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Would Failure of the kickstarter , be more of blessing?
Sxadana
Member UncommonPosts: 39
I have been following cu for a few months, and ever since the kickstarter came out i have been debatting with myself if i shoud donate or not. Reading as much info as possible. Looking up old doac friends and asking they're thoughts about doac2, only to find that they havent even heard that it existed.
So as more days pass i keep feeling that this game wasnt ready to be put on kickstarter. Most of the kickstarters i see partialy have a product already. or something to show for, not just hey look i want to make this "xxx awesome item" i dont have much more then how i want it to look. And this is where i feel that CU is lacking. Its nice that they are already have the general idea. But yea...
Now it makes me wonder if this kickstarter ended up failling, in the end it would only be for the good of the game. That they wouldent just give up and go home. But actualy spend a few months working on the product. Then come back to kickstarted with a rough diamand to show for. I have a feeling that if this was the case. CU would get way more attention from gaming websites because they actualy got something to show for. Stretch goals would be achieved , with a funding ending possible way higher then the inital goal.
Any thoughts ?
Comments
To be honest I think you were right.
MJ has stated though, they if KS failed and was close to the 2 Mill (lets say 1.8 -1.9), he would try to pledge it again at 1.5 or so.
But I do agree to some degree.
All those tech videos and all that SHOULD have been on the kickstarter page or their website from the very beginning.
Information is very limited, and in the beginning I feared pledging this game until I read that if a project has been succesfully pledged, they are commited to release the product to the customer, or refund the money.
After that, I felt a little more safe about my investment.
But I'm a sucker for PvP MMORPG's, so tired of PvE games, so I have to give this a shot.
Absolutely.
I think going into a KS campaign without a prototype is rather pathetic.
Backed some games on KS but only the ones which had something convincing to show off.
Secrets of Dragon?s Spine Trailer.. !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwT9cFVQCMw
Best MMOs ever played: Ultima, EvE, SW Galaxies, Age of Conan, The Secret World
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2X_SbZCHpc&t=21s
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The Return of ELITE !
The failure of the kickstarter would only be a blessing if City State Entertainment had underbid themselves on the amount of money that they needed to raise.
If I recall correctly MJ said that the plan is 2 million from KS, 2 million of his own money and another million from other investor(s). So even if they meet the goal instead of exceeding it by a ridiculous amount(like we all hope) there should be enough money lined up for a decent product at launch.
By the end of the 30 days there should be enough information out for anybody to make a reasonably informed decision about whether he would enjoy the game enough to donate a few dollars to see it made. People act like this is a decision to buy a car or a house. You are just being given a chance to donate $1 or more to see a video game made with various rewards being given based on the size of your donation. If you can't afford it or don't like what you've seen based on the info provided, don't donate. Otherwise do. It's that simple.
No way no how would failure to fund be a blessing. If it failed and there was a second Kickstarter a few months later, you still wouldn't get a complete list of classes and all their skills and whatever else details you think are missing nor would there be videos of a fully functioning alpha version of the game. If it doesn't fund the first time or get very close, then Mark will reasonably assume the concept is just too niche and doesn't have the player base needed to be viable. Then RvR fans would have to move on to hoping TESO doesn't ruin its AvA with too much PvE gear grind.
DAOC Live (inactive): R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R6 Healer
No because if kickstarter faield we would not get the game and that would be a very very bad thing..
I cant see it failing anyway.
I do agree.
Getting money would be easier if they could show some alpha footage.
On the other hand, with no publisher, they need money to be able to create the game.
How many times are people going to keep misrepresenting this game? You know why your friends have not heard about DAoC2? Because there is no DAoC2.
CU is NOT DAoC2.....anyone expecting DAoC2 will be sorely disappointed.
If a game fails to fund once, you think as many people would buy-in to the hype if they tried again? Im not sure as many would bother a second time around.
But your main point is quite valid and it's one i agree with, CU went to KS way too early, even now no-one really knows enough about this game to have any clue what it'll be like and thats not something every potential backer can get past. They have definitely alienated some potential backers, how many and how much this hurts the KS is probably impossible to gauge.
Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy
I agree, I have backed several KS's recently and might possibly have considered backing CU if there was something tangible to go on, but there is nothing but speculation and outlines.
Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy
@MikeJezZ
I think we are in the same boat my friend i'll probably give in to get another taste at a pvp mmo
Zinzan
Hehe sorry about the daoc2 reference, with that sentance i was trying to say i contacted all the people i know that are really into pvp mmo's and how they're point of view was on the CU
meddyck
Mhm yea, but i feel that it wil only go up for xx% of people. That with more to show we would reach more people.
