I have always thought an MMORPG where a player who had surmounted "obstacle here" could control a BOSS mob - with a arsenal of powerful abilities. As a player, how fun would it be to rampage across the countryside destroying capital cities as a giant monster? You would have a meter (as the boss) that would tell you which player was causing the most damage at that moment.
Players would band together to defeat the BOSS. I think the "fear" would be in knowing that the monster was beiing controlled by a real player and at any moment it would zero in on you and all the running in the world wouldn't cause it to lose aggro. Seems like it would be fun for all.
Consequence = danger, everyone knows it, no one wants it given the choice.
Example: eq progression servers with 99% old players who played back when you had to run back and get corpse within 6? hours or your gear were lost. There was a vote to use that old system or the new system where you could only gain xp by running back, but never loose gear - The vote went against the old death penalty system. It is funny how that works, everyone knew the old system would give the real feeling they wanted from re-playing eq, but they took the easy way out, and thus never got what they came back for.
For a game company it is just a question of numbers, consequence = x number of hardcore players staying in the game, no consequence = y number of players staying in the game; y > x, game = business = y is the choice.
Hardcore in ARPGs or some mmorpgs pvp servers would be the closest you come to consequence at the moment, but it sure would be nice to see some mmorpgs have some kind of consequence design build in, maybe optional to reach both the hardcore and the casual customer segment.
Consequence = danger, everyone knows it, no one wants it given the choice.
Small point of order: there exists a category of griefers who don't care at all what happens to their character so long as they get to harvest tears from other players. They feel empowered, not endangered by a game with consequences.
Tension is the correct term here, not fear. A good game will continually build suspense, in the case of many MMOs this is something as simple as watching your HP fall ever closer to zero as a fight continues until the moment of release where you or your enemy drops dead. Hauling cargo in EVE it stems from never knowing who is watching, or what is waiting for you on the other side of that gate.
Killing ten rats in a basement is an exercise in tedium, until you give those rats the ability to inflict a crippling (and I'm not talking "you got rat aids, -1 constitution") disease. Suddenly each hit acquires new meaning as you wait for that inevitable moment when you contract whatever unpleasantness they're carrying. In an effort to appeal to a wider, younger audience games ignore these basic rules in favour of streamlined content with little to no consequence for failure. Most people don't like losing, believe it or not. We're expected to suffer mediocre gameplay for their sake.
As for an example of it done right, counting shadows in FFXI gave me most of my "oh shit" moments in gaming. Mis-clicks wiping out timers,AoEs or double/triple attacks tearing down your shadows in seconds, or a timer coming up as you're on your last legs. It remains one of the most engaging and rewarding tanking mechanics I have seen in nearly a decade.
Consequence = danger, everyone knows it, no one wants it given the choice.
Example: eq progression servers with 99% old players who played back when you had to run back and get corpse within 6? hours or your gear were lost. There was a vote to use that old system or the new system where you could only gain xp by running back, but never loose gear - The vote went against the old death penalty system. It is funny how that works, everyone knew the old system would give the real feeling they wanted from re-playing eq, but they took the easy way out, and thus never got what they came back for.
For a game company it is just a question of numbers, consequence = x number of hardcore players staying in the game, no consequence = y number of players staying in the game; y > x, game = business = y is the choice.
Hardcore in ARPGs or some mmorpgs pvp servers would be the closest you come to consequence at the moment, but it sure would be nice to see some mmorpgs have some kind of consequence design build in, maybe optional to reach both the hardcore and the casual customer segment.
Consequence does not simply mean danger. Consequence can mean that your actions have an impact within the game mileu itself. I remember how in Warhammer Online, the top RvR players were rewarded with a statue which was placed in their main city. The statue is a consequence of how they played in the game. The physical environment of the game was changed as a result of the actions of those players. The statues were not dangerious, they just sat there.
I think everyone wants to have there be consequences in an MMO, without them any achievement is hollow. The issue seems to be that different people have different thresholds for the severity of consequence they are ready to assume. Some people like severe consequences because they find it exciting, others prefer less severe consequences because they don't want to have to rebuild what they have lost. There is room for games to incorporate both of these kind of players. Serious benefits for people willing to tolerate serious consequences, Less serious, but more reliable, benefits for those willing to tolerate less sersious consequences.
