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My sig sums up this game if you think this is sandbox....
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And sadly there is not. You cannot build anything at all or place your house anywhere except where AV tells you that you can. They dictate it all and where.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
Are you just deliberately missing the point being made by now? Dancing around it?
You're splitting hairs, at the very least. Replace the term "better" with "more flexible" and you'd be more "on point". But more flexible does not automatically mean "better". And even then, it's dubious. A player may have changed career choices throughout their time playing. They may have wasted a lot of time training up skills they thought would be important, but ended up being useless to them. They may have tried out different playstyles 'til they found the one they liked. They may have tons of SP in ships/buildouts they don't even use anymore.
As has been explained, how long you've played Eve and how many SP you've accumulated only indicates how much flexibility you have in the game; how many ships you can fly, what kind of buildouts you can use, etc. More SP = More Flexibility. And "more flexible" is not synonymous with "better player". Your attempt to say "well your character is clearly better" is completely pointless. In the context of how Eve is setup and how it works, it's a non-argument.
There's only so far skill points will take you.
Let's say two players get into a fight.
One has been playing for 8 years and has (just an arbitrary number) 90 million SP.
One has been playing only 2 years and has only 20 million (again, arbitrary number).
Both have the same amount of points into the same exact ship, same techs and are using the same build-out. Let's say, it's a 100k SP buildout (agai, arbitrary number).
SP wise, those two players are exactly the same at that time, in those ships. That one was playing 6 years longer means nothing. It doesn't matter that the 8 year vet has 70 million more SP into their character, because at that point they're only making use of the 100k required to pilot and equip the ship and buildout they're using. The other 89,900,000 SP they have is doing absolutely nothing for them.
At that point, it comes down to who has better command of their ship and is a better tactician. If the 8 year vet hasn't had as much time or practice in their current buildout, but the 2 year player has had lots of training in it, then yes, it's quite possible the 2 year player can wipe the floor with the 8 year vet.
How long either player has been playing has absolutely nothing to do with it.
The problem people have with not understanding Eve is that they keep trying to think of it in terms of other MMOs that work on entirely linear progression... as in time = progression = power. Where a level 50 will always beat a level 10. It doesn't work that way in Eve. Not at all.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
No. Wrong.
A player should be able to out-wit and out-play another player in the specific builds and playstyles they have practiced and gained experience in.
That's like saying someone who's played a game for 8 years, but played only Warrior and Rogue classes should automatically be able to pick up a Sorcerer and be better than another player who's played only two years, but played nothing but Sorcerer the entire time. Because after all, they have 6 years more experience in the game!
Players gain experience and skill in what they are actively doing. You don't automatically become "better at everything" just because you've been around the game longer. You accrue skill points in a completely passive manner in Eve. You don't earn them by "doing", you earn them by "studying". It's the application of those SPs that counts.
Actually... Henry Rollins has a great quote that sums up the point perfectly: "Knowledge without milage is bullshit". That's the SP setup in Eve in relation to "player skill".
And of course, some players are just naturally better at certain playstyles than others, so that comes into play.
I understand what you're trying to say. What I'm trying to say is that your point is completely moot in Eve. Saying 'my character is better because I'm playing for 8 years and have 70 million more SP than you" means absolutely squat. It doesn't matter. What matters is how skillfully can you use those SPs against other players.
It's like saying someone's been doing art for 8 years, and has gathered all kinds of books on the subject and learned about a lot of different mediums and styles. Meanwhile, someone else has only been into art for 2 years and hasn't accumulated as much, but has focused on one or two specific styles their entire time.
By your logic, the person with 8 years should automatically be the better artist because they "know more".
Meanwhile, when looking at each person's work side-by-side, the two year artist's work - technique, composition, etc - makes the 8 year artist's work look amateur. Using your logic, you'd be saying "it doesn't matter that the 2 year artist demonstrates superior skill with their knowledge. The 8 year vet is still better because they know more".
You're taking a complete non-issue and attempting to build some substantial argument around it. In doing so, you are either being deliberately obtuse, or you're demonstrating a distinct lack of understanding of how Eve works.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
Context, sir. Context.
I'm using the analogy as a way to try and illustrate to you the flaw in your thinking as it applies to Eve.
And I already accounted for what you're saying in my last post, when I said "And of course, some players are just naturally better at certain playstyles than others, so that comes into play." Some people are just faster learners, or have a natural knack for picking up on things, even if they've never done them before. By the same token, there are people - who also play those games you mention - who excel at specific playstyles/characters, but are not nearly as good, or outright suck, at others.
Bringing it back to Eve - since that is what we're talking about here - in one case, the 2 year player is more skilled in a specific playstyle/buildout despite having fewer SPs than the 8 year vet. The 8 year vet is less skilled in that specific buildout/playstyle despite having 6 more years and 10s of millions of more SP.