On another note talk about coincidence as i'm writing this. And the tv is on in the background. the national TV news is talking about a game on kickstarter cald divinity. How it reached funding and stil with 10 days to go. And showing people ingame footage. and actualy motivating people to check it out if they like it, lol nice
Well I thought Jacobs has 2 million at hand? he didn't want to take some risk and invest in a prototype himself like Chris Roberts did with SC, Braben did with Elite, Garriot did with Shroud?
draw your own conclusion like I did
Secrets of Dragon?s Spine Trailer.. !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwT9cFVQCMw
Best MMOs ever played: Ultima, EvE, SW Galaxies, Age of Conan, The Secret World
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2X_SbZCHpc&t=21s
.
.
The Return of ELITE !
Yup.
The two biggest misconceptions/confusions I have seen repeatedly on this board are:
1. CU is DAoC 2 and 2. How kickstarter works.
The first I would say blame can be split between the CSE's lack of a centralized, structured source of information, and people seeing RvR in the description and Camelot in the title and not actually reading the information that is available. The second, I don't know. I see so many people saying "I'm waiting until it gets close to or past 2M because I don't want to give money and have it fail". You are not billed by KS until the campaign ends, and you are only billed if funding is successful. You can also change your funding amount and rewards tiers until it ends so holding out to see if they change tiers is only letting more sell out.
Back to the topic of the thread; Who knows? Would having more details, and fancier demo's help convince more people? yes Would the previous failure be a permanent black eye that turns some people away, and fuel even more flame posts? yes THe net result, I could see it going either way.
Doing another KS campaign means more time spent on rewards tiers, and updates etc and less time actually working on the game. I believe in the concept of the game, I would prefer it fund now so they can focus on making a game, not a KS campaign.
This I don't agree with. They have money to start the game. If he is going to put in 2 million after KS is funded he could have done it before he even went to KS and had something to show us.
I don't believe KS should be used to see if there is interest. I want the developer to at least have as much confidence in the game as the people they are asking to fund it. I want them to believe in their product. I just don't see that here.
If you look at other KS projects these are people that have a passion for what they are doing. They are trying to make their dreams become a reality by all and any means necessary. CU comes across as a side project to me. This whole thing comes across as "ehhh..if it gets funded great..if not oh well". We will just move on to something else. If MJ and his team had half the passion for this game as the posters on this forurm do KS would probably be fully funded by now.
Now before all of the fans of this game get all defensive I'm not bashing the game. I believe there is a place in the genre for this type of game. I believe if it gets made it will do well. I just don't see the passion from this KS project that I have seen with others.
I see the 250 USD as a really great investment.
250 USD = same as a yearly fee on a typical MMORPG.
"reward" for investment? Renew your sub for 1 USD /year.
That is a very awesome reward. Imagine playing this for the next 5-8 years+. Really good investment.
If it's junk, you're account is probably worth alot since you get 3 years sub free of charge, and the yearly sub for 1 USD.
Bought Darkfall: Unholy Wars because I got so hyped over this game and needs another PvP fix meanwhile :P
I totally agree with you, hands down.
But I would love to see this work, and have 1 USD sub fee /year :P
I think it's funny, all these high-rollers that haven't even kicked in $25 at this stage, saying that Mark should have already used that $2,000,000 to get the game started.
First, working on the kickstarter isn't free. He is paying salaries and other overhead. He estimated about $150,000 to do the kickstarter. I'm wagering none/little of that is his salary.
I think 150k is a pretty decent investment in seeing if the public even wants this thing. If you chuckleheads can't even get together for $25 each, why would he put $2,000,000 in the pot?
Kickstarter does NOT need a product to demonstrate. Yes, some kickstarters have a prototype, or have shot some footage, etc....
Let me tell you that it is exponentially cheaper to get a 3d printed prototype of whatever little doodad you are making, or to take a camera you likely already own and get the footage "for free" and recoup the costs later - paying salary for 13 people is a whole different ballgame.
I know you've all run businesses before and know more than me, MJ, anyone else - but come the hell on. Grow up.
If you don't like what you've heard and seen so far, well, I don't know what to tell you. Keep checking back for the updates, and if you like it by the time things are over - great. If not...great.
This isn't about the specific classes, races, or anything - it's about the idea of a niche, PVP-only MMO based on mythology. Backed by a set of foundational principles that I think are pretty straightforward.
If there isn't enough interest in that....why should he piss away his money?
Once THE PUBLIC says this is the game they want, he's said he is more than happy to put in his (and some of someone else's) money to make it happen. Be adults about it.
This isn't a signature, you just think it is.
Most of the big Kickstarter projects had very little information and nothing working. Double Fine didn't even have a game idea. Wasteland 2, Project Enternity, Torment, they had nothing but a rough plan.