Does anyone else feal that lack of danger makes MMORPGs and sRPGs feel stale? Are their any games out there that I am missing that have successfully caused terror in players? I'd especially love to hear about MMORPGs that pull it off. To be clear I dont't mean dark theme or scary graphics, those may scare a 5 year old. When I talk about fear and terror I mean that a player will be scared or upset when they are defeated. I don't care how scary a boss looks when it jumps out at me, if i can just hop back up and fight him again when I die that is not scary in my book.
No.
Obviously, how these save systems/little penalty are popular, danger is really not required to have fun, for many.
But there is a good example of terror.
D3 hard core. You can lose hundred of hours of progress if you make a small mistake. Many play that game mode VERY conservatively.
Danger is not conducive of trying things out, and experimenting. If i know i will lose my character, or just my 2B gold sword if i die, i am less likely to try a new build.
I'm personally not swayed too much by a death penalty as I never like to die anyways. That said I've probably been the most invested in staying alive in EQ based upon a few things:
One, losing XP that took a while to build Two, in a group it could be a chore to get to an XP spot so killing back to that spot took time. Three, if you kept getting killed or were causing others to keep getting killed you could be asked to leave.
I can see why these things were taken out but I feel more can be done to make it interesting. Open dungeons is one and leaving corpses is another. Not that your corpes would despawn and you lose your stuff but that you would need to get back to it, fast travel or not. If you didn't want to and it was zapped back to you you could not use that gear for an hour. This wouldn't work for a lot of people but ideas are not just for the majority.
I can see why these things were taken out but I feel more can be done to make it interesting. Open dungeons is one and leaving corpses is another. Not that your corpes would despawn and you lose your stuff but that you would need to get back to it, fast travel or not. If you didn't want to and it was zapped back to you you could not use that gear for an hour. This wouldn't work for a lot of people but ideas are not just for the majority.
"Why?! What's the point of death penalties?!!"
It makes winning worth more than being expected.
There is no "winning" in PvE, only progression. And DP does not make it harder to beat a boss, it only makes it take longer.
In PvP, you don't need DP to make winner worth anything. There are a lot of established e-sport methods for that .. ranking, ELO score .....
Originally posted by Eir_S I don't think I've ever felt particularly in "Danger" in an MMO. The last game that made me feel a sense of actual fear was Amnesia: The Dark Descent. That is one awesome game, but I can't play through it again, it gave me gaming PTSD lol
I have never felt fear in a video game. I just don't see how people are fearful in a video game.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
So, you people want mobs to one shot you, then what's the point of that, I want smart AI like in RAGE, that feel's alive, if I could manage to avoid geting hit by moving around, using covers, that does not mean, it is an easy mode, in most games AI use aimbot system, which is not fun and you only need to find the right combination of protection and output damage, that is not challenge or danger.
I realy enjoy my skyrim, I hope that MMOs are like that.
Defince, does have everything you need, you have solo, with different challenges, and you have group content.
People afraid to have first person view in an MMOs, because they want to see what happens in 360% mode, that is part of easy mode as well.
Originally posted by Eir_S I don't think I've ever felt particularly in "Danger" in an MMO. The last game that made me feel a sense of actual fear was Amnesia: The Dark Descent. That is one awesome game, but I can't play through it again, it gave me gaming PTSD lol
I have never felt fear in a video game. I just don't see how people are fearful in a video game.
Some of the scripted scenes in the first FEAR game is pretty scary though .. not the kind that really scare me for long, but like the jump out and i go "holy shit" .. kind of sudden shock.
Originally posted by GGrimm I think everyone wants to have there be consequences in an MMO, without them any achievement is hollow.
While I agree on the second part, I am not so sure about the first part. I don't think everyone is playing for achievement. Some are playing for collection, and risk/consequence can sometimes be perceived as in the way of that playstyle.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
have never felt any kind of fright in a MMO, may have got suprised once or twice in singleplayer games though - no matter what death penalty there have been in a MMO, Ive never felt in danger, in any way, not even in EvE when got shot down in an expensive ship - not to say Ive not been abit meh over it, since it takes awhile to farm the isk for me....but scared no.
in EQ2 it always baffled me that people would react much on dieing, so you had a minute to wait before going again, who cares about a minute or 2 - if time were that important to a person, they shouldnt play a MMO since you d never have the patience for other peoples screw ups then.
either way in the end I never felt danger in a MMO, and wouldnt really care about soul runs, other than I like the idea of an extra task....right up untill all that happens is people log off untill they got it back.
