First, let me say that I have zero interest in Greedmonger and have very serious doubts about Mr. Appleton's ability to make it happen--same way I feel about the majority of KS MMO projects. Having said that...
I had a front-row seat for some of the posts in the now-defunct Greedmonger forum here when a few weeks back I went there out of curiosity.
I saw some outrageous personal attacks against Appleton that seemed to linger in the forum for days without mod edits. This was in sharp contrast to the ever-vigilant moderation that I see in all forums when 2 or more regular posters get into a pissing match... not to mention the fact that personal attacks directed at developers and their integrity is commonplace in all forums here.
As far as I can tell personal attacks directed at developers that are not forum participants are OK. Those agains developers who participate in the forums a little less so. The only ones that seem to be an absolute no-no are the ones directed at other non-developer forum posters... curious.
Another odd thing about this site is the timing of creating a forum to discuss something that resembles an MMO (there are a lot of forums for RPGs with online compnents that are hard to describe as MMOs...but that's a different story for anoher day.) On the one hand we have MMOs that are developed for 5 or 6 years before the developers decide it's time to reveal it to the public--this is the typical case with mainstream AAA MMOs. But it seems like a forum can be created to discuss something that is just someone's dream and nothing else.
There are a few exceptions: Titan and EQ Next come to mind. But the track record of those two development teams are solid. There's no reason to doubt that they will get developed.
So we have some forums here with people discussing what exists and is nearly finished and other forums where people discuss what might exist in a few years if all the stars align properly.
A lot of the non-personal criticism I saw in the Greedmonger forum when I visited boiled down to" "You got nothing... show us." Well, duh. That is the nature of things that get announced when they go to KS with nothing more than some concept art, some ideas and, if we're lucky a very rough video.
Appleton's mistakes? He participated in the forum here. He fought back. He doesn't do internet very well. Otherwise, his KS pipedream is no more nor less solid than the vast majority of other projects with their own little forums here.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
95% of what you see in beta won't change by launch.
Hope is not a stategy. ______________________________ "This kind of topic is like one of those little cartoon boxes held up by a stick on a string, with a piece of meat under it. In other words, bait."
I have no clue what Greed Monger is or was or will be, but I can easily tell someone needs to hire a PR person like Yesterday! And Jason, as a devoted MMA fan of both UFC and the old Strikeforce I have only heard your name a few times, and it was not in a good way. May want to stop saying that and just get your PR person now. You may have been a great salesman back in the day, but your an owner now, act like it please.
What is funny is that this guy has threatened MULTIPLE people with lawsuits (go check out his kickstarters..) but as far as I can tell he is all talk. If he has any credibility he would have actually had to follow through on his threats. Thus, any damage to his credibility is self-inflicted....
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
What is funny is that this guy has threatened MULTIPLE people with lawsuits (go check out his kickstarters..) but as far as I can tell he is all talk. If he has any credibility he would have actually had to follow through on his threats. Thus, any damage to his credibility is self-inflicted....
I wonder where he would get the money to hire a lawyer for a law suit? Would he use the Kickstarter money?
Personally, I'd be more inclined to give money to Melisa Joan Hart's Kickstarter to make a crappy movie for her.
Greedmonger looks like its either going to be vaporware or just plain hot garbage. As for its creator, he is giving off a very strong internet tough guy/braggart vibe. Is saying he is invloved in MMA supposed to make us go "Oh, shit son! This guy sounds tough as f**k!"? What was his "involvement" in MMA? Did he manage the website for them? Hand out flyers? He should stop making thinly veiled threats to sue or get people fired as it just makes him look like a horrible person.
BTW, all of the above was just my opinion and thoughts. No need to call your lawyers, Mr.Appleton.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
Originally posted by FromHell The whole Greed Monger project reminds me a lot of the Camelot Unchained project. Projects with lots of talk and almost nothing to show. Not my cup of tea, tbh
First off I am a backer of this ...game. I regret this now. This game will be vaporware for sure. Mr. Appleton is in over his head so much he will be crushed from the pressure. FFS he was nowhere near finished with this ...game and he had the nerve/gall/stupidity to start on another one (not funded but good try Appleton): http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/appleton/billy-bolts-my-fathers-keeper
If I had known (my fault for not reading up I guess) that his previous gigs were MMA musclehead/whatever-the-hell-he-did-with-that-nonsense and a "male enhancement" snake oil salesman I would have stayed far away. So don't be surprised by his unprofessional attitude Mr. Advocate. And don't be surprised by any unprofessional comments he makes regarding this article either.
