> "Vanguard was supposed to be an upgraded version of EQ"
[mod edit] Vanguard is not an "upgraded version of EQ". They are the same kind of game, but so is WoW, and there are just as many differences between Vanguard and EQ as are between Vanguard and WoW and EQ and WoW. WoW isnt an upgraded version of EQ, either.
[mod edit]
Trollish as this post is he is kind of right... I jumped onto vanguard for a bit last week to check it out, did a few quests and within the starter zone (not that isle thingy) I ran into 4-5 different people in the span of 1 hour doing quests (they were funnily enough my own level) so this game isn't dead, it isn't populated nearly enough I grant you that but it does seem to be gaining steam slowly, maybe given a little luck and time it'll blossom and SOE will notice and start investing into it more heavily again.
Theres nothing trolling about my posting, in fact I completely avoided the whole issue because the person I was answering to has clearly no idea about what they're talking and I'm not wasting my time trying to convince them otherwise.
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar Other than open dungeons what freedom does Vanguard have that WoW doesn't?
The class system, the quest system, the auxillary class systems, the crafting system, the sailing system, the diplomacy system, they're all a lot more open, and deeper, than WoW.
Ok, how are any of those systems more open and deeper, excepting the sailing and diplomacy of course.
Your still locked into classes, quests are the same IMO. Crafting... hmm it is more involved and yes deeper than wow, but how does that give you more freedom?
edit - likely I didn't get far enough to know anything about this, but what is the auxillary class system? is that an Alt. Advance like in EQ/2?
on 3rd thought with crafting of ships and houses I'll definately give you that one.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Hrr was my posting really that offensive ? Some mod edited it.
Dunno about "open". Whats supposed to be "open" there ? Vanguard is a classic MMO. That includes a tradtitional class system. There are some subclasses (for certain adventuring classes), but there is no alternative advancement or how it is called. They once thought about it, but apparently they just lack the developer power to implement it.
Dont know how the game really compares in gameplay to WoW. After all, I avoided WoW for its graphic looks. So all I know is bits and pieces and hearsay.
I met a lot of people ingame that told me Vanguard dungeons and raids are awesome, compared to other games.
I know also a lot of people who stated WoW is too trivial because it can be scripted. I.e. you can just keep mashing one and the same button (or get a keyboard that does said button mashing). I read an amusing story about one gamer who got a full raid force in WoW and successfully raided with that. Another funny YouTube was one gamer linking every button on his keyboard to one and the same macro, and then just rolling his face on the keyboard, winning second place in total dps.
Vanguard only has relatively limited scripting.
I can also say from what is published about WoW that the classes are simpler, i.e. have less abilities total. Personally I was bored out of my mind after three days of playing GW1 because there just wasnt much to think about what buttons to press; it was just 8 total and thats all. In Vanguard, I need months to get used to really playing a class. Theres just so much stuff to think about.
You will miss a lot of content in vanguard because of thin and spread out population. I play MMOS for group play, yes i like to solo but in vaguard it was just soloing all the way to level cap by missing loads of group content.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
Originally posted by Everket Okay? but that is just one quest, how can you say the whole game is a grind? And I'm pretty sure you don't have to do that quest. But maybe I'm misunderstanding your meaning.
are you bleeping stupid?? that was an example!
I thought it was a reasonable question. It seemed like you were trying to say the whole game is repetitive and grindy, when it's really only some of the higher level stuff and that stuff is optional.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
So I am in a time of life where I have more time than I want to have. This is good and bad, but one good thing is I can try games that I previously didn't.
Now enters the real problem, finding a game.
I've been looking forward to Archage and such, EQNext seems to look interesting.
I started with EQ1, played EQ2 for a long time.
I guess the point I am trying to get at, is Vanguard worth looking in to? I dont really know much about what seems to be a muddled history of the game. However, it has some features that I really like, Player Housing, large class options, crafting, etc.
Well, I will probably try it out anyway, any suggestions for a beginner? Or anyone want to play with? (PS I am pretty casual when it comes to gameplay)
Vanguard is an exceptionally deep game from the crafting system which is insanely brilliant to diplomacy and then you have your pve side of things..there is enough content in game for you to do 1 char and it would probably take you 18 months to do all the content,depending how much you play..the gfx are good for its age,the combat is well not brilliant but its ok.
there is tons of stuff to do.explore..neverending list of dungeons..their are raids.but my favourite was the crafting..its so deep.now saying that its not everyones cup of tea but it is f2p.so you have nothing to lose by giving it a shot.
also someone mentioned about a server being shut down.well most people never used that server..its litterally been empty for about 1 year.most transfered their toons to telon server.anyways give it a go..get in a good guild because for a lot of the game you will need groups.