Originally posted by GGrimm I think everyone wants to have there be consequences in an MMO, without them any achievement is hollow.
While I agree on the second part, I am not so sure about the first part. I don't think everyone is playing for achievement. Some are playing for collection, and risk/consequence can sometimes be perceived as in the way of that playstyle.
1) acheivement in a game is an illusion.
2) You don't need any death penalty for the epleen kind of achievemnt. Just look at world first hard mode raid kills. or look at Diabloprogress, or wow-hero, or gear score. People can "feel" the illusion of achievement in many ways.
Of course there has been a lack of "danger" in modern MMORPGs (and games in general). It's by design....as to appeal to a larger audience of casual gamers.
It comes down to the player's objective, in terms of what they are looking to get out of the gaming experience.
Traditional MMORPGs were known for more of a "hard knocks" style of game play, with a niche audience attracted to a game that provided that level of challenge & adreneline rush. I remember my heart thumping out of my chest, with sweaty arm pits during PvP & high level PvE encounters playing Ultima Online. Why? Because of what was on the line.....IE high consequence for failure.
This, obviously, turned off many gamers that tried their hand at MMOs, and relegated the genere to a very specific type of gamer. Modern MMORPGs, with huge capital investments by huge publishers, have purposly changed the MMO gaming experience to be less punative, in effort hold on to as many gamers as possible....and recoup their investment. Casual gamers don't have the time to farm or recoup from a devestating loss in battle, so instead of losing all your gear at death....you just have to take a short walk back to your body. They aren't looking for an adreneline rush....but a shiney piece of gear or a biscut for completing a task....as sense of progression.
Originally posted by rojo6934 After playing Dark Souls everything else is a walk to the park. I love GW2 and cant wait for all these new things, but if New Dangers dont mean that kind of danger then its not really a big deal.
Originally posted by GGrimm I think everyone wants to have there be consequences in an MMO, without them any achievement is hollow.
While I agree on the second part, I am not so sure about the first part. I don't think everyone is playing for achievement. Some are playing for collection, and risk/consequence can sometimes be perceived as in the way of that playstyle.
1) acheivement in a game is an illusion.
2) You don't need any death penalty for the epleen kind of achievemnt. Just look at world first hard mode raid kills. or look at Diabloprogress, or wow-hero, or gear score. People can "feel" the illusion of achievement in many ways.
1) Of course it's an illusion...so is the entire game, if you're going to take it to that phylisophical level. That said, people that typically get into MMOs are a willing acomplice of this illusion. These folks usually have an easier time suspending disbelief and accept the illusion whole sale. So if perception is reality....then for these folks, the illusion is real.
2) The degree of difficulty in heroics, raids, accumulating gear scores are more of logistical challenges...not so much difficulty of the encounter itself. Heroics are harder because the NPCs have more HP / MP, and deal more damage (with a few additional gimmicks). Getting a high gear score is hard because of the time invested & social network needed to have access to the gear that provides the high score. Not because of the need to be perfect in execution...else lose your arse.
Originally posted by GGrimm I think everyone wants to have there be consequences in an MMO, without them any achievement is hollow.
While I agree on the second part, I am not so sure about the first part. I don't think everyone is playing for achievement. Some are playing for collection, and risk/consequence can sometimes be perceived as in the way of that playstyle.
1) acheivement in a game is an illusion.2) You don't need any death penalty for the epleen kind of achievemnt. Just look at world first hard mode raid kills. or look at Diabloprogress, or wow-hero, or gear score. People can "feel" the illusion of achievement in many ways.
You mean *sniff* my character did NOT beat that *sniff* monster senseless? He really did *sniff sniff* not ding level 4? That *sniff* last achievement award turned to *sniff* dust in his hands?
Number 2 I totally agree with
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Original Resident Evil... walking down the 2nd hallway where the dead dogs bust through the windows.... no game has ever made me pause and take a break from playing since then.
Originally posted by GGrimm I think everyone wants to have there be consequences in an MMO, without them any achievement is hollow.