That doesn't work for everybody, but it does work, and there's no reason to criticise a company about taking a direction as long as it works. Nothing convinces all backers. Projects can show quite a bit and still get panned. In a way it's safer not to show much, because then people won't be put off by rough demos or other pre-release teething problems.
Failure of the kickstarter would be anything but good. Plenty of games have kickstarter without any working mechanics, systems, or code in place. The whole point of kickstarter is to get money to fulfill the needs to complete a project that you would otherwise have been unable to do. Should these people really invest company time and money into getting to an alpha stage in development (which is NOT an initial phase of software) only to find out not enough people would fund a kickstarter? Does anyone realize that even if they did show us a "preview" as it were of the game, it would not have the same mechanics, systems, or code that the real game would have? It would be smoke and mirrors at this point in development. Frankly, I find it refreshing that CSE are telling us exactly what we are seeing. Transparency, in this case, is very good.
Yes, there have been plenty of ""kickfinishers", games that are nearly complete but require additional funding for extra polish, sound, score, etc. That's great, and it's nice to get your product quickly, but it is not a requisite. I have to question how familiar people are with kickstarter, however, to think it strange that a game would still be in infancy during the funding phase. Please take a look at the doublefine adventure, shadowrun returns, wasteland 2, project eternity, and torment kickstarters, some of the most successfully backed projects to date. Take a look at the veronica mars movie. There wasn't even a script for it when they launched a kickstarter. This is NOT strange, it's just kickstarter.
End communication.
also i see no point really in showing a 1% completed demo engine like pathfinder did(which actually made me not want to back the project at all)... some more info on the game in general would be nice but i don't expect or need a whole tech demo for kickstarter
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
I understand what you are saying but asking people to fund a game when you have the money to get the ball rolling already just seems wrong to me. If you do not have enough confidence in your game to invest your money why should I?
Look I'm not bashing the guy or the game. I am just giving another point of view. When I look at other games on KS and see this...
Above and Beyond Technologies is an independently owned development studio. It consists of a small team which has spent every last moment of free time at their disposal to fund and develop this title over the past four years. Each of our team members either works a day job, or makes ends meet by working as an independent contractor. We’ve invested years worth of our time because we believe strongly in this project and that it will be a success.
...I have a hard time seeing where MJ is coming from. I don't see that kind of passion. I don't see that kind of commitment. To me that is what KS should be about. Helping people to make their dreams become a reality. Not fail safe funding. The Ill only make this game if you fund it attitude isn't great. That is how it comes across to a lot of people.
When you are asking for 2 million dollars I expect a little bit more from you. I expect passion, commitment, and a total belief in what you are doing. I expect the "never say die" attitude that you see a lot of on KS. This project just does not come across like that. It's almost like he is holding CU hostage and if you don't pay you won't be getting it. To me it just seems the total opposite of what KS should be about.
You can disagree or flame me its all cool. I'm just giving you a different perspective. It's not that I dont believe in the game..I do. I just don't feel the confidence that I need to in this developer to back this project.
^^^common sense^^^
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My only question for you is do you really understand what kickstarter is for? It is a way for an individual or a small start up company to create something with people backing it instead of major corporations.
Mark started CSE 2 to 3 years ago and their small team just released their first mobile game last year. Him and Andrew probably invested their own money to start CSE and hire a small team.
That being said Mark has stated he is also using Kickstarter as interest gauge whether or not the niche will have enough folks 20,000 to 40,000, to warrant even making the game.
Why spend the money to make a motion picture quality video to sazzle and dazzle folks if there is not enough interest in the game? Not very good business sense in my opinion.
He has also stated if the Kickstarter fails then CU won't be made. While to some that may sound like hype it is just good business sense.
A small company cannot complete with the big publishers money wise so they go directly to the consumers through kickstarter.
Many things down through the years have raised money based on ideas alone, Walt Disney comes to mind, Walt had a vision for Disneyland and all he could show investors were concepts and dreams. How did that work at for him?:)
Lastly Kickstarter projects takes something some folks refuse to give, a little big word called faith. Faith in the dream, and faith in the author of the dream.
I hope you can find the faith to join us on this journey.:)
Wait there.. SC was using an established engine and we have not seen any in game footage yet just some videos possibly showing scripted footage from within cryengine. Yes they did ahve a lot of stuff done in the engine already but they didnt have to design an engine as welll just make some models and put them in game (yes there was mroe to it than that).
We didnt see any in game footage with Elite until a week after kickstarter started.. i believe all we got to start with was some footage of the origional Elite. When we did get to see the first in game footage it was nothing more and a basic tech demo
Shroud videos where just some basic stuff thrown togeather in unity that would probally take me a few days to do so again we never really seen anything there.
With UC they are making an engine from scratch and they have already shown us some early demo footage from the engine..
At the end of the day if you feel like you cant back the game then you dont have to