Oh my. You've got one kickstarter backed and are supposedly working on it but haven't yet delivered what you promised... so hurry out and start another one hoping people will pay you to spend your time on some other project, too?
I'm sorry to say a blatant straight truth, but mr appleton is right. He did right to threaten a troll and if more people threaten (and execute their threats) trolls, we will have less trolls and a more positive community. No sense of responsibility is a very bad situation, and it needs to change. You throw around insults and unchecked information and ruin someone else's reputation online? Pay for it! That's good practice. Punishing trolls IS good practice.
Guys, we're not seeing a disabled person being threatened. Not a black person being threatened. Not a minority. We are seing an evil person being stopped from commiting more evil. Do you hate those who threat murderers, rapists, drug dealers? No, we love them, we pay them money (taxes) and we hope they threat them even more so they stop doing their evil ways!
Is it a problem that this game isn't liste on some website that is a pit of snakes really (I mean, open the topic that announces start of KS campaign for CU, first post in reply to "back this project now" - "NO", or open any thread about Mortal Online, etc).... Ehh, not so much. Again, if I'd be banned from a community of murderers, rapists and thieves, would I be missing that? No thank you. I never wanted to have anything to do with those people anyway. Mr appleton and his game was banned from MMORPG? The way community here is, that's good PR for mr appleton.
Bottom line, if his game kicks ass and works out, he won't care wether or not mmorpg hosts his game in its insanely big list that includes games that arent mmorpgs at all (like LoL?). If his game sucks balls, again, it wouldn't matter wether or not his game is listed on mmorpg. Probably would even be good since less people would badmouth his failure. Win-win.
PS: Trolls think they control the internet and have a right to troll. This has to stop. You have a right to troll - anyone has a right to punch you in that troll face of yours and break a few bones of yours. Then troll to your heart's content. Way to go, mr appleton.
I really don't care about Greed Monger and had never even heard of it before this whole soap opera started. I will say though that his posts and the responses to them were amazing entertainment. I have never seen someone in his postion dig so deep of a hole for himself and then when told he wasn't making the situation any better he just kept going. It was a train wreck of pure enjoyment for me.
I really never thought anyone could alienate their (future) player base any more than SOE had. I was wrong. This guy doesn't even have a game to screw up yet and people hate him. I hope this thing makes it to launch. The entertainment value on these forums alone would be incredible.
This guy is the poster child of what not to do if your developing a game.
How much does it matter? Wait of for the game to be finished then decide if Mr Appleton and his company are worth your money. So the guy is not that clever when it comes to handling internet critics, lets wait till the game is out and see if it is any good.
The internet is not bad and most of the people are not that either. So many other developers got respect on the internet, for one reason: they are nice and mature. After reading the threat-letter, I can to 100% understand WHY everyone are so mad. That is something that just should not happend at all! It's like the bully in school, who wants a fight as soon someone go against him...
I'm sorry to say a blatant straight truth, but mr appleton is right. He did right to threaten a troll and if more people threaten (and execute their threats) trolls, we will have less trolls and a more positive community. No sense of responsibility is a very bad situation, and it needs to change. You throw around insults and unchecked information and ruin someone else's reputation online? Pay for it! That's good practice. Punishing trolls IS good practice.
Guys, we're not seeing a disabled person being threatened. Not a black person being threatened. Not a minority. We are seing an evil person being stopped from commiting more evil. Do you hate those who threat murderers, rapists, drug dealers? No, we love them, we pay them money (taxes) and we hope they threat them even more so they stop doing their evil ways!
Is it a problem that this game isn't liste on some website that is a pit of snakes really (I mean, open the topic that announces start of KS campaign for CU, first post in reply to "back this project now" - "NO", or open any thread about Mortal Online, etc).... Ehh, not so much. Again, if I'd be banned from a community of murderers, rapists and thieves, would I be missing that? No thank you. I never wanted to have anything to do with those people anyway. Mr appleton and his game was banned from MMORPG? The way community here is, that's good PR for mr appleton.
Bottom line, if his game kicks ass and works out, he won't care wether or not mmorpg hosts his game in its insanely big list that includes games that arent mmorpgs at all (like LoL?). If his game sucks balls, again, it wouldn't matter wether or not his game is listed on mmorpg. Probably would even be good since less people would badmouth his failure. Win-win.