While I agree on the second part, I am not so sure about the first part. I don't think everyone is playing for achievement. Some are playing for collection, and risk/consequence can sometimes be perceived as in the way of that playstyle.
Very true...
Some people play MMOs for a sense of escapisim, fully committing to the "illusion", and immersing themselves in the virtual world. At this point, the experiences in the game feel more "real"....hence the adreneline rushes one gets in a high consequence battle in the game that they would normally get in real life running away from an attacker.
For others, its all about pulling the leaver on the slot machine for an expected stimulus.
The reason we've seen more games catering to the latter is because there is a larger audience that is looking for that kind of experience vs. gamers wanting a fantasy environment with real life experiences.
I never played EQ1, but i heard horror stories from players that certainly sounded like they felt fear. Perhaps due to xp loss penalties and impossible corpse runs.
Basically if you died in EQ you left a corpse behind with all your gear and items on it and you were kicked to your bind spot which could be hours away from where you died. You were naked, literally. You also lost a substantial amount of XP, often losing your current level.
You weren't an invulnerable ghost like in WoW, you were just a regular player but now naked and all your belongins were somewhere far away out of reach.
There was also a danger of being new to a zone and not exactly knowing where you died anymore. Mobs did not unleash like in new games, they would follow you for miles, you would often have no clue where you died.
What happened to a group who died or a single player who died is that they often needed help, imagine dying next to lvl 40 mobs, now you are basically screwed, how are you going to get your corpse back naked. You need assistance and you need to reach out to people in the zone and make contact with people and notify everyone you need help. You needed necromancers to run to you to that zone to summon your corpse away, or other groups to clear a path for you or IVU buffs to keep you invisible (but this was risky since invisibility is not stable in EQ), basically you needed help.
Result = community organisation, discussions, friends
2) You don't need any death penalty for the epleen kind of achievemnt. Just look at world first hard mode raid kills. or look at Diabloprogress, or wow-hero, or gear score. People can "feel" the illusion of achievement in many ways.
1) Of course it's an illusion...so is the entire game, if you're going to take it to that phylisophical level. That said, people that typically get into MMOs are a willing acomplice of this illusion. These folks usually have an easier time suspending disbelief and accept the illusion whole sale. So if perception is reality....then for these folks, the illusion is real.
But it means that you don't need real challenges of harsh consequences to maintain the illusion. There are many psychological tricks to do that. In fact, the proof is in what is happening ... most games don't have harsh consequences .. and people still hook onto progression.
2) The degree of difficulty in heroics, raids, accumulating gear scores are more of logistical challenges...not so much difficulty of the encounter itself. Heroics are harder because the NPCs have more HP / MP, and deal more damage (with a few additional gimmicks). Getting a high gear score is hard because of the time invested & social network needed to have access to the gear that provides the high score. Not because of the need to be perfect in execution...else lose your arse.
Not in defeating bosses. Look at world first. Not many guilds have players good enough to do hard mode raids. That is not logistical. But the point is this ... the illusion is easily maintained. Gearscore is very popualr and effective .. and you don't need any real consequences in gameplay to use that as a way to make the achievement illusion.
Look at the popularity of wow-progress, diabloprogress .. and website like that.
Comments
I have always thought an MMORPG where a player who had surmounted "obstacle here" could control a BOSS mob - with a arsenal of powerful abilities. As a player, how fun would it be to rampage across the countryside destroying capital cities as a giant monster? You would have a meter (as the boss) that would tell you which player was causing the most damage at that moment.
Players would band together to defeat the BOSS. I think the "fear" would be in knowing that the monster was beiing controlled by a real player and at any moment it would zero in on you and all the running in the world wouldn't cause it to lose aggro. Seems like it would be fun for all.
If I have to explain it, you wouldn't understand.
Consequence = danger, everyone knows it, no one wants it given the choice.
Example: eq progression servers with 99% old players who played back when you had to run back and get corpse within 6? hours or your gear were lost. There was a vote to use that old system or the new system where you could only gain xp by running back, but never loose gear - The vote went against the old death penalty system. It is funny how that works, everyone knew the old system would give the real feeling they wanted from re-playing eq, but they took the easy way out, and thus never got what they came back for.
