this subject and LISTEN to the community' reasonable constructive feedback, for a change.
I think he was referring to Minstrels and the fact that they had stealth AND speed.
Emeryc Eightdrakes - Ranger of DragonMyst Keep - Percival
RED IS DEAD!