PS: Trolls think they control the internet and have a right to troll. This has to stop. You have a right to troll - anyone has a right to punch you in that troll face of yours and break a few bones of yours. Then troll to your heart's content. Way to go, mr appleton.
Wait. You're equating trolls with rapists, murderers and drug dealers??? And that trolling is "evil"? Good lord.
Perspective. You have none.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
Originally posted by FromHell The whole Greed Monger project reminds me a lot of the Camelot Unchained project. Projects with lots of talk and almost nothing to show. Not my cup of tea, tbh
I'm sorry to say a blatant straight truth, but mr appleton is right. He did right to threaten a troll and if more people threaten (and execute their threats) trolls, we will have less trolls and a more positive community. No sense of responsibility is a very bad situation, and it needs to change. You throw around insults and unchecked information and ruin someone else's reputation online? Pay for it! That's good practice. Punishing trolls IS good practice.
Guys, we're not seeing a disabled person being threatened. Not a black person being threatened. Not a minority. We are seing an evil person being stopped from commiting more evil. Do you hate those who threat murderers, rapists, drug dealers? No, we love them, we pay them money (taxes) and we hope they threat them even more so they stop doing their evil ways!
Is it a problem that this game isn't liste on some website that is a pit of snakes really (I mean, open the topic that announces start of KS campaign for CU, first post in reply to "back this project now" - "NO", or open any thread about Mortal Online, etc).... Ehh, not so much. Again, if I'd be banned from a community of murderers, rapists and thieves, would I be missing that? No thank you. I never wanted to have anything to do with those people anyway. Mr appleton and his game was banned from MMORPG? The way community here is, that's good PR for mr appleton.
Bottom line, if his game kicks ass and works out, he won't care wether or not mmorpg hosts his game in its insanely big list that includes games that arent mmorpgs at all (like LoL?). If his game sucks balls, again, it wouldn't matter wether or not his game is listed on mmorpg. Probably would even be good since less people would badmouth his failure. Win-win.
PS: Trolls think they control the internet and have a right to troll. This has to stop. You have a right to troll - anyone has a right to punch you in that troll face of yours and break a few bones of yours. Then troll to your heart's content. Way to go, mr appleton.
Couple of things here. 1. The internet is the last true bastion of freedom for whtat it's worth good or bad...so yeah, Trolls do have the right to Troll. 2. What Mr. Appleton did was called being unprofessional. He wasn't just baning troll's (which again he shouldn't) he was banning anyone who had the guts to say, hey your game has a few issues that need to be addressed. That my friend comes off like a spoiled child and I know what that sounds like, I have one. Bill and the gang here at MMORPG dropped him because he threatened to sue them if he didn't remove any negative comments about his game. Any negative comment. That means someone could have said the game's color pallette was too bland and it would have meant a lawsuit for MMORPG.com if they didn't remove it, which BTW is called CENSORSHIP. I don't know about you but I believe people like the forum trolls here and yourself have the right to say any ignorant thing that they want to.
The internet is a very different place where people in the position of development are expected to be flamed, trolled, lied about and the like while simply bowing and saying thank you, otherwise, they are branded as bad business men, arrogant and any other derogatory title. I simply don't agree with this and I can't pretend to for the sake of my "reputation".
It takes absolutely no effort to put on the "professional face" and say "I appreciate your opinion X and we will continualy work on Greedmonger so that in the end it proves itself to be the game everyone expected and wanted."
or, just not say anything at all.
And as I've mentioned in another post, the best way to silence naysayers is to just "be great". By showing a professional face, by being timely with updates, by putting out a great product, you let your work speak for itself.
Again, I find myself in complete agreement with Sovrath.
Originally posted by FromHell The whole Greed Monger project reminds me a lot of the Camelot Unchained project. Projects with lots of talk and almost nothing to show. Not my cup of tea, tbh
Except mark jacobs has over 20 years experience in the gaming industry whereas this appleton guy is just chancing his arm. Keep hating though.
Guys, plain calling out fellow members of this community, even if they are the subject of the editorial, is not cool. What is fine is disagreeing or expressing opinions about details, but personally flaming others is against the rules here and will be removed. If you have an opinion on the situation or the editorial, go right ahead.
Your website called him out though and we are responding to your call out. Did you really think that this article wouldn't end up in a flame war?