For a game company it is just a question of numbers, consequence = x number of hardcore players staying in the game, no consequence = y number of players staying in the game; y > x, game = business = y is the choice.
Hardcore in ARPGs or some mmorpgs pvp servers would be the closest you come to consequence at the moment, but it sure would be nice to see some mmorpgs have some kind of consequence design build in, maybe optional to reach both the hardcore and the casual customer segment.
"I am my connectome" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HA7GwKXfJB0
Small point of order: there exists a category of griefers who don't care at all what happens to their character so long as they get to harvest tears from other players. They feel empowered, not endangered by a game with consequences.
Tension is the correct term here, not fear. A good game will continually build suspense, in the case of many MMOs this is something as simple as watching your HP fall ever closer to zero as a fight continues until the moment of release where you or your enemy drops dead. Hauling cargo in EVE it stems from never knowing who is watching, or what is waiting for you on the other side of that gate.
Killing ten rats in a basement is an exercise in tedium, until you give those rats the ability to inflict a crippling (and I'm not talking "you got rat aids, -1 constitution") disease. Suddenly each hit acquires new meaning as you wait for that inevitable moment when you contract whatever unpleasantness they're carrying. In an effort to appeal to a wider, younger audience games ignore these basic rules in favour of streamlined content with little to no consequence for failure. Most people don't like losing, believe it or not. We're expected to suffer mediocre gameplay for their sake.
As for an example of it done right, counting shadows in FFXI gave me most of my "oh shit" moments in gaming. Mis-clicks wiping out timers,AoEs or double/triple attacks tearing down your shadows in seconds, or a timer coming up as you're on your last legs. It remains one of the most engaging and rewarding tanking mechanics I have seen in nearly a decade.
Consequence does not simply mean danger. Consequence can mean that your actions have an impact within the game mileu itself. I remember how in Warhammer Online, the top RvR players were rewarded with a statue which was placed in their main city. The statue is a consequence of how they played in the game. The physical environment of the game was changed as a result of the actions of those players. The statues were not dangerious, they just sat there.
No.
Obviously, how these save systems/little penalty are popular, danger is really not required to have fun, for many.
But there is a good example of terror.
D3 hard core. You can lose hundred of hours of progress if you make a small mistake. Many play that game mode VERY conservatively.
Danger is not conducive of trying things out, and experimenting. If i know i will lose my character, or just my 2B gold sword if i die, i am less likely to try a new build.
One, losing XP that took a while to build
Two, in a group it could be a chore to get to an XP spot so killing back to that spot took time.
Three, if you kept getting killed or were causing others to keep getting killed you could be asked to leave.
I can see why these things were taken out but I feel more can be done to make it interesting. Open dungeons is one and leaving corpses is another. Not that your corpes would despawn and you lose your stuff but that you would need to get back to it, fast travel or not. If you didn't want to and it was zapped back to you you could not use that gear for an hour. This wouldn't work for a lot of people but ideas are not just for the majority.
"Why?! What's the point of death penalties?!!"
It makes winning worth more than being expected.
There is no "winning" in PvE, only progression. And DP does not make it harder to beat a boss, it only makes it take longer.
In PvP, you don't need DP to make winner worth anything. There are a lot of established e-sport methods for that .. ranking, ELO score .....
I have never felt fear in a video game. I just don't see how people are fearful in a video game.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
So, you people want mobs to one shot you, then what's the point of that, I want smart AI like in RAGE, that feel's alive, if I could manage to avoid geting hit by moving around, using covers, that does not mean, it is an easy mode, in most games AI use aimbot system, which is not fun and you only need to find the right combination of protection and output damage, that is not challenge or danger.
I realy enjoy my skyrim, I hope that MMOs are like that.
Defince, does have everything you need, you have solo, with different challenges, and you have group content.
People afraid to have first person view in an MMOs, because they want to see what happens in 360% mode, that is part of easy mode as well.
Some of the scripted scenes in the first FEAR game is pretty scary though .. not the kind that really scare me for long, but like the jump out and i go "holy shit" .. kind of sudden shock.