So, once again, you're taking a complete non-point and attempting to build an entire argument around it.
It's obvious to me by now that you're determined to remain deliberately obtuse, and are going to keep throwing out these ill-informed arguments, trying to prove a point about a game you demonstrably do not understand.
At this point, I'm going to bow out and say "have fun with that", because at this point it can only go back and forth and ultimately get nowhere. You're determined to remain obstinate on what you've chosen to believe, and I have better things to do than to talk to a wall.
Why is this guy still posting and mods why do you allow his constant harassment?
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
Yeah... good call. You probably should practice.
No better teacher than experience, after all. In games, and in life.
There is no amount of practice that can make a blind person see.
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"Chemistry: 'We do stuff in lab that would be a felony in your garage.'"
The most awesomest after school special T-shirt:
Front: UNO Chemistry Club
Back: /\OH --> Bad Decisions
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
I think it helps me. If it's themepark, i pass, if it's sandbox I don't, and today's so called mmorpg's aren't mmorpgs at all. They're barely a chat room with kill mob grinds, and raid grinds where hardly anyone even speak to each other.
What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot
This game is 100% sandbox. You do what you want in an open world. You don't have to do the feats at all. Im having a blast just gathering, crafting and hunting players (Badly).
I think we're getting off the focus of the thread here with the drawn out EvE discussion.
The orginal point was no other game offers what DFUW does.
Another poster correctly said EvE does.
I then correctly pointed out not everyone enjoys space MMOs.
I also added that players may not like EvE's combat, perfectly valid. I also pointed out that DFUW's FPS combat isn't for everyone, perfectly valid too.
With the leveling progression in EvE there is a massive time sink, think a year plus before you can utilise some of the bigger ships to their fulliest potential.
Well Darkfall is pretty much like themepark games.
Its just designed in a way that masks it around a PvP>All concept.
There is no sand in Darkfall. No player made content. Players can own and control developer made towns. Thats the same as what WoW did in TBC for that town in Halaa, just instead of Faction vs Faction is Alliance vs Alliance to take control of it.
Same concept. Nothing you do in Darkfall is sandbox like. Skill System isnt a Sandbox thing. It can be in very themepark like games as well.
FFA with Full Looting is not a Sandbox thing. Any MMO with PvP can have that.
Darkfall is a Open World PvP Arena Themepark MMO. Thats what it is. Cant be disapointed in the game if you know what the game really is.
Yes I would like more sand in the game design, but its likely too far a long into development of DF2 and DF1 was destroyed in the making of DF2.
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
It's not a pure 100% sandbox
Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy
Personal opinion from someone that has been playing Darkfall since 1.0 and the F5 wars.
Darkfall to me is a PvP/PvE Arena world. Its not a "Sandbox" its a "Play-pen"
instead of "Do what you want cuz a Pirate is free" its "Do what you want, but only with the tools given to you"
Darkfall is:
Freedom of doing whatever you want < Doing whatever you want with what you have at your disposal
Yeah, it's no sandbox. Compared to for example Shroud of the Avatar it is not a sandbox. In SotA you can create your own guildtown that you place yourself and you can decorate it inside and outside just like you did in UO. SotA is a sandbox RPG and seems to allow a online felucca UO gamestyle for the ones wanting that. If you want to play only PvE then you play only PvE - a slider ingame give you those options, genius.
That will be my next game.
Doesnt make it any worse when you realize that the developer of it is the creator of the Ultima games and Ultima Online, Richard Garriott.
https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/
This is not minecraft.
With today's standards on fantasy mmorpgs, its impossible to achieve something like that while also having a huge, seamless, persistant and non-instanced world, with no limit on how many players can be in same area, with fast paced action combat, full loot, etc.
Why do you think there is not a single mmorpg out there like that and instead we are full of crappy wow clones like GW2, SWTOR, ESO...?
When ever and if ever, anyone manages to create an mmorpg that has all the above then ill probably be the first one to buy it, until then, Darkfall is by far the best game of this kind.
I am a vet MMORPG player and play MMORPG's since they have been invented. DF:UW shares very litle with a real sandbox game. Seamless world alone simply can't cut it.
DF original had a foundaton to become one but with DF:UW they decided to abandon the sandbox design paradigm entirely.
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
+1
Is DFUW a complete sandbox? No.
Does DFUW have fast paced twitch combat, deep and intriguing clan and alliance politics, large conquest battles, player driven crafting and economy, challenging PvE, full-loot and long term consequences, and a very diverse and engaging community? Yes.
That is what Darkfall is. If you don't like that then GO SOMEWHERE ELSE AND STFU. For all their blunders AV has given us a game that no other game is even close to. Could the game be "better" sure, but it is still the best thing out there.
(Uzik ibnYaraq in game. Always willing to help.)
http://www.youtube.com/user/UzikAlJhamin