I saw he has a NEW KICKSTARTER (wanting nearly$100,000 on this one if my memory is correct- If not I will edit this once I have time to look) EDIT: I misread, it said he has MADE $92.00 and I mistakenly thought it had said he was asking for $92,000 - Dont sue me bro....Goal is $1000 and artwork is well done IMHO /edit off :and is already threatening one commenter with (you guessed it) a lawsuit with his veiled threat sort of way.
[mod edit] the fallout over this will be EPIC unless he really does produce something playable- Which I doubt. he got 2-3 rimes the money he said he needed, changed everything around (including game engines) hasnt produced a playable Alpha and is already pimping a new kickstarter game- My spider sense is tingling.
Comments
First, let me say that I have zero interest in Greedmonger and have very serious doubts about Mr. Appleton's ability to make it happen--same way I feel about the majority of KS MMO projects. Having said that...
I had a front-row seat for some of the posts in the now-defunct Greedmonger forum here when a few weeks back I went there out of curiosity.
I saw some outrageous personal attacks against Appleton that seemed to linger in the forum for days without mod edits. This was in sharp contrast to the ever-vigilant moderation that I see in all forums when 2 or more regular posters get into a pissing match... not to mention the fact that personal attacks directed at developers and their integrity is commonplace in all forums here.
As far as I can tell personal attacks directed at developers that are not forum participants are OK. Those agains developers who participate in the forums a little less so. The only ones that seem to be an absolute no-no are the ones directed at other non-developer forum posters... curious.
Another odd thing about this site is the timing of creating a forum to discuss something that resembles an MMO (there are a lot of forums for RPGs with online compnents that are hard to describe as MMOs...but that's a different story for anoher day.) On the one hand we have MMOs that are developed for 5 or 6 years before the developers decide it's time to reveal it to the public--this is the typical case with mainstream AAA MMOs. But it seems like a forum can be created to discuss something that is just someone's dream and nothing else.
There are a few exceptions: Titan and EQ Next come to mind. But the track record of those two development teams are solid. There's no reason to doubt that they will get developed.
So we have some forums here with people discussing what exists and is nearly finished and other forums where people discuss what might exist in a few years if all the stars align properly.
A lot of the non-personal criticism I saw in the Greedmonger forum when I visited boiled down to" "You got nothing... show us." Well, duh. That is the nature of things that get announced when they go to KS with nothing more than some concept art, some ideas and, if we're lucky a very rough video.
Appleton's mistakes? He participated in the forum here. He fought back. He doesn't do internet very well. Otherwise, his KS pipedream is no more nor less solid than the vast majority of other projects with their own little forums here.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
Rule 1. with working with public: Put on the persona of charitable as a mask.
Concerning games and comments and drama: It's a level up from youtube!
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
There is NO miracle patch.
95% of what you see in beta won't change by launch.
Hope is not a stategy.
______________________________
"This kind of topic is like one of those little cartoon boxes held up by a stick on a string, with a piece of meat under it. In other words, bait."
What is funny is that this guy has threatened MULTIPLE people with lawsuits (go check out his kickstarters..) but as far as I can tell he is all talk. If he has any credibility he would have actually had to follow through on his threats. Thus, any damage to his credibility is self-inflicted....
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I wonder where he would get the money to hire a lawyer for a law suit? Would he use the Kickstarter money?
Personally, I'd be more inclined to give money to Melisa Joan Hart's Kickstarter to make a crappy movie for her.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/318676760/darcis-walk-of-shame?ref=live
http://jam.canoe.ca/Movies/2013/04/12/20734071-wenn-story.html
Greedmonger looks like its either going to be vaporware or just plain hot garbage. As for its creator, he is giving off a very strong internet tough guy/braggart vibe. Is saying he is invloved in MMA supposed to make us go "Oh, shit son! This guy sounds tough as f**k!"? What was his "involvement" in MMA? Did he manage the website for them? Hand out flyers? He should stop making thinly veiled threats to sue or get people fired as it just makes him look like a horrible person.
BTW, all of the above was just my opinion and thoughts. No need to call your lawyers, Mr.Appleton.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
apparently, there are lots of dummies in Hell.
"..........Lulz......try to IP ban me if you want, hasn't worked yet. I am still here. I have always been here.........."
Oh my. You've got one kickstarter backed and are supposedly working on it but haven't yet delivered what you promised... so hurry out and start another one hoping people will pay you to spend your time on some other project, too?