While I agree on the second part, I am not so sure about the first part. I don't think everyone is playing for achievement. Some are playing for collection, and risk/consequence can sometimes be perceived as in the way of that playstyle.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
have never felt any kind of fright in a MMO, may have got suprised once or twice in singleplayer games though - no matter what death penalty there have been in a MMO, Ive never felt in danger, in any way, not even in EvE when got shot down in an expensive ship - not to say Ive not been abit meh over it, since it takes awhile to farm the isk for me....but scared no.
in EQ2 it always baffled me that people would react much on dieing, so you had a minute to wait before going again, who cares about a minute or 2 - if time were that important to a person, they shouldnt play a MMO since you d never have the patience for other peoples screw ups then.
either way in the end I never felt danger in a MMO, and wouldnt really care about soul runs, other than I like the idea of an extra task....right up untill all that happens is people log off untill they got it back.
1) acheivement in a game is an illusion.
2) You don't need any death penalty for the epleen kind of achievemnt. Just look at world first hard mode raid kills. or look at Diabloprogress, or wow-hero, or gear score. People can "feel" the illusion of achievement in many ways.
Of course there has been a lack of "danger" in modern MMORPGs (and games in general). It's by design....as to appeal to a larger audience of casual gamers.
It comes down to the player's objective, in terms of what they are looking to get out of the gaming experience.
Traditional MMORPGs were known for more of a "hard knocks" style of game play, with a niche audience attracted to a game that provided that level of challenge & adreneline rush. I remember my heart thumping out of my chest, with sweaty arm pits during PvP & high level PvE encounters playing Ultima Online. Why? Because of what was on the line.....IE high consequence for failure.
This, obviously, turned off many gamers that tried their hand at MMOs, and relegated the genere to a very specific type of gamer. Modern MMORPGs, with huge capital investments by huge publishers, have purposly changed the MMO gaming experience to be less punative, in effort hold on to as many gamers as possible....and recoup their investment. Casual gamers don't have the time to farm or recoup from a devestating loss in battle, so instead of losing all your gear at death....you just have to take a short walk back to your body. They aren't looking for an adreneline rush....but a shiney piece of gear or a biscut for completing a task....as sense of progression.
I very much agree with your sentiment.
1) Of course it's an illusion...so is the entire game, if you're going to take it to that phylisophical level. That said, people that typically get into MMOs are a willing acomplice of this illusion. These folks usually have an easier time suspending disbelief and accept the illusion whole sale. So if perception is reality....then for these folks, the illusion is real.
2) The degree of difficulty in heroics, raids, accumulating gear scores are more of logistical challenges...not so much difficulty of the encounter itself. Heroics are harder because the NPCs have more HP / MP, and deal more damage (with a few additional gimmicks). Getting a high gear score is hard because of the time invested & social network needed to have access to the gear that provides the high score. Not because of the need to be perfect in execution...else lose your arse.
Different degrees of dificulty...
Number 2 I totally agree with
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Original Resident Evil... walking down the 2nd hallway where the dead dogs bust through the windows.... no game has ever made me pause and take a break from playing since then.
Very true...
Some people play MMOs for a sense of escapisim, fully committing to the "illusion", and immersing themselves in the virtual world. At this point, the experiences in the game feel more "real"....hence the adreneline rushes one gets in a high consequence battle in the game that they would normally get in real life running away from an attacker.
For others, its all about pulling the leaver on the slot machine for an expected stimulus.
The reason we've seen more games catering to the latter is because there is a larger audience that is looking for that kind of experience vs. gamers wanting a fantasy environment with real life experiences.
Basically if you died in EQ you left a corpse behind with all your gear and items on it and you were kicked to your bind spot which could be hours away from where you died. You were naked, literally. You also lost a substantial amount of XP, often losing your current level.
You weren't an invulnerable ghost like in WoW, you were just a regular player but now naked and all your belongins were somewhere far away out of reach.
There was also a danger of being new to a zone and not exactly knowing where you died anymore. Mobs did not unleash like in new games, they would follow you for miles, you would often have no clue where you died.
What happened to a group who died or a single player who died is that they often needed help, imagine dying next to lvl 40 mobs, now you are basically screwed, how are you going to get your corpse back naked. You need assistance and you need to reach out to people in the zone and make contact with people and notify everyone you need help. You needed necromancers to run to you to that zone to summon your corpse away, or other groups to clear a path for you or IVU buffs to keep you invisible (but this was risky since invisibility is not stable in EQ), basically you needed help.
Result = community organisation, discussions, friends