[...] the combat is well not brilliant but its ok.
What the heck ? Vanguard has amazing combat. Better than any other game I've ever played.
Neither Baldurs Gate 1+2, Wizardry 8, Planescape: Torment Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic, Vampire: The Masquerade: Bloodlines (the combat system is trivialistic but felt a lot more interesting in actual gameplay), Neverwinter Nights, Neverwinter Nights 2 (two very different games from different companies, thus I wont just write 1+2), TES4 Morrowind, TES5 Oblivion, The Witcher (that one has a throughoutly disappointing combat system), Lineage 2, Diablo 2, certainly not Guild Wars (omg the combat there was so super boring), certainly not Dragon Age (hard to believe it was Bioware who came up with this awful rulesystem) nor any other game I've ever come across or read about offered such interactive combat with so many layers and so many things to consider.
In no other game I can play a class for months and suddenly find out another detail about it of how I can play it even more efficiently.
If you think its "just ok" then please point out what the frak would still be missing. And dont come up with "but it doesnt play like one of these wonderful twitch based shooter games" because yes, *this* is a *real* MMORPG.
Originally posted by Everket Okay? but that is just one quest, how can you say the whole game is a grind? And I'm pretty sure you don't have to do that quest. But maybe I'm misunderstanding your meaning.
are you bleeping stupid?? that was an example!
I thought it was a reasonable question. It seemed like you were trying to say the whole game is repetitive and grindy, when it's really only some of the higher level stuff and that stuff is optional.
If you want best equipment on all levels, yes there are definitely some grinds. Not "omg I want to get on a rampage this is so boring I'm doing this since weeks" grinds, but definitely "grr I will have to spend some hours on this" grinds and "well, I should do this repeateable quest again so I get the final reward at some point in the future" grinds.
For example, to get the Wardship armor, which is about level 35, you need to do the Vol Tuniel and Thelassen dungeons. In fact, you have to do them once, then get another quest and return for a second run. But doing dungeons, especially of a complex handmade design, doesnt really qualify as "grind" to me.
The grindiest I can think of right now is Xenn items. They give stuff like invisibility and levitation and waterbreathing, though, so, depending upon your class, they are just wonderful to have and huge rewards at the end of the grind.
Calling the whole game grindy though sounds really riddiculous to me.
First of all, even if you do all "grinds" in this game, it still feels perfectly grind free for somebody coming from Lineage 2. Now THAT was a game that was really grindy. There you could spend weeks on getting a single drop from one single mob, with just a bit of bad luck even months.
Second, there are tons of different stuff to do in Vanguard. In the adventuring sphere alone I think there has been thousands of quests in the game at release and they're still all there. Also, if you are bored with adventuring, you can do harvest or crafting or diplomacy or fishing. So, if you dont like grinds, well then dont do them. There is just TONS of other content available.
[...] the combat is well not brilliant but its ok.
What the heck ? Vanguard has amazing combat. Better than any other game I've ever played.
Neither Baldurs Gate 1+2, Wizardry 8, Planescape: Torment Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic, Vampire: The Masquerade: Bloodlines (the combat system is trivialistic but felt a lot more interesting in actual gameplay), Neverwinter Nights, Neverwinter Nights 2 (two very different games from different companies, thus I wont just write 1+2), TES4 Morrowind, TES5 Oblivion, The Witcher (that one has a throughoutly disappointing combat system), Lineage 2, Diablo 2, certainly not Guild Wars (omg the combat there was so super boring), certainly not Dragon Age (hard to believe it was Bioware who came up with this awful rulesystem) nor any other game I've ever come across or read about offered such interactive combat with so many layers and so many things to consider.
In no other game I can play a class for months and suddenly find out another detail about it of how I can play it even more efficiently.
If you think its "just ok" then please point out what the frak would still be missing. And dont come up with "but it doesnt play like one of these wonderful twitch based shooter games" because yes, *this* is a *real* MMORPG.
Looks like someone needs to play Temple of Elemental Evil
Comments
Trollish as this post is he is kind of right... I jumped onto vanguard for a bit last week to check it out, did a few quests and within the starter zone (not that isle thingy) I ran into 4-5 different people in the span of 1 hour doing quests (they were funnily enough my own level) so this game isn't dead, it isn't populated nearly enough I grant you that but it does seem to be gaining steam slowly, maybe given a little luck and time it'll blossom and SOE will notice and start investing into it more heavily again.
Ok, how are any of those systems more open and deeper, excepting the sailing and diplomacy of course.
Your still locked into classes, quests are the same IMO. Crafting... hmm it is more involved and yes deeper than wow, but how does that give you more freedom?
edit - likely I didn't get far enough to know anything about this, but what is the auxillary class system? is that an Alt. Advance like in EQ/2?
on 3rd thought with crafting of ships and houses I'll definately give you that one.