I'm sorry to say a blatant straight truth, but mr appleton is right. He did right to threaten a troll and if more people threaten (and execute their threats) trolls, we will have less trolls and a more positive community. No sense of responsibility is a very bad situation, and it needs to change. You throw around insults and unchecked information and ruin someone else's reputation online? Pay for it! That's good practice. Punishing trolls IS good practice.
Guys, we're not seeing a disabled person being threatened. Not a black person being threatened. Not a minority. We are seing an evil person being stopped from commiting more evil. Do you hate those who threat murderers, rapists, drug dealers? No, we love them, we pay them money (taxes) and we hope they threat them even more so they stop doing their evil ways!
Is it a problem that this game isn't liste on some website that is a pit of snakes really (I mean, open the topic that announces start of KS campaign for CU, first post in reply to "back this project now" - "NO", or open any thread about Mortal Online, etc).... Ehh, not so much. Again, if I'd be banned from a community of murderers, rapists and thieves, would I be missing that? No thank you. I never wanted to have anything to do with those people anyway. Mr appleton and his game was banned from MMORPG? The way community here is, that's good PR for mr appleton.
Bottom line, if his game kicks ass and works out, he won't care wether or not mmorpg hosts his game in its insanely big list that includes games that arent mmorpgs at all (like LoL?). If his game sucks balls, again, it wouldn't matter wether or not his game is listed on mmorpg. Probably would even be good since less people would badmouth his failure. Win-win.
PS: Trolls think they control the internet and have a right to troll. This has to stop. You have a right to troll - anyone has a right to punch you in that troll face of yours and break a few bones of yours. Then troll to your heart's content. Way to go, mr appleton.
I really don't care about Greed Monger and had never even heard of it before this whole soap opera started. I will say though that his posts and the responses to them were amazing entertainment. I have never seen someone in his postion dig so deep of a hole for himself and then when told he wasn't making the situation any better he just kept going. It was a train wreck of pure enjoyment for me.
I really never thought anyone could alienate their (future) player base any more than SOE had. I was wrong. This guy doesn't even have a game to screw up yet and people hate him. I hope this thing makes it to launch. The entertainment value on these forums alone would be incredible.
This guy is the poster child of what not to do if your developing a game.
Wait. You're equating trolls with rapists, murderers and drug dealers??? And that trolling is "evil"? Good lord.
Perspective. You have none.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
You attacked me personally, I´ll sue you!
Secrets of Dragon?s Spine Trailer.. !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwT9cFVQCMw
Best MMOs ever played: Ultima, EvE, SW Galaxies, Age of Conan, The Secret World
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2X_SbZCHpc&t=21s
.
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The Return of ELITE !
Couple of things here. 1. The internet is the last true bastion of freedom for whtat it's worth good or bad...so yeah, Trolls do have the right to Troll. 2. What Mr. Appleton did was called being unprofessional. He wasn't just baning troll's (which again he shouldn't) he was banning anyone who had the guts to say, hey your game has a few issues that need to be addressed. That my friend comes off like a spoiled child and I know what that sounds like, I have one. Bill and the gang here at MMORPG dropped him because he threatened to sue them if he didn't remove any negative comments about his game. Any negative comment. That means someone could have said the game's color pallette was too bland and it would have meant a lawsuit for MMORPG.com if they didn't remove it, which BTW is called CENSORSHIP. I don't know about you but I believe people like the forum trolls here and yourself have the right to say any ignorant thing that they want to.
Again, I find myself in complete agreement with Sovrath.
Except mark jacobs has over 20 years experience in the gaming industry whereas this appleton guy is just chancing his arm. Keep hating though.
Your website called him out though and we are responding to your call out. Did you really think that this article wouldn't end up in a flame war?
Is Appleton at it again?
I saw he has a NEW KICKSTARTER (wanting nearly$100,000 on this one if my memory is correct- If not I will edit this once I have time to look) EDIT: I misread, it said he has MADE $92.00 and I mistakenly thought it had said he was asking for $92,000 - Dont sue me bro....Goal is $1000 and artwork is well done IMHO /edit off :and is already threatening one commenter with (you guessed it) a lawsuit with his veiled threat sort of way.
[mod edit] the fallout over this will be EPIC unless he really does produce something playable- Which I doubt. he got 2-3 rimes the money he said he needed, changed everything around (including game engines) hasnt produced a playable Alpha and is already pimping a new kickstarter game- My spider sense is tingling.
[mod edit]