Hrr was my posting really that offensive ? Some mod edited it.
Dunno about "open". Whats supposed to be "open" there ? Vanguard is a classic MMO. That includes a tradtitional class system. There are some subclasses (for certain adventuring classes), but there is no alternative advancement or how it is called. They once thought about it, but apparently they just lack the developer power to implement it.
Dont know how the game really compares in gameplay to WoW. After all, I avoided WoW for its graphic looks. So all I know is bits and pieces and hearsay.
I met a lot of people ingame that told me Vanguard dungeons and raids are awesome, compared to other games.
I know also a lot of people who stated WoW is too trivial because it can be scripted. I.e. you can just keep mashing one and the same button (or get a keyboard that does said button mashing). I read an amusing story about one gamer who got a full raid force in WoW and successfully raided with that. Another funny YouTube was one gamer linking every button on his keyboard to one and the same macro, and then just rolling his face on the keyboard, winning second place in total dps.
Vanguard only has relatively limited scripting.
I can also say from what is published about WoW that the classes are simpler, i.e. have less abilities total. Personally I was bored out of my mind after three days of playing GW1 because there just wasnt much to think about what buttons to press; it was just 8 total and thats all. In Vanguard, I need months to get used to really playing a class. Theres just so much stuff to think about.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
I thought it was a reasonable question. It seemed like you were trying to say the whole game is repetitive and grindy, when it's really only some of the higher level stuff and that stuff is optional.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Vanguard is an exceptionally deep game from the crafting system which is insanely brilliant to diplomacy and then you have your pve side of things..there is enough content in game for you to do 1 char and it would probably take you 18 months to do all the content,depending how much you play..the gfx are good for its age,the combat is well not brilliant but its ok.
there is tons of stuff to do.explore..neverending list of dungeons..their are raids.but my favourite was the crafting..its so deep.now saying that its not everyones cup of tea but it is f2p.so you have nothing to lose by giving it a shot.
also someone mentioned about a server being shut down.well most people never used that server..its litterally been empty for about 1 year.most transfered their toons to telon server.anyways give it a go..get in a good guild because for a lot of the game you will need groups.
What the heck ? Vanguard has amazing combat. Better than any other game I've ever played.
Neither Baldurs Gate 1+2, Wizardry 8, Planescape: Torment Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic, Vampire: The Masquerade: Bloodlines (the combat system is trivialistic but felt a lot more interesting in actual gameplay), Neverwinter Nights, Neverwinter Nights 2 (two very different games from different companies, thus I wont just write 1+2), TES4 Morrowind, TES5 Oblivion, The Witcher (that one has a throughoutly disappointing combat system), Lineage 2, Diablo 2, certainly not Guild Wars (omg the combat there was so super boring), certainly not Dragon Age (hard to believe it was Bioware who came up with this awful rulesystem) nor any other game I've ever come across or read about offered such interactive combat with so many layers and so many things to consider.
In no other game I can play a class for months and suddenly find out another detail about it of how I can play it even more efficiently.
If you think its "just ok" then please point out what the frak would still be missing. And dont come up with "but it doesnt play like one of these wonderful twitch based shooter games" because yes, *this* is a *real* MMORPG.
If you want best equipment on all levels, yes there are definitely some grinds. Not "omg I want to get on a rampage this is so boring I'm doing this since weeks" grinds, but definitely "grr I will have to spend some hours on this" grinds and "well, I should do this repeateable quest again so I get the final reward at some point in the future" grinds.
For example, to get the Wardship armor, which is about level 35, you need to do the Vol Tuniel and Thelassen dungeons. In fact, you have to do them once, then get another quest and return for a second run. But doing dungeons, especially of a complex handmade design, doesnt really qualify as "grind" to me.
The grindiest I can think of right now is Xenn items. They give stuff like invisibility and levitation and waterbreathing, though, so, depending upon your class, they are just wonderful to have and huge rewards at the end of the grind.
Calling the whole game grindy though sounds really riddiculous to me.
First of all, even if you do all "grinds" in this game, it still feels perfectly grind free for somebody coming from Lineage 2. Now THAT was a game that was really grindy. There you could spend weeks on getting a single drop from one single mob, with just a bit of bad luck even months.
Second, there are tons of different stuff to do in Vanguard. In the adventuring sphere alone I think there has been thousands of quests in the game at release and they're still all there. Also, if you are bored with adventuring, you can do harvest or crafting or diplomacy or fishing. So, if you dont like grinds, well then dont do them. There is just TONS of other content available.
Looks like someone needs to play Temple of Elemental Evil